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bulllFF ?DCC SEND “ff???f??????????????” 0 0 014:10
bulll??�DCC SEND "ff???f?𝑹𝑰𝑷𝑳𝑶𝑳𝑺𝑼𝑷𝑮𝑼𝒀𝑺" 0 0 014:15
* skaet waves15:59
skaetits getting time....15:59
* pitti waves towards the world15:59
skaethi apw,  got leann's message.   :)16:00
apwskaet, yo16:00
meetingologyMeeting started Fri Feb 24 16:00:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:00
* ScottK looks over and watches Riddell desperately scribble out his release meeting input.16:00
* stgraber waves16:00
skaet [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet16:00
skaetPlease remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause. :)16:00
skaetAgenda can be found:16:00
skaet#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-02-2416:00
skaet Individual team status links will be added to it from:16:00
skaet #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/thread.html16:00
skaet Schedule is at:16:00
skaet #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule16:00
skaet #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/16:00
skaet .16:00
skaet Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:16:00
skaet #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html16:00
pittistill roundtable today, or free-form questions?16:00
skaetBugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.16:00
skaetUpcoming Dates:16:00
skaet• 2012/02/02 - Beta 116:01
skaetNow in BetaFreeze ( as well as UserInterfaceFreeze, FeatureFreeze).  Thank you to those who got their fixes in before the Freeze.  :)16:01
skaetThank you from release team to stgraber for getting queuebot working on the unapproved queue last night - makes things much easier to keep on top of.  :)16:01
skaetCD images are oversized,  so figuring out options to cut down the size of some packages/etc. would be appreciated.16:01
skaetIf time permits (ie. we end less than an hour), there will be a discussion at the end on some restructuring of this meeting,   possibly using an open forum for Q&A rather than explicit round table.   But for today again, we'll continue with round table.16:01
skaetpitti,  still round table today.    want the discussion to happen first.16:01
skaetbefore we switch16:01
skaetgo pitti.16:01
pittiwrt CD size, we just got a new ffox/tbird which should save ~ 2 or 2.5 MB each16:01
pittiskaet: will that be a topic of its own?16:02
pittiif so, I'll just wait16:02
pittiack, ..16:02
skaetok, on to round table, and then if we don't figure it out during round table,  image pruning topic at end.16:03
skaet[TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris16:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
mlegrisno big updated besides checkbox changing to Qt16:03
mlegrisany questions?16:03
Riddellmlegris: ooh where can I test that?16:04
mlegrisRiddell: yes, you can now :)16:04
* skaet points Riddell to mletgis's email...16:04
Riddellgot it :)16:04
skaet[Topic] QA team update -  jibel16:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA team update - jibel
* Riddell already got nessita to fix a problem in ubuntuone Qt :)16:05
jibel[link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000885.html16:05
jibelupgrade bug 940252 is caused by a very bad probe effect of the code that capture debconf prompt16:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 940252 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "lucid -> precise main all upgrade: system upgrades but upgraded system is still lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94025216:06
nessitaRiddell: want me to fix something else? :-D16:06
* nessita fixes16:06
pittijibel: oh, curious16:06
jibelit is disabled for the moment and in return there a new bug with kde-runtime that fails to upgrade from lucid16:06
jibelbug 94039616:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 940396 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "lucid -> precise main all failed to upgrade: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of kde-runtime" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94039616:07
skaetjibel,  looks like there will be some things to dig into indeed.   Thanks for flagging them now.16:07
* skaet contemplates foundation team will be busy for next couple of days...16:07
Riddelljibel: hmm interesting.  I did my smoke test on oneiric upgrade and that was fine, guess I'll need to do lucid now16:07
skaetThanks jibel (and mlegris).  :)16:08
skaet[Topic] Security team update - mdeslaur16:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Security team update - mdeslaur
mdeslaur[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000872.html16:09
mdeslaurapparmor upload is imminent16:09
mdeslaurnothing further16:09
mdeslaurany questions?16:10
skaetthanks mdeslaur.16:10
skaetapw,    will next kernel after beta 1 have the upstream commit security requests?16:11
* apw doesn't know off the top of his head, will look16:11
skaet[Topic] Kernel team update -apw16:11
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel team update -apw
apw[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000874.html16:12
apw 16:12
apwThere has been a new development in the RC6 patch we applied.  An16:12
apwadditional fix has been proposed from upstream which has been confirmed to16:12
apwresolve the graphics corruption issues seen on some Samsung model's when16:12
apwRC6 is enabled by default.  We're still waiting on feedback if it also16:12
apwresolves the hard shutdown issues seen on ASUS UX31E's.  We do consider16:12
apwthese critical issues to fix before release and believe it does warrant a16:12
apwBeta Freeze exception.  This change is key to our RC6 testing as we are16:12
apwunable to request the valid upstream combinations without it.  As such,16:12
apwwe have requested and received approval from the release team to upload.16:12
apwThe upload was done about 10 minutes ago, we will be monitoring.16:12
apw 16:12
apwskaet, on the apparmor patches, i don't think we have them yet so depend when they drop ..16:12
ScottKKernel is accepted and building now.16:12
skaetThanks apw.16:13
arosalesapw:  Is the RC6 bug, 937378?16:13
arosaleslooks to be so16:13
apwthat looks to be the regression yes ...16:14
apwstill waiting on testing there by the looks of it ..16:14
arosalesapw, it looks like the other one mentioned on the wiki is 935965. Any other feeback? Testers reporting good power savings? Seems like it would be pretty advantageous, thanks for adding it :-)16:14
apwyes those who it works for are seeing 10's of percent improvement16:15
arosalesgood to hear, makes my battery happy :-)16:15
skaet[TOPIC] Foundations team Q&A - stgraber16:16
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Foundations team Q&A - stgraber
* stgraber waves16:16
RiddellI accepted the linux uploaded a little while ago16:16
Riddellstgraber: nothing else for beta?16:17
stgraber(I added a few comments to bug 926859 trying to explain why using compiz with llvmpipe by default is a bad idea)16:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 926859 in unity "llvmpipe software rendering needs blacklisting in unity-support-test" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92685916:17
stgraberRiddell: installer fixes ;)16:17
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ScottKWill the updated kernel also need a DI upload?16:17
stgraberbut besides that, no, I think we're pretty much done with features now that whoopsie is in16:17
stgraberScottK: AFAICS there wasn't an ABI bump, so no, unless we care about the RC6 fix in the netinstall images16:18
* ScottK guesses we don't.16:18
skaetRiddell,  yeah see jibel's QA email...  :)16:19
stgraberI assumed that too, so there shouldn't be a d-i rebuilt for beta-1 (I refreshed it yesterday already)16:19
stgraberunless something else breaks obviously...16:19
skaetthanks stgraber good to know.16:19
Riddella bug free ubiquity is nice for a beta16:20
skaetdbarth,  can you comment on the compiz issues in your section...16:20
stgraberRiddell: not sure I can promise that ;)16:20
* skaet figures he wants to look up the details ;)16:20
stgraberbut all beta1 targeted installer bugs should be fixed early next week and probably a bunch more16:21
skaetThanks stgraber for getting the queuebot working on the unapproved queue.   MUCH APPRECIATED!.  :)16:21
stgraberskaet: np, was surprisingly easy to rewrite ;) I think I spent more time trying to find the existing code than rewriting it from scratch ;)16:21
Davieystgraber: you re-wrote it from scratch?!16:22
skaetstgraber,  awsome.   Lets make sure its checked in and accessible so we don't go through this exercise again.  :)16:22
stgraberskaet: it also allows for monitoring of other queues like New if that's something useful for #ubuntu-release16:22
stgraberDaviey: yeah ... well, current version is < 60 lines of code, so wasn't exactly difficult ;)16:23
skaetstgraber,  yes,  that would be.   Lets talk about it in the #ubuntu-release channel after the meeting.16:23
* skaet wonders if it can say who accepted the unapproved too... ? but later. :)16:24
skaet[TOPIC] Server team Q&A - arosales16:24
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server team Q&A - arosales
arosalesApologies for the late post once again. We'll get our game together soon.16:24
arosalesNot a lot of new items to report on this week. OpenStack keystone-lite will replace keystone in the next week.16:24
arosalesAny questions?16:24
Riddellarosales: uploads in unapproved?16:24
Riddellnova?  python-novaclient?16:25
=== Ursinha_ is now known as Guest56087
arosalesDaviey: any updates on swift ^16:25
Riddellthere are, and we need to be told why they're important for beta16:25
DavieyRiddell: What part of it?16:26
Daviey(can you expand the question)16:26
RiddellDaviey: we'll do this in #u-release16:26
pittithey don't link to any RC bugs (or other bugs)16:26
pittiso need a separate explanation16:26
DavieyRiddell: right... So.. for the last few releases it's been something which has been followed.16:26
DavieyWe track usptream to completition, where they track our dev cycle.16:26
DavieyIt has a good functional and unit test suite.16:27
DavieyIf this is a process we should re-visit, then we can have that as a seperate discussion16:27
RiddellDaviey: all fine, what's the reason to upload during beta freeze?16:27
Davieyhttps://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20OpenStack%20Testing/ , is there to add confidence16:27
skaetarosales,  is bug 924739 any ETA when this is likely to land?16:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 924739 in squid3 (Ubuntu Precise) "after upgrade from oneiric to precise, previous squid config unused, cannot be used when relocated" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92473916:28
DavieyRiddell: In retrospect, it could probably have been held back.. However, i'd quite like it to land in the beta.16:28
* skaet wondering if in time for beta or if this is release note material?16:29
arosalesskaet: I need to check on an ETA with Adam, but the issue has been identified as far as the config.16:29
Riddellok, a cheeky late upload, you can buy me and skaet and pitti beers to get it through16:29
skaetthanks arosales. :)16:29
arosalesskaet: I'll follow up with you later today16:30
pittiarosales, Daviey: so you shall have it, accepted16:30
skaet[TOPIC] ARM team?   Q&A - ogra_16:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM team? Q&A - ogra_
Davieypitti: thanks :)16:31
ogra_sooo ...16:31
ogra_let me shock you guys a bit :)16:31
arosalespitti: Riddell: skaet: thanks :-)16:31
ogra_there was no mail for ubuntu-arm ... since there is no ubuntu-arm anymore ...16:31
ScottKWhere did it go?16:32
ogra_from monday on it is expected that all platform teams care for their arm bits themselves16:32
ogra_so i would like to ask Daviey to report for arm server issues, stgraber for arm foundation issues, pitti for arm desktop etc ...16:32
ogra_the team itself got spread across platform16:32
pittiyes, makes sense16:33
* skaet nods16:33
ogra_and indeed if you have arm issues, feel free to contact people from the former arm team during the transition time16:33
pittiFWIW, we already tracked arm* stuff the same like x86 in stable+1 and other tracking, but of course so far we relied on the arm team to sort out the difficult failurres16:33
ogra_theoretically every team was supposed to have an arm person during the transition ,... desktop somehow didnt get one though16:33
stgraberoh, and I'd like to welcome ogra_ and infinity in the Foundations team (starting on Monday)!16:34
ogra_the expectation is that arm doesnt get treated differently from x86 or amd64 from now on16:34
ogra_heh, yeah, adam and i are in foundations now ... still caring for arm stuff ... but in the place where it should be cared for (platform)16:34
ogra_not in some elite team or so :)16:35
* skaet is glad to see ogra_ and infinity in foundations team too. :)16:35
DavieyI'd rather see them in server :)16:35
skaetThanks ogra_!16:36
ogra_Daviey, ask victorp, probably he can help here ;)16:36
Riddellogra_: so desktop should be hiring someone?16:36
pittiwell, we don't hire an amd64 person16:36
pittiI guess we just need to get some arm hardware16:37
Riddellpitti: ok but do we have the hardware and skills needed?16:37
pittihardware, no16:37
ogra_yeah, your manager should approve a panda or so16:37
Riddellpitti: I do, but I need time and help to set it up16:37
victorpDaviey we could move you to foudations as a swap :)16:37
pittiskills> I expect most of the difficult stuff (compiler, linux) to not live in desktop anyway16:37
ogra_victorp, lol16:37
pittiso far any arm issue I looked at was relatively easy16:37
ogra_if its not LibO or mono, thats true16:37
Riddellpitti: graphics is fiddly for arm, anything using gl16:37
ogra_there are a bunch of nasty packages16:37
Riddelland of course qt and the qreal fun16:37
pittiit took me two days to fix a postgresql bug, but I guess in cases like theses we can still knock on infinity's or janimo's door and ask kindly16:38
ScottKRiddell: Those are at least easy (if tiring)16:38
pittiRiddell: true that16:38
RiddellScottK: you can also rent out your arm machines to desktop for a suitably large fee16:38
ogra_the arm team isnt gone, we are just in other places16:38
ScottKOnce I get a new router for that network segment.  Sure.16:38
DavieyScottK: Talking of which... what happend to those MOTU machines?16:38
DavieyScottK: you had 2 x ARM machines for MOTU use?16:39
RiddellScottK: new issues aren't so easy, I couldn't work out a fix for compiz16:39
ScottKDaviey: See my previous comment about dead router.16:39
RiddellScottK: get jason to expense it16:39
skaet[TOPIC] Linaro team Q&A - fabo16:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro team Q&A - fabo
Riddell(but he's on holiday for the next week i think)16:39
ScottKAlso they aren't hardware Ubuntu supports, so I have to rework them to a more modern release.  Probably debian testing armhf.16:39
ScottKRiddell: It's not the cost it's the time to drive to the store.16:40
fabo_in addition, we want to update live-build (as discussed with skaet)16:40
fabo_after beta1 might be a good timing16:40
skaetstgraber, pitti, ScottK, Riddell, ^ any thoughts about timing/concerns?16:41
fabo_Thanks to Ubuntu ARM team and see you in your new assignment :)16:41
skaetthanks fabo_ :)16:41
ScottKI'd suggest if it's ready now, sooner is better than later.16:42
pittiskaet: linaro builds shouldn't affect us?16:42
stgrabersorry I need a second, the linaro e-mail got on the list very late so haven't had a chance to read pre-meeting16:42
skaetpitti, thought there might be common code,  but we can carry on the discussion in #ubuntu-release after meeting.16:42
stgraberfabo_: would like to see some details on what's in that update live-build and how it'll impact Ubuntu, though #ubuntu-release is fine for that16:43
fabo_stgraber: ok, np.16:44
skaetfabo_,  any thoughts on when the smaller compiz patch (OpenGL ES2.0) will be available for review?16:45
fabo_skaet: no ideas right now, but asap. it's a high prio16:45
skaetfabo_,  fair 'nuf.  Thanks.16:46
skaet[TOPIC] Desktop Team Q&A  - pitti16:46
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Desktop Team Q&A - pitti
pittireport at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000880.html16:46
pittist landed new firefox/tbird with an estimated 5 MB saving of CD space, leaving some 3 or 4 to be taken off16:46
pittioption 1 (and my preferred one) is to drop python3 again by switching lsb-release back to python2; lsb-release is currently the only package using python3 on the CD, so we'd carry those 4.5 MBs just for this16:46
pittithe default option is as always to kick off yet another langpack; we only have Spanish, Portugese, and Chinese left to sacrifice now, though16:47
pittiScottK, doko, stgraber: any opinion on python3?16:47
ogra_skaet, i'll still take care for that patch on teh plkatform side ... no worries, i'll keep you updated16:47
Riddellpitti: any reason not to drop python3?16:47
* skaet thanks ogra_ :)16:47
ScottKpitti: Removing it would make barry very sad.16:47
pittiI bet16:48
ScottKOther than that, I think it's fine.16:48
pittibut carrying it for a 20 line lsb-release script seems a bit heavy16:48
* ScottK agrees.16:48
dokopitti: apport still not using python3? lame ...16:48
pittidoko: -ENOLAUNCHPADLIB16:48
pittiat least from next cycle on we'll have bigger image sizes16:48
stgraberI tend to agree carrying a full language for just a 20 lines script sounds like a waste of space, it's sad not more stuff are using python3 yet though16:49
ScottKDropping it would help all the images, right?16:49
dokopitti: please check with barry, I'm fine with it16:49
skaetThanks pitti.   sounds like we have a decision.16:50
* skaet won't bring it up at end now.... ;)16:50
pittiI'll prepare the upload after barry acks16:50
skaetany other questions for desktop before moving on? ...16:50
skaet[TOPIC] Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth16:51
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Framework Team Q&A - dbarth
skaethmm... don't see dbarth in the channel...16:51
skaet[TOPIC] Unity Services and Settings Team  Q&A - Cimi16:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unity Services and Settings Team Q&A - Cimi
Cimi[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-February/000884.html16:52
CimiYet another intense week for the team :-)16:52
Cimias you can see, lots of bugs fixed16:52
Cimithanks to Coverity as well, nice work from the QA team and our engineer16:53
Cimiwe were able to spot new bugs and improve the quality of our libraries16:53
Cimion the FFe/UIFes16:53
CimiI've updated the list with the remaining links16:54
CimiI'd like to hear your feedback on this side, if there's any16:54
Cimiespecially on the the two requests of the GMenuModel in Hud, and extended support for XUL apps16:54
Cimiwe're not sure they should be considered as bugfixes or exceptions16:55
Cimion the UIFe, I think there shouldn't be problems for the 1st one, the 2nd I was currently working on16:56
CimiI'll try to make the change really subtle (and not as in the bugreport community contribution)16:56
CimiI'm open to all your requests16:56
skaetpitti, any concerns from desktop team on the FFes/UIFes  ?16:57
pittiI haven't actually seen a lot from DX?16:57
pittiwe got two metric tons from online services16:58
pitti(or I don't remember any more)16:58
Riddellpitti: "tonnes" :)16:58
skaetheh,  yeah its that time in the release... memory stack overflow for all.16:58
skaetCimi,  thanks for the details.   Will follow up after meeting.16:59
CimiI think I'm done then, all silent means all good :-)17:00
skaetThanks to the team for all the bug fixes.  :)17:00
Cimiour pleasure and our job :)17:01
skaetyup silence is good. :)17:01
skaet[TOPIC] Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell17:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Team Q&A - Riddell
Riddellstill more politics than coding but kubuntu-active might appear any time now17:02
skaetThanks Riddell.17:02
* skaet figures that Riddell gets to teach the publishers about it, if its ready for B1 - so that issue will get handled ;)17:03
skaet[TOPIC] Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage17:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Edubuntu Team Q&A - stgraber or highvoltage
stgraberI think we're in pretty good shape for beta-1 now and don't expect much to change for this cycle17:04
* skaet glad to hear that17:04
stgraberwe'll probably get more bugfix releases of epoptes and LTSP but both projects are in feature freeze too17:04
skaetThanks stgraber.:)17:04
skaet[TOPIC] Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick17:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xubuntu Team Q&A - madnick
* skaet sees madnick in the channel.... 17:05
skaetany other xubuntu folk around?17:05
skaetnot seeing ubuntu studio folk either,  and lubuntu said they'll not make it.17:07
skaet[TOPIC] MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney17:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU Team Q&A - tumbleweed or Laney
* ScottK knows there's a GHC6 transition going on.17:07
skaetthanks ScottK.17:08
skaetjust a reminder to all,  if an unseeded universe package/fix is ready - please highlight that on #ubuntu-release channel, so we can let it through during the beta freeze.17:08
ScottKI'm been pushing them through as I see them.17:09
ScottKI'm / I've17:09
skaetthanks ScottK.  :)17:09
skaet[TOPIC] Any other business, comments,  questions?17:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business, comments, questions?
pittime too, yes17:09
ScottKI'm guessing that what's in queue for the powerpc builders already will have them busy most of the weekend.  There's LO and two openjdk uploads that aren't even started yet.  Particularly since it's gcc and a kernel build in progress now.17:09
pittiskaet: meeting format/17:09
skaetpitti,  ok - we're over the hour, but yes..  :)17:10
RiddellI'd rather have an open meeting17:10
skaetProposal on the table is to change the format of this meeting17:10
Riddellit would encourage me to send the e-mail earlier17:10
skaetto an open meeting,  rather than a round table.17:10
Riddelland to read over other e-mails if skaet pinged 30 mins before the meeting :)17:10
pittiso we'll throw in questions instead of waiting for our turn17:10
skaetFor this to work,  e-mails will need to be in 2 hours before the meeting.17:11
ScottKSending the mails doesn't seem to have shortened the meeting as it is.17:11
pittiyes, the idea was to read the mails before theh meeting and then have questions ready17:11
pittiwell, it used to be 1.5 hours17:11
Riddellthe current format is too much waiting for no good reason17:11
pittibut I guess many people do other stuff at the side, which probably slows it down as a whole17:11
* pitti is guilty of that himself17:11
skaetIf folks can get their emails in we can try the open format after the initial annonce.17:11
ScottKCould we just have a discussion on the mail list and do away with the meeting?17:11
Riddellnah meeting is useful17:12
skaetScottK,  its efficient for some issues to get resolved to have this meeting.17:12
highvoltageoops, I missed the Edubuntu part (I guess that's a problem with the waiting, you get distracted :) )17:12
Riddellbut it can be short without all the waiting17:12
ScottKOK.  Maybe people should ask their questions on the list as much as possible too.17:12
pittiyes, I think IRC has better turnarounds17:12
skaetScottK ++17:12
ScottKpitti: Sure, but let's keep the meeting to the stuff that really needs to be real time.17:13
pittibut we could certainly do 30 intense minutes (or less in some meetings which aren't right before a beta) instead of the waiting round17:13
Riddellskaet: can you send a reminder to send e-mails and another one 30 mins before meeting to read over them?17:13
pittiScottK: right, and we did resolve questions on the ML before, too (I agree, when possible that makes sense)17:13
skaetRiddell,   its early in the morning for me,  rather this just be a self reminding cron job for folks if they need reminders.17:14
* arosales will work on getting Server team update in a timely manner17:14
skaetall in favor of having emails in 2 hours before,  and going to open forum Q&A session,  please vote  +1,  all wanting to keep with current round table -1 please.....  anyone know the runes?17:15
* skaet figures there's a way to trigger the vote and get those quiet ones to weigh in..17:15
Riddellskaet: cron is fine :)17:15
* skaet thanks pitti17:16
stgraberskaet: #vote subject of the vote17:16
pittionly skaet can issue it17:16
* Riddell out17:16
skaet#vote change meeting to open Q&A rather than round table.17:16
meetingologyPlease vote on: change meeting to open Q&A rather than round table.17:16
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)17:16
pittiRiddell: hm, I just read them as they come in17:16
meetingology+1 received from pitti17:16
meetingology+1 received from mdeslaur17:16
stgraber+1 [Please send your team reports early ...]17:17
meetingology+1 [Please send your team reports early ...] received from stgraber17:17
meetingology+1 received from arosales17:17
meetingology+1 received from fabo_17:17
skaetjibel, mlegris, apw ^ any thoughts?17:18
skaetCimi ^?17:18
meetingology+1 received from jibel17:18
meetingology+0 received from apw17:18
meetingology+0 received from skaet17:18
* skaet not seeing any more votes, but seems we probably have quorum17:20
pittiskaet: #endvote17:20
meetingologyVoting ended on: change meeting to open Q&A rather than round table.17:20
meetingologyVotes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:217:20
meetingologyMotion carried17:20
* skaet thanks pitti :)17:20
skaetThanks mlegris, jibel, mdeslaur, apw, stgraber, arosales, ogra_, fabo, pitti, dbarth, Cimi, Riddell,  ScottK17:21
mdeslaurthanks skaet17:21
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Fri Feb 24 17:21:17 2012 UTC.17:21
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-24-16.00.moin.txt17:21
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-24-16.00.html17:21
Cimithanks skaet17:21
jibelthanks skaet17:21
pittithanks everyone!17:21
arosalesthanks skaet17:21
Davieywoo, thanks17:22
coolbhavihi wendar18:01
ajmitchwendar: want to chair? I'm running on not much sleep right now :)18:02
wendarajmitch: sure18:02
coolbhaviajmitch, me too late night here :)18:02
meetingologyMeeting started Fri Feb 24 18:02:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:02
ajmitch.wi n5618:03
ajmitchas you can see...18:03
wendar[Link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda18:03
wendarno past actions to review18:03
wendarare stgraber and mhall119 here?18:04
* ajmitch cleared off the past meeting items as they were decided at the meeting18:04
* stgraber waves18:04
wendarajmitch: yes, that's good18:04
ajmitchhi stgraber18:04
wendarah, excellent18:05
coolbhavihi mhall11918:05
wendar[TOPIC] Discuss acceptance criteria for separate Unity Lens and Scope packages18:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discuss acceptance criteria for separate Unity Lens and Scope packages
wendarSo, this was discussed in the TB meeting this week.18:06
wendarAnd, they are willing to make an exception that allows scopes to be packaged separately from their related lenses, if the ARB recommends that as the best solution.18:06
mhall119Does everybody have a clear understanding of what I'm asking for and why?18:07
wendarWhere we are now is basically: Does this make sense?18:07
wendarOr, on a deeper level: How are we going to manage the process of approving Scopes and Lenses so it doesn't overload us, risk poor quality, or set bad precedents for the future?18:07
wendarWhatever we choose, does impact our workflow.18:08
wendarmhall119: How about a quick summary?18:08
mhall119after our meeting with the TB, stgraber send a proposal to the ARB mailing list that I think would satisfy the need of lens/scope developers, without compromising the stability of the extras archive, and I am +1 on his proposal18:08
ajmitchmhall119: can you give a (very) brief explanation of what a lense does & what a scope does18:08
mhall119Quick summary: Lenses and scopes can be written independently of eachother, and we want to allow authors to submit them to the ARB separately18:09
mhall119the current rules of the ARB don't allow the scope's package to Depend on the len's package18:09
mhall119but without that Depends, you can have someone installing a scope they can't use18:09
coolbhavimhall119, I just found out that in the ARB review shift past week18:10
mhall119a Lens provides UI information to the Unity Dash, a Scope provides search results to the Dash, to be displayed according to the Lens18:11
mhall119A Scope needs to know about it's Lens, but a Lens doesn't need to know about the Scopes that use it18:11
wendar[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/app-review-board/2012-February/000484.html18:12
mhall119so what I'm seeking is a way for a Scope author to submit their scope without the Lens author having to be involved18:12
wendargood summary, thanks18:14
wendarhas everyone read stgraber's post from earlier this week?18:14
wendar(the link above)18:14
mhall119again, I am +1 on stgraber's recommended (in that link) and would be willing to help with the initial packaging18:14
ajmitchmhall119: the one problem in that mail from stgraber is that each scope would need to be updated by users if a new one is added for the lense - how many scopes do you see being created per lens?18:15
mhall119my only concern is how much added work it will be for the ARB to handle all the packaging of lenses and scopes18:15
wendaryes, I think we need to talk in more detail about how this solution might work18:16
wendarI'm assuming we'd maintain a team bzr branch for each Lens18:16
ajmitchit's not a lot of extra work to have them as one source package in a branch, from what I can see18:16
mhall119ajmitch: as few as 0 external scopes, and probably commonly 5-6 external scopes, but could be more18:16
wendarin which case, we can accept scope submissions as merge proposals18:16
wendarwhich would significantly lessen the load18:16
wendarI also had a question about upgrades18:17
wendarsince upgrading to a new Ubuntu release (i.e. Oneiric->Precise) is a resubmission for Extras18:17
wendarthat would mean that we drop all scopes, start fresh with the Lens, and accept any new scope submissions for the new release18:17
stgraber_sorry looks like I can't reach hetzner from here at the moment (and so lost my IRC session ...)18:18
wendarwhich would save us the work of upgrading all the independent scopes for incompatible API changes18:18
mhall119wendar: is that because of the API change, or will this happen at every release?18:18
stgraber_last I got was "18:12 < mhall119> so what I'm seeking is a way for a Scope author to submit their scope without the Lens author having to be involved", can someone paste me what I missed in private?18:18
wendarmhall119: this is standard for all Extras apps18:18
wendarmhal119: we don't do any upgrades, just resubmissions18:19
mhall119wendar: ok, so all packages(even the lens) would need to be re-submitted?18:19
wendarmhall119: now, the author may resubmit what is essentially just a straight copy of the old app updated for the new release18:19
wendarmhall119: this allows for an easy "dropping off" effect of old apps where the author hasn't taken the trouble to make them work on the new release18:20
mhall119wendar: ok, so this proposal wouldn't change that, it just means that the ARB would have to handle updating the packaging every release18:20
wendarmhall119: right, this wouldn't change the policy18:20
ajmitchmhall119: I expect that from precise onwards, the lens API should be pretty stable?18:20
wendarmhall119: well, I'm suggesting the ARB wouldn't even have to handle much in the way of updating the packaging18:21
coolbhaviwendar, seems good enough keeping API changes in view like a new version based on old one18:21
wendarmhall119: if we treat each new release as "start over with the Lens"18:21
stgraber_ajmitch: thanks for the copy/paste18:21
mhall119ajmitch: I've been told that it won't change, under penalty of death18:21
wendarmhall119: that's good :)18:21
mhall119of course, they said that before they changed it last time too :)18:22
stgraber_so to answer the ARB time issue with my proposed solution, my feeling is that it'd actually be much faster than what we do at the moment18:22
wendarmainly, I'm looking for ways to mitigate the load on the ARB, and the "resubmit at each new Ubuntu release" is definitely one or them18:22
stgraber_currently we need to review a full package every time if not actually do one for them (in most cases ...)18:22
stgraber_with my proposal we could have something completely templated that we just copy/paste when we get the lens18:22
ajmitcha couple of small issues that I can see - need a single debian/copyright for the source package, and need to integrate build systems as lenses & scopes can be written in anything that talks dbus18:23
stgraber_and from that point on, adding a scope is just copying two files and adding a debian/control and debian/changelog entry18:23
ajmitchstgraber_: that's assuming they're just written in python, rather than compiled from vala18:23
mhall119ajmitch: can we limit this to just python lenses and scopes for the time being?18:23
wendarstgraber: yes, one of the things I mentioned when you were temporarily off IRC is that with your proposal scope submissions could take the form of branch merge proposals to the ARB branch for the Lens18:23
wendarstgraber: which would be nice and simple18:23
ajmitchmhall119: gladly18:23
ajmitchbut someone would need to explain to contributors why we only take certain scopes & not others18:24
wendarajmitch: the single debian/copyright file would list the copyrights for each author separately18:24
stgraber_correct, debian/copyright should be easy to do using DEP518:24
ajmitchwendar: right, easy to list them, someone has to do the work to put it together18:24
stgraber_so far all the lenses and scopes have been trivial python script, these are easy to deal with on the packaging side18:24
ajmitchwhether that be by some automated method18:24
wendarajmitch: indeed18:24
stgraber_I indeed expect any C lens/scope to be much harder though18:24
mhall119the vast, vast majority of community-developed lenses and scopes are python18:25
wendarajmitch: ah, that is a good point, we should talk with the pkg-me devs about getting lens/scope packaging into their automated tools18:25
mhall119in fact, I don't know of any that aren't18:25
wendar(not for Oneiric, but can help down the road)18:25
ajmitchmhall119: there are examples in vala18:26
mhall119ajmitch: yes, but we can reasonably assume that most will be in Python18:26
wendarstgraber: the lenses/scopes I've written have all been in vala, they're still pretty simple and straightforward18:26
ajmitchwendar: mhall119 has been working on getting his lens/scope stuff into quickly, so it helps on that end :)18:26
mhall119especially with Singlet + a Quickly template being in 12.0418:26
wendarstgraber: it's a good API18:26
stgraber(back from here)18:27
wendarso, if Quickly had an "add a new scope" option, that could make our lives really simple18:27
ajmitchso at the moment, we're mostly +1 on the proposal, for python lenses/scopes?18:27
mhall119wendar: which is technically possible18:27
wendarmhall119: yup18:27
wendarajmitch: yes, I'm in favor of stgraber's proposal18:28
wendarajmitch: we have some details to work out, but it's good overall18:28
mhall119an added benefit of stgraber's proposal is that it doesn't require any rules changes18:28
ajmitchmhall119: it'd be really nice to get unity to reload its list of lenses without reloading :)18:28
ajmitchwendar: great18:28
mhall119ajmitch: yeah, that's low on their priority list though, so unless someone outside of DX does it, it's not likely for 12.0418:28
wendarshould we carry it to a vote?18:28
stgraberajmitch: oh yeah, that one is really annoying ;)18:28
ajmitchwendar: might need to set #voters, but yeah18:29
mhall119ajmitch: I've got unity building locally, and trying to understand enough C++ to implement the fix myself, but don't count on it18:29
ajmitchmhall119: yeah, I took a brief walk through the code to see how possible it'd be18:29
ajmitchmaybe I need to sit down with thomi & have him explain it :)18:30
mhall119ajmitch: mhr3 was helping me, njpatel would be a good person to talk to as well18:30
wendar#vote To approve stgraber's proposal for handling Lenses and Scopes in ARB managed combined packages18:30
meetingologyPlease vote on: To approve stgraber's proposal for handling Lenses and Scopes in ARB managed combined packages18:30
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)18:30
meetingology+1 received from wendar18:30
meetingology+1 received from ajmitch18:30
meetingology+1 received from stgraber18:31
ajmitchcoolbhavi: still awake? :)18:31
coolbhavi+1 provided resubmission cycle doesnt have overloading effect18:31
meetingology+1 provided resubmission cycle doesnt have overloading effect received from coolbhavi18:31
meetingologyVoting ended on: To approve stgraber's proposal for handling Lenses and Scopes in ARB managed combined packages18:31
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:018:31
meetingologyMotion carried18:31
wendarWe can review how this went at the start of the Precise cycle, and decide if we need to make any changes.18:32
ajmitchok, now to take it to the TB list, should get it passed there quickly18:32
mhall119does this still need to go to the TB, since it's not a rule change?18:32
wendarajmitch: actually, since we aren't making any policy changes, they won't need to vote18:32
ajmitchwendar: even better18:32
wendarajmitch: but, I'll summarize and post to the TB list, so they know for the next meeting18:32
mhall119I propose we start with a single lens+scope combination to work out the kinks and get a package template, would you like to target Oneiric or Precise?18:33
wendarmhall119: we can start setting up the first repos this afternoon if you have time18:33
mhall119wendar: I do18:33
wendarmhall119: Oneiric for now18:33
wendarmhall119: so start with any Lenses that use the Oneiric APIs18:33
wendarthanks mhall119!18:34
mhall119wendar: I'll pick a couple of candidates, and send them to the ARB's mailing list?18:34
mhall119or should I submit them through MyApps?18:34
wendarmhall119: if you want to discuss which are most appropriate to start with, we can talk on the list or IRC18:34
stgraber_mhall119: look at the unity-lens-utilities one as an example18:35
wendarmhall119: but, if you're pretty certain, go ahead and submitt to MyApps18:35
stgraber_mhall119: it currently contains a lens and two scopes18:35
wendarmhall119: that way it's in the queue18:35
stgraber_mhall119: all of them in python and all of them nicely protected by apparmor18:35
mhall119stgraber_: that's already in USC isn't it?18:35
stgraber_mhall119: yep, that one is already in extras18:35
stgraber_mhall119: so you can just look at the branch and re-use for the others18:35
=== bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_
mhall119stgraber_: ok, so we'll use that as a packaging template, and I'll find a new candidate for our first run18:36
stgraber_mhall119: http://code.launchpad.net/~stgraber/+junk/arb-utilities-lens/18:36
coolbhavimhall119 I would be interested in testing lenses+scopes out in oneiric as I pointed out past week18:36
mhall119coolbhavi: check the onehundredscopes project on LP, there's a bunch of them there18:37
wendarcoolbhavi: great!18:37
coolbhavimhall119, sure will pull them this weekend and have a look. Thanks!18:38
wendara few quick other agenda items18:38
wendar[TOPIC] Policy check on QMuttNotifier (indicator, rather than stand-alone app)18:38
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Policy check on QMuttNotifier (indicator, rather than stand-alone app)
wendarI'm suggesting that we reject this one.18:39
mhall119thanks everyone for bearing with me and helping find a resolution on this18:39
ajmitchimo, indicators are fine - they're standalone enough18:39
wendarmhall119: thank you, and we look forward to seeing those Lenses and Scopes coming through :)18:39
mhall119so do I?18:39
ajmitchnot trying to be contrary, but they've got similar desktop integration requirements that lenses do18:39
mhall119:), not ?18:40
stgraber_I think indicators should be fine, as long as they live in /opt and just ship the required desktop file out of it and properly namespaced18:40
stgraber_obviously depending on exactly what the indicator does though18:41
wendarit says it requires konsole18:41
stgraber_oh, that sounds wrong ;)18:41
ajmitchit's because it pops up a terminal to load mutt in18:41
stgraber_sure but we have x-terminal-emulator for that18:41
wendarwhich violates our "no command-line apps" policy18:41
ajmitchnot sure how kde-dependent the rest of the code is, and if we're wanting to accept things for other desktops :)18:41
wendarthough, in an indirect way18:42
ajmitchvery indirect, the no command-line apps was mostly due to PATH18:42
wendarI brought it to discuss, because it's a bit of an edge case18:42
stgraber_well, our policy says we don't accept command line apps, this one isn't, it just calls one ;)18:42
ajmitchI think it's an edge case for a different reason - does the software centre separate things by desktop environment, or indicate somehow that it's for kde?18:43
wendaraye, we don't have a specific security requirement about launching other command-line apps from GUI apps18:43
wendarajmitch: not currently, no18:43
wendarIt just seems like the kind of thing Kubuntu should be reviewing18:43
wendarIf people would prefer, I can bounce it back with our new policy of requiring a PPA18:44
wendarso, the author would need to resubmit18:45
wendarbut, I didn't want to do that if there was no chance we'd ever accept it18:45
wendarit doesn't seem fair to ask the author for a bunch of work and then say "Sorry, we can't accept it"18:45
ajmitchright, I don't think we have any policy on derivatives, or if we should18:45
wendarIt currently doesn't even have build instructions, just bare source code.18:46
wendarI could also simply ask how heavily this depends on KDE18:47
coolbhaviwendar, then I m also a bit skeptical because the software centre doesnt categorize it under different DE's but we can have it in the description that its for kde. But is there an option to launch mutt without cli? havent tried it though18:47
wendarlike, if it's a KDE indicator, rather than a Unity indicator, and installing it would essentially pull in KDE as a dependency18:47
wendarthen, that would violate our policies about modifying low-level system components18:48
=== ramadas is now known as amachu
ajmitchwendar: I just built it, it doesn't pull in any KDE libs, just Qt18:49
wendarajmitch: did you install it? does it integrate with the Oneiric Unity indicators?18:50
ajmitchwendar: I haven't installed it, just tried running it in-place on precise18:50
coolbhavipeople sorry have to leave because m getting very sleepy18:50
ajmitchit complained about ~/.muttrc not existing & didn't get further than that18:50
wendarokay, thanks coolbhavi, we're just about done18:50
ajmitchcoolbhavi: ok, thanks for being here :)18:51
wendarSounds like the general consensus is that we could accept this.18:51
wendarSo, I'll go ahead and ask him to make the usual fixes.18:52
ajmitchif it's not going to break a normal desktop, it should be ok18:52
wendar[TOPIC] Policy check on EasyISO (filesystem mount/unmount utility)18:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Policy check on EasyISO (filesystem mount/unmount utility)
ajmitchthe author should probably check ~/.mutt/muttrc as well :)18:52
stgraberwendar: mount/unmount requires root and so gksudo => reject18:53
ajmitchthis is just for ISOs, can't it be done with FUSE?18:53
wendara quick grep shows that it's using fuseiso18:54
ajmitchso it doesn't look like it should need any root privileges in that case18:55
wendar[LINK] https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/655/18:55
wendarajmitch: I can't say that for sure until I do the full code review18:56
stgraberif it never uses root permissions, then I guess it's fine18:56
ajmitchwendar: it currently fails if fuseiso isn't installed18:56
wendarajmitch: that would mean fuseiso would be a package dependency18:56
ajmitchit's in universe18:57
wendarajmitch: that's okay, Extras are allowed to depend on universe18:57
wendarit's enabled by default18:58
ajmitchright, was just mentioning that it's at least packaged already :)18:58
brodercan't nautilus do something like that already?18:58
ajmitchsorry if I'm not making much sense, still waking up18:58
wendarmy main question was whether this was appropriate at all for Extras18:58
wendaras in, it's more of a filesystem tool than an "app"18:58
wendarwith the potential to interfere with other filesystem tools (like nautilus)18:59
wendarlike, what if there's some race condition on who mounts what when and where?19:00
brodergvfs can already open iso files and expose them through gvfs-fuse - is there more of a value add here than mounting the iso at an arbitrary path?19:00
ajmitchwhen I run the app, it looks extremely basic19:00
wendar"Apps should be useful or interesting to a general audience. "19:01
wendaris it?19:01
wendarWe're at the end of our time19:02
stgraberif gvfs takes care of the use case already, then there's not much point in the app19:02
stgraberother than making the feature more visible to the user19:02
ajmitchat a glance I think it's potentially useful for exposing it in an easy way19:02
wendarSounds like this will need more general discussion.19:03
wendarso, carry to the mailing list19:04
wendarone last thing19:04
wendar[TOPIC] General status of ARB queue19:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: General status of ARB queue
wendarWe're actually doing quite well.19:04
wendarOnly 20 apps in the queue.19:04
wendarof which, 5 are new19:04
wendarSome lingering issues for the MyApps developers:19:04
* ajmitch needs to catch up & push stuff to voting once little things like patching are sorted :)19:05
wendar- We need a way to list apps that are waiting for replys from the developer19:05
ajmitchdoes someone want to take ubuntu-tweak & reply to the feedback?19:05
wendar- We're waiting on the patch application that will allow us to drop apps that have already launched from the queue, instead of keeping them forever in Pending QA status.19:05
wendarajmitch: Can we switch back to only having reviewers "own" one app at a time?19:06
wendarajmitch: I'm running out of things to package.19:06
ajmitchwendar: of course19:06
wendarajmitch: which one are you currently working on?19:07
wendarcool, I'll leave that one19:07
ajmitchI don't want to be a blocker on anything else19:07
wendarI'll do a general mailing list post and make sure I'm not working over the top of anyone else.19:07
wendarI think once we clear out some of the backlog, we'll be in good shape19:08
wendarThe "new" submissions are pretty easy to tend in a couple of hours a week19:08
wendarso, the review shifts will take care of them19:08
wendarAnd, that's all.19:09
wendarajmitch: are you following up with dpitkin on the changes to see apps waiting for feedback?19:09
wendarajmitch: should I note that as an action item for you?19:10
ajmitchyes, it's on my weekend todo list19:10
wendarsweet, thanks!19:10
wendarAnd, thanks everybody!19:10
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Fri Feb 24 19:10:50 2012 UTC.19:10
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-24-18.02.moin.txt19:10
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-24-18.02.html19:10
wendarajmitch: I can look at ubuntu-tweak this afternoon19:12
ajmitchwendar: alright19:15
=== noy_ is now known as noy

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