[00:16] <ashickur-noor> o/
[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:01]  * ogra_ moos
[16:01] <jodh> o/
[16:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 16:02:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:03]  * stgraber waves
[16:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Thunder and lightning round
[16:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
[16:05] <slangasek> jodh ogra slangasek stgraber cjwatson doko barry ev bdmurray infinity
[16:05] <slangasek> $
[16:05] <jodh> * This week:
[16:05] <jodh>   * [dpkg] bug 927993: Started to investigate, but mvo identified the
[16:05] <jodh>     problem+fix.
[16:05] <jodh>     almost immediately. Thanks mvo!
[16:05] <jodh>   * [boot/upstart] bug 940290: Isolated issue, finished code, and updated
[16:05] <jodh>     tests. Pending code review.
[16:06] <jodh>   * [boot/upstart] bug 936667: Created a basic fix. Pending review. We'll
[16:06] <jodh>     need to consider this scenario carefully should we introduce an
[16:06] <jodh>     initramfs-less boot experience for some for 12.10 though.
[16:06] <jodh>   * [upgrade/do-release-upgrade] bug 883618: Fixed. Problem cause was
[16:06] <jodh>     identified using a generic dpkg-divert(8) script I wrote:
[16:06] <jodh>     http://is.gd/H6iPus
[16:06] <jodh>   * [packaging/eglibc] bug 508083: Fix identified - currently reworking
[16:06] <jodh>     maintainer scripts.
[16:06] <jodh> * TODO:
[16:06] <jodh>   * [packaging/eglibc] bug 508083: Complete work and test very carefully.
[16:06] <jodh>   * [boot/upstart] Early job logging code review and upstream merge.
[16:06] <jodh> ⌂
[16:06] <mvo> jodh: almost immediately is a bit of a overstatement, but I'm really happy that its found and fixed
[16:06] <jodh>  
[16:06] <jodh>  
[16:07] <ogra_> intramfs-less boot experience \o/
[16:07] <ogra_> done:
[16:07] <ogra_> * more weeding out of the rotting ubuntu-arm bugs
[16:07] <ogra_> * fixed a bug in fixrtc that made it set the clock in any case in any direction
[16:07] <ogra_> * merged a bunch of alsa fixes from tobin
[16:07] <ogra_> * merged a bunch of flash-kernel bugfixes
[16:07] <ogra_> * fixed sound on ac100 netbooks, finally works by default now
[16:07] <ogra_> * didnt get much done wrt oem-config this week, will prioritize for next week
[16:07] <ogra_> todo:
[16:07] <ogra_> * oem-config !
[16:07] <ogra_> * stopwatch initrdless boot
[16:07] <ogra_> * start looking at delay caused by fsck on boot
[16:07] <ogra_> * more ubuntu-arm rotten bug cleanup
[16:09] <slangasek> jodh: mvo is also asking for help getting a test case out of bug #930396 that he can reproduce; can you put this to the top of your list?
[16:10] <jodh> slangasek: will do.
[16:10] <slangasek> ta
[16:10] <jodh> slangasek: is that bug number correct?
[16:10] <slangasek> apparently not ;)
[16:11] <slangasek> bug #940396
[16:11] <slangasek> jodh: that one is :)
[16:11] <jodh> slangasek: thanks. I've assigned myself.
[16:11] <slangasek>  * RELEASE MEETING: working on bug #901638; build-time testing confirmed, could use verification from Kubuntu folks that it still actually works
[16:11] <slangasek>  * discussions around Wubi
[16:11] <slangasek>  * looking into fixing upstart's fork-tracking handling
[16:11] <slangasek>  * gconf merge for full multiarch support; now chasing regressions related to upgrade order & triggers (bug #948294)
[16:11] <slangasek>  * merged a package from Debian over the weekend for the Ubuntu Global Jam to fix an RC bug we still had (revelation)
[16:12] <slangasek>  * acpi-support uploaded to work around lightdm not writing to utmp (bug #933626)
[16:12] <slangasek> ¢
[16:12] <slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ is that a suitable tagging for release-meeting stuffs?
[16:12]  * stgraber quickly looks for anything release-meeting worthy before pasting
[16:13] <cjwatson> I figured we'd see what people came up with in this meeting and settle for the best :)
[16:13] <stgraber> Bugs, bugs, bugs...
[16:13] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Tweaked netcfg to follow the expected workflow for wireless, bug 36426
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Fixed resolvconf support in casper, bug 946215
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Worked on converting isc-dhcp to upstart and support IPv4/IPv6 by default, bug 944849
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Started investigating bug 919068 (bridge_ports all not working at boot time)
[16:13] <stgraber> - Installer
[16:13] <stgraber>  - A bunch of ubiquity bugs (bug 942030, bug 944614, bug 942560, bug 926493, bug 830946)
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Tried to reproduce bug 924511 without success, might have been fixed lately
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Fixed a race condition in casper when using persistent storage (bug 940908)
[16:13] <stgraber> - Containers
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Started looking at the new apparmor but it's currently broken, causing bug 947617
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Wrote about how to start a 12.04 system from a VM in a LXC container instead: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/03/04/booting-an-ubuntu-12-04-virtual-machine-in-an-lxc-container/
[16:13] <stgraber> - Other
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Expecting LTSP 5.3.4 upload soonish (bugfix release) including converting to upstart (to actually start at the right time)
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Updated LTTng stack, will blog about it soon
[16:13] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[16:13] <stgraber>  - Look at James' friendly-recovery branch, merge and ask for a FFe
[16:14] <stgraber>  - Get LXC working again with apparmor
[16:14] <stgraber>  - Upload the new isc-dhcp
[16:14] <stgraber>  - Continue working on bugs
[16:14] <stgraber> (DONE)
[16:14] <stgraber> oh, and I'd really appreciate it if an archive admin could process bug 931809
[16:15] <stgraber> I won't blog about lttng until that's done as having both stacks in the archive would just confuse everyone ;)
[16:15] <cjwatson> For release meeting:
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * Sorted out most of the remaining dpkg-maintscript-helper upgrade bugs.
[16:15] <cjwatson>  * Fixed a couple of biosdevname-related problems (bug 948546, bug 948559).
[16:16] <cjwatson>  * Ported grub2 to GCC 4.6, and tried to disable the cursor earlier on boot (bug 861048).
[16:16] <cjwatson> Everything else:
[16:16] <cjwatson>  * Various syncs and merges from Debian (especially ntfs-3g), and a few build failure fixes.
[16:16] <cjwatson>  * Dealt with various grub2 build failures and regressions.
[16:16] <cjwatson>  * Fixed bug 939278 which broke the d-i GTK frontend.
[16:16] <cjwatson>  * Writing parted tests in an attempt to track down bug 856826.
[16:16] <cjwatson>  * Enormous mail catchup.  Still ~200 messages behind in my inbox alone.
[16:16] <cjwatson> ..
[16:16] <ev> Week of Thursday, March 1st, 2012
[16:16] <ev> - At the Strata conference Tuesday through Thursday. 10 hours on a plane
[16:16] <ev>   Friday.
[16:16] <ev> - Crafted this (and a long companion email to James, Robert, and Lucio):
[16:16] <ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/ServerArchitecture
[16:16] <ev> - Call with Robert to discuss the status of the crash database and get his
[16:16] <ev>   feedback on the backend design.
[16:16] <ev> - Work on implementing the missing bits from /ServerArchitecture.
[16:16] <ev> - Chat with Colin and Steve about the future of Wubi.
[16:16] <ev> - Joined the QA sprint for a day at the reqest of Pete and discussed their
[16:16] <ev>   proposed high level test harness.
[16:16] <ev> (done)
[16:17] <bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing and ubiquity bug reports
[16:17] <bdmurray> bug triage of foundations-bugs receiving duplicates
[16:17] <bdmurray> creation of a bug heat chart that compares packages
[16:17] <bdmurray> the heat chart is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html
[16:18]  * doko is back again
[16:18] <bdmurray> reported apport bug 944078 regarding missing information
[16:18] <bdmurray> investigation into aptdaemon bugs 858707 and bug 659438
[16:18] <bdmurray> investigation into team assigned bug 556293 and other apt proxy issues
[16:18] <bdmurray> closed apt-xapian-index bug 631215 (foundations-bugs high heat bug) that seems fixed
[16:18] <bdmurray> closed update-notifier high heat bug 467875 (closed and bug pattern removed)
[16:18] <bdmurray> added procfb to the linux apport package hook
[16:18] <bdmurray> update-manager bug fixes for bug 946539 and bug 940196
[16:18] <bdmurray> participated in global bug jam and worked on evince bugs
[16:18] <bdmurray> done
[16:23] <slangasek> doko: any status to report?
[16:23] <doko>  - GCC 4.6.3 packages, including gcj and gnat.
[16:24] <doko>  - GCC 4.7.0~rc1 packages (ubuntu-toolchain-r/test PPA)
[16:24] <doko>  - icedtea-web update from the 1.2 branch, fixed some issues
[16:24] <doko>    with the packaging.
[16:24] <doko>  - openjdk-6 update, revert an ARM optimization which should
[16:24] <doko>    have landed in a PPA only.
[16:24] <doko>  - trying to the gcc-4.7 branch imported in LP for Linaro
[16:24] <doko>  - address eglibc testing from a PPA with gema (follow-up
[16:24] <doko>    at UDS is likely, not before, no more uploads planned)
[16:24] <doko>  - get ARM patches for dragonegg (LLVM backend for GCC)
[16:24] <doko>    working on ARM.
[16:24] <doko>  - started updates for the final python 2.7.3 and 3.2.3
[16:24] <doko>    releases, but didn't finish today.
[16:24] <doko> todo this week: MIRs
[16:24] <doko> done
[16:24] <slangasek> thanks
 some grub bugfixes, and looking into bugs #911436 and #876626, and fiddling with fpc and ghc.
[16:25] <slangasek> and that should be it for the status round
[16:25] <slangasek> any questions?
[16:26] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:27] <bdmurray> stgraber and I were talking about bug 942539 and removing the version from the icon
[16:27] <bdmurray> we weren't sure if there was a design reason for having it
[16:28] <bdmurray> cjwatson, ev?
[16:28] <stgraber> the change would probably be done in casper to avoid messing with the translations (doing s/RELEASE// in the adduser script)
[16:28] <cjwatson> IIRC it was there so that we could refer to it on CD sleeves, and because we couldn't guarantee people would understand the icon
[16:29] <cjwatson> but couldn't nautilus be fixed to wrap this correctly
[16:29] <cjwatson> ?
[16:29] <cjwatson> oh, wait, you said the version, not the whole text, I misunderstood
[16:29] <bdmurray> right, so having it say just "Install Ubuntu"
[16:29] <cjwatson> it was "Install Ubuntu" at one point actually, so let me see if I can dig through archives
[16:29] <cjwatson> IIRC higher-ups told me to change it
[16:30] <slangasek> in the example it's splitting "12.04" in the middle
[16:30] <slangasek> which seems to be a nautilus bug
[16:30]  * stgraber is happy to re-assign to desktop for a nautilus fix :)
[16:30] <cjwatson> hmm, looks like it was changed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/154506
[16:31] <cjwatson> but I definitely think the wrapping is a nautilus bug
[16:31] <cjwatson> or something in that stack
[16:32] <stgraber> I don't think there's any good reason for that weird wrapping, having nautilus render it as "Install Ubuntu\n12.04 LTS" would be fine
[16:32] <cjwatson> might even be gtk/pango
[16:32] <stgraber> so move the bug to desktop and if they can't get it fixed for 12.04, then drop the version number for final?
[16:33] <jodh> Are we allowed to say "Install Ubuntu Precise"? Seems that it considers the period a sentence end so is wrapping it there.
[16:34] <bdmurray> jodh: I don't think so and that would likely cause some confusion
[16:34] <cjwatson> "Ubuntu Precise" isn't a proper way to refer to the final release
[16:35] <bdmurray> so assign to the desktop team then?
[16:36] <jodh> I wonder if you could "fool" the wrapping code then by using a UTF-8 'middle-dot' ('·' (0x00B7)) rather than a basic ASCII one?
[16:36] <cjwatson> bdmurray: yeah
[16:36] <slangasek> and reassign the bug to nautilus, yes
[16:36] <cjwatson> there might be a way to fix it with pango attributes
[16:36] <slangasek> splitting on a dot without whitespace after it is obviously wrong
[16:36] <bdmurray> okay, then bug 947236 - that won't be done this release will it?
[16:36] <cjwatson> but it likely won't be accessible from a desktop file so it will have to be fixed in the desktop stack anyway
[16:37] <cjwatson> I don't know that I object to doing os-release for P; it's not intrusive
[16:37] <ogra_> pango has a "nowrap" mode iirc
[16:38] <jodh> fwiw the middle-dot trick works ;)
[16:38] <bdmurray> okay, then assign it to the team?
[16:39] <cjwatson> yeah
[16:40] <bdmurray> when I was looking at apt proxy bugs I found bug 24061
[16:40] <bdmurray> its in progress but not assigned
[16:41] <cjwatson> I'm not sure why that's in progress; for updated status you probably need to talk with mvo and/or DonKult
[16:42] <ev> bdmurray: apols for the delay. That was a bug fix for a papercut. I'll try to find it.
[16:42] <bdmurray> ev: colin found it
[16:42] <ev> cool
[16:43] <bdmurray> then slangasek and I were looking at bug 484499 yesterday
[16:43] <bdmurray> Is there anything actionable there?
[16:43] <ogra_> have something like visudo ?
[16:44] <cjwatson> the only thing we could do would be to have a debconf check for validity
[16:44] <ogra_> but thats rather a task for UDS discussion
[16:44] <cjwatson> I strongly suspect that people would continue to file bugs anyway after breaking their configuration files
[16:44] <cjwatson> particularly because there are circumstances in which a debconf prompt won't show up
[16:44] <cjwatson> (noninteractive upgrades)
[16:44] <ogra_> it causes a lot of noise though
[16:44] <cjwatson> it does, but we can't prevent it completely
[16:44] <ogra_> every bit we can cut from that would help
[16:45] <cjwatson> I'm not even convinced we can prevent it mostly
[16:45] <cjwatson> visudo - mm, except that all the forums/blog/etc. advice people are following recommends editing the file directly
[16:46] <slangasek> my initial suggestion to bdmurray had been to close that as non-actionable
[16:46] <cjwatson> and people will get equivalently confused if they're prevented
[16:46] <ogra_> sure, it will have a transition time
[16:46] <slangasek> he countered that we could at least put a warning comment in the file
[16:46]  * doko is leaving now for the Python language summit
[16:46] <ogra_> but people also edit sudo without visudo ... still there is the header in the file
[16:46] <cjwatson> people observably don't read any commentary in grub configuration files
[16:46] <cjwatson> I don't think it's truly actionable, but if we close it, it will just get reopened
[16:46] <cjwatson> or new dups opened
[16:46] <ogra_> s/sudo/sudoers/
[16:47] <slangasek> but in general, I don't think we should consider it in scope for us to prevent users from breaking package upgrades by breaking config files
[16:47] <cjwatson> (also, I don't want to change that file unnecessarily because it leads to conffile merge prompts)
[16:47] <slangasek> bdmurray: should we leave the bug open then, but exclude it somehow with a tag?
[16:47] <bdmurray> slangasek: exclude it from the bug heat graph? sure
[16:48] <cjwatson> I'm not being wilfully obstructive here btw, I've just thought about this in the past and concluded that there isn't really much useful I can do ...
[16:48] <slangasek> bdmurray: and from any other graphs / reports we're using to track bugs of importance
[16:48] <bdmurray> aren't a lot of duplicates of it automatically reported?  we could so something there at least
[16:49] <slangasek> cjwatson: right, users following bad advice they get on the Internet and breaking their /etc/default/grub is a social problem, not a technical one
[16:49] <bdmurray> s/so/do/
[16:49] <cjwatson> if there's some way to automatically guide people through fixing it, that would be good
[16:50] <ogra_> doesnt it need an update-grub run ?
[16:50] <ogra_> after you edited ?
[16:50] <cjwatson> yes
[16:50] <ogra_> so that could have a check
[16:50] <cjwatson> it does
[16:50] <cjwatson> it fails
[16:50] <ogra_> aww, ok
[16:50] <cjwatson> I'm not prepared to let the package install anyway under those circumstances, though
[16:50] <cjwatson> that's just asking for trouble later
[16:50]  * slangasek nods
[16:51] <cjwatson> (the bad advice is often unintentional, BTW - unicode quotes and the like - but it's bad advice nonetheless)
[16:51] <bdmurray> that's all I have
[16:52] <slangasek> cjwatson: realistically, what's the next step with this bug?  If it's just going to sit open until someone gets around to writing "some way to automatically guide people through fixing it", that's the same as doing nothing
[16:54] <slangasek> well, let's take that off-line I think :)
[16:54] <ogra_> how about having it automatically included in /var/backups ... ?
[16:54] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:54] <cjwatson> that's the only plausible next step that I can think of, so I guess if you think that bdmurray or I or somebody should be actioned to fix it ...
[16:54] <ogra_> so you can at least easily roll back
[16:54] <slangasek> anything else people want to talk about today?
[16:56] <slangasek> cjwatson: I think it's going to be a lot of work to produce something (either wiki page or program) that gets people out of the mess in a semi-automated fashion, and I don't think that's a priority right now, no
[16:56] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 16:56:51 2012 UTC.
[16:56] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-16.02.moin.txt
[16:56] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-16.02.html
[16:56] <cjwatson> can this kind of thing be done post-release nowadays, out of curiosity?
[16:56] <slangasek> thanks guys :)
[16:57] <ogra_> thanks slangasek
[16:57] <slangasek> cjwatson: what kind of thing?
[16:57] <cjwatson> bugpatterns combined with a "help me to fix this" wizard
[16:57] <cjwatson> I believe Windows has an equivalent of that
[16:58] <cjwatson> even if half the time you press "help me to fix this" and nothing happens, but ;-)
[17:00] <slangasek> ah, not sure
[17:00] <slangasek> bdmurray?
[17:01] <bdmurray> sure bugpatterns can be done post release - I don't know what form the wizard would take though
[17:03] <balloons> hello everyone.. time for a community qa meetin'
[17:03] <balloons> #startmeeting ubuntuqa
[17:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 17:03:45 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:04] <brendand> hi
[17:04] <balloons> so, this meeting is going to be a quick agenda if that's alright with everyone
[17:04] <balloons> :-)
[17:05] <phillw> sure
[17:05] <balloons> the canonical qa folks are sprinting in london this week
[17:05] <balloons> so, let me grab the agenda. but if you're wanting to add something to the agenda, speak up now
[17:06] <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[17:07] <balloons> Just one from me ACTION: balloons to update QA Team wiki heading
[17:07] <balloons> so, that has been done
[17:08] <balloons> you'll notice the new heart icon with an activities link :-)
[17:08] <phillw> looks good :)
[17:08] <balloons> yes, I had help.. thanks charles
[17:08] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[17:09] <balloons> moving right along..  I trust everyone saw the precise beta1 iso testing report by jibel
[17:10] <balloons> beta1 got released, had some confusion about when it was released.. last minute respins on the iso
[17:10] <balloons> thanks to all who helped test! in addition, I put out a call for manual testing using checkbox
[17:11] <balloons> many thanks to the checkbox team for helping me get thru the last minute kinks and helping me keep my sanity in getting that out
[17:11] <balloons> as of yesterday we had 20 folks who had run thru all the tests
[17:11] <balloons> and several bugs opened.. one of which has already been fixed :-0
[17:12] <balloons> My plans for beta2 include expanding the test coverage, and migrating to checkbox-qt, as well as getting it on the cd, so a ppa is not needed and it's right there in your face when you install the iso :-)
[17:12] <balloons> I'd love to hear feedback from anyone that tested about there experience
[17:13] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[17:13] <balloons> Alrighty, let's get to the good stuff
[17:13] <balloons> phillw, care to give an update for us?
[17:13] <phillw> G3 ppc - alternate, installs with a hack, G3 desktop more problematical, ubiquity bug raised for the kernel being installed into the wrong directory on Intel-Mac, re-writing of theme not yet complete (affects all lubuntu)
[17:14] <phillw> they're getting the hang of using the iso-tracker now :)
[17:15] <balloons> heh.. i'll bet
[17:15] <phillw> the mini-iso install system seems also to be okay.
[17:16] <phillw> that's all from me.
[17:16] <balloons> thanks phillw
[17:17] <balloons> how about kubuntu?
[17:17] <ScottK> Kubuntu Beta 1 went fine.
[17:17] <ScottK> We're uploading KDE 4.8.1 today.
[17:17] <ScottK> We did manage at the 11th hour to get kubuntu-active images.
[17:17] <ScottK> So it's all ~good.
[17:18] <balloons> ScottK, ohh,, cool.. nice to see the kubuntu-active images got rolled out
[17:18] <ScottK> They are still very rough, but we'll have a nice tech preview by release I think.
[17:18] <balloons> yes.. very cool
[17:20] <balloons> alright, that it ScottK ?
[17:20] <ScottK> Yep
[17:20] <balloons> kk.. How's about xubuntu?
[17:20] <balloons> btw, KDE gonna be 5.0 sooner than we think.. crazy to think about ;-)
[17:21] <balloons> no one from xubuntu about?
[17:21] <balloons> how about edubuntu?
[17:22] <balloons> going once, twice.. :-) alrighty, how's about ubuntu studio/
[17:23] <balloons> Ok, let's move to the other topics
[17:23] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
[17:24] <balloons> first of all, thanks phillw for updating the agenda and getting the meetings posted.. I slipped up and didn't get the logs online.. It was a crazy week
[17:25] <balloons> So, I see your agenda item; phillw Request Chair posts the logs up, else delegates.
[17:25] <balloons> anything else to add phillw.. I will make sure to delegate in the future in case I am unable to post
[17:26] <balloons> Alrighty, so the last piece I see is
[17:27] <balloons> Manual TestCase Review Updates
[17:28] <balloons> I will say a big thanks again to roginac who had many merge proposals go into the branch, as well as AlanBell and some others whom I may be forgetting.. and of course, all the folks who contributed manual tests during the rewrite, brendand , etc
[17:29] <balloons> If you review the logs for last week, we had discussions about where the "master" repo of testcases would be.. Not many folks were able to stay and chat for so long, but among those present we agreed upon declaring the checkbox branch as the master list for the short term until we have a replacement, such as case conductor
[17:31] <balloons> this makes it potentially a bit harder to contribute tests, but tests can be contributed by simply sending an email to the mailing list if your not able to use launchpad to create a merge proposal
[17:31] <balloons> That's all I have.. Questions/Comments?
[17:33] <balloons> alright, if no one has anything else, we'll call this a wrap.. Thanks for coming everyone.. Next week we should return to our normal capacity with the other QA team members being back online :-)
[17:33] <balloons> #endmeeting
[17:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 17:33:26 2012 UTC.
[17:33] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-17.03.moin.txt
[17:33] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-17.03.html
[18:01] <bdmurray> time for the bug squad meeting
[18:01] <bdmurray> #startmeeting
[18:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 18:01:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:01] <bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
[18:02] <bdmurray> an action from last week's meeting was
[18:02] <bdmurray> ACTION: put list of dbus no reply bugs into a wiki page and email bugsquad regarding list: bdmurray
[18:02] <bdmurray> I haven't done this yet but will today!
[18:03] <bdmurray> that's it for the previous actions
[18:03] <bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
[18:04] <bdmurray> This week I made some new charts that compare the hottest bugs about packages that a team is subscribed to with each other
[18:04] <bdmurray> For example: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html
[18:04] <bdmurray> bug heat is used to determine the position of each bug on the chart
[18:05] <mfisch> bdmurray: if those bugs get any hotter, you'll need vertical bars to separate the packages
[18:06] <bdmurray> yes, well the goal is to get the hot ones off though
[18:06] <bdmurray> so hopefully vertical bars won't be needed ;-)
[18:07] <mfisch> "if you had to scroll this page it's a sign that you should work on that package"
[18:07] <bdmurray> heh
[18:08] <bdmurray> otherwise beta 1 testing went well and things are looking pretty good
[18:08] <bdmurray> Ursinha: do you have anything?
[18:09] <Ursinha> no sir
[18:09] <bdmurray> jsalisbury: anything from kernel land?
[18:10] <jsalisbury> No major kernel issues with beta1 so far.  KernelOops will stay enabled until near the final release.
[18:11] <bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
[18:12] <bdmurray> Is there anything not being worked on we should be aware of?
[18:14] <bdmurray> #topic Any other business
[18:14] <bdmurray> I believe we have one outstanding bug control application that needs review
[18:15] <bdmurray> if you are a member please take a look at it
[18:17] <bdmurray> weird I don't actually see it on the public archive of the mailing list
[18:18] <bdmurray> anything else?
[18:19] <bdmurray> ah, here it is - https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg03680.html
[18:21] <bdmurray> okay, then - thanks everyone
[18:21] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[18:21] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 18:21:38 2012 UTC.
[18:21] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-18.01.moin.txt
[18:21] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-18.01.html
[20:02] <HalD> \O
[20:04] <gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
[20:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 20:04:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:04] <gilir> hi :)
[20:05] <phillw> hiyas
[20:05] <HalD> hi
[20:05] <stenten> hello
[20:05] <moergaes> Hi
[20:05] <michaelrawson> hi. :)
[20:06] <gilir> as usual, aganda is here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:06] <gilir> if you havea weekly report, but nothing to ssay, please ping me outsite the meeting so I can move forward
[20:07] <Yorvyk> o/
[20:07] <gilir> #topic gilir Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
[20:07] <gilir> The only action item is the bug about gtk theming
[20:08] <gilir> I know rafael work on it, but he is working on the correction of the theme itself for now :)
[20:09] <gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
[20:10] <phillw> hi, apart from eagerly awaiting the theme, progress is being made on the Mac stuff. If I can just a ask people to take a look at the iso tracker page ready for beta 2 release candidate rtesting :)
[20:10] <phillw> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[20:11] <phillw> that's all :)
[20:11] <gilir> thanks phillw :)
[20:12]  * gilir will talk about the theme in the devs report :)
[20:12] <gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
[20:13] <Unit193> Right, was working on something else, but there is a session coming up.
[20:13] <Unit193> Rescheduled for Monday 12th, calendars etc will be sorted out.
[20:14] <gilir> Unit193, what type of session ?
[20:15] <Unit193> OP session, how to deal with people and teh tech side of it.
[20:15] <gilir> ok :)
[20:16] <gilir> Unit193, anything else ?
[20:16] <Unit193> Unless I'm missing something, there's only another IRC team meeting coming up.
[20:17] <gilir> ok thanks Unit193 :)
[20:17] <gilir> unless phillw have something to add, I'll skip comm and support team
[20:17] <moergaes> o/
[20:18] <gilir> yes moergaes ?
[20:18] <phillw> I'm just waiting to hear back from the team re-doing theme fior ubuntu.net
[20:18] <phillw> as to if I am to install a drupal server for them, orr
[20:18] <phillw> or they're going to liase with mario about tansferring the theme over.
[20:19] <moergaes> That was what I looked for...
[20:19] <moergaes> How the project is going.
[20:20] <gilir> phillw, is the theme finished and ready to use ?
[20:21] <phillw> I think they're happy with it. It needs putting to the list for comments I think.
[20:21]  * MrChrisDruif has arrived
[20:22] <gilir> phillw, yes, I think some sort of annoucement is required
[20:22] <gilir> so everyone can comment and / or approve the new theme "officialy"
[20:22] <phillw> I'll get something organised :)
[20:23] <gilir> phillw, no need to be complicated, just a mail with 1 or 2 sentences is enough I think :)
[20:23] <MrChrisDruif> The theme is ready and link is provided on the mailing-list/is implemented in 12.04?
[20:23] <phillw> That's the plan :)
[20:24] <moergaes> If we could get this done in March it would be great.
[20:24]  * phillw goes though logs to find the link
[20:24] <phillw> I'll try and get it done tonight!
[20:24] <gilir> thanks phillw :)
[20:24] <moergaes> I guess in April we will all be busy with the new release.
[20:25] <gilir> moergaes, it sounds good, we just need to check with Mario if it's technicaly possible
[20:25] <moergaes> :-)
[20:25] <gilir> phillw, anything to add for the comm team ?
[20:25] <phillw> no, the fb area seems to be happily going along.
[20:26] <gilir> :)
[20:26] <gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
[20:26] <gilir> 2 main topics from the devs
[20:27] <gilir> 1 : many patches and bug fixes was uploaded to precise this week
[20:28] <gilir> also, it would be appreciate if people can double check if the bugs they reported in previous version of Lubuntu still apply in precise
[20:28] <gilir> cleaning the bug tracker (launchpad) shoudl be one of the top priority of the dev
[20:28] <MrChrisDruif> Is there an easy way to inspect all the bugs someone has reported?
[20:29] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, on the page of the people on launchpad, you have a link for this
[20:30] <gilir> for me : https://bugs.launchpad.net/~gilir/+reportedbugs
[20:30] <MrChrisDruif> Great, thanks
[20:30] <gilir> just change my nickname by yours :)
[20:31] <gilir> any comment about a test on precise on the bug is welcome :)
[20:31] <gilir> 2 : work on the theme is in progress
[20:31] <gilir> I'm working with raffael, adn progress are good
[20:32] <gilir> but you have a be patient a bit more :)
[20:32] <gilir> nothing more for devs report, any questions ?
[20:33] <gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
[20:33] <MrChrisDruif> Yes, much to report
[20:34] <MrChrisDruif> First major one is that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp has all it sub-pages moved and redirected to [help]
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> I'd like to request to send an email to the lubuntu-users mailing-list to check if I've got all the pages (more eyes can spot things one pair can't)
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> With a 5 day period to report mishaps
[20:36] <MrChrisDruif> After that I'd like to redirect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp to [help] as well
[20:36] <MrChrisDruif> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp
[20:37] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, looks like a good plan :)
[20:37] <MrChrisDruif> Secondly I've updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/RemoveOldKernels with more useful commands and even an automated command to remove all unused kernels
[20:38] <MrChrisDruif> #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/RemoveOldKernels
[20:38] <MrChrisDruif> I've put a major warning in there that it removes ALL kernels except the current one
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> And I've also updated https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall with references to the packages pages to let users know what they are getting with the different packages
[20:39] <MrChrisDruif> #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall
[20:39] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, do you test this automatic command on your own system ? :)
[20:40] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; Yes
[20:40] <MrChrisDruif> It worked without a flaw
[20:40] <gilir> ok, with the warning, it should be ok
[20:40] <MrChrisDruif> I could explain how the command worked, but would need some time to rework it
[20:40] <michaelrawson> o/
[20:40] <MrChrisDruif> I got it from some site, webupd8 I believe
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson?
[20:41] <Yorvyk> I don't like the idea of leaving only one kernel
[20:41] <michaelrawson> that applies to all *buntu, surely? Better as a global page?
[20:42] <Yorvyk> I think the warnings need to be stronger with a suggestion that two kernels is safer.
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> Yorvyk; It is properly mentioned on the page that it removes all but the current and should only be used by experienced users that know what they are doing
[20:42] <gilir> Yorvyk, as long as the one you keep is tested, and work fine, I don't see it as a problem
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson; agreed, but currently there isn't a page for that on the wiki
[20:42] <jalcine> Hmm. What happens if a user needs an older kernel in order to install drivers?
[20:42] <jalcine> Or some sort of unprecedented regression issue occurs?
[20:43] <michaelrawson> MrChrisDruif-okay by me.
[20:43] <phillw> MrChrisDruif: we can look to move it to main help-wiki area.
[20:43] <MrChrisDruif> jalcine; again, it's properly mentioned on the page that it should only be used by users knowing what they are doing
[20:44] <MrChrisDruif> And installing older kernels can still be done with synaptic afaik
[20:44] <MrChrisDruif> phillw; that would be nice, but I think it needs some work before it can be moved
[20:44] <jalcine> Alrighty, then I'm for it.
[20:44] <jalcine> Well, I'm talking before loading of said kernel, like at post-Grub.
[20:45] <gilir> thanks MrChrisDruif, anything to add ?
[20:46] <michaelrawson> +1 from me, but I really think someone should at least understand what that code does. Otherwise something could unexpectedly break...
[20:46] <MrChrisDruif> jalcine; if you check that page, it'll reference to a page for people who've even removed ALL kernels with the manual way
[20:46] <MrChrisDruif> This automatic command is safer if you ask me
[20:46] <jalcine> Hmm. okay.
[20:46] <phillw> +1 I wrote that page when someone did that!
[20:47] <Yorvyk> I'm not against it in principal,  people just don't take warnings as seriously as they should.
[20:47] <MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson; If you want, I can reverse engineer the code to prove that it is a solid command
[20:47] <michaelrawson> Not my decision-but it might be a good idea IMO.
[20:47] <Yorvyk> Apt should do this anyway.
[20:47] <michaelrawson> I appreciate that it works-I just ran it, but it's kinda fiddly to debug.
[20:48] <MrChrisDruif> #action MrChrisDruif Reverse engineer the command for automatic old kernel removal
[20:48] <meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif Reverse engineer the command for automatic old kernel removal
[20:48] <MrChrisDruif> Nothing else to add from me  gilir =)
[20:49] <MrChrisDruif> Questions?
[20:49] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, I think Yorvyk is right, an apt command may do it without the need of a sed + dpkg
[20:49] <gilir> any kernel no necessary is marked as obsolet in synatic
[20:50] <michaelrawson> doesn't autoremove do it?
[20:50] <gilir> so it should be possible to remove them with apt
[20:50] <MrChrisDruif> I got the command from webupd8 if I remember correct, if anyone has a command with apt with the same function
[20:50] <phillw> michaelrawson: no, autoremove is not trusted with kernels :)
[20:50] <MrChrisDruif> michaelrawson; linux-image is blocked from autoremove
[20:50] <gilir> michaelrawson, probably, but you need to only autoremove the kernel, not sure it's possible in a 1-line command
[20:50] <michaelrawson> ahah, fair enough. I stand corrected. :)
[20:51] <Yorvyk> Auto remove only works with the header files.
[20:51] <Yorvyk> I have the apt command some where, I'll hunt it down.
[20:52] <gilir> ok, let's search for it after the meeting :)
[20:52] <MrChrisDruif> Appreciated Yorvyk
[20:52] <gilir> #topic Any Other Business
[20:52] <gilir> we need to book the next meetings on the fridge :)
[20:52] <Yorvyk> I'll be looking om Friday when I have time :)
[20:52] <phillw> +1
[20:52] <MrChrisDruif> It's not on there?
[20:53] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, I check before the meeting, they was gone
[20:53] <MrChrisDruif> All?
[20:53] <MrChrisDruif> I see what happened, anyhow
[20:53] <MrChrisDruif> What channel for the double booked ones?
[20:54] <phillw> I think -offtopic is best placed, to keep main support channel free
[20:54] <MrChrisDruif> +1
[20:54] <gilir> phillw, ok let's go for it
[20:55] <gilir> any other topics ?
[20:56] <gilir> ok, let's finish th emeeting
[20:56] <gilir> thanks everyone :)
[20:56] <phillw> As always, thanks for chairing, gilir :)
[20:56] <gilir> #endmeeting
[20:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar  7 20:56:21 2012 UTC.
[20:56] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-20.04.moin.txt
[20:56] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-07-20.04.html
[20:56] <michaelrawson> thanks gilir.
[20:56] <moergaes> thanks, bye
[20:56] <Yorvyk> OK, bye - must dash.
[20:56] <michaelrawson> bye everyone! Have a nice week.