[00:12] <thumper> ah... I think didrocks made one
[00:12] <thumper> I should probably check
[00:12] <thumper> I feel like I'm under a pile here
[00:14] <bschaefer> im not sure if/when that needs to be done, I was just checking from you ping yesterday
[00:14] <bschaefer> also that is no good! Hopefully you can get some rest after this week...
[00:17] <thumper> pfft
[00:17] <thumper> we'll see
[00:17] <thumper> I'm trying to fix bugs in the release
[00:19] <bschaefer> good luck! Ill hopefully have this panel bug done soon...
[00:20] <bschaefer> also do you know where jay is?
[00:22] <thumper> no, sorry
[00:22] <thumper> may have left for the day
[00:22] <thumper> it is outside is normal hours
[00:23] <bschaefer> alright, hopefully Ill see him tomorrow
[03:35] <snadge> <3
[03:53] <mhall119> Trevinho: starting to see some keywords merge proposals coming in
[09:35] <htorque> hi all! i'd like to add a launcher item for all users and found this in checkbox-unity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/861685/ should that do what i'm looking for or is this just for the current user?
[09:47] <seb128> htorque, that's a runtime thing for the current user
[09:48] <htorque> seb128: was afraid it is, thanks.
[09:48] <seb128> htorque, the easiest is to do an override for the gsettings com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites key
[09:50] <htorque> seb128: thanks, am looking at the existing overrides now. :-)
[09:52] <seb128> htorque, well just define your custom list, I don't think you can append in an override, just copy the default one and add your item in it
[10:00] <htorque> seb128: works fine for new users or when resetting the unity configuration, but what would i do to keep users' configurations and just add the launcher?
[10:01] <htorque> maybe running a migration script (using above snippet) when users log in?
[10:02] <seb128> htorque, yes
[10:03] <pawel_st_> hi there,
[10:03] <pawel_st_> is anybody familiar with com.canonical.AppMenu.Registrat dbus interface?
[10:04] <seb128> pawel_st_, hi, you should probably just ask your question
[10:04] <seb128> pawel_st_, the people most familiar with it are u.s based and still sleeping but others might be able to reply
[10:04] <seb128> otherwise try again in a few hours
[10:05] <pawel_st_> ok; so I'm playing with it and trying to get all menus by calling GetMenus(). But I'm not getting anything - instead I see the top panel is being restarted (probably crashes)
[10:08] <pawel_st_> so question is, when I get proxy object for com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service and /com/canonical/AppMenu/Registrar, can I just call GetMenus(), or is there an extra step needed
[10:30] <smb> Hm, anybody else has this? Clicking on the launcher icon usually raises the active applications window (and optionally switches workspaces). Currently I seem to often get no workspace switch and the application window randomly moved (sometimes even between two workspaces). Not all apps but at least firefox and xchat atm...
[11:36] <didrocks> seb128: htorque: this snippet is broken in current unity
[11:36] <didrocks> seb128: htorque: upstream changed some code and regressed it (look at why it's deactivated in checkbox-unity now)
[11:40] <htorque> didrocks: thanks for the hint!
[11:40] <didrocks> yw :)
[12:18] <Lighthorse> anyone know were I can get Unity to use with Ubuntu Server 11.10 or is it already installed
[12:19] <om26er> bug 942772
[12:19] <om26er> I see that as well
[12:19] <om26er> damn i am so drunk (not exactly) please ignore me :/ I was thinking it something different
[12:22] <Lighthorse> I would like to switch to a gui instead of command line
[12:23] <Lighthorse> as I am still new to this
[12:28] <rye> Lighthorse, well, you can get the whole desktop software pack by installing ubuntu-desktop meta-package
[12:28] <Lighthorse> Cool that is what I was looking for
[12:30] <Lighthorse> OK looking for a download for it thank you
[12:35] <rye> is there a bug about hud stealing focus from applications if it is dismissed by clicking alt again?
[12:35] <rye> oh, i know, hud tag
[12:35] <rye> 934061
[12:44] <Lighthorse> rye, Thanks I did sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[12:44] <Lighthorse> Fingers crossed
[12:44] <rye> Lighthorse, you are running it locally, right? not over the network?
[12:45] <rye> I mean the Ubuntu Server installation has the monitor attached etc.
[12:45] <Lighthorse> Yes bet it looks like it is getting it from the arcive
[12:45] <Lighthorse> Yes it is a stand alone system
[12:46] <rye> ok
[12:47] <Lighthorse> I have a win server running now I want to change to Ubuntu so I am figuring this out
[12:47] <Lighthorse> but not great at command line alone
[12:48] <rye> Lighthorse, server configuration are mostly done in configuration files though since the servers don't usually run any gui. OTOH getting comfortable with gui first then starting using the terminal is a path I originally went through
[12:48] <Lighthorse> I like the unity desktop I used with Ubuntu 11.04
[12:49] <Lighthorse> I figure that also I am used to Unity so I figure I could transform from gui to cli
[12:51] <Trevinho> mhall119: cool! thanks for doing that! ;)
[13:01] <Lighthorse> WOW 650+ files , Hope I am getting the right thing
[13:03] <mhall119> Trevinho: glad to
[13:04] <mhall119> Nekhelesh has been doing a lot of work lately, with Quicklists and now Keywords
[13:08] <mhall119> didrocks: thanks for taking on the keywords MPs
[13:09] <didrocks> mhall119: no worry, but we really need to discuss processes and how to announce it :)
[13:09] <didrocks> took me 4 hours for something which takes less time doing it ourselves, so let's plan that together for next call!
[13:09] <didrocks> nevertheless, I love it, I hope we will have good translations as well
[13:09] <didrocks> so that we start having good search results!
[13:10] <mhall119> didrocks: agreed, in particular I'd like to figure out how to properly make these package patches in a way I can walk a non-developer through
[13:10] <didrocks> mhall119: yeah, quite some work involved here :)
[13:10] <mhall119> and 100% agree on needing a tool that'll get the correct branch every time
[13:12] <mhall119> didrocks: I'll try the edit-patch process again for the geany keywords
[13:12] <mhall119> I'll ping you if I get stuck
[13:12] <didrocks> mhall119: do not hesitate! :)
[13:14] <Saviq> didrocks, mhall119 is it possible that we'd have the search in both translated and original strings?
[13:15] <didrocks> Saviq: what do you mean?
[13:15] <didrocks> ah you want to search in both
[13:15] <Saviq> yes
[13:15] <Saviq> due to the fact that not 100% apps are translated, not 100% keywords would be translated
[13:15] <didrocks> hum, that's more a question for kamstrup, mhr3 and design
[13:15] <seb128> design said no previous cycle
[13:15] <Saviq> true
[13:15] <seb128> it's confusing for most users because it matches stuff you have no clue about
[13:16] <seb128> especially for people who don't know english
[13:16] <Saviq> seb128, I can agree with that, but then we need to have higher reqs for translations
[13:16] <seb128> ?
[13:16] <Saviq> now I end up with a mx
[13:16] <Saviq> mix
[13:16] <seb128> we have the highest request for translations
[13:17] <seb128> hum, mix of what?
[13:17] <Saviq> of Polish (in my case) and English strings in .desktop files
[13:17] <Saviq> and now it's even more apparent with the hud
[13:17] <seb128> example? where in the ui?
[13:17] <Saviq> where the sound indicator name, for example, isn't translated
[13:18] <seb128> that has nothing to do with search
[13:18] <seb128> it's just your locale translations not being complete
[13:18] <Saviq> seb128, well, it has to do with feeding the search
[13:18] <Saviq> seb128, yes, but expecting that I often try both
[13:18] <seb128> well, the search just finds what is in menus
[13:18] <Saviq> if I fail in PL, I try in EN
[13:18] <Saviq> and then sometimes I try in EN to begin with
[13:19] <seb128> well, that will be autofixed when the polish translation team complete their translations
[13:19] <Saviq> and fail, even though I know it should be there
[13:19] <Saviq> true
[13:19] <seb128> you can't display nothing
[13:19] <Saviq> but will we ever reach 100% for everything? doubt it
[13:19] <seb128> we fallback to display english if not translated
[13:19] <Saviq> yes that's great
[13:19] <seb128> what else would you suggest? blank text instead?
[13:19] <Saviq> no, I'd suggest searching in both translated and original strings
[13:20] <seb128> that's confusing over what you describe and it would "punish" stable users where things are translated
[13:20] <Saviq> punish how?
[13:20] <seb128> what you suggest optimize for a broken case
[13:20]  * mhr3 agrees with seb128
[13:20] <seb128> but confusing them, polish users probably want polish results to be listed, not random match to happen because what that typed happens to be an english word
[13:21] <seb128> but->by
[13:21] <seb128> they might not even know the english word and why what they typed matched that word that has nothing to do with their input
[13:22] <Saviq> I do tend to agree that'd be the ideal case, but that's assuming we'll be 100% translated, and we won't
[13:22] <Saviq> I do get your argument, though and will now hide in a corner somewhere ;)
[13:22] <seb128> Saviq, we have over 90% translations in like over 25 locales
[13:22] <Saviq> that's not 100%, and what's the scope btw?
[13:23] <seb128> like all the important strings are 100% translated in a load of locales
[13:23] <Saviq> all apps in universe? multiverse?
[13:23] <seb128> Saviq, the CD, that includes the whole desktop indicators, unity ui, applications
[13:23] <seb128> Saviq, well, why would be undermine the experience on the default install and most used applications just because stuff in the universe are less good?
[13:24] <seb128> we optimize for the best experience, we don't level to the worst of what we ship
[13:24] <Saviq> I probably simply wouldn't consider that undermining
[13:24] <Saviq> but yeah, compromise
[13:24] <Saviq> maybe I am setting too low a target
[13:24] <seb128> well, it means on a 100% official translated polish preinstalled images you would get those weird matching that don't make any sense to polish users
[13:25] <seb128> so it sort of undermine our default experience
[13:25] <seb128> Saviq, I can see what you say but that's the position which has been taken
[13:25] <seb128> I think it's a reasonable one
[13:25] <Saviq> yes I understand
[13:25] <Saviq> I agree
[13:26] <seb128> good ;-)
[13:26] <seb128> let's move on
[13:26] <Saviq> lets :)
[13:26] <seb128> Saviq, you can always use an english locale if you prefer a consistant experience and are fine with english ;-)
[13:27] <Saviq> seb128, of course
[13:52] <nava> Saviq a good idea for unity http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29302/
[13:53] <Saviq> nava, sure, sounds good to me, not that trivial, though, but pick it up with design at #ubuntu-design
[13:54] <Saviq> as mentioned in the response
[13:55] <nava> Saviq thanks,but i think if you discussed it will be better than me ;)
[13:55] <Saviq> nava, not really
[13:56] <nava> ok what should i do ? im on design channel
[13:56] <Saviq> nava, best read http://design.canonical.com/2012/02/the-unity-design-process-and-how-you-can-play-a-part-in-it/
[13:56] <Saviq> it's from our lead designer for the shell
[13:57] <mhall119> gord: do you know if there's any more recent documentation on global menu stuff than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationMenu ?
[13:58] <nava> Saviq I read it, but it tell post on brainstorm in part 1
[14:02] <mhall119> mhr3: ping
[14:04] <mhr3> mhall119, pong
[14:07] <gord> mhr3, not that i'm aware of
[14:07] <gord> mhall119, ^^
[14:08] <mhall119> mhr3: are you still waiting on something before moving https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mhr3/Lenses back to the main page for it?
[14:08] <mhr3> mhall119, well, 12.04 still isn't released
[14:09] <mhr3> so the 11.10 version is still the most revelant
[14:09] <mhall119> ah, ok
[14:09] <mhall119> mhr3: is what's currently on /Unity/Lenses accurate as of 11.10?
[14:09] <mhr3> yep
[14:09] <mhall119> cool, thanks
[14:10] <pawel_st_> Is anyone familiar with com.canonical.AppMenu.Registrat dbus interface? I'm playing with it and trying to get all menus by calling GetMenus(). But I'm not getting anything - instead I see the top panel is being restarted (probably crashes)
[14:10] <pawel_st_> so the question is, when I get proxy object for com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service and /com/canonical/AppMenu/Registrar, can I just call GetMenus(), or is there an extra step needed.
[14:11] <mhall119> gord: do you know if there's any documentation yet on how to pre-seed the HUD with clues about what menu items a user might be interested in?
[14:12] <gord> tedg, ^ ;)
[14:12] <mhall119> oh, tedg is here, even better
[14:12] <tedg> mhall119, I think the only docs are really my blog post.
[14:13] <mhall119> tedg: link?
[14:13] <tedg> mhall119, You don't have all the content of my blog memorized?  :-)
[14:13] <tedg> mhall119, http://gould.cx/ted/blog/Searching_menus
[14:14] <mhall119> I do, I was just checking to see if you did ;)
[14:25] <mhall119> ok, who are the indicator folks?
[14:26] <mhall119> I need updates on the status of documentation for the message and sound indicators
[14:58] <davidcalle> loremattei, Launchpad is building Flickr. I'll look tomorrow into the on_search_changed bug. Good job!
[15:30] <loremattei> davidcalle, fine! I'll follow the on_search_changed bug. Thank you!
[15:44] <mhall119> davidcalle: ping
[15:44] <davidcalle> mhall119, pong
[15:44] <mhall119> davidcalle: hi, did you submit your graphic design lens to the ARB?
[15:44] <davidcalle> mhall119, yes, it's done.
[15:45] <mhall119> awesome, thanks, let me know how that goes
[15:45] <davidcalle> mhall119, I will, Allison Randall is reviewing it.
[15:45] <davmor2> hey guys are the notifications meant to be BLUE if so my god why?
[15:46] <davidcalle> davmor2, it's a bug. What's the colour of your wallpaper?
[15:46] <davmor2> davidcalle: it's the default this is on a fresh install the notification was for you have wifi
[15:46] <mhall119> seb128: ping
[15:47] <davidcalle> davmor2, and all notifications are blue?
[15:48] <davmor2> davidcalle: I've only had the 2, there are networks available and you are connected,  I am about to start the fresh install but both have been BLUE
[15:49] <davidcalle> davmor2, you can display one with notify-send  (notify-send "some text")
[15:51] <davidcalle> davmor2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/notify-osd/+bug/929425
[15:52] <davmor2> davidcalle: this isn't the full desktop yet on the install pages once it is installed properly I'll have a proper play
[15:52] <davidcalle> davmor2, ok
[16:46] <mhall119> does anybody know if there's been discussion about providing generic "Messages" and "Websites" lenses for Unity?
[16:47] <mhall119> mhr3: ^^ ?
[16:47] <mhall119> Messages for searching email, chat logs, gwibber messages, etc
[16:47] <mhall119> Website for searching browser bookmarks and history
[16:47] <Daekdroom> That one would overlap with the gwibber lenses.
[16:48] <mhall119> Gwibber shouldn't have it's own lens, according to our guidelines
[16:48] <Daekdroom> What are the guidelines?
[16:48] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses/Guidelines
[16:49] <mhall119> I can see the Gwibber lens being a "Microblog" Lens, but I think it would be better to have a broader "Messages" lens
[16:49] <mhr3> mhall119, dont know about such discussion
[16:49] <mhall119> mhr3: what are your thoughts on it?
[16:50] <mhr3> web does make sense
[16:50] <mhr3> gwibber is multisource itself, so not sure there
[16:50] <mhall119> right, which is why I can see it being specific to Microblogging
[16:50] <mhall119> that way you can have Polly, etc, feed it
[16:50] <mhr3> but it'd be pretty cool if a lens searched my xchat logs
[16:52] <Daekdroom> Btw, is the music lens going to work with Rhythmbox?
[16:53] <mhr3> davidcalle will be able to answer that :)
[16:54] <mhall119> Daekdroom: Mark Tully has a scope for Rhythmbox: lp:~markjtully/+junk/rhythmbox-scope
[16:55] <davidcalle> mhr3, I still need your help on this. Or Python.
[16:55] <mhall119> oh nice, it also looks like he has a web history lens
[16:58] <davidcalle> mhall119, he is Teester on irc. He has scopes for every big music player.
[17:00] <mhr3> davidcalle, so how far did you get with it?
[17:00] <mhr3> last time we were chatting there were quite a few roadblocks
[17:00] <mhr3> did you get past those?
[17:02] <davidcalle> mhr3, db parsing with extraction of title, genre, artist, album, track number, uri. The scope being currently wired to a lot of banshee db related stuff, I'm having a hard time figurint out how to wire these results to it.
[17:03] <davidcalle> mhr3, an external scope would be much nicer, as it wouldn't need extra work to rebuild an external (and needed) banshee scope.
[17:09] <davidcalle> mhr3, what do you think?
[17:11] <mhr3> i dont like the idea that we'd be shipping a lens that just sits there and requires a remote scope to work by default
[17:11] <davidcalle> mhr3, it will work for upgraders.
[17:11] <mhr3> davidcalle, i'm also not sure what you mean with the second point, can you elaborate?
[17:12] <mhr3> extra work to rebuild banshee scope??
[17:12] <mhall119> mhr3: you can make the lens package Recommends the scope for the default music player
[17:12] <davidcalle> mhr3, the music lens needs to keep banshee compatibility. So, I guess it means an external banshee scope, if the internal one is rbox.
[17:13] <mhall119> they should both be external, IMO, so you can uninstall the scope for the default music player if you uninstall the default music player
[17:13] <Daekdroom> Specially if the scope package depends on the player.
[17:14] <mhr3> while having scopes is awesome, it comes at a cost of resources, i think the default ones need to be careful about those
[17:15] <mhr3> davidcalle, and you dont need to do anything about the banshee scope, it should stay the way it is
[17:16] <mhr3> it was default 11.10 and i hope it handles banshee not being there well enough
[17:18] <mhr3> lamalex, ^^ it does right?
[17:18] <lamalex> mhr3, believe so
[17:24] <mhall119> I need a little help, does anyone have 5 minutes to explain to me how Unity selects icons for the launcher and alt-tab switcher?
[17:26] <elopio> Hi unity team.
[17:26] <elopio> what tool are you using for GUI tests on Unity 3D?
[17:27] <elopio> are you using something like Qt testability driver?
[17:27] <mhall119> didrocks: ^^ can you answer?
[17:28] <lamalex> elopio, we have a tool called autopilot that was written in house
[17:28] <lamalex> it's still under quite active development, and its similar to testability
[17:28] <lamalex> the code is in the unity tree
[17:28] <lamalex> under tests/autopilot
[17:29] <elopio> lamalex: cool. I'll look at it.
[17:29] <elopio> lamalex: any reasons not to use mago?
[17:30] <lamalex> yup, if you have questions/comments whatever feel free to ping me
[17:30] <lamalex> elopio, yah- lots
[17:30] <lamalex> so many
[17:30] <elopio> :)
[17:30] <davidcalle> mhr3, how would you prefer the search to be done on the db? Everything extracted to be stored then search or matching while parsing?
[17:31] <elopio> that's reasuring. I'll see if we can hook into autopilot too.
[17:31] <elopio> lamalex: thanks.
[17:31] <lamalex> elopio, it's mine so feel free to ask any questions
[17:31] <lamalex> elopio, what are you working on?
[17:31] <lamalex> (i might be able to tell you if AP will fit or not)
[17:31] <elopio> lamalex: I will for sure. I work with Ubuntu One.
[17:32] <lamalex> if you're doing web stuff I would use selenium
[17:32] <elopio> lamalex: for the website we have the selenium + SST tests working.
[17:33] <elopio> for the control panel, that's Qt for windows and ubuntu we are thinking of testability.
[17:33] <lamalex> i would use testability if you're doing Qt
[17:33] <lamalex> testability offers so much for Qt applications
[17:33] <elopio> for the integration with Ubuntu, we could use xpresser, mago or this autopilot.
[17:33] <lamalex> Autopilot is really specific to unity
[17:34] <lamalex> if you need to click on unity bits in automated ways AP is excellent
[17:34] <lamalex> but that's really all it's good for right now
[17:34] <elopio> lamalex: we need to test the lenses
[17:34] <elopio> the indicator
[17:34] <elopio> lots of stuff.
[17:34] <lamalex> cool
[17:34] <lamalex> yah, AP is probably what you want
[17:34] <elopio> bug we also need to test rhythmbox and nautilus
[17:35] <elopio> then this is going to be a not-so-nice mix of tools, probably.
[17:35] <lamalex> I've been wanting to try and do a gtk backend thing for autopilot
[17:36] <lamalex> to make autopilot also useful for testing gtk apps, but i haven't had time. i think a lot of the code is already written in the gtkparasite module but like i said- purely speculation
[17:36] <elopio> lamalex: that sounds really nice. What about for the next week ;)
[17:36] <elopio> lamalex: I'll look into the code.
[17:36] <lamalex> go for it!
[17:36] <elopio> I'm not the best programmer, and I don't have much time, but I could give you a hand.
[17:37] <mhr3> davidcalle, the latter would make the searches take longer than they need to
[17:37] <elopio> if we decide that this is the tool for us, it would be easier for me to spend some hours on this. I'll keep bothering you in the near future, for sure :D
[18:37] <mhall119> mhr3: who can I talk to about making sure Unity is using the best possible icons for apps (in the launcher and alt-tab switcher)?
[19:16] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[19:53] <thumper> morning
[19:54] <PaoloRotolo> thumper, hi
[19:54] <thumper> hi PaoloRotolo
[19:57] <bschaefer> morning thumper
[19:59] <thumper> hi bschaefer
[21:24] <balloons> afternoon everyone.. did https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz-core/+bug/940139 make it into the unity team ppa yet?
[21:33] <mhall119> balloons: looks like it
[21:33] <mhall119> I did a dist-upgrade this morning
[21:33] <mhall119> haven't restarted yet, but the compiz-core changelog in /usr/share/doc/ has it listed
[21:34] <mhall119> version 1:0.9.7.0~bzr3025-0ubuntu1~ppa1
[21:34] <balloons> kk.. good. I said it was
[21:34] <balloons> hehehehe
[21:34] <mhall119> declare first, ask later?  I like how you roll mister
[21:35] <balloons> it was "supposed" to be in there
[21:35] <balloons> therefore.. it is in there
[21:35] <thumper> I think it is...
[21:42] <mhall119> thumper: have you looked at the unity MP graphs lately?
[21:43] <thumper> no
[21:43] <thumper> what graphs
[21:43] <thumper> ?
[21:43] <thumper> sorry
[21:43] <thumper> I have vague recollections
[21:43] <thumper> but I'm fighting a blocking 5.6 bug right now
[21:43] <mhall119> average wait time to the first response on an MP has been cut by nearly 2/3!
[21:43] <mhall119> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/unity-stats/#unity_wait
[21:44] <thumper> oh that's good
[21:44] <mhall119> it's very good
[21:44] <mhall119> the whole team is doing wonderfully on that
[21:45] <mhall119> just wanted to make sure you knew :)
[21:56] <seb128> mhall119, hey
[21:57] <seb128> mhall119, sorry I was out when you pinged earlier and forgot to pong after dealing with backlog
[21:57] <seb128> mhall119, small not about your unity list instructions, the OnlyShowIn=Unity needs a trailling ";"
[21:57] <seb128> i.e "OnlyShowIn=Unity;"
[21:58] <seb128> mhall119, it will work without it but it might trigger parser warnings
[21:59] <mhall119> seb128: ok
[21:59] <mhall119> seb128: My next target is getting better icons for some apps that are still using low-res raster images
[22:00] <seb128> mhall119, good luck
[22:00] <mhall119> but I wanted to make sure I had a good understanding of where Unity got them for the Launcher and alt-tab switcher
[22:00] <seb128> mhall119, I think icon designers are hard to find ;-)
[22:00] <seb128> icons are not easy to draw
[22:00] <mhall119> hopefully most upstreams already have hi-res or svg source images for their raster icons
[22:01] <mhall119> and it'll just be a matter of asking for them
[22:01] <seb128> mhall119, if they do we usually ship those
[22:01] <seb128> or they ship svg for those
[22:01] <seb128> well at least GNOME do
[22:01] <mhall119> some, like libreoffice, seems to have svgs in their packages, but possible aren't using them
[22:17] <seb128> mhall119, btw can you fix the wiki as well for the trailing ";"?
[22:17] <mhall119> seb128: sure
[22:17] <seb128> mhall119, icon, usually unity,GNOME,etc loads whatever is in the theme
[22:18] <seb128> mhall119, look at the icon name in the .desktop and find /usr/share/icons -name <iconname>
[22:18] <glosoli> Anyone here would like me to explain ?  Mark ditched Unity Dash icon from Unity Indicator Top Left of the screen to Unity Panel. Well it was some kind of ruining look of the system. But then he came with even greater idea...Removed Dodge Window, so now when you maximize window these little MAX MIN CLOSE buttons are just not in the right plays, because if Unity Panel is always shown, you see them in the very top left of the screen, far away from app
[22:18] <seb128> or <iconname>*
[22:18] <glosoli> window.
[22:19] <seb128> glosoli, ?
[22:19] <seb128> glosoli, the control didn't change much place
[22:19] <seb128> there are shifted from the old ubuntu logo width, which is a few pixels
[22:19] <mhall119> seb128: right, for libreoffice it appears that libreoffice-writer (specified in the .desktop) is a png, but there is an svg in the same place called libreoffice-oasis-text.svg
[22:19] <mhall119> so that would explain it, I suppose
[22:20] <seb128> mhall119, try dropping the .png from the .desktop and see if that fixes it
[22:20] <seb128> (you might need to restart your session, dunno if bamf reload on .desktop changes)
[22:20] <glosoli> seb128: Sure it did. Max Min Buttons now seem not in the right place, and drives me nuts. It looks like a job of somekind of person who learn design things in a day now.
[22:20] <tbf_> glosoli: nah... i would not talk that radical
[22:21] <tbf_> glosoli: ui design is hard
[22:21] <seb128> glosoli, they seem to be in the right place to me
[22:21] <mhall119> seb128: the .desktop specified 'libreoffice-writer', which will match the .png, but not the .svg, which is actually named 'libreoffice-oasis-text'
[22:21] <seb128> glosoli, it's easier to aim the corner than 30 pixels from the corner
[22:21] <jono> anyone else seeing this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/943633
[22:21] <glosoli> seb128: you have autohide maybe ?
[22:21] <seb128> glosoli, no, I've always on
[22:21] <jono> there is a video on that bug demonsrating the problem
[22:22] <seb128> mhall119, that seems a libreoffice bug indeed
[22:22] <glosoli> seb128: It just looks nuts, it's the same as having close max min, more left than the whole windows when windows is not maximized.
[22:22] <tbf_> glosoli: no idea how big canonical's efforts are, but I've been in projects, where the ui and layout specs had seen almost 100 iterations at the end of the project
[22:22] <seb128> mhall119, try editing the .desktop and use 'libreoffice-oasis-text'
[22:22] <glosoli> tbf_: I have no feelings at judging, so don't new users who would like to try os
[22:23] <glosoli> tbf_: everything should look perfect.
[22:23] <tbf_> seb128: i think although glosoli is using a bit strong words here, he has a point
[22:23] <glosoli> tbf_: If a student like me realizes it looks bad and drives nuts, how can it attract movies editors when lightworks will be released and etc ?
[22:23] <tbf_> seb128: with static launcher dock it indeed looks strange that the window control buttons are shown above the launcher icons instead of the window
[22:23] <seb128> tbf_, glosoli: well having them out of the launcher space would mean having to move the menus when the control move there
[22:24] <seb128> which would mean the menus wouldn't be at the same place on max or small windows
[22:24] <seb128> which is another issue
[22:24] <glosoli> seb128: they can be in the same place as window. why not ? why not leaving global menu always shown, and title with button in the window ?
[22:24] <tbf_> seb128: when the dash button still was in the indicator panel, things looked are reasonable.
[22:24] <tbf_> seb128: yup, hard to get all details right
[22:24] <tbf_> seb128: but maybe something to bring to the ui designer's attention
[22:24] <seb128> glosoli, because it would mean having to shift the menus location when the button get embedded on the panel
[22:25] <seb128> which is not perfect either
[22:25] <tbf_> seb128: this kind of guys usually find excellent solutions much faster than us stupid programmers
[22:25] <seb128> right
[22:25] <glosoli> seb128: It is not perfect always seeing global menu instead of wasted whitespace for nothing ??
[22:25] <seb128> do you lack horizontal whitespace on your panel?
[22:25] <seb128> what resolution do you use?
[22:25] <glosoli> may I show you a screenshoot how it will ook perfect ?
[22:26] <tbf_> glosoli: maybe you can file a nicely and positively worded bug report in launchpad...
[22:26] <glosoli> tbf_: I will tomorrow because it will be so much writing to do to convince people. :)
[22:26] <seb128> glosoli, I understand what you describe, I just say it has other usability issues
[22:26] <tbf_> glosoli: ...and once we've got an url, seb128 just forwards that link to his ui design guys?
[22:26] <seb128> they read bugs
[22:26] <seb128> they don't need me to ping them
[22:26] <seb128> just make it affect ayatana-design
[22:26] <tbf_> even the better
[22:27] <seb128> or better email the design list
[22:27] <glosoli> http://goo.gl/c29Z9
[22:27] <seb128> it's a better place to have a discussion, too many bugs, they don't read them daily
[22:27] <glosoli> check that link ?
[22:27] <tbf_> glosoli: just make sure to keep calm when writing things down
[22:27] <seb128> you have a better chance of a discussion on the list
[22:27] <glosoli> doesn't it look proper this way ?
[22:27] <seb128> no it doesn't
[22:28] <glosoli> tbf_: I am calm most of the times, but  these little things.. they drive me nuts :D
[22:28] <tbf_> glosoli: you definitely have a point, and explained calmly it definitely will influence the design guys
[22:28] <seb128> but what tbf_ says
[22:28] <tbf_> glosoli: of course nobody can guarantee that you convince them in first go
[22:28] <seb128> I doubt they will buy the "menus should always be on screen"
[22:28] <tbf_> glosoli: but friendly, nice language is the key.
[22:28] <seb128> they try to deprecate menus, those are past century ui bits
[22:28] <seb128> i.e read mark's blog post on the hud
[22:28] <glosoli> Tryed Hud
[22:28] <glosoli> it's for power users
[22:29] <glosoli> I like it, new users won't
[22:29] <seb128> you get no menus on an ipad and users don't hate it
[22:29] <tbf_> glosoli: hud rather seems like an experiment or a voice-control enabler
[22:29] <seb128> same on an android device
[22:29] <glosoli> Even hotkey for HUD is picked bad
[22:29] <glosoli> hotkey for a lot of plugins is picked bad
[22:29] <tbf_> but in the end menubars always were a hack for people incapable of doing proper ui design, that guides users
[22:30] <glosoli> tbf_: menu bar always shown was in mac os x for what 10 years or more ? Don't know how long, but noone ever cryed for it, because it fullfilled whitespace instead of leaving empty whitespace :)
[22:31] <tbf_> glosoli: still makes sense to not show the menubar if you don't interact with it
[22:31] <tbf_> glosoli: text glpyhs are very complex, noisy beats
[22:31] <seb128> jono, you freedom hater
[22:31] <tbf_> glosoli: very much appreciate not seeing them all the time
[22:31] <tbf_> (the menubar glyphs)
[22:31] <jono> seb128, freedom sucks
[22:32] <seb128> jono, I'm pondering installing a mp4 codec to watch your video or not ;-)
[22:32] <glosoli> tbf_: Well yes, I don't need them too, tryed LIM, it does the same bad thing as global menu...
[22:32] <tbf_> glosoli: that smart hiding of the menubar was one of the things initially buying me into unity
[22:32] <jono> seb128, would you like someone to call you a Whaaaaaambulance?
[22:32] <seb128> jono, gtk-recordmydesktop does ogg by default, it doesn't suck ;-)
[22:32] <jono> :-)
[22:32] <jono> seb128, I did record it, but no software can trim out that corner of my desktop
[22:32] <jono> so I used Windows
[22:33] <glosoli> tbf_: it was fine, but when they ditched Dodge Window it made to occur so many GUI cheapeness
[22:33] <jono> so in essence...Free Software sucked for this :-)
[22:33] <seb128> jono, gtk-recordmydesktop should work just fine
[22:33] <seb128> weird
[22:33] <tbf_> i remember having used a linux screen recorder that permits choosing the screen region
[22:33] <seb128> jono, is your issue the white rectangle showing sometimes?
[22:33] <jono> seb128, oh, damn
[22:33] <tbf_> it could have been something with a stupid name like gtk-recordmydesktop
[22:33] <seb128> tbf_, gtk-recordmydesktop does it ;-)
[22:33] <jono> I could have selected the region
[22:34] <jono> seb128, ok...you get one free kick in the balls
[22:34] <seb128> lol
[22:34] <jono> choose wisely, left or right
[22:34] <jono> :-)
[22:34] <seb128> jono, luckily I'm out of kick range since you live in the u.s ;-)
[22:34] <jono> seb128, so I filed that against unity, wasnt sure which other package to file it again
[22:34] <jono> st
[22:34] <jono> seb128, haha
[22:34] <glosoli> tbf_:  You understand that thing, that being programmer/design and doing hard job, it cares for you, but it doesn't for user. All they care is that things works as they should and looks nice.  They wouldn't buy a thing just coz you said it was hard to do or had a lot of interrations while picking a gui mockup
[22:34] <seb128> jono, so, is your issue the white rectangle stuff?
[22:35] <jono> seb128, the issue is that when I click on an indicator and move the mouse a pixel it loads up the other indicators
[22:35] <jono> seb128, look at where my mouse moves and which indicators load
[22:35] <jono> the video shows it pretty well
[22:35] <seb128> oh, right
[22:35] <seb128> "fun"
[22:35] <tbf_> glosoli, sure. but then ubuntu has this nice habit of doing released at fixed schedules
[22:35] <seb128> jono, I guess that's an unity bug yes, I didn't see it before
[22:35] <tbf_> glosoli: you never get everything perfect with fixed schedules
[22:36] <jono> thanks seb128
[22:36] <seb128> jono, you might want to try your change with DBO ;-)
[22:36] <seb128> jono, yw
[22:36] <jono> seb128, will mention it to him and ted
[22:36] <seb128> change->change
[22:36] <jono> DBO, tedg ^^
[22:36] <seb128> chance
[22:36] <seb128> damn
[22:36] <jono> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/943633
[22:36] <jono> seb128, know if anyone is working to resolve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/943636 ?
[22:37] <glosoli> tbf_: you know what's the worst thing of someone being very good programmer ? Because they always believe they can do anything, they pick too much tasks, and if schedule is fixed, hell here comes the thing which is not done properly....
[22:37] <seb128> jono, we reverted to crtl-alt-arrows for precise so I think that got lowered again
[22:37] <jono> seb128, oh cool
[22:37] <seb128> jono, it's on Didier's priority list but less a priority since it's not conflicting with a default keybindings
[22:37] <mhall119> glosoli: that's why any large programming team has managers ;)
[22:38] <jono> seb128, ok so default is now Ctrl-Alt-Arrow again?
[22:38] <mhall119> \o/
[22:38] <mhall119> not that it took me more than 30 seconds to change it once I realized what happened
[22:38] <seb128> glosoli, you will be glad to learn that programmers doesn't decide alone what they will do this cycle in the unity team ;-)
[22:38] <tbf_> ...considering how long it took until program management approved the last milestone as sufficiently perfect, i very much appreciate fixed schedules
[22:38] <seb128> jono, yes
[22:38] <seb128> jono, the design intend was to have both the old and new one working at the same time
[22:38] <glosoli> seb128: sure I know that, but it doesn't look that way for ubuntu having fixed schedules.
[22:38] <seb128> jono, but compiz doesn't allow that
[22:39] <seb128> jono, so they delayed to next cycle once compiz will be able to deal with it
[22:39] <tbf_> (how many bugs could we have fixed, if we wouldn't have been in finish that damn milestone panic don't touch something else micromanagement mode for ages)
[22:39] <seb128> glosoli, well it is this way
[22:39] <glosoli> this way is bad way
[22:39] <seb128> no it's not
[22:40] <seb128> glosoli, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-desktop-team.html
[22:40] <seb128> one example
[22:40] <seb128> things tend to not be overscoped
[22:40] <seb128> i
[22:40] <seb128> i.e look at the chart, desktop is on the trend line for the cycle
[22:40] <glosoli> I beeen watching ubuntu since 6.04 or somehow called and it was never finished properly after release still some minor bugs occured in gui or code
[22:40] <jono> seb128, delayed what till next cycle? both?
[22:40] <jono> so it sounds like for this cycle the default is Ctrl-Alt+Arrow
[22:40] <jono> which is awesome
[22:41] <seb128> jono, yes, compiz will need to be updated to be able to have 2 keybindings for the same actions, then we can make super-shift-arrow for the new user and keep the old working
[22:41] <seb128> but both changing compiz and doing the keybindings changes are for q
[22:41] <mfisch> hooray for control alt arrow
[22:41] <jono> seb128, cool, so I guess the bug I filed still applies then for when people do use Super-Shift-Arrow
[22:41] <seb128> yes
[22:42] <jono> thanks
[22:42] <seb128> jono, if you opened a bug about it dup it from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/939521 I guess
[22:42] <tedg> jono, That's not a "me thing" it's somewhere in panel-service or unity.  So Unity is the right place to file the bug.
[22:46] <jono> thanks tedg
[22:46] <jono> so whose list should I ensure this gets on?
[22:46] <seb128> jono, used to be njpatel's, so see with thumper I guess
[22:46] <seb128> likely DBO or gord
[22:46] <jono> thanks seb128
[22:47] <jono> thumper, ^^^^^
[22:47] <jono> :-)
[22:47] <thumper> hi jono
[22:47] <thumper> jono: luckily super+ keybindings are being reverted
[22:47] <thumper> jono: at least for moving desktops
[22:47] <jono> thumper, this is a different bug
[22:48] <jono> thumper, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/943633
[22:48] <thumper> oh
[22:49] <jono> thumper, there is a video in there showing the bug
[22:50] <jono> unfortunately it makes the indicators unusable when it occurs
[22:50] <thumper> jono: yah, it is downloading :)
[22:50] <jono> thanks thumper!
[22:50] <seb128> jono, if you are lucky thumper has a mp4 codec to watch it ;-)
[22:51] <jono> seb128, looks like we are going to need another Whaaaaaaaambulance :-)
[22:51] <seb128> lol
[22:51] <jono> and maybe a glass of Whine too?
[22:51] <jono> :-)
[22:51]  * thumper can't see it :-|
[22:51] <jono> dammit
[22:51] <thumper> can't tell if it is still downloading
[22:51] <seb128> lol
[22:51] <thumper> or just not allowing me to see it
[22:51] <jono> thumper, wget it
[22:51] <jono> and play it in totem
[22:52] <thumper> I am
[22:52] <thumper> although right now I'm chasing a regression in unity 5.6
[22:52] <jono> I will conver the vid to ogg
[22:52] <jono> and attach to the bug
[22:53] <thumper> jono: wow, that is special :)
[22:53] <jono> thumper, ahhh you see it?
[22:53] <thumper> yeah
[22:53] <jono> bonkers, eh?
[22:54] <thumper> yeah
[22:54] <jono> I think multi-monitor and unsuspending may be the cuase
[22:54] <jono> cause
[22:54] <thumper> I have a feeling that it is the indicators stuff itself
[22:54] <thumper> unity just passes along events
[22:54] <thumper> but could be weirdness
[22:54] <thumper> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/943633
[22:54] <thumper> Trevinho: care to comment please?
[23:00] <glosoli> seb128: So you would recommend to email to that design mailing lists addresss ?
[23:00] <seb128> yes
[23:01] <glosoli> seb128: Sorry for dumb question, never used mailing lists before, I will get replies in my email or I will need to read that public archive  ?
[23:01] <seb128> glosoli, https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/
[23:34] <Trevinho> thumper: I look to that
[23:43] <Trevinho> anyway jono, thumper I noticed the same sometime on Oneiric... I was asking myself what's happening
[23:44] <Trevinho> I'll check asap
[23:44] <jono> thanks Trevinho
[23:45] <Trevinho> jono: do you get it when removing a display as well?
[23:47] <jono> Trevinho, I have not seen it with just my laptop
[23:47] <jono> next time it happens I will remove a display and see what happens
[23:54] <thumper> jono: you are getting this with the latest unity I take it?
[23:55] <jono> thumper, yes, I am up to date with Precise
[23:55] <thumper> ok
[23:55] <thumper> no special PPAs?
[23:55] <jono> thumper, nope
[23:55] <thumper> kk