[00:01] <penguin42> apparently today Google thinks I'm in Callow End - which is great, since I'm nowhere near it
[00:01] <penguin42> and as far as I know have never been there
[01:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam Q+A Videocasts Tomorrow! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/ubuntu-global-jam-qa-videocasts-tomorrow/
[07:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu California Walnut Creek Global Jam - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/ubuntu-california-walnut-creek-global-jam/
[07:46] <popey> morning all
[07:48] <AlanBell> morning
[07:53] <gordonjcp> hello
[08:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Good vs. Bad Trophies - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/good-vs-bad-trophies/
[08:12] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:27] <diplo> Morning all
[08:31] <czajkowski> morning
[08:32] <AlanBell> http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/young-rewired-state-2012-an-update/
[08:40] <daubers> Morning
[08:45] <czajkowski> bah waking up to crazy in the inbox
[08:45] <czajkowski> DELETE is a wonderful key
[08:45] <MooDoo> careful you don't get delete key finger czajkowski :)
[08:46] <daubers> czajkowski: I saw that crazy... people are weired
[08:53] <danfish> good morning..long time no me speak
[08:55] <czajkowski> danfish: looking forward to the weekend ?
[08:56] <daubers> danfish: How do
[08:56] <danfish> yup - however I've not been around for a few days
[08:56] <danfish> decided to play rubgy for the 1st time in 10 years and got a badly broken shoulder for my troubles
[08:57] <MooDoo> danfish: ooops :D
[08:57] <danfish> been in hospital having it fixed :(
[08:57] <n1md4> Morning Ubuntarians :)
[08:59] <czajkowski> danfish: oh dear
[09:00] <danfish> I also have discovered I have an allergy to codeine, so pain relief is tricky
[09:05] <AlanBell> hi danfish, that sounds bad :(
[09:09] <danfish> AlanBell: not much fun, but more painful is the truly dreadful daytime TV.....
[09:09] <AlanBell> guess you won't make it to the rugger at the weekend then?
[09:10] <danfish> catching up on the news, ubuntu on android looks seriously cool - it's from the atrix isn;t it?
[09:10] <danfish> AlanBell: might still make the rugby. Just moving is painful at the moment but getting better every day
[09:11] <danfish> so I'll see how things are on Sunday morning
[09:13] <DJones> danfish: Hoep the recovery goes well, what have you been given instead of codeine
[09:14] <DJones> Hop even
[09:14] <DJones> Grr
[09:14] <DJones> HOPE
[09:14]  * DJones replaces the keyboard
[09:23] <danfish> DJones: thanks - anti-inflammatories and whisky ;)
[09:24] <iclebyte> the engineer sat next to me has a cold and reckons gargling brandy for 3 minutes last night cured him.
[09:33] <DJones> danfish: Heh, whisky always works
[09:37] <JamesTait> Happy Fix It Friday everyone! :D
[09:44] <brobostigon> good morning everyone
[09:56] <mattt> morning morning
[09:56] <brobostigon> morning mattt
[09:57] <mattt> sup brobostigon
[09:58] <brobostigon> mattt: nought much, just trying to wake up. and you?
[10:02] <mattt> brobostigon: just doing that work thing :D
[10:03] <brobostigon> :)
[10:10] <AlanBell> danfish: how are you planning to get to the rugger if you feel up to it?
[10:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Hour Dublin - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/02/24/ubuntu-hour-dublin-2/
[10:11] <danfish> AlanBell: I was getting a lift anyway
[10:14] <mattt> the timing of this rugby game is terrible :-/
[10:14] <mattt> all northampton's good players play for england
[10:29] <bigcalm_lappy> *grumble*]
[10:29] <bigcalm_lappy> -]
[10:30] <bigcalm_lappy> VM connection has wandered off so I'm having to tap my phone's connection
[10:30] <bigcalm_lappy> Not optimal
[10:33] <diplo> Anyone here been on any VMWare courses that they could recommend
[10:33] <diplo> ?
[10:33] <diplo> We use ESXi and want to implement a few sites with replication etc
[10:33] <diplo> So need to get full product, wondering if anyone has done any that they would recommend
[10:33] <diplo> ( to many !!! )
[10:40] <MooDoo> diplo: last vmware coure i went on was for 3.5 lol
[10:41] <davmor2> morning all
[10:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!! Morning
[10:42] <bigcalm_lappy> Hi ho
[10:43] <czajkowski> davmor2: good morning my chirpy friend
[10:43] <diplo> MooDoo, Last time I looked at the products page of VMware there were maybe a dozen options
[10:43] <davmor2> czajkowski: have a hug it's friday!
[10:43] <diplo> now 5 dozen options :(
[10:43] <czajkowski> yay
[10:43]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
[10:43] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: why you on lappy still?
[10:43] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: throw me a cup of broadband. VM have snuffed it
[10:43] <diplo> Also, anyone in here know anyone who may run IBM RS/6000's ?
[10:43] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: connecting via my phone
[10:44] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: sadtrombone.com
[10:44]  * MooDoo slaps davmor2 with a fish
[10:44] <bigcalm_lappy> :P
[10:44] <davmor2> MooDoo: don't do that you'll upset the fish, morning dude
[10:45] <MooDoo> davmor2: morning mate
[10:45] <bigcalm_lappy> Hayley wants us to attend a wedding fair on Sunday. I hope there is a crèche for the men
[10:47] <Myrtti> bigcalm_lappy: make your own with taking DVD's of Top Gear and a laptop with you
[10:47] <bigcalm_lappy> :)
[10:47] <Daviey> bigcalm_lappy: like the 'spouse chairs' in clothes shops?
[10:48] <dgjones> bigcalm_lappy: As an excuse to not go, you could say it might give you hints about what wedding dress she might get, so it would be better if you don't go
[10:48] <bigcalm_lappy> Daviey: yep
[10:48] <bigcalm_lappy> Heh
[10:49] <bigcalm_lappy> I'm sure we'll both have a good time. I'm just playing into the male stereo type ;)
[10:51] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: ensure your phone is fully charged and you nod and hmmmmmmm nice in all the right places.  It's the wrong time of year to be attending funerals :D
[10:53] <bigcalm_lappy> Is there a right time to attend?
[10:54] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: if you can last till spring, summer the flowers are cheaper ;)
[10:59] <bigcalm_lappy> Right
[11:51] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: take your laptop to a coffee shop you know you want to ;)
[11:51] <bigcalm_lappy> Sadly McDonald's is closer
[11:52] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: yeah but the coffee suck
[11:55] <bigcalm_lappy> I've had worse
[11:55]  * directhex has windows phone, and likes it. zomg!
[11:56] <bigcalm_lappy> :O
[11:56] <popey> directhex: the crucial question of course.. can you get angry birds on it?
[11:56] <directhex> yes!
[12:00] <AlanBell> does it run mono apps?
[12:01] <directhex> no! the wp7 sdk supports html/js apps and a silverlight subset, afaik
[12:03] <AlanBell> heinz tomato soup with chilli is actually quite good
[12:04]  * czajkowski has 2 angry bird plush toys glaring at me today while I work 
[12:04] <directhex> wp7 has some flaws, but it's a really nice mobile os. it's a better fit for my lifestyle than the n9 was
[12:04] <davmor2> czajkowski: no they glares at you, because you are you not because you are working :P
[12:04] <bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: don't pinch their eggs and you'll be safe
[12:05] <directhex> or put two blue parrots in cages. that angers them too
[12:06] <directhex> or send them to space
[12:06] <bigcalm_lappy> Subway lunch?
[12:06] <bigcalm_lappy> Don't mind if I do
[12:06] <directhex> subway means a walk. burger king lunch!
[12:07] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: you don't want to eat in a subway have you seen what the drunks get up to in them
[12:07] <czajkowski> I've a red and yellow one
[12:10] <bigcalm_lappy> Red and yellow drunk?
[12:10] <bigcalm_lappy> Any lunch outside of home means a wee drive
[12:11] <bigcalm_lappy> Brum brum
[12:22] <AlanBell> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-02-23/ Dell Streak \o/
[12:23] <popey> hah, thats brilliant
[14:06]  * Azelphur_ buys oil rush through desura, wonder if it's any good :D
[14:07] <directhex> AlanBell, i was wrong btw, Unity 3D can target WP7, and that's a product based on embedded Mono
[14:07] <directhex> AlanBell, many lulz were had when Microsoft Game Studios started shipping WP7 games with Mono inside
[14:16]  * popey hugs chrisccoulson  for http://paste.ubuntu.com/855375/
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> :)
[14:16] <AlanBell> \o/
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> popey, did you see the screenshot too?
[14:17] <chrisccoulson> https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/173046579161346048/photo/1
[14:18] <popey> no
[14:18] <popey> brilliant
[14:19] <penguin42> chrisccoulson: Brilliant solution
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[14:19]  * penguin42 assumes that is a picture of a kitty.....
[14:19] <directhex> chrisccoulson++
[14:19] <directhex> chrisccoulson, is that pushed to the archive?
[14:20] <penguin42> chrisccoulson: It's a shame you didn't call it pussyview which may have satisfied both sides
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> directhex, not atm. somebody suggested that i might start a new world war if i did that ;)
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> penguin42, lol
[14:21] <directhex> chrisccoulson, do it now or i'll sponsor the upload immediately
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> lol
[14:21] <sagaci> ha
[14:21] <directhex> not kidding!
[14:22]  * penguin42 waits for chrisccoulson's solution to bible apps
[14:22] <directhex> i am happy to upload bible apps as long as they are modular enough to handle any holy book
[14:23] <popey> chrisccoulson: someone has pointed out to me that it should not be kitteh's.
[14:23] <popey> no apostrophe
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> oh, good catch ;)
[14:23] <directhex> dpkg-source: info: applying pornview_0.2pre1-11ubuntu2.diff.gz
[14:23] <directhex> now then now then...
[14:24] <sagaci> chrisccoulson: hi, I just realised/remembered that you were involved with chromium... are there any updates/ideas for the translation templates for chromium in Launchpad -- since fta seems to be gone...?
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> sagaci, oh, chromium is in pretty bad shape. nobody is maintaining it at all
[14:25] <sagaci> is that a debian or ubuntu issue?
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> it's a "there is nobody motivated enough about it in ubuntu" issue ;)
[14:25] <sagaci> ah righteo then
[14:26] <directhex> also it's a big jiggly mess
[14:27] <brobostigon> hence the chromium ppa, having no updates for months.
[14:27] <chrisccoulson> indeed. i would actually rather maintain 4 more versions of firefox than maintain chromium
[14:27] <brobostigon> hence i am using google-chrome-unstable now.
[14:27] <mgdm> Laney: ping?
[14:28] <sagaci> I'd personally prefer to use chromium but I've just been using chrome of late
[14:28] <directhex> BUNDLE THE WORLD! NO TIME TO EXPLAIN GET IN THE CAR!
[14:28] <sagaci> big lion?
[14:28] <brobostigon> sagaci: agreed, same here.
[14:28] <popey> RWAR!
[14:28] <directhex> autofoo is for losers. let's build our own build system! with blackjack! and hookers!
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> lol @ https://twitter.com/#!/davmor2/status/173051931181322240
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> perhaps it's impossible to make everybody happy ;)
[14:31] <AlanBell> chrisccoulson: is it still for one handed browsing? (presumably because you are stroking a kitteh with the other hand)
[14:31] <chrisccoulson> lol
[14:32] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: everyone loves the cloud and it's the in thing call it cloudview :D
[14:32] <AlanBell> PornView is an image and movie viewer/manager with thumbnail previews. Additional features includes thumbnail caching, directory tree views, adjustable zoom, and fullscreen view. Slideshows allow for unattended presentation of images for hands-free viewing. Pornview is written using GTK+.
[14:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> What an Interesting conversation to come in on :-)
[14:34] <AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
[14:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell
[14:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Long time no speaky ;-)
[14:34]  * AlanBell dials the speakyphone
[14:37] <sagaci> PawnView, or PictureView
[14:38] <DJones> sagaci: PawnView would get the financial watchdogs investigating it
[14:43] <directhex> prawnview
[14:45] <diplo> Anyone recommend a backup device for a SMB that they can take offsite, don't want tapes/or cloud based/rsync set up
[14:45] <diplo> Standard usb hard disc, or something like the Dell RD1000 ?
[14:45] <popey> pawnview
[14:45] <popey> lawnview
[14:48] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: I think we are missing the obviousness of prawnview
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> lol
[14:50] <gord> well the oneiric alpha iso doesn't work at all... not really allowed to complain about that though really
[15:15] <Azelphur_> aww ye, native Linux games on my machine...turn all the graphics to max \o/
[15:17] <popey> Azelphur_: you use desura much?
[15:18] <Azelphur_> popey: yea I bought it through desura :)
[15:18] <Azelphur_> I like Desura :p
[15:18] <popey> yeah, saw that
[15:19] <Azelphur_> I havn't used it too much yet, but I can certainly see it has potential
[15:20] <popey> yeah
[15:20] <Azelphur_> popey: wonder if they are going to implement something ala steam friends
[15:23] <popey> i expect so
[15:27] <Azelphur_> hopefully without all the terrible bits of steam friends though
[15:29] <bigcalm[xoom]> This lack of broadband is giving me the shakes
[15:29] <gord> i have to run steam on my phone just to be able to talk to people on my steam friends list when i'm not on windows... such a pain. don't need another one of them
[15:29] <bigcalm[xoom]> Or is that the coffee?
[15:29] <Azelphur_> haha weird, oil rush makes cairo dock crash
[15:29] <Azelphur_> gord that's a bad thing, however I HAVE GOOD NEWS FOR YOU :P
[15:30] <Azelphur_> gord my friend has reverse engineered the protocol on the steam mobile client and has a pidgin protocol plugin available.
[15:30] <gord> Azelphur_, cool, get them to make a telepathy version
[15:30] <Azelphur_> *shrug* he's a pidgin person, and empathy can load libpurple plugins anyway I believe?
[15:31] <gord> i have no idea
[15:32] <davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: pretty sure you are still meant to be working or have you just given up on that :D
[15:32]  * daubers needs 100cc of coffee
[15:32] <daubers> STAT
[15:32] <Azelphur_> !info telepathy-haze
[15:32]  * gord thinks we may lose the patient
[15:32] <Azelphur_> gord ^ :D
[15:32] <gord> Azelphur_, and what libpurple do i need?
[15:33] <Azelphur_> No idea really, I just built it against pidgin since I'm a pidgin user
[15:33] <Azelphur_> http://code.google.com/p/pidgin-opensteamworks/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsteam-mobile
[15:34] <Azelphur_> gcc -I/home/azelphur/Code/pidgin/pidgin-2.10.0/libpurple/ -I/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/glib-2.0/include/ -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/include/purple-2 -I/usr/include/json-glib-1.0 -lglib-2.0 -lpurple -I. -pipe *.c -fPIC -DPIC -ljson-glib-1.0 -shared -o libsteam.so
[15:34] <Azelphur_> is the line I used to build it
[15:35] <diplo> :p
[15:35] <Azelphur_> very early in development obviously, but it works and I'm using it
[15:36] <bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2: I am implementing oauth2 for an api im writing. Bits can be done, tricky without a net connection though
[15:37] <gord> Azelphur_, ah not in a released version, shame
[15:37] <davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: still no T'interweb then
[15:38] <Azelphur_> gord nothing besides the source no, but still, it's working :)
[15:38] <Azelphur_> so, it's a good alternative for you when he starts building I guess
[15:38] <bigcalm[xoom]> I need to store a hashed password in a table. What's the recommended algorithm for this? Md5, sha1, other?
[15:38] <gord> i want a ppa :)
[15:38] <Azelphur_> want fries with that? :P
[15:39] <gord> bigcalm[xoom], rot 13
[15:40] <bigcalm[xoom]> davmor2:  I guess vm are having trouble fixing it. They need to do it before end of school or they will have a lot more unhappy custom on the phone
[15:40] <bigcalm[xoom]> gord: lol
[15:40] <davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]: only one
[15:41] <gord> bigcalm[xoom], i think md5 is fine right now, but sha2 has more legs, sha1 is depreciated
[15:41] <bigcalm[xoom]|> Oh T-Mobile, don't you start
[15:42] <bigcalm[xoom]|> davmor2: only one what?
[15:42] <bigcalm[xoom]|> gord: one can google md5 hashes and get surprising results
[15:43] <diplo> md5decrypter.co.uk
[15:43] <BigRedS> bigcalm[xoom]|: seed it
[15:43] <davmor2> I just saw the unhappy custom on the phone  and not the lot more bit ;)
[15:43] <gord> well md5 has a smaller digest size, so that is to be expected
[15:43] <BigRedS> anything is vulnerable to rainbow tables, so if you're concerned use a seed
[15:43] <bigcalm[xoom]|> Ta
[15:44] <bigcalm[xoom]|> I just tried to google from my work station :(
[15:48] <davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: Can you say D'oh!!!!!!!!!
[15:49] <bigcalm[xoom]|> I can grumble
[15:49] <davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: Can you say shuggin' fashin', shuggin' fashin', Dick Dastardly!
[15:50] <davmor2> bigcalm[xoom]|: is it just net or everything?
[15:51] <bigcalm[xoom]|> Just net. Tv and phone are ok
[15:53] <penguin42> bigcalm[xoom]|: You mustn't just store the hash - add some form of salt
[15:54] <penguin42> bigcalm[xoom]|: There are now enough md5/sha's of common passwords on the net to make the easiest way to check them to google the hash
[15:55] <bigcalm[xoom]|> That's what I eluded to
[16:01] <BigRedS> doesn't one normally elude *from* (or simply elude)?

[16:02] <penguin42> BigRedS: I've never heard someone refer to eluding from
[16:03] <BigRedS> no, but eluding definitely doesn't normally happen to
[16:05] <Laney> mgdm: HELLO!!!!!!!!
[16:10] <bigcalm[xoom]> Humf
[16:22] <mgdm> Laney: do you want me to do anything for that Pandoc thing (be it request a backport or whatever) and if so where?
[16:23] <Laney> mgdm: I need to ask Jonas to update it in Debian
[16:23] <Laney> you could do that if you like
[16:23] <mgdm> is that more than just 'emal and go "can you update it please?"'
[16:24] <Laney> nein
[16:24] <Laney> you could file it as a wishlist bug
[16:24] <mgdm> OK
[16:24] <mgdm> I shall do that
[16:48] <bigcalm[xoom]|> Silly T-Mobile is silly
[16:55] <davmor2> Happy Friday everyone
[17:32] <danfish> AlanBell: which mailing list is going potty at the mo? (seen your tweets)
[17:33] <AlanBell> danfish: I tweeted a link to it :)
[17:39] <danfish> AlanBell: oh yeah. thanks
[17:44]  * danfish has a look then steps hastily back
[18:07] <AlanBell> chrisccoulson: did kittyview hit the archives yet?
[18:19] <davmor2> AlanBell: I think you'll find we agreed on prawnview to not offend the dog owners and cat hating czajkowski
[18:19] <AlanBell> oh, can I suggest chickenview then?
[18:20] <gordonjcp> wtf
[18:20] <gordonjcp> czajkowski hates cats?  I knew there was something *wrong* about her... :-/
[18:20] <gordonjcp> how can you hate cats and be on the Internet?
[18:20] <davmor2> AlanBell: might offend the battery farmed chickens if they see free ones ;)
[18:22] <ali1234> hmm i think i just found the mailing list thing you were talking about earlier
[18:27] <ali1234> OP has a point. the dash has a really nasty habit of finding things you don't want people to see at the exact time they happen to be watching over your shoulder.
[18:32] <AlanBell> yes, the adverts should not be in the apps lens
[18:33] <ali1234> not just adverts. remember that screenshot where the guy had loads of torrents in the dash?
[18:34] <AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/717
[18:34] <ali1234> well ok, one
[18:34] <ali1234> but you get the idea
[18:34] <directhex> moo
[18:35] <AlanBell> ali1234: this is zeitgeist, it tracks what you do and is according to some people a good idea
[18:35] <ali1234> i know
[18:35] <ali1234> i turned it off
[18:36] <hamitron> evening all
[18:36] <hamitron> :)
[18:36] <ali1234> but i'm an expert
[18:36] <zleap> 26th April for 12.04 release right
[18:36] <AlanBell> I don't think I have ever seen it do something usefull
[18:36] <zleap> i am trying to get it mentioned in my local community partnership magazine
[18:37] <AlanBell> yes zleap
[18:37] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[18:37] <davmor2> ali1234: you can just use the privacy tool
[18:37] <ali1234> yes, that's what i did
[18:37] <ali1234> blacklist *
[18:37] <zleap> ok ty,  this should go in the April issue,  by whichj time i may have this computer group up and running,  and may be try and see if any young people want a release party :D
[18:38] <zleap> or a demo event at the may dc/Lug meet
[18:38] <AlanBell> excellent zleap  :)
[18:38] <zleap> :)
[18:39] <zleap> youth service are waiting on references
[18:39] <zleap> more burocratic nonsense basically
[19:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Reminder: Ubuntu Global Jam Video Q+A Coming Up! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/24/reminder-ubuntu-global-jam-video-qa-coming-up/
[19:23] <DJones> Has anybody tried this gnome2 fallback mode for 12.04 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1928350
[19:24] <ali1234> no, but i assume it's the new port of gnome-panel to gtk3?
[19:24] <ali1234> (or maybe it still uses gtk2)
[19:24]  * DJones loads up virtualbox
[19:26] <ali1234> i really hate forums that don't let you see images unless you log in
[19:27] <hamitron> or download files
[19:29] <DJones> Looking through the thread, "It's Gnome 3 that's skinned to look like Gnome 2"
[19:29] <ali1234> oh that.
[19:29] <ali1234> awful
[19:29] <hamitron> :/
[19:29] <ali1234> you can't move the panel around
[19:29] <ali1234> you can't do anything useful with the second monitor
[19:30] <zleap> ok they won't put inthe release date for ubuntu 12.04 as aparenly it won;t mean much to most people
[19:30] <ali1234> it's basically "gnome 2 if you configured it to be as much like gnome shell as possible and only have 1 monitor"
[19:31] <ali1234> there is a way to run gnome panel in gtk3/12.04 though, supposedly
[19:31] <Azelphur_> If your after multi monitor support, XFCE is good :D
[19:32] <ali1234> no it isn't
[19:32]  * Azelphur_ is a quad monitor user
[19:32] <zleap> so will keep trying places, time to print out more posters and put ubuntu stickers in random places :D
[19:32] <hamitron> I used to like XFCE, now just don't seem to
[19:34] <ali1234> all the standard xfce applications are years out of date
[19:34] <ali1234> i'm talking about the video player, the terminal, and the file manager
[19:34] <ali1234> and if i use the gnome ones instead, i can't configure anything properly
[19:35] <Azelphur_> I use most gnome things instead, nautilus and totem :)
[19:36] <ali1234> KDE and gnome at least share most settings through xdg
[19:36] <ali1234> run a gnome app in kde, it looks like kde
[19:36] <ali1234> run a kde ap in gnome, it looks like gnome
[19:36] <ali1234> run a gnome or kde app in xfce, it looks like a mess
[19:36] <Azelphur_> hehe
[19:36] <ali1234> because xfce is horribly out of date and doesn't support anything like that
[19:36] <Azelphur_> my apps are themed fine
[19:37] <ali1234> show a screenshot, i bet i can find at least 3 problems with the themeing
[19:37] <hamitron> themes are not everything.... better to have a mismatched theme, but with the correct functionality
[19:37] <ali1234> i disagree
[19:37] <Azelphur_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-08-030714_3840x1200_scrot.png
[19:38] <ali1234> ...
[19:38] <ali1234> you only have 1 program running
[19:38] <ali1234> and no panels
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> Hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A#!
[19:39] <Azelphur_> ali1234: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-24-193905_874x632_scrot.png
[19:39] <ali1234> o_O
[19:40] <ali1234> the drop "shadow" on those radio buttons is a crime
[19:40] <Azelphur_> that's more the specific theme I've chosen rather than an issue in XFCE :)
[19:41] <ali1234> the text on the frames appears to be in a totally different font for some reason
[19:41] <ali1234> yes, well if you pick a theme that's hideous to start with it's kind of hard to notice when it breaks i guess :)
[19:41] <Azelphur_> ali1234: *shrug* It's the only theme that actually uses black as a base colour I could find
[19:42] <Azelphur_> I dunno why everybody insists on using bright colors for background
[19:42] <ali1234> because it's much easier to read
[19:42] <Azelphur_> ali1234: nope
[19:42] <ali1234> unless you're a cave-dweller :)
[19:43] <Azelphur_> ali1234: whites more intensive on your eyes, white is more of a highlight color, while black is null, void
[19:43] <Azelphur_> black backgrounds should be the norm, white is for things of actual relevance (eg text)
[19:44] <Azelphur_> plus it looks cool because it totally matches my monitors. :D
[19:44] <ali1234> so, on your first screenshot, why is the window title text much bigger than the font used inside the windows?
[19:45] <ali1234> the kerning is also terrible
[19:45] <ali1234> Pid ginView lol
[19:45] <Azelphur_> because I specifically set the font size lower in pidgin to squeeze more text in
[19:45] <Azelphur_> ali1234: haha, my little window switcher to manage the madness :P
[19:45] <ali1234> on the menus?
[19:45] <Azelphur_> in the pidgin menus, yes
[19:45] <DJones> Don't know if its the same for monitors as it is for projectors, I'm always advised that the bext colours for reading on a projector are yellow text on a blue background
[19:46] <ali1234> so why don't you make the titlebar text smaller to match it?
[19:46] <ali1234> how can you even look at that without getting annoyed?
[19:46] <DJones> But being honest, to me, it looks awefull
[19:46] <Azelphur_> ali1234: pretty fine, no reason that window title bars should have the same font size as the content :P
[19:47]  * hamitron doesn't in KDE either
[19:47] <ali1234> moving on...
[19:47] <Azelphur_> hehe
[19:47] <ali1234> why is the gap between names in the nicklist bigger than the height of the actual nicks?
[19:48] <Azelphur_> not sure what you mean by that
[19:48] <jacobw> in..?
[19:48] <ali1234> "26 people in room"
[19:48] <ali1234> then a list of nicks
[19:48] <ali1234> Chanserv, Edge, ...
[19:48] <ali1234> why is the gap between the bottom of the "C" and the top of "E" so big?
[19:49] <ali1234> i don't even know how you could have configured that
[19:49] <Azelphur_> *shrug* I think perhaps that's derived by the theme again
[19:49] <Azelphur_> It's just a standard gtk widget
[19:49] <ali1234> distance between nicks shoulw be the same as the distance between the messages
[19:50] <Azelphur_> *Shrug* could probably squeeze one or two extra nicks in the list
[19:50]  * jacobw snuggles irssi
[19:50] <Azelphur_> jacobw: irssi can't do horizontal tiling :(
[19:50] <ali1234> purely for aesthetic reasons
[19:50]  * Azelphur_ can see all the things
[19:51] <jacobw> sure it can, or rather, tmux can :)
[19:51] <Azelphur_> jacobw: would require running like 15 instances of irssi in some really weird setup
[19:51] <jacobw> yeah, it wouldn't work
[19:51] <ali1234> it would be awful
[19:51] <davmor2> byobu-tmux ftw
[19:52] <ali1234> you want to type in window 13? sure, just press ctrl-a ctrl-n 13 times!
[19:52] <Azelphur_> jacobw: not being able to tile IRC was one of my major gripes when I switched from windows, it's what I came up with to solve it :P
[19:52] <Azelphur_> haha
[19:52] <jacobw> i'm glad byobu uses tmux now
[19:52] <ali1234> tmux is for people who think clicking in a window is too easy
[19:52] <jacobw> well, it is :p
[19:53] <ali1234> screen is for people who need to run a long running command on a remote server and don't want it to get killed by a hang up
[19:53] <brobostigon> well, i changed back to byobu-screen on my vps, as byobu-tmux was ram and cpu hungry.
[19:54] <ali1234> tmux also doesn't support -D
[19:54] <ali1234> which is the most useful screen option ever
[19:54] <brobostigon> byobu-tmux alone, used %20 ram, not acceptable.
[19:54] <ali1234> since it allows you to automatically run a session inside any context and then remotely connect to it later
[19:55] <davmor2> ali1234: you can disconnect from byobu-tmux and reconnect
[19:55] <brobostigon> byobu-screen uses basiclly nothing measurable.
[19:55] <ali1234> you can't disconnect from it until it is already running
[19:56] <ali1234> i think it's a different switch actually
[19:56] <ali1234> ah -d -m
[19:57] <ali1234> eg put "while 1; do screen -d -m; done" in your gnome-session startup
[19:57] <ali1234> you are now able to ssh into the machine and access a shell inside the X11 security context
[19:58] <ali1234> actually don't do that, you'll get millions of screens :)
[19:59] <ali1234> you need -D -m, which doesn't fork
[19:59] <ali1234> so i was half right
[19:59] <jacobw> :)
[20:00] <ali1234> anyway, tmux can't do that afaik
[20:03] <jacobw> weekends are boring
[20:13] <dwatkins> tmux is confusing with reattaching
[20:16] <penguin42> ooh a play.com advert for a cheap Android tablet for only £NaN
[20:16] <Azelphur_> Must buy!
[20:18] <jacobw> penguin42: ooh
[20:18] <ali1234> asda were selling the archos 28 for £30 today
[20:18] <penguin42> gah - it's £69.99 when you click through
[20:18] <ali1234> only on the website. it's sold out
[20:19] <ali1234> also it's only a tablet in the sense that it isn't a phone
[20:19] <Laney> 69.99 clearly is a number
[20:19] <Laney> complain!
[20:20] <gordonjcp> ali1234: so, it's a phone, without the GSM chipset?
[20:21] <jacobw> it takes 7 minutes to walk to the supermarket, and about 4 minutes to purchase something, making an 18 minutes round trip
[20:21] <jacobw> how badly do i want tangfastics? :|
[20:21] <gordonjcp> and because of its daft form factor it can't be mounted in landscape format without looking stupid
[20:21] <ali1234> gordonjcp: pretty much yes
[20:22] <ali1234> gordonjcp: if you want something that's portrait and mountable you want the archos 32 home connect
[20:22] <ali1234> er i mean landscape
[20:22] <gordonjcp> ali1234: so as a tablet to be mounted in the space where a rear view mirror would go, it's still not what I'm looking for
[20:22] <gordonjcp> hm, that looks fairly decent
[20:22] <ali1234> and  meant 35
[20:23] <gordonjcp> even better
[20:26] <ali1234> resistive touchscreen would probably be bad for mounting in a car
[20:26] <ali1234> cos you have to press really hard
[20:26] <ali1234> you'd need a good mount
[20:27] <gordonjcp> yeah
[20:28] <gordonjcp> I was going to make a bracket up to go onto a mounting point just above the windscreen
[20:38] <penguin42> jacobw: Why does the supermarket take so long - don't they have a self-scan ?
[20:40]  * penguin42 waits the extra minute or so for him to return
[20:42] <bigcalm_lappy> Update manager wants to have some fun. Do I let it download 43.5mb over my mobile connection I wonder
[20:43] <ali1234> i had 500mb of updates today
[20:43] <bigcalm_lappy> ali1234: 12.04?
[20:43] <ali1234> yes
[20:43] <bigcalm_lappy> :)
[20:44] <ali1234> now there's another 71mb since 5 hours ago
[20:51] <popey> wheee as everything lands
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> Instead of doing that throughout the cycle..
[20:52] <popey> sadly wasnt ready
[20:53]  * bigcalm_lappy whimpers without his broadband connection
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: at least it's not late March ;)
[20:53] <popey> indeed
[20:53]  * MartijnVdS is going to report a lot of bugs on Monday
[20:53] <bigcalm_lappy> popey: laptop fully working now?
[20:53] <AlanBell> there should be another libreoffice upgrade to come (at least one)
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> My work machine has an ATi card and it does WEIRD things
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> (unity (panel, dock) shows up when the screensaver is active, for instance).. and right-click menus only show up after selecting one of the items in them
[20:54] <AlanBell> if you have a big screen and LibreOffice won't start then you have to remove libreoffice-gtk which takes out all the pretty
[20:55] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: when you report the menu one tell em it affects nvidia too
[20:55] <ali1234> and it's all menus
[20:58] <popey> bigcalm_lappy: ya
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/916981
[20:59] <popey> i already filed the menu's not appearing bug
[20:59] <bigcalm_lappy> popey: good show :)
[20:59] <popey> and have someone working on it
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: Ah, #? :)
[20:59] <popey> bug 931473
[20:59] <popey> later than yours
[20:59] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: that one sounds different to what i'm seeing
[21:00] <ali1234> popey's bug sounds closer to mine
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> I get what popey gets, but even less "working" menu bits
[21:00] <ali1234> popey: each menu item appears only after you've moused over it right?
[21:00] <ali1234> screenshot looks right too
[21:01] <popey> yes
[21:01] <popey> thats just one exaple
[21:01] <popey> sometimes you just see the drop shadow
[21:01] <ali1234> yeah
[21:01] <ali1234> normally i get the drop shaow and what ever option is directly under the mouse
[21:01] <popey> yeah
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> marking as 'affects me'
[21:02] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RE9btMmFn0
[21:02] <popey> shows it
[21:03] <ali1234> it's not movement based :)
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> it's window-switching related
[21:03] <ali1234> you have to focus another window and then go bac, then it will do it
[21:04] <popey> oooh
[21:04] <popey> easy to reproduce
[21:04] <ali1234> yeah
[21:05] <popey> can you please leave a comment about how easy that is to reproduce?
[21:05] <ali1234> sure
[21:07] <popey> ta
[21:07] <popey> actually scratch that
[21:07] <popey> its already fixed ☺
[21:07] <ali1234> ok :)
[21:07] <popey> once it gets merged
[21:08] <popey> " The problem is with wrong XDamageNotifyEvents that we get from X"
[21:08] <popey> "We get invalid areas that are said to be 'needing redraw' in case of menus"
[21:11] <ali1234> hmm how do i even access the right-click-titlebar menu on a maximized window?
[21:12] <ali1234> if you have multimonitor, and you have a maximized window on onitor 1 and a focused window on monitor 2, the panel on monitor 1 should show the close button and menus for the maximized window on monitor 1. not the name of the focussed window on monitor 2
[21:13] <popey> alt+space ☺
[21:20] <ali1234> popey: have you seen the thing with fullscreen windows that don't draw?
[21:20] <ali1234> it's probably related
[21:24] <popey> no
[21:36] <occupy64k> Trying Unity again
[21:42] <ali1234> argh who unplugged youtube
[23:06] <christian__> yo
[23:06] <christian__> anyone alive
[23:34] <AlanBell> daubers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide and anyone else interested
[23:41] <KrimZon> I don't see any "Don't refer to releases by rude parodies of their codename" in there.
[23:46]  * popey boggles that the guide recommends people _search_ ubuntu forums, yet not search askubuntu?
[23:46] <popey> there seems to be some obsession in the irc community that askubuntu is somehow bad, and ubuntuforums is good. quite odd
[23:47]  * AlanBell says it *is* a wiki
[23:47] <AlanBell> and it *was* an etherpad
[23:47] <popey> its not that I want to correct it
[23:47] <popey> it's that the attitude speaks volumes
[23:47] <popey> there is something fundamentally wrong there
[23:47] <AlanBell> can't say I use either
[23:51] <AlanBell> I don't think there is any attitude involved, one person who was drafting the document clearly finds some value in the forums, nobody involved in askubuntu added that as a thing in the guidelines yet
[23:51] <popey> its not just that document
[23:52] <AlanBell> we were discussing some kind of integration between #ubuntu-meta and askubuntu
[23:53] <popey> there's quite an embedded attitude that's been around ever since au started, it hasn't really changed. a resistance to it.
[23:53] <mattt> evening evening