SpamapSnegronjl: you ready for tomorrow?04:31
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antonohi all. testing juju with local provider10:51
antonofor some reason no success. it cannot start all lxc containers for very long time10:52
antonoso basically machine     state: not-started during 10 minutes10:53
antono 10:53
antonoyesterday i got it running somehow... but i was away for a long time10:53
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yolandahi, good afternoon14:31
yolandai'm trying to create an openstack instance from juju, but the instance gives me error14:31
yolandaanyone can guide me on how correctly setup the environments.yaml for openstack? i should be missing something14:31
james_whow's the charm store coming along?15:14
bbcmicrocomputerhi, a quick Q.. when writing Charms, is it by design that Juju executes hooks with a umask of 0077?15:20
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jcastrobbcmicrocomputer, out of curiosity, what are you looking to charm?16:34
jamespagejcastro, I hoping to persuade him to charm hive :-)16:36
jamespagejcastro, are you helping with the charm school today?16:39
jcastrono, that's Clint and Juan16:39
jcastroit's a meatspace one16:39
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro: yeah, I'd like to do a Hive charm16:43
jcastrooh nice16:43
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro: atm, I'm just playing with jamespage's existing Hadoop ones16:44
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro, jamespage: would love to also create a Solr charm, so we could have a search server coupled to a MySQL or PostgreSQL instance16:46
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro, jamespage: be quite cool if you could just have indexing automatically set-up via the relations16:47
_mup_Bug #828367: Charm Needed: SolrCloud <Juju Charms Collection:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/828367 >16:47
jcastroand https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/80825516:48
_mup_Bug #808255: Charm Needed: Solandra <Juju Charms Collection:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/808255 >16:48
jcastrothose would be quite cool to see16:48
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro: ah cool, well would love to have a go at tackling them, schedule permitting16:49
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro: any answer to the previous Q about why juju executes hooks with a umask of 0077?  Is it just to be *safe*?16:50
jcastronot sure16:52
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro: ah ok16:52
jcastroI can however ping bcsaller, fwereade_, hazmat, and niemeyer for you. :)16:53
bbcmicrocomputerjcastro: sure, thanks16:53
fwereade_bbcmicrocomputer, I think that comes from twistd defaults; I don;t know that we made an explicit decision ourselves16:57
fwereade_bbcmicrocomputer, but perhaps someone who joined before me will be able to contradict that16:57
bbcmicrocomputerfwereade_: ok, thanks16:58
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andrewsmedinathere's a way to define a custom image in a deploy?17:13
jcastrolike an AMI?17:14
andrewsmedinajcastro: yes17:16
jcastroyou want default-image-id17:16
fwereade_andrewsmedina, I *think* that you can still change default-image-id in environments.yaml before you deploy; but I recommend you don't come to depend on that because it'll be going away soon17:16
fwereade_andrewsmedina, what's your use case?17:17
andrewsmedinafwereade_: I want in some cases to define a custom ami in a deploy17:18
andrewsmedinajcastro: I want define at a deploy time17:18
fwereade_andrewsmedina, what are the important characteristics of the different ami?17:18
jcastroi've always wanted to do that too17:20
andrewsmedinafwereade_: I want to use juju with golden images17:20
andrewsmedinaThis would be possible with "--contraints"17:23
andrewsmedinajuju deploy local:mysql --constraints 'image-id: ami-0000002d'17:23
fwereade_andrewsmedina, as I recall it was agreed that allowing specific images with constraints was a bad idea17:24
andrewsmedinafwereade_: why?17:24
fwereade_andrewsmedina, in particular it's an end-run around our attempts to match the ubuntu series tothe charm that's being deployed17:24
andrewsmedinafwereade_: but with this juju only works on ubuntu17:27
fwereade_andrewsmedina, but that is clearly a sensible thing to want to do; can I suggest starting a discussion on the lists? I suspect it'll be the best way to get properly considered discussion17:27
fwereade_andrewsmedina, that is a restriction that I think we're... er... somewhere between "resigned to" and "comfortable with" for now17:28
andrewsmedinafwereade_: you can do it17:28
andrewsmedinafwereade_: use golden image is a very common amazon workflow17:30
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fwereade_andrewsmedina, I think there's a general assumption in the codebase that we'll be deploying to ubuntu -- charms, in particular, are intended to be targeted to a particular ubuntu series -- and we'd need to think carefully about how to relax that17:30
andrewsmedinafwereade_: and with this is not need install the same thing every time17:31
andrewsmedinafwereade_: humm17:31
fwereade_andrewsmedina, indeed -- I can definitely see the utility of what you ask for17:31
fwereade_andrewsmedina, but as I say it involves a bit more complexity than one might hope for17:31
andrewsmedinafwereade_: I know17:32
fwereade_andrewsmedina, is it ramp-up time you're mainly worried about?17:37
andrewsmedinafwereade_: yes17:38
fwereade_andrewsmedina, hmm, I'm just thinking that I actually don't know what the usual distribution of time-spent-ramping-up actually is17:39
andrewsmedinafwereade_: in every deploy, juju install juju, zookeeper agent...17:40
andrewsmedinafwereade_: update and upgrade the ubuntu17:41
fwereade_andrewsmedina, quite -- there's a fair amount to be done -- but I'm wondering how to get a decent idea of where we can save the most time in the general case17:43
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: Are you getting such a umask? (/cc jcastro)17:44
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: What's the 0077 reflecting, more precisely?17:45
andrewsmedinafwereade_: I think skipping this installation every time17:45
bbcmicrocomputerniemeyer: I noticed a lot of the configuration files being copied as part of a charm install hook was ending up as private to root, which caused problems when running daemon processes as other users.  So I altered one of the hooks to output the umask to a temporary file and found that when juju called it, it was 0077.17:49
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: That certainly sounds bogus17:50
niemeyerhazmat: Does that ring any bells?17:50
fwereade_bbcmicrocomputer, btw, what version of juju are you using?17:50
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: I can't find anything about such a umask in the code base, FWIW17:51
bbcmicrocomputerniemeyer: 0.5+bzr457-0ubuntu117:51
bbcmicrocomputerniemeyer: me neither :)17:51
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: Ah, found the source17:52
bbcmicrocomputerniemeyer: it's an EC2 deployment and the system umask is def not set to 0077, so have assumed it was juju17:52
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer:        --umask <mask>17:52
niemeyer              The (octal) file creation mask to apply. (default: 0077 for daemons, no change otherwise).17:52
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: From twistd17:52
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: Would you mind to file a bug? We'll certainly fix that17:52
bbcmicrocomputerniemeyer: ah ok, so we def shouldn't be altering charms to switch umasks?17:53
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: No, juju should not execute charms with such a umask17:53
fwereade_niemeyer, I *think* it's already fixed accidentally, because the upstart agents run with --nodaemon17:53
bbcmicrocomputerniemeyer: ok, will file a bug17:53
niemeyerfwereade_: Oh, was that recent?17:53
fwereade_niemeyer, thatstarts at r460 :)17:53
niemeyerhah, ok :-)17:53
m_3bbcmicrocomputer: we usually either use explicit chmods (preferred) or set the umask as needed in hooks17:54
niemeyerbbcmicrocomputer: Thanks for filing the bug. It'll be good to have that tracked no matter what17:54
bbcmicrocomputerm_3: makes sense17:54
m_3bbcmicrocomputer: lots of charm helper fns have a mode arg... ch_template_file <owner> <mode> <source> <target>17:54
fwereade_niemeyer, I haven't verified, so yeah, we definitely want that bug ;)17:55
m_3bbcmicrocomputer: 600 isn't an unreasonable starting point... better for the charm author to screw up in a more secure way than not IMO17:56
bbcmicrocomputerm_3: yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if it was by design for this very reason17:57
bbcmicrocomputerm_3: at least then the author is thinking about it17:57
m_3bbcmicrocomputer: right17:57
_mup_Bug #953258 was filed: juju executing hooks with umask of 0077 <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/953258 >18:25
_mup_Bug #953339 was filed: juju remove-relation usage/help typo <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/953339 >19:45
robbiewjcastro: SpamapS: http://www.zazzle.com/run_lxc_tshirt-23516877572325938421:25
robbiewwe should make hallyn wear it21:25
jcastrorobbiew, can we put "but don't forget to remove the stuff in /var/lib every once in a while." on the back?21:35
jcastrothat is pretty awesome though21:36
arosalesjcastro, m_3: If you have a spare minute could you add http://charmschoolsv.eventbrite.com/ to juju.ubuntu.com/Events?21:37
arosalesmore for our tracking where and what we have done.21:37
arosalesalso what do you think about putting webinars/virtual sessions you have done there to?21:38
arosalesfor http://charmschoolsv.eventbrite.com/ Clint and Juan are running that one.21:38
m_3arosales: done21:48
arosalesm_3: Thank you21:48
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marcoceppiHey everyone o/ So I've started back up on the Steam charm and I don't think it's being done properly23:10
m_3marcoceppi: cool man... don't be shy about making changes23:11
marcoceppiRight, This one is kind of drastic though. I'm thinking that each "steam game" should be a subordinate(sp?) charm of a main Steam charm. To be deployed with the "Constraints" flag23:11
marcoceppiBasically "I want to do this thing even more weirder"23:12
marcoceppiBecause more weirder is the only way to describe it23:12
m_3I kind of seems like a config option to me23:12
m_3but there's no reason not to do it that way23:12
m_3well... except those features haven't really landed yet23:12
m_3I'd say heck yeah... experiment23:13
marcoceppiThat's what I've been hammering on; however, I've run into "How do I deploy custom maps", "How do I add plugins", "How do I manage config options that don't exist between games"23:13
m_3ah right23:13
marcoceppiThere are maybe a handful of shared config options, the rest are just hog wild different23:13
m_3well perhaps they're all separate charms?  that have a steam plugin of sorts23:13
m_3which is exactly what you were saying ;)23:14
marcoceppiFor maps I figured there could be a "maps" folder that users can extract maps to and that would be moved in to place for that game, but if you switch game types the maps won't be compatible23:14
marcoceppim_3: Yeah ;)23:14
marcoceppiIt's a weird use case23:14
marcoceppiI really don't _want_ to make 35 different charms for each different Steam game server23:14
marcoceppibut I'm running out of sane options for consolidating them in to one23:15
m_3marcoceppi: until the steam charm can be deployed separately, then I'd recommend just using a helper sort of library for those parts... then you can turn it into a separate charm once we can do subordinates23:15
m_3marcoceppi: wow.. that _is_ a lot23:16
marcoceppiyeah :\23:16
m_3perhaps it's just more complex configuration then23:16
marcoceppiWell, I currently do this for configuration. juju steam --set config_key="mp_timelimit" config_value="12"23:16
marcoceppiso you have wild card config keys23:17
m_3note you can pass entire json or yaml files as config options...23:17
marcoceppiAlso, what's the policy on something like "map_url" as a config option that would fetch a remote ZIP file and extract it (not over HTTPS and most likely using any Cryptographic checking) but wouldn't be part of the actual charm setup, user invoked23:18
m_3marcoceppi: do you have example configuration files for deploying steam?23:20
m_3a couple of different games23:20
marcoceppim_3: I've been doing that for each game23:20
marcoceppiso you could just point to a configuration file and it would use "sane" defaults for that game23:20
m_3marcoceppi: links?23:21
m_3marcoceppi: you still working from lp:~marcoceppi/charms/oneiric/steam/trunk?23:21
marcoceppiYeah, there might not be all the updates there but not much work has been done since then23:22
marcoceppiSo that's what a game config looks like23:22
m_3marcoceppi: awesome... I'll take a look23:23
m_3marcoceppi: perhaps some config options can be grouped into dedicated config files... then we can pass the entire config files in as charm config params23:25
m_3yaml can take a yaml file as a field23:26
m_3that's a snippet from a config yaml file I'm passing in to a charm23:27
m_3the | and the indentation make the magic happen23:27
m_3I think that could be really useful here23:27
m_3marcoceppi: we'd have to watch _re_configuration... treat that more as a full upgrade... but it should work23:29
marcoceppiRight, this looks promising, I'm going to give it a shot23:30
m_3seems like it'd make it easier to have separate sets of config options for different games... this way you can pass in a whole config file for each game23:31
m_3common stuff you can keep in the main config.yaml23:31
m_3but then there's an option for... game_config:23:31
m_3that you write out and point the game to during spinup23:31

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