thumperah... I think didrocks made one00:12
thumperI should probably check00:12
thumperI feel like I'm under a pile here00:12
bschaeferim not sure if/when that needs to be done, I was just checking from you ping yesterday00:14
bschaeferalso that is no good! Hopefully you can get some rest after this week...00:14
thumperwe'll see00:17
thumperI'm trying to fix bugs in the release00:17
bschaefergood luck! Ill hopefully have this panel bug done soon...00:19
bschaeferalso do you know where jay is?00:20
thumperno, sorry00:22
thumpermay have left for the day00:22
thumperit is outside is normal hours00:22
bschaeferalright, hopefully Ill see him tomorrow00:23
=== rsalveti` is now known as rsalveti
mhall119Trevinho: starting to see some keywords merge proposals coming in03:53
=== smb` is now known as smb
htorquehi all! i'd like to add a launcher item for all users and found this in checkbox-unity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/861685/ should that do what i'm looking for or is this just for the current user?09:35
seb128htorque, that's a runtime thing for the current user09:47
htorqueseb128: was afraid it is, thanks.09:48
seb128htorque, the easiest is to do an override for the gsettings com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites key09:48
htorqueseb128: thanks, am looking at the existing overrides now. :-)09:50
seb128htorque, well just define your custom list, I don't think you can append in an override, just copy the default one and add your item in it09:52
htorqueseb128: works fine for new users or when resetting the unity configuration, but what would i do to keep users' configurations and just add the launcher?10:00
htorquemaybe running a migration script (using above snippet) when users log in?10:01
seb128htorque, yes10:02
pawel_st_hi there,10:03
pawel_st_is anybody familiar with com.canonical.AppMenu.Registrat dbus interface?10:03
seb128pawel_st_, hi, you should probably just ask your question10:04
seb128pawel_st_, the people most familiar with it are u.s based and still sleeping but others might be able to reply10:04
seb128otherwise try again in a few hours10:04
pawel_st_ok; so I'm playing with it and trying to get all menus by calling GetMenus(). But I'm not getting anything - instead I see the top panel is being restarted (probably crashes)10:05
pawel_st_so question is, when I get proxy object for com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service and /com/canonical/AppMenu/Registrar, can I just call GetMenus(), or is there an extra step needed10:08
smbHm, anybody else has this? Clicking on the launcher icon usually raises the active applications window (and optionally switches workspaces). Currently I seem to often get no workspace switch and the application window randomly moved (sometimes even between two workspaces). Not all apps but at least firefox and xchat atm...10:30
didrocksseb128: htorque: this snippet is broken in current unity11:36
didrocksseb128: htorque: upstream changed some code and regressed it (look at why it's deactivated in checkbox-unity now)11:36
=== _salem is now known as salem_
htorquedidrocks: thanks for the hint!11:40
didrocksyw :)11:40
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
Lighthorseanyone know were I can get Unity to use with Ubuntu Server 11.10 or is it already installed12:18
om26erbug 94277212:19
ubot5Launchpad bug 942772 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Precise unity-2d launcher auto-hiding out-of-box" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94277212:19
om26erI see that as well12:19
om26erdamn i am so drunk (not exactly) please ignore me :/ I was thinking it something different12:19
LighthorseI would like to switch to a gui instead of command line12:22
Lighthorseas I am still new to this12:23
ryeLighthorse, well, you can get the whole desktop software pack by installing ubuntu-desktop meta-package12:28
LighthorseCool that is what I was looking for12:28
LighthorseOK looking for a download for it thank you12:30
ryeis there a bug about hud stealing focus from applications if it is dismissed by clicking alt again?12:35
ryeoh, i know, hud tag12:35
Lighthorserye, Thanks I did sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop12:44
LighthorseFingers crossed12:44
ryeLighthorse, you are running it locally, right? not over the network?12:44
ryeI mean the Ubuntu Server installation has the monitor attached etc.12:45
LighthorseYes bet it looks like it is getting it from the arcive12:45
LighthorseYes it is a stand alone system12:45
LighthorseI have a win server running now I want to change to Ubuntu so I am figuring this out12:47
Lighthorsebut not great at command line alone12:47
ryeLighthorse, server configuration are mostly done in configuration files though since the servers don't usually run any gui. OTOH getting comfortable with gui first then starting using the terminal is a path I originally went through12:48
LighthorseI like the unity desktop I used with Ubuntu 11.0412:48
LighthorseI figure that also I am used to Unity so I figure I could transform from gui to cli12:49
Trevinhomhall119: cool! thanks for doing that! ;)12:51
LighthorseWOW 650+ files , Hope I am getting the right thing13:01
mhall119Trevinho: glad to13:03
mhall119Nekhelesh has been doing a lot of work lately, with Quicklists and now Keywords13:04
mhall119didrocks: thanks for taking on the keywords MPs13:08
didrocksmhall119: no worry, but we really need to discuss processes and how to announce it :)13:09
didrockstook me 4 hours for something which takes less time doing it ourselves, so let's plan that together for next call!13:09
didrocksnevertheless, I love it, I hope we will have good translations as well13:09
didrocksso that we start having good search results!13:09
mhall119didrocks: agreed, in particular I'd like to figure out how to properly make these package patches in a way I can walk a non-developer through13:10
didrocksmhall119: yeah, quite some work involved here :)13:10
mhall119and 100% agree on needing a tool that'll get the correct branch every time13:10
mhall119didrocks: I'll try the edit-patch process again for the geany keywords13:12
mhall119I'll ping you if I get stuck13:12
didrocksmhall119: do not hesitate! :)13:12
Saviqdidrocks, mhall119 is it possible that we'd have the search in both translated and original strings?13:14
didrocksSaviq: what do you mean?13:15
didrocksah you want to search in both13:15
Saviqdue to the fact that not 100% apps are translated, not 100% keywords would be translated13:15
didrockshum, that's more a question for kamstrup, mhr3 and design13:15
seb128design said no previous cycle13:15
seb128it's confusing for most users because it matches stuff you have no clue about13:15
seb128especially for people who don't know english13:16
Saviqseb128, I can agree with that, but then we need to have higher reqs for translations13:16
Saviqnow I end up with a mx13:16
seb128we have the highest request for translations13:16
seb128hum, mix of what?13:17
Saviqof Polish (in my case) and English strings in .desktop files13:17
Saviqand now it's even more apparent with the hud13:17
seb128example? where in the ui?13:17
Saviqwhere the sound indicator name, for example, isn't translated13:17
seb128that has nothing to do with search13:18
seb128it's just your locale translations not being complete13:18
Saviqseb128, well, it has to do with feeding the search13:18
Saviqseb128, yes, but expecting that I often try both13:18
seb128well, the search just finds what is in menus13:18
Saviqif I fail in PL, I try in EN13:18
Saviqand then sometimes I try in EN to begin with13:18
seb128well, that will be autofixed when the polish translation team complete their translations13:19
Saviqand fail, even though I know it should be there13:19
seb128you can't display nothing13:19
Saviqbut will we ever reach 100% for everything? doubt it13:19
seb128we fallback to display english if not translated13:19
Saviqyes that's great13:19
seb128what else would you suggest? blank text instead?13:19
Saviqno, I'd suggest searching in both translated and original strings13:19
seb128that's confusing over what you describe and it would "punish" stable users where things are translated13:20
Saviqpunish how?13:20
seb128what you suggest optimize for a broken case13:20
* mhr3 agrees with seb12813:20
seb128but confusing them, polish users probably want polish results to be listed, not random match to happen because what that typed happens to be an english word13:20
seb128they might not even know the english word and why what they typed matched that word that has nothing to do with their input13:21
SaviqI do tend to agree that'd be the ideal case, but that's assuming we'll be 100% translated, and we won't13:22
SaviqI do get your argument, though and will now hide in a corner somewhere ;)13:22
seb128Saviq, we have over 90% translations in like over 25 locales13:22
Saviqthat's not 100%, and what's the scope btw?13:22
seb128like all the important strings are 100% translated in a load of locales13:23
Saviqall apps in universe? multiverse?13:23
seb128Saviq, the CD, that includes the whole desktop indicators, unity ui, applications13:23
seb128Saviq, well, why would be undermine the experience on the default install and most used applications just because stuff in the universe are less good?13:23
seb128we optimize for the best experience, we don't level to the worst of what we ship13:24
SaviqI probably simply wouldn't consider that undermining13:24
Saviqbut yeah, compromise13:24
Saviqmaybe I am setting too low a target13:24
seb128well, it means on a 100% official translated polish preinstalled images you would get those weird matching that don't make any sense to polish users13:24
seb128so it sort of undermine our default experience13:25
seb128Saviq, I can see what you say but that's the position which has been taken13:25
seb128I think it's a reasonable one13:25
Saviqyes I understand13:25
SaviqI agree13:25
seb128good ;-)13:26
seb128let's move on13:26
Saviqlets :)13:26
seb128Saviq, you can always use an english locale if you prefer a consistant experience and are fine with english ;-)13:26
Saviqseb128, of course13:27
navaSaviq a good idea for unity http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29302/13:52
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
Saviqnava, sure, sounds good to me, not that trivial, though, but pick it up with design at #ubuntu-design13:53
Saviqas mentioned in the response13:54
navaSaviq thanks,but i think if you discussed it will be better than me ;)13:55
Saviqnava, not really13:55
navaok what should i do ? im on design channel13:56
Saviqnava, best read http://design.canonical.com/2012/02/the-unity-design-process-and-how-you-can-play-a-part-in-it/13:56
Saviqit's from our lead designer for the shell13:56
mhall119gord: do you know if there's any more recent documentation on global menu stuff than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationMenu ?13:57
navaSaviq I read it, but it tell post on brainstorm in part 113:58
mhall119mhr3: ping14:02
mhr3mhall119, pong14:04
gordmhr3, not that i'm aware of14:07
gordmhall119, ^^14:07
mhall119mhr3: are you still waiting on something before moving https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mhr3/Lenses back to the main page for it?14:08
mhr3mhall119, well, 12.04 still isn't released14:08
mhr3so the 11.10 version is still the most revelant14:09
mhall119ah, ok14:09
mhall119mhr3: is what's currently on /Unity/Lenses accurate as of 11.10?14:09
mhall119cool, thanks14:09
pawel_st_Is anyone familiar with com.canonical.AppMenu.Registrat dbus interface? I'm playing with it and trying to get all menus by calling GetMenus(). But I'm not getting anything - instead I see the top panel is being restarted (probably crashes)14:10
pawel_st_so the question is, when I get proxy object for com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service and /com/canonical/AppMenu/Registrar, can I just call GetMenus(), or is there an extra step needed.14:10
mhall119gord: do you know if there's any documentation yet on how to pre-seed the HUD with clues about what menu items a user might be interested in?14:11
gordtedg, ^ ;)14:12
mhall119oh, tedg is here, even better14:12
tedgmhall119, I think the only docs are really my blog post.14:12
mhall119tedg: link?14:13
tedgmhall119, You don't have all the content of my blog memorized?  :-)14:13
tedgmhall119, http://gould.cx/ted/blog/Searching_menus14:13
mhall119I do, I was just checking to see if you did ;)14:14
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
mhall119ok, who are the indicator folks?14:25
mhall119I need updates on the status of documentation for the message and sound indicators14:26
davidcalleloremattei, Launchpad is building Flickr. I'll look tomorrow into the on_search_changed bug. Good job!14:58
lorematteidavidcalle, fine! I'll follow the on_search_changed bug. Thank you!15:30
mhall119davidcalle: ping15:44
davidcallemhall119, pong15:44
mhall119davidcalle: hi, did you submit your graphic design lens to the ARB?15:44
davidcallemhall119, yes, it's done.15:44
mhall119awesome, thanks, let me know how that goes15:45
davidcallemhall119, I will, Allison Randall is reviewing it.15:45
davmor2hey guys are the notifications meant to be BLUE if so my god why?15:45
davidcalledavmor2, it's a bug. What's the colour of your wallpaper?15:46
davmor2davidcalle: it's the default this is on a fresh install the notification was for you have wifi15:46
mhall119seb128: ping15:46
davidcalledavmor2, and all notifications are blue?15:47
davmor2davidcalle: I've only had the 2, there are networks available and you are connected,  I am about to start the fresh install but both have been BLUE15:48
davidcalledavmor2, you can display one with notify-send  (notify-send "some text")15:49
davidcalledavmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/92942515:51
ubot5Ubuntu bug 929425 in Notify OSD "Background colour bright blue" [Medium,In progress]15:51
davmor2davidcalle: this isn't the full desktop yet on the install pages once it is installed properly I'll have a proper play15:52
davidcalledavmor2, ok15:52
mhall119does anybody know if there's been discussion about providing generic "Messages" and "Websites" lenses for Unity?16:46
mhall119mhr3: ^^ ?16:47
mhall119Messages for searching email, chat logs, gwibber messages, etc16:47
mhall119Website for searching browser bookmarks and history16:47
DaekdroomThat one would overlap with the gwibber lenses.16:47
mhall119Gwibber shouldn't have it's own lens, according to our guidelines16:48
DaekdroomWhat are the guidelines?16:48
mhall119I can see the Gwibber lens being a "Microblog" Lens, but I think it would be better to have a broader "Messages" lens16:49
mhr3mhall119, dont know about such discussion16:49
mhall119mhr3: what are your thoughts on it?16:49
mhr3web does make sense16:50
mhr3gwibber is multisource itself, so not sure there16:50
mhall119right, which is why I can see it being specific to Microblogging16:50
mhall119that way you can have Polly, etc, feed it16:50
mhr3but it'd be pretty cool if a lens searched my xchat logs16:50
DaekdroomBtw, is the music lens going to work with Rhythmbox?16:52
mhr3davidcalle will be able to answer that :)16:53
mhall119Daekdroom: Mark Tully has a scope for Rhythmbox: lp:~markjtully/+junk/rhythmbox-scope16:54
davidcallemhr3, I still need your help on this. Or Python.16:55
mhall119oh nice, it also looks like he has a web history lens16:55
davidcallemhall119, he is Teester on irc. He has scopes for every big music player.16:58
mhr3davidcalle, so how far did you get with it?17:00
mhr3last time we were chatting there were quite a few roadblocks17:00
mhr3did you get past those?17:00
davidcallemhr3, db parsing with extraction of title, genre, artist, album, track number, uri. The scope being currently wired to a lot of banshee db related stuff, I'm having a hard time figurint out how to wire these results to it.17:02
davidcallemhr3, an external scope would be much nicer, as it wouldn't need extra work to rebuild an external (and needed) banshee scope.17:03
davidcallemhr3, what do you think?17:09
mhr3i dont like the idea that we'd be shipping a lens that just sits there and requires a remote scope to work by default17:11
davidcallemhr3, it will work for upgraders.17:11
mhr3davidcalle, i'm also not sure what you mean with the second point, can you elaborate?17:11
mhr3extra work to rebuild banshee scope??17:12
mhall119mhr3: you can make the lens package Recommends the scope for the default music player17:12
davidcallemhr3, the music lens needs to keep banshee compatibility. So, I guess it means an external banshee scope, if the internal one is rbox.17:12
mhall119they should both be external, IMO, so you can uninstall the scope for the default music player if you uninstall the default music player17:13
DaekdroomSpecially if the scope package depends on the player.17:13
mhr3while having scopes is awesome, it comes at a cost of resources, i think the default ones need to be careful about those17:14
mhr3davidcalle, and you dont need to do anything about the banshee scope, it should stay the way it is17:15
mhr3it was default 11.10 and i hope it handles banshee not being there well enough17:16
mhr3lamalex, ^^ it does right?17:18
lamalexmhr3, believe so17:18
mhall119I need a little help, does anyone have 5 minutes to explain to me how Unity selects icons for the launcher and alt-tab switcher?17:24
elopioHi unity team.17:26
elopiowhat tool are you using for GUI tests on Unity 3D?17:26
elopioare you using something like Qt testability driver?17:27
mhall119didrocks: ^^ can you answer?17:27
lamalexelopio, we have a tool called autopilot that was written in house17:28
lamalexit's still under quite active development, and its similar to testability17:28
lamalexthe code is in the unity tree17:28
lamalexunder tests/autopilot17:28
elopiolamalex: cool. I'll look at it.17:29
elopiolamalex: any reasons not to use mago?17:29
lamalexyup, if you have questions/comments whatever feel free to ping me17:30
lamalexelopio, yah- lots17:30
lamalexso many17:30
davidcallemhr3, how would you prefer the search to be done on the db? Everything extracted to be stored then search or matching while parsing?17:30
elopiothat's reasuring. I'll see if we can hook into autopilot too.17:31
elopiolamalex: thanks.17:31
lamalexelopio, it's mine so feel free to ask any questions17:31
lamalexelopio, what are you working on?17:31
lamalex(i might be able to tell you if AP will fit or not)17:31
elopiolamalex: I will for sure. I work with Ubuntu One.17:31
lamalexif you're doing web stuff I would use selenium17:32
elopiolamalex: for the website we have the selenium + SST tests working.17:32
elopiofor the control panel, that's Qt for windows and ubuntu we are thinking of testability.17:33
lamalexi would use testability if you're doing Qt17:33
lamalextestability offers so much for Qt applications17:33
elopiofor the integration with Ubuntu, we could use xpresser, mago or this autopilot.17:33
lamalexAutopilot is really specific to unity17:33
lamalexif you need to click on unity bits in automated ways AP is excellent17:34
lamalexbut that's really all it's good for right now17:34
elopiolamalex: we need to test the lenses17:34
elopiothe indicator17:34
elopiolots of stuff.17:34
lamalexyah, AP is probably what you want17:34
elopiobug we also need to test rhythmbox and nautilus17:34
elopiothen this is going to be a not-so-nice mix of tools, probably.17:35
lamalexI've been wanting to try and do a gtk backend thing for autopilot17:35
lamalexto make autopilot also useful for testing gtk apps, but i haven't had time. i think a lot of the code is already written in the gtkparasite module but like i said- purely speculation17:36
elopiolamalex: that sounds really nice. What about for the next week ;)17:36
elopiolamalex: I'll look into the code.17:36
lamalexgo for it!17:36
elopioI'm not the best programmer, and I don't have much time, but I could give you a hand.17:36
mhr3davidcalle, the latter would make the searches take longer than they need to17:37
elopioif we decide that this is the tool for us, it would be easier for me to spend some hours on this. I'll keep bothering you in the near future, for sure :D17:37
=== s9iper1_ is now known as s9iper1
mhall119mhr3: who can I talk to about making sure Unity is using the best possible icons for apps (in the launcher and alt-tab switcher)?18:37
PaoloRotoloHi all!19:16
=== s9iper1_ is now known as s9iper1
PaoloRotolothumper, hi19:54
thumperhi PaoloRotolo19:54
bschaefermorning thumper19:57
thumperhi bschaefer19:59
balloonsafternoon everyone.. did https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz-core/+bug/940139 make it into the unity team ppa yet?21:24
ubot5Ubuntu bug 940139 in Compiz Core "[callgrind] compiz spends about 51% of its CPU time in CompRegion construction/destruction" [High,Fix committed]21:24
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
mhall119balloons: looks like it21:33
mhall119I did a dist-upgrade this morning21:33
mhall119haven't restarted yet, but the compiz-core changelog in /usr/share/doc/ has it listed21:33
mhall119version 1:
balloonskk.. good. I said it was21:34
mhall119declare first, ask later?  I like how you roll mister21:34
balloonsit was "supposed" to be in there21:35
balloonstherefore.. it is in there21:35
thumperI think it is...21:35
mhall119thumper: have you looked at the unity MP graphs lately?21:42
thumperwhat graphs21:43
thumperI have vague recollections21:43
thumperbut I'm fighting a blocking 5.6 bug right now21:43
mhall119average wait time to the first response on an MP has been cut by nearly 2/3!21:43
thumperoh that's good21:44
mhall119it's very good21:44
mhall119the whole team is doing wonderfully on that21:44
mhall119just wanted to make sure you knew :)21:45
seb128mhall119, hey21:56
seb128mhall119, sorry I was out when you pinged earlier and forgot to pong after dealing with backlog21:57
seb128mhall119, small not about your unity list instructions, the OnlyShowIn=Unity needs a trailling ";"21:57
seb128i.e "OnlyShowIn=Unity;"21:57
seb128mhall119, it will work without it but it might trigger parser warnings21:58
mhall119seb128: ok21:59
mhall119seb128: My next target is getting better icons for some apps that are still using low-res raster images21:59
seb128mhall119, good luck22:00
mhall119but I wanted to make sure I had a good understanding of where Unity got them for the Launcher and alt-tab switcher22:00
seb128mhall119, I think icon designers are hard to find ;-)22:00
seb128icons are not easy to draw22:00
mhall119hopefully most upstreams already have hi-res or svg source images for their raster icons22:00
mhall119and it'll just be a matter of asking for them22:01
seb128mhall119, if they do we usually ship those22:01
seb128or they ship svg for those22:01
seb128well at least GNOME do22:01
mhall119some, like libreoffice, seems to have svgs in their packages, but possible aren't using them22:01
seb128mhall119, btw can you fix the wiki as well for the trailing ";"?22:17
mhall119seb128: sure22:17
seb128mhall119, icon, usually unity,GNOME,etc loads whatever is in the theme22:17
seb128mhall119, look at the icon name in the .desktop and find /usr/share/icons -name <iconname>22:18
glosoliAnyone here would like me to explain ?  Mark ditched Unity Dash icon from Unity Indicator Top Left of the screen to Unity Panel. Well it was some kind of ruining look of the system. But then he came with even greater idea...Removed Dodge Window, so now when you maximize window these little MAX MIN CLOSE buttons are just not in the right plays, because if Unity Panel is always shown, you see them in the very top left of the screen, far away from app22:18
seb128or <iconname>*22:18
seb128glosoli, ?22:19
seb128glosoli, the control didn't change much place22:19
seb128there are shifted from the old ubuntu logo width, which is a few pixels22:19
mhall119seb128: right, for libreoffice it appears that libreoffice-writer (specified in the .desktop) is a png, but there is an svg in the same place called libreoffice-oasis-text.svg22:19
mhall119so that would explain it, I suppose22:19
seb128mhall119, try dropping the .png from the .desktop and see if that fixes it22:20
seb128(you might need to restart your session, dunno if bamf reload on .desktop changes)22:20
glosoliseb128: Sure it did. Max Min Buttons now seem not in the right place, and drives me nuts. It looks like a job of somekind of person who learn design things in a day now.22:20
tbf_glosoli: nah... i would not talk that radical22:20
tbf_glosoli: ui design is hard22:21
seb128glosoli, they seem to be in the right place to me22:21
mhall119seb128: the .desktop specified 'libreoffice-writer', which will match the .png, but not the .svg, which is actually named 'libreoffice-oasis-text'22:21
seb128glosoli, it's easier to aim the corner than 30 pixels from the corner22:21
jonoanyone else seeing this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/94363322:21
glosoliseb128: you have autohide maybe ?22:21
ubot5Ubuntu bug 943633 in unity (Ubuntu) "Erratic indicator behavior, possibly after suspend" [Undecided,New]22:21
seb128glosoli, no, I've always on22:21
jonothere is a video on that bug demonsrating the problem22:21
seb128mhall119, that seems a libreoffice bug indeed22:22
glosoliseb128: It just looks nuts, it's the same as having close max min, more left than the whole windows when windows is not maximized.22:22
tbf_glosoli: no idea how big canonical's efforts are, but I've been in projects, where the ui and layout specs had seen almost 100 iterations at the end of the project22:22
seb128mhall119, try editing the .desktop and use 'libreoffice-oasis-text'22:22
glosolitbf_: I have no feelings at judging, so don't new users who would like to try os22:22
glosolitbf_: everything should look perfect.22:23
tbf_seb128: i think although glosoli is using a bit strong words here, he has a point22:23
glosolitbf_: If a student like me realizes it looks bad and drives nuts, how can it attract movies editors when lightworks will be released and etc ?22:23
tbf_seb128: with static launcher dock it indeed looks strange that the window control buttons are shown above the launcher icons instead of the window22:23
seb128tbf_, glosoli: well having them out of the launcher space would mean having to move the menus when the control move there22:23
seb128which would mean the menus wouldn't be at the same place on max or small windows22:24
seb128which is another issue22:24
glosoliseb128: they can be in the same place as window. why not ? why not leaving global menu always shown, and title with button in the window ?22:24
tbf_seb128: when the dash button still was in the indicator panel, things looked are reasonable.22:24
tbf_seb128: yup, hard to get all details right22:24
tbf_seb128: but maybe something to bring to the ui designer's attention22:24
seb128glosoli, because it would mean having to shift the menus location when the button get embedded on the panel22:24
seb128which is not perfect either22:25
tbf_seb128: this kind of guys usually find excellent solutions much faster than us stupid programmers22:25
glosoliseb128: It is not perfect always seeing global menu instead of wasted whitespace for nothing ??22:25
seb128do you lack horizontal whitespace on your panel?22:25
seb128what resolution do you use?22:25
glosolimay I show you a screenshoot how it will ook perfect ?22:25
tbf_glosoli: maybe you can file a nicely and positively worded bug report in launchpad...22:26
glosolitbf_: I will tomorrow because it will be so much writing to do to convince people. :)22:26
seb128glosoli, I understand what you describe, I just say it has other usability issues22:26
tbf_glosoli: ...and once we've got an url, seb128 just forwards that link to his ui design guys?22:26
seb128they read bugs22:26
seb128they don't need me to ping them22:26
seb128just make it affect ayatana-design22:26
tbf_even the better22:26
seb128or better email the design list22:27
seb128it's a better place to have a discussion, too many bugs, they don't read them daily22:27
glosolicheck that link ?22:27
tbf_glosoli: just make sure to keep calm when writing things down22:27
seb128you have a better chance of a discussion on the list22:27
glosolidoesn't it look proper this way ?22:27
seb128no it doesn't22:27
glosolitbf_: I am calm most of the times, but  these little things.. they drive me nuts :D22:28
tbf_glosoli: you definitely have a point, and explained calmly it definitely will influence the design guys22:28
seb128but what tbf_ says22:28
tbf_glosoli: of course nobody can guarantee that you convince them in first go22:28
seb128I doubt they will buy the "menus should always be on screen"22:28
tbf_glosoli: but friendly, nice language is the key.22:28
seb128they try to deprecate menus, those are past century ui bits22:28
seb128i.e read mark's blog post on the hud22:28
glosoliTryed Hud22:28
glosoliit's for power users22:28
glosoliI like it, new users won't22:29
seb128you get no menus on an ipad and users don't hate it22:29
tbf_glosoli: hud rather seems like an experiment or a voice-control enabler22:29
seb128same on an android device22:29
glosoliEven hotkey for HUD is picked bad22:29
glosolihotkey for a lot of plugins is picked bad22:29
tbf_but in the end menubars always were a hack for people incapable of doing proper ui design, that guides users22:29
glosolitbf_: menu bar always shown was in mac os x for what 10 years or more ? Don't know how long, but noone ever cryed for it, because it fullfilled whitespace instead of leaving empty whitespace :)22:30
tbf_glosoli: still makes sense to not show the menubar if you don't interact with it22:31
tbf_glosoli: text glpyhs are very complex, noisy beats22:31
seb128jono, you freedom hater22:31
tbf_glosoli: very much appreciate not seeing them all the time22:31
tbf_(the menubar glyphs)22:31
jonoseb128, freedom sucks22:31
seb128jono, I'm pondering installing a mp4 codec to watch your video or not ;-)22:32
glosolitbf_: Well yes, I don't need them too, tryed LIM, it does the same bad thing as global menu...22:32
tbf_glosoli: that smart hiding of the menubar was one of the things initially buying me into unity22:32
jonoseb128, would you like someone to call you a Whaaaaaambulance?22:32
seb128jono, gtk-recordmydesktop does ogg by default, it doesn't suck ;-)22:32
jonoseb128, I did record it, but no software can trim out that corner of my desktop22:32
jonoso I used Windows22:32
glosolitbf_: it was fine, but when they ditched Dodge Window it made to occur so many GUI cheapeness22:33
jonoso in essence...Free Software sucked for this :-)22:33
seb128jono, gtk-recordmydesktop should work just fine22:33
tbf_i remember having used a linux screen recorder that permits choosing the screen region22:33
seb128jono, is your issue the white rectangle showing sometimes?22:33
jonoseb128, oh, damn22:33
tbf_it could have been something with a stupid name like gtk-recordmydesktop22:33
seb128tbf_, gtk-recordmydesktop does it ;-)22:33
jonoI could have selected the region22:33
jonoseb128, ok...you get one free kick in the balls22:34
jonochoose wisely, left or right22:34
seb128jono, luckily I'm out of kick range since you live in the u.s ;-)22:34
jonoseb128, so I filed that against unity, wasnt sure which other package to file it again22:34
jonoseb128, haha22:34
glosolitbf_:  You understand that thing, that being programmer/design and doing hard job, it cares for you, but it doesn't for user. All they care is that things works as they should and looks nice.  They wouldn't buy a thing just coz you said it was hard to do or had a lot of interrations while picking a gui mockup22:34
seb128jono, so, is your issue the white rectangle stuff?22:34
jonoseb128, the issue is that when I click on an indicator and move the mouse a pixel it loads up the other indicators22:35
jonoseb128, look at where my mouse moves and which indicators load22:35
jonothe video shows it pretty well22:35
seb128oh, right22:35
tbf_glosoli, sure. but then ubuntu has this nice habit of doing released at fixed schedules22:35
seb128jono, I guess that's an unity bug yes, I didn't see it before22:35
tbf_glosoli: you never get everything perfect with fixed schedules22:35
jonothanks seb12822:36
seb128jono, you might want to try your change with DBO ;-)22:36
seb128jono, yw22:36
jonoseb128, will mention it to him and ted22:36
jonoDBO, tedg ^^22:36
ubot5Ubuntu bug 943633 in unity (Ubuntu) "Erratic indicator behavior, possibly after suspend" [Undecided,New]22:36
jonoseb128, know if anyone is working to resolve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/943636 ?22:36
ubot5Ubuntu bug 943636 in unity (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcut for moving virtual desktops brings up dash and shortcuts pane" [Undecided,New]22:36
glosolitbf_: you know what's the worst thing of someone being very good programmer ? Because they always believe they can do anything, they pick too much tasks, and if schedule is fixed, hell here comes the thing which is not done properly....22:37
seb128jono, we reverted to crtl-alt-arrows for precise so I think that got lowered again22:37
jonoseb128, oh cool22:37
seb128jono, it's on Didier's priority list but less a priority since it's not conflicting with a default keybindings22:37
mhall119glosoli: that's why any large programming team has managers ;)22:37
jonoseb128, ok so default is now Ctrl-Alt-Arrow again?22:38
mhall119not that it took me more than 30 seconds to change it once I realized what happened22:38
seb128glosoli, you will be glad to learn that programmers doesn't decide alone what they will do this cycle in the unity team ;-)22:38
tbf_...considering how long it took until program management approved the last milestone as sufficiently perfect, i very much appreciate fixed schedules22:38
seb128jono, yes22:38
seb128jono, the design intend was to have both the old and new one working at the same time22:38
glosoliseb128: sure I know that, but it doesn't look that way for ubuntu having fixed schedules.22:38
seb128jono, but compiz doesn't allow that22:38
seb128jono, so they delayed to next cycle once compiz will be able to deal with it22:39
tbf_(how many bugs could we have fixed, if we wouldn't have been in finish that damn milestone panic don't touch something else micromanagement mode for ages)22:39
seb128glosoli, well it is this way22:39
glosolithis way is bad way22:39
seb128no it's not22:39
seb128glosoli, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-desktop-team.html22:40
seb128one example22:40
seb128things tend to not be overscoped22:40
seb128i.e look at the chart, desktop is on the trend line for the cycle22:40
glosoliI beeen watching ubuntu since 6.04 or somehow called and it was never finished properly after release still some minor bugs occured in gui or code22:40
jonoseb128, delayed what till next cycle? both?22:40
jonoso it sounds like for this cycle the default is Ctrl-Alt+Arrow22:40
jonowhich is awesome22:40
seb128jono, yes, compiz will need to be updated to be able to have 2 keybindings for the same actions, then we can make super-shift-arrow for the new user and keep the old working22:41
seb128but both changing compiz and doing the keybindings changes are for q22:41
mfischhooray for control alt arrow22:41
jonoseb128, cool, so I guess the bug I filed still applies then for when people do use Super-Shift-Arrow22:41
seb128jono, if you opened a bug about it dup it from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/939521 I guess22:42
tedgjono, That's not a "me thing" it's somewhere in panel-service or unity.  So Unity is the right place to file the bug.22:42
ubot5Ubuntu bug 939521 in unity (Ubuntu) "Shortcut overlay appears even if you Super + another key" [Medium,Triaged]22:42
jonothanks tedg22:46
jonoso whose list should I ensure this gets on?22:46
seb128jono, used to be njpatel's, so see with thumper I guess22:46
seb128likely DBO or gord22:46
jonothanks seb12822:46
jonothumper, ^^^^^22:47
thumperhi jono22:47
thumperjono: luckily super+ keybindings are being reverted22:47
thumperjono: at least for moving desktops22:47
jonothumper, this is a different bug22:47
jonothumper, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/94363322:48
ubot5Ubuntu bug 943633 in unity (Ubuntu) "Erratic indicator behavior, possibly after suspend" [Undecided,New]22:48
jonothumper, there is a video in there showing the bug22:49
jonounfortunately it makes the indicators unusable when it occurs22:50
thumperjono: yah, it is downloading :)22:50
jonothanks thumper!22:50
seb128jono, if you are lucky thumper has a mp4 codec to watch it ;-)22:50
jonoseb128, looks like we are going to need another Whaaaaaaaambulance :-)22:51
jonoand maybe a glass of Whine too?22:51
* thumper can't see it :-|22:51
thumpercan't tell if it is still downloading22:51
thumperor just not allowing me to see it22:51
jonothumper, wget it22:51
jonoand play it in totem22:51
thumperI am22:52
thumperalthough right now I'm chasing a regression in unity 5.622:52
jonoI will conver the vid to ogg22:52
jonoand attach to the bug22:52
thumperjono: wow, that is special :)22:53
jonothumper, ahhh you see it?22:53
jonobonkers, eh?22:53
jonoI think multi-monitor and unsuspending may be the cuase22:54
thumperI have a feeling that it is the indicators stuff itself22:54
thumperunity just passes along events22:54
thumperbut could be weirdness22:54
thumperTrevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/94363322:54
ubot5Ubuntu bug 943633 in unity "Erratic indicator behavior, possibly after suspend" [High,Triaged]22:54
thumperTrevinho: care to comment please?22:54
glosoliseb128: So you would recommend to email to that design mailing lists addresss ?23:00
glosoliseb128: Sorry for dumb question, never used mailing lists before, I will get replies in my email or I will need to read that public archive  ?23:01
seb128glosoli, https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/23:01
Trevinhothumper: I look to that23:34
Trevinhoanyway jono, thumper I noticed the same sometime on Oneiric... I was asking myself what's happening23:43
TrevinhoI'll check asap23:44
jonothanks Trevinho23:44
Trevinhojono: do you get it when removing a display as well?23:45
jonoTrevinho, I have not seen it with just my laptop23:47
jononext time it happens I will remove a display and see what happens23:47
thumperjono: you are getting this with the latest unity I take it?23:54
jonothumper, yes, I am up to date with Precise23:55
thumperno special PPAs?23:55
jonothumper, nope23:55

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