[02:43] <Rcart> broder: o/
[02:46] <Rcart> when do we get this kind of failures? bug 778571
[02:54] <ScottK> Rcart: Given that "daemon: could not create pid file "/var/run/mpd/pid": Permission denied" is in the terminal log on the bug, I'd guess permissions (or existence) issue with the pid file.
[02:57] <lfaraone> ScottK: how familiar are you with duplicity? ISTR seeing you talk about using it.
[02:57] <ScottK> No.  Not me.
[02:57] <lfaraone> ScottK: ah, okay. what do you use for backups, then?
[02:58] <ScottK> rsync and shell.
[02:58] <ScottK> sometimes kbackup.
[02:59] <Rcart> ScottK: So, that bug is due a configuration problem, right? (maybe user field in /etc/mpd.conf)
[02:59] <ScottK> Rcart: No.  Probably not.
[03:04] <Rcart> ScottK: how can I track those bugs when trying to fix them? I've fixed typos and I'd like to change the topic
[03:05] <ScottK> Since /var/run is on a tempfs in Ubuntu (but not Debian) one common source of bugs like this is that the init doesn't ensure /var/run/mpd exists.  It needs to check and create it if it's misisng.
[03:05] <ScottK> I'd check that first.
[03:09] <Rcart> great, that's a good starting point
[03:09] <Rcart> ScottK: I'll take a look. Thanks
[03:10] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[06:19] <vibhav> Is any mentor available here?
[06:26] <vibhav> Can anybody help in finding dependencies of http://git.xfce.org/bindings/xfce4-vala/ ?
[07:35] <vibhav> Is any MOTU available?
[08:06] <dholbach> good morning
[08:07] <valdur55> Morning :)
[08:10] <vibhav> dholbach: Hi
[08:10] <vibhav> dholbach: Could you review my upload at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/indicator-sensors
[08:10] <dholbach> hi vibhav
[08:13] <vibhav> Also, I fixed the errors mentioned in those comments
[08:35] <vibhav> Can anybody help me in packaging a promgram?
[08:36] <tumbleweed> vibhav: there are lots of people here who can help, but you haven't asked a qustion we can answer yet
[08:38] <vibhav> Ok, here it goes
[08:38] <vibhav> I am packaging shc (http://www.datsi.fi.upm.es/~frosal/sources/shc-3.8.7.tgz)
[08:38] <vibhav> And the program doesnt have a 'configure' script
[08:39] <vibhav> And dh_make returns : You should also
[08:39] <vibhav> check that the shc Makefiles install into $DESTDIR and not in /
[08:39] <vibhav> how do I do this?
[08:39] <tumbleweed> you read the Makefile
[08:40] <tumbleweed> this is quite a simple makefile, so it's fairly easy to follow
[08:40] <vibhav> The Makefile INSTALL_PATH = /usr/local
[08:41] <vibhav> It seems then its correct
[08:41] <vibhav> Alrighty!
[08:41] <vibhav> thanks tumbleweed
[08:41] <tumbleweed> right, but the GNU coding standards expect that to be called DESTDIR not INSTALL_PATH
[08:41] <vibhav> should I changei it to DESTDIR?
[08:41] <vibhav> change*
[08:42] <tumbleweed> you could, or you could just pass INSTALL_PATH=debian/shc when you call make install
[08:42] <vibhav> I changed it to DESTDIR
[08:42] <vibhav> Will it do any harm then?
[08:42] <tumbleweed> no
[08:43] <vibhav> thanks then
[08:43] <tumbleweed> there's another issue I see in the Makefile
[08:43] <tumbleweed>     @echo -n '***   ¿Do you want to continue? '; read ANS; case "$$ANS" in y|Y|yes|Yes|YES) ;; *) exit 1;; esac;
[08:43] <tumbleweed> you'll probably want to remove that :)
[08:44] <vibhav> why?
[08:45] <vibhav> oh
[08:45] <vibhav> I see
[08:45]  * ajmitch should really remember to dist-upgrade more often, 1.5GB to download & install
[08:48]  * tumbleweed is in a new flat, on 3G while I wait for a phone line. No dist-upgrades for me for a couple of weeks
[09:02] <ajmitch> that's a bit painful, i suppose you've got a tiny data cap as well?
[09:07] <tumbleweed> yup (well, pay-per-MB. Paid R350 - ~35 EUR for 2GB. I'll see how long it lasts...)
[09:08] <micahg> tumbleweed: I just uploaded a 280MB chromium tarball :)
[09:09] <ajmitch> micahg: am I allowed to hate you now?
[09:09] <ajmitch> I've got a 20GB monthly cap :)
[09:09] <tumbleweed> micahg: I miss ia32-libs
[09:09] <micahg> tumbleweed: not sure why it's still broke
[09:09] <micahg> ajmitch: I think I have a mandatory minimum 20GB usage :)
[09:10] <ajmitch> micahg: yeah, I've found that not all data is tracked, so my average monthly usage is possibly several times that amount :)
[09:10]  * micahg switch Cable providers when his last one instituted BW caps
[09:10]  * ajmitch doesn't have that option in NZ
[09:11] <micahg> tumbleweed: I'm happy to sponsor stuff for you while you're in slow mode
[09:11] <tumbleweed> "uncapped" is a fairly new feature around here, but the quality tends to be far worse
[09:12] <tumbleweed> micahg: I'm mostly alright, I have a colo box I can build on and upload from
[09:13] <ajmitch> FTTH plans are coming out in NZ, one of the larger ISPs just released pricing today
[09:13]  * ajmitch wouldn't mind a 100/50 Mbps connection
[09:14]  * micahg has 25/2 ATM
[09:14]  * ajmitch is on approx 20/1 ADSL2+, generally fast enough
[09:15] <ajmitch> it's just downloading from archive.ubuntu.com on the other side of the world is a bit slow
[09:15] <tumbleweed> no local mirrors?
[09:15] <ajmitch> apart from the mirror on my desktop machine? :)
[09:15] <tumbleweed> :P
[09:15] <ajmitch> NZ mirrors have a habit of getting badly out of date
[09:16] <micahg> ajmitch: university of canterbury shows as up to date
[09:16]  * tumbleweed is in almost continual e-mail conversation with my upstream mirror. They are getting better, but I think I'm the closest they have to automated monitoring
[09:16] <ajmitch> micahg: the mirrors seem to take turns in having update failures
[09:17]  * ajmitch isn't too worried
[09:28] <dholbach> huats, warp10, broder: Bhavani also wants to join the team - I didn't think this would get that much interest :)
[09:29] <warp10> dholbach: it's the coolest team ever!
[09:29]  * micahg is curious which team this is
[09:29] <dholbach> the Developer Advisory Team
[09:29]  * micahg wonders if he should get in on this
[09:30] <dholbach> warp10, now I need to generate similar interest in the Dev News team :)
[09:30] <dholbach> warp10, and a Developer Initiatives/Events (Fix-It Friday, UDW, etc.) team
[09:31] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperAdvisoryTeam has a very brief explanation of what the d-a-t does
[09:31] <warp10> dholbach: uh, Events Team, nice one. You need creative minds there
[09:32] <dholbach> for events like UDW and Fix-It Friday we already have patterns of how we normally do them, but it still involves a bit of work getting everything in place, announcing it and so on
[09:33] <dholbach> for example for next Friday, I'd like a few of us to get together on Thursday to put together a list of bugs which might be good targets for new contributors
[09:33] <dholbach> so that they don't have to go fishing around and not finding anything
[09:33] <dholbach> and it's also nice to be able to say "Friday morning we had 50 bugs, Saturday morning we had 0 of them left" :)
[09:33] <dholbach> we'll get there :)
[09:34] <warp10> dholbach: good idea. Finding easy bugs is probably the hardest and most boring part for new contributors. And the bitesize tag on LP is not that helpful, unfortunately
[09:34] <dholbach> no it isn't
[09:35] <dholbach> but on the rcbugs list or the resolved-upstream list we should be able to find 50 bugs easily if 4-5 of us spend a couple of minutes on it
[09:35] <dholbach> let's do that tomorrow
[09:35] <warp10> dholbach: Yeah
[09:35] <dholbach> also I want to do a public G+ Hangout tomorrow to invite newcomers to ask all their questions
[09:35] <dholbach> maybe that's less daunting than hopping on a "developer irc channel"
[09:36] <ajmitch> rcbugs list is always just possible bugs, half the fun there is seeing which ones don't apply to ubuntu
[09:36] <warp10> dholbach: oh, nice idea. I heard that public hangouts from android developers gathered tens of people and lot of excitement
[09:36] <ajmitch> dholbach: how many people can you have in one of those hangouts anyway?
[09:37] <dholbach> ajmitch, sure - and if they go through the process just to find out we got packages in sync again, then that was a good learning experience already ;-)
[09:37]  * ajmitch would join in but it'll be at some crazy time :)
[09:37] <dholbach> ajmitch, no idea
[09:37] <dholbach> ajmitch, but I could try to do a few of them on Thursday to cater to different timezones
[09:38] <warp10> ajmitch: I joined a ~20 person hangout (but just a couple with video too) without any glitch a few weeks ago.
[09:38] <ajmitch> warp10: ok, I thought it was limited to 10
[09:38] <ajmitch> though you'd often have fewer active people than that at irc sessions
[09:39] <warp10> ajmitch: oh, really? Don't know, it was hosted by Google itself (gmail guys, IIRC), maybe they tweaked the limit :)
[10:40] <vibhav> Is there any GUI program to write man pages?
[10:40] <valdur55> vibhav, use usual text editors, man pages are normal text files
[10:42] <vibhav> valdur55: They have a specific syntax which I find hard to follow
[10:42] <valdur55> vibhav, yes, but you can use other programs man pages ;)
[10:43] <valdur55> and then make notes... and use your notes
[10:43] <vibhav> valdur55: Thanks
[10:44] <valdur55> vibhav, no problem, you need find out how can you help yourshelf. Use free software power!
[10:48] <vibhav> Where is the man page located in the debian folder?
[10:52] <tumbleweed> wherever you want to
[10:53] <vibhav> I mean what do these .ex files do?
[10:53] <vibhav> I usually delete them
[10:55] <tumbleweed> they are examples
[10:59] <vibhav> so what will be the file name of the man page then?
[10:59] <vibhav> manpage.1
[10:59] <vibhav> or manpage.1.ex ?
[10:59] <valdur55> vibhav, simply look on some package source code.
[11:00] <vibhav> valdur55: My internet connection is really slow right now
[11:00] <vibhav> 1 kbps :(
[11:07] <geser> vibhav: manpage.1 (as you probably intend to write a real manpage and not an example)
[11:07] <vibhav> geser: thanks
[11:10] <hrw> dholbach: fix it fridays are nice initiative but for next cycle can we move them to other day?
[11:10] <dholbach> let's discuss it on the mailing list after this cycle :)
[11:10] <hrw> dholbach: sure
[11:10] <dholbach> I'm not bound to any day
[11:11] <dholbach> it came just up as an idea
[11:11] <vibhav> fix it Sundays might be better
[11:11] <vibhav> Since people have more free time on sundays
[11:11] <hrw> dholbach: the reason is that you hack/fix, provide debdiffs and then next day sponsors have suggestions for you.
[11:11] <hrw> vibhav: I do not work during weekend
[11:12] <dholbach> vibhav, some do, some don't :)
[11:12] <hrw> dholbach: when next day == monday it is harder to remind which machine this was done on etc
[11:12] <hrw> dholbach: last friday I used 3 computers at same time for fixes
[11:27] <Adri2000> friday vs. sunday is about whether people contribute as part of their job or on their free time :)
[11:33] <geser> simple solution: Fix-It-Week
[11:33] <vibhav> ^
[11:33] <vibhav> There is no upstream URL for shc. What do I put in control?
[11:34] <vibhav> and copyright?
[11:34] <geser> in copyright: the location where you downloaded the upstream tarball
[11:35] <geser> in control: if the software has no homepage than you can leave out the Homepage: field
[11:57] <vibhav> What does the rules file do?
[11:58] <jalcine> It's like a Makefile for Debian packages.
[11:58] <jalcine> afaik.
[11:58] <jalcine> If you used debuilder and don't have any special needs, you could leave it as is.
[12:17] <vibhav> Alrighty!
[12:17]  * vibhav debuild's
[12:27] <vibhav> Which is the best way to ask for reviewers on this channel?
[12:34] <nigelb> 5/ws 34
[12:34] <nigelb> ugh
[12:35] <vibhav> ?
[12:49] <arand> vibhav: Is it a new package? Shouldn't it go into Debian? Particular since Ubuntu is in FF..?
[13:05] <ScottK> arand: It's a Unity specific package he's after, so via Debian is a little harder than normal.
[13:07] <arand> ScottK: vibhav: Oh, I must've misread, I though you were packaging shc.
[13:07] <ScottK> It might be me too.
[17:35] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[17:42] <jalcine> Hey PaoloRotolo
[17:42] <PaoloRotolo> jalcine, hi!
[18:29] <pabelanger> Is ubuntu-motu the best place to talk about openstack (nova) packaging issue or should I be in another channel?
[18:31] <ScottK> pabelanger: I suspect #ubuntu-server would be better.
[18:31] <pabelanger> ack'd
[19:04] <thibaud-ecarot> hi all
[20:55] <goddard> when i have finished making my changes to a project on launchpad and i have made my last commits do I click the propose for mergeing button?
[20:57] <sladen> goddard: yes
[20:58] <goddard> ok thanks
[20:59] <sladen> goddard: what's the project, is it something that needs sponsoring?
[21:02] <goddard> umm just the ubuntu packaging guide.. I'm new to ubuntu development and i was trying to learn how to package and in the process I found out the packaging guide was broken haha
[21:02] <ScottK> That puts you in a perfect position to fix it.
[21:02] <goddard> https://code.launchpad.net/~kinggoddard/ubuntu-packaging-guide/913934-fix
[21:02] <goddard> exactly
[21:02] <ScottK> Those of us who know what we're doing can't appreciate what's wrong with it.
[21:02] <goddard> it was kqrcode so i changed it to gnu hello
[21:05] <goddard> do you use virtual box to build stuff and test?
[21:12] <jtaylor> pbuilder or something equivalent is often more convinient
[21:14] <Rcart> goddard: take a look at: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/getting-set-up.html#set-up-pbuilder
[21:14] <goddard> i click propose merge and it just shows the little loading gif .... how long does it usually take?
[21:15] <jtaylor> not long, but launchpad often lags
[21:16] <goddard> ahh
[21:16] <goddard> Rcart: thanks
[21:52] <jalcine> Okay, so there's this library from a package (libxdo from xdotool) that causes a build issue when I use C++.
[21:52] <jalcine> I've apt-get source'd it, but what would I do from there to consider getting it patched?
[21:53] <broder> jalcine: you mean the library works if you build c code using it, but not if you use c++?
[21:54] <jalcine> precisely.
[21:58] <broder> that usually means you need to change the headers so that the declarations in the headers are wrapped in extern "C" { /* prototypes go here */ }
[21:58] <broder> http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/mixing-c-and-cpp.html#faq-32.4 shows how you can do it
[21:58] <broder> (you need an #ifdef so those only get included when you're building on C++)
[21:59] <broder> unlike what that FAQ says, i think you usually just put the extern "C" around the prototypes (not, e.g., #includes of other headers)
[21:59] <broder> but i'm not positive
[22:49] <jalcine> broder: the situation I have is a bit different than that.
[22:49] <jalcine> The C header has a function whose parameter's name is 'class'
[22:49] <jalcine> and that causes a compile-time error with C++ code.
[22:50] <broder> hmm, i don't know what the best practice is there
[22:51] <jalcine> The only real way to get around that would be to edit the header, but that'd need a patching of the code. And it's just for one line (it's the only function in the whole library that has that).
[22:52] <jtaylor> you can declare that functions needed yourself
[22:52] <jtaylor> not nice but would work
[22:52] <jtaylor> you should report that to upstream
[22:52] <jtaylor> parameter names are not needed in headers
[22:53] <ajmitch> http://code.google.com/p/semicomplete/issues/detail?id=60 has it already
[22:54] <jalcine> >_< should have google'd it first.
[22:54]  * ajmitch just went to the home page from the debian PTS
[22:55] <ajmitch> looks like a useful tool, I wonder what the unity developers are using for similar automated testing
[22:55] <jtaylor> its quite nice
[22:56] <jtaylor> but very unreliable for non us keyboard layouts
[22:56] <jtaylor> or even configured with more than one layout
[22:56] <ajmitch> which is quite a lot of the world
[22:58] <jalcine> No dice, it keeps expecting a class declaration.
[22:58] <jtaylor> yes you have to skip that header and forward declare the functions you need
[22:59] <jalcine> Thanks, I'll try it.
[22:59] <jtaylor> might be an easy fix to do in the package
[23:00] <jtaylor> unless upstream intentionally does not want c++ to link with it :)
[23:03] <jalcine> That's what I was thinking, lol.
[23:04] <jtaylor> can you define a macro named class in C++?
[23:04] <jtaylor> that might work to if allowed
[23:06] <jalcine> Don't think so, but I'm using C++0x
[23:08] <jtaylor> its c++11 now
[23:08] <jtaylor> oh 4.6 does not accept that yet :(
[23:11] <jalcine> nope :/
[23:11] <jalcine> I'm going to patch it, this is ridiculous..
[23:11] <jalcine> Thanks for the help guys.
[23:25] <Rcart> broder: I've add a apport hook for mpd, and you merged a branch that fixed a typo a few days ago
[23:25] <Rcart> an*
[23:26] <Rcart> I think that it would be better to include this hook and the same revision as the typo, and merge it
[23:29] <jtaylor> jalcine: ftw I have reported the bug to the debian package
[23:31] <broder> Rcart: i've already uploaded the typo fix, so any other changes would be a new revision. i don't think i'll have time to review the change in the next few days, so the best thing to do would be just open a merge proposal against lp:ubuntu/mpd and that will put it in the sponsorship queue
[23:31] <jalcine> Thanks jtaylor! I'm kind of behind a SSL block (tethering), I was going to wait until tomorrow to report such a bug.
[23:31] <broder> Rcart: but i do have one thing that you should think about
[23:32] <Rcart> broder: tell me
[23:32] <broder> which is this: ubuntu has patched debian's package fora while, but we are getting the package from debian, so ideally at some point in the future we could revert to just using their package without any modifications
[23:32] <broder> does the apport hook deliver valuable enough information that it's worth maintaining that diff indefinitely?
[23:32] <broder> (the answer may be yes)
[23:33] <Rcart> Yes, I guess
[23:33] <broder> ok
[23:33] <broder> that's a fine answer
[23:34] <Rcart> the hook includes the user configuration file, so when reporting bugs against mpd we'll get that file (without passwords), but not the system configuration (/etc/mpd.conf)
[23:35] <Rcart> bug 947551
[23:36] <broder> does anybody else know if we take apport hooks in universe packages in general?
[23:36] <Rcart> bdmurray: should the script be included? I mean, is ready to be included?
[23:37] <micahg> broder: sure, why not?
[23:37]  * broder shrugs
[23:38] <micahg> ideally, we wouldn't want to keep it as the only diff with Debian, but many Debian maintainers will include hooks
[23:40] <ajmitch> the problems come when you need to build-depend on dh-apport
[23:42] <broder> sure. in practice, dh_apport and dh_apparmor do little enough that you might as well just do it by hand in many cases
[23:43] <micahg> well, at least apparmor is in Debian, apport isnt' yet
[23:44]  * ajmitch knows there was an RFP for it at least, didn't take it much further than that
[23:44] <ajmitch> since for debian it'd ideally submit to the BTS
[23:45] <micahg> the thing is Debian already has the equivalent of apport for non crash stuff in reportbug
[23:45] <broder> that doesn't seem too hard - the bugtracker stuff in apport is pluggable
[23:45] <ajmitch> broder: right, someone just has to do it :)
[23:46] <ajmitch> it didn't quite bug me enough for me to jump into it & maintain apport in debian
[23:46] <micahg> hehe
[23:46] <broder> it's not clear how much utility there is in practice without ddebs
[23:47] <ajmitch> broder: I'm biased, I mostly want it with python packages that can just get a traceback
[23:47] <broder> ajmitch: heh, fair enough
[23:48]  * ajmitch wonders how ddebs are coming along in debian
[23:48]  * broder was just looking into that
[23:48] <broder> the proposal involves modifying dak, though, so i'm guessing "poorly"
[23:48] <ajmitch> 'here be dragons'
[23:48] <broder> making changes to dak seems to be where every interesting debian workflow change gets stuck
[23:49] <broder> see also the binaryful-uploads-but-ignore-the-binary-and-rebuild-it proposal
[23:49] <ajmitch> yeah, something that sounds simple
[23:49] <ajmitch> it's not like ubuntu never blocks on LP changes though
[23:50] <broder> true. /me grumbles about backports and build-deps
[23:50] <ajmitch> like backports build-depending on each other
[23:51] <broder> oh, eww. the proposal uses build-ids and requires their solution to a hash collision is "switch hashes"
[23:52] <ajmitch> not pretty