[05:56] <cody-somerville> What does this mean?? bzr: ERROR: Start revision not found in left-hand history of end revision.
[09:16] <vila> cody-somerville: presumably from 'bzr log', you asked for a revision range for which the link between the revisions is not trivial, fixed in later bzr releases (I'd say >= 2.5)
[09:17] <cody-somerville> I'm running 2.5b2
[09:17] <vila> right, I'm not fully here, could be b5 or b6 or even 2.5.0
[09:18] <vila> what is from bzr log ?
[09:18] <vila> which revision range did you use
[09:18] <vila> using a larger one can work around the issue, there is a way to escape (can't remember it right now, may be -n0 ?)
[09:20] <vila> which setup are you using to end up with 2.5b2 ? Can't you upgrade ?
[09:22] <vila> cody-somerville: I will be there for only a few minutes :-/
[09:24] <cody-somerville> I'm doing bzr log -r 95.1.16..96
[09:24] <vila> Does -n0 help ?
[09:25] <cody-somerville> vila, no change
[09:26] <vila> can't upgrade ?
[09:26] <vila> I fixed that bug in anger as it was really a stupid limitation but now I can't remember the work around :-(
[09:26] <cody-somerville> I'm using bzr from beta ppa. I'm on maverick.
[09:26] <cody-somerville> err
[09:26] <cody-somerville> natty
[09:27] <vila> grrr
[09:28] <vila> an alternative would be 'bzr qlog'
[09:30] <vila> iirc correctly, the issue is related to mixing simple revnos (96) and dotted revnos (95.1.16)
[09:30] <cody-somerville> interesting
[09:31] <cody-somerville> 'bzr log -r 85.1.1..' produces same error
[09:31] <cody-somerville> -n0 fixes that one though
[09:31] <vila> yup, the invisible revno after '..' is the current one
[09:32] <cody-somerville> ah
[09:32] <cody-somerville> r85.1.1 lives under r92 :/
[09:32] <cody-somerville> err
[09:32] <cody-somerville> r91
[09:33] <vila> qlog (from the qbzr plugin) is the best I can think of
[09:34] <vila> gtg, sorry for all the trouble :-/
[09:35] <cody-somerville> cheers
[09:35] <vila> cody-somerville: that's bug #904744 so fixed in 2.5b5
[09:35] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 904744 in Bazaar "bzr log -r bzr-2.5b3..bzr-2.5b4 fails" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904744
[09:36] <vila> fixed 3 months ago and not available to you, epic fail :-(
[10:56] <mathrick> hi
[10:56] <mathrick> $ bzr branch git://github.com/brutall/brut.apktool.git apktool
[10:56] <mathrick> bzr: ERROR: The repository you are fetching from contains submodules. To continue, upgrade your Bazaar repository to a format that supports nested trees, such as 'development-subtree'.
[10:56] <mathrick> halp?
[10:56] <mathrick> aka, bzr branch doesn't have any option to control the format it will use
[10:57] <mathrick> and bzr pull from that repo to an init'd development-subtree branch fails with   File "bzrlib\branch.pyo", line 180, in open
[10:57] <mathrick> TypeError: open_branch() got an unexpected keyword argument 'possible_transports'
[10:58]  * mathrick pokes jelmer gently
[11:59] <LarstiQ> mathrick: bzr-git and bzr versions out of sync?
[12:00] <mathrick> hmm
[12:00] <LarstiQ> mathrick: you can pass --standalone to branch in order not to use the containing repo
[12:01] <LarstiQ> mathrick: I'd hope that it would then pick a suitable format to store things in
[12:02] <mathrick> well, it's not a repo I was trying to branch to
[12:05] <LarstiQ> gah
[12:06]  * LarstiQ runs into stable vs testing issues installing dulwich
[12:07] <LarstiQ> squeeze-backports to the rescue
[12:10] <LarstiQ> hrmf
[12:11] <LarstiQ> mathrick: so I'm having some trouble reproducing due to other hurdles
[12:12] <mathrick> LarstiQ: yeah, fortunately I don't really need to do a whole lot of git there, so I just installed real git and cloned it that way
[12:12] <LarstiQ> mathrick: but if you could confirm with --standalone to be absolutely certain, then I would argue it is a bug
[12:12] <mathrick> sure
[12:13] <mathrick> yes, same thing with --standalone
[12:19] <LarstiQ> mathrick: do you want to report it, or shall I?
[12:19] <mathrick> I'd appreciate if you did
[12:21] <LarstiQ> sure thing
[12:21] <mathrick> thanks
[12:29] <LarstiQ> mathrick: in the process of gathering some more data, I'll tell you the bug number when I've filed it
[12:29] <mathrick> k
[12:33] <LarstiQ> mathrick: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-git/+bug/951494
[12:34] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 951494 in Bazaar Git Plugin "branching a standalone branch complains that the repository does not support submodules" [Medium,Confirmed]
[12:34] <LarstiQ> mathrick: in terms of code, I think the problem is that the initial branch is made before we discover that submodules are present
[12:35] <LarstiQ> mathrick: I don't know how involved it is to detect that first
[12:35] <mathrick> right
[12:35] <LarstiQ> mathrick: the other option would be for bzr-git to default to a subtree aware format, not sure about that either
[12:35] <LarstiQ> jelmer: ^^
[15:25] <jelmer> hi mathrick, LarstiQ
[15:25] <jelmer> see my comments on the bug report - we don't really want to silently create branches in experimental formats
[16:10] <SinnerNyx> hello, i'm new to bazaar. I have an SFTP server, and I was told that this is all I would need to start using bazaar. I'm on windows and I downloaded the bazaar windows package, which says it comes with tortoisebzr (which i figure to be similar to tortoiseSVN), but I can't find where I can start the program or make a repository?
[16:13] <beuno> SinnerNyx, have you looked at the tutorials?
[16:14] <beuno> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.5/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[16:14] <SinnerNyx> beuno, sorry, I thought those explained the CLI
[16:15] <beuno> SinnerNyx, ah, they do, but I guess it's easy to translate to the GUI
[16:15] <SinnerNyx> beuno, thats good except i'm asking where the GUI is...
[16:15] <SinnerNyx> how would I start the gui for instance?
[16:16] <beuno> ah
[16:16] <beuno> I wouldn't know on Windows, sorry
[16:16] <SinnerNyx> beuno no worries. How is it on your system?
[16:16] <beuno> let me see if I can dig up some docu
[16:16] <beuno> entation
[16:17] <beuno> oh, I've been using the CLI for too long  :)
[16:17] <SinnerNyx> lol
[16:17] <SinnerNyx> fair enough. To be honest I'm about to make a repository for my team of 3, and the other 2 aren't the most technical
[16:17] <SinnerNyx> so I'm avoiding CLIs as much as possible
[16:18] <beuno> SinnerNyx, for setting things up, you can use the CLI
[16:18] <beuno> and then to interact, use the GUI
[16:19] <SinnerNyx> that's fine, but I need to figure out the GUI first. I want to see if it's appropriate and usable by my team
[16:19] <beuno> SinnerNyx, there's also this: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/
[16:19] <beuno> seems to have a nice tutorial: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/explorer/en/tutorials/foss-contribute.html
[16:20] <SinnerNyx> sweet, this looks good actually
[16:20] <SinnerNyx> thanks alot beuno
[16:20] <beuno> np
[16:26] <SinnerNyx> ok so now I'm trying to init a repo. I've done it and it says: http://pastebin.com/7LjLymFy
[16:26] <SinnerNyx> how do I now make this available on my SFTP server?
[16:32] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: you want to create a branch, rather than a repo (which is just a working environment)
[16:32] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: once you create a branch, push it to somewhere on your sftp server, "bzr push sftp://yourserver/some/location/branch"
[16:33] <SinnerNyx> Ok, I am clearly outclassed here, I'll need to read more about repos
[16:36] <SinnerNyx> jelmer, so I'd make a repo on the server?
[16:43] <SinnerNyx> jelmer, I'm not understanding, from what I'm reading I want to make a repo as a 'trunk' and then upload that to the server
[16:43] <SinnerNyx> or else make a trunk on the server and update it with my source
[16:49] <mathrick> SinnerNyx: offtopic question: brony?
[16:49] <SinnerNyx> mathrick: lol, no idea what or who that is
[16:49] <mathrick> that means no then :)
[16:49] <SinnerNyx> i figured as much :p
[16:50] <SinnerNyx> sorry for the newb questions, but i've never really had to set up a repository on my own before
[16:50] <mathrick> SinnerNyx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLP:_FiM#Internet_following . I highly recommend watching it, but as I said, it's terribly offtopic. It was just that your nickname suggested you might be that.
[16:51] <SinnerNyx> LOL, what the...
[16:51] <mathrick> jelmer: obviously that's not what I had in mind, but the problem is that it tells you to create a branch in a format with subtree support, and that's not at all possible using the current UI, as far as I can tell
[16:52] <mathrick> jelmer: I'll check what got out of date here and try the init + pull route, and if it works, then it would probably be prudent to suggest that in the error message
[16:53] <mathrick> AFAIK, development-subtree is not the only format to support nested trees
[16:54] <SinnerNyx> mathrick, over my head
[16:54] <mathrick> SinnerNyx: there's a fanfic called "past sins" where the main character is called Nyx. That's why I thought you might be a brony. But even if you aren't, it's still not too late. Just watch MLP: FiM, it's more than awesome :)
[16:55] <mathrick> *"Past Sins" even, to use the title capitalisation
[16:56] <SinnerNyx> lol, thanks mathrick
[16:56] <SinnerNyx> hilarious, thanks mathrick. i'll stick to trigun
[17:02] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: sorry, was away for a bit
[17:02] <SinnerNyx> no worries, had an interesting conversation about "My Little Pony" :P
[17:02] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: you want to make a branch as a trunk ("bzr init foo"), not a repository (which is merely a central location where version control data is stored)
[17:03] <jelmer> hah, I was wondering what MLP was the TLA for..
[17:03] <SinnerNyx> lol
[17:04] <jelmer> mathrick:  you can create a branch with subtree support using 'bzr init --development-subtree'
[17:04] <SinnerNyx> so jelmer, I did an init, and it worked I think. but now how do I get it up to my sftp server? I can't get it to connect. bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host orcaweb.zapto.org:4489; Error reading SSH protocol banner
[17:04] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke: oh, that's odd - does 'sftp -p 4489 orcaweb.zapto.org' work?
[17:05] <jelmer> argh
[17:05] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: oh, that's odd - does 'sftp -p 4489 orcaweb.zapto.org' work?
[17:05] <jelmer> Odd_Bloke: sorry!
[17:05] <SinnerNyx> jelmer: first which port should i use? explicit ssl or implicit?
[17:05] <mathrick> jelmer: yes, that's what I did, although it failed with some errors suggesting bzr-git being out of sync with bzr. However, that's 1) not possible from the `bzr branch` UI 2) not at all obvious from the error message, especially for someone who is trying to just clone a repo without necessarily being intimately familiar with bzr
[17:06] <mathrick> jelmer: I assume that what you have in mind is init manually, then pull, right?
[17:06] <jelmer> mathrick: yes
[17:06] <SinnerNyx> jelmer, I'm on windows. no sftp command
[17:06] <mathrick> then I think the error message should say so
[17:06] <SinnerNyx> winscp can connect fine if that makes any difference
[17:06] <jelmer> mathrick: I wonder actually, if we perhaps just shouldn't have that message say "sorry, repositories with submodules aren't supported yet" rather than hinting people to use experimental formats
[17:07] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: ah, yeah - that's what I was wondering
[17:07] <mathrick> jelmer: but there are more subtree formats than just development, no?
[17:07] <jelmer> mathrick: no, there's only development subtree formats at the moment
[17:08] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: and you're using using sftp in winscp, rather than plain ssh (with e.g. scp) ?
[17:08] <SinnerNyx> o snap. i see the problem I guess. I'm using FTP with explicit SSL and implicit SSL ports. so Should I just try to connect with ftp://orcaweb.zapto.org?
[17:09] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: ah, yes - ssl with ftp is a different thing than SFTP (which is a protocol tunneled over SSH)
[17:09] <SinnerNyx> oops, sorry jelmer
[17:09] <mathrick> jelmer: oh, I know I've used subtrees way before 2a was introduced with the then-development format. What happened to all that?
[17:10] <mathrick> jelmer: also, what about the 'git' format?
[17:10] <jelmer> mathrick: subtrees have never been in any stable formats as far as I know
[17:11] <mathrick> ah
[17:11] <SinnerNyx> jelmer: I tried the explicit port and it gave me: 530 Have to use explicit SSL/TLS before logging on. So I'm trying the implicit port but it's taking a long time...
[17:11] <jelmer> mathrick: the git format is the format used by git (which does support submodules to some degree, but doesn't support other things like revision ids, file ids or revision properties)
[17:12] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: no worries; I don't think bzr supports FTP over SSL though
[17:12] <SinnerNyx> :(
[17:12] <SinnerNyx> so an sftp server is an ssh server that tunnels to a regular ftp server or that has an ftp server on it?
[17:13] <SinnerNyx> ?
[17:13] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: it's not really ftp - just "a" protocol for transferring files that's part of SSH
[17:13] <jelmer> the name is a bit confusing
[17:13] <mathrick> jelmer: and the git format is a real git tree (ie. would support submodules) or just something that's "git" from bzr's perspective?
[17:14] <mathrick> SinnerNyx: and for extra points, you can actually run SFTP over things that aren't SSH at all, though it's not a very popular option
[17:14] <SinnerNyx> http://pastebin.com/8FypuyAp
[17:15] <SinnerNyx> bug report?
[17:15] <SinnerNyx> didnt see that coming
[17:16] <SinnerNyx> jelmer so what kind of secure quick server can i put up that will let me host a bzr repo?
[17:16] <SinnerNyx> or branch...
[17:16] <SinnerNyx> or whatever
[17:17] <mathrick> jelmer: oh wait, I missed your reply, sorry
[17:17] <jelmer> mathrick: it's a real git tree, but while it supports submodules it lacks support for some other things
[17:17] <mathrick> right
[17:17] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: A SSH server should work
[17:17] <mathrick> it's a pity the nested trees have been in the work for such a long time. It's a very useful feature
[17:18] <jelmer> mathrick: there has been some progress on it recently, we have a roadmap (that I still need to put into bzr.dev)
[17:18] <mathrick> any chances of it landing in 2.5, or is it clearly a 2.6(+?) thing?
[17:19] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: a bug report would be nice (though mostly we just shouldn't print a traceback in this case but a simple error message)
[17:19] <jelmer> mathrick: it definitely won't be in 2.5, as 2.5.0 is already out
[17:19] <jelmer> mathrick: I think 2.6, yes
[17:19] <mathrick> oh, I haven't been paying attention :)
[17:19] <mathrick> cool then
[17:19] <SinnerNyx> jelmer was that directed to me?
[17:20] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: yes, the bit about the bug report (from your pastebin)
[17:20] <SinnerNyx> kk
[17:21] <mathrick> jelmer: also sometimes I feel like all I've seen in bzr was bugs (I certainly have uncovered more bugs than I'd like) and not working code, but that's probably because I've started using bzr way back. And anyway the impression always disappears when I try to use other VCS, where the bugs are designed in :)
[17:22] <mathrick> *cough*git*cough*
[17:29] <SinnerNyx> jelmer i'm confused
[17:30] <SinnerNyx> filezilla claims to be able to handle sftp...
[17:30] <SinnerNyx> so is that the wrong 'sftp'?
[17:40] <mathrick> jelmer: commented on the bug
[17:46] <jelmer> mathrick: :)
[17:46] <jelmer> mathrick: thanks
[17:46] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: is filezilla your server?
[17:46] <SinnerNyx> jelmer indeed
[17:47] <jelmer> SinnerNyx: it probably won't be listening on the same port as ftp though
[17:47] <SinnerNyx> I have two ports set up. the first is explicit SSL/TLS. The other is implicit SSL/TLS
[17:47] <SinnerNyx> that's all I know.
[17:50] <mathrick> SinnerNyx: sftp generally uses port 22, ie. the ssh port
[18:08] <mathrick> jelmer: does that kind of message sound sensible to you?
[18:17] <jelmer> mathrick: That message is more correct for your case, but the original was more appropriate for other situations (e.g. when you have a clone of a git branch and a pull operation would pull in submodules that have recently been introduced upstream)
[18:18] <mathrick> hmm
[18:18] <mathrick> well, it'd still work in that case
[18:18] <mathrick> ahh, I see what you mean
[18:18] <jelmer> mathrick: I think at this point it might be better to just say "sorry, submodules don't work" instead of suggesting to users that they somewhat do only to find out that stuff breaks later
[18:19] <mathrick> fair enough
[18:20] <jelmer> admittedly the original message is pretty bad because it just tells users to upgrade, rather than making a note about the consequences of using development-* formats
[18:20] <jelmer> mathrick: did it work ok for your git repo?
[18:22] <mathrick> ah, I didn't have the time to fix it yet
[18:22] <mathrick> will report back when I do