[01:11] <snadge> unity is broken on my work desktop
[01:12] <snadge> tried resetting it.. if i re-enable unity plugij with ccsm, interface just freezes
[01:12] <snadge> sigh
[01:13] <snadge> unity-panel-service: no process found
[01:24] <snadge> oh god.. i switched to gnome-shell because unity is annoying the crap out of me.. and.. i just want to cry
[01:40] <bilal> thumper: Yep, I tried that, didn't work
[01:55] <snadge> LOL apt-get --purge remove unity* compiz*
[01:55] <snadge> i fixed it :D
[02:26] <snadge> ergh.. the bindings have changed for desktop panning? seriously?
[02:26] <snadge> i just want to punch somebody in the face now
[02:27] <snadge> i spent all morning fixing my desktop because it wouldn't work.. god knows why.. only to be screwed around by yet another arbitrary config change
[02:27] <thumper> I was not entirely happy with that either
[02:27] <snadge> im violently unhappy about it.. i really do want to punch somebody in the face
[02:28] <snadge> way to piss people off
[02:28] <snadge> shift super? seriously? why!?
[02:28] <snadge> thats just .. grrrr
[02:28] <thumper> no idea, but I'll be asking
[02:28] <thumper> I changed mine back to ctrl+alt+left/right
[02:29] <snadge> move with window within wall has changed too
[02:29] <snadge> i need one of those paper bags to breathe into
[02:29] <snadge> perhaps some calm meditation music
[02:30] <snadge> im going to buy some distillers yeast.. and 6 kilos of dextrose
[02:30] <snadge> unfortunately it wont be fermented and distilled for another 3 days or so.. which is too long
[02:30] <DebolazW> Dextrose ftw
[02:31] <DebolazW> Although I probably use it for something different than you do. :-)
[02:35] <snadge> haha.. cutting up meth
[02:35] <snadge> i dont need to be alert.. i need good old fashioned booze, to dull the senses.. not enhance them
[02:36]  * DebolazW still ponders how to get the intel titlebar bug to someones attention.
[02:38] <snadge> i just dont know what to do anymore.. the number of complaints i've had lately
[02:38] <snadge> i tried to switch to gnome-shell in protest.. but i just couldn't do it
[05:12] <snadge> anyone know why move workspace has changed from ctrl-alt to super-shift ?
[05:12] <snadge> and move window to another workspace has changed from shift-ctrl-alt  to super-alt
[05:13] <snadge> was it just to piss people off? or is it another extreme retard useability test failure
[06:32] <thumper> snadge: I'm sure there was a reason, I just don't know what it was
[06:35] <snadge> well.. launcher dodge windows was removed because it "failed user testing"
[06:35] <snadge> translated.. the code was ugly, buggy.. and nobody could be bothered maintaining it
[06:35] <snadge> because the option to use it, even via enabling it in ccsm, was also removed
[06:36] <snadge> for someone who uses those shortcuts a lot.. suddenly changing them without rational explanation.. is frustrating to put it mildly.. it would want to be a damn good reason
[06:37] <snadge> i keep trying to switch desktops and move windows.. the old way
[06:38] <snadge> i could just change the shortcuts back again.. but that will cause me pain when i go to use someone elses unity system ;)
[09:00] <smb> Hm, not sure how that did happen, but I got a netbook where the shortcuts seem to have gotten half updated. So maximize window is still alt+f10 but unmaximise is already super+down...
[09:17] <mhr3> kamstrup, and one more - i did the "owner" peers, but they don't behave very nicely, the leadership is encoded deep inside sharedmodel, so for example taking an ownership means that the new owner will discard everything already present in the model
[09:17] <kamstrup> eeek
[09:17] <mhr3> somehow it's expected i suppose
[09:17] <kamstrup> yeah, DeeSharedModel is playing a bit clever on the name owning
[09:18] <kamstrup> hmmm
[09:18] <mhr3> so i'd just suggest documenting it a lot :)
[09:18] <kamstrup> mhr3: hehe... i guess you're the one with the dirty hands right now :-)
[09:18] <kamstrup> mhr3: but we does the model need to be cleared on leader changes?
[09:19]  * mhr3 feels bad for this uncleanliness in dee :(
[09:19] <kamstrup> does it be come invalidated because of some seqnum snafu or?
[09:19] <mhr3> kamstrup, no it just goes, oh i'm the leader, so there was noone else here
[09:19] <kamstrup> ah
[09:20] <kamstrup> that was also a valid assumption up until now
[09:20] <kamstrup> :-)
[09:20] <mhr3> yea
[09:21] <kamstrup> mhr3: consider dee a "low entropy implementation". Changing just one bit may invalidate the whole state :-)
[09:21] <mhr3> we do more dbus chatter to make sure it checks first, but well...
[09:21] <mhr3> we could*
[09:21] <kamstrup> mhr3: is it not possibly to distinguish why one got the name..?
[09:21] <mhr3> dont think so
[09:21] <kamstrup> I think OwnName() may provide that... althoughI can't recall
[09:22] <mhr3> dbus will just return primary_owner
[09:22] <mhr3> kamstrup, still owned model suggest this is a valid behaviour :)
[09:23] <kamstrup> right
[09:23] <kamstrup> tricky
[09:23] <kamstrup> mhr3: but does it clear the model when it becomes the leader?
[09:24] <kamstrup> or does it just reset the seqnum?
[09:24] <kamstrup> it's subtly racy in some sense...
[09:24] <mhr3> didn't check that deep, my guess would be that it just assumes it's proper leader and will invalidate others if they commit something
[09:25] <kamstrup> there are two paths. One works the other does not
[09:25] <kamstrup> 1) Snathc name, and then create model --> fail
[09:25] <kamstrup> 2) Create model, wait for sync, snatch name --> OK
[09:25] <kamstrup> mhr3: ^
[09:27] <kamstrup> mhr3: We could make this work: dee_shared_model_new_leader (DeeSharedModelFlags rw_mode_flags)
[09:27] <kamstrup> but passing in a pre-constructed peer might cause breakage
[09:27] <kamstrup> if the peer has already grabbed the name
[09:28] <kamstrup> leaving us without knowledge of who to Clone from
[09:28] <mhr3> just checked, there's no clear
[09:29] <kamstrup> mhr3: I think the problem is that the if we pre-create the peer and own the name we have no one to Clone from. That leaves the leader with the only option to reset the seqnum ==> existing peers needs to be Invalidate()ed
[09:35] <mhr3> kamstrup, i'm still wondering if you should clone by default
[09:35] <mhr3> ultimately the app is able to do this itself if it cares
[09:36] <kamstrup> mhr3: not sure I understand what you mean...
[09:37] <mhr3> well if you want to retain the state of the model from other peers and take the ownership, you could just create a standard sharedmodel, wait for it to sync, take the backend and create an "owner" sharedmodel/peer
[09:38] <mhr3> but imo in most cases if the app is forcing the ownership it doesn't care that there might be something in the model already
[09:48] <mhr3> kamstrup, so if we do make the cloning behavior the default, we might be just causing unneeded traffic (and force the owned models to just do clear() after init)
[09:49] <kamstrup> mhr3: right... what would be the fallout of continuing our current behaviour of invalidting all peers?
[09:49] <kamstrup> not much afaics
[09:50] <mhr3> nothing besides unforeseen consequences :)
[09:54] <jibel> could bug 926859 be fixed for Beta 1 ? it makes testing in VMs very painful
[09:55] <kamstrup> jibel: I think it was enabled on purpose? RAOF on #ubuntu-desktop could confirm I think...
[09:57] <seb128> you can probably get didrocks to distro patch it for beta1 if that's an issue for testing
[09:59] <jibel> seb128, it's an issue for vms and ltsp
[09:59] <jibel> didrocks, ^
[09:59] <didrocks> is there any upstream branch to backport?
[09:59] <didrocks> (I guess there isn't)
[10:02] <seb128> didrocks, no, upstream argue they will do it good enough on llvm that it's not needed
[10:03] <seb128> didrocks, but it's clearly not ready for beta1
[10:03] <seb128> didrocks, it's one of those case were we need to take a pragmatic distro decision to be able to test beta1 correctly
[10:03] <didrocks> seb128: right, the code to blacklist it isn't as straightforward as it seems though from the first look
[10:03] <seb128> didrocks, I also doubt that dx cares a lot about vms, those are not their target users
[10:03] <didrocks> seb128: I will try to get to it
[10:03] <didrocks> but I have a tons of stuff on my plate
[10:04] <seb128> didrocks, ok, I though it was a matter to add one string to the checker code
[10:04] <didrocks> I'm not sure with llvmpipe
[10:04] <didrocks> as its depends on the driver
[10:04] <didrocks> so I need to setup a vm, tests, and such
[10:05] <didrocks> now, back to finish what is urgent as well to prepare the unity release
[10:05] <seb128> didrocks, the bug has the string to add to the list
[10:05] <seb128> didrocks, "OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300)"
[10:05] <didrocks> seb128: I know, I read it, but I prefer to test as well :)
[10:06] <seb128> didrocks, ok, good luck with the release
[10:06] <didrocks> and that's not what we tests ;)
[10:06]  * seb128 goes back to w.e backlog stuff
[10:06] <didrocks> in the checker
[10:14] <didrocks> jibel: you are testing with virtualbox, right?
[10:14] <didrocks> the strings are for vmware
[10:14] <didrocks> I'll try to get some common determinator
[10:14] <jibel> didrocks, it's a problem for vbox right.
[10:15] <didrocks> jibel: ok, let me give a simple script
[10:16] <didrocks> jibel: and tell me if it return 0 or 1
[10:17] <jibel> didrocks, and the user can't select 'unity 2d' because X crashes on logout
[10:17] <didrocks> jibel: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/unity_support_test
[10:18] <didrocks> jibel: please, run it with -f
[10:18] <didrocks> (to avoid the caching)
[10:26] <jibel> didrocks, the problem is not specific to vbox but exists in kvm too.
[10:27] <didrocks> jibel: right, that's why I'm trying to get the common denominator
[10:28] <didrocks> I'm just looking for "llvmpipe" for now, I think that should work
[10:59] <jml> is it a known bug that the dash opens when switching desktops using the default super+alt+arrow keybinding?
[11:02]  * mgedmin has super+g mapped to open gnome-terminal; about 50% of the time pressing super+g also results in an unwanted dash opening (oneiric)
[11:03] <jml> mgedmin: ah, no, I'm talking about latest precise
[11:04] <jml> it's just a bit weird, since this & the compose key thing are the first unity defects in this cycle that have caused a drag on my productivity (well done on that, btw!)
[11:09] <jml> Hmm. And Alt combos frequently open the HUD when I don't want it.
[11:09] <jml> I suspect a secret plot by sabdfl to switch me from Emacs to Vim
[11:11] <davmor2> jml: Geany or gedit I think you'll find ;)
[11:12] <jml> tbh, I'd love to switch to a more modern editor
[11:12] <jml> but that's a discussion for another day
[11:13] <seb128> jml, bug #939521
[11:13] <jml> right now, I'm trying to make sure that we can reliably and quickly deploy our automated packaging stuff to the cloud, and am being stopped every few seconds to look at the HUD.
[11:13] <jml> seb128: thanks
[11:13] <seb128> jml, bug #923410
[11:14] <seb128> jml, you can change the hud key in ccsm as a workaround
[11:19] <jml> seb128: thanks. I'm a bit wary of making CCSM changes: I want to be working as close to Unity default as I can manage so that I can file bugs better and also get better support.
[11:19] <jml> in this case, I guess I'll change it and then change back when I hear the bug is fixed.
[11:19] <seb128> jml, right, I mean no need to impact your productivity for a week for a known bug
[11:20] <jml> huh.
[11:21] <jml> Looking at the settings, it says that the auto-hide reveal is "Left edge". I was wondering what that was (it's not working for me, it seems).
[11:22] <jml> Also, looking at the keyboard shortcuts, I wonder why Super+Up isn't maximize.
[11:28] <seb128> jml, what do you mean "left edge reveal is not working"?
[11:28] <seb128> jml, super-up works here
[11:33] <jml> seb128: I mean, when I move my mouse pointer to the left edge of the screen, the launcher stays hidden
[11:34] <jml> seb128: super-up isn't documented as a keyboard shortcut for me.
[11:36] <jml> 5.4.0-0ubuntu2, fwiw.
[11:36] <jml> although maybe I haven't restarted it since the last update.
[11:37] <seb128> jml, you maybe don't move enough, you need to push
[11:37] <jml> seb128: I'm pushing quite hard.
[11:37] <seb128> jml, there is also a slider in the gnome-control-center appearance capplet (second tab) to change the barrier levels
[11:38] <seb128> jml, if you use nvidia binaries drivers there was a bug but it's supposed to be fixed for some days
[11:39] <jml> seb128: well, I'm running in Virtualbox on an iMac. (due to an annoying hardware failure; would love to be back on bare metal Ubuntu)
[11:39] <jml> seb128: setting it to max sensitivity still doesn't work.
[11:40] <seb128> jml, ok, maybe that's something which doesn't work in vm then
[11:41] <jml> it's not a big deal for me, tbh. I almost prefer having the visibility entirely controlled by keyboard.
[11:41] <jml> so what about this super-up thing? is that actually meant to be maximize? would be heaps more intuitive than Alt-F10.
[12:28] <kamstrup> mhr3: had a load of comments on your branch... sorry! :-)
[12:31] <seb128> jml, super-up,down,left,right are supposed to be active by default yes
[12:31] <jml> seb128: all except super-up are in the shortcuts and work for me. super-up doesn't appear in the shortcuts overlay, nor does it appear to have any affect.
[12:34] <seb128> jml, weird, maybe you got it unset in your config for some reason
[12:39] <jml> seb128: well, it's a bit odd, given that all of my other keyboard bindings changed. Any idea how I'd change it now?
[12:39] <seb128> jml, look in gnome control center keybindings section?
[12:40]  * davmor2 wonders if there is a wishlist bug to add increase/decrease number of desktops as a quicklist to the desktop switcher app for those power users that like that kinda thing
[12:41] <jml> seb128: thanks.
[12:41] <seb128> yw
[13:11] <mhr3> kamstrup, as for the renames, giscanner was complaining, i have no idea why
[13:19] <kamstrup> mhr3: can you revert it... for al we know giscanner might start complaining about *not* using *self in the next version... i don't like following fickle tool behavior like this...
[13:20] <mhr3> kamstrup, ok
[13:29] <mhall119> didrocks: ping
[13:30] <didrocks> mhall119: hey
[13:31] <mhall119> didrocks: hey, 2 things this morning
[13:31] <mhall119> 1) unity-lens template packaging/uploading, will you have time to get to that today?
[13:32] <mhall119> 2) If I start getting community people working on Keywords: data on .desktop files, will those be able to land in 12.04 since they won't necessarily need translating?
[13:32] <mhr3> kamstrup, so wrt the writable prop on ProxyModel, i'm not sure it's a good idea, right now with the disable-writes prop you can basically flip it on and off whenever you want, simulating a kind of critical section for the model, i'm unsure if and how-much clients should know about this
[13:32] <seb128> didrocks, I can handle discussion about 2) if you want
[13:33] <didrocks> seb128: thanks a lot :)
[13:33] <davidcalle> mhall119, I've tried the lens template this morning.
[13:33] <didrocks> mhall119: reviewing is on my plate for today
[13:33] <didrocks> mhall119: then, you can open a FFe
[13:33] <didrocks> mhall119: and once approved, we can upload
[13:33] <seb128> mhall119, hey
[13:33] <mhall119> davidcalle: how did it go
[13:33] <mhall119> ?
[13:34] <mhall119> hey seb128
[13:34] <seb128> mhall119, so Keywords are fine, please get those submitted upstream though, they are useful in gnome-shell and others environments as well
[13:34] <kamstrup> mhr3: ah, right...
[13:34] <seb128> mhall119, we can and will take distro patches but only for things which have an upstream bug reference
[13:34] <davidcalle> mhall119, very well :)
[13:34] <mhall119> seb128: definitely going to get them upstream, I just wanted to make sure they'll qualify for 12.04 before getting people excited about it
[13:34] <didrocks> maybe we should ping the translation team about those?
[13:35] <mhall119> didrocks: about keywords?
[13:35] <didrocks> yeah
[13:35] <seb128> mhall119, we will not block on upstream taking the patches, just to have things sent to them first (if we don't do that it always lead people to no upstream their changes)
[13:35] <mhall119> didrocks: hmm, it's not really a 1-to-1 translatable thing though
[13:35] <seb128> didrocks, mhall119: I need to look at that, I think we might need an update from our glib patch to use gettext for that key as well
[13:35] <seb128> I put it on on my todo
[13:36] <seb128> mhall119, it's a 1-1
[13:36] <didrocks> seb128: oh, you're right, there is certainly something needed around it
[13:36] <seb128> the key is a list of words separated by ";" for both locales
[13:36] <seb128> but translations are not a blocker there like they are for ql
[13:36] <seb128> since those don't show in the ui
[13:36] <mhall119> ok
[13:37] <kamstrup> mhall119: Getting some hype about Keywords support has been on my todo for a while, so if you can do it that'll be just awesome
[13:37] <seb128> it's just better if we can get translated values
[13:37] <kamstrup> incidentally /me just fixed libunity to support Keywords
[13:37] <didrocks> yeah, it's just nice if we can get some translated ones, just need some buzz about it :)
[13:37] <kamstrup> (as just X-AppInstall-Keywords and X-GNOME-Keywords before)
[13:37] <mhall119> seb128: just to I tell people correctly, should it be "Keywords" or "X-AppInstall-Keywords" or "X-GNOME-Keywords"?
[13:38] <kamstrup> Keywords I think
[13:38] <mhall119> nvm, I think kamstrup just answered me
[13:38] <mhall119> :)
[13:38] <kamstrup> the XDG spec should be updated... lemme check
[13:38] <seb128> mhall119, Keywords
[13:38] <mhall119> kamstrup: does Unity search the Categories field too?
[13:39] <seb128> kamstrup, mhall119: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/desktop-file-utils/commit/?id=332835b24602706f71d5f5d912eac4f7a087d8ba
[13:39] <kamstrup> mhall119: not text searching in the categories, but we use it for the filters
[13:40] <seb128> kamstrup, mhall119: Keywords support is in our version of desktop-file-utils as well
[13:40] <kamstrup> seb128: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html is more human parseable :-) (cc: mhall119)
[13:40] <kamstrup> great
[13:40] <mhall119> seb128: kamstrup: do any upstreams support Keywords yet?
[13:42] <kamstrup> mhall119: afaik most things in GNOME Control Center does, and Deja Dup as well - although you might wanna double check that those are upstream and not distro patches
[13:42] <seb128> kamstrup, mhall119: gnome-shell use it: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/commit/?id=1d311e79167441362849657224197819e05678df
[13:42] <seb128> on the "consumer side"
[13:42] <kamstrup> grep ^Keywords= /usr/share/applications/*.desktop :-)
[13:42] <kamstrup> indeed
[13:42] <mhall119> seb128: cool, thanks, that'll help getting it accepted by upstream app developers
[13:42] <seb128> kamstrup, mhall119: should be no issue to get those to any upstream since it's xdg speced
[13:42] <seb128> right
[13:43] <seb128> that's in the spec and cross desktop, KDE uses it as well it seems
[13:43] <seb128> so I think it should be trivial to get acceptance for those
[13:43] <mhall119> cool, thanks you guys, I'll work on a blog post today to get people working on it, and put it up as a requested activity for Ubuntu Global Jam
[13:43] <kamstrup> mhall119: ping the unity-design list as well
[13:47] <mhall119> kamstrup: before of after posting?
[13:47] <kamstrup> mhall119: maybe just a short introduction and a link to your blog post (which would imply ping them after posting :-))
[13:48] <mhall119> kamstrup: good idea, thanks
[13:57] <didrocks> mhall119: hum, you didn't need to bump to 0.0.2 btw, as the first version was "UNRELEASED" :)
[13:57] <didrocks> mhall119: but that's fine nevertheless :)
[13:59] <mhall119> didrocks: 0.2 always gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling
[14:00] <didrocks> mhall119: heh :)
[14:00] <didrocks> but keeping UNRELEASED in the tag is a nice way to handle and to know when an upload was done
[14:00] <didrocks> mhall119: some question: if I were you, I would make clear in the run command that people need to run quickly install before running the first time
[14:00] <didrocks> (and maybe as well some explanation in create)
[14:01] <didrocks> apart from that, it looks good :)
[14:01] <mhall119> didrocks: I'd have to make a custom run.py then
[14:02] <didrocks> right
[14:02] <mhall119> right now it can inherit from ubuntu-application
[14:02] <didrocks> run.py is pretty small
[14:02] <didrocks> so I guess it worths to copy it
[14:02] <mhall119> but it's doable, I can just check for the existance of /usr/share/unity/lenses/<project_name>/
[14:02] <didrocks> yep
[14:03] <didrocks> also
[14:03] <mhall119> didrocks: I'd be nice to have class-based commands in the next major release of quickly
[14:03] <didrocks> os.rmdir('/usr/share/unity/lenses/%s' % lens_name)
[14:03] <mhall119> that way I could just sub-class and override
[14:03] <didrocks> -> it won't work if the dir is not empty
[14:03] <didrocks> so you remove() above
[14:03] <didrocks> but as you are already using shutils
[14:03] <didrocks> you can
[14:03] <mhall119> didrocks: right, but it should be deleting the only files it put in there
[14:03] <didrocks> shutils.rmtree()
[14:04] <didrocks> mhall119: oh wait, maybe I have something for you
[14:04] <didrocks> let me check
[14:06] <didrocks> mhall119: yeah, it's not as easy as I thought
[14:06] <didrocks> mhall119: you can open a whishlist bug :)
[14:07] <didrocks> mhall119: however, keep in mind that the initial design was to run templates (and so command) not in python
[14:13] <ppd> just out of curiosity... is it possible that the unity-design archives (https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/) are not reachable half the day? the rest of launchpad works fine, so I wonder...
[14:15] <kklimonda> why did you switch the shortcut for changing workspaces?
[14:15] <kklimonda> did ctrl+alt clash with something?
[14:15] <kklimonda> (shift+super isn't really that comfortable when you switch all the time)
[14:16] <ppd> I second that ;-). but you can change it back
[14:17] <kklimonda> apparently not by using ccsm ;)
[14:17] <ppd> no way easier in the system settings
[14:18] <ppd> in fact, I just did
[14:18] <kklimonda> ah yes, funny that they are all "Disabled"
[14:18] <kklimonda> before I actualy change them
[14:19] <ppd> all shortcuts are disabled? I think that should not be the case
[14:19] <ppd> I had those Super+something shortcuts filled in there
[14:20] <kklimonda> meh, another bug
[14:21] <ppd> most likely
[14:23] <webm0nk3y> Shift+Ctrl+Alt+Left|Right|Up|Down..... wow!
[14:24] <kklimonda> bah, who is the mythical "designer" who has requested this change?
[14:26] <ppd> well, I guess at long as it is easily configureable, it does not matter all that much
[14:27] <kklimonda> well it does, because ctrl+alt has been the default combination for years
[14:27] <kklimonda> so you can't just change it without a good explanation
[14:27] <Daekdroom> I agree with kklimonda.
[14:27] <kklimonda> especially when shift+super requires you to do weird things with your fingers
[14:27] <Daekdroom> Well... except that 4 keys are a bit too much
[14:27] <kklimonda> it's emacs all over again
[14:29] <kklimonda> not to mention with the new combination I open dash all the time
[14:29] <kklimonda> (and show the launcher, and the shiny shortcut crib)
[14:30] <mhall119> davidcalle: ping
[14:30] <ppd> don't get me wrong, I too am a user of the old ctrl+alt shortcuts, but if they want to unify all shortcuts under the "super" modifier, it's not necessarily a bug. the side effects with the launcher appearing and the helper-thingy constantly popping up however are bugs
[14:30] <davidcalle> mhall119, hey
[14:30] <Daekdroom> Huh... Why is the shortcut overlay hardcoded?
[14:30] <Daekdroom> The shortcuts, I mean.
[14:30] <mhall119> davidcalle: hiya, did you happen to catch the ARB meeting on Friday?
[14:31] <kklimonda> ppd: but the new way is not just "new", it's simply not ergonomic
[14:31] <mhall119> Daekdroom: it isn't
[14:31] <seb128> kklimonda, known bug for the dash and summary screens
[14:31] <kklimonda> ppd: It makes me press shift with my pinky, and super with my thumb
[14:31] <seb128> kklimonda, well the rational is that all keybindings are super based
[14:31] <seb128> where ctrl-alt is not
[14:31] <davidcalle> mhall119, no, I forgot about it.
[14:31] <mhall119> seb128: any reason why it can't be just super+arrow?
[14:31] <seb128> though yeah, ctrl-super or super-alt would be better
[14:31]  * davidcalle runs to the log
[14:32] <kklimonda> super+arrow is already occupied ;)
[14:32] <seb128> mhall119, because that's used for other actions
[14:32] <mhall119> davidcalle: the result was that the ARB is going to maintain source packages for lenses and scopes
[14:32] <Daekdroom> mhall119, I'm pretty sure I'm not using Super + Shift + Arrows , and yet...
[14:32] <mhall119> Daekdroom: hmmm, I thought it was dynamic
[14:32] <Daekdroom> It used to be, I think
[14:33] <Daekdroom> unity (5.4.0-0ubuntu2) precise; urgency=low
[14:33] <Daekdroom>   * 01_hardcode_new_default_in_hardcoded_values.patch:
[14:33] <Daekdroom>     - hardcode the new default value for switching between workspaces and      moving a window between workspaces. Unfortunatly, this is still a     harcoding. Opened an upstream bug so that the real values are read      instead with some guidance.
[14:33] <mhall119> davidcalle: I'd like to submit your graphics design lens and some of it's scopes as sourcecode-only through MyApps, so they can try it using this new process
[14:33] <Daekdroom> So it's specific for those two shortcuts.
[14:33] <didrocks> some of them are hardcoded
[14:33] <didrocks> the ones with <something> + arrows
[14:34] <didrocks> as there is no "arrows" keyshortcut
[14:34] <didrocks> every of them are 4 keys
[14:34] <Daekdroom> Makes sense.
[14:34] <didrocks> my suggestion is to pick on
[14:34] <kklimonda> I can obviously change keyboard mappings so it's not a big deal *to me* but I really think this is a bad key combination, it pretty much shadows what emacs does with shortcuts like M-x C-x f etc. and those shortcuts are actually linked to some hand injuries ;)
[14:34] <didrocks> (like what is assigned to <something> + Up?)
[14:34] <didrocks> and remove Up
[14:34] <didrocks> ading arrows
[14:34] <didrocks> adding*
[14:34] <didrocks> the probability the others are not correct is small :)
[14:35] <mhall119> kklimonda: please tell me "Emacs Finger" is an actual medical term now
[14:35] <ppd> using super with ctrl and alt would actually help in this case ;-)
[14:36] <ppd> would be even easier then to move a window to another workspace
[14:37] <kklimonda> mhall119: that would actually be awesome ;)
[14:39] <mhall119> kklimonda: surely anybody who has to use emacs regularly needs prescription pain-killers
[14:40] <davidcalle> mhall119, so there is going to be some sort of huge branch for each lens, producing the lens and every scopes packages for it.
[14:40] <kklimonda> mhall119: don't know about users, but I'm pretty sure all emacs devs suffer from it ;)
[14:40] <mhall119> davidcalle: yes, they'll still be separate binaries, but one source package per lens that the ARB maintains
[14:41] <kklimonda> seb128: what about super+alt? it seems no one has yet called dibs on this combination ;)
[14:41] <mhall119> so the lens author doesn't need to add scopes themselves
[14:41] <kklimonda> ctrl+super also looks free
[14:41] <davidcalle> mhall119, ok. If the ARB can do it this way, it's going to be great. No packaging, just a .scope file, a .service file and a daemon.
[14:41] <mhall119> davidcalle: yup
[14:41] <davidcalle> mhall119, awesome :)
[14:42] <mhall119> davidcalle: is the graphics design stuff working on Oneiric?
[14:42] <davidcalle> mhall119, about the graphic design lens, let me update it for Precise this afternoon.
[14:42] <davidcalle> this (european) afternoon :)
[14:42] <mhall119> davidcalle: they're only doing Oneiric stuff right now
[14:42] <davidcalle> Oh ok
[14:42] <mhall119> they won't take Precise submissions until closer to release
[14:42] <seb128> kklimonda, super-alt is "move to ws"
[14:42] <mhall119> so if it's working on Oneiric, go ahead and submit it
[14:42] <seb128> ctrl-super would work I guess
[14:43] <davidcalle> mhall119, sounds fine, I'm on it.
[14:44] <mhall119> thanks
[14:57] <jokerdino> bilal: pinging you regarding bug 938748
[14:59] <snadge> +1 new shortcut for changing workspace and moving windows.. sucks
[15:00] <snadge> stop messing with things for no good reason
[15:00] <snadge> it annoys people
[15:01] <snadge> shift+super is way more awkward.. and i keep trying to shift workspaces and move windows the old way
[15:01] <Daekdroom> Have you considered changing it back?
[15:01] <snadge> no.. i've considered punching the person who changed it in the face though
[15:01] <snadge> and calling them nasty names
[15:02] <Daekdroom> Y'know, people here were discussing those shortcuts some minutes ago, and it seemed a much better discussion than 'I've considered punching the person who changed it'
[15:02] <snadge> sometimes violence is the simplest way to resolve a dispute
[15:03] <Daekdroom> I don't think punching a developer will get them to change the software to suit your tastes.
[15:03] <Daekdroom> (despite punching someone being a cathartic action)
[15:04] <snadge> well they've obviously made up their mind that the new way is worth irritating hundreds if not thousands of people
[15:04] <snadge> for the sake of a couple of retards
[15:04] <snadge> or whatever the weak excuse is
[15:06] <snadge> its going to be hilarious when 12.04 finally drops.. dodge has been killed, the shortcuts have changed etc
[15:07] <snadge> even more people will dump unity.. i just hope those changes will entice more people to use unity.. than existing people get annoyed and use something else
[15:07] <jokerdino> just because the shortcuts changed doesn't mean you can change it back. if you want, you can revert back. no one is stopping you from doing that.
[15:08] <Daekdroom> *can't
[15:08] <snadge> are you sure the option to change them back isnt going to get removed in the next build?
[15:08] <snadge> because changing options fails useability testing
[15:08] <jokerdino> thanks for the correct Daekdroom :)
[15:09] <Daekdroom> The options are in CCSM, so why remove them?
[15:10] <mhall119> jokerdino: he's probably in school right now
[15:10] <snadge> i have a kind of ocd and im lazy.. if i have to change those options every time i re-install ubuntu.. or use a different installation of ubuntu
[15:10] <snadge> i have to weight that up vs the effort of getting used to the new way of doing it
[15:11] <snadge> its easier to get angry at the person who made the change in the first place
[15:11] <jokerdino> mhall119: i just pinged him to let him know, not warranting an immediate response
[15:11] <mhall119> snadge: your changes should be stores in your home directory, so re-installing Ubuntu shouldn't change them as long as you don't blow away your home directory
[15:12] <snadge> i use ubuntu on about half a dozen different systems
[15:12] <mhall119> UbuntuOne syncing, FTW
[15:12] <jokerdino> +1
[15:12] <snadge> so that means i have to change 8 shortcuts.. that many times.. at *least* once.. presuming that ubuntu never fails.. and i never have to reset any of those settings.. like that will never happen
[15:12] <mhall119> though that might not always work well, if they're significantly different machines
[15:14] <mhall119> snadge: there's several ways you could automate that if it's really a big inconvenience
[15:14] <snadge> just because someone woke up one day and though.. i know what would be a good idea.. changing the default shortcut.. yes.. thats an excellent idea
[15:14] <snadge> or i could just punch the person who made the change in the face.. and be done with it
[15:14] <mhall119> snadge: changes like that aren't made on a whim
[15:14] <mhall119> snadge: again, you'll get much more help from people if you are respectful towards them
[15:14] <snadge> they can experience at least a fraction of the pain they have caused others.. and then perhaps reconsider that decision
[15:15] <Daekdroom> Isn't it possible to create a script that changes the shortcuts through dconf (or is it gconf?) so all he'd have to do is run 'sh (something)'?
[15:15] <Daekdroom> I don't think breaking their pinky fingers is going to help them change the shortcuts back..
[15:15] <snadge> well generally being nasty to people isnt a good way to get them to do something you want
[15:16] <snadge> but when the probability of them going back on a decision.. is approaching zero
[15:16] <snadge> then theres nothing really to lose
[15:16] <mhall119> the probability is approaching zero because you're acting like this
[15:16] <mhall119> not because of the decision
[15:16] <snadge> i cant see.. "changing defaults back to what they were, because snadge doesnt like them"
[15:17] <snadge> in the changelog.. any time soon
[15:17] <mhall119> "because snadge doesn't like them" isn't a valid reason
[15:17] <mhall119> why doesn't snadge like them?
[15:17] <mhall119> "because they're not what they've always been" isn't a valid reason either
[15:17] <snadge> well having to play twister to change desktops isn't very appealing
[15:17] <snadge> ctrl-alt is not only familiar.. its easier
[15:18] <mhall119> agreed, and that's been mentioned already, and different possible combinations have been suggested
[15:18] <snadge> and i think the argument of adding shift being too complex.. is invalid
[15:18] <Daekdroom> Unfortunately Crtl + Alt + Shift + Arrow keys is too much too.
[15:18] <snadge> no its not
[15:18] <snadge> because i've been doing that for years
[15:18] <snadge> its exactly the same as changing workspace.. except adding a shift
[15:18] <snadge> its way less confusing
[15:19] <Daekdroom> I personally think that Super + Shift + Arrow keys is the one that needs a change. Super + Alt + Arrow is easy and simple enough.
[15:19] <snadge> ctrl-super i might be able to deal with
[15:19] <snadge> instead of shift-super
[15:19] <snadge> id still prefer it to be the way that it was
[15:22] <snadge> anyway.. i think i'll just defer judgement from now on and try not to get worked up over small changes
[15:23] <snadge> i tried to rage change over to gnome-shell.. but that made me want to cry
[15:27] <snadge> i have to remind myself that its not about me.. or what i want.. its about people who are new to linux.. what those people find easiest to come to terms with, on average
[15:51] <davmor2> hey gord you can't tell if an option is checked in hud :(  see software-center View > New Application in Launcher
[15:53] <gord> davmor2, yup, something for design
[15:54] <gord> we know though
[15:54] <davmor2> gord: is there an existing bug for it?
[16:42] <goganchic> hi2all
[16:45] <goganchic> I want to hack unity global menu and make it always visible, not only when mouse is over. So I want to find out where should if find code responding for hide/show procedure? I try to find it in indicator-appmenu package, but found only code for showing menus/submenus, but not whole global-menu. So can anybody help me to solve this problem?
[16:47] <goganchic> as I understood, global menu - is like other unity indicators, system place it on top panel at the left side
[16:47] <gord> goganchic, "bzr branch lp:unity" and look in the plugins/unityshell/src/Panel*.cpp files is your best bet
[16:47] <goganchic> gord, ok, I'll try
[16:58] <mhall119> mhr3: ping
[17:00] <mhr3> mhall119, sup
[17:01] <mhall119> mhr3: hey, question about Keywords in .desktop files
[17:01] <mhall119> are they case-insensitive?
[17:01] <mhall119> can I use all lower-case for them?
[17:01] <mhr3> mhall119, you mean for them to be searchable by unity?
[17:02] <mhall119> and do you happen to know if X-AppInstall-Keywords can be re-named to Keywords, or does it serve a different function?
[17:02] <mhall119> mhr3: yes
[17:02] <mhr3> mhall119, it shouldn't matter for the indexer
[17:02] <mhall119> ok
[17:02] <mhall119> thanks
[17:03] <goganchic> If I have installed unity and I want to try some custom unity code should I install all dependencies (Nux, Compiz, etc.) into /opt/unity directory or I can install only unity in /opt/unity ?
[17:03] <mhr3> mhall119, and yea, i think AppInstall keywords are for something slightly different, you should check with software-center people
[17:03] <mhr3> mhall119, perhaps davmor2 would know ^^
[17:07] <davmor2> mhall119: try mvo or achuni
[17:11] <davmor2> mhr3: mhall119 I don't have much to do with the inner workings of a .desktop file,  mvo will most likely know or be able to point you at a reference if not
[17:12] <davmor2> and mhall119 beat me to it on software-center :)
[17:24] <nhaines> Is there a reason right-click context menus are all bright grey now instead of dark grey?
[17:24] <nhaines> I thought it was just a broken theming sort of thing but now I'm starting to wonder.
[18:25] <Chauncellor> Hey, there's an old wishlist bug for Unity's launcher to get docky-like mouse-over magnification. Would the mailing list be a better place to bring this bug up for them to accept/reject the design? bug 751941
[18:44] <nhaines> Chauncellor: couldn't hurt!
[18:53] <mhall119> mhr3: does the Applications lens currently support the Keywords= field?
[18:54] <mhr3> mhall119, trunk, yea, 5.4 no
[18:55] <mhall119> ok, so it's not easily tested yet
[19:23] <cjohnston> Bringing Bug #940085 in here for discussion/comments from design.
[20:38] <thomi> bschaefer: ping?
[20:55] <bschaefer> thomi, hey!
[20:55] <thomi> bschaefer: hi - one of our pinyin tests is failing - I wonder if you could take  alook at the test log and see if the test is broken, or unity is broken?
[20:55] <thomi> bschaefer: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/dx-autopilot-run/420/label=1EBEE0FF-DAC9-11DF-BBDA-64A98C34D485/testReport/junit/autopilot.tests.test_ibus/IBusTestsPinyin/test_simple_input_internet_/
[20:56]  * bschaefer looks
[20:57] <bschaefer> thomi, hmm interesting, let me grab trunk and run it
[20:58] <thomi> cheers
[20:58] <bschaefer> other then that does ibus work for you in the dash?
[20:58] <thomi> bschaefer: yep
[20:58] <bschaefer> sweet :)
[20:58] <thomi> bschaefer: the latest jenkins run has a few more failures: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/dx-autopilot-run/421/testReport/
[20:59] <thomi> bschaefer: it seems the ibus tests are getting less table as time goes on :(
[21:00] <bschaefer> hmm interesting, yeah im running the test right now and the dash isent closing
[21:00] <bschaefer> thomi, hmm odd
[21:01] <thomi> bschaefer: yeah. I wonder if it's sometimes appending the string instead of replacing it?>
[21:02] <thomi> I notice that the mismatched string is always longer than we're expecting, so maybe it's being concatenated with the previous text in the dash?
[21:02] <bschaefer> thomi, yeah what it looks like to me is the dash sometimes doesn't close!
[21:03] <bschaefer> thomi,  I ran the simple_input_test and this was the entire string
[21:03] <bschaefer> 阿布从照片互联网磁盘磁盘管理
[21:03] <bschaefer> it wasn't getting closed and refreshed
[21:03] <bschaefer> if you split it up it makes the correct strings though haha
[21:03] <thomi> hmmm, ok. I'll try and fix that today. Thanks :)
[21:04] <bschaefer> thomi, no thank you! Ill also look at the ctrl + x test to see whats up with that!
[21:04] <thomi> cheers
[21:06] <bschaefer> thomi, hmm ran the ctrl + x test 10 times now and it passes each time.
[21:06] <thomi> bschaefer: it probably only fails if you run it as part of the whole suite
[21:06] <bschaefer> and the dash closes correctly
[21:06] <bschaefer> o yeah, let me try that
[21:06] <thomi> probably something similar to the ibus tests - maybe the dash isn't closing when it should
[21:10] <bschaefer> thomi, hmm running test_dash works, ill go up another level!
[21:11] <bschaefer> i guess you cant
[21:11] <bschaefer> thomi,  but if it runs the ibus test first, something might get stuck where the dash doesn't close
[21:12] <thomi> bschaefer: OK, I'll take a look - just on a call ATM
[21:12] <bschaefer> thomi,  no worries, just trying to give as much info as ill be starting to work on something else soon :)
[21:12] <thomi> no worries, thanks for your help
[21:13] <bschaefer> no problem, test coverage is very important!
[21:31] <rye_> hm ,i searched for gimp in app lens and got http://ubuntuone.com/5KBmbge9N2ldJ7m21qJSEN - gimp, krita, krita, krita. Then I installed gimp and I have krita, krita(selected) and krita available for installation
[21:52] <mhall119> rye_: what version of Ubuntu?
[21:52]  * mhall119 isn't seeing Krita
[21:58] <rye_> mhall119, everything on precise
[22:02] <rye_> mhall119, moreover, this is after fresh install (x86-64)
[22:24] <rye_> aaand here's the second krita picture http://ubuntuone.com/1Ey1vEWqAtLtYxt5tzaYsb
[23:58] <snadge> hmm.. the edge of the second display is sticky
[23:58] <snadge> thats kind of annoying
[23:59] <snadge> ahh its the border in between the 1st and 2nd display.. the mouse kinda sticks on it