inetprogood mornings05:50
plustwoinetpro: hi06:54
Kilosmorning superfly and others07:00
plustwoo/ Kilos07:01
Kiloshiya plustwo 07:02
superflymorning Kilos07:06
=== confluency_ is now known as confluency
darksurferzaGreetings all 08:01
Kiloswhat does GNU mean please10:07
Kilosas in -GNU version of find10:07
Kilos maaz doesnt do a good define on it10:13
MaazKilos: Got it10:13
Kilosoh my10:13
KilosMaaz, forget doesnt do a good define on it10:14
MaazKilos: I didn't know about doesnt do a good define on it anyway10:14
inetproKilos: GNU is a Unix-like operating system that is free software—it respects your freedom.10:27
inetproThe GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop the GNU system. The name “GNU” is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not Unix!”.10:28
Kilosty inetpro good morning to you10:28
inetproKilos: hiho10:29
Kilosgot lotsa wgets to study and must be offline or browser wastes data10:30
Kilosim sure lpi is the wrong place to start with kinux10:30
inetproKilos: you should also see http://www.gnu.org/10:30
inetproKilos: why?10:30
Kilosi dunno when browser opens the html data runs too10:31
inetproKilos: I mean why is lpi the wrong place to start10:31
Kilosoh sorry10:31
Kilosi dont know how to follow what is all in a command yet10:32
inetproKilos: man10:33
inetproman is your friend10:33
Kilosas in --find [-H] [-L] [-P] [-D debugopts] [-Olevel] [path...] [expression]10:33
inetproman man10:33
Kilosman is too advanced for me to understand what they mean all the time10:33
inetproKilos: man is the first thing that you should understand10:34
inetproand one of the most important aspects to understand in the *nix world10:34
Kilosi just wgot this hoping i can understand better10:34
inetproahh... 10:35
* inetpro loves the LDP10:35
inetproam just not sure whether it's still updated as frequently as it once was10:35
Kilos-grrr vodacom10:37
Kilos-i use man all the time inetpro just need to learn how everything fits10:37
Kilos-half or more of man is greek to me10:38
inetproKilos: man man tries to explain it very nicely10:38
* Kilos- looks man man again10:39
=== Kilos- is now known as Kilos
Kilosinetpro, dont forget its maybe like telling you to find the prob with an automatic gearbox or while a fuel injection system isnt working10:43
inetproKilos: with the difference, you have the complete manual in front of you10:44
Kiloslol ya but its in a different language10:44
inetprolearning the language is key10:45
Kilosthats why i be looking for basic study links 10:46
Kilosgot this one too10:46
inetprothat is some freaky poll with no context10:48
inetproKilos: what is that find command you trying to figure out?10:49
Kilosi tried find looked for pidgin, found nothing10:50
KilosPlaces search find lots10:50
inetproKilos: why you looking for pidgin?10:51
Kilosim trying to understand how to string a command together10:51
Kilosbecause i know its here10:51
Kiloslol, n o good looking for something i might not have10:51
Kilosworking through lpi and trying the commands10:52
inetprofind searches the directory tree rooted at each given file name by evaluating the given expression from left to right, according to the rules of precedence, until the outcome is known (the left hand side is false for and operations, true for or), at which point find moves on to the next file name10:52
Kilosit cant find pidgin here. says no files found10:53
inetproKilos: ok let's take a basic example: find /home/kilos/ -name "MyDoc.txt"10:53
Kilosthen i looked at this in man find10:53
Kilosfind [-H] [-L] [-P] [-D debugopts] [-Olevel]10:54
inetproKilos: any or all arguments within [ ] are optional10:55
Kilosfind /home/miles/ -name "MyDoc.txt"10:56
Kilos shows nothing10:56
Kilosdoesnt find look everywhere10:57
inetproKilos: obviously10:57
inetprodo you have a file named exactly "MyDoc.txt"10:57
Kilosif i can give the path to a file then i wouldnt need find10:57
Kilosno sorry10:57
Kilosi try that with pidgin10:58
inetproremember that even "MyDoc.txt", "mydoc.txt", "Mydoc.txt" are all different file names10:58
inetproyou can always say "*MyDoc*.txt"10:58
Kilosyay it finds spanne pidgin10:59
Kilosso gotta tell find to look in /home/miles/ right10:59
inetproKilos: depends on where you want to start searchin11:00
inetproKilos: or you can specify -iname "*something*"11:01
Kilossee thats what i wanna learn. how to use all those extras11:02
inetproKilos: adn then go look at the hundreds of OPTIONS in the man page11:02
Kilosyeah man man is frightening for me11:03
inetproKilos: don't be like a user now11:03
Kilosits like wanting to go drive a car but cant open the door11:04
inetprostart reading at the top left and read from left to right and from top to bottom11:04
Kilosno man i want to learn how11:04
inetproman pages are almost like sheet music11:05
Kilosi cant read sheet music either11:06
inetproThe skill of sight reading is the ability of a musician to perform an unfamiliar work of music upon viewing the sheet music for the first time.11:06
Kilosright. thats my point11:06
Kilosi need to learn how to read and understand whats there11:07
Kilosno good having a manual if you cant understand it11:07
inetproexactly my point11:08
inetprothat is why man man is the first step11:08
inetproman is your friend :-)11:09
Kilosits man man that i dont understand so good11:09
Kilosthats why i was looking for something more user like to teach me how to understand man11:09
inetproKilos: ok, let's do this11:10
inetprotake simple examples of commands you already know11:10
inetprothen go read the man page about each command11:10
magespawnhowdy all11:10
Kilosi know apt-get aptitude rsync11:10
inetprotry to understand each option11:10
Kilosok i look at rsync11:10
inetprothen go back to man man and see what else you still don't understand11:11
Kilosok ty sir11:11
inetproor rather try to understand some options11:11
inetproit's never necessary to understand or remember all options11:12
inetproyou'll be old before you know them all11:12
magespawnand then they will probable change or get added to 11:13
Kiloslol. be?11:13
magespawnold is a point of view11:13
Kiloslol hi magespawn 11:13
Kiloswhen you guys started with linux where did you first start11:14
magespawnif you need i will google commands if the man page is not enough turn that into text and post it online somewhere11:14
Kilosyou surely wouldnt have understood man in the beginning11:15
magespawni started here and with google11:15
Kilosi just need to try learn/understand the basics magespawn 11:16
Kilosgoogle kills my data11:16
Kilosand google never was my friend11:16
magespawnsee above11:16
Kiloswill do ty11:16
magespawnoh that and i tend to try almost everything at some point and have reinstalled ubuntu like a million times11:17
inetproKilos: you're not doing bad at all11:17
inetproyou just can't expect to learn it all in a day11:18
Kilosty inetpro but we skipped the basics and i think i will need basic understanding for the lpi course11:19
* inetpro been doing *nix for more than 15 years and still learning every day11:19
Kilosi kinda know what i need to keep me going here most of the time11:19
magespawnhave just found this and the site is pretty light http://www.openbookproject.net/11:19
inetproat one stage it was like one big black hole11:19
Kilosits to be able to understand lpi i need to dig deeper11:20
inetprothought I'd never get over it and started going back to windows11:20
inetproand then I had to help a customer running apache on solaris11:20
Kiloseish inetpro 11:20
magespawnnothing like the deep end11:21
inetprosudeenly stuff came back and I had to do stuff never done before11:21
inetprowas like I entered a new world11:21
magespawnlike spelling 11:21
Kilosyeah inetpro i have entered this world and without you guys woulda given up long ago11:22
Kilosmagespawn, i go see that site and see what you call light11:23
magespawnalmost no pictures loads pretty fast11:23
Kilos40k to get there11:24
magespawnanybody know if there is a way to do something like ap-cacher-ng for windows?11:25
inetpromagespawn: haha11:25
magespawni'll take that as a NO, then.11:26
inetpromagespawn: what are you trying to do?11:27
magespawncache windows and antivirus updates to limit bandwith uasage11:28
inetpromagespawn: perhaps you are looking at some like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Center_Configuration_Manager11:28
inetprodon't talk about anti-virus updates11:29
* inetpro hates the stuff11:29
inetproso many inefficiencies11:29
Kilosinetpro, what intivirus you use on winsucks11:30
Kilosanti as well11:30
magespawnthere is 4 or 5 computers all running windows and the same anitvirus. so I thought to use a proxy server with a cache program so that updates are only downloaded once11:30
inetproKilos: I don't do windows but I can not avoid it entirely, unfortunately11:30
Kilosavast is a good one and doesnt slow pc too much11:31
Kilosthere is a free version11:31
inetpromagespawn: I guess this is the wrong channel to discuss anything windows related11:31
* inetpro goes to get something to eat11:32
Kilosnot really11:32
inetproMaaz: coffee on11:32
* Maaz flips the salt-timer11:32
magespawnmmm thats true was looking for a linux solution to the problem though11:32
Kilosto help an ubuntu user to fix a win pc for work purposes is part of the community help i feelmacoffee please11:33
KilosMaaz, coffee please11:33
MaazKilos: Done11:33
MaazCoffee's ready for inetpro and Kilos!11:36
KilosMaaz, danke11:36
magespawnmaaz do you do muffins?11:40
Maazmagespawn: I already know stuff about do you11:40
magespawnMaaz you should be a comedian11:44
Maazmagespawn: I already know stuff about you11:44
magespawnbbl 11:46
Kilosi go read my wgets11:51
confluencymagespawn: do you know *how* the updates are downloaded? If they're downloaded through HTPP you can just set up an HTTP proxy like Squid.12:05
magespawni think they are ftp but will check12:13
magespawni see squid will also do ftp12:14
Kilosback again with more. how do i copy paste from a .htm i used wget for14:15
Kilostried elinks and epiphany but cant copy14:16
Kiloshere is the link i wanted14:16
inetproKilos: what do you want to copy?14:17
Kilosall the text inetpro 14:17
Kilosabout find14:17
inetproKilos: why?14:17
inetprojust save that file14:17
Kilosso i have it in my linux folder14:17
Kilosthen i need to open it each time with a browser and go offline14:18
Kilosi copy paste most into gedit files14:18
Kiloshtml's that is14:18
Kiloshtm stubborn14:19
Kilosctrl+c also doesnt work14:19
inetproKilos: what about lynx or elinks14:20
Kilosepiphany has a save as but that saves the same thing14:20
inetproyou can always use your text mode browser14:20
Kiloselinks also cant highlight the text14:20
inetpronee man14:21
inetprowhy do you even want to highlight?14:21
Kiloslol im telling you14:21
Kiloshighlight copy then paste to a gedit file14:21
inetprosave the file as it is to your linux folder and when you want to read it just use elinks myLinuFolder/FindCmd.htm14:22
inetproand if you really want to dump it to a text only version you can just do it with the dump command14:23
Kilosthen it will want to go online to find it again?14:23
kbmonkeyoh hello there geeks14:23
Kiloslo the monkey14:24
kbmonkeyyou wana save the html as text Kilos ?14:24
inetproKilos: elinks -dump -dump-width 125 FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt14:24
Kiloshtm kbmonkey 14:24
Kilosty inetpro 14:24
inetproKilos: be aware that it might not look as nice as when it's html14:24
Kilosi dont care about nice i just wanna read it14:25
inetprooh and you can leave out '-dump-width 125'14:25
inetproKilos: well you can simply read it with elinks without dumping14:25
inetproELinks can handle both local files and remote URLs14:26
kbmonkeyin your browser you file-save and choose 'text only' as the save format14:26
Kilosyeah but thats my prob. gotta open it online first to be able to get it14:27
inetprokbmonkey: same result14:27
Kilosinetpro, im lost now again14:28
inetproKilos: hmm... hoe so?14:28
Kiloswell all i can save is the link right?14:29
inetproKilos: wget http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm && elinks -dump FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt14:29
Kilosso whether i use epiphany or elinks i need to be connected to read it14:29
kbmonkeybecause the htm has images and such to outside urls14:29
inetproKilos: ELinks can handle both local files and remote URLs14:30
inetproKilos: so you save a file to local and start reading it with elinks14:30
Kilosoh is that what that does14:30
kbmonkeyyes, use ellinks to read it, that wont pull any external data in14:30
Kilosty very much14:31
inetprobut Firefox has a lot more functionality14:31
kbmonkeythats a neat trick inetpro, 14:31
Kiloshe isnt bad for a ballie hey?14:31
kbmonkeyfunny, I thought curl would have an option to output plain text14:32
kbmonkeyI use elinks to view the python docs I saved as htm14:32
inetproelinks is actually very nice for preparing a text email message with content from a web page14:33
kbmonkeyfinally I got mutt working. happy dance14:34
* inetpro been there done that14:34
* inetpro prefers a GUI for mail these days14:35
kbmonkeysync mail to local offline imap server14:35
kbmonkeywhat mua do you use inetpro?14:36
inetprokbmonkey: thunderbird14:36
magespawnlater all wife here to take me home14:36
kbmonkeycheers magespawn 14:36
* kbmonkey likes thunderbird a lot14:36
inetprobye magespawn14:36
Kilosinetpro, somethink wrong there14:38
Kilossays it cant find the /home part so doesnt try get it14:38
Kilosmust i first go direct to the link with elinks then where?14:38
inetproKilos: please show the exact commands you used14:41
Kilos wget http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm && elinks -dump FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt14:42
inetproKilos: and the error?14:43
Kilosgeez i cant even copy paste that here14:44
kbmonkeythat runs perfect on my side :/14:45
kbmonkeyperhaps a connection hiccup?14:45
Kilosunable to retrieve file ///home/miles/wget/ and all the rest14:45
Kilosit looks like its looking here not online14:45
Kilosdid it twice14:46
kbmonkeythat the *exact* same as what you run?14:46
Kilosvodacom always fulla hiccups14:46
Kilosnpe i run the epollock one14:46
Kilos wget http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm && elinks -dump FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt14:47
inetproKilos: please paste the whole thing in a pastebin14:47
Kilosthe error inetpro 14:47
kbmonkeyyes the error14:48
Kiloscant copy paste that error message, doesnt highlight14:48
kbmonkeyhold shift when you select14:48
inetproKilos: that doesn't make sense 14:48
Kilosshift helped14:49
kbmonkeysee, this ballie knows ;)14:50
Kilosi cant copy paste from epiphany to here either need to copy paste to gedit file then copy oaste from there14:50
inetproKilos: that whole command should all be on a single line14:51
Kilosit was inetpro 14:51
Kilosthats the error you see14:51
kbmonkeythere should not be file://...14:51
inetproKilos: what terminal are you using?14:51
kbmonkeyalso, you're missing a slash in http://14:51
inetproand why is it centered like that?14:51
Kilosbourne i think14:51
inetprokbmonkey: ahh, you found it14:52
inetproKilos: the terminal is not the shell14:52
Kilosoh my14:52
* inetpro is guessing that you are using the standard gnome-terminal which should just allow you to highlight, right-click and choose copy14:53
Kilosthen i dunno what you are asking me about the terminal14:53
Kilosya like that14:54
inetprothen in your irc app you should be able to just press Ctrl+V or right-click and click paste14:54
Kilosctrl+c to copy14:55
inetproKilos: you can not use CTRL+C in the terminal14:55
Kilosctrl+v doesnt work on the browsers14:55
inetproit is meant for cancelling stuff14:55
Kilosfrom here i mean14:55
Kilosin here i have to ctrl+c to copy14:56
kbmonkeyin a term, you usually use ctrl-shift-c/v to copy and paste14:57
Kilosno in here14:57
Kilosoh i see what you are saying14:57
inetproin konsole on Kubuntu I can simply highlight with the mouse to copy and middle-click to paste14:59
Kilosdunno where the single / comes from, its not in my 14:59
kbmonkeytypos are the gremlins plaything ;)14:59
Kilos wget http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm && elinks -dump FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt15:00
kbmonkeydoes it work?15:00
Kilosit only shows in the error15:00
kbmonkeyI ran your line, it works fine.15:01
inetproKilos: clearly you are doing something wrong when pasting the command15:01
kbmonkeyhave you tried the second link?15:02
inetproI thing you missed the wg15:02
inetproyour command started with et15:02
inetproUnable to retrieve file:///home/miles/et 15:03
Kilosok i look again15:03
inetproit can not find et in your /home/miles folder15:03
Kiloset went home15:03
Kiloswget http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm && elinks -dump FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt15:04
Kilosthat is what i copied here15:04
Kilosand pasted in elinks15:04
Kilosthen i get that error message15:04
kbmonkeyno Kilos, don't paste that in elinks :/15:04
kbmonkeypaste it in gnome-terminal15:04
kbmonkeyit is a command you have to run :)15:05
Kilosgoodness gracious me15:05
kbmonkeywow you had us really confused there!15:05
Kilosi should know that15:05
inetproeish!... now I also get why it is centered 15:06
Kilosi wget all i can, dunno where i lost the link in the noggin to terminal15:06
Kilosyip it works kiff, ty inetpro kbmonkey 15:07
kbmonkeyhe he15:07
kbmonkeyhang on, ill wrap it in a alias for you...15:07
Kilosmy head?15:07
inetproKilos: just note that when you execute the wget to the same URL it will create multiple files15:07
inetproso specifying -O for output is sometimes better15:08
Kilosi wont go there again as i have it now15:08
kbmonkeywell its a neat command I wana alias myself15:08
Kiloswhat does -O do15:08
inetproin other words wget -O Find.htm http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm15:08
inetproor rather wget -O FindCmd.htm http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm15:09
inetproKilos: see the man page and look at -O/--output-document=file15:10
inetproman wget15:10
Kilosok ty\15:10
inetproKilos: oh and you don't have to run the wget and the elinks all in one line 15:11
inetprobut the && is there so that elinks will only run if wget was succesfull 15:12
Kilosso if i go to that file in home and double click it it will open with elinks and not go online?15:13
inetprobut you can simply leave the && and start a next line with just 'elinks -dump FindCmd.htm > FindCmd.txt'15:13
inetproafter having run 'wget -O FindCmd.htm http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm'15:14
inetprooh and don't expect any output from elinks because you've redirected it to a file15:15
Kilosthat command went online again15:15
* Kilos cries15:15
inetproKilos: it's just 24K15:16
Kilosyeah but thats twice its done that15:16
kbmonkeywhats the struggle?15:16
inetproKilos: what bundle do you use?15:17
Kilosexcuse me?15:18
inetproKilos: which 8ta / Voda bundle did you purchase?15:18
Kilosoh sorry voda. head still locked on wget15:18
inetproKilos: which bundle size?15:18
Kilosthe 250m one15:19
inetproMyMeg 250 Standard?15:19
Kilosthats it15:19
kbmonkeyoh my word, aliases do not accept parameters!15:19
Kiloswas from your kind donation a while back member15:20
kbmonkeysure you can append to an alias inline, but not use $115:20
inetprokbmonkey: he just wasted 1c15:20
Kilosdouble clicking that file works kiff15:20
Kilosha ha ha15:20
Kilosthey add up inetpro 15:21
inetproKilos: 24K = 0.96c15:21
kbmonkeyah visitors, i'll have to run for a while15:22
Kilossave a penny buy a farm15:22
Kilostoods kbmonkey 15:22
kbmonkeyi made a file tget (text-get) that does all that for us15:22
kbmonkeysave that in your path, make it executable, and just tget a url to text :)15:23
Kilosgreat too15:23
inetproMaaz: 99/250000*2415:23
Maazinetpro: 0.00950415:23
kbmonkeyoh here it comes...15:23
kbmonkeycioa inetpro. laters15:24
kbmonkeyKilos: laters maat15:24
Kilos Disconnected (Remote host closed socket15:24
Kiloshow come i could come back so quick without getting a tail15:25
Kilosdankie inetpro sien jou miskien vanaand. baie om deur te werk nou15:27
Kilosry veilig tuis15:27
inetproKilos: np15:27
Kilosha ha alf on the lists is also old and slow15:30
Kiloshiya nlsthzn 15:33
nlsthznHey uncle Kerbero 15:33
Kerberoek is niemand se oom nie btw15:36
Kiloslol hi Kerbero 15:37
Kilossy tab  werk nie mooi nie15:37
Kerberohi oom kilos15:37
Kilosof sy oeie15:37
Kerberoja dit het al baie gebeur15:37
Kiloslater guys15:43
inetproMaaz: tell kbmonkey Just use a function in place of an alias like this: url2txt () { fname="`basename "$1" .htm`.txt"; wget -O - "$1" | elinks -dump -stdin > ./${fname} && echo "Saved $1 to ./${fname} ..."; }15:53
Maazinetpro: Righto, I'll tell kbmonkey on freenode15:53
Kilosevening superfly and other busy geeks17:38
KilosMaaz, coffee on17:38
* Maaz starts grinding coffee17:38
superflyevening Kilos17:38
superflyMaaz: coffee please17:38
Maazsuperfly: Sure17:38
MaazCoffee's ready for Kilos and superfly!17:42
KilosMaaz, thanks man17:42
MaazKilos It gives me great pleasure to serve a bunch of geeks :-)17:42
inetproGoedenavond 17:50
Kiloslo inetpro 17:50
inetproeh Kilos17:50
inetproKilos: BTW, that script from kbmonkey can be improved upon even further17:51
inetprourl2txt () { fname="`basename "$1" .htm`.txt"; wget -O - "$1" | elinks -dump -stdin > ./${fname} && echo "Saved $1 to ./${fname} ..."; }17:52
inetproKilos: excute that and then just save a HTML url to txt as follows 17:54
inetprourl2txt http://omploader.org/vY3cyNg17:54
Kilosin the terminal hey? not elinks17:54
Symmetriaheh powered down everything cause of stupid size thunderstorm outside, god its getting vicious17:56
Symmetriajust my notebook and my wireless ap and my dsl modem still powered up now17:56
inetproSymmetria: where?17:56
Symmetriaeast london17:56
inetproKilos: yes, in the terminal17:56
Symmetriaheh, it was 35C here today and high humidity, was expecting a nasty storm17:56
inetproSymmetria: tell the guys at https://twitter.com/#!/SAWDOS117:57
inetprobut I see they know about it since an hour ago17:58
inetproTSO - Fairly intense thunderstorms currently active between Port Elizabeth and East London. 17:58
inetproKilos: one thing you need to be careful about, regarding our elinks dump command is that if you already have a file with a similar name it will overwrite18:01
Kilossimilar in what sence inetpro 18:02
Kilossimilar or same18:02
inetprothe redirection > character is not very forgiving18:02
inetproKilos: same18:02
inetproit will overwrite with no warning18:03
Kilosok so if anything is different it wont overwrite hey18:03
inetproSymmetria: lol?18:04
Symmetriapowered off all my stuff and next minute my folks who live in the main house are like THE DSTV DIED! Im like, yeah, I just powered off the primary xtraview decoder :P18:04
Symmetriamy mom is like BUT ISIDINGO HASNT FINISHED! 18:04
Kilosim not sure what you mean with that last bit - url2txt http://omploader.org/vY3cyNg18:04
inetproKilos: url2txt http://content.hccfl.edu/pollock/Unix/FindCmd.htm18:08
Kilosinetpro, i have downloaded that  link of apies and run your command18:08
Kilosget messages like this18:08
KilosResolving omploader.org... Warning: Deprecated option -stdin used!18:08
inetproKilos: ahh... just ignore that18:08
KilosIn the future versions ELinks will report error when you will18:08
Kiloscontinue to use this option.18:08
Kilosoh ok18:08
inetproI don't know why they are taking that out18:09
Kilosso i dont use wget for html's anymore but this tool. is that right18:09
inetproI guess it's not necessary to put -stdin18:10
inetproKilos: it's just a little shortcut to do everything in one18:11
Kiloswithout wget?18:11
Kilosnow i just use url2txt link18:12
inetproKilos: I guess it's better if you just separate the jobs and do it yourself18:14
inetproin fact I still don't see the need for saving the text file18:15
Kilosso i can reread them. i forget membe18:15
Kilosthe texts i save are how to do stuff18:15
inetproKilos: the .htm file is just a text file anyway18:16
inetproyou can save that anywhere you want18:16
inetprothen just read it with elinks18:16
Kilosthats what im gonna do now. much easier than copy/pasting to gedit files everytime18:17
Kilosty for all the hard work and thank the monkey if i miss him please18:17
inetprostep 1: wget http://SOME.URL/whatever.html18:18
inetprostep2: elinks whatever,html18:18
inetproKilos: what hard work?18:19
Kiloswell some of the links i cant/couldnt copy18:20
Kilosnow methinks shift highlight will work18:20
Kilosbut wget is much fasterthan going to a link first18:21
Kilosand more frugal18:21
Kiloshehe nice word that18:21
Kiloshope its right18:21
Kilosnight all. sleep tight19:08
* Symmetria ponders publishing an article on myadsl that will piss off all the networking contractors in the country19:17
inetproSymmetria: what are you up to?19:20
Symmetriaheh inetpro just been looking at the way isps on this continent are using technical contract companies to do technical crap19:21
Symmetriaand its really scary19:21
Symmetriabecause no one is actually enforcing proper policies and procedures on these guys19:22
Symmetriaso within a month or 2, the contracting company has no idea how their own network is running anymore19:22
inetproSymmetria: that is very true19:22
SymmetriaIve seen companies do truely bizarre things, like, outsource their network authentication system, the system that actually allows people access to the network to configure anything19:22
inetprovery scary indeed19:23
Symmetriaso you've given the contractor the ability to control who can and cant work on your network19:23
Symmetriathats bizarre 19:23
inetprohow do you fix it?19:23
Symmetriainetpro proper policies and procedures, proper change control, proper change advisory boards 19:24
Symmetriaand people who are in house actually reviewing what these contractors are doing and reviewing the changes they are making19:24
inetprohmm... 19:25
inetpronot sure it's that simple19:25
Symmetriaheh, its that simple if the documents are correctly written, writing them correctly though is tricky19:25
Symmetriaif I look at documents Ive written for other clients, particularly around the change control stuff19:26
Symmetriathere is a standard list of changes that contractors are authorised to perform, but when they actually use that list, they have to inform people as to what they did and why19:26
Symmetriaif it aint on that list, it has to go through an advisory board 19:26
Symmetriathe advisory board demands a series of documentation before it will look at something19:27
Symmetriathe advisory board purely advises though, they act as an advisory mechanism to the change control manager 19:27
inetproit's much easier to take the shortcuts and just do it :-)19:27
SymmetriaIF the advisory board though realizes that the change could have strategic/political/financial complications though it goes to an authorization board and the change manager doesnt have the right to decide 19:28
Symmetriainetpro heh, yeah, I sorted that out as well19:28
Symmetriaanyone violating that process = contract breach, HEAVY penalties on the contractor company 19:28
Symmetriaget caught violating that process and first time, its a financial penalty, second time, its a bigger financial penalty, third time its contract termination19:29
Symmetria*shrug* harsh, but effective 19:29
inetproSymmetria: I'm afraid that it's not necessarily the contractors who are at fault19:30
Symmetriaheh there are some nifty things you can put in there, like, if you make an unauthorised change that results in us violating the SLA to any client, YOU are responsible for covering the cost of SLA penalties to every client affected19:30
Symmetriainetpro heh, not always, but from what I'm seeing, its very very common at the moment19:30
inetprobecause they get away with it19:31
Symmetriathe contractors have realized there is a skills shortage, they have the contracts, and as a result, they think they can get away with anything and create job security by never letting anyone know what they are doing19:31
Symmetriainetpro yeah, they get away with it because of lack of proper policy and procedure19:31
Symmetriainetpro Im not saying all contractors are bad, or to stop using them19:32
SymmetriaIm saying tighten the controls around them19:32
inetprowell it's not the job of contractors to set and regulate the policies and procedures19:32
Symmetria:) correct, thats the responsibility of the parent companies 19:32
Symmetriathough it could be argued there is also a responsibility on the contractor to keep the contracting party informed of exactly what you are doing19:33
inetprolots of opportunities for work19:35
Symmetriayeah :) lol, I will admit, I have a bias towards saying these things19:36
Symmetriabecause I write a lot of those policies and procedures for companies :P19:36
inetproSymmetria: how long are you in the country for?19:36
Symmetriainetpro *shrug* no idea at this point, I come and go, Im in cambridge week after next for a week for example19:37
Symmetriaat this point in my life I dont really wanna be tied to any one place, and the work I do can be done from anywhere 19:37
inetprohmm... 19:38
* inetpro thought Symmetria went to go an retire somewhere in Africa19:38
Symmetriaheh I was up there for a while, now Im back here, *shrug* move as I feel like, and based on a raft of situations etc19:39
Symmetrialike I say, my clients are distributed all over the place 19:39
Symmetriaand I work mainly remotely19:39
inetproand the woman in your life?19:39
Symmetriaso *shrug* whatever fits the mood 19:39
Symmetriaheh no woman in my life presently19:40
inetprosorry to hear that19:40
Symmetrialol Im not, Im free to shag whoever I want this way :P19:41
inetproSymmetria: BTW, why would anybody be upset if you write about the topic?20:23

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