[07:21] <jo-erlend> morning everyone.
[07:22] <jo-erlend> The backlog of this channel is becoming more depressing for each day.
[07:22] <jo-erlend> we need to do something about it.
[19:37] <ajmitch> jo-erlend: you mean the near-complete lack of activity for much of the day?
[19:59] <JanC> ajmitch: the lack of activity is mostly because of the lack of responsiveness...
[20:00] <JanC> for some reason, many people with the knowledge app developers need aren't here...
[20:00] <jalcine> is there like a Ubuntu HIG doc?
[20:00] <JanC> jalcine: currently there isn't a unified doc AFAIK
[20:00] <jalcine> JanC: if not here, then in #u-unity, #u-desktop, #u-devel..
[20:00] <jalcine> I've been itching for it.
[20:01] <jalcine> Building Qt apps for Ubuntu is quite a task..
[20:01] <JanC> jalcine: I would think the reason for this channel is to be one place to ask questions  ☺
[20:01] <JanC> instead of trying to figure out which of the 50 other channels that might be appropriate...
[20:02] <jalcine> true
[20:02] <JanC> i think the GNOME HIG applies to most Ubuntu things, but there is also some additional stuff related to Unity, indicators, lenses, etc.
[20:03] <jalcine> Hmm. Then a tango with the GNOME HIG is up next..
[20:03] <jalcine> JanC: in regards to assistance, I do stay here just to provide that, the most of what I know.
[20:04] <JanC> and I think mhall119 might be working on something more integrated (or at least he might have prodding the right people to write that as a goal)
[20:06] <JanC> jalcine: right, but we don't know evrything, and having unity, ubuntuone, etc. people around & active would help a lot
[20:06] <jalcine> true.
[20:09] <mhall119> JanC: HIG?
[20:09] <JanC> Human Interface Guidelines
[20:09] <mhall119> yeah, but I'm not doing anything along those lines
[20:10] <JanC> basically, tells app developers how to design UI
[20:10] <mhall119> I'm just trying to get all the Unity bits *documented*
[20:10] <JanC> mhall119: I'd say that's part of it  ;)
[20:10] <mhall119> maybe,  it's more of a "what is" though, not a "what should be"
[20:10] <JanC> if anybody wants to integrate in a proper way
[20:11] <mhall119> yes, that's true, dpm and I are working on docs developers will need to integrate with Ubuntu technology
[20:12] <JanC> I'd say a consistent UI is at least as important as API technicalities for that  ;)
[20:14] <jalcine> It's vital.
[20:14] <jalcine> It gives a sense of ... Unity. :P
[20:14] <mhall119> JanC: I'd agree, but that's out of my scope
[20:14] <jalcine> no pun intented.
[20:14] <jalcine> The design team should be on that.
[20:14] <JanC> mhall119: then kick whomever is responsible for that  ;)
[20:15]  * jalcine gives mhall119 +F flag.
[20:15] <mhall119> JanC: I know there is work already underway on that in a couple of areas
[20:15] <jalcine> lol
[20:15] <mhall119> previously we just defaulted to the GNOME HIG, but with Unity we now have to define our own
[20:17] <JanC> oh, and while I am talking about this, tell Canonical people that they should never be allowed to release software that doesn't have a manpage and other documentation  :P
[20:18] <JanC> people on the server team, the installer team, etc. seem to understand this very well (but then again, many of them have roots in Debian, etc.)
[20:22]  * jalcine hides his code.
[20:29] <mhall119> JanC: you know my authority over people in Canonical is about as good as yours right?
[20:30] <ajmitch> mhall119: but you know the secret handshakes :)
[20:30] <JanC> right  :P
[20:30] <mhall119> ajmitch: you're not supposed to tell people about the handshakes
[20:30] <ajmitch> sorry
[20:31] <mhall119> I mean, uh, what handshakes?
[20:31] <ajmitch> TINC, right?
[20:31] <mhall119> UnknownAcronymException: What is TINC?
[20:31] <ajmitch> there is no cabal
[20:32] <mhall119> oh yeah definitely, definitely no cabal
[20:32] <mhall119> the council of elders forbids it
[20:33] <jalcine> lol
[20:33] <jalcine> you guys are awesome.
[20:33] <JanC> enough joking ;) , and you probably know better how to get the documentation message over than I do...
[20:33] <jalcine> must be sahweet working there.
[20:34] <mhall119> JanC: "beg, bribe and steal" has been my method to date
[20:34] <mhall119> courses, 'steal' is hard when there's nothing there, and 'bribe' is hard when you have nothing anybody wants
[20:35] <ajmitch> JanC: sorry, I shall not joke about such things :)
[20:53] <jo-erlend> ajmitch, pretty much empty for weeks, it looks like.
[20:57] <ajmitch> jo-erlend: do you think it's too many people looking for answers & not enough people knowing?
[20:57] <jo-erlend> mhall119, I'm very interested in following the documentation work for Unity stuff. Do you have some place for it?
[20:58]  * ajmitch has mostly seen useful unity documentation on the wiki & on blogs
[20:59] <jo-erlend> it's been a very moving target, you know. But it's very important to have some basic documentation so that we can start making more examples and tutorials.
[21:00] <jalcine> ajmitch: it might be that.
[21:00] <ajmitch> certainly, I think it'll be a bit more of a stable platform from precise onwards
[21:05] <jo-erlend> ajmitch, oh, and it's not really that I'm worried that questions go unanswered. It's more that if people never see anything going on here, they stop coming. They the channel doesn't become more active, so more people stop coming, etc. Activity grows activity.
[21:06] <ajmitch> jo-erlend: right, which can be why it's hard to grow a community as well :)
[21:06] <jalcine> Indeed.y
[21:21] <mhall119> jo-erlend: all I'm doing is asking which wiki docs are still accurate, getting them updated, and then dpm is just doing a copy/paste of them into developer.u.c
[21:28] <jalcine> You know what sucks sometimes? Writing tests.
[21:28] <jalcine> Sometimes it's hard to know _what_ to test.
[21:29] <ajmitch> yes, writing tests can be quite a challenge
[21:30] <jalcine> It's a bit easier with pesky bugs.
[21:33] <jo-erlend> mhall119, right. That's somewhat difficult to follow. And by the way; does Unity API versions correspond to Unity versions?
[21:34] <mhall119> jo-erlend: I believe so, yes
[21:39] <jo-erlend> I wish we could have a bug/issue tracker for development tools. For instance, I have no idea how to add a counter to an indicator menuitem and as far as I can tell, it isn't explained in the API docs.
[21:40] <ajmitch> there's at least a LP project for developer.ubuntu.com, but I think there should be something for the platform overall
[21:57] <mhall119> jo-erlend: you mean for the message indicator?
[21:57] <mhall119> or a launcher?
[21:58] <jo-erlend> mhall119, not launchers. Indicators. Is it special for the message menu?
[21:58] <mhall119> it's the only one that has any kind of "counter" that I know of
[22:02] <jo-erlend> Right. I hadn't really thought about that. :)
[22:03] <ajmitch> you mean the bubble on the right-hand side of the menu item?
[22:03] <jo-erlend> yes
[22:04] <ajmitch> I suspect that it's a fairly custom menu item in the messaging indicator
[22:06]  * ajmitch wonders how that's represented over dbus