[00:00] good thanks, you? [00:00] doing well, getting kids dinner then i'm working on some studio stuff [11:32] ochosi: If you have a little time sometime soon, please have a look at bug #952462, Colin mentions Xfce session handling in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/952462/comments/4 [11:32] Launchpad bug 952462 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntustudio 12.04 installer has unreadable text" [Medium,Confirmed] [11:54] astraljava: you need to do like mythbuntu-live-autostart/xubuntu-live-settings [13:16] micahg: thanks, I hope it'll be ok for the next beta. [14:07] mr_pouit: Thanks, I also learnt this from a later comment on the bug. I'll look into this tonight, hopefully. [15:01] Anyone in here using thunderbird as an email app and keeping Indicator plugin in use as well? I find the indicator fails to keep syncronized with the unread mail information from t-bird, thus erratically showing the envelope as blue even when all mail has been marked as read. [15:13] mr_pouit: yeah, next beta should be doable [15:23] astraljava: i guess lionel's reply is what you want/ed :) [15:23] ochosi: Sure is, thanks. :) === yofel_ is now known as yofel [18:59] * knome fires up the desktop pc and we're good to go [19:02] @ping [19:02] pong [19:02] Ready, just not identified. [19:02] okay, so who's here for the meeting? [19:02] I am. [19:03] \o [19:03] o hai [19:04] #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting [19:04] Meeting started Wed Mar 14 19:04:05 2012 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [19:04] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [19:04] #topic Team Updates [19:04] #subtopic Package and Development [19:04] meetingology, [19:04] errrh [19:04] mr_pouit, [19:05] nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin [19:05] mr_pouit, can you repost with #info? thanks :P [19:05] micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2 [19:06] I hate you :p [19:06] it's mutual [19:06] i hate myself too [19:06] #info nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin [19:06] #info micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2 [19:06] voila :) [19:06] thanks [19:06] anything else? [19:07] #info PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 [19:07] yeah, that too [19:07] err!!! [19:07] #info NON-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 [19:07] * knome 's brain is a bit numb [19:07] #subtopic Bugs, Testing, Docs [19:07] how many users do we expect to need that? [19:08] micahg, no idea, but it's easier to install PAE [19:08] You should be able to go from a mini and install xubuntu-desktop. [19:08] Unit193, yes... but in that case, we're offering alternate too [19:08] Unit193, so those who need alternate, could go via mini too [19:09] there's an item for this on other business, we can continue this later in the meeting :) [19:09] anything on bugs, testing, docs? [19:09] ah, yes [19:09] #info I'm in the process of improving the testing docs, hopefully a blog post too so we can have more testers for beta2 [19:10] . [19:11] something else? [19:11] that's all from me [19:11] ok... [19:11] #subtopic Marketing, Art, Web [19:12] i suppose there's not yet anything new from the marketing stuff? [19:12] #info Submitted web form request to confirm we can make Xubuntu products, no response [19:12] it's been over 2 weeks now [19:12] so nothing new :( [19:12] :/ [19:12] yeah, let's hope we get forward before precise release [19:13] I'll try again, maybe it just got lost [19:13] btw, if we change our logo, we need new stickers [19:13] or at least new sticker sources :) [19:14] #subtopic General updates [19:14] anything else? [19:15] I think that's it [19:15] me too, it should be quiet after all the freezes... [19:15] #topic Other Business [19:15] #subtopic Seeding GThumb [19:16] okay, so now that ristretto is working again, do we feel like we still should seed gthumb? [19:17] yeah, for importing photos from cameras? [19:17] but most of the cameras work as uh, filesystems [19:17] there was a term for this [19:18] mass storage? [19:18] that [19:20] so does most of the cameras support that or not? [19:20] I think we still need gthumb for other cameras that use ptp [19:20] (but I'm not really into that sort of things, so I can be wrong ;-) [19:21] okay, it's not too large, is it? [19:21] and btw, what's the current iso size status? [19:21] we're not oversized anyway [19:22] amd64: 694M, i386: 679M [19:22] (today) [19:22] mmh, so not too tight [19:22] (thinking about P+1 too) [19:22] so let's still seed gthumb [19:22] or does somebody disagree? [19:23] no? okay... [19:23] #subtopic New logo [19:23] so, there's a proposal for a new logo [19:23] reasoning is: [19:23] it's easier to drop in to various places graphically [19:23] it works better on small sizes [19:24] it's brighter and more saturated [19:24] and it looks good too. [19:24] comparisons can be found at: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/ [19:25] comments? [19:25] it's good :) [19:26] yes, i personally prefer the closed shape very much [19:28] is anybody disagreeing? i wanted to bring this to the meeting to raise discussion and to hear if somebody disagrees [19:29] * knome just confirmed with skaet that we are okay to do the logo changes after UIFe [19:29] so no exception needed? [19:30] mr_pouit, i'm checking with skaet [19:31] #action knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere [19:31] ACTION: knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere [19:31] * micahg prefers the old logo [19:32] the new one makes it hard to tell what it is [19:33] mmh. i wonder if that's true for those too who doesn't already know the xfce logo [19:33] (I like it on the plymouth theme) [19:33] mr_pouit, "probably best to submit a UIFe" [19:34] mr_pouit, if you need help with that, just ask me [19:34] mr_pouit, or, if you want me to do that :P [19:35] and the whiskers look like a bunny is hiding in the background [19:35] mr_pouit, the new or old? [19:36] micahg, in the old logo, the whiskers are barely visible [19:36] right :) [19:36] except in BIG sizes [19:36] knome: the new one (and yes, please file the UIFe please :P) [19:37] but that's not really a problem with the new logo either... there *is* a gap :) [19:37] mr_pouit, yeah, skaet ACK'd, now just need to send email to docs team [19:38] mr_pouit, okay, we need to upload *this week* :) [19:38] knome: I think the gap makes it look funny [19:39] micahg, yeah, but the gap existed on the old logo too [19:39] doesn't look like it [19:39] huh? [19:39] in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/logo_comparison.png ? :) [19:40] oh, yeah, on that one you can see it [19:40] yeah, it's a small one on both, but there is one on both [19:40] was looking at the website logo [19:40] ah :) [19:40] yeah, the website logo is actually the reason why we decided to change [19:44] micahg, so, do you still think there new logo is weird? [19:44] yes [19:44] i mean, there's some drawbacks on both ones.. [19:44] but I've been using Xubuntu for 4 years and am very familiar with the old look [19:44] is it about the whiskers, or the mousehead-shape? [19:45] both [19:45] mmh [19:45] any suggestions how could we make it less weird? [19:46] for the mousehead, i don't think there's much to do except small changes to the shape, since the idea is to have a closed-shape logo [19:46] thinner whiskers, add back legs? [19:46] would make the shape inside the circle smaller [19:47] also, i suppose it would look weird to have legs but almost no body at all :) [19:48] anyhow, do we think we're ready to vote? [19:48] small changes are doable before uploading, i'll be working on this tomorrow anyway [19:48] * micahg seems to be alone in this view though [19:48] micahg: I wasn't fond of it either. [19:49] i could look about making the gap for whiskers bigger [19:49] Unit193, and this is exactly why i asked you to say this earlier [19:49] I don't think the gap should be bigger, rather the whiskers thinned out [19:50] mmh. [19:50] i can look what i can do without making them disappear again on small sizes :) [19:50] or, then we could just have two versions, but that's in a way suboptimal [19:51] Unit193, do you want to express what *you* think is not right with the new logo? [19:51] Not really, that's why I held my fingers, so to say. [19:51] micahg, are you completely dissatisfied with the new look? [19:53] knome: idk, I'd probably get used to it over time, I just prefer something closer to the old one [19:53] micahg, yeah. it's not that i don't like the old one, it's just a near-nightmare graphically to drop in to various places :) [19:54] knome: can we go the other way and pull the full mouse in? [19:55] micahg, that makes it completely unrexognisable on small sizes [19:55] micahg, which is why we didn't do that at 10.04, when we changed the logo the last time [19:55] what does upstream do about this? [19:55] i suppose xfce uses the X from the logo [19:55] and mouse only on bigger sizes [19:58] micahg, do you think the whiskers are too fat in the website comparison already? [19:59] yes [19:59] what about plymouth? [19:59] imo they are quite right there... [20:00] but maybe that's because it's inverted :) [20:01] the actual sizes are pretty much the smae [20:01] #action knome to look the whisker-size [20:01] ACTION: knome to look the whisker-size [20:01] that's my favorite action item ever [20:01] hehe [20:02] if there is nothing new to add to the discussion, let's vote yay/nay [20:02] #vote New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) [20:02] Please vote on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) [20:02] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [20:02] +1 [20:02] +1 received from knome [20:02] +1 [20:02] +1 received from pleia2 [20:03] mr_pouit, micahg, Unit193 [20:03] -1 [20:03] -1 received from micahg [20:03] -0 [20:04] Unit193, i suppose -0 isn't +0 :D [20:04] but mmh... [20:04] +0 [20:04] +0 received from Unit193 [20:04] Meany... [20:05] mr_pouit, you still lurking around or should we proceed? [20:05] #endvote [20:05] Voting ended on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) [20:05] Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1 [20:05] Motion carried [20:06] not exactly overwhelming support :) maybe a discussion for the list? [20:06] pleia2, we need to push the changes this week, according to skaet, who's now on the chan [20:06] * pleia2 nods [20:06] mr_pouit said earlier that he likes the new logo on plymouth [20:06] ok [20:07] also, ochosi would have given +1, if he was attending [20:07] good enough [20:07] (that's said at #shimmer though, but it's recorded) [20:08] what ochosi also said is probably true; if we're changing the logo, we probably should do that with 12.04 [20:08] and i have to agree with that. pushing a new logo for LTS+1 is quite bland :) [20:09] #info knome promises to work on any suggestions to make the new logo better tomorrow [20:09] #subtopic PAE kernel [20:09] okay, so non-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 [20:09] was there some discussion people wanted to have about this? [20:10] apparently not anymore... :) [20:11] * micahg wonders if Windows 8 supports non-PAE [20:11] #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting [20:11] ouch [20:11] heh [20:11] well [20:11] ubuntu desktop doesn't [20:11] and i agree it makes sense to have a derivative that does [20:11] well, no ubuntu-desktop supports it, just not in the installer :) [20:12] mmh, right [20:12] but yeah, how do you install the system if the installer is PAE-only [20:12] as do we [20:12] install 11.10 or a netboot install [20:12] yeah, but let's say 13.04 is out [20:12] you don't want to install 11.10 [20:13] or even when 12.10 is out [20:13] it doesn't make much sense [20:13] 13.04 probably will not have a non-PAE kernell, 12.10 might not either [20:13] having non-PAE kernel doesn't do any harm, right? [20:13] knome: you install 11.10 and upgrade to 12.04 [20:13] i mean, you can always switch to PAE kernel after installation [20:14] 12.04 will probably be end of the line for non-PAE kernels [20:14] that's a smaller bad than having to install+upgrade [20:14] yeah, but otoh, 12.04 is LTS, so it makes sense to support non-PAE there [20:14] if 12.10 is PAE-only, then it is, and we have to live with it [20:14] it would be nice to have the same support as regular ubuntu in this regard [20:15] so keep non-pae with lts, then drop it after [20:15] knome: well, if the installer work happens anyways and it won't break anything, I wouldn't mind shipping the non-PAE kernel [20:15] pleia2: the Ubuntu ISOs for 12.04 will ship the PAE kernel for i386 [20:15] micahg, we've filed a bug today and cjwatson is the assignee, and will work it out [20:15] micahg: oh, oops [20:15] maybe we should too :\ [20:16] so, if it's not too much work and won't break anything, I don't mind either way [20:16] pleia2, except in that case, those users with processors that do not support PAE will need to install 11.0 and upgrade to 12.04 [20:16] knome: which is either a 10+ year old desktop or a 5+ year old laptop/netbook [20:16] if it's too much work or breaks things, i'm sure we'll hear about this and can rethink [20:16] knome: as I understand it, the number of users this impacts is on the low side (and it's not like we'll have a fleet of people installing xubuntu servers) [20:17] pleia2: right, that's why I'm ambivalent about the whole thing [20:17] micahg, yes, but we say on our website that xubuntu works on older hardware too [20:17] pleia2, the number of users who need alternate is on the low side too [20:18] knome: it will work :), just depends what you define as old, you can't run Xubuntu on a P1 [20:18] my p3 laptop won't run pae, but my p3 laptop also kernel panics when I look at it wrong [20:18] micahg, but you do agree with me that we can use non-PAE if it just works? :) [20:18] mr_pouit +1'd non-PAE [20:19] he's going to love me for highlighting him so many times... [20:19] knome: yes, as those installinig 32 bit xubuntu vs 64 bit will probably have less than 3GB RAM [20:19] okay, good [20:20] #info cjwatson will look at using non-PAE kernel with xubuntu precise i386, knome to follow-up with him if problems arises [20:21] so, now the old action items [20:21] #action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in [20:21] ACTION: pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in [20:21] carried on [20:21] #action knome to design flyers [20:21] ACTION: knome to design flyers [20:21] carried on [20:21] wallpaper is finalized [20:21] madnick provided code [20:21] shortcuts are in [20:21] wallpaper is in the repo [20:22] xfce package revs ok [20:22] #action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs [20:22] ACTION: pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs [20:22] #action pleia2 to gather content for flyers [20:22] ACTION: pleia2 to gather content for flyers [20:22] and wikipage is set [20:22] #endmeeting [20:22] Meeting ended Wed Mar 14 20:22:38 2012 UTC. [20:22] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.moin.txt [20:22] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.html [20:22] thanks everybody for attending [20:23] * knome needs to lay on the sofa for a while [20:24] i'll update the minutes after that [20:25] thanks knome :) [20:25] Great, thanks knome. [20:31] (yeah, sorry, that was dinner time, a bit complicated to skip :P) [20:31] Why would you? [20:32] to vote during the meeting ;D [20:32] * mr_pouit hides [21:10] minutes are up [21:10] bbl [21:20] tweeted