[00:00] <micahg> ScottL: len-nb: nevermind, didn't scroll up far enough
[00:02] <len-nb> np
[00:05] <micahg> ScottL: you already pull in the Qt stack with hydrogen, so digikam shouldn't add much more
[00:06] <micahg> TheMuso: are you comfortable with the lowlatency kernel being a default?
[01:27] <ScottL> micahg, len-nb : i would be most comfortable waiting for TheMuso 's answer about the -lowlatency support before moving forward
[01:33] <len-nb> np, I have no opinion either way. No ISO to test so I am playing with a replacement for the bottom panel. It has work flows listed clicking on a workflow replaces the list of workflows with the apps for that workflow.
[01:58] <ScottL> len-nb, interesting, that sounds very, very similar to what i had considered asking one of the developers to do
[01:59] <ScottL> i was hoping it could use a couple configuration text files for each work flow, similar to how the old menu worked
[01:59] <ScottL> len-nb, do you have the menu updated also in your -default-settings package in your branch?
[02:00] <ScottL> did you remove the any unneeded menu files?
[02:16] <len-nb> ScottL I had fixed the settings file adding and removing files as needed.
[02:16] <len-nb> https://code.launchpad.net/~len-ovenwerks/+junk/ubuntustudio-default-settings
[02:17] <len-nb> However, it does not have your changes of logo files in it.
[02:20] <len-nb> my workflow app would just use one config file. Each app can either be the name of a desktop file or exec file and label and icon... either one of the last two could be missing.
[03:26] <ScottL> len-nb, i'm working the menu now, i just wanted to make sure which files were required and that you didn't leave any "legacy" .menu or .directory files :)
[03:27] <ScottL> i noticed there were various .directory files in the /UbuntuStudio directory along with the /debian, /usr, /etc directories
[03:28] <ScottL> i wanted to confirm these were the new ones, which i can see they are from going through the changes
[03:31] <len-nb> ScottL, all the .directory files are used. I kept the two from before and added what I needed.
[03:37] <len-nb> ScottL I've added a few icons to /usr/share/pixmaps as well I do have a better one for hexter than the one in the package. do you want me to send it?
[03:37] <ScottL> len-nb, mmmmm, probably not
[03:38] <ScottL> oh, i need to file a sync request as well for mudita24 now that alessio has uploaded the latest version in debian
[03:39] <len-nb> ok, I made that one up, but I found the right one when I loaded US 10.04. I have it saved on the desktop downstairs.
[03:39] <micahg> ScottL: it's already in precise
[03:40] <ScottL> micahg, the latest version?  quadrispro said he just did it yesterday (or very early today)
[03:40] <micahg> yep :)
[03:40] <micahg> uploaded ~2 hrs ago
[03:40] <ScottL> super cool!  one less thing to do :-D
[03:41] <ScottL> micahg, i really would like to wait to update the meta's until we hear from luke, even if it is delayed a few days
[03:41] <micahg> ScottL: sure, no problem
[03:42] <ScottL> i would also like to use that time to adjust a few things that are not in the right place and add a few more smaller items to support the work flows
[03:42] <ScottL> nothing structural, mind you
[05:27] <TheMuso> micahg, ScottL, its not really up to me, I am just helping with kernel maintenance. I have run the kernel for a while without issue, so if you want it as default, I don't really have a problem with that.
[05:29] <micahg> TheMuso: ScottL: I would say it should only be default if there's a commitment to upload almost in step with any kernel security uploads (which will require coordination with the Ubuntu security team), if someone is committed to preparing these source packages, I don't have any objection, otherwise, you're opening users up to possible security issues
[10:40] <ailo> ScottL: I'm perfectly willing to maintain the kernel myself. It seems like a simple deal from what I understand, since the diff is only a few config options (which I wouldn't expect to change during the course of LTS), and even if preparing the kernel is a bit more than just adding those configs, it doesn't seem like there's that much to learn in order to maintain it.
[10:40] <ailo> I would commit not only to maintain it, but to understand each step in doing so
[10:42] <ailo> Would need to be updated on the procedure. 
[10:43] <ailo> TheMuso: And coordinating with Ubuntu is not something I know a lot about either, so..
[10:44] <ailo> I would at least like to give it a try, but I would need some help getting started
[10:44] <ailo> I could start by doing maintenance paralell to the real effort, and if it works out, I would willingly take it over
[11:23] <shnatsel> what the hell is going on
[11:24] <shnatsel> sorry
[11:24] <shnatsel> wrong channel]
[11:24] <knome> >__<
[12:11] <ScottL> micahg, the blueprint has items for me working with jjhonansen and someone else to set up the git repo, UKT setting up lowlatency as a derivative or something to make this easier, and then working out the methodology for doing security
[12:11]  * ScottL is finding the link to the bluepring
[12:11] <ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency
[12:12] <ScottL> micahg, but cxan you still give me at least 18 hours to make the other changes to seeds before updating the meta?
[12:58] <scott-work> can someone help me suss out the icons a bit?  i don't really like the way the cursor looks when it hovers over a link
[12:58] <scott-work> i thought i was doing this like xubuntu so i'm slightly confused, anyone have some time to help with this?
[14:00] <micahg> ScottL:  sure
[14:21] <scott-work> oh micahg, i also wanted to solicit your help with a postinst file for implementing sane default settings for jack
[14:22] <scott-work> i know what the file should be, i know where it shoudl go, i just need to develop the code in the postinst file to make sure it's not overwritting something already created by the user
[14:23] <scott-work> micahg:  if you can point me in at least a general direction on both of these issues that would be awesome :)
[14:25] <scott-work> micahg: i'm surprised you are awake currently, i thought it was very, very early morning for you
[14:34] <scott-work> so, holstein, as i said ;)...
[14:34] <scott-work> i tested the new menu last night/this morning
[14:34] <scott-work> i'll tweak it a bit then push to bzr tonight
[14:34] <scott-work> len was a big help (HUGE help) on this
[14:34] <scott-work> also len has changes for the panel
[14:34] <scott-work> i'll do that next which shouldn't take long
[14:35] <holstein> len: :)
[14:35] <scott-work> i'm trying to work with cjwatson on the preseed/ubiquity/no -rt privileges issue
[14:35] <scott-work> and i want to get some help with the ubiquity installer background/text color issue as well
[14:35] <scott-work> bug #923810
[14:35] <scott-work> bug #952462
[14:36] <scott-work> hopefully, micahg can help me with the cursor issue and also getting the jack default settings resolves as well
[14:36] <scott-work> i have a list of other things i *shoudl* be doing as well, but those are the things on top of my head right now
[14:36] <scott-work> oh, and i figure we will postpone the ubquitiy plugin until next cycle
[14:36] <scott-work> too little time and probably too much testing/fixing/texting cycles required for this cycle
[14:37] <scott-work> plus this doesn't preclude me from getting other things done then
[14:37] <scott-work> i have dick mackinnis's licensing now for his images so i'll move to include those now
[14:37] <scott-work> he is trying to work up another image that i've been talking to him about, so that might happen as well
[14:38] <scott-work> plymouth theme will probably remain unchanged and the lightdm greeter will continue to look like it is currently (i.e. not that great)
[14:39] <scott-work> but the lightdm greeter theme that happens in precise+1 i would like to backport to precise to help further refine 12.04
[14:39] <scott-work> i really want 12.04 to be THE definitive release that people talk about for years
[14:39] <scott-work> oh, i'm tweaking the seeds as well
[14:40] <scott-work> some of it is adding some packages that weren't put in yet (thanks astraljava for adding audacity) that better support the work flows
[14:40] <scott-work> but also some of it is just OCD organizing for next cycle when we further define more tasks/work flows
[14:41] <scott-work> this might include something like a "video-home" and "video-pro" tasks/work flows
[14:41] <holstein> whats the ubiquity plugin aain?
[14:41] <holstein> again?
[14:41] <scott-work> it's the part of the installer that allows the user to select which tasks they want to install, the gui version of tasksel, basically
[14:41] <scott-work> right now all the tasks (or seeds) are being installed
[14:42] <holstein> scott-work: i dont think that bad though
[14:42] <scott-work> it's not
[14:42] <holstein> i mean, we could just give an pre-determined environment
[14:42] <holstein> i think thats *quite* an improvement
[14:42] <scott-work> but if we really get the tasks refined and with a lot of options then it might be though
[14:42] <holstein> the best thing about it is that it will work
[14:43] <holstein> i dont know how many times choosing something from that list in the debian installer would cause the installer to fail
[14:44] <scott-work> but that wasn't the installers fault, i believe, it was the meta file and dependencies
[14:45] <scott-work> holstein: but if we go with a pre-defined environment, it would be nice to give users a solution to install other tasks later on
[14:45] <holstein> sure, but i hope that wont be an issue now
[14:45] <holstein> i hope the install "just works"
[14:45] <holstein> and looks/feels like the other ones
[14:45] <scott-work> one that's easier that "open synaptic -> serach for "ubuntustudio-*" -> install soemthign you like"
[14:45] <scott-work> it would be nice if it was coupled with the work flows
[14:45] <holstein> scott-work: yeah, or the software-center... we have that?
[14:46] <scott-work> i have it on my short list to include in the seeds
[14:46] <holstein> not that i care... i could go either way about it
[14:46] <holstein> not that i care... i could go either way about having the software center**
[14:46] <scott-work> i should have be there already, i had intended it to be there along with synaptic
[14:46] <scott-work> s/i/it
[15:04] <micahg> scott-work: re awake, 9AM meetings do that :)
[15:04] <micahg> scott-work: the lightdm theme could be backported in -backports, but that wouldn't be allowed on any point release images
[15:05] <micahg> scott-work: as for the postinst, I'll have to find a good guide for that
[15:07] <scott-work> micahg: good point about backports, in this case i would persue an SRU then to make sure it gets into the point releases
[15:08] <micahg> scott-work: you can't SRU new packages except in rare circumstances
[15:08] <scott-work> oh :(
[15:13] <scott-work> so, i'm thinking i shoudl make a dummy package called ubuntustudio-ubiquity-greeter for precise then :P
[15:13] <scott-work> j/k
[16:28] <scott-work> falktx:  can you talk a bit about helping studio get a few things done for 12.04?
[16:30] <falktx> hey
[16:30] <falktx> scott-work: I'm a bit busy, but I can help on small things I know how to do
[16:31] <scott-work> falktx: there were two issues:  rolling some user themes into an existing package and maybe getting a prettier lightdm greeter theme
[16:31] <scott-work> falktx:  i would be happy with whatever help you can provide
[16:32] <scott-work> but don't feel bad about saying that these are too involved or you have too little time :)
[16:32] <falktx> I think I can check #1 at least
[16:32] <falktx> scott-work: what is the bzr repo link?
[16:34] <scott-work> falktx: can i email you?  i will need to include information from other emails
[16:35] <falktx> scott-work: yes, sure
[16:48] <micahg> scott-work: I still need to show you how to look at the security history of your packages (sorry for not doing this yesterday)
[16:48] <scott-work> micahg: it's okay, my yesterday afternoon was pretty non-ubuntu-work-on-computer until later in the evening because of the kids
[16:49] <scott-work> they like the minecrafts and i've run out of computers that can run them :P
[16:49] <scott-work> i've decided that i need a dedicated, persistant, non-powerful computer downstairs (maybe in my bedroom) for development
[16:50] <scott-work> this works well since i like to keep another computer for testing the current development release and i tend to build with ppa
[16:51] <scott-work> the kids tend to overun my upstairs room (indeed, it is my oldest son's room who lives with his mother) and if they aren't using the computers they tend to distract me otherwsie
[19:29] <len_> scott-work, are you adding a DVD authoring app? As I have personally found out, lots of people don't know how to transfer a video by net.
[19:30] <scott-work> len_: yes, i did some research and found a single one to be head and shoulders above others, i need to look back at it
[19:30] <scott-work> my research was months ago though
[19:30] <scott-work> len_: i expect to be updating the seeds (hopefully) one last time (for a bit)
[19:30] <len_> OK, needs to be in repo too.
[19:32] <len_> scott-work, one other comment (aside from we have had no power all morning) it is ok to include more apps than less with the more organized menu.
[19:33] <scott-work> i agree
[19:33] <len_> Disk space is less of a problem than in the past... Getting stuff out of the way while looking for the app needed has been more of a problem
[19:34] <len_> Anyway downloading todays iso... 16% different from the last one.
[19:40] <scott-work> cjwatson is updating the -rt privileges issue as well today, but it probably will not be seen until tomorrow or so
[19:43] <len_> scott-work NP, I do lots of downloads anyway. The live image is very representative of what is there. I do have issues if I try to run too many apps at once because of memory ;-)
[21:17] <len-nb> scott-work, Lots of new photography apps. Nice. Also a problem, it seems a lot of them do not include the category photography in their desktop file and so end up in the graphics menu.
[21:19] <len-nb> It looks like the "in-elegant" manual method of assigning apps to where they belong will be needed. 
[21:25] <len-nb> mudit24 needs to excluded from multimedia and included in audio production mixers.
[21:30] <scott-work> len-nb: ack
[21:30] <scott-work> which is short for acknowledged, btw :)
[21:30] <len-nb> scott-work I would suggest envy24 could be exclued from everywhere
[21:31] <scott-work> should i just 'brute force' exlcude all photography items in graphics?
[21:31] <len-nb> Ja... I got that. scott-work I will send you a few pictures by email to show where things ended up.
[21:31] <scott-work> that would help, aye
[21:32] <len-nb> Brute force is the only way... too late to file lots of bugs...
[21:33] <scott-work> what i meant by brute force was should i just do all of them or was it few enough to be more surgical about what to remove?
[21:37] <len-nb> scott-work I would just do what is needed. The ones that are not photography category should be bugged as well... same with mixers BTW.
[21:38] <len-nb> In my opinion a desktop file without proper category tags is a bug.
[21:39] <scott-work> len-nb: would you like to help me fix these bugs?
[21:41] <len-nb> Is it the right thing to do? bug a lot of developers? If I was going to do that, I would want to be able to upload a fix and I don't have the time right now for all of them.
[21:51] <len-nb> scott-work, email sent to your gmail acc.
[21:52] <scott-work> len-nb: depends on the package, but we might either do the bug report in ubuntu or preferrably in debian
[21:52] <scott-work> but i gotta go, so i'll catch you when i'm at home
[21:53] <len-nb> np
[22:41] <astraljava> You can create a debdiff and attach it in a bug report against the package in debian.
[22:57] <len-nb> astraljava, in the case of the above, it would be a replacement desktop file that includes the right sub-category.
[22:57] <len-nb> There are some other considerations, none of them are really "wrong".
[22:58] <len-nb> The spec has a set of "mandatory" categories that reflect the standard linux menu. But then there are a bunch of optional sub-categories.
[22:59] <len-nb> The word optional means the SW writer can use them or not as they choose.
[23:00] <len-nb> This effectively means it is questionable if they are really a bug.
[23:32] <astraljava> len-nb: A bug can be filed even though there's nothing "really" wrong with the file. It's just a way of making a change, and tracking it.
[23:33] <astraljava> len-nb: And the whole file doesn't need to be replaced, if there are only changes in one category, or (an) additional row(s).
[23:33] <astraljava> len-nb: Hence I suggested the debdiff.