[04:32] <pleia2> feed is now going to the planet "There were some firewall issues with planet.u.c getting to the frontends for xubuntu.  This should be fixed now." :)
[10:05] <knome> pleia2, huh? it isn't?
[10:05] <knome> pleia2, oh right, fixed. good.
[10:35] <knome> Unit193, ding!
[13:45] <ochosi> btw, the plymouth theme doesn't look very nice atm. it looks like there's a light-sabor hovering beneath the logo (i.e. the blue hue of the glow is borked/incompatible with the new wallpaper)
[13:46] <ochosi> who's taking care of plymouth atm? madnick?
[13:51] <mr_pouit> nobody
[13:51] <ochosi> meh :(
[13:51] <mr_pouit> I replaced the background picture only
[13:51] <mr_pouit> noticed that the blue wasn't the same, and told it to knome :p
[13:52] <ochosi> is it easy to change the blue?
[13:52] <mr_pouit> so yeah, the progress bar image uses a different blue hue for its border
[13:52] <ochosi> cause i might be able to tell you what to change it to
[13:53] <mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/precise/files/head:/lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/
[13:53] <mr_pouit> probably only a small update for some pngs is needed
[13:54] <mr_pouit> there's no hardcoded color in the plymouth script, so it's only the png fault afaik
[14:02] <ochosi> it's really weird that they dropped resize-grips from gtk2 now
[14:03] <ochosi> right after they accepted the unico-patch to style the resize-grip in gtk3
[14:03] <ochosi> about plymouth: i'd rather have knome take care of that, i have to fix a few more greybird issues first
[14:03] <ochosi> and lightdm ideally
[14:04] <mr_pouit> too many issues were caused by the patch
[14:04] <ochosi> what patch? the gtk2 resizegrip?
[14:04] <mr_pouit> (it took them 1 year to notice that, though)
[14:04] <mr_pouit> yeah
[14:04] <ochosi> yeah, lol
[14:05] <ochosi> i mean that seemed clear from day1 tbh
[14:05] <mr_pouit> probably not to the design team :)
[14:06] <mr_pouit> - will fix issues with libreoffice (lp: #749986) and splash screens in other softwares (lp: #704105, #734381)
[14:06] <ochosi> where is the lightdm gtk-theme set again?
[14:06] <mr_pouit> (from the changelog)
[14:06] <mr_pouit> in /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf I think
[14:06] <ochosi> (doesn't seem to be in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf)
[14:06] <ochosi> ah
[14:08] <mr_pouit> "In libreoffice, dragging the window with the grip, displays the 'File' menu and blocks the resizing process (see the attached screenshot)."
[14:09] <ochosi> heh
[14:09] <mr_pouit> that was awesome
[14:09] <ochosi> nice one
[14:09] <ochosi> i was wondering whether we should advertise specific xfwm shortcuts more
[14:09] <ochosi> like alt+rightclick for window-resize
[14:10] <ochosi> hm, seems that trying to use lightdm-greeter.css from ambiance doesn't work for our greeter
[14:11] <ochosi> dunno why though, the class ".lightdm.menu" looks ok in a way
[14:13] <ochosi> and with ambiance lightdm looks okayish
[14:13] <ochosi> although not specifically themed
[14:15] <ochosi> mr_pouit: where can i find unity's lightdm greeter code?
[14:17] <mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-greeter-team/unity-greeter/trunk/files
[14:17] <ochosi> ty
[14:18] <ochosi> great, it's all vala
[14:27] <ochosi> we're using this: /usr/share/lightdm-gtk-greeter/greeter.ui, right?
[14:46] <Unit193> knome: Yeeeees?
[14:51] <G__81> hi knome 
[14:59] <mr_pouit> ochosi: yes
[14:59] <ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, good to know. btw, i just fixed the tab issue
[15:00] <mr_pouit> \\o
[15:00] <ochosi> o//
[15:00] <knome> G__81, hey
[15:01] <knome> mr_pouit, damn it, yeah, i must fix that...
[15:02] <mr_pouit> don't worry, the xubuntu pl will whip you so that you don't forget
[15:02] <mr_pouit> uh, no, wait
[15:02] <knome> :P
[15:03] <knome> skaet, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS seems to raise some confusion. do you think that page could in any case say anything about the derivatives?
[15:04] <knome> mr_pouit, do you have any idea if transparent png's work?
[15:04] <knome> mr_pouit, re: plymouth
[15:05] <skaet> knome,  its referencing Kubuntu,  but using the term "editions" - is that the source of the confusion?
[15:06] <knome> skaet, that too, probably, but generally not listing the derivative/flavor/whatever lts periods
[15:07] <skaet> How about "The Ubuntu project will decide which flavors will be LTS and support duration for each, early in the LTS development cycle."
[15:07] <knome> skaet, and a link to a page that lists those durations?
[15:07] <knome> skaet, or just list those durations?
[15:07] <Unit193> knome: I see, thank you!
[15:07] <knome> skaet, i mean, it would be ok even in the very bottom of the page...
[15:08] <knome> Unit193, ;)
[15:08] <knome> Unit193, np
[15:11] <skaet> knome,  problem is that this is a general page,  not just one for this release.   The durations change based on project.    Where the durations should be expressed is:
[15:11] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest
[15:12] <skaet> which is still missing your signoff.... that I've got the details there correct.  ;)
[15:12] <knome> skaet, i see. but i can also see why it's confusing for somebody to not have that list...
[15:12] <knome> skaet, i don't understand what's "ship-live" ?:)
[15:13] <knome> skaet, and why do we have "desktop" and nobody else does?
[15:13] <skaet> rather not create another page - when the ReleaseManifest is already there,  and an established part of our infrastructure.  :)
[15:13] <knome> mr_pouit, HALP!
[15:13] <knome> skaet, yeah. maybe just link to that and take care of updating every release :)
[15:13] <skaet> knome,  those are the seeds, and I cut/pasted from the last version - they may not be accurate anymore,  and if so,  should be fixed.  :)
[15:14] <knome> ok... in that case... mr_pouit: MORE HALP!
[15:14] <skaet> lol,  :)
[15:16] <skaet> hmmm..... what also might be useful,  is to put onto the Release Schedule,  which of the point releases you'll be participating in.     Which would illustrate the expectations as well.    ie. does it make sense for you to participate in 12.04.1 if so,  lets add a Xubuntu 12.04.1 to the Release Schedule.... etc.  thoughts?
[15:17] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule - scroll down past the release date...
[15:17] <knome> yep. i'll have to check that with mr_pouit, too.
[15:17] <knome> (i hope he's getting enough highlights!)
[15:18] <skaet> :)   let me know what you think might work for you,  and we can talk with the other flavors that are LTS  as well. 
[15:18] <knome> i can see how it'd help if the project leader was a more technical person ;)
[15:18] <knome> sure, thanks
[15:19] <Unit193> Hmmmm..... Seems all are set as 18M duration, while some thought they were just doing a normal release.
[15:23] <skaet> knome,  added some wording changes to the LTS page.   Still need to figure out how to make explicit ref to the manifest in such a way it won't get stale,  but problem for another day.  :)
[15:24] <knome> yup :) thanks
[15:24] <knome> bbl ->
[15:52] <G__81> hi knome i was the one who sent the request of joining the xubuntu team today 
[15:52] <G__81> in Launchpad
[16:07] <knome> G__81, yeah, i figured out. :)
[16:07] <G__81> knome, how ? :)
[16:08] <knome> G__81, one of the team leader secrets :P
[16:08] <G__81> does LP have my nick ? i mean is it updated. i dont remember 
[16:08] <knome> anyway, as said in the message, we don't usually give out team memberships in LP right away
[16:08] <knome> (unless there is a specific reason, like needing to be part of the team to access something)
[16:09] <knome> G__81, is there something specific you'd like to work on?
[16:09] <G__81> yeah 
[16:09] <G__81> knome, let me introduce myself
[16:10] <knome> sure :)
[16:11] <G__81> I have been contributing to open source projects and have been using Linux for many years. I have been a fedora contributor maintain couple of packages and i  am an active contributor to quagga (open source routing daemon) and also sent 2-3 patches to kernel and UML
[16:12] <G__81> i dont know anything about Ubuntu Processes. I have not done packaging either 
[16:12] <knome> right :)
[16:12] <knome> mr_pouit and micahg are people you want to talk with
[16:13] <knome> they can help you get started mostly
[16:13] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted too
[16:13] <G__81> knome, is packaging the only way ?
[16:14] <knome> G__81, no, not really, but knowing it at least a bit helps :)
[16:14] <knome> the xubuntu team doesn't actually write much own code
[16:15] <knome> we generally speaking just gather stuff and make sure it works well together
[16:15] <ochosi> this limitation (code-writing) is mostly due to the little amount of manpower
[16:15] <G__81> hmm ok i get it 
[16:16] <knome> that too, but also, when we do write code, we try to get most of it upstream :)
[16:16] <G__81> my question is xfce development is as such slow so what do you guys do every version as such 
[16:16] <knome> G__81, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
[16:16] <knome> G__81, that's our roadmap for the precise release
[16:17] <knome> there is usually lots of little things to fix...
[16:18] <G__81> oh ok
[16:19] <G__81> ok how can i help apart from packaging
[16:19] <knome> and if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule, you can see the feature freeze, for example, was already on feb 16 for this cycle
[16:19] <knome> this basically means there isn't really 6 months to do stuff...
[16:20] <knome> for this cycle, there is quite little what you can do since we've past most of the freezes
[16:20] <G__81> oh ok
[16:20] <knome> a good way to start is to start following the xubuntu-devel mailing list, this IRC channel and just hang around
[16:20] <knome> getting to know the ubuntu procedures is good too
[16:20] <knome> and any kind of communication is encouraged
[16:21] <G__81> yeah i could do that 
[16:21] <G__81> :)
[16:21] <knome> you can also help with testing the releases and reporting bugs if you notice them
[16:22] <knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
[16:22] <knome> for example, there's no tests done for today, yet, except the upgrade tests
[16:22] <knome> Unit193 can help you getting started with testing
[16:22] <Unit193> Charlie-tca is best, and GridCube is another one.
[16:22] <knome> it's pretty straightforward though, just follow the testcases
[16:23] <knome> Unit193, sure. but they aren't online nearly as much as you are :)
[16:23] <G__81> lol
[16:23] <G__81> Unit 193 ?
[16:24] <G__81> i dont see it 
[16:24] <G__81> i see a table 
[16:24] <knome> G__81, you're referring to the tests?
[16:24] <G__81> yes
[16:24] <G__81> no 
[16:24] <G__81> builds page
[16:24] <knome> yeah
[16:24] <knome> on that page, scroll down to "xubuntu"
[16:25] <G__81> ok 
[16:25] <knome> there's four rows for all the images
[16:25] <G__81> yeah
[16:25] <knome> next to each one there is a column "mandatory"
[16:25] <knome> well, as you can see, none of those have been done today
[16:25] <knome> let's say you want to test the desktop i386 image
[16:25] <knome> you click on that
[16:26] <G__81> ok...
[16:26] <knome> and you get a different table, where you can see all the tests that need to be done for the i386 desktop image
[16:26] <G__81> i see an other table 
[16:26] <knome> on the left there is an icon with a document and a tool
[16:27] <knome> if you click that, you'll see what you need to do to be able to pass/fail the test case 
[16:27] <G__81> oh ok 
[16:27] <G__81> i see it
[16:28] <knome> you can report passes/fails after you've logged in
[16:28] <knome> and there's also the download info link there :)
[16:28] <knome> if you do testing day-after-day, i recommend using some kind of syncing
[16:28] <knome> that way, you don't need to download 100% of the iso every day again
[16:29] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-tools has some easy scripts.
[16:29] <G__81> how do i do that
[16:29] <Unit193> Using rsync or zsync.
[16:29] <G__81> oh ok 
[16:30] <G__81> i have an other question 
[16:30] <knome> sure
[16:30] <G__81> you guys also do packaging right, i see xfce 4.10 is under development and current is 4.8 so whats that you guys package 
[16:30] <knome> 4.8 is in precise
[16:30] <ochosi> (with a few patches from 4.9.x)
[16:30] <G__81> for eg: I maintain the thunar-python bindings in fedora and i dont see any updates there coz it hardly gets updated 
[16:31] <G__81> for 12.04 also its gonna be 4.8 
[16:31] <knome> G__81, yes, precise == 12.04
[16:31] <G__81> yeah so whats that you are gonna package 
[16:31] <G__81> if i have to package something what would it be ?
[16:32] <knome> for precise, we won't package nothing at this stage :)
[16:32] <knome> we get most of xfce stuff from debian
[16:33] <knome> but we do some changes on top of that, with ubuntu-deltas
[16:33] <knome> but seriously, mr_pouit is much better in explaining that :)
[16:33] <G__81> so this release the only way i could get involved is testing is it 
[16:33] <knome> that, and bug fixes
[16:34] <knome> most of that's probably artwork-related
[16:34] <knome> (fighting with GTK3...)
[16:34] <G__81> i could do bug fixes 
[16:34] <G__81> i could try rather :)
[16:35] <knome> again, i have to point you to mr_pouit :)
[16:35] <knome> or micahg 
[16:35] <G__81> :)
[16:41] <G__81> knome, ok nice to know all these 
[16:41] <G__81> :)
[16:43] <knome> sure :)
[16:44] <knome> if you have any other questions... feel free to ask in the channel
[16:44]  * knome is off for now
[16:44] <Unit193> Adios knome, catch you Sun/Mon.
[16:45] <G__81> thanks knome 
[16:45] <knome> Unit193, hf with no pc :)
[16:45] <Unit193> :D
[16:45] <knome> G__81, np :)
[16:50] <micahg> G__81: 4.10 will go in 12.10
[16:50] <Unit193> And GTK3 even later. :/
[16:50] <G__81> yeah micahg i could see it 
[16:50] <G__81> :)
[16:52] <G__81> micahg, xfce does not have a method by which i can auto-arrange icons on desktop 
[16:52] <G__81> is that available in xfce?
[16:53] <micahg> idk, I thought Thunar handled that
[16:53] <ochosi> no, xfdesktop handles the desktop
[16:54] <ochosi> unfortunately it has quite a few shortcomings, because it's practically unmaintained for a while already now
[16:54] <G__81> is it available ?
[16:55] <ochosi> if you mean sort-modes then i guess no (but i have to admit that i never use the desktop-icons)
[17:00] <G__81> ochosi, yeah auto-arrange lets say i delete an icon on desktop then there is a gap formed coz the other icons dont go up automatically to take up the blank space on the desktop right
[17:00] <ochosi> yup
[17:00] <ochosi> that doesn't work
[17:02] <G__81> oh ok
[17:02] <ochosi> the long-term plan is to make the desktop a thunar-extension
[17:02] <ochosi> so that it would have the same features and behave consistently
[17:02] <G__81> lxde has that feature 
[17:03] <ochosi> but that'll be a long way down the road i fear
[17:06] <G__81> why is xfce devel so slow ?
[17:06] <ochosi> too little manpower
[17:07] <ochosi> no paid devs, no company behind it
[17:07] <G__81> but the good thing is that they have not screwed up the interface unlike gnome
[17:07] <G__81> oh ok
[17:15] <G__81> sometimes i get a dialog box which says some keyring blah blah.. 
[17:15] <G__81> i dont have any clue on why i get it sometimes 
[17:15] <G__81> any clue on why we get that ?