[02:35] <marcoceppi> HTTPS okay to avoid hash check?
[03:03] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: as long as you are verifying the certificate
[03:03] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: which wget does by default
[03:03] <marcoceppi> what about git clone via GIT+SSH?
[03:04] <SpamapS> Would need to have the ssh server key in the charm.
[03:04] <SpamapS> But then, yes
[03:04] <marcoceppi> cool, cool
[03:04] <marcoceppi> thanks
[03:04] <SpamapS> as long as you have a high degree of confidence that the content is the content you intended
[03:05] <marcoceppi> Like my highschool self, I'm low on confidence :)
[03:06] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: interesting .. who owns the S3 bucket MinecraftDownload ?
[03:06] <marcoceppi> That's Mojang's official bucket
[03:06] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: ok, so if they ever deleted it, could someone else pwn it?
[03:07] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: I think thats just "something to look out for" and not a reason to be worried
[03:07] <marcoceppi> SpamapS:  that's a good question though, I'm not sure
[03:08] <marcoceppi> I'll try that out with my personal vs work AWS accounts, see if names are locked in forever or not
[03:09] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: seems like they should be mutable if you can delete them
[03:09] <marcoceppi> Would make sense
[03:13] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: reviewed proposed change
[03:14] <marcoceppi> SpamapS:  thanks! I understand calling stop and start, but why install? Should I have the check in install to see if it's been "installed" before there?
[03:14] <hazmat> SpamapS, are you in santa clara?
[03:14]  * hazmat is as well
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: haha yes
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: actually I'm at the SJC airport
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: didn't realize pycon was here as well, or I'd have tried to get in touch w/ you guys
[03:22] <SpamapS> hazmat: I did bump into some canonical peeps at the hyatt before realizing charm school was at the hilton across the street. ;)
[03:23] <hazmat> SpamapS, wanna come over, we're all hanging out sprinting
[03:23] <hazmat> i'm sitting next to barryW
[03:47] <SpamapS> hazmat: I'm in the airport. Depart in 1hr. :-P
[03:48] <SpamapS> hazmat: just dropped in for a commando attack on the juju users of silicon valley :)
[03:49] <marcoceppi> If I'm updating a charm, and there's no copyright file, should I throw one in there?
[03:49]  * marcoceppi is not a lawyer
[03:50] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: do you know for sure the license and copyright status of all the files?
[03:50] <marcoceppi> The only files are the hooks and core charm files
[03:51] <marcoceppi> none of them have copyright headers
[03:53] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: where did you get those files?
[03:53] <marcoceppi> heh, http://charms.kapilt.com/charms/oneiric/owncloud
[03:56] <SpamapS> well I-be-damned
[03:56] <marcoceppi> yes, yes you be :)
[03:57] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: can you open a bug in that charm and assign it to koolhead17 ?
[03:57] <marcoceppi> yeah
[03:57] <SpamapS> should not have been promulgated
[03:57] <SpamapS> anyway.. since I'm damned.. I think I"ll go get a mojo burger
[03:57]  * marcoceppi looks sternly at SpamapS for not being perfect
[03:58]  * SpamapS looks hard a-stern .. 
[04:00] <marcoceppi> bug opened
[04:00] <marcoceppi> Going to head off, have a safe flight!
[05:07] <koolhead17|away> marcoceppi, hey there
[05:07] <koolhead17|away> hey SpamapS
[05:45] <_mup_> Bug #953732 was filed: Destroying a maas environment results in a traceback <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/953732 >
[12:45] <gary_poster> I'm getting the following error when I try to start a local charm:
[12:45] <gary_poster> 2012-03-13 08:44:12,459 INFO Searching for charm
[12:45] <gary_poster> Invalid value for cache: False
[12:45] <gary_poster> ...well, I'll google first...
[12:46] <gary_poster> Looks similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/952355
[12:46] <_mup_> Bug #952355: Backward incompatible change: existing env boolean values cause total failure <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952355 >
[12:46] <marcoceppi> gary_poster: Which charm?
[12:47] <gary_poster> marcoceppi, buildbot-master (which we wrote)
[12:47] <gary_poster> looks like something to do with a config value not being a string?
[12:47] <jamespage> gary_poster, yep
[12:47] <gary_poster> ok, looking, thanks
[12:47] <jamespage> basically if juju thinks it might be a boolean it won't let the config value be  string
[12:48] <gary_poster> :-/
[12:48] <jamespage> I hit this in several of my charms when running against juju PPA
[12:48] <jamespage> its also annoying that juju will fail if ANY charm in your repository has this issue - not just the one you are trying to deploy...
[12:48] <jamespage> (that took me a while to figure out)
[12:48] <gary_poster> oof, wow.  jamespage, is there an easy workaround for now?
[12:48] <marcoceppi> jamespage: Oh, that's weird
[12:48] <gary_poster> I mean, even in changing config
[12:49]  * gary_poster goes to look for explicit yaml string syntax, if there is such a thing
[12:49] <jamespage> gary_poster, switch anything that has values 'True' or 'False' to type: boolean
[12:49] <jamespage> rather than string
[12:50] <jamespage> same applies to uncapitalized versions of those literals
[12:51] <jamespage> or don't use true/false
[12:53] <gary_poster> jamespage, ack, thank you.  I don't think it's even in my charms--which charms did you find with the problem?
[12:53] <jamespage> gary_poster, cassandra had it but I've fixed that one
[12:54] <gary_poster> I suppose I could get rid of all the ones I don't currently use...and try to get newer versions of all of them
[12:54] <jamespage> gary_poster, might make sense for the time being
[12:54] <gary_poster> jamespage, ack, thanks again
[12:54] <jamespage> I'm hoping that we might get a fix to sort out backwards compat
[12:54] <jamespage> its a PITA
[12:54] <jamespage> gary_poster, np
[12:55] <gary_poster> agreed on PITA
[13:14] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: ah glad I just checked in here, was about to file a bug report for the same thing :)
[13:15] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, :-)
[13:15] <jamespage> bbcmicrocomputer, both hadoop and hbase suffered from this change
[13:15] <jamespage> I've fixed both up for precise
[13:15] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: ah cool, I'll pull down those updates then
[13:16] <bbcmicrocomputer> jamespage: looked to me like juju was just using the YAML parser and allowing it to coerce config objects to any type, hence not allowed boolean values as strings
[13:42] <niemeyer> Good mornings!
[13:47] <bbcmicrocomputer> niemeyer: morning
[13:48] <niemeyer> bbcmicrocomputer: Heya
[14:09] <marcoceppi> R
[14:48] <m_3> marcoceppi: shouldn't that be 'R m8t3' for chat like a pirate day?
[15:18] <marcoceppi> m_3:  I suppose... *rubs chin*
[15:23] <m_3> marcoceppi: :)
[15:37] <SpamapS> m_3: my son was born on talk like a pirate day. Wife was not exactly in the spirit during labor.. but the nurses were all about swabbing the deck and hoisting the mainsail.. ;)
[15:37] <SpamapS> shiver me timbers, thar be a baby!
[15:46] <marcoceppi> How can you tell which charms need review? It would appear almost all the new-charms are awaiting feedback from the authors
[15:49] <jcastro> marcoceppi, it should be new-charm
[15:49] <jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bugs?field.tag=new-charm
[15:49] <marcoceppi> right, but they all seem to have been turned over
[15:49] <jcastro> check the in progress ones
[15:49] <marcoceppi> k
[15:49] <jcastro> incomplete means not ready
[15:49] <jcastro> oh dude, new. :)
[15:50] <SpamapS> we started on diaspora on the big screen yesterday, sort of a collaborative charm writing experience.. it went pretty well.
[15:50] <jcastro> marcoceppi, looks like Gearman is ready for review
[15:50] <SpamapS> and disaspora is.. nightmarish to setup
[15:51] <jcastro> it looked so not fun
[15:51] <SpamapS> negronjl said it felt a lot like cloudfoundry
[15:53] <m_3> marcoceppi: new-charm tag _and_ status of "new" or "fix committed"
[15:53] <marcoceppi> m_3 jcastro thanks!
[15:53] <m_3> SpamapS: yay!  I totally wanna see diaspora working
[15:56] <SpamapS> m_3: 18 tons of ruby gems to install. :-(
[15:56] <SpamapS> I can't believe rubygems, pear, and pecl, don't use any kind of crypto to secure their downloads
[15:56] <m_3> marcoceppi: been trying to keep it as a conversation... review and update status to incomplete or in progress... then they set status to fix committed for a nother round of review
[15:57] <m_3> SpamapS: use bundler... there's a Gemfile
[15:57] <marcoceppi> m_3: makes sense, easy enough to track
[15:58] <SpamapS> m_3: bundler is what we used
[15:58] <m_3> SpamapS: gem won't check certs on https sources?
[15:58] <SpamapS> m_3: gem doesn't use https
[15:58] <m_3> rhuh?
[15:59] <SpamapS> it didn't last year when I was patching it for some other bugs and I got curious
[16:01] <m_3> I'd have to look... thought most sources were specified via https github urls
[16:01] <SpamapS> m_3: and where does it get those source URLs?
[16:01] <m_3> you can set that in the gemfile
[16:02] <m_3> don't know for the "standard" rubygems.org gems tho
[16:02] <SpamapS> m_3: ok, so I'm more talking about when I type 'gem install foo'
[16:02] <m_3> right... dunno for the stds
[16:03] <m_3> how'd charmschoolsv go?
[16:03] <m_3> how many peeps were working along -vs- osmoting?
[16:04] <negronjl> SpamapS, m_3:  I'll keep working on diaspora.  I'll commit the work soon.  It's a pain in the neck but, I like a challenge :)
[16:05] <m_3> negronjl: cool!
[16:05] <m_3> negronjl: I'll try to drum up volunteers to maintain it going forward
[16:06] <negronjl> m_3:  that would be great !  It's a complicated mess of gems, ruby packages and all other sorts of nonesense
[16:06] <SpamapS> so.. typical charm :)
[16:07] <m_3> negronjl: yeah, hitting a ruby conf later this week... I'll try to drum up help
[16:07] <negronjl> m_3: nice!
[16:11] <m_3> negronjl: were there lots of peeps writing stuff?
[16:12] <m_3> negronjl: or was it mostly people wanting to customize/use existing charms?
[16:12] <negronjl> m_3: Some of the guys kept asking very intelligent questions ( outside of what we were talking about ) which tells me that they were already investigating the use of juju ( and charms ) for their own projects.
[16:12] <m_3> negronjl: awesome
[16:12] <negronjl> m_3: We had some guys that were looking at the existing charms ( couchbase and cassandra come to mind ) to see how they can better the charm.
[16:13] <m_3> dude, that's great
[16:13] <negronjl> m_3: The DataStax guy in particular was already looking for ways to make cassandra better .... that part was awesome!
[16:13] <m_3> how'd we publicize this event?
[16:13] <m_3> sounds like you had a great group of people show up
[16:13] <negronjl> m_3: Some of the business guys here sent email out to their customers ... that was it
[16:14] <m_3> ok, gotcha
[16:14] <negronjl> m_3: indeed ... very smart and technical people.
[16:14] <m_3> cool... thanks for the update
[17:08] <jcastro> SpamapS, are you guys back from travel? like should we have a linkup today?
[17:09] <SpamapS> jcastro: yeah it was a 1 day thing :)
[17:09] <SpamapS> jcastro: I have a team call.. then need to catch up on email. So, probably 90min.. but then yeah I want to chat w/ you and Juan
[17:09] <jcastro> yeah whenevs
[17:09] <SpamapS> negronjl: can you join us from the land of barristas and lattes?
[17:09] <jcastro> just the usual charm team hang out, we'll snag mims
[17:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: here
[17:10] <negronjl> SpamapS: can you guys give me the Hangout URL ?
[17:11] <SpamapS> negronjl: when we start it.. 90 min
[17:11] <negronjl> SpamapS: yeah ... I jumped the gun there didn't I :/
[17:13] <SpamapS> negronjl: perhaps try thinking about baseball..
[17:20] <m_3> ewww
[17:43] <jamespage> so how exactly does the new constraints stuff work?  any good docs on usage yet?
[17:44] <SpamapS> jamespage: I believe there's a spec
[17:45] <SpamapS> hm, not in the trees anywhere.. weird
[17:45] <jamespage> SpamapS, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju/juju/trunk/view/head:/docs/source/drafts/placement.rst
[17:45] <jamespage> ?
[17:47] <SpamapS> jamespage: actually yes
[17:47] <SpamapS> that does seem to mention it
[17:47] <SpamapS> though light on implementation details like how to use them
[17:48] <jamespage> SpamapS, agreed
[17:50] <SpamapS> jamespage: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=589386
[17:50] <SpamapS> jamespage: even weirder than needing a restart..
[17:50] <SpamapS> you need *two* reloads
[17:52]  * jamespage faceplants
[17:52] <jamespage> why oh why oh why
[17:52] <SpamapS> jamespage: pretty odd. The recommended solution is to do 'restart' on initial install, and 'force-reload' on upgrades
[17:53] <SpamapS> I think I'll submit a patch for that to Debian and fix it in our packages once we get some clarity on 5.4.0
[17:53] <jamespage> SpamapS, OK - sounds sensible
[17:54] <SpamapS> jcastro: G+?
[17:54] <SpamapS> negronjl: ?
[17:54] <SpamapS> m_3: ?
[17:54] <negronjl> SpamapS: here
[17:55] <SpamapS> actually let me reboot to see if I get my video back
[17:55] <jcastro> SpamapS, give me 5!
[18:03] <SpamapS> hrm..
[18:03]  * SpamapS tries new kernel
[18:10]  * SpamapS rejoices
[18:10] <SpamapS> invites out
[18:13]  * SpamapS lurves audio hell
[18:20] <SpamapS> jcastro: ??
[18:34] <m_3> SpamapS: in a meeting...
[18:51] <m_3> SpamapS negronjl jcastro : damn... just tried to join
[18:52] <SpamapS> dohhhh haha
[18:52] <m_3> miss anything
[18:52] <m_3> ?
[18:52] <negronjl> m_3: too funny
[18:52] <SpamapS> jcastro did a triple lindy
[18:52] <negronjl> m_3: maybe we left 'cause we saw you trying to join
[18:52] <m_3> we were hanging out talking about juju arm tests
[18:52] <m_3> no way!
[18:52] <m_3> I love the triple lindy
[19:22] <_mup_> Bug #954350 was filed: juju bootstrap doesn't ensure zookeeper is installed <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/954350 >
[19:32] <koolhead11> SpamapS, marcoceppi if anyone can update the charm repo with my latest commit, i have added the copyright file!! :)
[19:32] <marcoceppi> koolhead11:  I saw that! I've got an update that will put it in place
[19:33] <koolhead11> marcoceppi, cool!! cheers!!
[21:08] <hazmat> m_3, it feels like the timeout on the charmrunner service watching needs to be increased to account for the container creation
[21:09] <SpamapS> hazmat: hey, ... lxc-start-ephemeral.. why can't we use that in juju instead of lxc-start?
[21:09] <SpamapS> or rather, instead of lxc-clone+lxc-start ?
[21:09] <hazmat> SpamapS, we do lxc-clone
[21:09] <SpamapS> Right, ephemeral is now using overlayfs .. allowing all containers to share the same VFS cache
[21:09] <hazmat> on an ssd its pretty fast to get a new container for a new unit
[21:10] <SpamapS> not about speed
[21:10] <hazmat> the charmrunner is reusing the env, so the template container is still around
[21:10] <SpamapS> cache pressure is intense w/ 7 containers running
[21:10] <SpamapS> think .. laptop w/ 4GB of RAM..  spinning up openstack on that pushes it into swap.
[21:11] <hazmat> doc it hurts when i kick myself ;-0
[21:11] <hazmat> SpamapS,  is that overlay persistent?
[21:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: don't know.
[21:11] <SpamapS> perhaps?
[21:11] <SpamapS> hazmat: aufs was persistent.. so I presume overlayfs (which is supposed to be a replacement) is too
[21:12] <hazmat> i guess i should play around with it
[21:12] <SpamapS> hazmat: tho "lxc-start-ephemeral" suggests that the containers maybe are not.
[21:13] <SpamapS> hazmat: I wonder.. maybe we can mod lxc-clone to use it somehow
[21:13]  * SpamapS wonders why we're re-inventing schroot in lxc's tools
[21:13] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. its creating the overlay in /tmp
[21:26] <SpamapS> hazmat: ok, so in theory, we could just change our usage of 'lxc-clone' to just mount an overlayfs and copy the configs..
[21:27] <SpamapS> hazmat: and then push that back upstream to lxc as '--overlayfs' eventually.
[21:27] <SpamapS> hazmat: one thing that sucks.. overlayfs still doesn't support inotify. :-P
[21:28] <hazmat> SpamapS, we could, but really that should be in the ephemeral script to take an overlaydir option
[21:28] <hazmat> and then we could just use it..
[21:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: except then its not ephemeral :)
[21:29] <hazmat> SpamapS, the only reason its ephemeral is that the script is hardcoded to use a /tmp dir.. else it would be suitable.. but yeah.. point taken
[21:29] <SpamapS> hazmat: tho because the rootfs is a mount, and not static files on disk, we'd need a pre-start for the container that mounts it again.. I think
[21:30] <SpamapS> hazmat: or just accept that they are ephemeral make it an environment option
[21:30] <SpamapS> err.. "and" make it an option
[21:50] <koolhead11> https://github.com/lg/murder  is it possible to use it as charm?
[21:51] <SpamapS> koolhead11: yes it would be an awesome charm!
[21:52] <SpamapS> koolhead11: it might morph into a subordinate once that lands
[21:52] <koolhead11> SpamapS, but how will/can we use it?
[21:53] <koolhead11> i meant a used case kind :PO
[21:55] <SpamapS> koolhead11: probably two parts.. one charm for the tracker server, and then one as the client that distributes files.
[21:55] <SpamapS> koolhead11: dare to dream... if you have a use case.. charm it up.. otherwise.. perhaps leave it for somebody with practical need/experience to make it happen?
[21:56] <koolhead11> SpamapS, shall i put it as whishlist/charm needed?
[22:34] <SpamapS> koolhead11: sure. :)
[22:39] <SpamapS> hazmat: thoughs on bug 952397 .. I saw that you picked it up..
[22:39] <_mup_> Bug #952397: Juju is forcing *ALL* charms in a repo to be perfect to be able to deploy *any* <juju:In Progress by hazmat> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/952397 >
[22:39] <SpamapS> thoughs or thoughts  .. either is fine ;)
[22:40] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. i need to fix up the exception hiearchy to prevent that from reoccuring.. the whole get_charm_from_path returning a charm error if its not a charm screws up the error catching logic to often
[22:41] <hazmat> SpamapS, i'm sprinting on mailman right now at pycon (conference day).. but i'll be back in the swing tomorrow
[22:41] <koolhead11> SpamapS, https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/954535
[22:41] <_mup_> Bug #954535: Charm needed: murder <charm> <juju> <Juju Charms Collection:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/954535 >
[22:41] <SpamapS> hazmat: cool I figured it was just an error handling issue
[22:42] <SpamapS> koolhead11: thanks!