[00:01] apparently today Google thinks I'm in Callow End - which is great, since I'm nowhere near it [00:01] and as far as I know have never been there [01:11] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam Q+A Videocasts Tomorrow! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/ubuntu-global-jam-qa-videocasts-tomorrow/ [07:11] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu California Walnut Creek Global Jam - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/ubuntu-california-walnut-creek-global-jam/ [07:46] morning all [07:48] morning [07:53] hello [08:11] [Jono Bacon] Good vs. Bad Trophies - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/good-vs-bad-trophies/ [08:12] morning all [08:27] Morning all === alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk [08:31] morning [08:32] http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/young-rewired-state-2012-an-update/ [08:40] Morning [08:45] bah waking up to crazy in the inbox [08:45] DELETE is a wonderful key [08:45] careful you don't get delete key finger czajkowski :) [08:46] czajkowski: I saw that crazy... people are weired [08:53] good morning..long time no me speak [08:55] danfish: looking forward to the weekend ? [08:56] danfish: How do [08:56] yup - however I've not been around for a few days [08:56] decided to play rubgy for the 1st time in 10 years and got a badly broken shoulder for my troubles [08:57] danfish: ooops :D [08:57] been in hospital having it fixed :( [08:57] Morning Ubuntarians :) [08:59] danfish: oh dear [09:00] I also have discovered I have an allergy to codeine, so pain relief is tricky [09:05] hi danfish, that sounds bad :( [09:09] AlanBell: not much fun, but more painful is the truly dreadful daytime TV..... [09:09] guess you won't make it to the rugger at the weekend then? [09:10] catching up on the news, ubuntu on android looks seriously cool - it's from the atrix isn;t it? [09:10] AlanBell: might still make the rugby. Just moving is painful at the moment but getting better every day [09:11] so I'll see how things are on Sunday morning [09:13] danfish: Hoep the recovery goes well, what have you been given instead of codeine [09:14] Hop even [09:14] Grr [09:14] HOPE [09:14] * DJones replaces the keyboard [09:23] DJones: thanks - anti-inflammatories and whisky ;) [09:24] the engineer sat next to me has a cold and reckons gargling brandy for 3 minutes last night cured him. [09:33] danfish: Heh, whisky always works [09:37] Happy Fix It Friday everyone! :D [09:44] good morning everyone [09:56] morning morning [09:56] morning mattt [09:57] sup brobostigon [09:58] mattt: nought much, just trying to wake up. and you? [10:02] brobostigon: just doing that work thing :D [10:03] :) [10:10] danfish: how are you planning to get to the rugger if you feel up to it? [10:11] [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Hour Dublin - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/02/24/ubuntu-hour-dublin-2/ [10:11] AlanBell: I was getting a lift anyway [10:14] the timing of this rugby game is terrible :-/ [10:14] all northampton's good players play for england [10:29] *grumble*] [10:29] -] [10:30] VM connection has wandered off so I'm having to tap my phone's connection [10:30] Not optimal [10:33] Anyone here been on any VMWare courses that they could recommend [10:33] ? [10:33] We use ESXi and want to implement a few sites with replication etc [10:33] So need to get full product, wondering if anyone has done any that they would recommend [10:33] ( to many !!! ) [10:40] diplo: last vmware coure i went on was for 3.5 lol [10:41] morning all [10:42] czajkowski: PROD!!!! Morning [10:42] Hi ho [10:43] davmor2: good morning my chirpy friend [10:43] MooDoo, Last time I looked at the products page of VMware there were maybe a dozen options [10:43] czajkowski: have a hug it's friday! [10:43] now 5 dozen options :( [10:43] yay [10:43] * czajkowski hugs davmor2 [10:43] bigcalm_lappy: why you on lappy still? [10:43] davmor2: throw me a cup of broadband. VM have snuffed it [10:43] Also, anyone in here know anyone who may run IBM RS/6000's ? [10:43] davmor2: connecting via my phone [10:44] bigcalm_lappy: sadtrombone.com [10:44] * MooDoo slaps davmor2 with a fish [10:44] :P [10:44] MooDoo: don't do that you'll upset the fish, morning dude [10:45] davmor2: morning mate [10:45] Hayley wants us to attend a wedding fair on Sunday. I hope there is a crèche for the men [10:47] bigcalm_lappy: make your own with taking DVD's of Top Gear and a laptop with you [10:47] :) [10:47] bigcalm_lappy: like the 'spouse chairs' in clothes shops? [10:48] bigcalm_lappy: As an excuse to not go, you could say it might give you hints about what wedding dress she might get, so it would be better if you don't go [10:48] Daviey: yep [10:48] Heh [10:49] I'm sure we'll both have a good time. I'm just playing into the male stereo type ;) [10:51] bigcalm_lappy: ensure your phone is fully charged and you nod and hmmmmmmm nice in all the right places. It's the wrong time of year to be attending funerals :D [10:53] Is there a right time to attend? [10:54] bigcalm_lappy: if you can last till spring, summer the flowers are cheaper ;) [10:59] Right [11:51] bigcalm_lappy: take your laptop to a coffee shop you know you want to ;) [11:51] Sadly McDonald's is closer [11:52] bigcalm_lappy: yeah but the coffee suck [11:55] I've had worse [11:55] * directhex has windows phone, and likes it. zomg! [11:56] :O [11:56] directhex: the crucial question of course.. can you get angry birds on it? [11:56] yes! [12:00] does it run mono apps? [12:01] no! the wp7 sdk supports html/js apps and a silverlight subset, afaik [12:03] heinz tomato soup with chilli is actually quite good [12:04] * czajkowski has 2 angry bird plush toys glaring at me today while I work [12:04] wp7 has some flaws, but it's a really nice mobile os. it's a better fit for my lifestyle than the n9 was [12:04] czajkowski: no they glares at you, because you are you not because you are working :P [12:04] czajkowski: don't pinch their eggs and you'll be safe [12:05] or put two blue parrots in cages. that angers them too [12:06] or send them to space [12:06] Subway lunch? [12:06] Don't mind if I do [12:06] subway means a walk. burger king lunch! [12:07] bigcalm_lappy: you don't want to eat in a subway have you seen what the drunks get up to in them [12:07] I've a red and yellow one [12:10] Red and yellow drunk? [12:10] Any lunch outside of home means a wee drive [12:11] Brum brum === dgjones is now known as DJones [12:22] http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-02-23/ Dell Streak \o/ [12:23] hah, thats brilliant [14:06] * Azelphur_ buys oil rush through desura, wonder if it's any good :D [14:07] AlanBell, i was wrong btw, Unity 3D can target WP7, and that's a product based on embedded Mono [14:07] AlanBell, many lulz were had when Microsoft Game Studios started shipping WP7 games with Mono inside [14:16] * popey hugs chrisccoulson for http://paste.ubuntu.com/855375/ [14:16] :) [14:16] \o/ [14:16] popey, did you see the screenshot too? [14:17] https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/173046579161346048/photo/1 [14:18] no [14:18] brilliant [14:19] chrisccoulson: Brilliant solution [14:19] heh :) [14:19] * penguin42 assumes that is a picture of a kitty..... [14:19] chrisccoulson++ [14:19] chrisccoulson, is that pushed to the archive? [14:20] chrisccoulson: It's a shame you didn't call it pussyview which may have satisfied both sides [14:20] directhex, not atm. somebody suggested that i might start a new world war if i did that ;) [14:20] penguin42, lol [14:21] chrisccoulson, do it now or i'll sponsor the upload immediately [14:21] lol [14:21] ha [14:21] not kidding! [14:22] * penguin42 waits for chrisccoulson's solution to bible apps [14:22] i am happy to upload bible apps as long as they are modular enough to handle any holy book [14:23] chrisccoulson: someone has pointed out to me that it should not be kitteh's. [14:23] no apostrophe [14:23] oh, good catch ;) [14:23] dpkg-source: info: applying pornview_0.2pre1-11ubuntu2.diff.gz [14:23] now then now then... [14:24] chrisccoulson: hi, I just realised/remembered that you were involved with chromium... are there any updates/ideas for the translation templates for chromium in Launchpad -- since fta seems to be gone...? [14:24] sagaci, oh, chromium is in pretty bad shape. nobody is maintaining it at all [14:25] is that a debian or ubuntu issue? [14:25] it's a "there is nobody motivated enough about it in ubuntu" issue ;) [14:25] ah righteo then [14:26] also it's a big jiggly mess [14:27] hence the chromium ppa, having no updates for months. [14:27] indeed. i would actually rather maintain 4 more versions of firefox than maintain chromium [14:27] hence i am using google-chrome-unstable now. [14:27] Laney: ping? [14:28] I'd personally prefer to use chromium but I've just been using chrome of late [14:28] BUNDLE THE WORLD! NO TIME TO EXPLAIN GET IN THE CAR! [14:28] big lion? [14:28] sagaci: agreed, same here. [14:28] RWAR! [14:28] autofoo is for losers. let's build our own build system! with blackjack! and hookers! [14:30] lol @ https://twitter.com/#!/davmor2/status/173051931181322240 [14:30] perhaps it's impossible to make everybody happy ;) [14:31] chrisccoulson: is it still for one handed browsing? (presumably because you are stroking a kitteh with the other hand) [14:31] lol [14:32] chrisccoulson: everyone loves the cloud and it's the in thing call it cloudview :D [14:32] PornView is an image and movie viewer/manager with thumbnail previews. Additional features includes thumbnail caching, directory tree views, adjustable zoom, and fullscreen view. Slideshows allow for unattended presentation of images for hands-free viewing. Pornview is written using GTK+. [14:34] What an Interesting conversation to come in on :-) [14:34] hi TheOpenSourcerer [14:34] Hi AlanBell [14:34] Long time no speaky ;-) [14:34] * AlanBell dials the speakyphone [14:37] PawnView, or PictureView [14:38] sagaci: PawnView would get the financial watchdogs investigating it [14:43] prawnview [14:45] Anyone recommend a backup device for a SMB that they can take offsite, don't want tapes/or cloud based/rsync set up [14:45] Standard usb hard disc, or something like the Dell RD1000 ? [14:45] pawnview [14:45] lawnview [14:48] chrisccoulson: I think we are missing the obviousness of prawnview [14:48] lol [14:50] well the oneiric alpha iso doesn't work at all... not really allowed to complain about that though really [15:15] aww ye, native Linux games on my machine...turn all the graphics to max \o/ [15:17] Azelphur_: you use desura much? [15:18] popey: yea I bought it through desura :) [15:18] I like Desura :p [15:18] yeah, saw that [15:19] I havn't used it too much yet, but I can certainly see it has potential [15:20] yeah [15:20] popey: wonder if they are going to implement something ala steam friends [15:23] i expect so [15:27] hopefully without all the terrible bits of steam friends though [15:29] This lack of broadband is giving me the shakes [15:29] i have to run steam on my phone just to be able to talk to people on my steam friends list when i'm not on windows... such a pain. don't need another one of them [15:29] Or is that the coffee? [15:29] haha weird, oil rush makes cairo dock crash [15:29] gord that's a bad thing, however I HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU :P [15:30] gord my friend has reverse engineered the protocol on the steam mobile client and has a pidgin protocol plugin available. [15:30] Azelphur_, cool, get them to make a telepathy version [15:30] *shrug* he's a pidgin person, and empathy can load libpurple plugins anyway I believe? [15:31] i have no idea [15:32] bigcalm[xoom]: pretty sure you are still meant to be working or have you just given up on that :D [15:32] * daubers needs 100cc of coffee [15:32] STAT [15:32] !info telepathy-haze [15:32] telepathy-haze (source: telepathy-haze): Telepathy connection manager that uses libpurple. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.0-1 (oneiric), package size 75 kB, installed size 320 kB [15:32] * gord thinks we may lose the patient [15:32] gord ^ :D [15:32] Azelphur_, and what libpurple do i need? [15:33] No idea really, I just built it against pidgin since I'm a pidgin user [15:33] http://code.google.com/p/pidgin-opensteamworks/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsteam-mobile [15:34] gcc -I/home/azelphur/Code/pidgin/pidgin-2.10.0/libpurple/ -I/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/glib-2.0/include/ -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/include/purple-2 -I/usr/include/json-glib-1.0 -lglib-2.0 -lpurple -I. -pipe *.c -fPIC -DPIC -ljson-glib-1.0 -shared -o libsteam.so [15:34] is the line I used to build it [15:35] :p [15:35] very early in development obviously, but it works and I'm using it [15:36] davmor2: I am implementing oauth2 for an api im writing. Bits can be done, tricky without a net connection though [15:37] Azelphur_, ah not in a released version, shame [15:37] bigcalm[xoom]: still no T'interweb then [15:38] gord nothing besides the source no, but still, it's working :) [15:38] so, it's a good alternative for you when he starts building I guess [15:38] I need to store a hashed password in a table. What's the recommended algorithm for this? Md5, sha1, other? [15:38] i want a ppa :) [15:38] want fries with that? :P [15:39] bigcalm[xoom], rot 13 [15:40] davmor2: I guess vm are having trouble fixing it. They need to do it before end of school or they will have a lot more unhappy custom on the phone [15:40] gord: lol [15:40] bigcalm[xoom]: only one [15:41] bigcalm[xoom], i think md5 is fine right now, but sha2 has more legs, sha1 is depreciated [15:41] Oh T-Mobile, don't you start [15:42] davmor2: only one what? [15:42] gord: one can google md5 hashes and get surprising results [15:43] md5decrypter.co.uk [15:43] bigcalm[xoom]|: seed it [15:43] I just saw the unhappy custom on the phone and not the lot more bit ;) [15:43] well md5 has a smaller digest size, so that is to be expected [15:43] anything is vulnerable to rainbow tables, so if you're concerned use a seed [15:43] Ta [15:44] I just tried to google from my work station :( [15:48] bigcalm[xoom]|: Can you say D'oh!!!!!!!!! [15:49] I can grumble [15:49] bigcalm[xoom]|: Can you say shuggin' fashin', shuggin' fashin', Dick Dastardly! [15:50] bigcalm[xoom]|: is it just net or everything? [15:51] Just net. Tv and phone are ok [15:53] bigcalm[xoom]|: You mustn't just store the hash - add some form of salt [15:54] bigcalm[xoom]|: There are now enough md5/sha's of common passwords on the net to make the easiest way to check them to google the hash [15:55] That's what I eluded to [16:01] doesn't one normally elude *from* (or simply elude)? [16:01] [16:02] BigRedS: I've never heard someone refer to eluding from [16:03] no, but eluding definitely doesn't normally happen to [16:05] mgdm: HELLO!!!!!!!! [16:10] Humf [16:22] Laney: do you want me to do anything for that Pandoc thing (be it request a backport or whatever) and if so where? [16:23] mgdm: I need to ask Jonas to update it in Debian [16:23] you could do that if you like [16:23] is that more than just 'emal and go "can you update it please?"' [16:24] nein [16:24] you could file it as a wishlist bug [16:24] OK [16:24] I shall do that [16:48] Silly T-Mobile is silly [16:55] Happy Friday everyone [17:32] AlanBell: which mailing list is going potty at the mo? (seen your tweets) [17:33] danfish: I tweeted a link to it :) [17:39] AlanBell: oh yeah. thanks [17:44] * danfish has a look then steps hastily back [18:07] chrisccoulson: did kittyview hit the archives yet? [18:19] AlanBell: I think you'll find we agreed on prawnview to not offend the dog owners and cat hating czajkowski [18:19] oh, can I suggest chickenview then? [18:20] wtf [18:20] czajkowski hates cats? I knew there was something *wrong* about her... :-/ [18:20] how can you hate cats and be on the Internet? [18:20] AlanBell: might offend the battery farmed chickens if they see free ones ;) [18:22] hmm i think i just found the mailing list thing you were talking about earlier [18:27] OP has a point. the dash has a really nasty habit of finding things you don't want people to see at the exact time they happen to be watching over your shoulder. [18:32] yes, the adverts should not be in the apps lens [18:33] not just adverts. remember that screenshot where the guy had loads of torrents in the dash? [18:34] http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/717 [18:34] well ok, one [18:34] but you get the idea [18:34] moo [18:35] ali1234: this is zeitgeist, it tracks what you do and is according to some people a good idea [18:35] i know [18:35] i turned it off [18:36] evening all [18:36] :) [18:36] but i'm an expert [18:36] 26th April for 12.04 release right [18:36] I don't think I have ever seen it do something usefull [18:36] i am trying to get it mentioned in my local community partnership magazine [18:37] yes zleap [18:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule [18:37] ali1234: you can just use the privacy tool [18:37] yes, that's what i did [18:37] blacklist * [18:37] ok ty, this should go in the April issue, by whichj time i may have this computer group up and running, and may be try and see if any young people want a release party :D [18:38] or a demo event at the may dc/Lug meet [18:38] excellent zleap :) [18:38] :) [18:39] youth service are waiting on references [18:39] more burocratic nonsense basically [19:13] [Jono Bacon] Reminder: Ubuntu Global Jam Video Q+A Coming Up! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/reminder-ubuntu-global-jam-video-qa-coming-up/ [19:23] Has anybody tried this gnome2 fallback mode for 12.04 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1928350 [19:24] no, but i assume it's the new port of gnome-panel to gtk3? [19:24] (or maybe it still uses gtk2) [19:24] * DJones loads up virtualbox [19:26] i really hate forums that don't let you see images unless you log in [19:27] or download files [19:29] Looking through the thread, "It's Gnome 3 that's skinned to look like Gnome 2" [19:29] oh that. [19:29] awful [19:29] :/ [19:29] you can't move the panel around [19:29] you can't do anything useful with the second monitor [19:30] ok they won't put inthe release date for ubuntu 12.04 as aparenly it won;t mean much to most people [19:30] it's basically "gnome 2 if you configured it to be as much like gnome shell as possible and only have 1 monitor" [19:31] there is a way to run gnome panel in gtk3/12.04 though, supposedly [19:31] If your after multi monitor support, XFCE is good :D [19:32] no it isn't [19:32] * Azelphur_ is a quad monitor user [19:32] so will keep trying places, time to print out more posters and put ubuntu stickers in random places :D [19:32] I used to like XFCE, now just don't seem to [19:34] all the standard xfce applications are years out of date [19:34] i'm talking about the video player, the terminal, and the file manager [19:34] and if i use the gnome ones instead, i can't configure anything properly [19:35] I use most gnome things instead, nautilus and totem :) === moha is now known as moha19860314 [19:36] KDE and gnome at least share most settings through xdg [19:36] run a gnome app in kde, it looks like kde [19:36] run a kde ap in gnome, it looks like gnome [19:36] run a gnome or kde app in xfce, it looks like a mess [19:36] hehe [19:36] because xfce is horribly out of date and doesn't support anything like that [19:36] my apps are themed fine [19:37] show a screenshot, i bet i can find at least 3 problems with the themeing [19:37] themes are not everything.... better to have a mismatched theme, but with the correct functionality [19:37] i disagree [19:37] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-08-030714_3840x1200_scrot.png [19:38] ... [19:38] you only have 1 program running [19:38] and no panels [19:38] Hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A#! [19:39] ali1234: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-24-193905_874x632_scrot.png [19:39] o_O [19:40] the drop "shadow" on those radio buttons is a crime [19:40] that's more the specific theme I've chosen rather than an issue in XFCE :) [19:41] the text on the frames appears to be in a totally different font for some reason [19:41] yes, well if you pick a theme that's hideous to start with it's kind of hard to notice when it breaks i guess :) [19:41] ali1234: *shrug* It's the only theme that actually uses black as a base colour I could find [19:42] I dunno why everybody insists on using bright colors for background [19:42] because it's much easier to read [19:42] ali1234: nope [19:42] unless you're a cave-dweller :) [19:43] ali1234: whites more intensive on your eyes, white is more of a highlight color, while black is null, void [19:43] black backgrounds should be the norm, white is for things of actual relevance (eg text) [19:44] plus it looks cool because it totally matches my monitors. :D [19:44] so, on your first screenshot, why is the window title text much bigger than the font used inside the windows? [19:45] the kerning is also terrible [19:45] Pid ginView lol [19:45] because I specifically set the font size lower in pidgin to squeeze more text in [19:45] ali1234: haha, my little window switcher to manage the madness :P [19:45] on the menus? [19:45] in the pidgin menus, yes [19:45] Don't know if its the same for monitors as it is for projectors, I'm always advised that the bext colours for reading on a projector are yellow text on a blue background [19:46] so why don't you make the titlebar text smaller to match it? [19:46] how can you even look at that without getting annoyed? [19:46] But being honest, to me, it looks awefull [19:46] ali1234: pretty fine, no reason that window title bars should have the same font size as the content :P [19:47] * hamitron doesn't in KDE either [19:47] moving on... [19:47] hehe [19:47] why is the gap between names in the nicklist bigger than the height of the actual nicks? [19:48] not sure what you mean by that [19:48] in..? [19:48] "26 people in room" [19:48] then a list of nicks [19:48] Chanserv, Edge, ... [19:48] why is the gap between the bottom of the "C" and the top of "E" so big? [19:49] i don't even know how you could have configured that [19:49] *shrug* I think perhaps that's derived by the theme again [19:49] It's just a standard gtk widget [19:49] distance between nicks shoulw be the same as the distance between the messages [19:50] *Shrug* could probably squeeze one or two extra nicks in the list [19:50] * jacobw snuggles irssi [19:50] jacobw: irssi can't do horizontal tiling :( [19:50] purely for aesthetic reasons [19:50] * Azelphur_ can see all the things [19:51] sure it can, or rather, tmux can :) [19:51] jacobw: would require running like 15 instances of irssi in some really weird setup [19:51] yeah, it wouldn't work [19:51] it would be awful [19:51] byobu-tmux ftw [19:52] you want to type in window 13? sure, just press ctrl-a ctrl-n 13 times! [19:52] jacobw: not being able to tile IRC was one of my major gripes when I switched from windows, it's what I came up with to solve it :P [19:52] haha [19:52] i'm glad byobu uses tmux now [19:52] tmux is for people who think clicking in a window is too easy [19:52] well, it is :p [19:53] screen is for people who need to run a long running command on a remote server and don't want it to get killed by a hang up [19:53] well, i changed back to byobu-screen on my vps, as byobu-tmux was ram and cpu hungry. [19:54] tmux also doesn't support -D [19:54] which is the most useful screen option ever [19:54] byobu-tmux alone, used %20 ram, not acceptable. [19:54] since it allows you to automatically run a session inside any context and then remotely connect to it later [19:55] ali1234: you can disconnect from byobu-tmux and reconnect [19:55] byobu-screen uses basiclly nothing measurable. [19:55] you can't disconnect from it until it is already running [19:56] i think it's a different switch actually [19:56] ah -d -m [19:57] eg put "while 1; do screen -d -m; done" in your gnome-session startup [19:57] you are now able to ssh into the machine and access a shell inside the X11 security context [19:58] actually don't do that, you'll get millions of screens :) [19:59] you need -D -m, which doesn't fork [19:59] so i was half right [19:59]