[00:00] <jono> good thanks, you?
[00:00] <ScottL> doing well, getting kids dinner then i'm working on some studio stuff
[11:32] <astraljava> ochosi: If you have a little time sometime soon, please have a look at bug #952462, Colin mentions Xfce session handling in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/952462/comments/4
[11:54] <mr_pouit> astraljava: you need to do like mythbuntu-live-autostart/xubuntu-live-settings
[13:16] <mr_pouit> micahg: thanks, I hope it'll be ok for the next beta.
[14:07] <astraljava> mr_pouit: Thanks, I also learnt this from a later comment on the bug. I'll look into this tonight, hopefully.
[15:01] <astraljava> Anyone in here using thunderbird as an email app and keeping Indicator plugin in use as well? I find the indicator fails to keep syncronized with the unread mail information from t-bird, thus erratically showing the envelope as blue even when all mail has been marked as read.
[15:13] <micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, next beta should be doable
[15:23] <ochosi> astraljava: i guess lionel's reply is what you want/ed :)
[15:23] <astraljava> ochosi: Sure is, thanks. :)
[18:59]  * knome fires up the desktop pc and we're good to go
[19:02] <Unit193> @ping
[19:02] <meetingology> pong
[19:02] <Unit193> Ready, just not identified.
[19:02] <knome> okay, so who's here for the meeting?
[19:02] <Unit193> I am.
[19:03] <pleia2> \o
[19:03] <mr_pouit> o hai
[19:04] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[19:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 14 19:04:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:04] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:04] <knome> #topic Team Updates
[19:04] <knome> #subtopic Package and Development
[19:04] <knome> meetingology, 
[19:04] <knome> errrh
[19:04] <knome> mr_pouit, 
[19:05] <mr_pouit> nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin
[19:05] <knome> mr_pouit, can you repost with #info? thanks :P
[19:05] <mr_pouit> micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2
[19:06] <mr_pouit> I hate you :p
[19:06] <knome> it's mutual
[19:06] <knome> i hate myself too
[19:06] <mr_pouit> #info nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin
[19:06] <mr_pouit> #info micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2
[19:06] <mr_pouit> voila :)
[19:06] <knome> thanks
[19:06] <knome> anything else?
[19:07] <knome> #info PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386
[19:07] <mr_pouit> yeah, that too
[19:07] <knome> err!!!
[19:07] <knome> #info NON-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386
[19:07]  * knome 's brain is a bit numb
[19:07] <knome> #subtopic Bugs, Testing, Docs
[19:07] <micahg> how many users do we expect to need that?
[19:08] <knome> micahg, no idea, but it's easier to install PAE
[19:08] <Unit193> You should be able to go from a mini and install xubuntu-desktop.
[19:08] <knome> Unit193, yes... but in that case, we're offering alternate too
[19:08] <knome> Unit193, so those who need alternate, could go via mini too
[19:09] <knome> there's an item for this on other business, we can continue this later in the meeting :)
[19:09] <knome> anything on bugs, testing, docs?
[19:09] <pleia2> ah, yes
[19:09] <pleia2> #info I'm in the process of improving the testing docs, hopefully a blog post too so we can have more testers for beta2
[19:10] <pleia2> .
[19:11] <knome> something else?
[19:11] <pleia2> that's all from me
[19:11] <knome> ok...
[19:11] <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Art, Web
[19:12] <knome> i suppose there's not yet anything new from the marketing stuff?
[19:12] <pleia2> #info Submitted web form request to confirm we can make Xubuntu products, no response
[19:12] <pleia2> it's been over 2 weeks now
[19:12] <pleia2> so nothing new :(
[19:12] <knome> :/
[19:12] <knome> yeah, let's hope we get forward before precise release
[19:13] <pleia2> I'll try again, maybe it just got lost
[19:13] <knome> btw, if we change our logo, we need new stickers
[19:13] <knome> or at least new sticker sources :)
[19:14] <knome> #subtopic General updates
[19:14] <knome> anything else?
[19:15] <pleia2> I think that's it
[19:15] <knome> me too, it should be quiet after all the freezes...
[19:15] <knome> #topic Other Business
[19:15] <knome> #subtopic Seeding GThumb
[19:16] <knome> okay, so now that ristretto is working again, do we feel like we still should seed gthumb?
[19:17] <mr_pouit> yeah, for importing photos from cameras?
[19:17] <knome> but most of the cameras work as uh, filesystems
[19:17] <knome> there was a term for this
[19:18] <mr_pouit> mass storage?
[19:18] <knome> that
[19:20] <knome> so does most of the cameras support that or not?
[19:20] <mr_pouit> I think we still need gthumb for other cameras that use ptp
[19:20] <mr_pouit> (but I'm not really into that sort of things, so I can be wrong ;-)
[19:21] <knome> okay, it's not too large, is it?
[19:21] <knome> and btw, what's the current iso size status?
[19:21] <mr_pouit> we're not oversized anyway
[19:22] <mr_pouit> amd64: 694M, i386: 679M
[19:22] <mr_pouit> (today)
[19:22] <knome> mmh, so not too tight
[19:22] <knome> (thinking about P+1 too)
[19:22] <knome> so let's still seed gthumb
[19:22] <knome> or does somebody disagree?
[19:23] <knome> no? okay...
[19:23] <knome> #subtopic New logo
[19:23] <knome> so, there's a proposal for a new logo
[19:23] <knome> reasoning is:
[19:23] <knome> it's easier to drop in to various places graphically
[19:23] <knome> it works better on small sizes
[19:24] <knome> it's brighter and more saturated
[19:24] <knome> and it looks good too.
[19:24] <knome> comparisons can be found at: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/
[19:25] <knome> comments?
[19:25] <pleia2> it's good :)
[19:26] <knome> yes, i personally prefer the closed shape very much
[19:28] <knome> is anybody disagreeing? i wanted to bring this to the meeting to raise discussion and to hear if somebody disagrees
[19:29]  * knome just confirmed with skaet that we are okay to do the logo changes after UIFe
[19:29] <mr_pouit> so no exception needed?
[19:30] <knome> mr_pouit, i'm checking with skaet
[19:31] <knome> #action knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere
[19:31] <meetingology> ACTION: knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere
[19:31]  * micahg prefers the old logo
[19:32] <micahg> the new one makes it hard to tell what it is
[19:33] <knome> mmh. i wonder if that's true for those too who doesn't already know the xfce logo
[19:33] <mr_pouit> (I like it on the plymouth theme)
[19:33] <knome> mr_pouit, "probably best to submit a UIFe"
[19:34] <knome> mr_pouit, if you need help with that, just ask me
[19:34] <knome> mr_pouit, or, if you want me to do that :P
[19:35] <micahg> and the whiskers look like a bunny is hiding in the background
[19:35] <knome> mr_pouit, the new or old?
[19:36] <knome> micahg, in the old logo, the whiskers are barely visible
[19:36] <micahg> right :)
[19:36] <knome> except in BIG sizes
[19:36] <mr_pouit> knome: the new one (and yes, please file the UIFe please :P)
[19:37] <knome> but that's not really a problem with the new logo either... there *is* a gap :)
[19:37] <knome> mr_pouit, yeah, skaet ACK'd, now just need to send email to docs team
[19:38] <knome> mr_pouit, okay, we need to upload *this week* :)
[19:38] <micahg> knome: I think the gap makes it look funny
[19:39] <knome> micahg, yeah, but the gap existed on the old logo too
[19:39] <micahg> doesn't look like it
[19:39] <knome> huh?
[19:39] <knome> in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/logo_comparison.png ? :)
[19:40] <micahg> oh, yeah, on that one you can see it 
[19:40] <knome> yeah, it's a small one on both, but there is one on both
[19:40] <micahg> was looking at the website logo
[19:40] <knome> ah :)
[19:40] <knome> yeah, the website logo is actually the reason why we decided to change
[19:44] <knome> micahg, so, do you still think there new logo is weird?
[19:44] <micahg> yes
[19:44] <knome> i mean, there's some drawbacks on both ones..
[19:44] <micahg> but I've been using Xubuntu for 4 years and am very familiar with the old look
[19:44] <knome> is it about the whiskers, or the mousehead-shape?
[19:45] <micahg> both
[19:45] <knome> mmh
[19:45] <knome> any suggestions how could we make it less weird?
[19:46] <knome> for the mousehead, i don't think there's much to do except small changes to the shape, since the idea is to have a closed-shape logo
[19:46] <micahg> thinner whiskers, add back legs?
[19:46] <knome> would make the shape inside the circle smaller
[19:47] <knome> also, i suppose it would look weird to have legs but almost no body at all :)
[19:48] <knome> anyhow, do we think we're ready to vote?
[19:48] <knome> small changes are doable before uploading, i'll be working on this tomorrow anyway
[19:48]  * micahg seems to be alone in this view though
[19:48] <Unit193> micahg: I wasn't fond of it either.
[19:49] <knome> i could look about making the gap for whiskers bigger
[19:49] <knome> Unit193, and this is exactly why i asked you to say this earlier
[19:49] <micahg> I don't think the gap should be bigger, rather the whiskers thinned out
[19:50] <knome> mmh.
[19:50] <knome> i can look what i can do without making them disappear again on small sizes :)
[19:50] <knome> or, then we could just have two versions, but that's in a way suboptimal
[19:51] <knome> Unit193, do you want to express what *you* think is not right with the new logo?
[19:51] <Unit193> Not really, that's why I held my fingers, so to say.
[19:51] <knome> micahg, are you completely dissatisfied with the new look?
[19:53] <micahg> knome: idk, I'd probably get used to it over time, I just prefer something closer to the old one
[19:53] <knome> micahg, yeah. it's not that i don't like the old one, it's just a near-nightmare graphically to drop in to various places :)
[19:54] <micahg> knome: can we go the other way and pull the full mouse in?
[19:55] <knome> micahg, that makes it completely unrexognisable on small sizes
[19:55] <knome> micahg, which is why we didn't do that at 10.04, when we changed the logo the last time
[19:55] <micahg> what does upstream do about this?
[19:55] <knome> i suppose xfce uses the X from the logo
[19:55] <knome> and mouse only on bigger sizes
[19:58] <knome> micahg, do you think the whiskers are too fat in the website comparison already?
[19:59] <micahg> yes
[19:59] <knome> what about plymouth?
[19:59] <knome> imo they are quite right there...
[20:00] <knome> but maybe that's because it's inverted :)
[20:01] <knome> the actual sizes are pretty much the smae
[20:01] <knome> #action knome to look the whisker-size
[20:01] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to look the whisker-size
[20:01] <pleia2> that's my favorite action item ever
[20:01] <knome> hehe
[20:02] <knome> if there is nothing new to add to the discussion, let's vote yay/nay
[20:02] <knome> #vote New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1)
[20:02] <meetingology> Please vote on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1)
[20:02] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:02] <knome> +1
[20:02] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[20:02] <pleia2> +1
[20:02] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[20:03] <knome> mr_pouit, micahg, Unit193 
[20:03] <micahg> -1
[20:03] <meetingology> -1 received from micahg
[20:03] <Unit193> -0
[20:04] <knome> Unit193, i suppose -0 isn't +0 :D
[20:04] <knome> but mmh...
[20:04] <Unit193> +0
[20:04] <meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
[20:04] <Unit193> Meany...
[20:05] <knome> mr_pouit, you still lurking around or should we proceed?
[20:05] <knome> #endvote
[20:05] <meetingology> Voting ended on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1)
[20:05] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
[20:05] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:06] <pleia2> not exactly overwhelming support :) maybe a discussion for the list?
[20:06] <knome> pleia2, we need to push the changes this week, according to skaet, who's now on the chan
[20:06]  * pleia2 nods
[20:06] <knome> mr_pouit said earlier that he likes the new logo on plymouth
[20:06] <pleia2> ok
[20:07] <knome> also, ochosi would have given +1, if he was attending
[20:07] <pleia2> good enough
[20:07] <knome> (that's said at #shimmer though, but it's recorded)
[20:08] <knome> what ochosi also said is probably true; if we're changing the logo, we probably should do that with 12.04
[20:08] <knome> and i have to agree with that. pushing a new logo for LTS+1 is quite bland :)
[20:09] <knome> #info knome promises to work on any suggestions to make the new logo better tomorrow
[20:09] <knome> #subtopic PAE kernel
[20:09] <knome> okay, so non-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386
[20:09] <knome> was there some discussion people wanted to have about this?
[20:10] <knome> apparently not anymore... :)
[20:11]  * micahg wonders if Windows 8 supports non-PAE
[20:11] <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
[20:11] <knome> ouch
[20:11] <knome> heh
[20:11] <knome> well
[20:11] <knome> ubuntu desktop doesn't
[20:11] <knome> and i agree it makes sense to have a derivative that does
[20:11] <micahg> well, no ubuntu-desktop supports it, just not in the installer :)
[20:12] <knome> mmh, right
[20:12] <knome> but yeah, how do you install the system if the installer is PAE-only
[20:12] <micahg> as do we
[20:12] <micahg> install 11.10 or a netboot install
[20:12] <knome> yeah, but let's say 13.04 is out
[20:12] <knome> you don't want to install 11.10
[20:13] <knome> or even when 12.10 is out
[20:13] <knome> it doesn't make much sense
[20:13] <micahg> 13.04 probably will not have a non-PAE kernell, 12.10 might not either
[20:13] <knome> having non-PAE kernel doesn't do any harm, right?
[20:13] <micahg> knome: you install 11.10 and upgrade to 12.04
[20:13] <knome> i mean, you can always switch to PAE kernel after installation
[20:14] <micahg> 12.04 will probably be end of the line for non-PAE kernels
[20:14] <knome> that's a smaller bad than having to install+upgrade
[20:14] <knome> yeah, but otoh, 12.04 is LTS, so it makes sense to support non-PAE there
[20:14] <knome> if 12.10 is PAE-only, then it is, and we have to live with it
[20:14] <pleia2> it would be nice to have the same support as regular ubuntu in this regard
[20:15] <pleia2> so keep non-pae with lts, then drop it after
[20:15] <micahg> knome: well, if the installer work happens anyways and it won't break anything, I wouldn't mind shipping the non-PAE kernel
[20:15] <micahg> pleia2: the Ubuntu ISOs for 12.04 will ship the PAE kernel for i386
[20:15] <knome> micahg, we've filed a bug today and cjwatson is the assignee, and will work it out
[20:15] <pleia2> micahg: oh, oops
[20:15] <pleia2> maybe we should too :\
[20:16] <micahg> so, if it's not too much work and won't break anything, I don't mind either way
[20:16] <knome> pleia2, except in that case, those users with processors that do not support PAE will need to install 11.0 and upgrade to 12.04
[20:16] <micahg> knome: which is either a 10+ year old desktop or a 5+ year old laptop/netbook
[20:16] <knome> if it's too much work or breaks things, i'm sure we'll hear about this and can rethink
[20:16] <pleia2> knome: as I understand it, the number of users this impacts is on the low side (and it's not like we'll have a fleet of people installing xubuntu servers)
[20:17] <micahg> pleia2: right, that's why I'm ambivalent about the whole thing
[20:17] <knome> micahg, yes, but we say on our website that xubuntu works on older hardware too
[20:17] <knome> pleia2, the number of users who need alternate is on the low side too
[20:18] <micahg> knome: it will work :), just depends what you define as old, you can't run Xubuntu on a P1
[20:18] <pleia2> my p3 laptop won't run pae, but my p3 laptop also kernel panics when I look at it wrong
[20:18] <knome> micahg, but you do agree with me that we can use non-PAE if it just works? :)
[20:18] <knome> mr_pouit +1'd non-PAE
[20:19] <knome> he's going to love me for highlighting him so many times...
[20:19] <micahg> knome: yes, as those installinig 32 bit xubuntu vs 64 bit will probably have less than 3GB RAM
[20:19] <knome> okay, good
[20:20] <knome> #info cjwatson will look at using non-PAE kernel with xubuntu precise i386, knome to follow-up with him if problems arises
[20:21] <knome> so, now the old action items
[20:21] <knome> #action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in 
[20:21] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in
[20:21] <knome> carried on
[20:21] <knome> #action knome to design flyers
[20:21] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to design flyers
[20:21] <knome> carried on
[20:21] <knome> wallpaper is finalized
[20:21] <knome> madnick provided code
[20:21] <knome> shortcuts are in
[20:21] <knome> wallpaper is in the repo
[20:22] <knome> xfce package revs ok
[20:22] <knome> #action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs 
[20:22] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs
[20:22] <knome> #action pleia2 to gather content for flyers 
[20:22] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to gather content for flyers
[20:22] <knome> and wikipage is set
[20:22] <knome> #endmeeting
[20:22] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 14 20:22:38 2012 UTC.  
[20:22] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.moin.txt
[20:22] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.html
[20:22] <knome> thanks everybody for attending
[20:23]  * knome needs to lay on the sofa for a while
[20:24] <knome> i'll update the minutes after that
[20:25] <pleia2> thanks knome :)
[20:25] <Unit193> Great, thanks knome.
[20:31] <mr_pouit> (yeah, sorry, that was dinner time, a bit complicated to skip :P)
[20:31] <Unit193> Why would you?
[20:32] <mr_pouit> to vote during the meeting ;D
[20:32]  * mr_pouit hides
[21:10] <knome> minutes are up
[21:10] <knome> bbl
[21:20] <pleia2> tweeted