[00:00]  * desrt is presently feeling borderline overdosed on coffee
[00:00] <desrt> wheeeee
[00:02] <RAOF> Huh.
[00:02] <RAOF> So, I know what the problem is.
[00:03] <RAOF> The problem is, I\ don't see how 0ubuntu3 worked :)
[00:29] <Sweetshark> anyone here able to tickle https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:3.5.0-1ubuntu3 builds out of depwait?
[00:29] <Sweetshark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lucene2/+bug/938708 <- the lucene dep should be there now.
[00:29] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 938708 in lucene2 "[MIR] lucene2" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[00:32] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, what has happened to my keyboard shortcuts??? :(
[00:32] <chrisccoulson> ctrl+alt+everything seems to be broken
[00:34] <chrisccoulson> oh, switching workspaces has been hardcoded to a new combination
[00:34] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, ??
[00:35] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, switching workspaces has been moved from ctrl+alt to super+shift
[00:35] <chrisccoulson> i could hit ctrl_alt nicely with my index finger + little finger
[00:35] <chrisccoulson> but the new combination is too close together for me to be able to do that comfortably
[00:35] <bryceh> yeah
[00:35] <chrisccoulson> that's going to take some serious readjustment :(
[00:36] <bryceh> bet that's not going to be a popular change
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> probably not
[00:37] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, you can still remap the key combo in settings though, right?
[00:37] <Sweetshark> yikes, my fluxbox trained brain will never adopt.
[00:37] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, not according to the unity changelog entry
[00:38] <chrisccoulson> "hardcode the new default value for switching between workspaces"
[00:38] <RAOF> Oooh, ow.
[00:38] <lifeless> !
[00:39] <dupondje> hardcoded things are always bad :)
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, oh, you can still change it
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> and i've just remapped it back again
[00:39] <chrisccoulson> phew :)
[00:39] <bryceh> hah
[00:49] <smspillaz> chrisccoulson: its not hardcoded
[00:49] <chrisccoulson> smspillaz, it seems that the changelog entry is confusing ;)
[00:49] <chrisccoulson> any idea why the bindings were changed?
[00:49] <smspillaz> chrisccoulson: the default value was just changed and we shipped a settings upgrade file to change the existing setting to super-shift
[00:50] <smspillaz> chrisccoulson: design
[00:50] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: isnt it 1am at your place? what are you doing here still? ;)
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> it's got to be the worst possible combination of modifiers. diagonally positioned and closer together :/
[00:50] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, yeah, it's nearly 1am here
[00:50] <thumper> ah... whut?
[00:51]  * thumper uses ctrl+alt lots for workspace shifting
[00:51] <lifeless> not anymore
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> thumper, ditto. but it's now super+shift
[00:51] <thumper> who thought that was a good idea?
[00:51] <chrisccoulson> i've no idea :/
[00:51] <thumper> what I heard was it would be additional
[00:52] <thumper> and advertised
[00:52] <thumper> but wouldn't stop the old one working
[00:58] <RAOF> Dear coffee.  Why aren't you here?
[01:00] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, oh, please don't talk about coffee. i really want some now, but putting a brew on at 1am probably wouldn't be the greatest idea for me ;)
[01:02] <Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: 8pm here but my thoughts exactly
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> what i need is beer to counter the effects of the caffeine
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> oh
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> i still have a bit of scotch left
[01:03] <chrisccoulson> that might work :)
[01:03] <RAOF> :)
[01:05] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: what kind of scotch?
[01:05] <RAOF> Aaah, espresso machine.  You are the finest of presents.
[01:07] <chrisccoulson> Sweetshark, https://shop.glenfiddich.com/products/Glenfiddich-Rich-Oak.html
[01:10] <Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: nice one!
[01:10]  * Sweetshark pours in a http://www.laphroaig.com/
[01:25] <strycore> hi
[01:25] <strycore> I see I've come to the right place
[01:25] <strycore> I was searching some info about the change of keyboard shortcut for desktop switching
[01:26] <strycore> Is there a thread in a mailing list or a bug in Launchpad explaing why it was changed ? (I couldn't find any)
[01:34] <bryceh> strycore, we're as mystified as you, but seems to be a Design team decision
[01:39] <strycore> weird... of course it can easily be changed back to the normal shortcuts, but if someone made that change, they must have had a reason to think it was better
[01:40] <jbicha> I'm guessing it's to use the Super key as the basis for more Unity shortcuts
[01:40] <jbicha> you could open a bug and hopefully get an explanation when Design closes the bug ;)
[01:44] <strycore> well, there is an actual bug to report, now I get a Keyboard Shortcuts help screen while I'm switching desktops, mixing the <super> long press with desktop switching doesn't work
[02:07] <strycore> bug reported, (#940007). I guess I'll go script the keybindings back to their old value, changing them back on every machine with ccsm would be so tedious.
[02:13] <bryceh> strycore, hey I'd be interested in that script
[02:31] <strycore> bryceh, there you go : https://github.com/strycore/scripts/blob/master/fix-workspace-switcher
[02:32] <bryceh> strycore, thanks!
[02:35] <desrt> RAOF: how goes?
[02:35] <RAOF> desrt: Sidetracked by mesa.
[02:36] <desrt> mesa is tricky like that
[02:36] <RAOF> desrt: I'm pretty sure I can ~1 line patch it to make it work.
[02:36] <desrt> RAOF: i've also been seeing weird issues lately with modifiers (particular alt) behaving badly
[02:36] <RAOF> Under shell?
[02:36] <desrt> i've seen both:
[02:37] <desrt>  - gnome-terminal stops processing alt (so alt+2, alt+3, etc in irssi stops working)
[02:37] <desrt>  - (and now) shell stops processing alt+ctrl+(up down) so that pressing these gives 'A' or 'B' in irssi
[02:37] <desrt> (ie: the vt100 escapes for the direction)
[02:38] <desrt> not sure if it's a server problem or something else
[02:38] <desrt> and it's been happening randomly for a while
[02:39] <desrt> hum.  odd.  restarting X entirely just failed to fix it.
[02:39]  * desrt tries a reboot...
[02:41] <desrt> huh.  that doesn't work either.  fascinating.
[02:44] <strycore> desrt, the keyboard shortcut have changed
[02:44] <desrt> oh.
[02:44] <desrt> so they have.
[02:45] <desrt> that's pretty random.
[02:45] <strycore> yes totally
[02:45] <desrt> well, the other half of the bug was still happening :)
[02:45] <desrt> (although not now)
[02:48] <RAOF> desrt: Again, this is in shell?
[02:48] <desrt> yes
[02:49] <desrt> and i'm no longer 100% sure that it doesn't go away by restarting shell
[02:49] <desrt> (for the other issue)
[02:49] <desrt> so it could very easily be a shell bug
[02:49] <RAOF> Yeah.  It's entirely within shell's capabilities to make that break.
[02:49] <jbicha> desrt: which shell version?
[02:50] <desrt> jbicha: whatever is in precise right now
[02:50] <desrt> 3.2.2?
[02:50] <desrt> RAOF: i don't really understand how
[02:50] <desrt> RAOF: although i can imagine it's possible...
[02:50] <desrt> if i press alt+2 then i can understand the shell could possibly intercept that
[02:50] <desrt> but i'd assume it's an all-or-none sort of deal
[02:51] <desrt> and to have it modify it to be just-plain-old-2 and deliver that to the app seems odd
[02:51] <desrt> in any case, i haven't seen it in a week or so so it might be fixed
[02:51] <desrt> i'll do some deeper digging if i see it pop up again
[03:03] <RAOF> desrt: It could grab on alt, get the event, decide that it didn't really need it and put the event back in the queue, but accidentally drop the modifier.
[03:04] <RAOF> I don't know if it actually *does* that, but it could.
[03:06] <micahg> RAOF: can you look at or get someone to look at Bug #770283
[03:06] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 770283 in fglrx-installer "[fglrx]title bar does not update on non-maximized windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770283
[03:06] <micahg> request from #ubuntu+1
[03:10] <RAOF> Oh, man.
[03:10] <RAOF> That's terrible.
[03:12] <desrt> RAOF: afaik, passive grabs are an accept-or-reject affair
[03:12] <desrt> there is no 'putting back in the queue'
[03:13] <RAOF> This is possible; I've not got my head around the full panoply of passive/active grab behaviours, and how they're usedb.
[03:21] <TheMuso> grrr stupid shortcut changes. :S
[03:21] <desrt> TheMuso: srsly.
[03:21] <lifeless> RAOF: oh great, so you can fix my touchpad getting stuck with mouse1 down until I shif the app to a different workspace and dance in a circle?
[03:21] <desrt> does anyone know who/why?
[03:22] <RAOF> lifeless: That's probably the drag-lock behaviour :).  Shout at cnd; he's after feedback on it :)
[03:22] <TheMuso> c
[03:23] <strycore> wait , that a "behavior" and not a bug ?
[03:23] <TheMuso> Sooooo. Every time I use *cough* super + shift plus arrows to change workspace, the dash comes up... :S
[03:23] <RAOF> micahg: That looks like Sam's already looked at it and come to the same conclusion that I did.  I guess that needs to be forwarded to fglrx.
[03:24] <strycore> i thought my touchpad was going crazy or something
[03:24] <lifeless> strycore: ++
[03:24] <lifeless> AFAICT something is batshit insane
[03:24] <lifeless> can't break out of it in any reasonable fashion
[03:25] <RAOF> lifeless: You should be able to break out of it by tapping on the touchpad in the same app that you started in.
[03:25] <lifeless> RAOF: nup
[03:25] <micahg> RAOF: so, can you do that or is that someone else
[03:25] <RAOF> I think this has actually been turned off in today's synaptics upload, too, so a simple update + server restart might fix it for you :)
[03:25] <TheMuso> c
[03:25] <lifeless> RAOF: I find that the only reliable way is ctrl-alt-shift right, ctrl-alt left, alt-tab, click
[03:25] <RAOF> micahg: I'll forward it to Alberto.
[03:25] <TheMuso> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[03:27] <jbicha> lifeless: my touchpad problem gets reset magically if I don't touch it for like 5 seconds
[03:27] <lifeless> jbicha: I'll try that next time
[03:27] <strycore> yes, it seems to have been removed, I can't do it anymore (which is a good thing)
[03:31] <lifeless> jbicha: that worked!
[03:31] <lifeless> so, \o/
[03:31] <lifeless> (guess you hadn't ever waited -at all- while trying to fix it
[03:31] <TheMuso> c
[03:31] <lifeless> TheMuso: 'grrrrrrr' ?
[03:32] <TheMuso> lifeless: The hud is still getting in my way, as well as the change of the workspace switcher keyboard shortcuts.
[03:32] <TheMuso> Looks like I have to take time out and find the settings to restore sanity.
[03:32] <lifeless> TheMuso: man icepick? :)
[03:33] <TheMuso> heh
[03:34] <jbicha> lifeless: it is a bit bizarre for a workaround
[05:56] <pitti> Good morning
[06:49] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey, how much dbus/gdbus do you know?  Can you think of anything that may cause https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670722?
[06:49] <ubot2`> Gnome bug 670722 in gdbus "Using gdbus to make a call, then forking and doing the same in the child process fails" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[06:50] <pitti> robert_ancell: not at that level, I'm afraid :/
[06:51] <pitti> robert_ancell: does fork() close the FDs properly? perhaps the dbus one stays open or so}
[06:51] <robert_ancell> pitti, yeah, I'm thinking similar things, but I don't know a good way to debug it
[06:52] <pitti> robert_ancell: does it work with clone() if you don't inherit FDs?
[06:52] <pitti> robert_ancell: you could run it through strace -fvvs1024 -o /tmp/trace to find out whether the child process does a similar action to the bus than the parent one
[06:53] <pitti> robert_ancell: so it works if you swap the make_call() and fork()?
[06:53] <robert_ancell> pitti, i.e. do the make_call after the fork?  yes
[06:53] <pitti> if so, then concurrency doesn't sound like the problem, but some global state that the gdbus call sets up
[06:53] <robert_ancell> yes, I also tried making the dbus connection using the bus address separately as it is a singleton, but no luck there
[06:54] <robert_ancell> I'll try clone
[06:56] <broder> robert_ancell: what happens if you g_dbus_connection_close_sync in the child, then do g_bus_get_sync?
[06:56] <broder> (and does that screw up the parent's connection?)
[06:57] <robert_ancell> broder, do a get/close/get?
[06:57] <broder> robert_ancell: yeah
[06:59] <robert_ancell> broder, yeah, that closes it for the parent
[06:59] <didrocks> good morning
[07:00] <robert_ancell> must be shared
[07:00] <RAOF> Hey didrocks!
[07:00] <didrocks> RAOF: how are you? :)
[07:00] <RAOF> I'm wiring up the autofoo for some tests.
[07:01] <RAOF> You can therefore probably guess ;)
[07:02] <didrocks> RAOF: ahah, come on, it's Friday evening for you, you don't have to make such pain to yourself :)
[07:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: FYI, moving https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-thunderbird-enhancements to Q
[07:04] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:05] <pitti> didrocks: I moved https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-one-conf to Q; it's not realistic any more for b1 IMHO
[07:05]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[07:05] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[07:05] <didrocks> pitti: hum, I already postponed what I can postpone, IIRC, there was just a "discuss with…" remaining for me, isn't it?
[07:06] <pitti> didrocks: and lots of blocked items, too
[07:06] <didrocks> pitti: right, on other teams :/
[07:06] <pitti> didrocks: well, it doesn't mean that you are forbidden to discuss that point now :)
[07:06] <didrocks> pitti: I'm thinking that as OneConf doesn't really get any traction, I'll maybe propose removing it next cycle
[07:06] <pitti> but I'll stop harassing you about the BP's progress, and we can better focus on the stuff that we need to get done for precise
[07:06] <didrocks> yeah :)
[07:07] <pitti> didrocks, RAOF: "drop check-gl-texture-size from gnome-session startup and add the new compiz plugin for it on upgrade"
[07:07] <pitti> do we still have this? ISTR that a newer compiz should make this unnecessary?
[07:08] <didrocks> pitti: so, it's complicated and I need dx and RAOF discussing together I guess
[07:08] <didrocks> pitti: some part of dx tells "it just need a new plugin to activate on upgrade"
[07:08] <didrocks> other part is telling "that won't fix anything"
[07:08] <RAOF> That part of DX is lying.
[07:08] <didrocks> so I need to put them in a room, and discussing :)
[07:08] <didrocks> RAOF: which one? ;)
[07:09] <RAOF> The "just enable copy_to_texture" side.
[07:09] <didrocks> ah, so yeah, the 1st one :)
[07:09] <RAOF> Because Unity is all about FBOs, and they're not covered by copy to texture.
[07:09] <didrocks> that's why, I need to have a clear answer, I dont want to enable a new plugin for anything  :p
[07:09] <didrocks> nothing*
[07:09] <RAOF> So *compiz* will work if we enable copy to texture, but *unity* won't.
[07:09] <pitti> well, it seems unity boot speed is a lost cause anyway
[07:09] <RAOF> Also known as: not very useful for us!
[07:10] <didrocks> pitti: I'm trying to get some data, should have them next week
[07:10] <pitti> cheers
[07:10] <didrocks> pitti: I wanted for the new compiz to land
[07:10] <didrocks> waited*
[07:10] <didrocks> RAOF: agreed
[07:10] <pitti> RAOF: libraw/dcraw conversion to lcms2, is that still realistic? (bug 885324)
[07:10] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 885324 in libkdcraw "Completely replace lcms1 by lcms2 in Ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885324
[07:11] <didrocks> RAOF: so, we need, you, jay, sam and david discussing, do you want a meeting?
[07:11] <didrocks> RAOF: or I can set up a mail thread
[07:11] <pitti> RAOF: err, libraw is done, I mean dcraw
[07:11] <pitti> RAOF: ... which is in universe and thus not very interesting, nevermind
[07:12] <didrocks> pitti: just to sum up, basically, as the new plugin won't fix anything, we will still need the check-gl-texture-size script
[07:12] <pitti> didrocks: ok; so I guess this should be BLOCKED?
[07:12] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, that would make sense
[07:13] <didrocks> RAOF: oh, thinking about it, check-gl-texture-size can be run as part of the nux checker? (and thus, be run in lightdm if no autologin)
[07:13] <didrocks> to fallback to unity-2d
[07:15] <RAOF> didrocks: No, that doesn't work, because lightdm is not necessarily running at the same resolution as the user's session.
[07:16] <RAOF> Indeed, in the cases where check-gl-texture-size applies, it almost certainly *isn't* running at the same resolution, because we default to clone for lightdm.
[07:17] <didrocks> RAOF: you're right, ok, we can't win some time here :(
[07:24] <pitti> Sweetshark: I sorted out most of the new LibO promotions this morning, but some libs need work
[07:24] <pitti> Sweetshark: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg is a rather interesting graph to look at right now :)
[07:24] <pitti> Sweetshark: can you work on libexttextcat (drop automake1.7) and libloader (drop the recommends) today?
[07:25] <pitti> Sweetshark: libjcommon-java is in main now, it's just due to a germinate problem that it's still shown there, so nevermind that one
[07:39] <didrocks> waow, not so much cry on the keybings change for switching ws on bug reports, good surprise :)
[07:40] <rickspencer3> hey pitti looks like the armhf archive is getting a bit cleaned up, nice!
[07:41] <pitti> Sweetshark: oh, and we need a libapache-poi-java MIR
[07:42] <pitti> rickspencer3: heh, indeed! from 801 yesterday to about 10 today is much progress :)
[08:21] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[08:23] <pitti> hello tkamppeter
[08:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, you have answered to some cups-update-error bugs ands CUPS crashed. It is due to bug 911436.
[08:25] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911436
[08:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: oh, I see; thanks! can you please duplicate it then?
[08:26] <tkamppeter> pitti, most of these duplicates are CUPS crashers.
[08:29] <tkamppeter> pitti, will do. I hope that this bug will get fixed in Precise. I get around 5 new bug reports a day due to this bug.
[08:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, there seems also to be a problem with Apport. If the maintainer scripts of a package cause something to crash, there is only a package bug report, no crash bug report with the backtrace.
[08:30] <pitti> tkamppeter: I think there's _also_ a crash report
[08:31] <tkamppeter> pitti, then users see only the package failure and ignore the crash report.
[08:31] <pitti> tkamppeter: no, but due to our client-side duplicate detection they won't be reported again
[08:31] <tkamppeter> pitti, I get only the package failure bug reports.
[08:33] <tkamppeter> pitti, so the crash reports are caught by bug 911436? This bug has 156 me-too's. Are they generated by tghe crash reports it caught?
[08:33] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911436
[08:35] <pitti> tkamppeter: ideally they'd be caught client-side, but some duplicates still get through
[08:38] <Sweetshark> moin!
[08:38] <pitti> moin Sweetshark!
[08:39] <tkamppeter> pitti, only these package bugs do not get caught. Is there no automatic duplicate detection for package bugs?
[08:40] <pitti> tkamppeter: no, unfortunately not; it's not that easy to automatically pick up the real error from the apt output
[08:40] <pitti> e. g. bluez-cups failed, but that was due to cups, and that was due to the crash
[08:40] <micahg> if there is a pattern, you can write a bug pattern for it
[08:40] <pitti> we have a lot of causes like that; it usually needs some human brain to untangle
[08:42] <pitti> Sweetshark: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg is updated now, but for some reason it's still missing the libapache-poi-java package
[08:42] <pitti> perhaps it gets confused due to having such a large graph
[08:43] <pitti> Sweetshark: so I'd suggest to fix libloader first to build without all the maven/universe stuff, then it should clear up quite a bit
[08:43]  * Sweetshark gets lots in the forest.
[08:44] <pitti> Sweetshark: just look at libloader and libreoffice
[08:44] <pitti> Sweetshark: probably best if you download the source, and run check-mir; it'll tell you the missing b-deps
[08:47] <tkamppeter> pitti, so make them fixing bug 911436.
[08:47] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911436
[08:55] <rickspencer3> dang, my workspace switching keybinding are gone?
[08:55] <didrocks> rickspencer3: it's now Super + Shift + arrows
[08:55] <pitti> hah!
[08:56] <pitti> didrocks: you knew this was coming :)
[08:56] <rickspencer3> ok, so that seems unnecessary
[08:56] <rickspencer3> whatever
[08:56] <didrocks> pitti: oh yeah, I think the whole day will be to answer people not reading my detailed changlog :)
[08:56] <didrocks> changelog*
[08:56] <rickspencer3> didrocks, well, in my defense, it seems like a bug
[08:56] <pitti> didrocks: better keep the link ready for constant pasting :)
[08:56] <rickspencer3> hehe
[08:57] <didrocks> rickspencer3: press SUPER and keep it pressed, it should tell you the shortcuts :)
[08:57] <rickspencer3> I'm not going to ask what inspired such an improvement
[08:57] <didrocks> and https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1jqeKtIJwqLtl58Wk_fqjr9Rrgxn9zsouCYOo-cZsLSE/edit
[08:57] <pitti> also, super+shift+something else requires higher piano skills in your hands on my keyboard
[08:57] <rickspencer3> didrocks, well, I am on a netbook
[08:57] <didrocks> rickspencer3: ahah, yeah, with the design decision to not show it on netbook :)
[08:58] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's been 3 days here and I'm still not get used to it
[08:58] <didrocks> pitti: and I play church organ for 10 years, so I guess my fingers are agile :)
[08:58] <didrocks> had played*
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> good morning desktop team
[09:01] <didrocks> pitti: on the bright side, I find that super + arrows to maximize/restore/half maximized left or right is nice
[09:02] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[09:02] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks!
[09:02] <chrisccoulson> yay, https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/62c8bf0d48bb \o/
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> nice little power saving in thunderbird
[09:03] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: great! :)
[09:03] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, are you going to remove indexing by default on emails?
[09:03] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: it made my life way better
[09:03] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:03] <didrocks> on both netbook and laptop
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, that's a fairly core feature of thunderbird. how come?
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> things like conversations depend on that ;)
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti
[09:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: argh :p
[09:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, that would be nice if it doesn't make my laptop dying then ;)
[09:09] <Sweetshark> didrocks: hey, wheres my workspace switch?
[09:09] <Sweetshark> didrocks: j/k
[09:10]  * didrocks starts making a weechat keybinding for a generic answer :p
[09:11] <didrocks> hey Sweetshark, how are you?
[09:12] <Sweetshark> hmmm, interesting the UDS sponsoring page seems to be deadset on DDoSing itself on openid-login.
[09:13] <Sweetshark> didrocks: mostly fine, a bit scared of the MIR fallout.
[09:13] <didrocks> fallout?
[09:13] <didrocks> Sweetshark: confirming here
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, do you know why the switch-workspace shortcuts were changed btw?
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> i had to change them back last night ;)
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> oh, i see you've already discussed that this morning
[09:19] <didrocks> :-)
[09:19] <didrocks> :-)
[09:19] <didrocks> :-)
[09:19] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:20]  * didrocks will take some caffein free tea, will be a longgggggggggg day :)
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, that's probably my most used keybinding, and super+shift are too close together for me to use comfortably
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> in addition to shift not being on the bottom edge of the keyboard.......
[09:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: it's the last day I try to get accustomed to it, if after 3 days, I can't, I'll as well change in g-c-c (that perfectly work for all keybindings now \o/)
[09:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: the design idea is to use "Super" as a pivot between Shift and Alt
[09:21] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't buy it…
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, i changed it back after 30 minutes
[09:21] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, seems I like pain :)
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't buy it either. i think that shift + super is probably the worse possible modifier combination
[09:21] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if that's true on all layouts
[09:22] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think the layout is mostly the same for those keys independent of the keyboard
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> ctrl+shift would even have been better. at least those are on the same edge :)
[09:22] <pitti> for me ctrl+alt are next to each other; super and shift are both far away from ctrl/alt
[09:22] <pitti> but I realize I'm a special case here
[09:22] <pitti> but I still question the value of breaking keybindings which went into people's muscle memory for years
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, super+shift are diagonal to each other here, and spaced too close for me to hit comfortably
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> perhaps that is just a muscle memory issue though
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> but not being on the same edge kinda sucks
[09:24] <pitti> in the end I really want vim keys, I guess
[09:24] <pitti> "g4" to go to desktop #4, or "gk" to go up
[09:25] <pitti> there will always be people for which three-key chords are uncomfortable or impossible to use
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i guess so
[09:26] <pitti> and unfortunately the ws switcher in the launcher is rather useless
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it is. which is why this combination is probably the one i use the most :)
[09:26] <pitti> it should just switch desktops when you click on the one you want, not just zoom out
[09:28] <didrocks> pitti: and it's work in progress, soon, it will be 4 clicks to switch between ws
[09:28] <pitti> didrocks: you are kidding, right?
[09:28] <didrocks> (it's the initial plan from the beginning, just never was implemented)
[09:28] <didrocks> pitti: oh, I'm not
[09:29] <pitti> so after adding useless stuff to the launcher, breaking FFM, breaking the launcher's hiding behaviour, breaking people's muscle memory and already breaking WS switching with the mouse enough this will be the next big thigng?
[09:29] <pitti> Design team, pretty please stop the madness!
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> +1000 :-)
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, even with the WS switcher today, it is 3 clicks to change workspaces. how do they plan to add another click in there?
[09:31] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: the first view will be a zoom out of the current ws with all the windows on it exposed
[09:31] <pitti> plus a two second pause for the launcher to reveal, plus moving your mouse to the other screen end to select the area
[09:31] <didrocks> then, you click behind to have the actual view
[09:31] <didrocks> current*
[09:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson, didrocks: also, I have to double-click to select the ws; single-click does nothing but flash a bit
[09:32] <didrocks> pitti: you mean, in ws view mode?
[09:32] <pitti> yes
[09:32] <didrocks> pitti: that only "select" the ws
[09:32] <didrocks> which is useless
[09:32] <didrocks> but wanted for now
[09:32] <pitti> well, it's already useless, it doesn't matter
[09:33] <pitti> it should just switch right when I click in the launcher
[09:33] <pitti> as GNOME and every other desktop does
[09:33] <didrocks> pitti: I can't say anything else that it was discussed for hours?
[09:33] <pitti> I have the feeling they are trying really hard to make people stop using multiple ws because they hate it
[09:33] <pitti> didrocks: I'd rant to JohnLea, but he's not online
[09:33]  * pitti hugs didrocks, sorry
[09:34]  * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks too
[09:34]  * didrocks hugs pitti and chrisccoulson too :)
[09:34] <didrocks> pitti: on ws, let me show you a bug, one sec
[09:35] <didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/868423
[09:35] <didrocks> pitti: ^
[09:35] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 868423 in ayatana-design "Launcher - Workspace switcher should not be in the Launcher by default" [Critical,Fix committed]
[09:35]  * pitti sighs
[09:35] <didrocks> see the comments, I try to push that back hard
[09:36] <seb128> hey
[09:37] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va? :)
[09:37] <seb128> sorry Im late today
[09:38] <seb128> didrocks, lut ca va
[09:38] <seb128> with an english keyboard layout
[09:38] <seb128> trying to figure why
[09:38] <didrocks> just to be clear: IT'S NOT RELATED TO NEW COMPIZ KEYBINDINGS /!\
[09:38] <didrocks> :)
[09:39] <seb128> wtf? well setxkbmap fixed it, the indicator wouldn't work
[09:39] <seb128> didrocks, your new keybinding as well, wtf
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:39] <seb128> the "go to ws <n>" I set are not working today
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: :p
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> we've just been talking about those ;)
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: hum?
[09:39] <seb128> those are not in the default set and should be let alone
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: that shouldn't have set
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: I didn't change any of them, you didn't --reset?
[09:40] <seb128> I might have --reset one day since I've my account
[09:40] <seb128> but not today
[09:40] <seb128> they are still listed in g-c-c they just don't work
[09:41] <pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/868423/comments/13
[09:41] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 868423 in ayatana-design "Launcher - Workspace switcher should not be in the Launcher by default" [Critical,Fix committed]
[09:41] <didrocks> seb128: on the machine I tried for the upgrade, they are still here and working
[09:41] <pitti> hey seb128
[09:41] <didrocks> seb128: what keybinding are you using?
[09:41] <seb128> didrocks, alt-& alt-é alt-"
[09:41] <seb128> didrocks, i.e alt and the number on the french keyboard
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, hey pitti
[09:42] <seb128> wtf
[09:42] <didrocks> seb128: working here
[09:42] <didrocks> alt-& alt-é alt-"
[09:42] <seb128> if I press alt in the keybinding editor it sends me to the next workspace
[09:42] <didrocks> seb128: can't it be related to your keyboard issue?
[09:42] <seb128> like I edit and want to type alt-& when I press alt I'm changed ws
[09:43] <seb128> didrocks, I fixed my keymap, could be, but I restarted my session like 5 times to make sure I didn't hit a race or anything before starting IRC because those were not working
[09:43] <seb128> well if that's only me don't bother for now, I will figure it out
[09:43] <pitti> didrocks: how much effort would it be to distro-patch the ws switcher keybindings back to ctrl+alt?
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: hum, weird, you should have another keybinding conflict maybe?
[09:44] <seb128> I'm puzzled that pressing alt when in edit mode send me to ws2 though
[09:44] <didrocks> pitti: well, not a lot, updating metacity and compiz, uploading a new unity but I would rather that we discuss with design first
[09:44] <pitti> didrocks: just OOI; it's not just a schema change in metacity?
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, didn't see any other report about it until now
[09:44] <seb128> but the edit is still active since if I keep alt and press & it displays me a warning that the keybinding is already assigned to go to ws1
[09:45] <didrocks> pitti: no, we need to change that in metacity and compiz, otherwise, compiz is puzzled, can't match the right keys
[09:45] <didrocks> pitti: and unity has some hardcoded values…
[09:45] <pitti> didrocks: so if I change them in g-c-c, it writes the values to metacity's AND unity's settings?
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: metacity and compiz, yeah
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: but if you press super
[09:46] <didrocks> you will still see "Super + Shift + arrows"
[09:46] <didrocks> because it's hardcoded
[09:46]  * didrocks opened a bug about it
[09:46] <didrocks> seb128: tried on my second machine I did the update, don't have the issue as well :/
[09:47] <didrocks> pitti: I would say, we can keep it for beta1, ask people to comment on a bug report about this issue
[09:47] <didrocks> pitti: and see how much feedback we get
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, it's the most bizarre thing ever, this alt in the keybinding editor changing ws
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: what's the issue with ctrl-alt? what does ctrl-alt do?
[09:48] <didrocks> seb128: we are discussing about the keybinding switching ws change
[09:48] <didrocks> so it's rather "what it doesn't do anymore" :)
[09:48] <pitti> seb128: ctrl+alt+cursor I mean
[09:48] <pitti> seb128: instead of pointlessly breaking years old muscle memory for everyoen
[09:49] <seb128> you want to revert it? why?
[09:49] <Sweetshark> rickspencer3: please, please do! ;P
[09:49] <pitti> didrocks: yes, agreed
[09:49] <pitti> seb128: you seriously like this?
[09:49] <Sweetshark> rickspencer3: ups. I was way back in the backlog.
[09:49] <seb128> pitti, I don't care much, I don't agree on "we can't change behaviour or default because of muscle memory from old geek users"
[09:49] <seb128> I don't like that configs change on upgrade though
[09:50] <seb128> pitti, it's only a config, it's easy to tweak
[09:50] <pitti> keybindings are not geek
[09:50] <seb128> it's like the default launcher hidding or not
[09:50] <pitti> seb128: there is no other way to change keybindings
[09:50] <pitti> at least no sensible one
[09:50] <pitti> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/868423/comments/13  IMNSHO
[09:50] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 868423 in ayatana-design "Launcher - Workspace switcher should not be in the Launcher by default" [Critical,Fix committed]
[09:50] <seb128> pitti, well I've just no strong opinion, I think it's reasonable to be able to do changes like that if we think the new default are better
[09:51] <seb128> it's not like it was hard to put it back to the old values
[09:51] <seb128> we somewhat have too much resistance to change imho (which is normal, not discussing that)
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, the issue is that the new values aren't really any better, at least not on my keyboard :(
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> ctrl+alt are on the same edge and spaced a sensible distance apart
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> super+shift are diagonal to each other, too close together and not on the same edge
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> it's more difficult to hit them ;)
[09:52] <seb128> on the other side I didn't understand the point of that specific change
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, agreed on that
[09:52] <seb128> but cf the discussion about the launcher being hidden or not the other day
[09:53] <seb128> I think we are quite resistant to any behaviour or default change ;-)
[09:53] <seb128> I tend to agree that the keybinding change is stupid though
[09:53] <seb128> I though they wanted to do super-arrows
[09:53] <seb128> i.e without shift
[09:53] <didrocks> no super + arrows are used to maximize/restore/semi maximize left or right
[09:56] <rickspencer3> Sweetshark, pitti, seb128 that email from nick about adding application tests was interesting
[09:56] <seb128> didrocks, ok, I got my keys working back, unity was in a f*** state
[09:56]  * rickspencer3 tries to change subject
[09:56] <seb128> didrocks, alt-f2 was not working either, it was opening and closing the dash
[09:56] <seb128> unity --reset fixed it all
[09:56] <didrocks> seb128: weird weird weird
[09:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, where is that email?
[09:56] <didrocks> seb128: you probably got some conflict on upgrading yeah
[09:57] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh, desktop list, reading
[09:57] <seb128> rickspencer3, sorry I was late today and then fighting compiz :p
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti, i didn't get around to uploading tbird without the hyphenation patterns last night, as i hit an upgrade bug with the new version (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=730072) :(
[09:57] <ubot2`> Mozilla bug 730072 in Toolbars and Tabs "Quick Filter Toggle is gone (or doesn't move from tabbar toolbar) on upgrade to TB 11 with Enigmail and/or Lightning installed" [Normal,New: ]
[09:58] <seb128> rickspencer3, yeah, I'm unsure about that, I helped didrocks once to review a bit of the unity-checkbox testing and it rather convinced me it was a non working approch
[09:59] <rickspencer3> seb128, that's a bit harsh
[09:59] <rickspencer3> I think they got lots of good results
[09:59] <seb128> rickspencer3, sorry but I was about to say what, and that's my personal view, no offense to the work from others
[09:59] <rickspencer3> I think we should have a set of nice manual tests so people can ensure that applications are working properly
[10:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I discussed with skaet, pre-approved for landing this today still
[10:00] <seb128> I spent like 1.5 hour to read 15% of a 1500 lines of feedback were 90% was "noise", ie random comment or known issue, or same stuff said several times in different way
[10:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: as we really need the space
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
[10:00] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's very long and tedious work and I didn't feel the feedback I got from it was bringing infos over the bug reports we have
[10:01] <seb128> rickspencer3, and I find parsing coming bug email and looking at bug list easier than spending 5 hours reviewing the checkbox tests
[10:01] <rickspencer3> seb128, it shouldn't take 5 hours
[10:01] <seb128> rickspencer3, but maybe have 1 person having to read 1500 lines of checkbox tests is not the way to go
[10:01] <rickspencer3> that's not because of checkbox if it does
[10:01] <didrocks> that's true that reading comments is tedious
[10:01] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh, I didn't say it was "because of checkbox"
[10:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, I just find the launchpad bugs providing the infos I need in an easier to digest way
[10:03] <didrocks> ok, so it seems people are just complaining, requiring things, but don't offer any solution…
[10:03] <pitti> yay http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html
[10:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, but by all mean don't take it as an issue with checkbox, it's first not one, and second I say I'm not fit to deal with hours or comments reading, it just doesn't work with me
[10:03] <seb128> but I'm sure it's very useful for others
[10:05] <Sweetshark> rickspencer3: hmm, indeed. forwarding to libreoffice-qa!
[10:14] <Sweetshark> pitti: voikko is in the works in debian (so should only be a sync), report-builder is in ubuntu3.
[10:16] <Sweetshark> pitti: libexttextcat build fine with automake instead of automake1.7. Indeed that is how we build it inside of LibreOffice, Iguess.
[10:17] <pitti> Sweetshark: I uplaoded ubuntu3 yesterday, but it needs those package fixes
[10:17] <pitti> didrocks: hm, alt+f5 stopped working, was that changed as well?
[10:17] <pitti> (to un-maximize a window))
[10:17] <didrocks> pitti: for restoring?
[10:17] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's Super + Down
[10:17] <pitti> alt+f10 still works
[10:17] <pitti> oh c'mon
[10:17] <pitti> this is ridiculous
[10:18] <pitti> this is ridiculous
[10:18] <pitti> super+down for unmaximizing, alt+f10 for maximizing?
[10:18] <didrocks> pitti: alt + f10 shouldn't work as well
[10:18] <didrocks> pitti: but you probably change a keybinding here as well
[10:18] <pitti> well, alt+f10 is the default
[10:18] <pitti> or had been
[10:18] <didrocks> alt + f10 shows the first menu
[10:19]  * pitti restores
[10:19] <didrocks> and Super + up maximize
[10:21] <pitti> didrocks: hm, I checked guest session -- alt+f10 doesn't do anything, F10 still opens the menu
[10:21] <pitti> but if that change is made, I'll applaud
[10:21] <pitti> as F10 is used in quite a few programs
[10:21] <didrocks> pitti: oh sorry, I committed the alt + f10 change to unity trunk
[10:21] <didrocks> pitti: didn't backport it
[10:22] <pitti> didrocks: ah, ok; so not a bug there
[10:22] <pitti> didrocks: thanks for checking
[10:22]  * didrocks is starting to get lost with all those changes in different components :)
[10:22] <pitti> not only you, I tell ya
[10:30] <seb128> pitti, do you r-t this time? i.e can I ask you question about thing I want to get in beta or should I ask Riddell or #ubuntu-release rather?
[10:31] <pitti> seb128: approvals can be done by any RT member; Riddell is driving beta-1
[10:31] <seb128> pitti, I'm pondering trying to get a gtk2 without the resize grip in today (i.e turning the api to a nop)
[10:32] <seb128> it was an ubuntu patch from the start, gtk2 app writter didn't consider it since it was not in gtk2 and it breaks some stuff like libreoffice
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: sounds ok to me
[10:32] <seb128> design decided to drop those grips from our theme this cycle for gtk3 and asked that we drop them from gtk2 as well
[10:32] <seb128> pitti, ok, good, thanks
[10:32] <pitti> seb128: oh, no more grips in GTK3 apps either?
[10:32] <pitti> back to "find the one pixel to resize your window"?
[10:34] <didrocks> on unity-2d, I guess, unity-3d as compiz handling invisible border
[10:34] <didrocks> has*
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, compiz has those "invisble borders" as didrocks says
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, you can grab like on 5 pixels from the border
[10:35] <seb128> you don't need to aim on the line
[10:35] <pitti> but in unity-2d?
[10:35] <seb128> pitti, well sabdfl told me to drop those, I'm doing it
[10:35] <seb128> it's redudant in 3d
[10:35] <seb128> I guess 2d will have to get invisible borders or something as well
[10:35] <seb128> I guess the focus is 3d
[10:36] <seb128> pitti, in gtk3 they are set on or off by the theming
[10:36] <seb128> pitti, so it might be possible to hack the theme for 2d
[10:38] <seb128> pitti, I'm just glad we can get ride of i.e bug #749986
[10:38] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 749986 in gtk+2.0 "Resizing LO window from bottom right brings up pop-up and undesirable effects" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749986
[10:39] <pitti> *nod*
[10:39] <seb128> pitti, it's a most hated bugs, libreoffice does weird stuff for rendering and doesn't like the gtk2 grip patch at all
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: yes, I'm not too worried about the few gtk2 programs
[10:40] <pitti> more about unity-2d and most gtk3 programs
[10:41] <seb128> pitti, well, for gtk3 it's a theme thing, so let's deal with it when design comes with an uife for the theme update ;-)
[11:13] <Sweetshark> pitti: meh, the lucene stuff is ugly. It seems to me like LO only does a partial build of lucene (it run contrib/analyzers/build.xml, not the main one). In theory, one could do the same withour package, in practice, that would likely each and every client of it. not an option. MIRing all the other stuff too: possible, but doesnt get me excited exactly (java is a dep-nightmare, and I dont know what that would even pull in then). So, I am inc
[11:13] <Sweetshark> s/likely/likely break/
[11:13] <pitti> Sweetshark: no, MIRing all the maven stuff is a no-go
[11:14] <pitti> Sweetshark: your text was cut off after "So, I am inc"
[11:14] <pitti> .. lined to ...?
[11:14] <Sweetshark> inclinded to forget the lucene MIR and just use LibreOffices own partial copy.
[11:14] <pitti> sounds fine
[11:15] <pitti> Sweetshark: is libloader fixable, or should we revert to the internal copy for that, too?
[11:15] <pitti> the recommends can ceratinly be dropped to suggests, but the build-deps would be harder
[11:22] <Sweetshark> so I dont see we can easyly drop ehcache. but maybe we can get ehcache to not pull in maven.
[11:23]  * Sweetshark has a look further down the chain.
[11:24] <Sweetshark> meh. ehcache hasnt been in main since hardy. not looking good.
[11:24] <pitti> no, earlier versions didn't need it
[11:24] <pitti> ronoc: hey Conor, how are you?
[11:25] <pitti> ronoc: in the sound indicator I only have a non-spinning spinner between the fwd/rev buttons; clicking it brings RB to the foreground
[11:25] <pitti> ronoc: in the past I could use that button to pause/resume play
[11:25] <pitti> ronoc: is that by design or a bug?
[11:25] <Sweetshark> pitti: but without it, there is no reportbuilder. also not good.
[11:25] <pitti> ronoc: for bringing RB into the foreground I could click on the "rhythmbox" menu entry
[11:25] <ronoc> pitti, all good - have you rhythmbox plugins installed ?
[11:25] <pitti> ronoc: yes, I have
[11:26] <ronoc> pitti, i.e. is rhythmbox on dbus
[11:26] <ronoc> is the mpris interface up ?
[11:26] <pitti> oh, the plugin was disabled
[11:26] <ronoc> i noticed the same thing two days ago
[11:26] <ronoc> aha
[11:26] <ronoc> this is need by default otherwise the indicator cannot drive the player
[11:26] <pitti> ronoc: many thanks, that was it
[11:26] <ronoc> over dbus
[11:27] <ronoc> sweet
[11:27]  * Sweetshark wonders if it is an option to not build reportbuilder in main and do a build with it in a ppa. It would be a pragmatic solution to this mess.
[11:27] <Sweetshark> It still would mean, dropping reportbuilder from the libreoffice metapackage.
[11:39] <pitti> and fix the transitional openoffice.org-reportbuilder one
[11:39] <pitti> but yes, it's a possible fallback
[11:40]  * pitti lunch &
[12:07] <rye> can somebody check on their laptop - when decreasing brightness in "Brightness and Lock" control panel module, at 20% brightness is minimal and when going further down it is increasing instead
[12:07] <rye> can't take a video of that because the camera is too smart to compensate for brightness change :-/
[12:41] <rye> nm thinkpad_acpi calculates something incorrectly
[12:49] <seb128> bah
[12:49] <seb128> box frozen on xrandr changes
[12:49] <seb128> then keybings all fucked up again
[12:49] <desrt> x has been a pretty bumpy ride lately
[12:49] <seb128> didrocks, I had to unity --reset, after restart alt was switching to ws2 again
[12:49] <desrt> seb128: are those keybinding changes intentional?
[12:50] <seb128> desrt, yes
[12:50] <desrt> tf?
[12:50] <seb128> desrt, design decision about the default keybindings, but there is no sane way to preserve your config if it's the stock one on update
[12:50] <desrt> didn't we have some talk recently at a UDS about how pointlessly changing things each release is hurting our users?
[12:51] <desrt> i say this because i'm one of our users...
[12:51] <seb128> desrt, well those didn't change each release, they were never reviewed or defined by design
[12:51] <desrt> i don't have a particular affection for one keystroke over another
[12:51] <desrt> but i'd prefer it wasn't changing all the time
[12:51] <seb128> desrt, we just inherited stuff make 15 years ago
[12:51] <seb128> made
[12:51] <desrt> seb128: s/by design/by canonical design/
[12:53] <desrt> the result is still the same, from a user perspective: something that used to work isn't working anymore (plus, no obvious way to discover what happened)
[12:55] <seb128> desrt, yeah, but you can use that argument to stay put for ever and avoid any change
[12:55] <seb128> desrt, though I tend to agree the keybindings changes is pointless
[12:55] <desrt> seb128: i only apply the argument to trivial changes that are undiscoverable
[12:56] <desrt> well, that's not true
[12:56] <desrt> i also apply it in our default app selection discussion
[12:56] <desrt> but only as one factor out of many
[12:56] <seb128> desrt, the keymaps summary you get on super is not that undiscoverable
[12:56] <didrocks> seb128: that's really weird, not sure what happens TBH
[12:56] <seb128> desrt, but then you hit "users don't read"
[12:56] <desrt> seb128: talk to shaunm about that :)
[12:57] <seb128> desrt, yeah, cf what I just wrote as well :p
[12:57] <desrt> the good news is that the gnome documentation team seems to be switching from writing user docs (that we have a lot of and nobody reads) to developer docs (that we desperately need)
[13:17] <m4n1sh> didrocks: ping. Reply when you got time
[13:19] <didrocks> m4n1sh: replying to what? :)
[13:20] <m4n1sh> I means when you are free then reply to my ping :)
[13:20] <didrocks> m4n1sh: can be done now :)
[13:20] <m4n1sh> just wanted to know the freeze process
[13:20] <m4n1sh> bug fixes? which is the freeze for that?
[13:21] <m4n1sh> final freeze?
[13:21] <didrocks> m4n1sh: one sec, again OTP
[13:21] <m4n1sh> sure
[13:29] <didrocks> m4n1sh: yeah? ;)
[13:29] <didrocks> so you have different freezes
[13:30] <didrocks> you have release cycle freeze, which are feature freeze and ui freeze
[13:30] <didrocks> m4n1sh: to see the definition, it's the link I pasted you yesterday
[13:30] <didrocks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
[13:31] <didrocks> m4n1sh: for them, you can request exceptions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[13:32] <didrocks> m4n1sh: then, we have "freeze" for every goal (like now, precise is frozen for beta1), and we push only fixes that are relevant to push a nice beta1
[13:32] <didrocks> m4n1sh: does it make sense?
[13:32] <m4n1sh> didrocks: true :)
[13:32] <m4n1sh> be my mentor :)
[13:33] <didrocks> :)
[13:38] <pitti> I'm off for some errands, back for the release meeting
[13:38] <ogra_> didrocks, haha ... just got a mail from alf, apparently he got the patches down to:
[13:38] <ogra_> compiz-core: 350 KB
[13:38] <ogra_> compiz-plugins-main: 180 KB
[13:38] <ogra_> :D
[13:39] <ogra_> (i discussed it with kate and we agreed that it would only go in after beta)
[13:40] <didrocks> ogra_: \o/
[13:40] <didrocks> ogra_: he isn't using taz, isn't it? :p
[13:40] <didrocks> gzip*
[13:40] <ogra_> ah, i thought its the greek word for a harry potter magic potion :)
[13:41] <didrocks> Bahah :)
[13:41] <ogra_> i dont think he uses any compression there :)
[13:41] <didrocks> so, applying the 2 patches on the armel build only, isn't it?
[13:41] <didrocks> and they are reponsible for them :)
[13:41] <ogra_> right
[13:41] <ogra_> well, responsibility is shared ...
[13:42] <didrocks> hum, how shared?
[13:42] <ogra_> i said i'd take the blame for packaging bits
[13:42] <ogra_> they are responsible for the code
[13:42] <didrocks> yeah, make sense :)
[13:42] <ogra_> in any case you shouldnt be bothered
[13:42] <didrocks> I think I read something about applying some patch only on some arch with quilt
[13:43] <ogra_> (yet ... once it is merged and with the new arm handling poluicy, -desktop will be responsible for all desktop arm bits soon)
[13:44] <didrocks> new arm handling policy?
[13:45] <ogra_> you dont read your mails, eh ?
[13:45] <didrocks> well, once it's merged upstream no worry :)
[13:45] <ogra_> ubuntu-arm is gone ... not existing anymore
[13:45] <s9iper1> anybody knows how can i downgrade  back to empathy 3.3.4  from 3.3.5  ?
[13:45] <didrocks> ogra_: I try to, but with all the ML, I maybe miss that one, which ML?
[13:45] <ogra_> platform had a mail from victor
[13:46] <didrocks> pitti: ah, I didn't get to the platform ML yet :)
[13:46] <didrocks> oupss, ogra_ ^
[13:46] <ogra_> heh
[13:46] <didrocks> let me look
[13:46] <ogra_> the plan is to treat arm like x86 and amd64 ... no special forces/special cases anymore for it
[13:47] <ogra_> which means if you guys pull in a mono app, you have to make sure it runs on arm too
[13:47] <didrocks> ogra_: ah, got it :)
[13:47] <ogra_> (or fix LibO if it doesnt work on arm etc...)
[13:48] <didrocks> ogra_: well, for "fixing", we will need hw :)
[13:49] <didrocks> to run them
[13:49] <pitti> ubuntu on your phone! *caugh*
[13:49] <ogra_> yeah, so your manager should give you pandaboards :)
[13:49]  * pitti really off now, bbl
[13:49] <didrocks> ogra_: but ok, got it, but for the patch, as long as it's not merged upstream, the responsability are defined? :p
[13:49] <ogra_> yeah, dont worry
[13:49] <didrocks> ok ;)
[13:49] <ogra_> and even after, feel free to contact me in the foundations team if there are arm issues ;)
[13:50] <ogra_> its not like the arm team members vanished from the face of the earth ... we just got spread across all platform teams
[13:50] <ogra_> (apart from desktop apparently)
[13:51] <didrocks> so we are getting nobody in? weird
[13:52] <ogra_> ask your manager :)
[14:17] <om26er> hey kenvandine
[14:17] <om26er> we have an empathy bug that seems specific to Ubuntu as no one upstream have seen it
[14:17] <kenvandine> hey om26er
[14:18] <om26er> kenvandine, good morning ;)
[14:18] <om26er> bug 818975
[14:18] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 818975 in empathy "Thumbnails for profile pictures appear fullsize in chat window until 'Preferences' opened" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818975
[14:19] <kenvandine> oh, that can't be ubuntu specific
[14:19] <om26er> its something with dconf maybe
[14:19] <kenvandine> it isn't really the thumbnail
[14:19] <kenvandine> it isn't loading the theme
[14:20] <kenvandine> we default to an adium theme
[14:20] <kenvandine> so i bet we are more likely to hit it
[14:20] <om26er> kenvandine, mind commenting on the upstream bug
[14:21] <kenvandine> sure
[14:21] <om26er> thx
[14:23] <kenvandine> oh, unless it is maybe apparmor
[14:37] <seb128> ok, I'm out for some errands as well
[14:37] <seb128> bbl
[14:55] <ritz> quick question, where (src package) does the shutdown menu come from in Unity ?
[14:56] <dobey> the system indicator i would guess
[14:59] <turbotax> anyone here?
[15:00] <ritz> turbotax, hi ?
[15:01] <ritz> dobey, thanks, indicator-session
[15:03] <dobey> oh yes, session; that one
[15:03] <turbotax> how u doing people
[15:03] <turbotax> and my fellow brothers
[15:15] <Sweetshark> pitti: the Libreoffice presentation templates we ship by default are really rather outdated and ugly. Whom would I assign a bug to coordinate updating them/making them nifty again?
[15:18] <Sweetshark> woha! jockey crashed while installing virtualbox display drivers.
[15:31] <pitti> Sweetshark: hm, add an ayatana-design task perhaps?
[15:33] <turbotax> Anyone here knows about rfi scanner or smtp scanner or ssh root scanner?
[15:36] <turbotax> ???
[15:36] <turbotax> ?
[15:43] <kenvandine> om26er, i just fixed bug 818975
[15:43] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 818975 in ubuntu-artwork "Thumbnails for profile pictures appear fullsize in chat window until 'Preferences' opened" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818975
[15:44] <om26er> kenvandine, was that a bug in the theme?
[15:44] <kenvandine> no
[15:44] <kenvandine> our gsettings override
[15:44] <kenvandine> sort of...
[15:45] <kenvandine> at some point empathy introduced the need to set theme-variant as well
[15:45] <kenvandine> without it, it fell back to classic
[15:45] <turbotax> no one understand me here?
[15:45] <kenvandine> turbotax, sorry, this is a development channel
[15:46] <turbotax> ok
[15:46] <kenvandine> turbotax, perhaps better to ask in #ubuntu
[15:46] <turbotax> can anyone tell me where people scanning for rfi shell?
[15:48] <kenvandine> pitti, the empathy 3.3.90 upload will take some time, it requires a new package (really a renamed one)
[15:49] <kenvandine> farsight was renamed farstream, new upstream project
[15:50] <kenvandine> but mostly the same code
[15:50] <kenvandine> and it requires gnome-contacts
[15:53] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, can you revert the clutter build dep?
[15:53] <jbicha> isn't that only needed for empathy-call?
[15:54] <jbicha> *that = clutter
[15:54] <kenvandine> pitti, it doesn't add a new build dep
[15:54] <kenvandine> not for clutter
[15:54] <pitti> kenvandine: I diffed configure, and it looked like it
[15:54] <kenvandine> humm
[15:54] <kenvandine> i'll look
[15:55] <kenvandine> according to the NEWS file it requires the same version it did before
[15:58] <kenvandine> pitti, oh they did bump the clutter required version, but it is still lower than what we have in main
[15:58] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, ok; some part of me thought clutter was in universe
[15:58] <kenvandine> nope :)
[15:58] <kenvandine> to keep clutter off the CD i split empathy-call into a separate package
[15:59] <kenvandine> which is the only part that requires it
[15:59] <kenvandine> i need to confirm that the old call interface still works if empathy-call isn't installed though :)
[15:59] <kenvandine> the painful change is really the need for a new package :(
[16:00] <kenvandine> i packaged it yesterday, i'll upload it today
[16:00] <kenvandine> should be an easy mir, it is basically a rename from the old farsight package
[16:02] <pitti> kenvandine: that doesn't need a formal mir
[16:02] <kenvandine> cool
[16:02] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, farsight vs. farstream? yeah, I noticed
[16:02] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:03] <dobey> maybe nintendo, ms, or rare sent a c&d letter to them :)
[16:03] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:04] <Sweetshark> pitti: filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/940405
[16:04] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 940405 in libreoffice "LibreOffice presentation templates could use an update" [Wishlist,New]
[16:07] <Riddell> nessita: not yet but I'll keep looking for problems :)
[16:07] <nessita> Riddell: please :)
[16:08] <dobey> is mvo gone already?
[16:18] <Riddell> kenvandine: you have an upload in the queue?
[16:39] <arand> Supplying x64 and x128 hicolor-theme icons should be enough to make the unity applauncher look ok right?
[16:40] <arand> I was testing redeclipse via a liveCD before and the icon ended up mangled, could this be due to it being a liveCD or am I doing something wrong in packaging?
[16:48] <kenvandine> Riddell, ubuntu-artwork
[16:48] <kenvandine> fixed a bug setting the default adium theme in empathy
[16:49] <cyphermox> seb128: question about   * debian/patches/lp829673_hide_nm-applet.patch:
[16:49] <cyphermox> I'm seeing this is dropped, does that mean the other changes for the same checkbox in bluetooth and sound will also be dropped?
[16:50] <seb128> cyphermox, will -> have been
[16:50] <seb128> cyphermox, and yes
[16:50] <cyphermox> cool
[16:50] <Riddell> kenvandine: why is it important for beta 1?
[16:50] <seb128> cyphermox, sorry for the time wasted adding the option
[16:50] <seb128> cyphermox, but I guess the ui was not the most difficult bit
[16:50] <cyphermox> I had basically designed the patch with consistency on that aspect, hence the question :)
[16:50] <cyphermox> seb128: no, it wasn't
[16:51] <seb128> cyphermox, design communication mismatches
[16:51] <cyphermox> really no problem w/r/t dropping, it's a little surprising, but there *is* still the gconf key to deal with that
[16:51] <cyphermox> and I'm clearly not the intended audience for such a feature :)
[16:51] <seb128> ;-)
[16:52] <seb128> cyphermox, well I think they decided that on desktop very few users need place in their panels
[16:52] <seb128> cyphermox, I guess the option will be useful on other form factors
[16:52] <cyphermox> makes sense
[16:52] <cyphermox> which is what i've been saying all along on the relevant bug report to justify not adding the feature yet :D
[16:52] <cyphermox> on the bright side this will drop by a little the gconf usage in g-c-c
[16:53] <cyphermox> I'll make sure we aggressively transition nm-applet and NM away from any gconf if possible for next cycle, it should be easy enough to do
[16:54] <kenvandine> Riddell, it fixes a really annoying regression and it is a simple fix
[16:55] <kenvandine> particularly for the first login experience
[16:56] <seb128> cyphermox, oh yeah, you will probably hear about me on that next cycle
[16:56] <seb128> cyphermox, the gconf users are shrinking and you are in the remaining set
[16:56] <seb128> cyphermox, I will probably do a push to drop it from the CD next cycle
[16:59] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[17:00] <seb128> kenvandine, sorry I just remembered that I told you I would look at farsight yesterday and totally forgot that
[17:00] <seb128> kenvandine, do you still want me to have a look? where is it again? ;-)
[17:02] <cyphermox> seb128: gconf> should be easy enough; there's only like, 5 or 6 keys in total. That's one of the things I was considering hacking on during UDS
[17:03] <seb128> cyphermox, I'm surprised upstream didn't do it yet
[17:04] <cyphermox> seb128: upstream largely moved to gnome-shell for network management now
[17:04] <seb128> yeah, makes sense...
[17:06] <kenvandine> seb128, lp:~ken-vandine/+junk/farstream
[17:06] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[17:07] <kenvandine> seb128, since the upstream project is really a rename from farsight should i include the old changelog?
[17:07] <pitti> Laney, seb128: do we want to seed libproxy1-plugin-gsettings and libproxy1-plugin-networkmanager?
[17:08] <seb128> kenvandine, I would keep the packaging just dch and change the name in the changelog for the new upload
[17:08] <seb128> pitti, Laney: I've no clue about proxy and libproxy sorry
[17:08] <seb128> kenvandine, ^ maybe have an idea
[17:08] <seb128> I think gwibber was one of the libproxy users?
[17:08] <kenvandine> not really
[17:09] <kenvandine> it is still disabled in gwibber
[17:09] <kenvandine> since it causes nasty crashes
[17:09] <pitti> didrocks: do you know why unity-2d-launcher unity-2d-places want to go to universe now? (for some days already)
[17:09] <pitti> didrocks: I think apt-get autoremove also killed it from my system
[17:09] <kenvandine> pitti, i think those got renamed to unity-2d-shell
[17:09] <didrocks> pitti: those are transitional packages
[17:09] <didrocks> yeah, unity-2d-shell is the new hot stuff :)
[17:09] <pitti> didrocks: ah, so we should seed them in precise to keep them in main for upgrades, and drop them in Q
[17:10] <didrocks> pitti: indeed, can do
[17:10] <seb128> pitti, btw I guess that now is too late to get a ffe mir for gnome-contacts and get it on the CD for beta right?
[17:10] <pitti> seb128: did that become useful now?
[17:10] <seb128> kenvandine, do you aim at landing the new empathy for beta btw? I guess no
[17:10] <seb128> pitti, new empathy will depends on it to show contact details
[17:10] <seb128> pitti, well "depends", it will pkgkit install it if needed and not there
[17:11] <seb128> pitti, it's in GNOME for 2 cycles I guess it's somewhat working, so I didn't play with it much
[17:12] <didrocks> pitti: I never did that btw for transitional packages, didn't think about the main -> only main upgrade
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: I did play with it perhaps two months ago, and back then it didn't do anything the empathy contact list couldn't do as well
[17:12] <kenvandine> seb128, doesn't have to be in for beta, but it might be nice to
[17:12] <pitti> didrocks: I'll sort it out
[17:12] <didrocks> so I have more than just that, some zg stuff, and such
[17:12] <didrocks> pitti: just for my info, what seed should be used?
[17:12] <didrocks> supported?
[17:12] <kenvandine> pitti, they removed the duplicate functionality in empathy and rely on gnome-contacts now
[17:13]  * didrocks sees transitional packages in supported
[17:14] <pitti> didrocks: supported, at the bottom, "Transitional packages"
[17:14] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'm doing that and catching up on others then
[17:14] <didrocks> like netbook-launcher
[17:15] <pitti> didrocks: ah, you want to?
[17:15] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I will keep that in my mind that way :)
[17:15] <pitti> didrocks: I committed the old printer driver package names
[17:15] <pitti> didrocks: so, all your's now
[17:15] <didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
[17:15] <pitti> I demoted the other bits from http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[17:15] <pitti> so after that it should be very short
[17:16] <didrocks> netbook-launcher was still on the dvd seed, removing
[17:16] <didrocks> at least, learning something this EOW ;) didn't think about main -> keeping only main migration
[17:22] <pitti> didrocks: thanks, looks good
[17:22] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for pointing it! :)
[17:27] <pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
[17:28] <didrocks> have a good week-end pitti!
[17:34] <dobey> why is aptdaemon apparently not a) actaully updating the cache, and b) instlaling the packages it was told to install. meh
[17:40] <hallyn> would this be the right place to ask for unity quick-launch tips?
[17:41] <Laney> kenvandine: even the new version?
[17:42] <kenvandine> Laney, yes
[17:42] <Laney> pitti: seb128: I don't know how they should get out — I thought maybe as Recommends of those packages, but users should have them, yeah.
[17:42] <Laney> weird. would be good to debug that.
[17:42] <hallyn> i've got an icon i nlauncher for a script which does 'exec gnome-terminal -x (somecommand)'.  i want unity to bring up that window when i hit alt-N for that icon.
[17:42] <hallyn> but it sees it as a gnome-termainl like others
[17:42] <kenvandine> Laney, upstream has confirmed the bug and gave up on trying to fix it :/
[17:42] <Laney> :(
[17:43] <hallyn> hm, maybe -t would help me
[17:44] <dobey> hallyn: in the .desktop file for that launcher, add StartupWMClass="yourmagiccommand"
[17:44] <hallyn> dobey: thanks!
[17:44] <dobey> without the quotes, and with the unique id
[17:44] <hallyn> wait.
[17:44] <hallyn> the command doesn't qhave to be precisely what's in /proc/$$/cmdline does it?
[17:44] <dobey> oh that probably won't work though
[17:44] <dobey> since the window will have the terminal's wmclass
[17:45] <kenvandine> Laney, http://code.google.com/p/libproxy/issues/detail?id=146
[17:45] <dobey> i'm not sure there's a way to set the wmclass for the terminal in that way
[17:46] <hallyn> (looking ot see if wmctrl can help me)
[17:46] <dobey> hallyn: also, gnome-terminal is a single process application, so you can't really have one terminal be "this app" and another terminal be just a terminal, in that sense
[17:46] <hallyn> ah.  i see.
[17:47] <hallyn> so maybe i'd have better luck with rxvt
[17:47] <dobey> hallyn: you could, however, write a python script instead, which just embedded a vte widget in a GtkWindow, and ran your app inside it
[17:47] <dobey> hallyn: or just use a different terminal
[17:47] <dobey> but only for that app, as other terminals may have similar issues with single process and wmclass stuff
[17:53] <hallyn> wmclass yeah, single process, at least i can pick a decent terminal that doesn't do that
[17:53] <hallyn> thanks
[17:56]  * kenvandine decides doing some lucid -> precise upgrade testing could be a fun way to spend the afternoon
[17:58] <hallyn> (it's *so* tempting to go the python route.)
[18:00] <rickspencer3> Sweetshark, fwiw, LO works for me again :)
[18:02] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, i'm out of pepsi max
[18:03] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, time for a stout then :)
[18:04] <m4n1sh> didrocks: ping
[18:04] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, before or after i upload kittyview? ;)
[18:04] <didrocks> m4n1sh: yeah?
[18:04] <kenvandine> after, to celebrate :)
[18:05] <m4n1sh> didrocks: cando made more changes. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ilgbFR2iqRE/T0fQJref9YI/AAAAAAAAADs/nb_YRTu3vz4/s949/alm-new.png
[18:06] <m4n1sh> do you suggest to apply for UIF exception
[18:06] <m4n1sh> you are the master, suggest what should be done
[18:07] <didrocks> m4n1sh: yeah, that clearly need an UIFe
[18:07] <didrocks> m4n1sh: (and anyway won't be pushed before beta1 as we are in freeze now)
[18:07] <didrocks> that's nice changes btw :)
[18:07] <m4n1sh> yes
[18:07] <m4n1sh> that's really nice
[18:07] <m4n1sh> plus a bunch of bugfixes
[18:07] <didrocks> yeah, so please apply for an UIFe
[18:08] <m4n1sh> thanks for the suggestion
[18:08] <didrocks> yw ;)
[18:20] <hallyn> gah!  just updated unity, and ctrl-alt-<leftright> stopped working again
[18:23] <kenvandine> hallyn, keybindings changed
[18:24] <kenvandine> super-shift-<leftright>
[18:25] <kenvandine> it is kind of annoying now that the keybindings overlay gets displayed while i switch workspaces
[18:40]  * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end!
[18:40] <hallyn> yay!  python vte ftw!
[19:20] <kenvandine> dobey, going to get the old kite out today? :-p
[19:23] <dobey> kenvandine: eh?
[19:23] <kenvandine> 60 mph gusts coming our way
[19:23] <dobey> eh
[19:23] <hallyn> dobey: seriously, thanks - I now have a 40 line python script doing just want i want and can use shortcuts as i want :)
[19:24] <kenvandine> http://img.ly/emlY
[19:24] <dobey> hallyn: cheers :)
[19:25] <dobey> kenvandine: eh
[19:25] <BigWhale> Are there any reasons why I shouldn't use Glade3 and Gkt.Builder with Python?
[19:26] <dobey> i guess i should go to the grocer and get some pizza and beer or something
[19:26] <dobey> as long as i have electricity and internet, it's all good
[19:33] <kenvandine> dobey, indeed :)
[19:34] <dobey> i didn't have any surfing plans tonight or anything
[19:34] <dobey> i did just download like 6 games on ps3 though. i'm going to ahve to upgrade the hard drive soon i think
[20:12] <kenvandine> tried to do some upgrade testing to make sure empathy and gwibber lucid->precise works
[20:13] <kenvandine> but of course do-release-upgrade can't figure out how to upgrade :/
[20:14]  * kenvandine steps out for a few
[20:18] <dobey> kenvandine: uh, did you change the color picker widget in gwibber-acocunts to do some craziness?
[20:18] <dobey> no i guess gtk3 did at some point recently
[20:50] <kenvandine> dobey, exactly...
[20:50] <dobey> yeah; it hurtses
[21:11] <kenvandine> seb128, did you forget to push you libindicator branch?
[21:12] <seb128> kenvandine, who,what,me?
[21:12] <kenvandine> oh
[21:12] <kenvandine> you did...
[21:12] <seb128> kenvandine, seems not...what is missing?
[21:12] <kenvandine> the merge proposal doesn't show it being merged
[21:13] <seb128> weird
[21:13] <seb128> oh, yeah, when I merged it launchpad still didn't have the diff
[21:13] <kenvandine> bzr merge lp:~indicator-applet-developers/ubuntu/precise/libindicator/upstream
[21:13] <seb128> like I got the email in my inbox in the european morning, 5 hours after the merge request
[21:13] <seb128> then 3 hours later there was still no diff
[21:13] <kenvandine> looks like the proposal is from the wrong branch
[21:13] <kenvandine> it still doesn't have a diff :)
[21:14] <seb128> oh? I blame launchpad
[21:14] <kenvandine> tedg's fault :)
[21:14] <kenvandine> he proposed the wrong branch
[21:14]  * kenvandine rejects
[21:14] <seb128> did he?
[21:14] <kenvandine> lp:~indicator-applet-developers/ubuntu/precise/libindicator/upstream
[21:14] <seb128> well I merged what was there I think
[21:14] <kenvandine> should have been lp:~indicator-applet-developers/libindicator/upstream
[21:15] <seb128> no
[21:15] <tedg> I should just kill the in project branches.
[21:15] <seb128> he changed the namespace recently to have those not showing on the upstream project page
[21:15] <kenvandine> ah
[21:15] <seb128> I think the vcs was right, that's what I copied in my bzr merge command
[21:15] <kenvandine> well launchpad doesn't seem to like the new namespace
[21:15] <seb128> he did on other merges
[21:15] <seb128> it got stucked on this one for some reason
[21:15] <seb128> he->it
[21:16] <kenvandine> ok
[21:16]  * kenvandine marked it as merged
[21:16] <seb128> thanks
[21:16] <kenvandine> i should have known seb128 would never forget to push his branch
[21:16] <kenvandine> :-D
[21:16] <seb128> lol
[21:17] <kenvandine> disappointing that i couldn't blame tedg either
[21:17] <kenvandine> what kind of friday afternoon is this!
[21:17] <kenvandine> blaming LP is no fun
[21:17] <seb128> you can blame to change the namespace
[21:17] <seb128> it's almost impossible to see what merge request are waiting
[21:18] <kenvandine> that's true
[21:24] <kenvandine> i really wish firefox would tell me which tab is playing a video
[21:25] <kenvandine> restarted browser with ~70 tabs... one of them is playing audio and i can't find it!
[21:25] <bryceh> heh
[21:25] <bryceh> kenvandine, now you have two problems
[21:25] <micahg> kenvandine: CTRL+SHIFT+E
[21:25] <kenvandine> what does ctrl-shift-e do?
[21:25] <micahg> panorama FTW :)
[21:25] <kenvandine> oh!
[21:26] <kenvandine> that helps!
[21:26] <kenvandine> whew... much better
[21:27] <kenvandine> micahg, thanks!
[21:27] <micahg> you're welcome
[21:28] <micahg> kenvandine: could you please have bug 936600 looked at by the right person?
[21:28] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 936600 in libindicate "Please stop versioning the indicate pkg-config files" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936600
[21:30] <kenvandine> micahg, awesome!  /me assigns to tedg
[21:30]  * micahg hopes that's proper policy though
[21:31] <kenvandine> once per cycle when tedg breaks abi i have to spend a day on fixing all of those
[21:31] <kenvandine> hate that
[21:32]  * kenvandine hugs tedg :)
[21:32] <tedg> The problem is that you want people to knowledgably switch between API versions.
[21:33] <tedg> If we've changed the API, we don't want that to "just compile"
[21:33] <kenvandine> true...
[21:33] <kenvandine> but, it is usually just abi changes
[21:33] <dobey> yeah, that versioning isn't for ABI, it's supposed to be for API
[21:33] <kenvandine> at least the last couple times
[21:33] <micahg> right, that's my question, is it ABI or API changes
[21:33] <dobey> if it's being used only for ABI changes, it's doing it wrong
[21:33] <tedg> We use it for API changes.
[21:33] <tedg> Not ABI ones.
[21:33] <kenvandine> tedg, the last one was just abi
[21:34] <tedg> Then that was a mistake...
[21:34] <tedg> I thought we changed one of the params.
[21:34] <tedg> But, whatever.
[21:34] <kenvandine> you told me it was abi only :)
[21:34] <dobey> well, you can just diff the .gir files
[21:34] <tedg> Heh
[21:34] <kenvandine> i thought you were trying to keep the version inline :)
[21:35] <tedg> Yeah, that isn't a bad thing either, but I don't think it's worth the hassle.
[21:35] <tedg> I've started to try and put two defines in my Makefiles for ABI and API version.
[21:35] <tedg> Just build stuff off of that.
[21:36] <dobey> well, the libtool verion is what should change when ABI is broken
[21:37] <dobey> and API too, but in a different way
[21:37] <tedg> dobey, Correct, but I use the variable at the top of the file to get that.  Just to make it clear and in one place.
[21:38] <dobey> right; anyway, a blunder is a blunder, no matter how it's blundered. :)
[23:21] <desrt> RAOF: awake?
[23:21]  * desrt can never figure out this aussie timezone business
[23:37] <Riddell> desrt: chances are it's saturday whatever the timezone :)
[23:40] <desrt> good call