=== rdieter_afk is now known as rdieter
apacheloggersomeone give our logo something to eat02:00
apacheloggerit is too skinny to look good02:00
Darkwingapachelogger: What logo?02:10
apacheloggerthe circle thing02:10
DarkwingToo skinny?02:11
Darkwing... I still have the other blue one...02:12
DarkwingThe one from Lucid when we changed logos... how does one get that one?02:12
apacheloggercuz you have not been installing my superior new theme -.-02:12
apacheloggerwiki history I suppose02:12
apacheloggerwe definitely ahve it in the kds history02:12
apacheloggerthat not be the problem though02:12
apacheloggermaster sheytan made a version in gimp that made sense02:13
apacheloggernow he redid the thing in inkscape and it looks like the ungodly child of zoidberg and bender02:13
Darkwingapachelogger: You going to be able to make it to Oakland?02:14
DarkwingLooks better02:14
apacheloggerunfortunately not02:14
apacheloggeryeah, that latter one is with the gimp version02:14
apacheloggerthe former is the skinny thing02:14
DarkwingI have to call tomorrow and get my flight stuff figured out.02:14
DarkwingI wanna see the zoidberg/bender one02:15
apacheloggergimp apparently makes things bigger02:16
apacheloggerwe should tell the world02:16
apachelogger"edit yoru nakkid pics with gimp"02:16
DarkwingI wonder who all will be at UDS02:16
apacheloggerthat could become their new slogan02:16
apacheloggergimp - we make it look big02:16
apacheloggerDarkwing: mark hopefully :P02:16
DarkwingHAH! Mark. Yeah...02:17
DarkwingI wonder if he will try and pander to me again about what a great job Kubuntu is doing and what a valuable part of Ubuntu it is like he did at UDS-P02:17
apacheloggerhow the flip did gimp make that happen02:18
* apachelogger scales like a mad man in inkscape and doesn't get it to match the gimp version Oo02:18
DarkwingI don't use Gimp anymore.02:19
apacheloggerur fault then, only gimp makes things bigger02:19
DarkwingI use Inkscape like people use Gimp02:19
apacheloggergimp - size matters02:19
DarkwingIt's about pixelated images vs vector images.02:20
apacheloggerwhat good is a vector if it is a skinny one :P02:20
apacheloggeroh, I know how gimp did it02:20
apacheloggerthe drop shadow exceeds the actual dimension of the image02:21
DarkwingUngroup to base then you can alter it in Inkscape02:21
apacheloggernow since we have a drop shaddow that looks like it goes in the drop shaddow in that case actually is like the stroke of the gear parts02:21
apacheloggerhence if one places the original logo parts inside the gimp ones they pretty much match where the drop ends02:21
apacheloggerDarkwing: which reminds me that sheytan did mask on all 3 parts, so ungroup actually breaks evyerthing :P02:22
apacheloggergood thing yours truely knows how to replicate what sheytan did by reading the xml ^^02:22
apacheloggercode always wins02:22
apacheloggerI should totally become an artist02:24
apacheloggerhowever sheytan will have to redo the thing, I am not quite sure how he clipped the edge02:25
apacheloggerand now I crashed inkscape02:26
Darkwingapachelogger: Why not just take the existing SVG and recolor it yourself?02:42
apacheloggeryou realize that is more than recoloring? :P02:43
DarkwingOf course I do. ;)02:44
apacheloggerif you tell me how02:44
DarkwingYou are applying the mask to do what part?02:45
Darkwingthe worse part of loosing everything (Including backups) is you forget how much stuff you had that you are missing... like SSH keys02:45
JackyAlcine_Sooo true02:45
JackyAlcine_GPG keys, old passwords, everything.02:46
DarkwingHad everything stolen and backups went plooey due to Dell recovery02:46
apachelogger<3 dell02:46
DarkwingSooooooo, I'm starting from ground zero.02:46
apacheloggerthey put rubbish thermal jizz in my laptop02:47
DarkwingAnd cloud computing, here I come.02:47
apacheloggerDarkwing: the engraved part is masked if I read the svg right02:47
apacheloggeri.e. it is a stroke that is blured and then masked so that only the inner blur is visible02:47
DarkwingThankfully I've ben using IMAP for some time now.02:48
Darkwingapachelogger: Yeah, there are built in filters in Inkscape02:48
apacheloggerso which one do I use then?02:49
apacheloggersilly me03:00
kubotuapachelogger: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"03:00
apacheloggerFYI even03:00
apacheloggerDarkwing: it appears the paths in our original logo are not exactly precise either03:10
DarkwingI'll have to install inkscape and take a look.03:11
apacheloggerstroking them yields different parts Oo03:11
DarkwingI just did a few hundread images for the Southern California Linux Expo03:11
=== JackyAlcine_ is now known as jalcine
apacheloggeror maybe inkscape is being incorrect03:12
apacheloggerDarkwing: how would you combine object and stroke to get one object?03:13
* ScottK struggles not to imagine apachelogger stroking objects.03:14
apacheloggergood thing I put it that way ;)03:14
apacheloggerDarkwing: not finding a proper option I duplicated the object, then converted the stroke to a path and then applied path combine on original object and the stroke path03:16
apacheloggerthe only part for which this resulted in a path with sane nodes is the left03:17
Darkwingapachelogger: Lemme reinstall it so I can see what needs to be done to get that.03:17
apacheloggerthe other two have some weird mixture of object and stroke nodes03:17
apacheloggeroh oho03:18
apacheloggermy working copy has weird paths, the orginal combined version has alright ones03:18
apacheloggeroh no, nvm again03:19
apacheloggerthe original is not combined ^^03:19
apacheloggernow I broke plasma by pasting a snapshot03:19
apacheloggersometimes I wonder what life would be like if I were using usable software03:19
apacheloggersimplyfing a path in inkscape actually introduces more nodes!03:24
DarkwingIt's actually quite nice when you get used to it.03:25
apacheloggersimplyfing mean complify?03:25
apacheloggerI am not sure about that, why not call it complify? :P03:25
DarkwingI wonder how many ppl will be at UDS from Kubuntu.03:36
apacheloggerDarkwing: ask on the ml?03:38
apacheloggerDarkwing: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/03/16/plasma-desktopGM9738.png03:38
apacheloggerthat is closer to the gimp version, no?03:38
DarkwingThe one on the right is your new one?03:39
DarkwingI actually like it better.03:40
* apachelogger wonders whether it isn't still too skinny03:41
apacheloggerand crash again03:46
apacheloggerwhy this is fun03:47
apacheloggergetting there?04:01
=== jalcine_ is now known as JackyAlcine
=== JackyAlcine is now known as jalcine
DarkwingI'm getting a DNS error.04:05
apacheloggerDarkwing: with http://wstaw.org/?04:07
apacheloggerdantti: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/03/16/plasma-desktopdW9738.png that's what you had in mind, no?04:08
apacheloggerinstead of dots04:08
apacheloggeroh kwin04:08
apacheloggerthat one04:08
=== jalcine is now known as JackyAlcine
SteveRileyhey all... I'm Steve Riley, a mod on KubuntuForums04:11
Darkwingapachelogger: closer04:12
SteveRileyneed to report a curious bug about system sounds, but since it isn't related to one specific package, i need a suggestion on the best way to file04:12
DarkwingSteveRiley: Kubuntu sounds?04:12
SteveRileyyes. see http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?57819-Notification-Sounds-Disappeared-after-updates-to-KDE-4-8-104:12
apacheloggerDarkwing broke it04:13
DarkwingSteveRiley: Give me a moment.04:14
Darkwingapachelogger: Am I the new nixternal?04:14
Darkwingapachelogger: I AM MADE IT!04:14
DarkwingSteveRiley: I'll be right back, just a quick smoke and I'll see how the best way to move forward is.04:15
ubottuKDE bug 285028 in kdecore "Qt 4.8 QUrl.toLocalFile behavior change, impacts KUrl (and at least knotify)" [Normal,New: ]04:15
apacheloggerDarkwing: best way to move forward .... talk to dfaure and rdieter find out if that is going to be fixed for .2 if not ask them what the educated nixternal replacement is meant to do to fix this04:16
apacheloggeralso write a mail to the list to make sure people are aware of the issue 04:17
SteveRileyoh, interesting. i hadn't even thought to check kde bugs, since i figured this might have been a packaging problem04:17
apacheloggerif it were our fault it would be fixed already ;)04:17
SteveRileylol. 04:17
SteveRileyi can believe that!04:18
SteveRileyi was chatting with claydoh the other day about stepping up my involvement with kubuntu besides moderating the forum. what needs done that a non-developer can work on?04:19
=== JackyAlcine is now known as jalcine
=== jalcine is now known as JackyAlcine
=== JackyAlcine is now known as jalcine
DarkwingSteveRiley: Something you might want to train the kubuntuforums people is to check and use bugs.kde.org04:21
Darkwingapachelogger: righto04:21
apacheloggerDarkwing: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/03/16/plasma-desktoprW9738.png04:21
apacheloggerI figure it looks better because it is so pixly :P04:21
Darkwingapachelogger: Also, FYI, I'll be covering it at UDS but, this will be the last cycle of the kubuntu-docs package.04:21
DarkwingI like the one on the right :D04:22
apacheloggeroh yes, that version seems perfect now04:23
apacheloggernow the dots look weird ^^04:24
apacheloggerstupid dots04:24
SteveRileyDarkwing: i think we have an ancient post somewhere in the forum for how to report bugs. i'll search for and revive it.04:24
DarkwingSteveRiley: Thanks. Because most of the bugs "should" be handled upstream at bugs.kde.org04:25
Darkwingapachelogger: I'm getting that dumb DNS error04:28
apacheloggerclearly your intartubes are broken04:33
apacheloggerproportions are all wrong04:36
apacheloggerbut I think that approach needs major artistic vision first04:36
DarkwingI just looked at my clock... apachelogger, do you sleep?04:37
apacheloggermaybe I am sleep drawing? :O04:38
apacheloggerI should see a doctor04:38
apacheloggerwhat I find entertaining is that the out shadow makes the gear parts look bigger than the one with the in shadow04:40
DarkwingGetting there... the lower right seems to be off.04:40
apacheloggerthe part area in both cases is actually the same04:40
apacheloggerDarkwing: yeah, that is what I am musing about ;)04:40
DarkwingOh I know...04:40
Darkwing:P:P I'm here to annoy ;)04:40
apacheloggeras an engineer I can tell you that it is perfect :P04:40
apacheloggerit just happens to look odd to you04:41
Darkwingapachelogger: Where can I find version information for Python, gcc and glibc?04:43
* Darkwing slaps self04:45
ScottKI'm glad shadeslayer asked if I'd do another arm build of digikam _if_ the boxen were free because I had something I wanted t build first ...04:49
Darkwingwhat is the glibc for?04:50
ScottKman glibc04:51
apacheloggerthat be the version for broken framebuffer systems04:52
DarkwingWhy can't man display version numbers??04:52
DarkwingI'm gonna go file a bug somewhere for that. :P:P04:53
ScottKDarkwing: man pages can have version numbers in them and if they are provided, they are displayed.04:54
DarkwingScottK: ahhh, right. I should do this while I'm not half asleep :P:P04:55
DarkwingScottK: You coming to Oakland?04:55
ScottKDude, it's barely even dark where you are, how can you be tired?04:55
DarkwingIt's 10p and my kinda were up all night last night with stomach flu04:57
apacheloggerdark? what?04:57
apacheloggerit's just getting light Oo04:58
DarkwingIt's what... almost 5a there apachelogger?04:58
apacheloggercan you two please add the experimental ppa on a precise install and upgrade kubuntu-default-settings and plymouth-something and test the splashes04:58
apacheloggerDarkwing: s/5/6/g04:59
DarkwingSo you are UTC+1?04:59
apacheloggerin winter, yes05:00
apacheloggeru know, the splash for broken systems actually has nice minimalism to it05:01
* apachelogger ponders making that his default05:02
CIA-42[kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120316050523-1vk3dnnuqdgj02s1 * lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo/ (kubuntu_logo.svgz kubuntu_logo.png kubuntu_logo16.png) new logo for splash + srcs05:05
apacheloggerDarkwing, ScottK: installed the splashes yet?05:05
apacheloggerdo we even have ksplash-qml on the CD?05:06
Darkwingapachelogger: Not yet... working on something else...05:06
=== jalcine is now known as webjadmin_
ScottKapachelogger: No, but I did conclude my failed experiment and kick of shadeslayer's digkam build.05:06
=== webjadmin_ is now known as jalcine
apacheloggeroh shadeslayer is being inverviewed today05:06
Darkwingyeah... in like 10 hours IIRC05:07
apacheloggerI might have to revise my final question a bit05:07
CIA-42[kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120316051150-31goezv31fgbp38k * lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo/ (8 files) pngcrush++05:12
CIA-42[kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120316051601-ea0v6shxckyzx0zm * usr-share-kde4/apps/ksplash/Themes/Kubuntu/main.qml reintroduce fallback wallpaper loading05:16
CIA-42[kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120316052414-y5f5cstr00uup31a * usr-share-kde4/apps/ksplash/Themes/Kubuntu/ (Preview.png Theme.rc) update preview and description05:24
littlegirlHey there, I was chatting with Darkwing and he disconnected. I'm off to bed, and am hoping one of you can tell him thank you VERY much for all the help for me.05:32
CIA-42[kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20120316053142-331xh8csh02i8kvn * lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo/kubuntu-logo.script add kate modeline as it fails to highlight plymouth language (Which is like javascript, so we simply make it highlight that)05:32
apacheloggerlittlegirl: have a good night05:33
littlegirlapachelogger: Thanks - you, too, and please give him the message for me. (:05:33
apacheloggerDarkwing: Riddell: ScottK: I pushed the lastet version of the splash stuff to experimental this time also for oneiric https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+recipe/kubuntu-default-settings-plymouth05:36
apacheloggerpretty plz be trying it05:36
* jussi waves05:40
apacheloggerjussi: yo06:06
=== fenris is now known as Guest98977
jussiapachelogger: hello!06:19
jussiapachelogger: know any minions that want a packaging project? 06:19
jussiapachelogger: cause this is cool :) http://www.openoctave.org/oomidi_201106:19
jussiits kinda packaged for kxstudio, but no idea of the quality: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/openoctave06:21
shadeslayerapachelogger: dude, my GRUB looks horrible07:36
shadeslayerI can't read shit07:36
faboRiddell: pls, can you merge zanshin 0.2.1-1 from Debian07:36
* shadeslayer goes back to reading the Debian Policy manual07:38
shadeslayerQt 5 Alpha release this month btw07:46
tsimpson_I can't wait that long, I'm building it from git now :)07:48
bulldog98Riddell: plasma-active image works more or less08:47
Riddellbulldog98: :)09:43
Riddellbulldog98: what's the more or less?09:43
Riddellfabo: it needs a merge does it?09:43
bulldog98Riddell: it’s slow09:43
bulldog98the ui nearly does not react09:43
Riddellbulldog98: on what hardware?09:45
RiddellI found it ran decently fast09:45
Riddellmaybe it's a compositing issue?09:45
faboRiddell: zanshin needs a sync. do you need a sync request?10:05
Riddellfabo: yes a bug would help (the script needs it)10:06
Riddellrelease team meeting update: what was done this week?10:07
Riddellkubuntu active was activated10:07
=== fenris is now known as Guest77154
danttiapachelogger: no10:53
danttiapachelogger: I tought coloring the carved part with a white gradient10:53
danttinot raising the carved part10:53
danttiI think it would look better10:53
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Computing | 4.8.1 http://ur1.ca/8kalp | Precise: Feature Freeze -> Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4| http://ur1.ca/8kamo TODOs! | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/12.04-lts-announce | wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries | Next Meeting: 16th March 3.30 PM UTC | Milestoned beasties http://goo.gl/9iyUD
Riddellhttp://goo.gl/9iyUD is bugs milestoned for beta 2 and tagged kubuntu11:15
Riddellfeel free to add to it11:15
debfxlanding the kdm config changes before beta 2 freeze would be good11:17
debfxyofel: ^11:17
shadeslayerRiddell: could you please upload https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/digikam_2.5.0-1ubuntu2~ppa3.dsc ?11:30
Riddelldebfx: what changes are those?11:32
Riddellshadeslayer: what's new?11:33
shadeslayerRiddell: fixes arm/armhf builds and adds dh-apparmor to build depends11:34
shadeslayerfixes arm/armhf builds by not pulling in opengl libs11:35
=== amichair is now known as amichair_
debfxRiddell: restarting the x server after logout and something about input grabbing11:48
shadeslayerRiddell: heh, I also added a patch kubuntu_fix_arm_build.patch that should go into the changelog11:52
shadeslayerargh, it's already there, just ignore me11:53
* shadeslayer needs coffee11:54
BluesKajHey all11:55
apacheloggerso that wasn't me tempering with my grub configs?12:08
apacheloggershadeslayer: ^12:08
apacheloggerdantti: what color? there is no color12:09
danttiapachelogger: I know, but my proposal would be to make the carved part lighter not raised12:10
danttipretty much like painting with white color but has to be a gradient white to look nicer12:11
apacheloggerdoes not compute12:12
apacheloggertake the svg and make it happen :P12:12
ScottKshadeslayer: Almost.12:15
ScottKdh_install: kipi-plugins-common missing files (usr/share/icons/hicolor/*/actions/ogl.png), aborting12:15
ScottK(re digikam)12:15
shadeslayerapachelogger: huh? GRUB is utter shit right now, I can't read a thing12:16
shadeslayerScottK: ignore that, kipi-plugins-common is arch all and pbuilders build arch all packages by default on every arch12:17
shadeslayerI've talked about this before, and the package will build just fine on i38612:17
ScottKshadeslayer: OK.  Then I guess you win.  Are we ready to upload then?12:17
shadeslayerthat one12:17
shadeslayerppa2 had a extra line in the debian rules file that was not required12:18
ScottKRiddell didn't do it already?12:18
shadeslayerI don't know12:18
ScottKDoesn't appear so.12:19
shadeslayerapachelogger: the current grub theme is all sorts of crap12:19
shadeslayerapachelogger: I can barely read what's written12:19
apacheloggerwhat is the current gurb theme?12:20
shadeslayerlemme see12:20
apacheloggerwhat you be whining about?12:20
shadeslayerthe colors12:21
shadeslayerthey hurt12:21
apacheloggermake a picture12:21
shadeslayerI'll take a pic and show, give me a minute to reboot and everything12:21
apacheloggerless than a minute cuz I should have been leaving 10min ago12:21
apachelogger * Don't install firefox-kde-support anymore. The KDE integration patches12:22
apachelogger   have been dropped from the firefox package.12:22
apacheloggerthe ever degrading firefox ^^12:22
ScottKshadeslayer: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu.12:26
shadeslayerapachelogger: this : http://wstaw.org/m/2012/03/16/IMG_20120316_175309.jpg12:31
shadeslayerScottK: thanks!12:32
ScottKYou're welcome.12:34
apacheloggerthis is interesting12:36
apacheloggerit is iinteresting because one can set the background but not the font12:36
apacheloggershadeslayer: will have a look12:36
apacheloggerwe prolly should just make it blackkkkk12:37
shadeslayerI agree12:37
apacheloggerpeople who see that have failed in their quest for awesomeness anyway12:37
apachelogger-> uni12:37
shadeslayerdon't be back for the next 7 hours12:37
apacheloggershadeslayer: ok12:46
shadeslayerapachelogger: :P12:46
apacheloggershadeslayer: btw, does you like the splash?12:46
shadeslayerapachelogger: yes, it's awesome12:46
apacheloggershadeslayer: also does you see the kubuntu splashens in the ksplash kcm?12:46
shadeslayernow if only you could make it spin ....12:46
apacheloggerbecause I fear we do not ship ksplashqml by default12:46
apacheloggerwhich needs fix0ring12:46
apacheloggershadeslayer: define spin12:46
shadeslayerapachelogger: I'm in neon ...will test once in stable12:46
apacheloggermind me, from what I have seen the stable is just like neon :P12:47
apacheloggerplasma freezing on me, inkscape crashing on me, amarok crashing on exit in collection dtor, also phonon being broken and apparently randomly stopping amarok's playback12:47
shadeslayerapachelogger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaSg2rRj4HQ < Kind of like that12:48
shadeslayersee the ubuntu logo spinning/rotating at the end of the video ? Like that12:49
shadeslayerthis is pretty cool too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrvlgxqKVcE12:50
apacheloggerlooks silly12:52
apacheloggerlooks even more silly  with our gear things12:53
apacheloggerif they were an actual cog wheel that would work, but it aint12:53
shadeslayerhm, sheytan could come up with something :P12:54
apacheloggerone can come up with many things, but that doesn't mean they all make sense12:55
shadeslayer\o/ http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=digikam.git&a=commit&h=e0a2fcfb9f0bc75084e4bf01905524fd5e29edd612:55
BluesKajFinally fixed the esata to sata connection. There was small piece of plastic stuck in the mobo sata port that was preventing proper contact.trimmed it off with my trusty swiss army knife and Voila! Now I don'y have to suffer the USB 2 speeds when transferring files 12:56
apacheloggershadeslayer: you realize that because you were doing arm stuff you will now get a lot of arm questions?12:56
shadeslayeroh noes12:56
shadeslayerI know only bits and pieces12:56
apacheloggermore than rbelem then :P12:57
debfxyay, our imaginary digikam ARM users can now run the latest version :P12:57
apacheloggershadeslayer: it is either ARM or a lot about binary signatures12:58
apacheloggerI'll toss a coin I guess12:58
apacheloggerdebfx: I am not so sure they are imaginary12:58
shadeslayerapachelogger: ARM it is then12:58
debfxapachelogger: they are not even imaginary?12:59
apacheloggerthere is plenty of organizations that use kubuntu for their products which from what I have seen address a small margin market12:59
apacheloggerso just because *we* do not know about digikam on arm users, it does not mean there are none, in fact it is very likely that there are13:00
apacheloggerwith digikam being the greatest of all photo apps and arm being the greatest of all arches and kubuntu being the greatest of all linux distros13:01
apacheloggerit is a parade of greatness13:01
ScottKIt's definitely a parade of something.13:04
debfxagateau: do you mind if I put lightdm-kde into a kubuntu-packaging branch?13:10
RiddellScottK, shadeslayer: digikam still need doing?  (I got distracted)13:14
shadeslayerRiddell: already uploaded13:15
shadeslayerAltho, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=296141 needs a bit of attention 13:15
ubottuKDE bug 296141 in Portability "Make digikam compile on ARM" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]13:15
ScottKPlus it looks like the calligra failure on armhf was just archive skew.  Retried it.13:15
ScottKshadeslayer: Did you send your changes upstream?13:16
RiddellScottK: it was but I'm just about to upload it with transitional packages13:16
shadeslayerScottK: yes, see that bug13:16
ScottKRiddell: Oh.  Oops.  Already retried.13:16
shadeslayerI've gtg for a bit, will be back later13:16
Riddellshadeslayer: mind and be back in a couple of hours :)13:17
apacheloggerRiddell: is something important happening?13:22
Riddell"Next Meeting: 16th March 3.30 PM UTC"13:22
Riddellapachelogger: just a boring meeting, you can bring your pitch forks incase it gets messy13:22
apacheloggerah 3:30 utc13:24
* apachelogger remembered 3:30 cet and was worried he might have to interrupt his coding session ^^13:24
yofeldebfx: I wanted to enable it around sunday, or I'll forget it next week before beta freeze, I'm not yet clear on the input grabbing thing which I'll look at too this weekend13:24
=== greyback is now known as greyback|lunch
shadeslayerPitch forks? :O13:56
shadeslayerdid I mention telepathy-gabble is so awesome that they have ponies in their source code13:57
ScottKThis is part of the same telepathy stack that now when Ubuntu screws up a library transition, our stuff breaks now too?13:58
shadeslayertakes care of XMPP accounts and such13:58
ScottKThanks to that little misadventure, I now know more about the telepathy stack than I'd planned on.13:59
shadeslayerIt's a bit funky tho, if I send messages from Jabber to GTalk in rapid succession GTalk refuses my messages13:59
shadeslayerotoh I can send a large number of messages from GTalk to Jabber14:00
shadeslayerbut get this, If I use psi or irssi-plugin-xmpp ... there's no rate limit and GTalk accepts all messages14:01
ScottKThat's probably a function of Google's implementation.14:01
shadeslayerI'm not sure if its Google or gabble14:01
shadeslayermaybe google maintains a whitelist and implements rate limiting for everything else14:02
shadeslayermaybe its gabble ... can't say14:02
shadeslayerall weird and stuff, the jabber.org folks couldn't pin it down as well14:02
Riddellhmm shadeslayer's meeting clashes with the moved release team meeting14:20
Riddelloh well, two meetings at once, how hard can it be?14:20
shadeslayeruh oh14:20
shadeslayerI was here first, make them change the time! :P14:21
RiddellTonio_, fabo, debfx, apachelogger, NCommander, Quintasan, yofel_, ScottK 14:21
Riddell1 hour until shadeslayer meeting for kubuntu-dev14:22
* NCommander makes a load snore sound14:22
NCommanderer, what? :-P14:22
Riddellmeeting in an hour, you can go back to sleep :)14:22
* shadeslayer bribes NCommander with cookies14:22
* NCommander codes auto-NCommander which +1s everything14:22
shadeslayercookies, they work every time14:23
shadeslayerRiddell: http://paste.kde.org/441242 :P14:25
shadeslayerI wonder how many such bugs I can find in KDE14:25
=== greyback|lunch is now known as greyback
Riddellshadeslayer: what is that?14:27
shadeslayerRiddell: it's using a comparison operator instead of a assignment operator14:27
Riddellshadeslayer: yes it does look like it's doing the wrong thing14:27
Riddellshadeslayer: but what package is it from and is it upstream and do we need to upload a patched package?14:27
shadeslayerRiddell: konsole14:28
Riddellso it's probably been there for years14:28
Riddellshadeslayer: sent it upstream?14:28
shadeslayerjust emailed the konsole maintainer with a attached patch14:28
Riddellshadeslayer: is robert still maintaining konsole or someone else?14:28
shadeslayerI think Jekyll Wu is maintaining it now14:29
Riddellshadeslayer: e-mailing the maintainer is fine if we know it has an active maintainer but it's probably better to make a bug and attach so it doesn't get lost of the e-mail goes to someone without time to care14:29
shadeslayer( Looking at bug 296116 gives me the impression that he's the one maintaining it )14:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 296116 in IPython "Input to %timeit is not preparsed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29611614:30
shadeslayergood idea14:30
Riddellhe is listed as "bugs" in the about box so seems a good candidate14:30
shadeslayerI'll do that if I don't get a reply in the next 30 minutes14:30
shadeslayerbugzilla already has a bazillion bugs where everyone gets lost14:31
apacheloggerthe audacity to want to be equal to the likes of NCommander and Tonio_14:31
Riddellbug trackers can be dumping grounds too right enough14:32
apacheloggeraka not doing no nothing *fist waving and all that stuff*14:32
Riddellshadeslayer: the other way is just to get me to commit it, we'll do that if he doesn't get back to you14:32
shadeslayerRiddell: or .. I could push it myself :P14:32
Riddellapachelogger: if you think we should have a way of removing people from kubuntu-dev I hear we're got a kubuntu-dev meeting happening soon14:33
Riddellshadeslayer: indeed :)14:33
apacheloggerRiddell: no, what we should have is a  way to force people to do stuff :P14:49
Riddellapachelogger: yeah like NCommander could help me with this pandaboard that works with oneiric but not precice14:54
shadeslayerRiddell: heh, doesn't boot?14:56
ScottKRiddell: There's a long and well established tradition of Canonical abandoning support for arm hardware.  If you want stuff to keep working, install Debian.14:56
shadeslayerLike the raspberry pi14:57
shadeslayerIf only ARM was backward compatible14:57
Riddellshadeslayer: that's a bit unfair! it does have a chipset we don't even compile things for14:58
ScottKNo, the bigger issue in Ubuntu is sub-archs being added and dropped with great frequency.14:58
RiddellScottK: pandaboards in general work fine but this model seems to have some peculiarity that's broken14:58
ScottKI see.14:58
shadeslayerRiddell: but look at debian, they provide armel builds that will just work fine on the RasPi14:58
Riddellthe chipset is all good but something is making it read the disk as ext3 for no reason and that breaks something14:59
shadeslayerand they have armhf for newer boards14:59
Riddellshadeslayer: ubuntu isn't an embedded distro14:59
ScottKNeither is Debian.14:59
Riddellarmv6 is an embedded chip but that's not where ubuntu is at14:59
shadeslayerScottK: hey! you stole my line14:59
ScottK(there's a derivative called Embeddian for that)14:59
Riddellubuntu would be happy to have the buildds supplied and armv6 builds looked after of course :)15:00
Riddellbut until that happens we'll live with what canonical can do which is what they get funding for which is armv715:01
ScottKMy issue isn't the arm version, but the subarchs.15:01
ScottKMy stack of arm boxes won't run Ubuntu.15:01
shadeslayerScottK: so they're running debian right now?15:01
ScottKThey currently have a vendor kernel and Karmic/Maverick user spaces.15:01
ScottKshadeslayer: It's not pure Ubuntu.15:01
ScottKIn my copious free time I intend to switch them to Debian armhf as there's Debian kernel support for the hardware/sub-arch.15:02
faboScottK: which hw do you have?15:04
ScottKfabo: Efika mx smarttop15:04
fabowe have builds for efika15:05
ScottKYou mean linaro?15:05
ScottKThat would be my other option.15:05
faboI started precise based images this week (see my report)15:05
ScottKMaybe I'll do that instead.15:05
fabohwpack is missing but I can bug the right guy :)15:05
faboto make it happen15:06
ScottKGetting the smarttop's to boot to the SD card is a pain.15:06
shadeslayerapachelogger: coming to akademy?15:08
shadeslayerRiddell: no reply, I'm pushing the fix15:13
Riddellshadeslayer: that's only an hour or two you gave him!15:13
Riddellgo ahead and push if you're sure, but it's a risk15:14
shadeslayerah well, I'll wait then15:14
Quintasanuh here15:17
Quintasanso yeah, following up on xmpp15:18
Quintasanshadeslayer: nothing much, doing maths all the time to learn as much as possible15:18
shadeslayerQuintasan: any calculus in there?15:18
Quintasan48 days left15:18
Quintasanto exam15:18
shadeslayerah, trivial stuff then15:18
shadeslayer60 days till mien15:18
Quintasanwell, it seems trivial but if I do poor on that exam then no uni for me15:19
shadeslayerand then I'll be free from exams \o/15:19
QuintasanI'm not a math genious by any means15:19
shadeslayerQuintasan: heh, same here15:19
shadeslayerI *suck* at maths15:19
QuintasanI'm mediocre at it honestly15:19
Quintasanyofel_: ping15:20
shadeslayerRiddell: Jekyll replied15:20
shadeslayerI'm pushing it15:20
Quintasanshadeslayer: when is Akademy?15:21
shadeslayerQuintasan: 30th June onwards15:21
Riddellshadeslayer: push hard!15:22
Quintasanoh, after my exams15:22
Quintasanshadeslayer: Can one get sponsorship for going to Akademy or I need to work part time?15:22
shadeslayerQuintasan: yes you can, the first deadline is 1st April15:23
QuintasanI'll apply then, if not then I will go part-time for a month after my exam15:23
shadeslayermeeting in 5 mins people15:24
apacheloggerI am in the middle of taking jedis apart, that will take longa15:24
Quintasanurgh we need to slap p-n back in shape15:24
shadeslayerNooo ... not the jedis15:24
shadeslayerQuintasan: whats wrong with p-n?15:24
Quintasanyofel_: set an auto-bugger to Quintasan from the end of May onwards15:25
Quintasanshadeslayer: Well it's like, we need to check through build-logs to find if we need any new deps15:25
Quintasanfix fixable build fails etc15:25
RiddellNCommander: see what's wrong in this precise boot log on a pandaboard? http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/precice-arm-boot.txt15:28
RiddellNCommander: this looks weird "[    6.134063] No filesystem could mount root, tried:  ext3"15:29
shadeslayerMeeting time15:30
shadeslayerRiddell: ScottK apachelogger NCommander ping15:30
shadeslayerQuintasan: yofel_ ^15:30
RiddellTonio_, fabo, debfx, apachelogger, NCommander, Quintasan, yofel_, ScottK ping15:30
shadeslayerWiki Application here : https://wiki.kubuntu.org/shadeslayer/KubuntuDevApplication15:30
shadeslayerWiki Page here : https://wiki.kubuntu.org/shadeslayer/15:31
yofel_pong in a minute15:31
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
RiddellScottK: do you remember the quorum rules?15:31
Riddellshadeslayer: how do I find out when beta freeze is and what does it mean?15:32
ScottKRiddell: There's no quorum rule, there's a voting rule.  The minimum vote is more than 50% of those present and at least 3, so minimum number is 3 - 5 depending on votes.15:32
ScottKshadeslayer probably doesn't mind if apachelogger fell asleep anyway.15:33
shadeslayerRight, so at the start of every release we get a release page, for precise you have thi : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule?action=show&redirect=PreciseReleaseSchedule15:33
shadeslayerScottK: nope, not at all :D15:33
shadeslayerI just look up the dates on that page15:33
ScottKWhat's OK to upload during a freeze?15:34
shadeslayerAs for what it means, it basically means that we now have to stablize the archives and start fixing bugs15:34
shadeslayerScottK: Critical bugs that would make ISO's unbootable15:34
shadeslayeror stuff that would make your installer crap itself15:34
apacheloggerI told you I was right in the middle of a game, now I am all yours15:35
shadeslayeroh noes15:35
=== Quintasan is now known as trolllogger
Riddellshadeslayer: what's your favourite debian/rules build system?15:35
ScottKshadeslayer: What's the difference between a hard freeze and a soft freeze and when do you see them?15:35
* trolllogger whispers cdbs to shadeslayer15:35
shadeslayerRiddell: I'd have to say debhelper15:36
ScottKDon't all packages have to use debhelper?15:36
Riddellshadeslayer: which debhelper, there are 9 of them :)15:36
shadeslayerI started out when debhelper was introduced and cdbs was being deprecated15:36
RiddellScottK: not all, look at hello15:36
shadeslayerah, compat 7 and above15:36
* apachelogger has 26 questions and supposes people would not appreciate if he used all of them15:36
Riddellshadeslayer: well 7 is very different from say 915:36
ScottKRiddell: I knew that, it was a question for shadeslayer.15:36
=== trolllogger is now known as Quintasan
RiddellScottK: oh sorry15:37
apacheloggerRiddell: stop helping shadeslayer :P15:37
* apachelogger cherry picks question15:37
ScottKshadeslayer: Go back and answer my freeze question then.15:37
apacheloggershadeslayer: What does a deb file contain?15:37
shadeslayerScottK: sorry, don't know about hard freeze and soft freeze, but I'm guessinghere15:37
shadeslayerSoft freeze : You can upload stuff if the release team approves it15:38
=== apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Grilling of Rohan Muhahahaha | 4.8.1 http://ur1.ca/8kalp | Precise: Feature Freeze -> Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4| http://ur1.ca/8kamo TODOs! | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/12.04-lts-announce | wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries | Next Meeting: 16th March 3.30 PM UTC | Milestoned beasties http://goo.gl/9iyUD
shadeslayerhard freeze : You can't upload stuff, and you have to wait till archives open again15:38
ScottKIt's sort of the other way around.15:38
ScottKIn a soft freeze, the archive is in a normal state and devs are trusted not to upload wrong stuff.15:38
ScottKIn a hard freeze, it's frozen and only what the release team approves gets in.15:39
shadeslayerapachelogger: binaries that you can run , shared libararies, and conf files15:39
ScottKAlphas are soft freezes.15:39
shadeslayerhuh, I wasn't aware of that ...15:39
apacheloggershadeslayer: yes sure, but I mean technically15:39
apacheloggerwhat makes a deb file15:39
apacheloggerwhat is a deb file15:39
shadeslayerapachelogger: then there's stuff like post and pre installer files that are run before and after a package has been unpacked/installed15:39
apacheloggeractually that is a good one, let's start with What is a deb file technically.15:40
shadeslayerit's just a tarball that dpkg unpacks15:40
Riddellshadeslayer: or what's a good way to look inside one?15:40
apacheloggershadeslayer: is it a tarball?15:40
shadeslayerand then it has rules which allow dpkg to unpack it ...15:40
shadeslayerRiddell: dpkg --contents15:40
Quintasanshadeslayer: How do we maintain binary compatilbily between new versions of packages?15:41
apacheloggershadeslayer: that still doesn't answer the question... what is a deb file and what is inside it?15:41
shadeslayerapachelogger: more or less, it's not your conventional tarball, but has functions like 'unpacking'15:41
* fabo just joining15:41
Riddellshadeslayer: oh is that it, I always wondered, I just use lesspipe :)15:41
apacheloggershadeslayer: well, it is not a tarball :P 15:41
apacheloggershadeslayer: it is an ar archive :P15:41
Riddellapachelogger: one of them is a tar15:41
apacheloggernew things to learn everyday15:41
Riddellbut I never remember which15:41
apacheloggerRiddell: not the deb15:41
Riddellit's a tar inside an ar I think15:42
apacheloggershadeslayer: so what is inside this ar archive?15:42
Riddelloh um sorry15:42
RiddellI'll shut up :)15:42
apacheloggerRiddell: you are not being grilled :P15:42
QuintasanThe best meeting ever15:42
faboRiddell: the deb file is an ar archive ;)15:42
shadeslayerapachelogger: wait, so whats the difference between a archive and a tar?15:42
apacheloggerar is a format15:42
debfxRiddell: there is not that much difference between debhelper v7 and v9.15:42
apacheloggertar is a format15:42
apacheloggerthey are not the same15:42
apacheloggershadeslayer: so if you were to decompress this ar archive... what will you find inside?15:42
apacheloggershadeslayer: you may try to use ar to look at deb you have lying around ;)15:43
fabodebfx: I beg to differ :) (but I can be off topic)15:43
debfxshadeslayer: when you change the debhelper compat level, how do you know which changes in debhelper you need to be aware of?15:43
shadeslayerapachelogger: binaries, symlinks, stuff that dpkg places in /15:43
ScottKIn fact, when Ian picked ar, tar existed, but it was all new fangled and stuff.  ar was something everyone would have tools to deal with.15:43
debfxfabo: I meant how debian/rules looks like15:43
fabodebfx: ok, thanks for the context15:43
apacheloggershadeslayer: that is not within the ar15:44
ScottKFWIW, ark <packagename> is one of my favorite ways to look inside .debs.15:44
Riddellshadeslayer: how did you fix digikam?15:44
apacheloggershadeslayer: so within the ar is in fact one text file and two tarballs15:44
shadeslayerdebfx: I'd probably refer to the debian new maintainers guide to look at what has changed15:44
apacheloggershadeslayer: the text file defines the deb binary format of this file, one tar is control.tar and contains the actual packaging information and the other is data.tar which contains what you were talking aobut ;)15:45
shadeslayerapachelogger: but dpkg --contents foo.deb says thats what inside it15:45
apacheloggeryou are not listening to what I am trying to teach you15:45
apacheloggerthat is not the content of the ar archive15:45
Quintasanshadeslayer: it lists the files which are unpacked, not what the ar contains in reality15:45
apacheloggerit is the contents of the data.tar15:45
Quintasanit's just apachelogger nitpicking stuff15:45
faboshadeslayer: I don't think it's documented in debian new maintainers guide15:45
apacheloggerno, that is quite fundamental to how dpkg works15:46
shadeslayerRiddell: Well there were 2 issues in digikam, a) no opengl support on arm and b) methods returning doubles 15:46
shadeslayerapachelogger: eeep ... I knew that, I just thought you were only talking about data.tar15:46
apacheloggerRiddell: btw, if the binary format were to change the assumption that there are tarballs within the deb might not be true anymore :)15:46
Quintasan>Revision 4.02005-08-0915:46
Quintasancool story Harald15:46
apacheloggershadeslayer: I asked you what the contents of the ar archive is ...15:47
apacheloggerI consider this question dealt with15:47
apacheloggerdo we have other pending ones or can I continue? ;)15:47
Quintasanshadeslayer: You might want to answer my question at some point15:47
shadeslayerfabo: oh ... No idea then, I've only dealt with compat 7 so far, I've never handled a compat 8 or 9 package15:47
Riddellshadeslayer: how did you fix each of those?15:47
shadeslayerQuintasan: looking15:47
QuintasanHow do we maintain binary compatilbily between new versions of packages?15:47
faboshadeslayer: you can find it with man debhelper 715:48
apacheloggerQuintasan: that question is sloppy :P15:48
shadeslayerQuintasan: I don't see your question15:48
apacheloggerlet me try15:48
QuintasanLet me rephrase that15:48
shadeslayermy screen is full of orange15:48
apacheloggerbecause I have one along those lines15:48
apacheloggershadeslayer: What are reasons to bump a soversion? Do we have a system to detect ABI changes? Do we have a system to prevent ABI incompatibility despite upstream not changing the soversion? 15:49
shadeslayerRiddell: as for opengl, I just disabled opengl libs on arm and armhf, they were optional15:49
faboshadeslayer: what's symbol files and which document you'll recommend to read?15:49
shadeslayerRiddell: as for double I replaced double with qreal15:49
apacheloggerQuintasan: that covers your question I blieve?15:49
Quintasanapachelogger: PRECISELY15:49
Quintasanpun intended15:49
apacheloggerperfect :)15:49
apacheloggerQuintasan: as always ;)15:49
Riddellshadeslayer: how did you track down and fix that konsole issue?15:49
shadeslayerfabo: symbol files are files that contain library symbol files and are used by dh_makeshlibs to genrerate the values for shlibs:Depends15:50
shadeslayerfabo: as for what document to read, I read the dh_makeshlibs man page15:50
shadeslayerapachelogger: whenever upstream breaks ABI, it bumps its so version, 15:51
apacheloggershadeslayer: dh_makeshlibs reads the symbols from the binaries directly15:51
apacheloggershadeslayer: does it?15:51
Riddellshadeslayer: "whenever upstream breaks ABI, it bumps its so version" do all upstreams always do that?15:51
apacheloggeror rather15:51
yofelshadeslayer: can you be a bit more specific about how shlibdebs uses the symbol files? Where does it look?15:51
apacheloggerdo they?15:51
Quintasanright-o, stop the flood a little bit, let him answer some and let apachelogger copypasta some more15:52
shadeslayerRiddell: not necessarily, at times they break ABI and that causes all sorts of problems downstream15:52
Riddellnaughty upstream15:52
apacheloggershadeslayer: now please answer my questions, because they directly relate to what you just said :)15:52
shadeslayerRiddell: re konsole:I've switchec to clang which produces beautiful errors15:53
apacheloggeruh, that is creative15:53
shadeslayeryes, give me a second to reread the backlog :P15:53
shadeslayerapachelogger: so, ABI right?15:53
shadeslayerapachelogger: we track ABI using symbol files15:53
apacheloggershadeslayer: What are reasons to bump a soversion? Do we have a system to detect ABI changes? Do we have a system to prevent ABI incompatibility despite upstream not changing the soversion? 15:53
shadeslayerso for eg if upstream changes public symbols, we see a bunch of new symbols at the end of the build15:54
shadeslayerwhich is cause for concern since new symbols were introduced and/or old symbols were removed15:54
shadeslayerwe then go ahead and poke upstream as to what the hell happened15:55
shadeslayerand proceed to bump the so version ....15:55
yofelshadeslayer: are added symbols a reason to bump the ABI?15:55
shadeslayeryofel: not *every* time, I usually do it on a case to case basis15:55
apacheloggerQuintasan: mind how my questions cover everything that is getting asked regarding that topic ;)15:55
apacheloggershadeslayer: so when does the soversion *need* to be bumped?15:56
fabowell the concern is symbols were removed without so bump15:56
Quintasanapachelogger: I never bothered to create a copypasta database of questions :P15:56
shadeslayerapachelogger: well, usually what happens is that the so version is appened to a library15:56
apacheloggerQuintasan: it aint a database, it is a file called rohan.txt :P15:56
shadeslayerso when a build fails and you see the same library with a new soversion at the end of it, you bump it in the package as well15:57
yofelshadeslayer: no, what symbol changes *require* a bump of the soversion?15:57
* shadeslayer thinks for a bit15:57
Quintasanapachelogger: s/rohan/IamLazyAndEverybodyKnowsIt/g15:57
apacheloggershadeslayer: yes, but as upstream ... when do you bump15:57
apachelogger(this relates to the earlier conclusion that upstream likes to not bump soversions at times, despite it being necessary)15:57
ScottKand when is lethal force appropriate?15:58
apacheloggerScottK: lethal weapon?15:58
Quintasanshadeslayer: Which file from debian/ is your favourite?15:58
* Quintasan notes there is no right answer to that15:58
* apachelogger thinks there is15:58
faboQuintasan: funny question :)15:58
Riddellwhich do I have to look at closely as an archive admin?15:59
* fabo me too15:59
shadeslayerokay so, whenever public functions change, that would constitute a ABI breakage15:59
shadeslayerwait no15:59
apacheloggerRiddell: debian/compat, obviously, no?15:59
* shadeslayer rethinks that a bit15:59
shadeslayerI believe it has something to do with dpointers15:59
apacheloggeryes, but that is too detailed already16:00
shadeslayertrying to think back when I last did a soversion bump16:00
Riddelldon't try to understand binary compatiblity rules, you can't :)16:00
apacheloggeras a packager you care about symbols16:00
shadeslayerhmm ..16:01
yofelI believe we utterly confused him :D16:01
Quintasanyeah, really16:01
shadeslayeryeah, I'm a bit lost as to what exactly is it that you want about symbols16:01
apacheloggershadeslayer: let me give you an example ... there is a class Foo it has a function foobar soversion is 0 ... then upstream adds a function funbar and releases ...  then upstream removes funbar and releases16:01
shadeslayeryou have new symbols, and you bump the soversion16:01
apacheloggerwhat must the soversion be at least after the latest release?16:02
shadeslayer2 ...16:02
apacheloggernope 116:03
shadeslayerbeacuse adding funbar doesn't break compatibility?16:03
apacheloggeradding a function is binary compatible (with a whole set of exceptions of course, but generally speaking here)16:03
yofelshadeslayer: read full example again16:03
apacheloggerremoving a function however is definitely breaking the ABI16:03
shadeslayerderp @_@16:04
Riddellthat's a little unfair since adding a function can well break ABI as you just said16:04
shadeslayerthats what I always thought ^16:04
apacheloggerassuming the simplest example it cannot16:04
faboapachelogger: nitpicking, it can be 2. that's a so bump :)16:04
Riddellas a packager we don't care about the exact rules of c++ ABI, we just look at the .symbols files16:04
apacheloggerfabo: at least I asked16:04
apacheloggerit can also be version 30016:04
shadeslayerah, right, at max it can be 216:04
faboapachelogger: true, you made your point16:05
shadeslayeratleast it should be 116:05
apacheloggerI think we can move on from all this ABI mess16:05
apacheloggeroh no16:05
apacheloggerthe last important thing16:05
apacheloggershadeslayer: last question of my paste16:05
shadeslayerI thought it should be ideally 216:05
shadeslayerapachelogger: yay16:05
apacheloggerso we established that upstream sometimes does not bump the soversion even though they should16:05
apacheloggerwhat do we do?16:06
apachelogger(I am talking about core KDE specifically here)16:06
ScottKBack to my lethal force question, I see.16:06
shadeslayerwell, you add/remove new symbols and rebuild everything that depends on the lib16:06
apacheloggershadeslayer: does that change the soversion?16:06
shadeslayerbecause if you don't the packages still link to the old lib16:06
shadeslayerapachelogger: so version of the library? Nope16:07
apacheloggerso how does that solve the issue?16:07
apacheloggerupstream did not bump even though they needed to16:07
* shadeslayer thinks for a bit16:08
tsdgeosapachelogger: you rebuild everything and convince upstream not to do it again16:08
shadeslayerthats what I was thinking as well, but I think apachelogger is hinting at other stuff here :P16:09
Riddelltsdgeos: ssh it's for shadeslayer's exam!16:09
apacheloggeractually we have a better thing for core KDE :)16:09
tsdgeosRiddell: damnit :D16:09
apacheloggerever wondered about that package name? :P16:09
* tsdgeos hides16:09
Quintasanoh god this16:09
shadeslayerapachelogger: that's most interesting16:09
yofelit very much is :P16:09
apacheloggernotice how it matches the library soversion perfectly? :P16:09
faboit becomes tricky16:10
Quintasanthat one was a hell when doing gles stuff16:10
apacheloggerwell I think we can conclude the entire ABI business with the hint that shadeslayer should look a bit into the things highlighted :)16:10
apacheloggerparticularly why this package has such a funny abi name16:10
apacheloggerbecause it is very handy16:10
yofelshadeslayer: one more thing, what is the symbol file used for during the package build other than making sure upstream doesn't break the ABI?16:10
shadeslayeryofel: it generates the value of shlibs:Depends16:10
yofelshadeslayer: how does it do that?16:11
shadeslayerso that other stuff that uses that library can link to that library16:11
shadeslayeror rather16:11
shadeslayerany thing that links to that library pulls in said library when installing16:11
shadeslayeryofel: dh_makeshlibs ?16:11
yofelwell, it can do that from the library too, and from the auto-generated symbol file, no need to use the one you ship with the package16:11
yofelwhy is it useful for *dpkg-shlibdeps*?16:12
yofelwell, or dh_..16:12
shadeslayerI'm not sure what you're asking here16:12
* apachelogger points out that makeshlibs does not use the symbol file but gets the symbols directly from the binaries!16:13
yofelshadeslayer: hint: versioned dependencies16:13
shadeslayerapachelogger: right, dh_shlibsdeps uses symbol files ... argh16:13
Riddellwe should probably begin wrapping up soon16:13
* apachelogger still has 4 questions he'd like to ask ;)16:14
shadeslayeryofel: so that it can automatically depend on newest lib?16:14
yofelshadeslayer: read the symbols part of the dpkg-shlibdeps manpage, first sentence16:14
shadeslayerdpkg-shlibdeps remembers the (biggest) minimal version needed for each library16:15
shadeslayerwhen reading the symbols file16:15
apacheloggershadeslayer: What editor do you use?16:15
shadeslayerapachelogger: vim16:15
apacheloggerWhat language are debian/rules files written in? And does vim have highlighting for that language?16:15
shadeslayerapachelogger: make, and yes16:16
apacheloggerUpstream doesn't ship a manpage, so you write one, how do you install it via the packaging?16:16
Riddellshadeslayer: if you're running out of patience feel free to ask for a vote, the gambol is just have you convinced everyone who needs convinced :)16:16
shadeslayerapachelogger: dh_installman16:16
apacheloggersomeone read up on dh it seems ^^16:17
apacheloggerso, final one16:17
apacheloggerImagine, if you will... bulldog89 rewrote a lot of Ubiquity using QtQuick and refactored almost all the remaining code. It looks much hotter, has improved accessibility and from internal testing it seems that it works at least as good as the current version. A feature and UI freeze exception was already granted in Feburary. Release freeze is only a few days away and all Kubuntu devs are at Riddell's to attend a pirate themed party. There 16:17
apacheloggeris no time to waste and you need to decide whether you want to push this new thing in or postpone it.16:17
apacheloggerWhat do you do and how do you defend your decision when apachelogger comes back and starts whining about how your decision was not the right one.16:17
shadeslayeryou put it in debian/foo.manpages16:17
shadeslayerRiddell: nah, I'm good16:17
shadeslayerhah, I remember that one from yofel's interview16:17
LaibschI'm coming over from #ubuntu-bugs because I was surprised by one thing that I'd like to confirm.16:17
apacheloggerno it is a different one, similar scenario though ;)16:18
LaibschIs it true that you guys close valid bugs as invalid if you prefer to have them handled upstream?16:18
shadeslayeryeah ..16:18
ScottKLaibsch: Yes, but we're in the middle of a meeting right now.16:18
shadeslayerapachelogger: can I ask follow up questions?16:18
Laibschprocedure most everywhere else seems to be to leave it open until fixed in both ubuntu and upstream16:18
apacheloggershadeslayer: sure16:18
shadeslayerapachelogger: what kind of testing did it go through?16:19
ScottKLaibsch: Find someone to maintain all the bugs in LP and we'd be glad to do that (Debian Qt-KDE team does the same, BTW).16:19
shadeslayerdid it cover *all* cases that the current installer handles?16:19
shadeslayerwithout any crashes16:19
apacheloggershadeslayer: all devs tried it prior to leaving for the party and a public call for testing was done on the ml16:19
apacheloggerno negative feedback 16:19
shadeslayerI'd say it's good to go then16:19
Quintasanshadeslayer: so, which file in debian/ is your favourite?16:20
apacheloggernow the interesting part... why do you think so?16:20
shadeslayerhas loads of new features, specually a11y and has had no negative feedback, was tested widely16:20
shadeslayerQuintasan: hmm ... I'd say control16:20
QuintasanI though so, they are, well, so precisely constructed16:21
apacheloggershadeslayer: just to be sure... so you'd risk breaking the installer in the release incredibly close to release?16:21
apacheloggerQuintasan: and rules are not? :P16:21
shadeslayerapachelogger: but you just said it was tested properly and there was no negative feedback16:21
Quintasanapachelogger: look at files using qmake and then ask me again16:22
shadeslayerbut yes, I'd  be willing to take that risk16:22
=== JackyAlcine_ is now known as jalcine
apacheloggershadeslayer: well, there is no right or wrong here16:22
ScottKYou might want to know how it would affect CD size too.16:22
shadeslayerapachelogger: yep, but that's what I think, our current installer is ... well ... not as pretty as it could be16:22
* apachelogger wouldn't do it because he is reasonable certain that the lack of negative feedback is rather an indication of not very good testing rather than it being perfect software :)16:23
shadeslayerScottK: hmm, if it's written in QML, I think it'll be smaller16:23
shadeslayernot necessary though16:23
ScottKIt'd be good to know that though.16:23
apacheloggerwell, desinger files = xml = more text16:23
shadeslayerapachelogger: more certainly smaller than binary no?16:24
ScottKXML FTL.16:24
apacheloggerwell, I have all my questions answered unless I should start asking about udeb files... ;)16:24
ScottKshadeslayer: What's a seed and why do we care?16:24
* ScottK jumps in.16:24
apacheloggershadeslayer: we don't have binary in ubiquity16:24
apacheloggerwhich is why it starts so slowly16:24
shadeslayerScottK: okay, seeds are packages that go onto the CD16:25
shadeslayerseeds *must* be in main ( as of right now )16:25
ScottKSort of.16:25
ScottKSeeds have lists of packages.16:25
shadeslayerright, those packages go onto the CD and they must be in main16:25
ScottKWhat tool do we use to get from those lists to metapackage?16:25
ScottK(e.g. the seed doesn't list all the dependencies)16:26
shadeslayerI read about that like a year ago16:26
shadeslayerapachelogger: I'm surprised I remember that myself16:26
ScottKSo, let's say that since you just fixed up digikam, you've decided it really, really needs to go on the CD, what do you do?16:27
shadeslayerIt can't it's in universe :P16:27
ScottKThat can be changed.16:27
shadeslayerbut if I *had* to, I'd have to file a MIR16:27
ScottKNo, actually you wouldn't.16:27
shadeslayerget it into main, add it to the seed file, germinate16:27
ScottKIt's been in Main before, so a MIR isn't required.16:27
* apachelogger just wanted to say that :)16:27
shadeslayerbut the source changed ;)16:27
shadeslayeryou could have new potential security stuff that needs review16:28
ScottKSure, there are exceptions, but as a rule re-MIR is not required.16:28
shadeslayernew build depends ...16:28
apacheloggershadeslayer: by that standard every new version entering main would need a mir16:28
shadeslayerapachelogger: better safe than sorry imho16:28
ScottKOK, so now the CD is 30MB to big because you added digikam without removing anything else.16:28
ScottKWhat do you do next?16:28
Quintasanshadeslayer: feel free to answer that at the end: what's your workflow for new packages, let's say you have this new awesome app - QHaraldface which adds a spinning image of Harald wearing a trollface moving around your desktop, it uses qmake and you see there is a huge demad for it, how do you do it?16:29
shadeslayerhmm, drop stuff that's not needed16:29
apacheloggerif you remove more artwork I'll come after you with a franklinator16:29
apacheloggerFTR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy43iZCPeLI16:29
ScottKshadeslayer: There's a step you missed here I think.  If you're going to make a major change in the seeds, you really ought to discuss it with your fellow developers first.16:29
shadeslayerScottK: there's no right answer to that,  you have to make tough decisions as to what goes onto the CD16:29
* yofel needs to run, sorry (I'll leave it at +0, so it's up to the rest)16:29
ScottKRight, but don't make it by yourself.16:30
shadeslayerScottK: I assumed that was already done16:30
ScottKYou know what happens when you assume ...16:30
ScottKSo you change the seed, run the germinate update script, then what?16:30
ScottK(hint: what package are you changing?)16:31
shadeslayeryou respin the ISOs16:31
shadeslayerkubuntu-desktop I believe16:31
ScottKkubuntu-desktop is the binary.16:32
apachelogger(-desktop is a binary pacakage of -meta|16:32
shadeslayerah, ok16:32
shadeslayerI could probably use apt-cache show to figure that bit out16:32
ScottKshadeslayer: You should read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement before you touch any of this stuff.16:33
* Quintasan bookmarks that16:33
shadeslayerofcourse, I don't touch anything without consulting stuff16:33
apacheloggerQuintasan: nvm that you will not find it, google will help ;)16:33
Quintasanapachelogger: >implying I have more than 10 bookmarks16:33
shadeslayerI've realised that if I rush things I make mistakes16:33
shadeslayerprimarily why digikam took a week to fix16:34
apacheloggerQuintasan: if you are serious about bookmarking policy pages, then you have a lot more than 10 bookmarks :P16:34
ScottKAh.  Reminds me of my other question ...16:34
ScottKshadeslayer: What's the last thing you had uploaded and the sponsor found something significant wrong with it?  What did you learn from this?16:34
shadeslayerthat would be Quintasan16:35
shadeslayerbut he didn't find the problem16:35
shadeslayerit was fabo who found the problem  I think16:35
QuintasanWhich package are we talking about?16:35
shadeslayersec, let me check16:35
ScottKWhat was it?  What did you learn?16:35
shadeslayerit was ktp-accounts-kcm16:36
fabonot me then :) I didn't touched this one16:36
shadeslayerand the tar was tainted16:36
ScottKHow so?16:36
shadeslayerI used the wrong upstream tar16:37
shadeslayeroh wait16:37
Quintasanyeah, I remember that I built it with no problems16:37
shadeslayernot accounts kcm16:37
shadeslayerit was tp-qt416:37
shadeslayerthe problem was I accidently went to the telepathy-qt4 page whereas upstream now uses telepathy-qt16:37
shadeslayerit was debfx!16:38
QuintasanIt's not my fault then :P16:38
shadeslayerright, it was my fault :)16:38
Riddelldon't they use telepathy-qt4 which is renamed to telepathy-qt?16:38
shadeslayerRiddell: upstream is named telepathy-qt, source package is called telepathy-qt416:38
yofelback from mobile16:38
shadeslayer+ In debian/ubuntu16:39
Riddellanyway, that's over an hour16:39
RiddellI suggest we move to a decision16:39
* Quintasan hands yofel a spare battery16:39
Quintasanah yes, it's council vote or what?16:39
apacheloggerit is developer vote16:39
ScottKQuintasan: kubuntu-dev16:39
* shadeslayer grabs dinner16:39
* Quintasan can't remember that voing stuff16:39
apacheloggeryou did not read the intro apparently :P16:39
yofelHow do you feel about essentially having root permissions on a users system?16:40
ScottKshadeslayer: ^^^ come back from dinner16:40
QuintasanRarely do I have to vote.16:40
apacheloggerQuintasan: because you don't bring in minions16:40
shadeslayeryofel: godlike :P16:41
RiddellI'm +1 for decent knowledge and good application, but plenty more to learn so be cautious on the uploads16:41
* ScottK imagines apachelogger will -1 purely to keep the minion.16:41
QuintasanAre you implying we got no artwork from shaytan apachelogger ?16:41
apacheloggerQuintasan: no, in case you did not read the backlog, I was doing the new splash logo last night :P16:41
* ScottK +1 as well. Still more to learn (as do we all), but knows enough to be trusted).16:42
Quintasan+1 for shadeslayer, he is a good developer and gets his job done and learns from his mistakes (or my mistakes :P)16:42
apacheloggerQuintasan: we all learn from your mistakes :P16:42
Quintasanapachelogger: I'm not sure I want to see it ;P16:42
* ScottK looks at fabo, debfx, apachelogger, Quintasan, and yofel for votes.16:43
shadeslayerQuintasan: you'll have to, it'll be default :P16:43
QuintasanOh god,16:43
yofelI'll +1 for keen contributer and good general knowledge of how things are done (with lots to improve on though)16:43
ScottKBy my count we have 8 kubuntu-dev here, so one more +1 needed.16:43
ScottKThere we go.16:43
ScottKIt would still be good to hear from the rest of you.16:44
apacheloggerhard to decide it is16:44
apacheloggershadeslayer: quick question  in C is Array[] the same as Array*?16:44
yofelthe 1 is round(1 - 0.5 for the last answer) - please don't be *too* enthusiastic ;)16:45
ezjdAnyone knows status ARM image of Kubuntu/Kubuntu Active? I tried recent ones of Kubuntu image for omap4, but they all froze after some time, not like previous ones which are quite stable16:45
Riddellgosh, C, I can't remember the last time I had to care about that16:45
Riddellezjd: meeting, give us 2 mins16:45
shadeslayerapachelogger: could you give me a more specific example?16:45
shadeslayerchar foo[] and char *foo ?16:45
apacheloggershadeslayer: for example16:46
* Quintasan looks for his trollface.svg and wonder how to replace default splash logo16:46
=== vivek is now known as pvivek
Quintasankubotu: order party for everyone16:46
* kubotu is going to his secret storehouse to get party for everyone - might take some time.16:46
* kubotu is back and slides party down the bar to everyone16:46
apacheloggerQuintasan: /lib/plymouth/themes/kubuntu-logo/kubuntu_logo.png16:46
apacheloggersudo update-initramfs -u16:46
Quintasanapachelogger: how does one invoke party time in kubotu ?16:46
apacheloggershadeslayer: so, what's the word?16:46
shadeslayerapachelogger: huh? I'm waiting for your example ::P16:47
shadeslayeror did you mean char foo[] and char *foo  was the example16:47
shadeslayerI believe they're the same16:47
apacheloggeroh my16:47
apacheloggerFWIW the answer was wrong :P16:48
shadeslayerheh, foo is a array and *foo is a pointer to a string?16:48
apacheloggerthey can behave the same way but fundamentally are different data types ;)16:48
apacheloggeran array is always on the stack16:48
* Quintasan was about to type tha16:48
shadeslayerand *foo is on the heap?16:48
Quintasanpointer is on heap isnt it?16:48
apacheloggerwhereas a pointer may not eve be an array16:48
apacheloggershadeslayer: it may point to the address  of an array on the stack ;)16:49
Quintasanso pointer, is a pointer16:49
Quintasankubotu: order party16:49
* kubotu gives everyone a party hat and a hand full of conffeti.16:49
* kubotu turns on tha most funky party music as well as the all shiny disco ball.16:49
kubotuQuintasan: wanna dance with me? :-)16:49
* kubotu starts shaking her tight ass16:49
apacheloggerstill they are differnt in that an array is always a linear memory range of a known size e.g. you could sizeof the array and get the actual size16:49
QuintasanSo did shadeslayer make it into kubuntu-dev?16:50
apacheloggerages ago16:50
apacheloggerothers apparently do not want to vote16:50
ScottKYes, but we're still wanting to hear from debfx and fabo.16:50
Quintasanapachelogger: Change the topic then durr16:50
shadeslayerapachelogger: I was more of the opinion : char foo[232]; char *foo1; foo1 = foo;16:50
faboI vote +1, basics are there. but as mentioned by some, there's things to learn16:50
apacheloggershadeslayer: that is exactly the case where your pointer points to memory on the stack16:51
shadeslayerapachelogger: yeah, so, that's what I thought about when you asked the question ;)16:51
shadeslayerboth will behave the same in this case16:51
shadeslayer( when using with printf and %s )16:51
shadeslayerthanks everyone!16:51
shadeslayer:D 16:51
Quintasanso yeah, gratz shadeslayer 16:52
* apachelogger only asks because last night he and his mates noticed that in the C course at uni they tell students that an array and a pointer are all and the same16:52
* debfx emerges and votes +116:52
apacheloggerall +116:52
apacheloggershadeslayer is a great new member16:52
shadeslayeroh wow16:52
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Grilling of Rohan Muhahahaha | 4.8.1 http://ur1.ca/8kalp | Precise: Feature Freeze -> Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4| http://ur1.ca/8kamo TODOs! | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/12.04-lts-announce | wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries | Next Meeting: 16th March 3.30 PM UTC | Milestoned beasties http://goo.gl/9iyUD | welcome shadeslayer!
apacheloggercongratz and what not16:52
* Quintasan hands shadeslayer the Stick of Pointing Harald Around16:53
=== apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Rohan must read up on ABI and AR and DEB | 4.8.1 http://ur1.ca/8kalp | Precise: Feature Freeze -> Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4| http://ur1.ca/8kamo TODOs! | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/12.04-lts-announce | wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries | Next Meeting: 16th March 3.30 PM UTC | Milestoned beasties http://goo.gl/9iyUD | welcome shadeslayer!
faboshadeslayer: congrats!16:53
ScottKshadeslayer: Where are your minions?16:53
yofelAnd I'm off again, congratz shadeslayer and laterz16:53
shadeslayerI wish I could do this with my new found powers now : http://xkcd.com/797/16:53
ScottKNo, that's why we have archive admins16:53
shadeslayerdarn ...16:54
apacheloggeranyone took care of Laibsch in a query or something?16:54
shadeslayermy evil plan was thwarted 16:54
QuintasanScottK did but he departed16:54
QuintasanTo the lands of #ubuntu-bugs I presume16:54
apacheloggerwell yes, I mean, he did not ask a real question or anything, so I was wondering ^^16:55
ScottKapachelogger: I didn't do anything in a query.  Just what you saw in channel.16:55
apacheloggercurious visit then16:55
apachelogger<--- hungry16:55
* shadeslayer is waiting for someone to add him to https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev16:55
Riddelloh ezjd left16:55
apacheloggerRiddell: go do something16:55
apacheloggeralso :*16:56
Riddellapachelogger: like what?  this oneiric->precise upgrade says it'll take 6 hours on arm16:56
apacheloggersweet baby skywalker16:56
apacheloggerRiddell: add shadeslayer to the overlord launchpad team16:56
shadeslayerapachelogger: what game are you playing?16:56
ScottKshadeslayer: FYI, in addition to dpkg --contents, you should also know about debc (in devscripts) if you don't.16:57
shadeslayerapachelogger: where? How?16:57
apacheloggerthe intartubes16:57
shadeslayerplayable via a browser?16:57
apacheloggershadeslayer: ScottK: dpkg-deb is also an option16:57
apacheloggerlike 30gig game :P16:57
Quintasanshadeslayer: Don't go off playing with him, he should be working16:57
apacheloggerI am on a german server anyway16:58
apacheloggerno idea how that ever happend16:58
ScottKapachelogger: ark <debfile> is still one of my favorites.16:58
apacheloggerseems utterly silly given that I am up at night and sleep at day local time16:58
shadeslayeraw man16:58
apacheloggerScottK: aye16:58
shadeslayeronly windows16:59
apacheloggerever seen a good game work well on linux?16:59
Quintasan>mfw apachelogger has windoorz installed16:59
Quintasanapachelogger: Aion Online16:59
Quintasanor wait, Heroes of Newerth16:59
apacheloggeryou fail to see the words good and well apparently17:00
shadeslayerRiddell: lesspipe is cool!17:00
* apachelogger needs to move out and find food17:01
Riddellshadeslayer: no more fiddly commands to remember, it just does the right thing :)17:01
Quintasanapachelogger: It seems like you fail to comprehend the word good17:01
Quintasan+ aion and HoN work good17:01
Quintasanobviously not on an 6 years old machine17:01
apacheloggersomeone please get the ksplash qml stuff on the CD17:03
apacheloggerneeded for the new kubuntu ksplash17:03
Quintasanshadeslayer: 17:03
* apachelogger now really gooes looky looky for food17:03
shadeslayerI'll do it tomorrow17:04
apacheloggershadeslayer: oh yes, you do that, if you fail you get demoted again :P17:04
shadeslayera) No battery left, b) have to code a bit 17:04
shadeslayerlike commit/push stuff before I run out of battery powa17:04
shadeslayerbah, swotr is not even available for the xbox17:09
QuintasanRiddell: ezjd is here17:09
ezjdSo meeting finished?17:09
ezjdmy question is about ARM. the daily image freeze frequently  on omap4,17:11
ezjdand I am looking forward to a kubuntu active arm image17:11
shadeslayerezjd: iirc Riddell said that we'll focus on ARM after getting the i386 plasma active image right17:14
ScottKshadeslayer: Since you want to be MOTU also, please look at this and propose a solution, including packaging changes if you believe they are appropriate.  I'll sponsor changes, if any.17:16
shadeslayeruh, what should I look at? :)17:16
* shadeslayer looks17:18
ScottKshadeslayer: Also, we should discuss on #ubuntu-motu, not here.17:19
nigelbshadeslayer: Congrats!17:20
schnelleguys from time to time in kde 4.8.1 (oneiric backports), ark freezes when i click on "extract" and then error message appears: "kdeinit could not launch /usr/bin/ark"17:21
schnellewhere to report? upstream or lp?17:21
QuintasanI vote upstrem17:22
Quintasanthough kdeinit bugs are always a mystery to me17:22
Quintasanapachelogger: ^^17:22
ezjdshadeslayer: OK. Thanks. Then I will try it out by myself. I am wondering if most of update is shared in irc or email. I am unable to do irc a lot and kubuntu-devel mail list seems very quite.17:23
=== vivek is now known as pvivek
micahgshadeslayer: congrats on becoming kubuntu-dev :)17:26
shadeslayermicahg: thanks!17:26
apacheloggerQuintasan: hm?17:28
apacheloggershadeslayer: u here?17:28
apacheloggershadeslayer: what is a udeb file?17:28
shadeslayerthe power came back17:28
apacheloggerand what does it contain? 17:29
apacheloggerand how is it different from a regular deb file?17:29
shadeslayerI've never worked with them 17:29
apacheloggerany knows?17:29
shadeslayer"Some core Debian packages are available as udebs (“micro debs”), and are typically used only for bootstrapping a Debian installation"17:30
Quintasanudeb is a deb file but it contains only bare minimum17:30
Quintasanex. no docs17:30
Quintasanand is used for bootstraping debian17:30
shadeslayerbut but but17:30
apacheloggerQuintasan: so pbuilder uses udeb?17:30
shadeslayer udeb packages are not installable on a standard Debian system.17:30
apacheloggershadeslayer: that means?17:30
shadeslayeronly bootstrapping I guess17:30
Quintasanapachelogger: AFAIR no, I remeber it downloading regular debs17:31
Quintasanapachelogger: It can use them if you ask it do so IIRC17:31
apacheloggerbut doesn't pbuilder bootstrap? :P17:31
* shadeslayer wants to play swtor17:31
* apachelogger wants pizza17:31
shadeslayerapachelogger: I think that when you're creating the initial bootstrap env it downloads the udeb17:31
ScottKThey're used in the installer too.17:31
shadeslayer^ or in net installs 17:32
apacheloggermhh, yes, primary use case actually17:32
apacheloggershadeslayer: no, that is crap17:32
apacheloggeras you said, they are not inteded for actual debian systems17:32
shadeslayerapachelogger: okay, like I said, I've never worked with them17:32
apacheloggerthe installer itself needs to load an os and whatnot17:32
apacheloggerso he uses udeb17:32
apacheloggeralso installer plugins would be udeb17:32
apacheloggergenerally everything necessary for installation itself has a udeb package available17:33
apacheloggercurious how little we know about our systems ^^17:33
shadeslayerwell ... how does one specify buildd to make udeb packages?17:33
Quintasanshadeslayer: there is some option to enable that in pbuilder17:33
Quintasanpersia told me at one point17:33
Quintasanbtw. what the hell is with persia, noone has seen him since uds, right-o?17:34
apacheloggerpersia also told shadeslayer to read the make manual, which surely he didn't do yet17:34
apacheloggerlike 2 years later17:34
shadeslayerI understand alot about debian/rules tho17:34
apacheloggerwhat does .phony do? :P17:34
Quintasanoh god, this17:35
QuintasanI don't remember that one17:35
shadeslayerQuintasan: read up : http://linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2002/01/31/make_intro.html?page=217:36
shadeslayertells make that which targets are not files17:36
shadeslayerso if you have files with the same name, make doesn't confuse them with the targets17:36
shadeslayerand vice versa17:36
apacheloggeru know, back in the days of the motu one had to have at least one package with a plain rules file (no cdbs magic etc.) to get endorsed for motu status17:36
apacheloggerat least to get one from persia or me, other motus who shall remain anonymous were nicer :P17:37
* Quintasan wonders what happened to persia17:38
shadeslayerthanks to apachelogger I have a minor headache right now ;)17:38
shadeslayeroh yeah17:38
shadeslayerwe haven't seen him since the earthquake17:39
QuintasanHe wasn't employed by Canonical, was he?17:39
shadeslayerhe was a contractor for them iirc17:40
apacheloggerhe has a tendency to vanish at times17:40
apacheloggerkubotu: seen persia17:40
kubotupersia was last seen 4 months, 1 day, 17 hours, 5 minutes and 5 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)17:40
shadeslayeruh oh17:40
QuintasanWho/what is Coyote?17:40
shadeslayerthis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote ? :P17:41
Tm_Tthat has been his quitmessage for ages17:42
QuintasanI know what kind of animal coyote is but I can't imagine persia running away from a coyote in middle of Tokyo17:42
QuintasanAh, I see17:42
apacheloggernew horror movie17:44
apacheloggercoyotes in tokyo17:45
ScottKProbably enlarged by the radiation from the nuclear melt down.17:45
apacheloggeroh my17:45
apacheloggergodzilla vs. coyote17:46
ScottKReleased by the earthquake from their primordial prison ...17:46
apacheloggerthe script is basically writing itself17:47
shadeslayerapachelogger: oh btw, so lets say upstream updated the dpointer, that would not constitute ABI breakage because dpointers are meant to prevent exactly that correct?17:59
Riddellshadeslayer: yes with a dpointer you can add new things17:59
shadeslayerotoh if they add new API calls, that would constitute ABI breakage?17:59
Riddellbut stuff like virtual methods not17:59
RiddellKDE has a wiki page17:59
Quintasanshadeslayer: ping19:10
Quintasando you have regexp skillz?19:10
shadeslayer*very* basic regexp19:11
shadeslayerlike I know what * dos19:11
shadeslayerI can use awk a bit19:11
shadeslayerQuintasan: yofel or apachelogger might be able to help19:12
shadeslayerdoes Qt not support opengles on ARM platforms?19:17
shadeslayerwe have libqt4-opengl-dev but no libqt4-opengles-dev or libqt4-opengles19:17
yofelQuintasan: pong19:38
Quintasandah nvm19:38
Quintasangot it19:38
* ScottK wonders if shadeslayer broken anything yet.20:57
shadeslayerheh, nope, I'm coding20:58
koolhead17|awayScottK, heh20:58
koolhead17|awayRiddell, sorry i went away by time you replied yesterday :)20:58
Riddellhi koolhead17|away 21:02
Darkwinganyone else having issues with plasma freezing or being slow in beta 1?23:15

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