snap-lHappy leap day11:46
snap-lor for those of you who don't observe leap day: Happy Feb 28+111:46
rick_h_heh, one more day to the birthday month!11:49
* rick_h_ gets all excited for mobile dev in a browser !!!!!13:15
brousch"What makes Gaia extra interesting is that it is all developed in HTML5, CSS and JavaScript, and you can debug and view the code directly on the device or in a web browser!"13:17
brouschThat is awesome13:18
snap-l"Also, you can have a XSS at the OS level"13:18
brouschOne of my biggest gripe with mobile is that you can't develop an app for your android/iphone on the device itself13:18
brouschi theoretically have a quad core tablet with 1GB of ram and i can't develop an android app on it. that thing is more powerful than my laptop13:19
brouschwell, less ram, but you get my drift13:19
snap-lscrew this mobile dev. If you want to make a phone call, you should be plugged into the wall the way God intended.13:19
brouschyou give kids an ipad and all they can do is use it, they can't create for it without another computer13:20
rick_h_bah, I need one more SA answer or something. Can't stand being at 1998 points13:22
snap-lThat's an order of magnatude more than what I have on SO13:23
rick_h_snap-l: so my vim color thing is strange. If I page around a file, it clears up13:27
rick_h_but the section that is bad, will still be bad when I page back up to it13:27
snap-lYeah,it's the re-draw13:28
snap-lI think tmux isn't interpreting a background draw command13:29
rick_h_not sure, it might be urxvt issues tbh13:29
snap-llikely a combo13:29
rick_h_the levels are deep with the urxvt -> tmux -> vim -> color scheme13:30
snap-lHave you tried different colorschemes?13:30
rick_h_yea, they all have various degrees of better/worse13:30
rick_h_it really depends on how close the bg color of the scheme is to the native terminal bgcolor theme13:30
snap-lShow on your mobile phone for a discount.13:52
rick_h_downloaded to my dropbox folder :)13:53
brouschvimmers https://market.android.com/details?id=net.momodalo.app.vimtouch14:12
rick_h_OMG /me rushes to install14:13
snap-lMake sure to clean up afterward14:13
rick_h_I installed the hacker keyboard just for this day14:14
brouschrick_h_: don't burst a vessel14:22
rick_h_hmm, I can't get it to work with a crap15:07
jrwrensnap-l: raspberrypi is the perfect sqeeze node!15:09
brouschso it is vim!15:09
rick_h_ok, somewhat got it working, ugh on the fact that you can't change keyboards from within the app15:17
rick_h_and it not supporting G sucks15:18
rick_h_but did get it to kind of work I guess15:18
snap-ljrwren: Yeah, it does look pretty spiffy.15:22
rick_h_brousch: end of document15:24
brouschoh, that is weird15:26
rick_h_krondor: 7pm CHC fyi15:31
krondorrick_h_:  thanks for the reminder, just sent the approval request15:38
rick_h_krondor: :)15:39
rick_h_file the paperwork properly, I don't want any issues with processing lol15:39
krondoraye, the paperwork is always my weakpoint15:40
krondorpvcreate /dev/sda215:54
krondorwoops wrong window :)15:54
snap-lAll: We need to come up with a different location for the global jam16:14
snap-lunfortunately SRT isn't going to work out this weekend16:14
krondorrick_h_:  approval granted cya tonight16:17
brouschsnap-l: your apartment16:18
snap-lbrousch: Sure thing. I charge $1000 per person16:19
snap-lhttp://ropl.org/index.php/library-services/meeting-rooms <- $125 for 5 hours16:20
brouschfood and drinks allowed?16:20
snap-lbrousch: And if you saw how big my house is, you wouldn't offer it up. :)16:20
snap-lrick_h_ can attest to it's modest, yet crackerbox-like size.16:21
brouschgood idea. rick_h_'s house. then he will be able to attend16:21
snap-lNo, I'm not putting him through that16:22
brouschfeel free to move it out of ann arbor if you have to16:23
snap-lI'm going to post it to the list to see if anyone has any ideas16:24
snap-lUnfortunately, I'm not coming up with anything at the moment.16:24
brouschi wonder what U-M charges for a room16:26
snap-lI don't know of any U-M students to ask16:27
Blazeixyou could hit up some ann arbor CHC people, i think they _just_ moved their CHC to a u-m room16:31
rick_h_yea, @steiza  is the organizer listed on their meetup pages16:33
rick_h_might ping him to see if he knows the ropes on what they're doing16:33
brouschwait, don't we have WSU geekers in here?16:34
rick_h__stink_: ColonelPanic001 might have access to something?16:34
brouschU-M Unions room request http://uuis.umich.edu/munionsched/commrequest.cfm16:34
brouschno prices listed of course16:35
rick_h_snap-l: call up the CHC room maybe? doubt it's open though :/16:39
brouschdoes sourceforge have anything?16:41
brouschwhat about the various hackerspaces?16:46
greg-gthe a2 hackerspace is CRAMPED16:47
greg-gI mean, if only 5 people showed up, and you were ok on folding tables, and being right next to a bunch of nerds playing video games in a dark room16:47
greg-g(they share a space with Digital Ops, one of those things that you thought died in 2003: computer game rent by the $time places)16:48
brouschbut there's little reason to keep it in ann arbor. greg-g is not there, and jrwren is probably the only other one16:49
greg-gA2 downtown library has space someone can get, we did the Open Data hackathon thing there16:49
greg-gbrousch: very good point16:50
* greg-g just knows his old 'hood, not many other places16:50
brouschmorpace can host us16:50
snap-lbrousch: Doubtful16:56
snap-lWell, the Caribou R.O. Meeting room is available on Saturday from 7pm-11pm17:26
snap-lUnfortunately, not beforehand.17:27
rick_h_yea, that's rough for the west siders, and not sure if folks like jim would show for that or not17:28
rick_h_hmm, floss weekly has gone down the tubes? Figured I'd put it on in the background but don't see it scheduled17:31
snap-lWorst case, if we moved it to Sunday, would that work for people?17:31
snap-lI'm kinda loathe to do that.17:31
rick_h_so I can only speak for myself: sat night is cool with me and I could probably make that 90%17:32
greg-gI would try to kee the same date/time17:32
rick_h_sunday depends on the time17:32
krondora2hackerspacE?  all hands active?18:19
krondori3Detroit has lots of room, but probably not great for meetings. Most of the space is in the shop floor, and it can be noisy.18:21
krondorprobably too far sout/east as well for some (reading scrollback)18:21
snap-lkrondor: Not familiar with a2hackerspace or all hands active.18:23
brousch11pm is pretty late18:25
brouschbut it's a coffee shop, so i could drink a small caffeinated and bounce off the walls all night18:25
krondorWhat about other colleges; OCC, OU?18:26
brouschat this time i don't have any others coming with me18:27
brouschubuntu has really fallen out of favor over here18:27
mydogsnameisrudylikes what linux mint 12 is doing18:28
krondorI threw mint 12 on a vm, and I have to say I really didn't like the gnome3 activities overview thing18:29
snap-lActually, I think I have an OK from JoDee to have it here if need be18:29
krondorother than that, mint seems nice.  I don't think I'll stay on it though18:29
snap-lso I think that'll be the fallback18:30
brouschsnap-l: some apartment complexes have a common room you can reserve and rent18:30
snap-lbrousch: I'm no longer at an apartment. :)18:30
snap-lbut I'm right off I-75.18:31
brouschyou have a house?18:31
snap-llong story.18:31
brouschi must've missed that one18:31
snap-llong story.18:31
snap-lPlus we're w/in walking distance of downtown Royal Oak18:32
brouschmy sister lives out there18:32
brouschN Wilson Ave18:33
rick_h_snap-l: did you want me to ask the wife?18:33
snap-lrick_h_: re: having it at your place?18:33
rick_h_snap-l: yea18:33
snap-lUp to you18:34
rick_h_I mean if we take over upstairs can do dozen+ people w/o issue18:34
snap-lI think you're a little far for the downriver folks18:34
rick_h_yea, definitely18:34
snap-lrick_h_: We're going to clear out the living room, so I think we can manage 10-15 people18:35
rick_h_ok, know it can get tight there so wasn't sure what you wanted18:35
brouschhang the conference banner?18:35
snap-lYeah, we made it work for Christmas18:36
snap-lTrust me, I have the power of the squirrel18:36
rick_h_snap-l: ok, if you've got it then all good18:36
snap-lrick_h_: ty for the offer, though18:37
rick_h_snap-l: k18:37
brouschhey, we can all bring our kids and jodee can watch them!18:38
brouschsnap-l: how hard am i going to kicked for that one?18:38
snap-lbrousch: Only if you want them to learn how to build a nuclear reactor out of smoke detectors18:38
brouschi'm ok with that18:39
snap-lbrousch: You won't be. :)18:40
nullspaceanyone in here that uses synergy, ever notice that some times you can move between both screens at any horizontal point on the sccreen on one but only the top right on another?19:10
krondornullspace:  nope never had that problem19:16
nullspaceit usually is there when I start it up but then goes away, something is up with my X setup on my desktop19:17
rick_h_nullspace: no, I've got small quirks in where the top/bottom is, but only if I go hitting it19:39
snap-lYeah, I remember it being a tad quirky at times, but overall it worked OK19:40
rick_h_yea, happy with it19:40
rick_h_<3 vim... "gee I wish I had syntax coloring of this moinmoin wiki crap...oh look, there's a file to do it"19:49
greg-goh moin moin19:50
rick_h_yea, can't get away from it *sigh*19:51
brouschAny thoughts on this? http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/02/29/my-principle/20:44
snap-lExtremely troubling20:47
snap-lAlso, people who put formatting in machine-read-only excel files need to stop20:48
snap-lI swear, I'm going to write a program called tufte.py which will critique the formatting20:48
Blazeixbrousch: I agree with what you're saying, but things like the cloud9 ide might fix the issue20:55
snap-lI <3 it when pep8 runs with no errors / warnings after I get done editing it.20:56
snap-lIt's like getting a little hug20:56
snap-lof course, if I actually had tests for this code, that would be like getting a happy ending, but not getting too carried away.20:57
rick_h_brousch: kind of interesting, but then again you don't build a car while driving one, you don't build a house inside of one, etc20:59
brouschbut there are logical reasons those don't happen. what reason is there for no ide on android?21:00
rick_h_brousch: and web apps live on servers, not on mobile devices21:00
rick_h_brousch: because it's not an experience for large entry21:00
rick_h_I mean, shoot, my main development is on dual 1920 displays docked with a 7# keyboard and a trackball21:00
rick_h_and I find that limiting sometimes21:00
brouschi just use a laptop with a single 15" monitor21:02
Blazeixis it crazy foggy up north? i'm at the rencen, and can't see the buildings across the street...21:02
rick_h_brousch: yea, I mean you CAN do anything you want I guess21:02
rick_h_vim over ssh client to another machine21:02
Blazeixbrousch: wow, you should get a bigger monitor :)21:02
rick_h_brousch: yea, sure, but anyway. I just don't think it's feasible to say that an editor on an android phone with a paging through 'workspaces' like the home screen is going to make for a way to make great things21:04
brouschno, i was saying one monitor is enough for me because i use workspaces. on android you only see one program at a time anyways21:05
greg-gubuntu on android will solve all your problems, brousch :P21:06
brouschit's fragile and slow21:06
greg-gbut, I agree. it reminds me of Cory Doctorow's recent talk at CCC.21:06
greg-gnow, there is also the "but not everything is even capable, form factor wise, of doing that" and I agree with that too. but I think we are limiting our kids if we only give them an ipad21:07
greg-g(not that I'll give rowan an ipad, of course)21:08
brouschwell george has a chromebook, but it has the same limitations21:08
krondorwell I guess you can say there's vim and ports of gcc for android and keyboard/monitor support (hdmi out)21:08
krondorubuntu when it gets less fragile (and beefier hardware)21:09
rick_h_when was exposing your children to one way of doing/using things ever good?21:09
brouschyeah, actual linux on mobiles would fix the problem21:09
rick_h_great, tablets are cheaper, easier to use...help them grow out of them21:09
rick_h_this "think of the children" argument is bonkers21:10
brouschyou and i can help our kids, but what about the other 90% who can barely run windows?21:10
rick_h_then how are they worse off?21:10
rick_h_I didn't get a computer until college21:10
snap-lPeople get tablets because they aren't computers21:11
brouschwe had programmable computers to learn on, they will have non-programmable tablets21:11
rick_h_I program in linux for a living...it's not like if a 10yr old only uses a tablet they're stuck in life21:11
snap-lMy microwave has a computer, but I'm not inclined to disassemble it21:11
brouschsnap-l: shame on you21:12
snap-lBut, I do think people think of their computers as black boxes21:12
snap-land that sacares me21:12
snap-lthat's mainframe thinking21:12
rick_h_and cars are black boxes21:12
rick_h_and furnaces are black boxes21:12
snap-lrick_h_: Cares are black magic. :)21:12
snap-lcars, rather21:12
rick_h_just because you're inside of the field doesn't mean everyone else is going to be, or should be21:12
rick_h_I'm a cli loving hard core geek, I'm not over there teaching my wife how to use top21:13
brouschwhy do you have to be in the field to write a program?21:13
rick_h_why do you have to be a dr to write a prescription?21:13
rick_h_ok, then call it natural selection :)21:13
krondorbrousch:  app inventor runs in a browser, maybe it works on stock android and the experience is good for kids to learn on (like mindstorms)21:13
rick_h_seriously, those that are interested will do things21:13
brouschkrondor: i thought they killed that21:13
rick_h_tablets aren't replacing all computers in the house, they're replacing #2, #321:14
krondorthey passed it to MIT, and MIT looks to be maintaining it to some extent.21:14
krondoryou're right that the industry is moving towards black boxes though.. app stores/canned configs/etc..21:14
rick_h_but someone is still writing the crap that goes intot he black boxes21:15
brouschrick_h_: so let's ignore the kids argument. _I_ want to program for android on my tablet. what are my options?21:15
greg-gbrousch: I see the parallels with what you are saying and my experience dealing with the legal community21:15
rick_h_I don't know about you, but I never downloaded winzip back when I was on windows and changed the source code21:15
krondoreven datacenters are doing it (vblock, hp sql consolidation appliance, etc...)21:15
rick_h_brousch: and I want to build a fuel injector for my subaru with my woodworking tools in the garage21:16
rick_h_oh wait...not going to work. Right tools for the job21:16
brouschthat is a lame argument21:16
rick_h_so is saying that you want to write an app on a tablet.21:16
greg-gI think it is missing the point, or at least tlaking around it, rick_h_21:16
brouschthis is a thing has a frickin linux kernel21:16
rick_h_I want to use my tv remote to build a webpage21:16
krondorbrousch:  honestly you're looking at vim w/ scripting layer for android or remote desktop to a real computer for gcc and android SDK21:16
snap-lmy biggest concern is what happens when there's no more checkbook writers out there?21:17
krondorwith optional monitor / keyboard hookup to your android21:17
rick_h_brousch: then use your ssh client to ssh to a machine with the sdk and enjoy building your app21:17
snap-lcheckbook writing being the people who tinkered with their computer to write a program to balance their checkbook21:17
rick_h_or brousch, write tools that allow you to output the code via a tablet driven gui21:17
krondorthe gcc port for android is what I would call alpha21:17
snap-lThe itch scratching happens with a credit card, not with a reference card.21:17
rick_h_right, but the ecosystem is what I'd call alpha21:17
brouschok, now lets make that easy enough so lesser programmers can do it21:17
rick_h_how old is your computer you write programs on? how old is android?21:18
rick_h_brousch: ok, have fun with that21:18
brouschi will :P21:18
rick_h_but seriously, the development ecosystem on computers is decades old21:18
rick_h_this idea of apps on mobile devices is years old21:18
brouschcome on. it's a java app on an arm processor21:19
krondorbrousch:  People are trying to make it more approachable, but focusing on PCs as the coding device http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=141566121:19
snap-lI think we lost our way with Java. :)21:19
rick_h_I just don't think it's an issue21:20
krondorlots of efforts around automating the dev environment setup for PC since that is what confuses most noobies21:20
rick_h_most devices you don't dev for them on them21:20
snap-lYeah, the PC brought that about21:21
rick_h_krondor: it's "dev" that confuses most people21:21
rick_h_not that it's on a pc21:21
snap-lyou used to have to do cross-compilation for the Atari 260021:21
rick_h_ask them to write a web app and you get the same thing21:21
krondorI'm actually really excited to see what young kids are doing with aurdino and raspberrypi will be great too!21:21
brouschrick_h_'s nay-saying actually has me more fired up to do this21:22
rick_h_:) my mission is complete21:22
snap-lpissed off into action21:23

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