[00:11] <elky> those were sleepers by the looks
[00:11] <elky> oh no, only daniel
[00:44] <Corey> lolcat needs to hush.
[00:45] <elky> lolcat needs much more than that.
[00:45] <elky> i'd settle for hushing though.
[05:01] <BetaBrain> hlep please
[05:01] <EvilResistance> FYI, to all ops
[05:01] <EvilResistance> <BetaBrain> one user in ubuntu-it spamm  bad words
[05:01] <EvilResistance> <EvilResistance> BetaBrain, call !ops in channel
[05:01] <EvilResistance> <BetaBrain> <Sunderland06> he was a saxman from the state of tennessee, first set in with the band at the ripe old age of 3.... weeks old
[05:01] <BetaBrain> urgent
[05:01] <EvilResistance> from #freenode
[05:01] <BetaBrain> hi all
[05:01] <Corey> Wat
[05:01] <BetaBrain> sorry
[05:01] <EvilResistance> any ops within #ubuntu-it, betabrain is here and needs help with this.
[05:01] <BetaBrain> this user  is  spamm bad words
[05:02] <BetaBrain>  Last addr  : ~Sunderlan@Wikipedia/Sunderland06
[05:02] <pangolin> BetaBrain: I will try to find someone to help. Thank you for the report
[05:02] <Corey> pangolin: Helo.
[05:02] <pangolin> oh hey Corey :)
[05:02] <pangolin> thanks for taking a look
[05:02] <BetaBrain> ok this not much good
[05:03] <BetaBrain> this user  repeat the spamm
[05:03] <BetaBrain> now
[05:03] <pangolin> they appear to have stopped.
[05:04] <Corey> Indeed.
[05:05] <BetaBrain> thnk
[05:08] <BetaBrain> this is the log http://paste.ubuntu.com/870988/
[05:09] <BetaBrain> since he joined
[05:10] <BetaBrain> this is a lamer -kfcmuncher2012/#ubuntu-it-chat- hi AlexZion
[05:10] <BetaBrain> * FloodBotIt2 ha impostato un ban su *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.42.99.26
[05:11] <BetaBrain> the same person
[05:12] <BetaBrain> I think he's stolen identity
[05:13] <pangolin> they are gone now
[05:14] <Corey> BetaBrain: It's handled now.  Thanks for bringing it to our attention. :-)
[05:15] <BetaBrain> for nothing is a pleasure
[05:16] <BetaBrain> I'm awake at night, and watch the channel
[05:21] <BetaBrain> bye all see you
[05:38] <bazhang> abound is confused about what is or is not supported in #ubuntu
[05:39] <Jordan_U> Clearly.
[05:42] <Jordan_U> It is a bit odd that "Ubuntu" can either mean the entire distribution, or the main GNOME based variant. Not sure how best to distinguish between them in conversation.
[05:43] <bazhang> he's done this before, telling users they cannot ask about xubuntu/lubuntu/etc in #ubuntu
[05:43] <Jordan_U> Has it been explained to him that we do have a clear policy on this?
[05:44] <bazhang> surely
[05:44] <Jordan_U> Odd. I'm also not sure why they didn't join here.
[05:46] <bazhang> now he's joining #kubuntu to somehow validate his point
[05:48] <Jordan_U> My guess is that it was to check the channel topic.
[05:56] <bazhang> aBound, yes hello
[05:57] <bazhang> thanks for joining
[05:57] <aBound> Welcome.
[05:57] <bazhang> just to be 100% clear aBound , kubuntu lubuntu xubuntu ie all official derivatives are perfectly on topic in #ubuntu
[05:58] <aBound> bazhang, I understand Ubuntu and are it's derivatives are essentially the same but the mechanics of KDE and Unity are two entirely different GUIs at best.
[05:59] <aBound> This community wiki for ubuntu references specific derivatives for using specific channels: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chat
[06:00] <bazhang> aBound, if you are not familiar with the differences, different apps, there is no need for you to try to support them, but telling users they cannot ask about them in #ubuntu is not ok
[06:01] <aBound> bazhang, Yes I can see there are clearly differences but I'm just going by what the topic implies. By default the topic should have some form of identification to those using entirely different derivatives otherwise people should reference channels for other derivatives.
[06:02] <aBound> Otherwise why have various channels for different support.
[06:02] <Flannel> flavors, not derivative.
[06:03] <aBound> Why should #kubuntu, #edbuntu and various other derivatives even exist if people can just hop in the #ubuntu channel for help?
[06:03] <bazhang> whoops flavors
[06:03] <aBound> Flannel, bazhang implied derivatives so I went by that aspect. :P
[06:03] <Flannel> No worries, just nitpicking.  Mint is a derivative, etc.
[06:05] <aBound> Last time somebody else came in with channel asking for help on Backtrack yet it's based on Ubuntu and Kubuntu is based on Ubuntu yet uses an entirely different GUI.
[06:05] <aBound> came in the #ubuntu channel**
[06:05] <aBound> It's like why should we deny anybody using Backtrack then? Seeing as it's based on Ubuntu.
[06:05] <aBound> Backtrack also uses the KDE GUI.
[06:06] <aBound> All I can see is a disagreement between me and various Ops.
[06:09] <Jordan_U> aBound: Backtrack uses a different, and unsupported, set of repositories. What is supported in #ubuntu is anything in the default repositories.
[06:10] <aBound> Jordan_U, So what if they use different repositories that still doesn't change the fact that it's based on Ubuntu just as much as Kubuntu is.
[06:10] <aBound> But instead uses an entirely different GUI.
[06:10] <aBound> It's essentially the same.
[06:11] <aBound> Linux Mint uses ubuntu's repositories and yet people head to the Linux Mint channel what's your argument?
[06:11] <Jordan_U> aBound: The Ubuntu repositories are the same for all flavors of Ubuntu. I think a large part of the misunderstanding is that "Ubuntu" can refer either to the distribution as a whole, which includes all of the flavors and any software in Ubuntu's repositories, or "Ubuntu" can sometimes mean the default GNOME based desktop that you get when using the most popular flavor's installer.
[06:12] <Jordan_U> aBound: Linux Mint has it's own repositories with modified (and added) packages, which we do not support.
[06:12] <elky> aBound, we cannot be held responsible for the packaging or install scripts or defaults of derivatives. we support what canonical accepts into its repositories only
[06:13] <elky> we also set the rules for our channels, and as thus, it's our prerogative to decide what is and is not ontopic.
[06:13] <aBound> The same year, in an effort to increase the compatibility between the two systems, Linux Mint decided to abandon its code-base and changed the way it built its releases. Starting with version 6 "Felicia" each release was now completely based on the latest Ubuntu release
[06:14] <aBound> ^^ repositories
[06:14] <elky> it is still not identical to ubuntu.
[06:14] <elky> if the repositories were unchanged, they wouldn't use different ones.
[06:16] <aBound> It still doesn't change the aspect of how kubuntu is supported in a ubuntu channel. As I said before why should a kubuntu channel even exist if support can be gathered in a ubuntu channel or xubuntu channel.
[06:17] <Flannel> aBound: kubuntu and Ubuntu have identical repositories.  Mint uses modified repositories, we have no control over how they modified their repositories, so we cannot support Mint.
[06:18] <Jordan_U> aBound: Because there are more likely to be people who know KDE apps, and KUbuntu's defaults, in #kubuntu than in #ubuntu. It's a matter of practicality.
[06:19] <Flannel> (This is also why we send packaging questions to -packaging, bugs to -bugs, etc)
[06:20] <Flannel> Not because they're "offtopic" for #ubuntu per se, but because there's better channes where people will actually get help.
[06:20] <aBound> Jordan_U, That might be so but it should be specifically stated in the #ubuntu channel's topic to inform those people.
[06:21] <Jordan_U> aBound: And the lines are often blurred. Someone might use K3B with GNOME, or Brasero with KDE. Other users may use ratpoison as a WM.
[06:23] <Jordan_U> aBound: There is only so much room in the channel topic. We may decide to add notes about #kubuntu, #xubuntu, #lubuntu, #ubuntu-server, etc but that is a separate issue. Right now, can we resolve that these things *are* supported officially in #ubuntu first?
[06:23] <aBound> Jordan_U, Indeed but there's also the aspect of referencing people to a another channel for support.
[06:24] <Flannel> aBound: Yes, and they'd be referred when it becomes apparent they should be.
[06:24] <Flannel> Most people don't read the topic anyway.
[06:24] <Jordan_U> aBound: Great, before we continue can you confirm that you will no longer tell people that KDE and other things are not supported in #ubuntu?
[06:25] <aBound> Some people use the bot in ubuntu to reference people to the topic. If they don't read the topic that's the person's problem obviously.
[06:26] <aBound> Jordan_U, I understand what you're saying as it being supported in the #ubuntu channel and the whole thing about people being more knowledgeable in that sense but I still disagree that it should be supported in their with another channel exist for that particular distribution.
[06:28] <Jordan_U> aBound: I'm sorry for pushing this but I'd really like to be sure it's resolved before we go on with more discussion. Do you agree not to tell users in #ubuntu that software like KDE, which is in the default repositories, is not supported in #ubuntu?
[06:29] <aBound> Jordan_U, I disagree but more or less I won't join #ubuntu anymore. As I said before the topic should remain specifically for Ubuntu and only ubuntu.
[06:30] <aBound> Jordan_U, But we're all done here argument is closed.
[06:33] <aBound> Have a good one ya'll. :)
[06:37] <Flannel> @mark aBound Seems he's agreed to disagree re: #ubuntu.
[06:37] <Jordan_U> Flannel: Thanks :)
[06:43] <Tm_T> interesting...
[08:32]  * pangolin slaps nixternal's client into submission
[08:33] <Unit193> Good job, you slapped it right off.
[08:34] <Silverlion> i feel a slight violence in this chan here ^^ what is wrong?
[08:35] <Flannel> Silverlion: nixternal is pouting
[08:36] <Myrtti> next one and I'll bf it to fix
[08:36] <Silverlion> what means pouting flannel?
[08:37] <pangolin> schmollend
[08:38] <Silverlion> pangolin thx
[08:38] <Silverlion> AlanBell^^
[08:38] <Silverlion> sorry Alan ... no intention to ping you :( my client sucks atm
[08:41] <Jordan_U> Silverlion: nixternal's client is diconnecting and reconnecting a lot, cluttering the channel. The slapping into submission was a joke. Myrtti is now going to ban forward nixternal to ##fix-your-connection to keep the channel clear while letting nixternal know why they were "banned".
[08:41] <Myrtti> that didn't work like it should have
[08:41] <mrmist> good effort. 6/10
[08:42] <Myrtti> yeah, need to have another look at my aliases
[08:43]  * Myrtti goes to read irssi manual
[08:44] <pangolin> Also, we don't often get to ban fellow ops. This is one of those rare treats :)
[08:45] <Flannel> I still think we should've tried to reason with him first.
[08:45] <pangolin> Flannel: be tried.
[08:45] <elky> Flannel, you'd get further than some conversations that happen in here.
[08:45] <pangolin> be tried???
[08:45] <pangolin> been*
[08:46] <Jordan_U> Flannel: He has a history. Just look how much comes up if you search for "nixternal" in the ban tracker!
[09:27] <popey> 05:42:36 <+Jordan_U> It is a bit odd that "Ubuntu" can either mean the entire distribution, or the main GNOME based variant. Not sure how best to distinguish between them in conversation.
[09:27] <popey> I tend to use the terms "project" and "product" to differentiate
[09:27] <knome> popey, "ubuntu desktop" vs "ubuntu" ?
[09:27] <Tm_T> "unity desktop" vs "gnome desktop" etc
[09:30] <Flannel> Ubuntu the project (or the distro) vs Ubuntu the flavor
[09:30] <Jordan_U> The Ubuntu flavor of Ubuntu?
[09:30] <Jordan_U> :)
[09:31] <Flannel> Jordan_U: yes
[09:31] <Flannel> just like the Kubuntu flavor of Ubuntu.
[09:31] <Flannel> You can install Ubuntu without a GUI, that's still Ubuntu, and then you install ubuntu-desktop, and you now have the Ubuntu flavor.  Or if you feel better this way: You can install Kubuntu, and then install the Ubuntu flavor alongside of that.
[09:32] <Jordan_U> It makes sense, but I'm not sure any of the suggestions alone would clarify things. I think it's always going to require an extra sentence or two of initial explanation.
[09:32] <Flannel> since some people are queasy about referencing server/cli
[09:32] <Flannel> Ubuntu the distro has many flavors, one of which is Ubuntu the flavor (another is Kubuntu)
[09:33] <Flannel> Ubuntu the distro has soylent green, Ubuntu the flavor doesn't.
[09:33] <topyli> i wonder what i'm running. jussi had (of course) installed kubuntu on this machine. i then installed ubuntu-desktop and removed all the kde bits, then proceeded to transform it into a default gnome desktop a la debian, removing the unity bits and upgrading the old gnome 3.2 bits from the gnome-team ppa
[09:35] <Jordan_U> Everyone thinks I can solve their problem tonight I guess :)
[09:36] <Silverlion> Jordan_U i am happy that i am not you ;)
[15:36] <bazhang> fireball had this issue before, mi3 and another nick as well
[15:36] <ikonia> that's why I cut no slack
[15:36] <ikonia> I know
[15:36] <bazhang> ie total of 3
[15:36] <ikonia> many other issues and constantly "i'll do what I want" approach
[15:37] <bazhang> ghosty
[15:37] <ikonia> not seen that one
[15:37] <ikonia> but mi3 and fireball, sure
[15:37] <mneptok> ikonia: do you have any coffee?
[15:37] <mneptok> ikonia: do you have any hot beverages?
[15:37] <ikonia> I've just made a coffee
[15:37] <bazhang> * [ghosty] (~fireball@14.194.210.89): fireball
[15:37] <ikonia> yes,
[15:37] <mneptok> ikonia: do you have any drinks that are good oin the morning?
[15:38] <mneptok> ikonia: do you have any drinks that are dark in color?
[15:38] <ikonia> ooh I see
[15:38] <ikonia> he's welcome back in, I only kicked him
[15:38] <mneptok> (these are 100% *different* questions, BTW) ;)
[16:20] <mneptok> @login
[16:31] <h00k> oh hi. hilights.
[16:48] <bazhang> an y idea what mali is on about in +1
[16:54] <pangolin> no, but zzecool seemed to
[17:12] <bazhang> captain_america is very reminiscent of ghostwolf
[17:12] <bazhang> hard to tell with that host though
[17:25] <bazhang> is pythonsnake just trolling?
[17:39] <Pici> Where now?
[17:41] <bazhang> just via vmware/parallels and only mac os server
[17:42] <Pici> I mean what channel?
[17:42] <bazhang> Pici, in #ubuntu , recommending notepad++
[18:08] <pangolin> I didn't read it as a recommendation for notepad++ but he was being a little less than helpful
[18:39] <ikonia> pangolin: pythonsnake is a troll - hence why he's been banned for it
[18:49] <Myrtti> !dk
[20:02] <h00k> !away > schredder_away
[20:37] <Companion> RAWR!!!
[20:37] <Companion> oCean, <3
[20:37] <oCean> heh, hi
[20:37] <oCean> let me check the tracker, hang on
[20:37]  * Companion nibbles oCean his ear
[20:37] <Companion> found in my log that I accidently /noticed the channel I see ; /
[20:37] <Companion> instead of a user name
[20:38] <oCean> yeah, that probably triggered it
[20:38] <Companion> oCean, now I am definitely sure to wreck up that tab key for good
[20:38] <Companion> still I wonder how its possible to make such error : /
[20:39] <oCean> hehe, ok. I'm about to remove it.. stand by
[20:41] <oCean> Companion: ok, can you try to /join?
[20:41] <Companion> I am already in
[20:41] <Companion> dint got kicked ;')
[20:41] <oCean> okay! All set then
[20:41] <pangolin> Companion: Please take care in the future not to notice the entire channel.
[20:41] <Companion> pangolin, yea accidently auto completed with a #
[20:41] <pangolin> no worries.
[20:41] <Companion> with was pretty stupid :D
[20:42] <Companion> pangolin, I ticked some were a box that completes and adds #
[20:42] <Companion> Thanks oCean and pangolin
[20:42] <pangolin> have a good day
[20:42] <Companion> pangolin, werent you there when that hapend? ;o
[20:42] <Companion> aight I know how late it is :(
[20:42]  * Companion parts