[01:17] <broder> made it to level 6 :)
[01:33] <broder> fyi, if anybody's working on the ctf, i recommend adding -stripe to the beginning of any google searches you do
[01:33] <broder> there are, e.g., gists on github with solution writeups that have already been indexed
[09:48] <arand> If I want to get an icon-size fix into Precise at this stage, would it be easier to sync over a Debian update (with very minor packaging updates), or do the patch as an isolated patch for Ubuntu?
[09:55] <tumbleweed> minor packaging updates => sync
[09:55] <tumbleweed> (assuming they won't impact othe rpackages)
[17:43] <qwebirc91098> hello
[17:44] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[17:44] <qwebirc91098> im a c embedded programmer
[17:44] <qwebirc91098> could i get some help on getting into the ubuntu project?
[17:51] <tumbleweed> qwebirc91098: sure
[17:53] <tumbleweed> qwebirc91098: do you have any particular questions?
[18:07] <qwebirc91098> hm yes
[18:07] <qwebirc91098> first, can you point me to a specific bug/feature that i can work on?
[18:08] <qwebirc91098> never worked on a an opensource project before
[18:08] <qwebirc91098> would glad to get some overview
[18:08] <tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted has some hints
[18:09] <valdur55> qwebirc91098, first change your nick iwth /nick command :). Then read channel topic
[18:10] <tumbleweed> we're just coming up on beta 1, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule so the things of most interest are fixing release-critical bugs, not bringing in new packages or new versions of things
[18:10] <SemaphoreVsMutex> thanks for the link.. i read some of the bugs in the bug section
[18:10] <SemaphoreVsMutex> was hard for me to follow since it was all fixed or being fixed
[18:12] <tumbleweed> harvest should help you to find things to look at
[18:15] <jokerdino> ooh people around.
[18:16] <jokerdino> i am investigating bug 898463
[18:16] <jokerdino> i note that there is no fault in gparted or app-install-data
[18:17] <jokerdino> and i am not sure where the problem is in usc. any pointers?
[20:26] <ockham> tumbleweed: did you get any chance to take a look at tesseract 3.0?
[20:26] <tumbleweed> ockham: no, but I suppose I could now
[20:27] <ockham> tumbleweed: cool! tell me if there are any menial tasks i can help with
[20:28] <tumbleweed> pipedream: ohi
[20:29] <pipedream> ohi
[20:29] <pipedream> tumbleweed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-February/007188.html
[20:30] <tumbleweed> pipedream: yar, just saw that
[20:30] <tumbleweed> did you see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianScience/Sage ?
[20:30] <pipedream> No
[20:30]  * tumbleweed doesn't know too much about sage, but as I understand it, it's a big bundle of other stuff
[20:31] <pipedream> yes
[20:31] <pipedream> It's a python front-end to like 50 packages
[20:31] <tumbleweed> so, when we are shipping different versions of the "other stuff" to sage, things get problematic
[20:31] <pipedream> So I don't want to ship a sage based on the debian vcersions
[20:31] <pipedream> sage makes all it's own versions
[20:31] <tumbleweed> which means you we have to carry essentially two copies of all of those packages
[20:31] <pipedream> sage has thigns called spkg's (tarballs) which are the upstream exact versions whic hmake sage compile so cleanly
[20:32] <pipedream> Yes, the sage package will be huge
[20:32] <pipedream> but  my goal is to aid Sage adoption, and besides using bandwidth/space, I don't really tsee the problem with this
[20:32] <pipedream> Sage-spkg'es do not overwrite system versions
[20:32] <pipedream> you call them from sage (or optionally install direct access to /usr/local/bin/)
[20:33] <tumbleweed> the most commonly-stated downside of duplication is that security issues have to be fixed in multiple places
[20:33] <pipedream> So how about I just make a PPA first, and worry about all that later
[20:33] <tumbleweed> yeah, why not
[20:33] <tumbleweed> I also suggest talking to the debian science people
[20:33] <pipedream> Then debian/ubuntu won't be shipping insecure stuff
[20:34] <pipedream> tumbleweed: apt-add-repository ppa:aims/sagemath
[20:34] <pipedream> (there is nothing in there ;)
[20:34] <tumbleweed> :)
[20:35] <tumbleweed> the build failure in your mail didn't actually include gcc's error
[20:35] <tumbleweed> does sage's build system hide gcc output?
[20:35] <pipedream> nope
[20:35] <pipedream> I forgot to attach the log file
[20:35] <tumbleweed> pastebin?
[20:35] <pipedream> it's a 1.2M text file
[20:35] <tumbleweed> only the bit around the error is important
[20:35] <pipedream> http://users.aims.ac.za/~jan/maxima-5.23.2.p3.log.lzma
[20:36] <tumbleweed> ah, or that
[20:36] <pipedream> the line that failed is a pretty long line
[20:36] <pipedream> I figure that is details
[20:36] <pipedream> I need a mentor as I will run into such problems again and again
[20:36] <pipedream> and I can't pinpoint them to the package or to my (lack of) packaging skills
[20:36] <tumbleweed> pipedream: I'm more than happy to help out
[20:37] <jtaylor> looks like a quoting issue
[20:37] <pipedream> maxima, btw, built cleanly when NOT run from debuild
[20:37] <tumbleweed> we already know each other, so why not :P
[20:37] <pipedream> tumbleweed: I am at an ICTP workshop, and this is my project for the week
[20:37] <tumbleweed> ah, I see
[20:37] <pipedream> whatever time you have to help, super thanks
[20:37] <pipedream> but I guess this will go on after that
[20:37] <pipedream> and also as sage thakes 5 hours to build the iterations are a bit long
[20:38] <pipedream> So I will keep asking on sage-devel, ubuntu-motu, and #ubuntu-motu for a few days
[20:38] <jtaylor> do you use ccache? that will cut down time on repeated builds of C/c++ parts
[20:38] <pipedream> then I am on two weeks holiday and will pick it up again after
[20:38]  * pipedream googles ccache
[20:38] <pipedream> sage itself will also pick up from where it left off
[20:38] <pipedream> where it b0rked
[20:39] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: what quoting issue do you see?
[20:39] <tumbleweed> I just wish I could see gcc's outptu
[20:39] <pipedream> that maxima.log I pasted has it?
[20:39] <jtaylor>  /usr/bin/ld: unrecognized option '-Bsymbolic-functions -Wl'
[20:39] <tumbleweed> oh, I missed that
[20:39] <tumbleweed> at the end of the massive line, duh
[20:39] <jtaylor> a failuire like that also occurs in scons packages quite often
[20:39] <tumbleweed> yes, that is a quoting issue
[20:40] <pipedream> (yes, but only via debuild?)
[20:40] <jtaylor> debuild exports certain buildflags a normal build would not
[20:40] <jtaylor> including -Bsymbolic-function and security related stuff
[20:40] <pipedream> so here is where I have a lot to learn ;)
[20:41] <tumbleweed> jtaylor seems to know everything about these types of issues, you're in good hands :P
[20:43] <valdur55> pipedream, look topic links.... maybe you read then something useful :)
[20:44] <pipedream> valdur55: I am reading a lot at developer.ubuntu.com, debian guides, and launchpad
[20:45] <valdur55> pipedream, ok! good to know!
[20:48] <tumbleweed> ScottK: if I were to kick the ball rolling on tesseract (I'm just starting some local tests), are you up for a pile of NEW review? (there are 67 tesseract source packages)
[21:00] <pipedream> tumbleweed: I'm getting some reply on sage-devel mailing list.
[21:00] <pipedream> I guess it is not appropriate to keep this going on both sage-devel and ubuntu-moto, and yet that is exactly the cross section where people can help solve this problem...
[21:01] <tumbleweed> I'm busy downloading the source so I can have a look
[21:01] <tumbleweed> anything interesting in your debian/rules?
[21:02] <pipedream> uhm, no
[21:02] <pipedream> I literally read and followed http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html
[21:02] <pipedream> from the top down
[21:02] <tumbleweed> cool
[21:03] <ScottK> tumbleweed: Are they sync's from Debian?  If so, no problem.
[21:03] <tumbleweed> yes
[21:03] <ScottK> tumbleweed: Go for it.
[21:03] <tumbleweed> ok, as soon as I've tested it locally
[21:17] <tumbleweed> pipedream: re "googling and not finding much"
[21:17] <tumbleweed> the flags are coming from dpkg-buildflags
[21:17] <pipedream> heh
[21:18] <pipedream> which is absent in my package so I get defaults?
[21:18] <pipedream> I can also try to pre-empt the difficult part by doing an easier project first:
[21:18] <tumbleweed> debuild runs it
[21:19] <tumbleweed> (in Debian, this doesn't happen any more, as these days, dh runs it, at compat levels >=9. But we kept this enabled in Ubuntu for precise)
[21:19] <pipedream> a package, say, sagemath-upstream-binary, which gets sage's prebuilt binar and make a postinst script that untars it, moves it, fixes permissions
[21:19] <tumbleweed> err s/debuild/dpkg-buildpackage/
[21:20] <tumbleweed> ick
[21:20] <tumbleweed> building from source is definitly preferable :)
[21:20] <pipedream> yes, but just to practice my packaging a bit, and to have a result for people to use while I work on it
[21:21] <tumbleweed> fair enoguh
[21:21] <tumbleweed> (it'll also build, much faster :P )
[21:21] <pipedream> Yes, and I'll actually have something to show at the end of the workshop ;)
[21:22] <pipedream> I cxould probably do that in one day if I learn how to make a virtual package from scratch and add a postinst, but that seems to rely on me already knowing how to build source packages, bit of a catch 22
[21:23] <tumbleweed> I suggest not doing anything fancy in a postinst
[21:23] <tumbleweed> rather take a linux binary tarball as your source, and build debs containing everything where you want them
[21:24] <tumbleweed> the only reason people do crazy downwloading and unpacking in postinsts, is that the software they are installing isn't redistributable
[21:25] <tumbleweed> pipedream: look at the Ubuntu nvidia-cg-toolkit package for an example of what I'm suggesting
[21:26] <pipedream> ok
[21:30] <tumbleweed> sorr, that's not a simple example, there is lots of other stuff going on there too
[21:30] <pipedream> Yes, how about a doc package that builds nothing?
[21:31] <pipedream> what is a proper debian location for sage?
[21:31] <pipedream> /usr/bin/sage and /usr/share/sage/* ?
[21:32] <tumbleweed> /usr/lib/sage, if you want it all in one place. /usr/share is for arch-independant data only
[21:32] <tumbleweed> and bin, yes
[21:32] <pipedream> ok, thanks
[21:32] <broder> pipedream: sage used to be packaged in debian. it ended up getting removed because the packager got busy running a startup, but have you looked that up?
[21:32] <pipedream> yes, Tim Abbott/ksplice . He was however debianizing, depending on all the components' debian versions
[21:33] <pipedream> I want an all-in-one sage
[21:33] <pipedream> sage versions of all the components
[21:33] <broder> oh, i see
[21:33] <tumbleweed> which probably wouldn't be acceptable in Debian, but it's closer to what sage upstream wants, and debs of that would be useful (in your PPA, of course)
[21:33] <broder> (just curious - tim is a friend of mine from school)
[21:34] <pipedream> that project is too big for me now
[21:34] <pipedream> maybe one day
[21:40] <pipedream> 3 jan@osprey:~/sagemath-upstream-binary$ls usr/lib/
[21:40] <pipedream> sage-4.8-linux-64bit-ubuntu_10.04.3_lts-x86_64-Linux
[21:40] <pipedream> 0 jan@osprey:~/sagemath-upstream-binary$bzr dh-make sagemath-upstream-binary 4.8-10.04.3-0ubuntu1
[21:40] <pipedream> bzr: ERROR: command 'dh-make' requires argument TARBALL
[21:41] <pipedream> ^^ so this package would have no upstream tarball
[21:41] <tumbleweed> pipedream: rename the tarball you downloaded to $PKG_$VER.orig.tar.gz
[21:42] <pipedream> (on 12.04 it renames for one, I think, but OK, I had removed the tarball as it is uncessary for this method)
[21:42] <tumbleweed> you still need an orig tarball
[21:42] <pipedream> (also it is lzma, I guess I need to decompress and use gz?)
[21:42] <tumbleweed> no, .lzma is fine
[21:42] <tumbleweed> (although tell the upstream that they should use .xz instead :P )
[21:43] <pipedream> bzr: ERROR: Unable to import library "lzma": No module named lzma
[21:43] <tumbleweed> install python-lzma?
[21:44] <pipedream> right
[21:46] <tumbleweed> ockham: tesseract 3 doesn't break the world (that I can see)
[21:46]  * tumbleweed starts pressing buttons
[21:46] <ockham> tumbleweed: yeah!
[21:46] <ockham> go for it!
[21:47]  * tumbleweed quickly adds a -y option to syncpackage
[21:49] <pipedream> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/857071/
[21:49] <pipedream> ^^ sagemath is a bit big?
[21:50] <tumbleweed> lol
[21:50] <tumbleweed> I do suggest filing a bug about that
[21:51] <tumbleweed> Go the bzr-less route for now, or do a merge-mode bzr branch (only containing the debian directory)
[21:52] <pipedream> network-manager coredumped while trying to file a bug (I'm running 12.04 right now, next to 11.10 on this laptop)
[21:53] <tumbleweed> cyphermox: ^
[21:53] <pipedream> And I have a sage compile running, so I'll reboot to 11.10 later
[21:55] <pipedream> unreportablereason: networkmanager version has changed since then
[22:02] <pipedream> seocnd time round it worked (nm didn't crash)
[22:02] <pipedream> same bug as this one maybe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr/+bug/531612
[22:03] <tumbleweed> your traceback looked bzr-builddeb specific
[22:03] <jtaylor> is sage bigger than 4gb? :O
[22:07] <pipedream> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr/+bug/941131
[22:07] <pipedream> 3G
[22:07] <pipedream> "This report is private" ?
[22:08] <pipedream> ^ First time I've seen that
[22:08] <tumbleweed> crash bugs potentially contain private data
[22:08] <pipedream> ok
[22:08] <tumbleweed> the re-tracer removes the dumps and attaches stack traces
[22:09] <tumbleweed> ScottK: all yours: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue :)
[22:09] <pipedream> So, I don't know the bzr-less route or merge-mode bzr. Reading http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[22:09] <Laney> removals filed too?
[22:09] <Laney> also, damn you re: ctf
[22:09] <tumbleweed> Laney: :)
[22:09] <Laney> level05 now
[22:10] <tumbleweed> 5 is easy
[22:10] <ajmitch> I don't think I'll start on ctf, it'll kill any time I had
[22:10] <Laney> i pasted the curl line it gave and it didn't come back, so i decided to give up for now
[22:10] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: that's a lot of syncs :)
[22:10] <tumbleweed> yup
[22:10] <broder> level 5 is obfuscated, but easy once you realize what you have to do
[22:11] <Laney> i liked 3
[22:12] <broder> i still don't know what specifically i'm supposed to do for 6
[22:12] <Laney> got more useful things to do, like make a haskell graph go green
[22:12] <tumbleweed> heh
[22:13]  * ajmitch should get back to the fun rcbugs list
[22:13] <ajmitch> so many to look at on there
[22:13] <tumbleweed> broder: I found a rather neat solution to that, after lots of dead ends
[22:22] <pipedream> Thanks. I'm off until Monday morning now, I think.
[22:23] <highvoltage> those sure are a lot of tesseract packages :)
[22:23] <ajmitch> tumbleweed's trying to win on the upload activity graphs :)
[22:24] <tumbleweed> they mostly just contain one file
[22:24]  * tumbleweed blames the debian maintainer
[22:25]  * ajmitch still has a long way to go to get back on that list of uploaders for precise
[22:25] <jtaylor> where is that list again?
[22:25] <ScottK> There's a list?
[22:26] <ajmitch> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-activity/
[22:26] <ScottK> Ah.  Didn't know about that.  Thanks.
[22:27] <tumbleweed> it's intentionally not listed anywhere :)
[22:27] <ajmitch> still interesting to look at
[22:27] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: don't worry, I won't tell anyone about it ;)
[22:27] <tumbleweed> :P
[22:28]  * Laney tweets it
[22:28] <tumbleweed> as long as nobody sends me angry e-mail about comparing canonical contributions to community members, do whatever you want :)
[22:28] <ajmitch> and spoil all our fun?
[22:34] <ScottK> tumbleweed: I'm assuming you're tracking if all the tesseract builds succeed.  I'm just worrying about Newing the stuff that does.
[22:35] <ajmitch> a --subscribe-me-to-bugs-and-build-failures on syncpackage would be nice - I currently don't know if the person syncing gets the build failure emails for syncs
[22:35] <tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah, keeping an eye on them (and they all built locally)
[22:36] <ScottK> ajmitch: If you get the accepted mail, you'll get the build failures, I'm pretty sure.
[22:36] <tumbleweed> ajmitch: at least tde debian maintainers aren't getting emails any more
[22:36] <tumbleweed> bug 862251 for the sync requestor
[22:38] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: thanks, hopefully I haven't missed any failures on archs that I don't have
[22:38] <ajmitch> not that I've got many syncs :)
[22:39] <tumbleweed> fortunetly there's a column on launchpad.net/people/+me/+synchronised-packages
[22:40] <tumbleweed> listing failures
[22:40] <ajmitch> great, one armhf failure
[22:43] <tumbleweed> oh, even test-rebuild failures show up there, neat
[22:50] <ScottK> tumbleweed: sikuli depwait
[22:51] <tumbleweed> yeah, it looks like tesseract-dev isn't published yet
[22:51] <tumbleweed> although LP said it was, before I retried it
[22:55] <ScottK> LP says it's published at the start of the publisher run, but the package isn't actually available until shortly after it finishes.
[23:18] <ajmitch> Laney: there aren't plans to update ghc in precise, are there?
[23:18] <Laney> yes
[23:19] <ajmitch> ok, was just looking at the rc bugs list, found some packages like gtk2hs-buildtools that will need synced if it's updated
[23:20] <Laney> it will all be synced
[23:20]  * Laney rubs palms
[23:20] <ajmitch> sounds like madness
[23:25] <ockham> tumbleweed: thanks for syncing tesseract! incidentally, this has just been posted to LP: https://bugs.launchpad.net/simple-scan/+bug/483391/comments/21
[23:26] <ockham> hmm, getting proper an OCR option into Simple Scan sounds tempting...