[00:06] <mhall119> jcastro: dude, that's going to be a great success story
[00:06] <mhall119> are you going to set them up to scale on-demand when they get high traffic and everthing?
[00:17] <bkerensa> jcastro: lol no worries
[00:17] <bkerensa> jcastro: saving OMG how?
[00:18] <bkerensa> I wonder why they didnt redirect their DNS to a splash page somewhere :P
[00:18] <bkerensa> with a 301
[00:18] <bkerensa> OMG is going to taking a SERP beating
[02:06] <nigelb> mhall119, jcastro - http://www.peppertop.com/greys/2010/02/ubuntufied-flying-object/
[02:14] <mhall119> nigelb: lol
[02:15] <nigelb> quick! change the tag line!
[03:03] <popey> woah, link to my blog at the end of that
[03:19]  * nigelb blinks
[03:21] <nigelb> ha
[03:32] <jcastro> mhall119, almost done
[03:32] <jcastro> man
[03:32] <jcastro> what a horrible mess
[04:01] <nigelb> jcastro: what happnened?
[04:18] <jcastro> he migrated hosts
[04:18] <jcastro> and like, had no clue how to set it up
[04:18] <jcastro> so we just deployed it on aws using juju
[04:19] <nigelb> o_O
[04:19] <nigelb> anyway, epic juju win
[04:19] <jcastro> man
[04:19] <jcastro> our wordpress and mysql charms are for chumps
[04:19] <jcastro> we need to optimize them
[05:03] <bkerensa> jcastro: He didnt know how to do a Wordpress Install?
[05:03] <bkerensa> seriously
[05:03] <bkerensa> :(
[05:04] <bkerensa> epic so bad
[05:04] <bkerensa> jcastro: ^ yes they are
[05:04] <bkerensa> jcastro: Uhh you might want to have him Submit a rdns request :P
[05:05] <bkerensa> http://ec2-23-21-149-239.compute-1.amazonaws.com/ <-- omg
[09:24]  * popey wonders what he'd have to do to get jcastro to jujuify the ubuntu uk podcast website ☺
[11:56] <jussi> can anyone explain to me the idea that bug 958384 is invalid because it needs discussion? I dont think the fact it needs discussion means it isnt a bug...? :/
[11:56] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 958384 in libreoffice "Libre office default style settings are poor." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958384
[12:37] <czajkowski> jussi: it's an opinion then
[12:41] <jussi> czajkowski: I dont think the fact of it is disputed by anyone, just that how to solve it needs discussion.
[12:45] <czajkowski> jussi: but the discussion is pointed to a ml
[12:45] <czajkowski> which imo is a better place than bugs tbh
[13:36] <AlanBell> yeah, but it is nice for the bug to exist so it can be fixed by a commit at some point
[13:57] <AlanBell> nigelb: do you know about boot to gecko?
[13:57] <nigelb> yeah
[13:58] <nigelb> you can clone gaia and run it on your browser.
[13:58] <nigelb> probably only nightly though.
[13:58] <AlanBell> how about on my galaxy s2
[13:59] <nigelb> oh, you can probably run the whole thing. I don't know how far it is though.
[13:59] <AlanBell> ok
[14:00] <nigelb> I can check with someone on monday
[14:02] <AlanBell> looking at the roadmap it might still be a bit early to jump in
[14:07] <mhall119> jcastro: are you going to guest-post on OMG about getting them back up?
[15:40] <jcastro> mhall119, I just blogged it on mine
[15:40] <jcastro> and will syndicate on cloud.u.c
[15:40] <jcastro> and probably make an OMG! specific one
[16:09] <nigelb> jcastro: hey, how did you copy the data around?
[16:09] <jcastro> rsync
[16:09] <nigelb> of the mysql data files?
[16:09] <nigelb> I'm surprised it took that long then.
[16:10] <nigelb> oh wait, it's between a different provider and aws. Nevermind.
[16:18] <jcastro> yeah
[16:21] <cjohnston> what happened to OMG
[16:21] <cjohnston> did I miss something?
[16:21] <nigelb> It was down for 3 days. jcastro called on the power of juju to fix it. :D
[16:21] <cjohnston> ic
[16:40] <jcastro> mhall119, hang with me here
[16:40] <jcastro> mhall119, ok so he's working on the charm now
[16:40] <jcastro> and we'll redeploy to m1.smalls
[16:41] <jcastro> do you know if you can move a bucket from one person to another?
[16:43] <mhall119> jcastro: I don't, sorry
[16:55] <mhall119> jcastro: what is the juju bootstrap node for?  Surely you don't need a dedicated instance just to use juju
[16:55] <jcastro> it runs the zookeeper
[16:55] <jcastro> but we can move that to run on the same instance as the proxy
[16:55] <jcastro> we just can't right now until next week
[16:55] <jcastro> as the feature hasn't landed
[16:56] <jcastro> but once it lands you could run everything on one node if you wanted like how AlanBell would want
[16:57] <AlanBell> I would be interested to know if things are actually faster or slower on one node vs 4 nodes
[16:58] <jcastro> one big node vs. 4 smalls?
[16:58] <jcastro> yeah
[16:58] <AlanBell> think I would bet on a single node being faster than having a database on a separate node to the application, and without an extra proxy jump
[16:59] <AlanBell> or all on one small vs all on 4 smalls
[16:59] <jcastro> I am reasonably confident that this will be cheaper than his colo set up
[16:59] <jcastro> the problem for OMG being on only one (or say, one large or medium) is then we wouldn't be able to grow and shrink on demand
[17:00] <jcastro> The biggest issue right now is apache serving up all those images
[17:00] <mhall119> AlanBell: I'd expect better performance with MySQL on a separate node
[17:00] <jcastro> and getting that to S3 asap
[17:01] <AlanBell> mhall119: depends how chatty the database and the application are I guess
[17:02] <AlanBell> the main thing to do is avoid using the database at all and use wp-supercache or something
[17:03] <AlanBell> if you are hitting the db, you want it fast and close, so multiple network requests to get stuff doesn't sound like a good plan
[17:04] <mhall119> I think Wordpress defaults to MyISAM, which is pretty darn fast
[17:04] <mhall119> plus MySQL does query caching
[17:05] <mhall119> jcastro: Elastic Load Balancing costs $0.025/hr, and supposedly does auto-scaling too, which might work better for them than haproxy
[17:06] <jcastro> yeah ryan pointed that out to me
[17:07] <mhall119> you might have to make custom OMG images though, for that to work
[17:07] <mhall119> it would be awesome if Amazon supported juju charms for this stuff
[17:07] <jcastro> yeah plus, I'd like to give him some options to not be AWS specific
[17:08] <jcastro> we have to be AWS specific on the storage for now
[17:08] <jcastro> but it'd be nice to say ... in a year he finds a nicer price on rackspace or a local ISP for instances
[17:08] <jcastro> and just redeploys there.
[17:08] <jcastro> or bare metal if he wants to colo again
[17:08] <mhall119> true, being able to quickly redeploy somewhere else is a nice option to have
[17:09] <mhall119> though not all will support S3, so that's something to consider in your wordpress-omg charm
[17:09] <AlanBell> I would love to build servers using juju as a standard practice, but it just chews up too many instances
[17:10] <jcastro> one more week
[17:10] <jcastro> one more week
[17:10] <jcastro> i've been aching for it too
[17:10] <jcastro> an extra instance is a deal breaker.
[17:10] <jcastro> especially since you also can't say "juju I want an m1.small for you, an x1.large for wordpress, and an m1.medium for mysql" yet.
[17:10] <jcastro> but next week we get all of that.
[17:11] <jcastro> unfortunate timing
[17:11] <nigelb> I want to say, here's an m1 server. Install wordpres, mysql, and apache on it.
[17:11] <nigelb> Not spam 4 servers for that.
[17:12] <AlanBell> exactly
[17:12] <jcastro> right
[17:12] <nigelb> *spawn
[17:12] <jcastro> We don't do that until next week
[17:12] <nigelb> one week!
[17:12] <AlanBell> then one day when that isn't enough, split it out smoothly
[17:12] <nigelb> I'll take that as win.
[17:12] <jcastro> right.
[17:12] <jcastro> believe me no one is aware of this pain more than juju folks
[17:12] <nigelb> I will check this out when precise releases.
[17:13] <nigelb> I expect all of this would be fixed then.
[17:13] <jcastro> indeed
[17:13] <mhall119> one more week?
[17:13] <AlanBell> if we can do a juju based openerp install on one instance, that can be scaled up to lots of instances then that would be a big win
[17:13] <nigelb> finally a tool that's not in ruby.
[17:15] <jcastro> AlanBell, actually just last week someone submitted openerp
[17:15] <jcastro> mhall119, yeah, the feature is called "constraints", it's all reviewed and ready to land.
[17:17] <AlanBell> so they did, old version though
[17:17] <jcastro> no worries
[17:17] <jcastro> we can easily make that pull trunk
[17:17] <jcastro> in fact that's what marco's working on for the wordpress charm
[17:17] <jcastro> it stupidly pulls the archive version
[17:17] <jcastro> which is basically shipping the old one that doesn't upgrade ootb
[17:18] <jcastro> boo...
[17:18] <AlanBell> openerp 6.1 has slightly different install routine as the webserver now runs in-process
[17:19] <jcastro> would you be comfortable reviewing the charm?
[17:20] <AlanBell> yeah, or I might hand that over to TheOpenSourcerer
[17:22] <jcastro> nod
[17:23] <nigelb> I don't even know why we should have wordpress in the acrchive.
[17:24] <jcastro> the juju charm store isn't active yet, so it's not obvious to people
[17:24] <jcastro> that with charms
[17:24] <jcastro> you don't have to care about the archive
[17:24] <jcastro> we'll have fresh wordpress for the life of 12.04
[17:26] <jcastro> mhall119, how typical
[17:26] <jcastro> the comments on facebook are talking about unity.
[17:27] <marcoceppi> nigelb: I said the same thing :)
[17:27] <nigelb> jcastro: obviusly. facebook crowd isn't known for maturity :)
[17:28] <nigelb> marcoceppi: It is a bigger security hole :P
[17:31] <AlanBell> I totally don't get Facebooko
[17:42] <s-fox> o/
[17:50] <jcastro> ok let's do math
[17:50] <jcastro> ~16gb of traffic so far since last night
[17:50] <jcastro> so, 12 hours worth
[17:51] <nigelb> wtf, 16GB in 12 hours?
[17:51] <nigelb> no wonder you want his images moved to s3.
[17:51] <jcastro> it's only a cent cheaper
[17:51] <jcastro> still
[17:51] <jcastro> at 11 cents, it's $100 a month
[17:52] <jcastro> that's $316 a month
[17:53] <nigelb> how much did he used to pay?
[17:53] <jcastro> lol
[17:53] <jcastro> 200 pounds
[17:53] <jcastro> which right now translates to
[17:53] <jcastro> $316 a month
[17:53] <marcoceppi> ha!
[17:53] <nigelb> hahaha
[17:53] <jcastro> that's sunday traffic
[17:53] <jcastro> let's assume he's busier
[17:53] <jcastro> and double the traffic
[17:54] <jcastro> it's $416
[17:54] <jcastro> ah bummer
[17:55] <jcastro> the price only goes down to .09 a gig when he tops 10TB.
[17:55] <jcastro> ok am I reading this wrong
[17:56] <jcastro> the data out of S3 is the exact same price as EC2, 12 cents
[17:56] <jcastro> that can't be right
[18:22] <AlanBell> gosh
[18:23] <nigelb> I bet rackspace is cheaper.
[18:24] <AlanBell> this is what most of our hardware is http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex5
[18:24] <nigelb> ha, hetzner :)
[18:25] <AlanBell> we slice those up using KVM into quite a few VMs, about 10 per host
[18:26] <nigelb> Manually?
[18:26] <AlanBell> yeah, we wanted to use the eucalyptus stuff but that required an additional host as a manager
[18:27] <nigelb> nice
[18:27] <AlanBell> so it is just KVM, and I use the virt-manager thing to poke at them and spin up new ones etc
[18:29] <AlanBell> would love to do it in a more buzzword compliant manner, but cloud stuff is massively more expensive
[18:29] <nigelb> heh, yeah.
[18:32] <cjohnston> What makes AWS better than say rackspace?
[18:33] <nigelb> AWS has more features
[18:33] <nigelb> Also been around longer
[18:33] <nigelb> and more datacenters
[18:33] <AlanBell> it is from a company that real people have heard of too
[18:34] <nigelb> lol
[18:34] <cjohnston> When did AWS come out?
[18:35] <nigelb> 2002.
[18:35] <cjohnston> I know that there is no direct price comparison because the sizes are different, so I'd have to do math
[18:37] <marcoceppi> I've also never gotten along with anyone from Rackspace
[18:37] <cjohnston> lol
[18:37] <cjohnston> I have a few good friends who are with Rackspace.. They all started with Slicehost.. but are now at RS
[18:37] <nigelb> soren is a nice guy AFAIK.
[18:37] <cjohnston> to me, when looking at AWS to setup, it seems overwealming
[18:38] <nigelb> but then he no longer works at rackspace.
[18:38] <nigelb> cjohnston: It's dead simple actually.
[18:38] <marcoceppi> cjohnston: juju, duh :)
[18:38] <cjohnston> lol
[18:38] <cjohnston> juju is brand new
[18:39] <nigelb> cjohnston: the button clicks are not too complicated.
[18:39] <cjohnston> but for me, I run everything on a 1gig cloud server at RS.. $0.06/hr... I don't need multiple isntances or anything like that.. I run multiple blogs on it, I get IP addresses as needed..
[18:39] <nigelb> RS is *too* simple for me to run anyhting on it professionally.
[18:40] <cjohnston> I guess I like the fact that its nice and simple
[18:40] <nigelb> I'm talking about DBs that are 20 GB in size. etc.
[18:40] <marcoceppi> Each provider has it' use case
[18:40] <nigelb> For personal use, I'd probably trust rackspace than amazon.
[18:41] <nigelb> It is cheaper.
[18:41] <cjohnston> I'm just trying to figure out, because I *have* to learn to use amazon, should I learn it and move my stuff over..
[18:42] <cjohnston> RS seems to have more DCs.. they have 8
[18:43] <cjohnston> a little less spread out.. but still comparable
[18:43] <nigelb> huh?
[18:43] <nigelb> does RS let you select which data center to use?
[18:44] <cjohnston> hrm.. I guess for cloud servers they are still in DFW
[18:45] <jcastro> among traditional hosts Rackspace (at least in the US) is one of the more dominant ones
[18:45] <jcastro> if anyone can compete with AWS it's them
[18:45] <jcastro> but they needed openstack for that
[18:45] <nigelb> YEah
[18:45] <nigelb> Not yet there.
[18:45] <nigelb> I waiting for them to have openstack.
[18:45] <jcastro> they have a cloud thing
[18:45] <jcastro> but it's not openstack
[18:45] <nigelb> not as great as amazon yet.
[18:46] <nigelb> not as many features.
[18:46] <jcastro> It's pretty much a monopoly
[18:46] <nigelb> yeah, sadly.
[18:46] <jcastro> however HP's Public cloud is in beta
[18:46] <jcastro> as openstack matures everyone will just start selling instances
[18:46] <jcastro> the same way they sold VPSes and shells
[18:46] <nigelb> oooh. that should be interesting
[18:46] <nigelb> is the HP thing openstack?
[18:46] <jcastro> It is
[18:47] <jcastro> on ubuntu
[18:47] <nigelb> \o/
[18:47] <jcastro> if openstack had an equivalent to s3 stuff that was solid
[18:47] <jcastro> like a storage solution
[18:47] <jcastro> we could then have juju just generically support storage
[18:47] <jcastro> and the charms wouldn't need to be s3 specific
[18:48] <nigelb> there's still stuff that can do something like that
[18:48] <jcastro> then you could just move to whatever hosting provider you want
[18:48] <nigelb> glusterfs?
[18:48] <jcastro> gluster and ceph
[18:48] <jcastro> I expect storage to be the big topic this year in openstack
[18:54] <popey> jcastro: I am getting a tomcat message from omgubuntu.co.uk
[18:55] <jcastro> DNS is out of date for you then
[18:55] <popey> ah
[18:55] <jcastro> try privacy mode in your browser
[18:55] <jcastro> and try again
[18:55] <jcastro> you might be caching the old 301 redirect
[19:01] <Daviey> jcastro: you are kidding, right?
[19:02] <Daviey> jcastro: opnestack has swift for file storage.. It's what rackspace uses in production called "cloudfiles"
[19:02] <Daviey> predates openstack.
[19:02] <jcastro> Daviey, oh sweet so I can just point juju to it and get the exact same thing I can with s3?
[19:02] <Daviey> jcastro: that is the plan!
[19:02] <jcastro>  right, the plan
[19:03] <jcastro> but doesn't help me right now.
[19:03] <Daviey> (there is also a ceph object storage component, but not experimented with it myself)
[19:03] <jcastro> yeah, for now his charm will be S3-specific
[19:03] <Daviey> jcastro: Canonsistack doesn't yet provide S3.
[19:03] <jcastro> but the idea of being able to redeploy on openstack is awesome, I will actually try it too
[19:04]  * AlanBell ponders a performance faceoff with a multi-tier juju rig vs an all in one on a VM setup
[19:04] <jcastro> Daviey, oh so what you're telling me is that limitation is our deployment specific? And that everything is fine in upstream?
[19:04] <jcastro> "fine" as in, will be working
[19:05] <Daviey> jcastro: Well, swift is largely regarded as the most stable component
[19:05] <jcastro> man, I am delighted to be so wrong.
[19:05] <jcastro> Daviey, someone should put you in charge of stuff
[19:05] <Daviey> there is a shim which proxies to s3 in nova.. it's not /well/ tested, compared to the rest of it.
[19:06] <Daviey> jcastro: hah
[19:07] <jcastro> man I am kicking myself for the xlarges
[19:07] <nigelb> Isn't he already incharge of stuff? :D
[19:07] <jcastro> marcoceppi, it was getting late and I was getting inpatient
[19:07] <jcastro> should have texted Clint way earlier
[19:07] <nigelb> also, seeing Daviey on IRC on a weekend.
[19:07] <nigelb> I'm shocked beyond belief.
[19:08] <jcastro> $60 dollar mistake, that's like a nice steak.
[19:12] <jcastro> popey, clearing the cache do it?
[19:22] <jcastro> man there's tons of things we can optimize here
[19:22] <jcastro> these pages are heavy
[19:22] <jcastro> and the images are like, being resized in html
[19:22] <jcastro> http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/.../Screen-Shot-2012-03-12-at-17.03.47-50... is resized in HTML or CSS from 500x295 to 150x88. Serving a scaled image could save 183.2KiB (91% reduction).
[19:22] <jcastro> a whole bunch of these right on the homepage
[19:23] <jcastro> I bet we can easily slim down the amount of things he needs to serve on top of what we're doing
[19:25] <bkerensa> jcastro: He needs to smush his images and use image polish to dynamically resize on the fly
[19:25] <jcastro> I think WP does this in the newish version
[19:26] <jcastro> the new charm will just use upstream wordpress so he can update on his own schedule
[19:26] <bkerensa> jcastro: there is a wordpress Yahoo SmushIt plugin... it will resmush all his images
[19:26] <bkerensa> as for Image Polish only Cloudflare offers this atm
[19:26]  * jcastro notes that
[19:29] <czajkowski> cjohnston: should I be seeing http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/track/community/
[19:29] <AlanBell> jcastro: I would be interested in a funkload report of a default (unoptimised) wordpress install on a single small instance compared to a 3 instance setup
[19:30] <cjohnston> czajkowski: no
[19:34] <Daviey> nigelb: Are you kidding?
[19:34] <Daviey> nigelb: I'm on most weekeneds
[19:35] <cjohnston> Daviey: since your around and all.. want to help me with an error that I came across with summit ;-)
[19:35] <cjohnston> hehe
[19:36] <Daviey> cjohnston: oh?
[19:36] <cjohnston> Daviey: http://summit.chrisjohnston.org  <-- click login
[19:37] <cjohnston> a google search gave me 3 results, which didnt help. :-/
[19:38] <Daviey> cjohnston: Are you  missing a *kwargs?
[19:38] <cjohnston> i don't think I changed anything that would effect login...
[19:39] <cjohnston> it works locally too
[19:40] <Daviey> cjohnston: is production summit running 1.3 now?
[19:40] <cjohnston> yes
[19:42] <cjohnston> https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/summit/action-item-links and https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/summit/new-meeting-stuff plus a little css is what was merged in
[19:43] <Daviey> cjohnston: Hah, https://bugs.launchpad.net/software-center-agent/+bug/873244 suggests a missing kwarg's aswell
[19:43] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 873244 in software-center-agent "custom openid_render_failure has wrong signature" [Undecided,Fix released]
[19:45] <cjohnston> hrm
[20:07] <cjohnston> Daviey: I've looked back through the code, and unless I'm missing something, I don't see it. :-/
[20:22] <Daviey> cjohnston: I suspect it's that you are lacking relevant data on your devel site
[20:22] <Daviey> Perhaps don't have an admin user, a UDS object created, or something like that.
[20:22] <cjohnston> the devel site was working prior to the merge as well
[20:25] <Daviey> Oh, NFI then
[20:25] <Daviey> sorry :)
[20:25] <cjohnston> ok
[20:25] <cjohnston> ty
[20:25] <Daviey> cjohnston: Have you reverted the merge?
[20:26] <cjohnston> i just did.. it has an issue with the undoing the migration
[20:26] <Daviey> who merged a migration that doesn't allow a reverse? :
[20:26] <Daviey> :)
[20:28] <cjohnston> it has an inconsistant migration history
[20:33] <nigelb> Daviey: NFI is now my standard response to summit :D
[20:49] <Daviey> :)