[13:21] <antono> hi all
[13:21] <antono> charm for statusnet is broken somehow
[13:21] <antono> anyone managed to use it succesfully?
[13:22] <antono> first i belive it's not idemponent... koz it fails on juju resolved --retry statusnet/X trying remove index.html that already was deleted
[13:23] <antono> i think some automatical idemponency check for charms should be performed. otherwise charm store will be full of half-baked half-working charms.
[13:24] <antono> and one question: can i use something other than m1.small on amazon?
[13:30] <antono> oh. there is a bug reported against statusnet charm LP#914851
[13:30] <_mup_> Bug #914851: Fails to configure when title has a space in it <statusnet (Juju Charms Collection):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/914851 >
[13:53] <antono> is it possible to install 2 services on 1 machine with juju?
[13:54] <antono> each juju deploy runs new EC2 instance. it does not look smart
[14:08] <_mup_> Bug #952262 was filed: Juju should use XDG directory layout <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952262 >
[14:26] <antono> i found hwo to run other than m1.small! "default-instance-type" in config
[14:58] <SpamapS> antono: actually I think I found that it had some idempotency problems a while back yeah
[14:58] <SpamapS> antono: we do an automated install test right now
[14:58] <antono> SpamapS: cool!
[14:58] <SpamapS> antono: http://charmtests.markmims.com/
[14:58] <antono> i going to create generic rails charm
[14:59] <SpamapS> antono: and a lot were broken by a recent change to config.yaml handling IIRC
[14:59] <SpamapS> antono: there's already a generic rails charm
[14:59] <antono> oh, for real? :)
[14:59] <antono> havent find it yet :)
[15:00] <antono> can i clone all charms in one place with one command?
[15:00] <SpamapS> antono: try 'charm search rails'
[15:00] <antono> i came from git background and not sure how to deal with submodules in bzr
[15:00] <SpamapS> antono: 'charm getall /path/to/charm/root'
[15:01] <antono> wow. cool
[15:01] <SpamapS> oh git.. :-P
[15:01] <SpamapS> antono: note that charm getall is REALLY slow
[15:01] <antono> SpamapS: is it possible to set somehow default repository
[15:01] <antono> ,
[15:02] <antono> SpamapS: oh, bzr
[15:02] <antono> :)
[15:03] <antono> i'd like to get all charms somwhere to ~/.local/share/juju/charms and use it as default repository... unless other location specified
[15:03] <SpamapS> antono: I'd be happy to take a patch to charm-tools to provide a way to get them all branchd from git instead of bzr.
[15:03] <antono> SpamapS: as for me bzr is ok :)
[15:03] <antono> nice to learn something new
[15:04] <SpamapS> antono: a change landed last week that takes the default --repository from $JUJU_REPOSITORYY
[15:04] <SpamapS> bzr is about 5x easier than git to learn
[15:04] <antono> SpamapS: yep. probably yes
[15:04] <SpamapS> It just makes it harder to rewrite history like git, so people get frustrated with it because they're used to that.
[15:05] <antono> SpamapS: i found bzr rebase plugin :)
[15:05] <SpamapS> yeah, which is silly once you realize that the very act of doing 'bzr merge' is just like rebase, except it does not discard history.
[15:06] <antono> SpamapS: does bzr merge put my commits on top of target branch?
[15:07] <SpamapS> antono: if you have branch A, and branch B, and you mege from B->A, then A will get one commit with all the missing changes from B.
[15:07] <antono> SpamapS: and collocated branches is something really useful. i know they are here with bzr 2.5
[15:08] <SpamapS> antono: there's a blugin for that I think now called cobzr
[15:08] <SpamapS> written, oddly enough, by the original architect of juju ;)
[15:08] <SpamapS> antono: http://labix.org/cobzr
[15:08] <antono> SpamapS: not sure why but i'd like to have separate commits after merge
[15:09] <antono> anyway. juju is way to go
[15:09] <antono> i like it
[15:09] <antono> but... some questions to you :)
[15:09] <SpamapS> antono: they're still there.. just wrapped up in a single commit.
[15:10] <antono> does it allow to run some unit on specified machine?
[15:10] <antono> i would like to run 3 app servers and 1 db on single amazon node
[15:10] <SpamapS> antono: two answers for that
[15:10] <SpamapS> antono: either a) use the local provider on that one machine (but this means you cannot scale beyond that one machine)
[15:11] <SpamapS> antono: or b) lets go on an adventure to see if the recent 'constraints' branch allows specifying machine ids..
[15:11] <SpamapS> antono: there's also c) use my new experimental not yet landed 'charm splice' command to splice those 4 things into one charm.
[15:12] <antono> SpamapS: thanks for your answers
[15:12]  * antono afk for 1 hour
[15:18] <marcoceppi> d) all of the above?
[15:30] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: tell that to George Zip!
[15:48] <antono> hmm. why bzr log does not pipe output to pager by default on ubuntu?
[15:49] <SpamapS> antono: because |less is easy?
[15:50] <antono> oh noes. extra typing is totally wrong. same as expricit --repository requirement
[15:54] <SpamapS> antono: --repository is all but gone
[15:55] <antono> SpamapS: nice :)
[15:55] <antono> same |less should go by default
[15:55] <SpamapS> antono: antono |less is optional though.. if you want to search, | less.. if you just want to limit.. -l #
[15:55] <SpamapS> antono: its a different philosophy, but I personally hate things that push me into the pager like that. :-P
[15:56] <antono> i love ubuntu for sane defaults... and i'ts clear why it's not piped by default in bzr. but on linux it could be default behavior. (i should rant in #bzr probably)
[15:59] <marcoceppi> but if it goes to pager, how will I |grep -ri "stupid committer" to find all the dumb things someone did?
[16:00] <marcoceppi> :)
[16:01] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: it would only go to pager if isatty(stdout)
[16:02] <SpamapS> its a valid, but annoying practice imo
[16:02] <antono> and grep  works ok with bzr-pager plugin...
[16:04] <antono> SpamapS: what do you think about charm get lp:some/charm ?
[16:05] <SpamapS> antono: charm get is a bit of a hack...
[16:06] <SpamapS> antono: its mostly for getting charms from the official repo/dev series.. if you want a specific charm.. bzr branch works. :-P
[16:06] <SpamapS> antono: the whole 'charm get*' set of commands is supposed to go away once the full charm store backend service goes live
[16:06] <antono> aha. i saw broken requests to store.charms...
[16:07] <antono> how can i set default environment?
[16:07] <SpamapS> antono: in environments.yaml, you can set a root element 'default: xxxx'
[16:08] <SpamapS> antono: or JUJU_ENVIRONMENT
[16:08] <SpamapS> antono: sorry, JUJU_ENV
[16:09] <SpamapS> which is apparently undocumented. :(
[16:10] <antono> SpamapS: me researching the code :)
[16:13] <SpamapS> At this point we have 2 JUJU_ environment variables affecting the cli.. and 1 in review.. we should probably make a dedicated environment variables document.
[16:14] <antono> SpamapS: i think it should go to man juju
[16:15] <SpamapS> hahahahahaha
[16:15] <SpamapS> man page
[16:15] <SpamapS> thats rich
[16:15] <SpamapS> antono: I wrote a man page once. The dev team rejected it because it wasn't auto-generated :-/
[16:15] <antono> SpamapS: auto generated from source?
[16:16] <antono> Is there any python solutions for such tasks?
[16:16] <SpamapS> yeah.. they want the man page to be generated from all the argparse --help output
[16:16] <SpamapS> nope
[16:16] <SpamapS> I'd have to write it myself
[16:16] <antono> good idea
[16:16] <antono> :)
[16:16] <SpamapS> sat down to
[16:16] <SpamapS> got disgusted with argparse
[16:17] <SpamapS> antono: btw, was the statusnet problem you saw bug 914851 ? I'm about to fix that (and add a test for it)
[16:17] <_mup_> Bug #914851: Fails to configure when title has a space in it <statusnet (Juju Charms Collection):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/914851 >
[16:18] <antono> SpamapS: yes, it is
[16:18] <antono> Also i belive it doesnt clear /var/www on remove-unit
[16:18] <antono> so next add-unit fails
[16:18] <antono> need to check it
[16:19] <antono> fails due to rm /var/www/index
[16:19] <antono> now. it's obvious that just merging charms will not work
[16:19] <antono> i mean just merge charms to run all on single machine
[16:20] <antono> it should be some good conventions/guidlines for each charm
[16:20] <antono> where should it put it's files
[16:20] <SpamapS> antono: what is "remove-unit" ? ;)
[16:20] <antono> statusnet puts all to /var/www
[16:21] <SpamapS> antono: charms were never meant to be more than 1 per server
[16:21] <antono> SpamapS: i can only say it's bad limitation
[16:22] <SpamapS> antono: the dev team wants to use LXC so the charms are completely namespaced from eachother
[16:23] <antono> SpamapS: yeah. thats good idea. in this case it's ok to have charm per machine
[16:23] <antono> and it's certainly will simplyfy things a lot
[16:23] <SpamapS> antono: unfortunately, thats complicated because LXC also namespaces the network.. so you have to figure out a way to make all the charms reachable from all the other nodes. On EC2 that won't work because the network is tightly controlled.
[16:23] <antono> from charm-writer point of view
[16:24] <SpamapS> antono: t1.micro is pretty cheap... ;)
[16:24] <SpamapS> for testing. And for production.. m1.small's are the only sane thing. :)
[16:25] <antono> i use m1.micro for my blog, mail, jabber, git etc
[16:27] <SpamapS> antono: right, none of those would conflict with the splice method. :)
[16:29] <SpamapS> antono: I actually think deploy and add-unit should take a '--machine' argument.. this is agreed upon as a more generick '--placement' option but its implementation is still pending.
[16:35] <jcastro> oh cool, are you deploying status.net with the charm antono?
[16:39] <_mup_> Bug #952355 was filed: Backward incompatible change: existing env boolean values cause total failure <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952355 >
[16:42] <antono> jcastro: yes, just testing juju following instructions in your post
[16:42] <antono> jcastro: probably i'll make a charm for http://rstat.us/
[16:42] <antono> koz it's better than statusnet
[16:43] <jcastro> ah, cool!
[16:43] <antono> and also support ostatus protocol
[16:43] <jcastro> you can enter it in the charm contest! (See topic)
[16:43] <antono> jcastro: yep, i saw
[16:44] <antono> jcastro: you should also make juju documentation contest
[16:44] <antono> i'd like to record some plain/text screencasts for juju
[16:44] <antono> like this one: http://shelr.tv/records/4f53e3df8841ac0001000001
[16:45] <antono> so copy/paste will work and make things easier for newcomers
[16:45] <SpamapS> antono: rstat.us looks nice. :)
[16:46] <antono> one more thing i going to charm is http://gitlabhq.com/
[16:46] <antono> should i put this to google doc before start?
[16:46] <SpamapS> antono: bugs.launchpad.net/charms
[16:46] <jcastro> I have a bug for gitlab
[16:47] <jcastro> gitlab would be quite awesome.
[16:47] <SpamapS> the google doc is not really authoritative.. its just richer and easier to organize than bugs.launchpad.net
[16:47] <jcastro> SpamapS, I have a mind to just kill the gdoc
[16:47] <SpamapS> columns are good...
[16:47] <antono> what do you think guys about obeying XDG spec for juju data?
[16:47] <SpamapS> antono: I saw that. Interesting idea.
[16:47] <antono> i mean ~/.config/juju ~/.local/share/juju etc
[16:47] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/931835
[16:48] <jcastro> here you go ^
[16:48] <_mup_> Bug #931835: Charm needed: Gitlab <Juju Charms Collection:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/931835 >
[16:48] <antono> jcastro: so i should just assign me and start?
[16:48] <jcastro> sure!
[16:49] <antono> done :)
[16:49] <antono> i mean assigned ;)
[16:49] <jcastro> hey nice
[16:49] <jcastro> so gitlab needs mysql and ruby
[16:49] <jcastro> we have those charmed already
[16:49] <antono> jcastro: sqlite afaik
[16:49] <antono> it has some slite specific sql for now
[16:50] <jcastro> ah ok
[16:50] <jcastro> no worries, just as easy
[16:50] <antono> yep.
[16:50] <antono> just as easy as git clone + bundle install
[16:50] <antono> + some setup for apache/nginx
[16:50] <jcastro> gitolite would be cool I think because we don't have a charm that is "I want my own git repo hotness"
[16:51] <SpamapS> jcastro: ruby isn't really "charmed"
[16:51] <antono> jcastro: why should it be charmed? :)
[16:52] <antono> i think it should be ok with apt-get install -y ruby1.9.1-full in install hook
[16:52] <SpamapS> antono: that bit.. "+ some setup" .. thats where the charm wins :)
[16:52] <antono> at least such things work in other charms
[16:52] <SpamapS> antono: I don't think jcastro meant what we think he meant ;)
[16:53] <SpamapS> antono: indeed, just installing the components you need in the install hook is all that is needed
[16:53] <jcastro> no I did not mean what you thought I meant
[16:53] <jcastro> sorry
[16:53] <antono> i have some chef experience
[16:53] <jcastro> I was just thinking aloud when I saw their requirements and was like "we have that, that, and that."
[16:53] <antono> it would be nice to reuse it in charms
[16:54] <jcastro> you can absolutely do that
[16:54] <jcastro> I am surprised no one has tried that yet
[16:54] <antono> it has a lot of well tested idemponent recipes
[16:55] <antono> chef/pupet recipes is a way to go for charms
[16:55] <antono> like build blocks. tested. they have good collection of recipes
[16:55] <antono> also it may increase portability of charms
[16:55] <antono> koz for now they are only debian/ubuntu
[16:55] <SpamapS> antono: yeah, do that. :)
[16:56] <SpamapS> antono: there has been *zero* interest in porting juju to other platforms.
[16:56] <SpamapS> antono: people ask if its possible, thats it
[16:56] <jcastro> I'd rather see a gitolite charm first though
[16:57] <jcastro> People need a slick self-hosted alternative to github!
[16:57] <antono> jcastro: right. same i do
[16:57] <antono> i considered gitorious
[16:57] <SpamapS> antono: Maybe we're biased, being canonical people, but I think using juju means you don't have to care about which OS you're running.
[16:57] <antono> but its hard to install
[16:57] <antono> so charm would be nice
[16:57] <antono> later i find gitolite
[16:58] <jcastro> the nice thing is you can keep the charm up to date
[16:58] <jcastro> you don't have to worry about if a package will make the ubuntu release or whatever.
[16:58] <antono> yes. and it's much more hard to resolve all dependency hell in ruby land
[16:59] <antono> is there any plans to push usage of augtool  in charms?
[17:00] <antono> charms in esence are very similar to less strict packaging systems like arch guys have
[17:01] <jcastro> never heard of augtool
[17:01] <jcastro> oh, the augeas thing
[17:01] <antono> augeas, yes
[17:01] <antono> almost silver bullet for configuration management
[17:02] <jcastro> I don't see any reason why you wouldn't use it if you want to in a charm
[17:02] <antono> in all this config zoo it provides unified api at least
[17:03] <antono> hey, all! who participates charms contest?
[17:03] <jcastro> there's been 3 or 4 so fat
[17:03] <jcastro> err, so far
[17:04] <SpamapS> antono: I've used augtool .. I converted to creating files with appending though
[17:05] <SpamapS> antono: augeas is a neat idea.. and useful when you have multiple things influencing a config file that is complicated. But ultimately, its far more predictable to simply control the inputs, and generate the config in its entirety
[17:06] <SpamapS> jcastro: are you able to deploy stuff with r467 ?
[17:09] <jcastro> SpamapS, I only use what you give me in distro bro
[17:09] <SpamapS> ahhhh
[17:11] <antono> SpamapS: you are right. when every charm isolated in it's own container than it's easier to just fill config template with some values
[17:11] <antono> but... augeas also have augtool get
[17:12] <antono> wich is useful... not all this sed | grep | cut stuff
[17:12] <antono> and more reliable than shell one liners...
[17:13] <SpamapS> antono: right, but what would you be extracting from config that you don't know as a charm author?
[17:14] <antono> right, totally predictable...
[17:15] <SpamapS> antono: and even if charms need to both influence a config file, they should both collaborate around that, not try to avoid eachother.
[17:17] <james_w> hey peeps
[17:17] <james_w> where do we stand with subordinate charms?
[17:24] <m_3> james_w: still waiting
[17:24] <SpamapS> james_w: landing
[17:24] <SpamapS> I believe its all in review
[17:25] <SpamapS> m_3: did you run into the new brokenheaded way that juju is verifying *ALL* of the charms in a repository?
[17:25] <SpamapS> m_3: I can't deploy anything right now.. because nearly half of the charm sin my repo have a bad boolean
[17:26] <m_3> SpamapS: still on cli from earlier in the week
[17:27] <SpamapS> stay there
[17:27] <SpamapS> I"m going to raise a Critical bug
[17:27] <SpamapS> this is just *wrong*
[17:27] <m_3> I didn't have time to fix all of the charms this weekend...
[17:27] <m_3> task for next week!
[17:28] <m_3> dude, devopsdays has turned our submitted talks into a panel... juju,chef,puppet,crowbar,cloudformation,pallet,etc
[17:28] <m_3> whoohoo! should be entertaining
[17:29] <SpamapS> yeah sounds like fun
[17:30] <m_3> SpamapS: btw, how was your upgrade process for mactel?  it's time to bump the lappy
[17:30] <_mup_> Bug #952397 was filed: Juju is forcing *ALL* charms in a repo to be perfect to be able to deploy *any* <juju:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952397 >
[17:31] <SpamapS> m_3: I upgraded a *long* time ago
[17:31] <jcastro> m_3, man that sounds awesome
[17:31] <SpamapS> m_3: been working great
[17:31] <m_3> did my desktop earlier, but've been waiting on the laptop b/c of the travel
[17:31] <m_3> jcastro: picked up the gauntlet
[17:31] <SpamapS> m_3: its safe, go for it
[17:32] <m_3> I think I've got a great opener... love to run it by you guys this week
[17:32] <jcastro> for sure!
[17:32] <SpamapS> m_3: tho I recommend unity-2d for battery life. :)
[17:32] <SpamapS> anyway, time to go enjoy my Sunday
[17:32] <jcastro> <-- pool for me, cya guys
[17:32] <m_3> enjoy
[17:32] <m_3> ha nice
[17:33] <SpamapS> if you guys run into weird "ServiceConfigValueError" , its bug 952397
[17:33] <_mup_> Bug #952397: Juju is forcing *ALL* charms in a repo to be perfect to be able to deploy *any* <juju:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952397 >
[17:33] <SpamapS> Hopefully we can get that fixed early tomorrow
[17:34] <m_3> yeah, maybe there's a nicer way to handle type-safety too
[21:14] <antono> Not sure what i doing wrong... but
[21:14] <antono>  juju deploy local:oneiric/mysql --repository .
[21:14] <antono> 2012-03-12 00:13:57,830 INFO Searching for charm
[21:14] <antono> Invalid value for cache: False
[21:14] <antono> 2012-03-12 00:13:57,897 ERROR Invalid value for cache: False
[21:14] <antono>  
[21:14] <antono> current repository contains output of charm getall
[21:27] <antono> oh. it seems i was affected by LP#952397
[21:27] <_mup_> Bug #952397: Juju is forcing *ALL* charms in a repo to be perfect to be able to deploy *any* <juju:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952397 >
[21:34] <antono> hmm.. where should i report ami problems? can i use alternative ami?
[21:34] <antono> 2 t1.micro hangs 10 minutes after start. system log shows
[21:34] <antono> [  167.094249] 1 multicall(s) failed: cpu 0