[10:06] <vibhav> The Americas board meeting is tomorrow , right?
[10:06] <vibhav> just wait
[10:06] <vibhav> nevermind
[17:01] <Gwaihir> #startmeeting Community Council meeting, agenda available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 15 17:01:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is Gwaihir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[17:01] <czajkowski> aloha
[17:01]  * pleia2 waves
[17:01] <cprofitt> hello
[17:01] <Gwaihir> #topic Community Council meeting, Agenda available here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <Gwaihir> hello everyone!
[17:01] <pleia2> welcome to your first meeting as a CC member, cprofitt!
[17:01] <cprofitt> thanks pleia2
[17:01] <Gwaihir> thanks all for being here
[17:02] <Gwaihir> so, today we have on the agenda the Americas Regional Board meet-up
[17:02] <Gwaihir> who do we have here from the RMB?
[17:02] <pleia2> o/
[17:03] <Gwaihir> ok, nobody else?
[17:03] <czajkowski> Pendulum: ??
[17:03] <pleia2> cyphermox?
[17:04] <dholbach> hiya
[17:04] <pleia2> greg-g also said he'd make it, but may be a few minutes late
[17:04] <Gwaihir> well, pleia2, floor is yours, do you have something in particular you would like to say?
[17:04] <YokoZar> Well, greetings pleia2 ;)
[17:04] <Gwaihir> #subtopic America Regional Membership Board meet-up
[17:05] <pleia2> in general I think things are going well, terms of severl of our board members expire in May so I think we're seeing some of the fatigue related to that
[17:05] <greg-g> hi there
[17:05] <YokoZar> Has the rate of apps changed during your tour?
[17:05] <pleia2> we now have a channel where members from all boards hang out, which has been super helpful in improving cohesion between the boards and recruiting volunteers from other boards as needed
[17:06] <YokoZar> It'd be interesting if we were getting more or fewer membership applications, for instance
[17:06] <Pendulum> Sorry, I'm here.
[17:06] <cprofitt> +1 YokoZar
[17:06] <greg-g> the rate of new member apps seems about consistent, during my term
[17:07] <pleia2> I've been on the board since they were created 4 years ago, if anything it's gone down some, but I think part of that is we've moved off some approvals to IRC and Forums in that time
[17:07] <pleia2> and developer membership board
[17:07] <cyphermox> I'm there, sorry, had wifi issues
[17:07] <Pendulum> I've only been on for just under a year, but I'd say they've generally been consistant in that time.
[17:08] <cprofitt> Have you have had any issues with verifying potential members work in certain areas of the community such as askubuntu
[17:08] <pleia2> cprofitt: we rely heavily upon testimonials for sections of the community or work that we may have trouble personally verifying
[17:09] <Gwaihir> is the IRC process for membership approval an issue, or is it easy to reach quorum?
[17:09] <pleia2> so we do sometimes have to ask people to come back with testimonials
[17:09] <pleia2> Gwaihir: it works fine for us
[17:09] <czajkowski> pleia2: does your board ever not meet quorum or do ye have enough members?
[17:09] <pleia2> last meeting we borrowed someone from the Asia/Oceania board
[17:09] <pleia2> but that's pretty rare
[17:09] <cyphermox> Gwaihir: quorum does not appear to be an issue, especially now that we notify across boards via the mailing list
[17:09] <cprofitt> What is the biggest challenge facing the RMB in the next cycle?
[17:10] <pleia2> again, with a bunch of terms expiring in May I think a couple people have kind of checked out early
[17:10] <pleia2> cprofitt: I don't really see any
[17:11] <cyphermox> making sure it remains clear what the expectations are for membership? but that's hardly a problem right now
[17:11] <Pendulum> For the board itself, the only thing I can think of is transition with the new members, but I don't see that being a problem either.
[17:11] <Gwaihir> cool to hear
[17:11] <dholbach> was missing testimonials the only problem which led to asking people to reapply?
[17:11] <pleia2> with my CC hat on, the Americas board is never wanting for applicants to be on the board, unlike the other two boards, so I think Americas is fortunate there
[17:11] <cprofitt> goog to hear pleia2
[17:12] <pleia2> (I think we had something like 10 applicants for the free spots last time!)
[17:12] <dholbach> nice
[17:13] <czajkowski> pleia2: nice to hear
[17:13] <greg-g> (sorry, had to  hold a fussy baby for s econd) re: verifying: I think the separate boards for IRC/Forum helps with that but for AskUbuntu, given the highly badge-centric model, it works OK, as long as there is evidence of good interaction with the wider community as well
[17:13] <Pendulum> I'd say missing testimonials is the most common reason for asking people to reapply, but we have also asked people to do more work or spend more time in the community, among other things.
[17:14] <greg-g> +1 to what Pendulum said
[17:14] <Pendulum> And then there are people that we suggest should apply through a different board
[17:14] <pleia2> g/ 51
[17:14] <pleia2> oops
[17:14] <cyphermox> Pendulum: +1
[17:14] <dholbach> what about people who just focus on one task and are less interest in joining LoCo teams for example? is that a concern?
[17:14] <YokoZar> I'd like to minimize instances of "wrong board" sorry...just makes us seem a bit bureaucratic
[17:14] <czajkowski> Pendulum: on those cases when they came back have they done the extra stuff that was needed or shown great collaboration with teams and gotten testimonals ?
[17:15] <cprofitt> How flexible has the RMB been in evaluating contributions in new areas of the community? Is there anything you can think of that can be done better in regards to incorporating new areas of community contribution?
[17:15] <pleia2> dholbach: not really, we tend to recommend joining locos when they are having trouble finding a community ("I can't get testimonials because I work by myself on $thing" for instance)
[17:15]  * dholbach nods
[17:15] <Gwaihir> YokoZar, might be an idea to have just one "board" visible to the users, but internally structured in a different way, by timezones
[17:15] <czajkowski> nods
[17:15] <pleia2> well, we always *recommend* joining locos because they are fun :) but we only recommend it as a way to help membership in the above case
[17:15] <greg-g> cprofitt: we've been pretty flixible, I'd say, but I'm biased, of course :)
[17:16] <czajkowski> YokoZar: in what case would you have a wrong board?
[17:16] <dholbach> I personally agree - LoCos *are* great :)
[17:16]  * cprofitt nods to greg-g 
[17:16] <cyphermox> cprofitt: we've granted membership on one or two cases based largely on AskUbuntu contributions, IIRC
[17:16] <Pendulum> pleia2: +1
[17:16] <YokoZar> czajkowski: Pendulum: And then there are people that we suggest should apply through a different board
[17:17] <pleia2> I think more generally the only major hurdle in the past year regarding "new areas" is our uncertainty over whether Unity is Ubuntu, or upstream
[17:17] <pleia2> but I think that was resolved in a satisfactory manner (and Unity does count)
[17:17] <greg-g> YokoZar: well, we don't want to make a determination on a person who does development only, that is better taken up by the dev board
[17:17] <pleia2> Upstart, Launchpad and others also fell in to the "upstream or not?" category
[17:18] <pleia2> but it's not hugely about "upstream or not" it's about "ubuntu community interaction or not"
[17:18] <cprofitt> cyphermox: good to hear
[17:18] <Pendulum> czajkowski: Generally they either come back the next month with testimonials and/or cheerleaders or take a few more months to do more work. We do get the occasional person who doesn't understand and reapplies without doing anything more, but it's not common.
[17:19] <czajkowski> nods
[17:19] <czajkowski> thanks
[17:19] <cprofitt> pleia2: I think upstream or not may be an issue for new people coming in to the community too... it is not often easy for new folks to know that difference
[17:19] <YokoZar> Especially in the developer case, the question of what's Ubuntu vs what's upstream sounds like it could get quite dicey
[17:20]  * greg-g nods
[17:21] <Gwaihir> well, everything seems to work pretty nicely here :)
[17:21] <Gwaihir> does anybody have other questions?
[17:21] <dholbach> I'm all set - I'm quite happy with what I've heard
[17:21] <czajkowski> nope am good thanks
[17:21] <cprofitt> I am good as well
[17:22] <Gwaihir> sweet!
[17:22] <cprofitt> It sounds as though things are running smoothly
[17:22] <greg-g> thanks all!
[17:22] <pleia2> thanks :)
[17:22] <cprofitt> thanks to everyone taking on the RMB role!!
[17:22] <Gwaihir> pleia2, greg-g Pendulum, thanks for being here today!
[17:22] <Pendulum> thanks
[17:22] <YokoZar> Indeed, membership is a fantastic part of Ubuntu
[17:22] <Gwaihir> lovely chat :)
[17:23] <Gwaihir> moving one, our agenda is quite empty, do we have any outstanding issue to discuss?
[17:23] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: we need to reply to the LC
[17:23] <dholbach> yes, we need to review the CoC changes
[17:23] <czajkowski> dholbach: did you reply to the membership mail?
[17:23] <cprofitt> +1 czajkowski
[17:23] <Gwaihir> ok, start with the reply to the LC
[17:23] <dholbach> czajkowski, erm which?
[17:23] <Gwaihir> #subtopic Reply to the Loco Council
[17:24] <Gwaihir> mail is about the rewrite of the LoCo approval page
[17:24] <Gwaihir> now, only cprofitt replied internally to the CC
[17:24] <Gwaihir> we need to review the edited page, and provide an answer
[17:25] <czajkowski> I'm also good with it helped to write it and am happy with the edits in it
[17:25] <dholbach> (ahhh ok, now - no, czajkowski, I didn't)
[17:25] <pleia2> the only real change from the CC perspective is the recommendation being changed from 4 months to 8 months
[17:26]  * cprofitt nods
[17:26] <pleia2> I think this is fine, when this was written 4 months was a much greater percentage of the life of Ubuntu
[17:26] <czajkowski> nods and locoteams were rather new then
[17:26]  * pleia2 nods
[17:26] <czajkowski> and we have more activities
[17:26]  * Gwaihir nods
[17:26] <cprofitt> everything else is a clean up -- and two pages will be replaced with one to avoid confusion
[17:26] <Gwaihir> #action CC needs to review the the LoCo approval wiki page and provide an answer to the LC
[17:26] <meetingology> ACTION: CC needs to review the the LoCo approval wiki page and provide an answer to the LC
[17:27] <Gwaihir> can we do it by tomorrow?
[17:27] <pleia2> I'll give my +1 now
[17:27] <czajkowski> I'm +1 also
[17:27] <cprofitt> I am also a +1
[17:28] <YokoZar> We have 3 members mia
[17:28] <YokoZar> we might want to wait a day
[17:28] <Gwaihir> I will read it tonight and reply to the mailing list
[17:28]  * cprofitt nods
[17:28] <cprofitt> that is fair
[17:28] <dholbach> if possible I'd like to read it first - I'm not quite sure what exactly changed and for which reason
[17:28] <Gwaihir> but from a fast view at the page, looks good
[17:29] <dholbach> I'll also do it tonight
[17:29] <dholbach> and reply to the mail czajkowski mentioned
[17:29] <pleia2> thanks guys
[17:29] <Gwaihir> cool
[17:29] <dholbach> sweet
[17:29] <Gwaihir> can we move to the next topic?
[17:29] <cprofitt> yes
[17:29] <czajkowski> sure
[17:30] <Gwaihir> #subtopic Review merge proposal to the CoC
[17:30] <dholbach> https://code.launchpad.net/~akgraner/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposedv2coc/+merge/97139
[17:30] <Gwaihir> has anybody had the chance to look at it?
[17:30] <Gwaihir> unfortunately, I hadn't yet
[17:30] <cprofitt> I did... it looked good to me.
[17:30] <dholbach> Amber's revision had a change missing which Matt Z put in some time ago, so I added that in my own branch
[17:30] <czajkowski> looks fine, although it's a bit long.
[17:31] <czajkowski> ahh shall review that
[17:31] <czajkowski> didnt see it missing thanks dholbach
[17:31] <Gwaihir> czajkowski, yeah, it is a bit long now
[17:31] <dholbach> in the merge proposal I added links to wdiffs, so you can see which words changed as opposed to seeing line changes (if that's helpful)
[17:31] <Gwaihir> wondering if people will really read it all...
[17:31] <czajkowski> I do think that's a bit of an issue as for starters the CoC isn't translated and I for one would love to see this happen somewhere
[17:31] <czajkowski> even on a wiki page so people could reference it
[17:32] <Gwaihir> dholbach, has a branch for that I think
[17:32]  * czajkowski hugs dholbach 
[17:32] <dholbach> but on the other hand many won't have to read the LCoC in their first days yet, but now that it exists
[17:32] <Gwaihir> at one UDS we were talking with david about that
[17:32] <dholbach> Gwaihir, yes, but dpm and I never finished it I think
[17:32] <dholbach> I can't remember what exactly the issue was with it though
[17:32] <YokoZar> Honestly I feel like I might still be able to cull it for wordiness
[17:32] <Gwaihir> dholbach, do not remember either
[17:32] <dholbach> maybe we should first concern ourselves with getting 2.0 out, then do the i18n bits :)
[17:33] <Gwaihir> might take a look for this UDS
[17:33] <YokoZar> when I write essays I come back to them 4 or 5 times over the course of many weeks and still find things to shorten them
[17:33] <Gwaihir> yeah, better
[17:33] <dholbach> YokoZar, if you could add a few ideas to the merge proposal that'd be nice
[17:33] <czajkowski> dholbach: aye my only conern with 2.0 is it's a tad long
[17:33] <YokoZar> Yeah, agreed
[17:33] <YokoZar> Will do dholbach
[17:33] <cprofitt> so I am clear this is in relation to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392976
[17:34] <dholbach> so it'd be good if we could all have a look over it again
[17:35] <dholbach> (myself included :-))
[17:35]  * cprofitt nods
[17:35]  * Gwaihir nods
[17:35]  * pleia2 nods
[17:35] <dholbach> that I think is all I had to discuss
[17:35] <Gwaihir> #action CC review merge proposal of the new CoC → https://code.launchpad.net/~akgraner/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposedv2coc/+merge/97139
[17:35] <meetingology> ACTION: CC review merge proposal of the new CoC → https://code.launchpad.net/~akgraner/ubuntu-codeofconduct/proposedv2coc/+merge/97139
[17:36] <Gwaihir> hmmm... was there something else we need to discuss?
[17:36] <pleia2> from me, just a quick additional thanks to akgraner for serving on the council, wrapping up her outstanding tasks and setting a good example by stepping down when she realized she didn't have the time for it
[17:36] <cprofitt> +1
[17:36] <czajkowski> reply to RMB candiate
[17:37] <cprofitt> great example of following the LCoC!
[17:37] <Gwaihir> +1 for akgraner
[17:37] <dholbach> yes, thanks alot for your work on akgraner!
[17:37] <Gwaihir> o/
[17:37] <Gwaihir> czajkowski, yep
[17:37] <pleia2> czajkowski: good catch, we discussed that all privately
[17:37] <czajkowski> Gwaihir: think that's it all tbh
[17:37] <Gwaihir> #subtopic Reply to RMB candidate
[17:38] <pleia2> I think the mailing list thread summed up our expectations well, we just need to draft a reply
[17:39] <cprofitt> +1 pleia2
[17:39]  * Gwaihir nods
[17:39] <Gwaihir> who would like to write the reply?
[17:39] <Gwaihir> at least draft it
[17:40] <pleia2> I'd rather it come from a CC member who is not also a membership board member (not me :))
[17:40] <Gwaihir> ;)
[17:40] <cprofitt> I can take that on
[17:40] <Gwaihir> awesome cprofitt
[17:40] <Gwaihir> thanks
[17:40] <czajkowski> pleia2: :)
[17:41] <Gwaihir> #action cprofitt to reply to the RMB email
[17:41] <meetingology> ACTION: cprofitt to reply to the RMB email
[17:42] <Gwaihir> if this is the last topic, and nobody would like to discuss about something else
[17:42] <czajkowski> all good thanks
[17:42] <cprofitt> I am set; thanks.
[17:42] <czajkowski> excellent chairing Gwaihir :)
[17:42] <Gwaihir> we just need to take care of the bureaucratic stuff
[17:42] <Gwaihir> thanks czajkowski
[17:43] <Gwaihir> who is going to chair next meeting?
[17:43] <czajkowski> ar we gonna try this rotation again this time properly :)
[17:43] <Gwaihir> why not :)
[17:43] <czajkowski> cool
[17:43] <czajkowski> so who's next after you
[17:43] <Gwaihir> maybe better set up a wiki page with the rotation thing
[17:44] <Gwaihir> by nick name, should be pleia2
[17:44] <czajkowski> sounds good, but with the exception of sabdfl as at uds he said he wouldn't be able to do it due to work
[17:44] <czajkowski> which is fine
[17:44] <Gwaihir> yeah, np
[17:44] <pleia2> Gwaihir: I can't chair
[17:44] <pleia2> (this meeting is during work for me, I can get pulled away at any time)
[17:45] <Gwaihir> pleia2, no worries
[17:45] <Gwaihir> we get back to this one later...
[17:45] <Gwaihir> who can update the wiki pages then?
[17:46] <pleia2> I can do it
[17:46] <Gwaihir> thanks pleia
[17:47] <Gwaihir> #action pleia2 to update wiki pages and reference links
[17:47] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to update wiki pages and reference links
[17:47] <Gwaihir> for the chair, I might to it again as well
[17:47] <Gwaihir> s/to it/do it
[17:48] <Gwaihir> if somebody else would like to do it at the last minute, I wouldn't block him/her :)
[17:48] <Gwaihir> so, be it
[17:48] <Gwaihir> #action Gwaihir to chair next time
[17:48] <meetingology> ACTION: Gwaihir to chair next time
[17:48] <Gwaihir> ok, that should be all folks
[17:48] <dholbach> awesome
[17:49] <cprofitt> thanks everyone!
[17:49] <Gwaihir> next meeting will be on 29th March, same time, same place as the last one :)
[17:49] <pleia2> thanks all
[17:49] <Gwaihir> thanks all!
[17:49] <Gwaihir> #endmeeting
[17:49] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 15 17:49:33 2012 UTC.
[17:49] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-15-17.01.moin.txt
[17:49] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-15-17.01.html
[17:49] <dholbach> thanks everyone
[17:49] <pleia2> Gwaihir: we only have IRC meetings 1st and 3rd Thursdays
[17:49] <pleia2> no meeting on the 29th
[17:49] <Gwaihir> oh... right
[17:49] <Gwaihir> I have to updated my calendar then
[17:50] <pleia2> we get a day off on 5 Thursday months :D
[17:50] <Gwaihir> sweet :)
[17:50] <Gwaihir> see you all in April then :)
[17:54] <czajkowski> :D
[23:42]  * vibhav waits
[23:42]  * skellat waits
[23:44] <jrgifford> skellat: howdy
[23:44] <jrgifford> what, four minutes until it starts?
[23:44] <skellat> jrgifford: Howdy
[23:44] <skellat> jrgifford: NTP claims 11 minutes on my end
[23:49]  * vibhav pokes meetingology 
[23:53] <vibhav> 6 minutes left
[23:55]  * utlemming waits
[23:59] <vibhav> It is 5:29 here
[23:59] <stringedluthier> here
[23:59] <wendar> o/
[23:59] <vibhav> o/