[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[17:02] <wendar> morning all
[17:03] <wendar> the news for the week, there is a very cool graphic design Lens coming up this week for Oneiric
[17:03] <wendar> it's in the ARB PPA if anyone would like a preview
[17:04] <wendar> https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+archive/staging
[17:04] <wendar> (It searches COLOURlovers, Deviantart, Dribbble, and Iconfinder)
[17:07] <wendar> I ran across this site by the Stanford Design School this week: http://dschool.stanford.edu/use-our-methods/
[17:12] <wendar> Would anyone else be interested in talking through these, kind of like a "book club" for design techniques?
[17:18] <thorwil> at first sight, that reminds me of ideo
[17:21] <thorwil> wendar: not quite sure how a "book club" for design techniques would be supposed to work
[17:22] <wendar> thorwil: there's a good chance ideo and the stanford design school are connected, ideo has a location in Palo Alto, where Stanford is located
[17:23] <wendar> thorwil: I've gotten as far as thinking: I'd like to learn more about design techniques. What if I took one of those a week, studied it, practiced it.
[17:23] <wendar> thorwil: and then: wouldn't it be great if I could talk to others who were doing the same?
[17:23] <wendar> like, in a google hangout
[17:24] <wendar> and, when I ran out of those simple slides, maybe go on to some actual design books
[17:25] <thorwil> ah, like being a student ... ;)
[17:25] <wendar> yeah, kind of, but for fun :)
[17:25] <wendar> and, something interesting to talk about
[17:27] <thorwil> i see the appeal. meanwhile, i feel like i have enough theory and need to sink my teeth into a project (outside of work)
[17:28] <wendar> what kind of projects interest you?
[17:29] <thorwil> wendar: i have a very concrete interest in ardour. it's all about scheduling and discipline, now
[17:29] <thorwil> wendar: other than that, i still wonder how to spread design thinking in our circles
[17:30] <wendar> thorwil: ardour, as in ardour.org?
[17:30] <thorwil> yes
[17:31] <wendar> thorwil: looks like an interesting project to take on
[17:31] <wendar> thorwil: and, yes, I'm also wondering how to spread design thinking, but not sure how
[17:31] <thorwil> it already has a bit of my fingerprints on it. recent happenings in development suggest a lot to explore
[17:32] <wendar> thorwil: very cool
[17:33] <wendar> ideas spread by thinking about them, talking about them, putting them into practice
[17:33] <thorwil> as an example project where one could showcase process, ardour has the drawback of requiring quite a bit of context ... though maybe that's an advantage in another way
[17:34] <wendar> thorwil: I'd certainly be interested to see what you've done, and what you're thinking of doing next
[17:35] <wendar> thorwil: and even more, why you did it, and how you went about it
[17:36] <wendar> theory, process, result
[17:37] <thorwil> wendar: quite often it was iteration mockups, with most feedback via irc
[17:38] <thorwil> wendar: but http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/export_design_2007-08-11.pdf includes what could be called research
[17:38] <thorwil> the "result" part is a bit tricky, as the export stuff has been implemented in something like a finnish summer of code
[17:39] <thorwil> and it's only in ardour 3.0, currently going through betas
[17:42]  * wendar reading through...
[17:43] <wendar> thorwil: so, you started with a user survey? then outlined the features in detail
[17:44] <wendar> what the features are, and why they're used
[17:44] <wendar> as well as the greatest requests from users
[17:45] <thorwil> wendar: to be precise, the start was defining what the essence is of what is to be designed. setting the scope
[17:45] <thorwil> pretty much what is in Introduction
[17:46] <wendar> which is the export dialog
[17:46] <wendar> and, page 7 starts looking at the current dialog in detail
[17:47] <wendar> with detailed notes on what could be improved
[17:48] <thorwil> yes, though i like to be mindful of the abstract vs concrete view, where the dialog is not the initial object and has to be questioned
[17:49] <wendar> explain abstract vs concrete?
[17:49] <thorwil> even if the answer to "do we need a dialog" seems obvious, the question has to be there
[17:49] <wendar> and initial object?
[17:49] <thorwil> the design briefing is not to design a dialog, but to design the export functionality
[17:50] <wendar> the abstract view, then, is to step away from the design artifact in front of your face, and think more deeply
[17:50] <wendar> ?
[17:50] <thorwil> so i try to keep design decisions out of the core of the briefing
[17:51] <thorwil> ah yes, artifact is helpful term here
[17:51] <wendar> by "initial object" you mean something like "starting point" or "root of the work"?
[17:53] <thorwil> yes
[17:54] <thorwil> recently one developer said "oh we could ask thorwil" (about a problem discussed before i went online), "but i'm sure he will come up with a good solution that will be too much work". – directly linked to being very methodically, i guess :)
[17:54] <thorwil> dinner, cya!
[17:55] <wendar> cya, thanks for the interesting chat
[17:55] <wendar> oh, looks like "initial object" is a term that started in mathematics
[17:55] <wendar> thorwil: and really, being methodical is quite necessary in design
[18:00] <wendar> Happy Leap Day everyone!
[18:28] <thorwil> heh, i was fishing for words, my maths education is rather weak (and even now my interest there is 'limited' to what seem useful for programming
[19:39] <nava> What do you think about this idea ? http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29302/
[20:56] <etneg> kenvandine: hey
[20:56] <etneg> any update on gwibber?
[20:57] <kenvandine> etneg, sorry, no... i guess i really need to spend some time reviewing all the feedback and make a decision :)
[20:58] <kenvandine> the new artwork would be for 12.10 anyway, not 12.04
[20:58] <kenvandine> etneg, thanks for everything, i promise to do that soonish... this time in the cycle is crazy
[20:59] <etneg> oh ok cool
[20:59] <etneg> if you need more, let me know