[08:00] <diplo> Morning all
[08:18] <jacobw> morning diplo
[09:18] <shookees> Hey! :)
[09:39] <popey> Morning all
[09:43] <AlanBell> morning
[09:43]  * AlanBell wonders if Ubuntu will run on a Qualcomm MSM 8260A/8960 Snapdragon S4 Krait Dual-core 1.5Ghz CPU
[09:47] <christel> good morning alans :)
[10:49] <AlanBell> ooh our new freepbx thing thinks # is a pound sign
[10:49] <AlanBell> good morning christel
[10:52] <diplo> +
[10:56] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/vm-instructions.wav that is better
[11:01] <diplo> What the states call the pound sign isn't it
[11:03] <AlanBell> apparenly it was once an abbreviation for lbs the old weight unit of measure
[11:04] <AlanBell> that the Americans still use to break satellites with etc
[11:04] <mattt> morning all
[11:08] <diplo> morning mattt
[11:14] <AlanBell> hash key installed \o/
[11:42] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> \o
[11:43] <brobostigon> o/
[11:43] <daubers> o/
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> o// o// \\o \\o
[11:44] <brobostigon> eeek, what happened there on bbc news 24, they killed click, half way through, and why has the weather came on. ?
[11:45] <brobostigon> ohdear, seems some minion pressed the wrong button.
[12:17] <mattt> yo diplo
[12:17] <mattt> well, off to homebase for paint
[12:17]  * mattt is doing the DIY thing today :-/
[12:17] <diplo> Tuesday for me :)
[12:33] <popey> do we have a sane way to install skype on ubuntu 12.04 yet?
[12:33] <popey> AlanBell / ali1234 ?
[12:38] <AlanBell> no
[12:38] <AlanBell> we have two equivalent not-sane ways
[12:38] <AlanBell> either the 64bit package from natty, or the 32 bit package from oneiric
[12:39] <AlanBell> each installs the same version, which works, and a heap of :i386 libs, which dpkg sometimes removes and re-adds for no apparent reason
[12:41] <diplo> Anyone know if dotdeb is a safe/ok place to install packages from ?
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> diplo: What do you need from them?
[12:42] <diplo> php5-fpm for lucid
[12:46] <diplo> https://launchpad.net/~nginx/+archive/php5.3
[12:46] <diplo> seems nginx team are doing something for it already
[12:47] <popey> AlanBell: ugh, ta
[12:51]  * AlanBell starts a hangout on G+
[12:51] <daubers> uh oh
[12:58] <ali1234> popey: just send them this link: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/s/skype/skype_2.2.0.35-0oneiric2_i386.deb
[12:58] <ali1234> the bug with software center is fixed
[13:05] <brobostigon> eeek, G+ was crawling there.
[13:07] <AlanBell> it was a bit, but we could see you, it was mostly static images though
[13:07] <brobostigon> yes,
[13:10] <brobostigon> aswell as it being on my eeepc, so somewhat resource limited.
[13:10] <brobostigon> AlanBell: and nice hat, :)
[13:10]  * MartijnVdS is setting up rrdtool/collectd on an old AP
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> which will also get temparature/pressure data from a sensor connected to an arduino :)
[13:11] <brobostigon> :)
[13:46] <cliftonts> That's better!
[13:46] <cliftonts> I managed to lose the channel
[13:54] <cliftonts> so who's about then?
[13:54]  * penguin42 yawns
[13:54] <cliftonts> well said
[13:56] <daubers> o/
[13:59] <cliftonts> well, this is exciting isn't it?
[13:59] <penguin42> terribly
[14:00] <cliftonts> i wonder where they've all gone
[14:00] <daubers> lunch time probably
[14:01] <alexcockell> Sorry guys...
[14:02] <cliftonts> why? what have you done?
[14:05] <alexcockell> Nothing... just been browsing... mostly lurking..
[14:05] <cliftonts> I'm at work but it's pretty quiet here too so I'm twiddling my thumbs
[14:29] <cliftonts> I'm not even sure how to tell if I've been disconnected when it's this quiet!
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> o/
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> sssssh
[14:42] <cliftonts> oh look! Life!
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> [as Marvin said]  life... don't talk to me life. Here I am, brain the size of a planet....  ;)
[14:45] <daubers> !ping
[14:46] <SuperEngineer> [whoops - that should be... "me *about*  life"]  (sorry Mr. Adams
[14:46] <SuperEngineer> !ping Marvin
[14:47] <SuperEngineer> [that got the bot!]
[14:50] <SuperEngineer> dear lubotu3 - thanks for your
[14:50] <SuperEngineer> pm - Sorry, I don't know anything about 'ping Marvin'
[14:50]  * AlanBell reboots SuperEngineer 
[14:51] <SuperEngineer> click click
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I think you broke his ZIP drive
[14:51] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[14:52] <AlanBell> if people are bored feel free to join #ubuntu-accessibility where we are doing some work on fictional persona documents, profiles of people who use accessibility tools
[14:52] <cliftonts> afternoon AlanBell
[14:52] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas
[14:52] <AlanBell> and specifically http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon
[15:49] <ali1234> AlanBell: did you see that thing i linked the other day
[15:50] <ali1234> vinuxproject.org
[15:53] <ali1234> i'm just wondering why they have a seperate project
[15:55] <popey> thats been going for quite a while
[15:56] <brunogirin> ali1234: reading the accessibility list, I'd say that's because they feel that Ubuntu doesn't put enough emphasis on accessibility
[16:06] <AlanBell> basically because they can make a different compromise in that project
[16:06] <AlanBell> in the main Ubuntu the design team dream up some new visual crack and it gets in
[16:06] <AlanBell> then later on someone tells them how broken it is and we set about fixing it
[16:07] <AlanBell> stuff like the global menu, *everything* is a checkbox menu item
[16:08] <AlanBell> visually it all looks like normal menus, but it is rather broken for screen readers (there is a fix landing soon to set the hints so they look like the right type of items to screen readers)
[16:09] <AlanBell> stuff like the HUD arrives without being readable
[16:09] <AlanBell> the hold super to get a list of shortcuts is non keyboard focussable so orca users have no hope of getting to it
[16:12] <SuperEngineer> thought... include shortcuts as a main document in home folder.  A document is readable to screen reader.
[16:13] <AlanBell> sure, there are ways of doing alternatives and workarounds
[16:13] <AlanBell> a static document doesn't cut it because the overlay updates if you change the shortcuts
[16:14] <SuperEngineer> [include mthe document in Update Manager?
[16:14] <SuperEngineer> *the
[16:15] <AlanBell> yeah, there are any number of places it could have been put, but it is broken by design
[16:16] <AlanBell> in orca preferences there is a keybindings page with most shortcuts on it
[16:16] <AlanBell> but that isn't really the point. The shortcuts overlay is a new feature that landed with zero thought whatsoever that it might be totally inaccessible
[16:17] <SuperEngineer> that's a whoops then.... will put brain to work for better idea
[16:19] <brunogirin> AlanBell: I see that sort of problems all the time with web site design; it's actually quite a difficult nut to crack!
[16:19] <brunogirin> even with guidelines line WCAG, which you don't have in desktop UI design
[16:19] <AlanBell> sure, it can be hard
[16:19] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... what about a long key press in Orca causing playback of a shortcut list audio file?
[16:19] <brunogirin> maybe that could be something to do? create a UCAG for Ubuntu UI design?
[16:19] <AlanBell> the thing is the gnome framework does actually work, you have to go out of your way to break it
[16:21] <brunogirin> which Unity does s
[16:21] <brunogirin> as it's all under the hood
[16:22] <AlanBell> yeah, stuff like the dash and lenses are not treeview widgets althought they look a bit like one, the launcher isn't standard, the global menu abuses the menu items etc.
[16:23] <AlanBell> it is kind of fixable mostly, but would be nice if it was designed in from the start
[16:25] <brunogirin> agreed but finding good developers with accessibility experience is hard
[16:27] <AlanBell> yeah, which is why I want to get more general awareness of the requirement and how to test things with orca
[16:27] <AlanBell> you don't need to be blind to find out your application is broken for blind users
[16:27] <brunogirin> true but having seen how a blind user uses a computer helps a lot with understanding the issues
[16:28] <AlanBell> or visually impaired users like Simon http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon
[16:28] <brunogirin> I never understood them until I saw Robin Christopherson from AbilityNet do a talk at a conference
[16:28] <AlanBell> http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/meet-daniela/ our blind persona
[16:34] <penguin42> AlanBell: I'm curious about the ubuntu-won't boot without a monitor
[16:35] <AlanBell> penguin42: that is worth a re-test with a live CD
[16:39] <cliftonts> wow! what happened while I was gone?
[16:49] <ahayzen> Is the Compiz Enhanced Zoom enabled by default in 12.04 or do you have to start it via CCSM or System Settings?
[16:58] <Azelphur> how do you flush DNS in Ubuntu? Every single guide seems to tell me to install a caching deamon first which seems stupid xD
[16:58] <cliftonts> As far as I'm aware it's enabled but there are no key combinations enabled for it
[16:58] <AlanBell> ahayzen: just checking now
[16:58] <penguin42> Azelphur: on 12.04 there is already a cache installed
[16:58] <Azelphur> on 11.10?
[16:58] <ahayzen> AlanBell: thanks was just wondering
[16:59] <Azelphur> maybe it's my router doing the caching :P
[16:59] <penguin42> Azelphur: Not by default; and I don't think there is any DNS caching at all - hmm
[17:00] <Azelphur> well actually something is weird, because I've edited my hosts file and it's still resolving bad info
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Processes only read /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf once
[17:01] <AlanBell> ahayzen: yes, cliftonts is right, the plugin is turned on but there are no bindings set which is a bit useless
[17:01] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I'm running dig and getting the old results
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so you might need to restart the process that's doing the lookup
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ah, caching NS? :)
[17:01] <Azelphur> dig is a run once thing, it doesn't stay open
[17:01] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> Hm, cool. Channel tunnel gets GSM by July.
[17:02] <ahayzen> AlanBell: weird, in oneiric I had to add my on key combo... I usually go for Super+Button 4
[17:02] <AlanBell> ahayzen: yeah, me too, super+button4/button5 to zoom out
[17:02] <AlanBell> I will see if that can be set up by default if you turn on zoom in the accessibility settings thing
[17:03] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: *shrug* if I've edited hosts though there's no cache that should override that?
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: dig doesn't look at /etc/hosts, only at DNS
[17:03] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: derp :D
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> ¯\(°_o)/¯
[17:04] <ahayzen> AlanBell: In 11.10 i get 'No shortcut set' from the Universal Access... so how is the user supposed to enable this?
[17:05] <AlanBell> ahayzen: with ccsm right now
[17:05] <ahayzen> thats not the best solution really is it? ... As CCSM comes up with that warning at startup in 12.04?
[17:06] <AlanBell> no it is a pathetic solution
[17:06]  * AlanBell bzr branches gnome-control-centre
[17:06] <ali1234> all compiz bindings are messed up on 12.04 right now
[17:06] <ali1234> i can't even switch workspaces from the keyboard
[17:09] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried windows-ctrl-arrow (rather than alt?)
[17:09] <AlanBell> ali1234: ctrl+alt+cursor
[17:09] <penguin42> AlanBell: I thought 12.04 had changed away from ctrl?
[17:09] <AlanBell> I think they might have had problems with things taking control of super from the nux layer
[17:10] <AlanBell> unity is rather greedy when it comes to grabbing keys
[17:13]  * ahayzen wishes Gnome-control-centre was in python
[17:14] <ali1234> yeah none of that stuff works
[17:14] <ali1234> e-zoom doesn't work either
[17:15] <ahayzen> ali1234: I thought this was supposed to be an LTS release with everything being stable and fixed?
[17:16] <ali1234> i think the idea of stable releases was abandoned about a year ago
[17:16] <ahayzen> what when Unity was released for the Desktop?
[17:16] <penguin42> ahayzen: Stable isn't quite the same as all fixed
[17:17] <AlanBell> ahayzen: it is not released yet
[17:17] <AlanBell> the last LTS did not have unity in it
[17:17] <brunogirin> hence why we are here
[17:17] <ali1234> there is still a bug in natty that effectively crashes the machine and forces a reset, and it can't be fixed because unity has no same development history
[17:17] <ahayzen> But its in Beta ... i guess there is a month and a bit
[17:18] <ali1234> only the latest version on unity ever gets any work done on it, and none of that work can be backported to the supposed "stable" release
[17:18] <penguin42> ali1234: If it crashes the machine that's not unity's fault - that's the graphics driver
[17:18] <penguin42> (or kernel)
[17:18] <ali1234> penguin42: it crashes the machine because unity gets confused and stops accepting input
[17:19] <ali1234> it is absolutely 100% unity's fault, and nobody knows how it got fixed, and the change that fixes it can't be applied to the version on natty because it's so different
[17:19] <gord> ^^ all nonsense
[17:19] <AlanBell> gosh that whole chunk of universal access settings is all about gnome-magnifier which we don't ship
[17:19] <ali1234> you can of course go and read the bug report if you want to
[17:20] <ahayzen> AlanBell: Thats not good right?
[17:21] <AlanBell> ahayzen: not great, and indeed this is .c files :~/
[17:21] <ahayzen> I should really learn C aswell as Python ... but coursework comes first :(
[17:21] <AlanBell> the .ui files are xml things, probably should be edited with some version of glade, but I never seem to have the same version of glade that has been used to create the UI files
[17:22] <brunogirin> AlanBell: well, like most of GNOME TBH
[17:23] <AlanBell> wonder if it all works if you have gnome-mag installed
[17:24] <ali1234> bug 826059
[17:24] <ali1234> ^ apparently this bug is all nonsense
[17:24] <ali1234> "it never happened"
[18:11] <mgdm> How do I move the Unity dock to the right of the screen? It's not obvious...
[18:12] <mgdm> (I'm not sure if I mean 'dock' or 'launcher' or something else)
[18:13] <mgdm> Oh, you can't. Brilliant.
[18:16] <SuperEngineer> Anyone found a way of including G+ in Gwibber yet?
[18:18] <DJones> http://iloveubuntu.net/gwibber-receive-google-plugin-probably-ubuntu-1204 looks like its not ready yet
[18:22] <ahayzen> I though the G+ API was read-only at the moment?
[18:23] <SuperEngineer> according to bug #805452 - it is still reads only
[18:26] <SuperEngineer> [my opinion is that G+ thinks revenue is endangered if other apps have access]
[18:31] <DJones> AlanBell: Have you seen the last email to the list?
[18:32] <AlanBell> yes
[18:32] <DJones> I did wonder if that was part of your testing
[18:32] <DJones> to see what responses it got
[18:33] <AlanBell> there are a few reports of it starting muted, I have had it happen to me, I will go find the bugs in a bit
[18:55]  * brunogirin rearranged gmail folders, now thunderbird is synchronising 10k messages: oops!
[19:50]  * AlanBell slaps unity and the HUD
[19:50] <AlanBell> if you turn off the key to show the HUD so alt doesn't get pinched by unity when you are using virtual machines it breaks alt+prtscr
[19:51] <ali1234> did it also break your workspace switching?
[19:53] <AlanBell> no
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: no that's the remapping of Ctrl+Alt+arrows to Super+Shift+arrows
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> automagically
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> for some weird reason
[19:54] <ali1234> ah
[19:54] <ali1234> yeah that works
[19:55]  * MartijnVdS mapped them back
[19:55] <AlanBell> it was super+shift+arrows for me yesterday
[19:57] <tombrough> apt-get install xfce ;-)
[19:57] <ali1234> why?
[19:57] <tombrough> anything to get away from unity ....
[19:57] <ali1234> if i wanted to use a barely supported and out of date desktop... i'd use gnome fallback
[19:58] <tombrough> each to his own ...
[19:58] <ali1234> how do i configure this new dnsmasq stuff?
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge dnsmasq
[19:58] <ali1234> i don't think that will help
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> My system works fine without it
[19:59] <ali1234> i want to configure a dns server for specific domain
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> I don't see what it adds
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> it breaks bits of ipv6
[19:59] <ali1234> i don't use ipv6
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> dnsmasq is a dhcp server.. why are they installing dhcp servers on all machines?
[20:00] <ali1234> wrong
[20:00] <ali1234> clue is in name
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> "Dnsmasq is a lightweight, easy to configure, DNS forwarder and DHCP server."
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> from apt-cache show
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> Description-en: Small caching DNS proxy and DHCP/TFTP server
[20:00] <ali1234> DNS forwarder
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> No, also a server.
[20:00] <ali1234> so how do i configure it?
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> by editing a file in /etc?
[20:01] <ali1234> which one?
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> dnsmasq.conf?
[20:01] <ali1234> does not exist
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> maybe in one of the pre/post up/down-scripts in  /etc/network/
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> uhr s/scripts/dirs
[20:01] <ali1234> --conf-file=/var/run/nm-dns-dnsmasq.conf
[20:02] <ali1234> so i need to patch network manager probably
[20:02] <AlanBell> http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
[20:02] <ali1234> that should be easy enough
[20:02] <ali1234> yeah that page doesn't answer any of my questions at all
[20:03] <AlanBell> ok so ask stgraber
[20:04] <ali1234> where can i find him? ;)
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> Canada.
[20:04] <AlanBell> stgraber is here
[20:04] <ali1234> will it obey extra configs in /etc/dnsmasq.d?
[20:05] <ali1234> one way to find out i guess
[20:10] <ali1234> looks like it doesn't
[20:10] <jpds> ali1234: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: configure the interface in /etc/network/interfaces so n-m doesn't pick it up
[20:10] <ali1234> no
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> then you can use whatever you want
[20:10] <ali1234> i don't want to configure an interface
[20:10] <ali1234> i don't want to configure my stuff manually
[20:10] <ali1234> this is not 1997
[20:11] <ali1234> i just want to add an extra DNS server for a specific domain
[20:11] <ali1234> i just need to get two extra lines into the dnsmasq configuration somehow
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> But.. configuring things is for POWER USERS and Ubuntu is not for them! </design_team>
[20:11] <dwatkins> haha
[20:12] <ali1234> yes, configuring interfaces manually is for power users
[20:12] <dwatkins> doing it from the command line is old skool
[20:12] <jpds> dwatkins: No, we have nm-tool for doing that.
[20:12] <dwatkins> ah ok, jpds
[20:15] <ali1234> you lot are worse than me
[20:25] <ali1234> so i can patch this into networ-manager
[20:28] <penguin42> nm-cli lets you bring stuff up and down from the command line; not sure what else you can do from the command line; you could tweek /etc/NetworkManager - but I'm not sure how much is changeable from the config files
[20:28] <ali1234> nothing, all the dnsmasq config is hardcoded or comes from an autogenerated config file which is also hard coded
[20:29] <ali1234> oh hang on whats this "any other random configs" sounds like what i need
[20:30] <ali1234> but where does tjhat come from?
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> (this is why I removed dnsmasq)
[20:31] <ali1234> wah wah wah
[20:31] <ali1234> you removed dnsmasq because you are too afraid to read source code?
[20:32] <penguin42> ali1234: My /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf has a line      dns=dnsmasq      I guess taking that out might do it?
[20:32] <ali1234> might do what?
[20:32] <ali1234> i dont want to disable dnsmasq
[20:32] <penguin42> oh, someone did
[20:32] <penguin42> oh, you wanted to add some stuff didn't you - hmm
[20:32] <ali1234> i want to actually, you know, use it
[20:34] <penguin42> ali1234: I'd try and stop nm starting it's own
[20:34] <ali1234> then i will have to start it manually myself
[20:34] <penguin42> nod
[20:34] <ali1234> and make sure it is always running
[20:34] <ali1234> otherwise no internet
[20:35] <penguin42> I'd assume it can be made to start at boot
[20:36] <ali1234> looks like i need to make a plugin. sounds easy enough
[20:37] <penguin42> is the Ubuntu dnsmasq thing hacked in or done as a plugin?
[20:48] <popey> Evening all.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> \o mr Pope
[20:49] <popey> ooh! you!
[20:49] <popey> i have a friend moving to .nl soon
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> Good choice :)
[20:49] <popey> can I give him your email addy for help if he has any localisation issues?
[20:49] <popey>  ☺
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> Assuming he's done his basic homework, sure :)
[20:50] <popey> like which broadband provider, that kind of local issues
[20:50] <popey> he was looking it up but it was all in hurdy gurdy language
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> Broadband depends a lot on location. And whether he also wants TV, phone, etc.
[20:51] <popey> yeah, details I am unaware of
[20:51] <popey> he's got a week to find a place
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> anyway, sure :)
[20:51] <popey> and its his first week at work
[20:51] <popey> he has a relocation company who should do everything for him
[20:51] <popey> but always nice to have a 2nd opinion from a local ☺
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> popey: funda.nl + Google translate ;)
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> (if only.. :))
[21:24] <christel> IK WIL EEN OPBLAASSCHAAP
[21:24]  * christel communicates with MartijnVdS 
[21:24] <Azelphur> google translates that as "I want an inflatable sheep" XD
[21:25] <christel> \o/
[21:25] <christel> that is indeed what i said :D
[21:25] <Azelphur> rofl, I agree with your motives and wish to join your cause.
[21:25] <christel> wooo
[21:25]  * DJones offers a pin
[21:28]  * Azelphur wears pin with pride
[21:28] <christel> hehe
[21:42] <daftykins> that pin won't mix well with inflatable sheep
[21:44] <mgdm> wt
[21:44] <mgdm> f
[21:44] <mgdm> that was a hell of a moment to reattach irssi
[21:45] <daftykins> :D
[21:45] <daftykins> as was it for i
[21:52] <christel> haha
[22:45] <czajkowski> aloha
[22:46] <daftykins> yo
[22:46] <tombrough> will the raspberry pi really make a difference ? will kids be enthused to learn programming or will they simply go back to their xbox, playstation or wii?
[22:50] <daftykins> imo all kids have laptops these days so i doubt it'll change anything
[22:54] <popey> evening
[22:54] <daftykins> hi
[22:55] <tombrough> perhaps instead of introducing another gadget, perhaps we should ban all game consoles.... if you want to play games fine ... but you will have to write them first....
[22:56] <daftykins> *shudder*
[22:56] <daftykins> can you just do that after GTA V is out please?
[22:56] <popey> i think the rpi has a certain niche possibility
[22:57] <tombrough> but its very doubtful that it will actually achieve its primary purpose of introducing more kids to programming.
[22:58] <popey> i am optimistic
[22:59]  * andypiper jumps up and down saying "me too"
[22:59] <andypiper> it definitely needs a nice curriculum and tools behind it
[22:59] <andypiper> (evening all)
[22:59] <tombrough> we need course ware, teachers and national curriculum that promotes and enthuses programming rather than office "productivity" tools.
[22:59] <andypiper> indeed - and we are working on the course ware
[23:02] <tombrough> but the pi and its software will not provide that silver bullet it cannot work on its own it needs a co-ordinated strategy. At my school (in the 80's) we had plenty of BBC Micros but no teachers ... it worked for me because when it came to learning about computers I was self motivated, but these are much different times.
[23:03] <andypiper> there are things afoot which cannot yet be spoken of
[23:05] <tombrough> ?
[23:35]  * penguin42 wonders if andypiper is really slardybartfarst
[23:38] <penguin42> I don't really see how the PI will help teach programming TBH
[23:58] <andypiper> on its own - it won't. But it is affordable -> greater accessibility. The rest requires curriculum and support