TheMusoScottL: If you feel switching back to generic is safer for now, re ubiquity etc, fine by me.00:43
len-nbScottL, don't know if you will see this tonight... just looking at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap04:08
len-nbmudita24 desktop file is now there can be called done, lightdm configured... is there more to do? It is no longer broken the bug #92242404:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 922424 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "lightdm won't start I have console(s) only" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92242404:10
len-nbis taken care of so this could be called done as well.04:10
len-nbScottL, I have also thought about your comment about loading a number of files to configure my workflow application. It would allow easy adding of workflow when a new workflow is added, that would be what you meant... I'll do that but keep the same format so that one file could have more than one workflow if needed.04:20
ScottLhi len-nb , i'm about to go to bed, i just about have the menu where i like it, should have pictures tomorrow, just fighting a few tweaks04:59
ScottLlen-nb, yes, i need to clean up the roadmap wiki, maybe this weekend05:00
ScottLi'm actually taking tomorrow (or is it today now :0 ) off from work05:00
ScottLi'll be spending part of the time with the family for spring break, but i should get some time tomorrow to work on stuff along with the weekend05:01
ScottLso, i think my next steps are complete the menu and push to bzr, work through your panel stuff (which shouldn't take near as long), and get the slideshow updated05:02
micahgScottL: BTW, you'll want to update the headers for lowlatency to the pae ones if they're not already05:02
ScottLi really, really, really, really, really, really, really want to get all that and a few more things done this weekend05:02
ScottLmicahg, oy vey, i had forgotten about that!05:03
len-nbScottL, fun stuff. 05:03
ScottLthank you very much, i'll do that now05:03
micahgjust for i386 though05:03
ScottLaye, i386 only, good point, i'm tired and probably wouldn't have thought of that :P05:03
ScottLi've already dropped kino, which brought in phonon, kde-runtime, konqueror, dolphin, and a bunch of other crap05:04
ScottLerrr, digikam05:04
ScottLnot kino05:04
ScottLcrasy stuff05:04
ScottLmicahg, so, i see 'linux-headers-lowlatency-pae:i386' as a package in precise, i need the full name including the ':i386' part, no?05:07
ScottLokay, just 'linux-headers-lowlatency-pae' then05:09
ScottLmaybe i should be more clear because i might be misleading you, uno momento, por favor05:09
ScottLthese two lines are currently there:05:10
ScottL* (linux-headers-lowlatency) [i386]05:10
ScottL * (linux-headers-lowlatency) [amd64]05:10
ScottLi plan to replace the first line with...05:11
ScottL* (linux-headers-lowlatency-pae) [i386]05:11
ScottL* (linux-headers-lowlatency-pae:i386) [i386]05:11
ScottLdoing it now then and going to bed, i've been up for almost 19 hours today05:13
ScottLmicahg, when the meta files are finally updated, you can use bug #956250 for the lowlatency headers in the changelog05:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 956250 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "default to lowlatency kernel for ubuntustudio builds" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95625005:20
ScottLokay, goings to bed now, for reals05:20
jussigood morning all, anyone about?05:27
jussiScottL: sure you arent here anymore? 05:29
astraljavajussi: I am now.09:43
ailoI tried installing only ubuntu-minimal just to see if there would be any difference in performance. None really, even though the desktop did interfere with jack11:08
ailoI'd like to pick the whole system apart somehow to find out what it is. Perhaps try an older kernel11:09
ailoTrying out alessios realtime kernel too see how it performs as well11:10
ailoMassive difference in performance :(. I say :(, because I really thought -lowlatency was enough. Still wondering how the changes can be so big. -generic was never fully up to par, but for me -lowlatency has been very reliable all up until now11:18
astraljavaailo: The kernel would my primary suspect for sure, as it experiences most changes of the involved software atm.12:28
ailoastraljava: It would seem that different kernels perform extremely well with -lowlatency configs, while others are crap12:29
ailoI mean, some perform extremely well..12:30
ailoI'm going to try building a 3.0 kernel to see if that makes any difference12:30
ailoWith -lowlatency configs12:30
astraljavaailo: I don't know kernels that much, but I do understand how crucial their performance (and configuration overall) is to this sort of work flow.12:31
ailoastraljava: My experience is that most of the time, everything everything else does not seem to influence performance at all12:31
astraljavaailo: Well, jackd obviously has a huge influence to it.12:32
ailoBut, I haven't really brought things down to a really basic and minimal level12:32
ailoastraljava: jackd1 and jackd2 are quite different too in some ways, and I don't expect either to have a negative influence on performance after an update. Would be very unlikely12:33
ailoWhile I'm doing this, I'm waiting to hear from the library. Going to have to study through all of high school math these next couple of months and do tests in order to be able to get into the university, which has been long overdue for me12:35
astraljavaailo: Sounds good, I wish I'd have time to carry my studies forward.12:36
ailoWhen the timing is right.. :)12:37
jussiastraljava: ScottL: I wanted to point this out: http://www.openoctave.org/oomidi_201112:44
ScottLjussi, they have done some great stuff, i've been keeping up with that loosely for over a year since i read an dave phillips article in linux journal about alex stone (a non linux guy) making his transition to linux on a mac12:51
ScottLalex stone is a classical composer and had certain requirements for number of instruments and sizes of samples/instruments in his libraries12:51
astraljavajussi: Noticed it on linkedin. Looks promising. Wish I'd have 10k, I could get the similar workstation than what'shername.12:52
ScottLhe was using reaper and there was a great (and long) article of alex's transition into linux and the struggles (and victories) with certain obstacles12:52
ScottLi think about a year go he started with open octave with another bloke and they have done some amazing work12:53
jussiwe should get it out of the kxstudio ppa and into the repos though...12:53
ScottLi've been curious how much coding alex does.  or if he's the "user" working with a "dev" to flesh it out12:53
ScottLjussi, that would be a major coup, indeed12:54
* jussi assigns... eerrr, who are our packagers now?12:54
astraljavajussi: You have to let go of such a mindset. Anyone can package for [ubuntu|debian].12:55
astraljavajussi: Well okay, maybe not you... *smirk*12:55
jussiastraljava: I still have ops here, I can SMITE you :P12:55
astraljavajussi: But yeah, I could talk to quadrispro, he could mentor me if I'd take on that task.12:56
astraljavajussi: But you wouldn't, would you?! *blink* *blink*12:56
jussimind, I have had packages accepted into the archive before ;)12:56
astraljavaFair enough.12:57
ScottLjussi, can you help set the topic back proper?  somehow i did that while talking to someone the other day13:00
jussiScottL: paste what you want the topic to be13:01
=== ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: this is the wrong topic
=== ScottL changed the topic of #ubuntustudio-devel to: Ubuntu Studio Development Channel | Ubuntu Studio code: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntust?gs first Sunday of each month
ScottLoh, that's probably how i did it then13:02
ScottLi'll fix the text later, i'd like to make a few changes to the menu settings that i realized how to fix this morning while i was half asleep laying in bed13:02
astraljavaknome: Yet another interview a week from now. Spare me a couch seat the night between 22nd and 23rd? What shift is your wife on then? Are you even in town? :)14:14
* astraljava wonders if knome already got a day job, he hasn't responded in 1h 26min, which is near-alarming considering he should be up by now. :D14:20
ailoJust trying out a -generic 3.0 version. Works pretty well14:51
ailoI'm having big doubts about the current kernels. 14:52
ailoScottL: Is it too late to change to an older kernel?14:52
ailoI think it might be the best approach14:52
holsteinailo: the *-lolatency one?14:52
ailoI would assume -lowlatency performs better than -generic, but even an older -generic is better than what we have now14:53
ailoThe ones we have now are not really usable14:53
holsteinin what way?14:53
holsteinRT? or other?14:53
ailoholstein: Have you tried the lates kernels?14:54
holsteini have used a few 3.x + ones14:54
holsteinnot with audio14:54
holsteinand i have only fired up the live CD pre lowlatency kernel and tested with my FW device14:54
ailoIt's a clear difference. 3.2 is not very usable for low latency audio (unless it's a realtime kernel)14:54
ailoAt least for me14:55
holsteinailo: you tried with FW and your internal devices?14:55
ailoOnly two so far, but just switching to an older kernel, on Precise, makes a huge difference14:55
ailoPresently running -generic, jackd -p 64, while compiling a kernel. No xruns14:56
holsteinTBH... ive been just fine with *-generic14:56
holsteini think its more about transitioning folks for me14:56
holsteinand trying to get a nice "middle of the road" kernel14:56
holsteinfolks dont try it.. they just see that we dont have an RT kernel and move on14:57
ailoI've been testing the difference between -generic and -lowlatency, and the results have clearly shown that -generic was not able to run stable at low latencies14:57
holsteini would have done hte same14:57
ailoSo, I wouldn't say -generic is fine14:57
ailoAt the moment I'm running a mainline kernel, not an Ubuntu one14:57
holsteinwell... im not using it on my production rig, thats for sure14:58
holsteinbut for "normal" use...14:58
holsteinwhatever that is14:58
ailoI switched to -p 32. Still no xruns14:58
ailoNever had this good results from a -generic kernel before14:58
holsteinyeah... thats where i hope we are heading14:58
holsteinby the time 16.04 releases, folks will *actually* believe it maybe ;)14:59
ailoholstein: Well, it's not heading that way, since 3.2 is totally unusable14:59
holsteini think thats temporary though14:59
ailoThere's no garantee that a kernel will become good for audio14:59
holsteini mean... what the hell do i know... but i think its just a glitch14:59
ailoThat's not their major preference, when they make it14:59
holsteini dont think the 2 are mutually exclusive though15:00
ailo-p 16 now..15:00
ailoIt's like a freaking -realtime15:00
ailoActually better than the -realtime 3.215:01
ailoWell, not really. Doesn't hold water when I start audio apps, but usually I would get xruns even without opening any apps15:03
holsteindepends on the apps too, for me15:04
holsteinsome of them are "friendlier"15:04
ailoArdour is the best performing in my experience15:04
holsteinardour occasionally kicks one up when starting, but yeah15:04
holsteinusually the best for me too15:04
ailoI had a lot of xruns at -p 64, so not usable15:05
ailoI'm compiling a -lowlatency 3.0 now, so let's hope that one performs better. It did very much so in the past15:05
holsteini havent ever compiled a kernel15:06
holsteinits one of those things i think i should do15:06
ailoNot that hard really. If you just recompile a kernel, it's super easy15:06
holsteinim not even sure how to start15:06
holsteinive read about it a lot15:06
holsteini need a .deb ;)15:06
holsteinsudo dpki -i whatever.deb15:07
holsteinthats about where i am15:07
holsteinanyways... im always trying to learn things15:07
ailoholstein: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel15:07
ailoThe interesting part is where you change the config15:08
holsteinyeah... that looks easy enough15:08
ailoThere are a lot of tutorials on the web, so if you want to do something specific, chances are there's a tutorial for that15:09
holsteini have a nice book to that has an overview and some screenies15:10
holstein"how linux works'15:10
holsteinim interested in "streamlining" a kernel15:11
holsteinfor certain hardware15:11
holsteinmaybe making tweaks for certain hardware or whatever if needed15:12
ailoThat would be cool, yes15:12
ailoFor one individual, you might need almost nothing of what the kernel offers15:12
holsteini have found that with some older hardware, the ubuntu kernels dont support it well15:13
holsteinin some cases at least15:13
ailoBut I think most of it isn't reducing performance though, so it's more about understanding what does, I'm thinking15:13
holsteinand i know its something i can "fix"15:13
ailoYou mean drivers?15:13
holsteinsince its all open and i can build whatever (in theory)15:13
holsteinailo: i think...15:14
ailoLike drivers for wifi and such?15:14
holsteinthat too.. but even just things that have been taken out15:14
holsteinsome old graphics hardware15:14
ailoSometimes I guess because of legal issues15:14
holsteinyup.. or just too old15:14
ailoRight. 3.0 -lowlatency built. Now to test it..16:27
ailoNope. Not better. 16:32
ailoThe only hardware change for me is my graphic card. I should try changing that, and also retry with an older Ubuntu to see the differences16:32
ailoholstein: If you get the chance, please do some quick testing to see how well jack plays on your hardware16:33
holsteinailo: will do16:35
ailohmm, not sure if the -lowlatency is configured properly16:35
ailoI just copied the config that came with the latest kernel16:35
knomeastraljava, hahah, we have guests16:37
knomeastraljava, let me check that dat16:37
knomeor *date16:37
knomeastraljava, evening + morning, so not the best. but i'll ask her. :)16:37
ailoScottL: TheMuso holstein: I believe the config for -lowlatency is actually the config for -generic16:38
ailocat /boot/config-3.2.0-18-lowlatency | grep PREEMPT16:39
ailo# CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU is not set16:39
ailo# CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set16:39
ailo# CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set16:39
ailoholstein: No reason to do any tests yet, then16:40
holsteinyeah... 16:40
ailoI'm going to recompile it and add the -lowlatency stuff to it, and see what that does to it16:40
ailoLater tonight. Will be back with results..16:41
ailoSometimes the obvious is a little too obvious16:43
astraljavaknome: No worries, I'll try some other friends. Thanks, though!17:47
ailoTheMuso: Who are so far involved in maintaing the -lowlatency?18:09
ailoBesides abogani and yourself18:09
astraljavaailo: I think I volunteered at some point when Scott asked.18:15
ailoastraljava: I'm just wondering who else might be changing the source so far18:22
astraljavaailo: Let me check from the repository logs.18:23
ailoI have volunteered to take over maintenance from abogani, but I will need to learn a few things first. It'll take me a few weeks18:23
ailoastraljava: Which repo? The git repo?18:23
ailoAh, the package log?18:23
astraljavaailo: The branch in LP where the package is rolled from.18:27
astraljavaSo far only Alessio and Luke have committed to it.18:27
ailoastraljava: LP?18:29
astraljavaErm... that's one of those Importer branches.18:31
ailoIt's the right package18:31
ailoI have a lot to learn about the whole package procedure when it comes to Ubuntu18:32
ailoOr, the right source :)18:33
astraljavaYeah but it's not the one where maintainers push.18:34
ailoI believe after Luke changed it, the lowlatency config was no longer used in the build18:34
astraljavaI'm a little bit behind when it comes to UDD, too.18:35
ailoastraljava: I believe the maintainers push to the git repo for the specific kernel18:38
ailoStill need to understand how they turn the source into a package18:38
astraljavaailo: No I meant the lowlatency maintainers for Studio, not just the kernel maintainers.18:39
ailoastraljava: Same thing18:39
ailoThere's a repo for lowlatency too18:39
astraljavaailo: Outside of LP? Oh, nice.18:40
astraljavaI don't understand why, though. Isn't it supposed to be just a configuration issue mainly?18:40
ailoastraljava: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git18:40
astraljavaailo: Yea, but that's for UKT only, isn't it?18:41
ailoastraljava: Only the /ubuntu kernels18:41
ailoabogani has been keeping his -lowlatency there the whole time18:42
ailoDon't know what the policy is, but there are a few custom kernels there18:42
ailoAh, Luke has made his own -lowlatency repo there18:43
astraljavaRight, good to know. (I'm afraid I was supposed to know that, due to said volunteering, but I suppose I was for back-up purposes anyway)18:43
ailoCrossing my fingers that the actual -lowlatency will perform as expected :P. Still building..18:46
ailoastraljava: Yeah, I don't really see why -lowlatency needs to be in its own repo either tbh18:52
ailoI guess cause UTK is not going to maintain it18:53
astraljavaThat's the reason, yeah.19:11
knomeastraljava, okay. if anything else fails though... :)19:19
astraljavaknome: In the case of emergency, I'll crash in at my brother's. :)19:21
ailoScottL: astraljava TheMuso holstein: -lowlatency rocks. Let's fix the config for it, and we have a killer kernel for audio19:30
ailoI'm just doing some testing, and I can instantly see that it's about as good as -realtime19:32
ailoSeems like qjackctl is totally tied into jackdbus? I don't understand. I thought I started jackd1 with it yesterday19:39
ailoI'm not able to start jackd1 with qjackctl. It tries to start jackdbus19:39
ailoI'm on regular Ubuntu btw19:40
astraljavaI can't really comment on that so far, my knowledge as a user of these apps is too limited.19:42
astraljavaI can look into it tomorrow, though.19:43
falktx__ailo: disable dbus integration in it's settings19:49
ailofalktx__: .config/rncbc.org/QjackCtl.conf?19:53
falktx__no, the GUI19:54
falktx__it's an option in the last tab19:54
ailoAh, I see it now19:54
ailoNew to me19:54
astraljavaailo: On that k.u.c/git page I see no other lowlatency repos except Alessio's and Luke's, so I'm still not sure where it's actually maintained, or how.19:59
astraljavaPerhaps commits are cherry-picked from those by the importer.20:01
ailoastraljava: abogani had his own repo for the launchpad kernels, and then I assume Luke started his own in order to make the source buildable for the main repo (something about symbolic links)20:05
ailoThe abogani tree is probably not updated anymore20:05
astraljavaOk. So probably Luke cherry-picks from others' repos if need be, then uploads. That would work.20:07
ailoastraljava: I think Luke based his on aboganis (not sure), while it might be better to either have a very light type of repo (like a patch for the standard ubuntu kernel), or an exact copy. At least that's what I'm thinking20:08
astraljavaailo: Yes, well I'm not sure how it works, but probably it would include most of Ubuntu's patches, except where it'd interfere with lowlatency configuration, and then just the different configuration. That's _my_ thinking, I'm waiting to be proven wrong.20:10
knomeastraljava, whatever goes. planning to have any free time?20:16
astraljavaknome: I can, if there's something interesting. There would be a cool gig to go to, but I most likely don't have the cash.20:21
knomeastraljava, what gig?20:21
astraljavaPain of Salvation on Saturday evening.20:21
knomethat's not going to be cheap, not at all20:21
astraljavaIt's not that much, 22 €, but in my situation, I don't think I can shelve that much.20:22
knomehmm, that's less than i thought. i was thinking 30€+ ...20:22
astraljavaThey're not that popular.20:23
knomemmh. but they're not finnish :)20:23
astraljavaSure ain't.20:23
knomeyeah, that brings some extra to the ticket prices20:24
astraljavaDepends. I'm pretty sure Stam1na costs a lot more than most of the swedes I'm listening to.20:25
knomeprobably, i don't know much about the metal scene20:25
astraljavaIt's not the most expensive genre, how could it be. :)20:25
knomeyeah. probably not. no grand pianos to fly around.20:26
knomebtw, lol, do you agree with wife's brother on this metal aphorism: if it has synth, it's melodic20:27
astraljavaSort of. Usually it means that. It does not rule out melodic metal without synths, though.20:33
astraljavaAnd please do note that melodic metal does not equate not-grunting-vocals. :)20:38
knomeyeah, i know, but i don't completely agree with the aphorism either...20:39
astraljavaWhy, do you have contradicting examples?20:41
knomei can't name any, but i know there is20:41
astraljavaLike I said, it usually means that, but it's not fool-proof either.20:46
astraljavaBut then I haven't heard most of the metal bands in the world, and certainly don't even listen to that many of what's left on a regular basis either.20:47
ailoastraljava: I guess the trick is to know if and which patches would interfer. So far it seems to me it's mostly about the kernel version itself + the lowlatency config21:01
len_Hmm, no 32 bit build today.21:04
ailoholstein: -p32 -r48000 for an hour or so. Playing rakarrack. No xruns. 21:43

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!