[07:01] <pvagner> AlanBell: sorry to disturb you again... er but please if you can... I've tried your advice from yesterday. I've started the live cd, pressed ctrl+s to start orca, alt+tabbed to the installer window, tabbed to the try ubuntu push button, hit space, waited for orca to come up again, pressed ctrl+aalt+t to bring up the terminal and typed
[07:01] <pvagner> metacity --replace &; unity-2d-shell &; unity-2d-pannel &
[07:01] <pvagner> what I got was a syntaks error. Then I've tried to do just
[07:01] <pvagner> metacity --replace ; unity-2d-shell ; unity-2d-pannel &
[07:01] <pvagner> which worked but...
[07:01] <pvagner> I've got a crash of compiz. I have presset the push button saying something like keep closed. Then I have reaalized I am unable to use menus e.g. by pressing F10 and also I can't press alt+f1, alt+f2 etc. The only thing which worked at this stage is alt+tabbing to the orca window, launching orca preferences or using ctrl+alt+d to go to the desktop.
[07:02] <pvagner> AlanBell: have I done something wrong please?
[07:02] <pvagner> AlanBell: Is there something you think I can try?
[07:04] <pvagner> just to remind a bit, my goal is to switch to unity 2d while running live cd
[07:09] <pvagner> I'm running ubuntu live from usb not a cd so perhaps I can tweak some file to start ubuntu 2d instead of 3d this waay. However I don't seem to be able to find something relevant on google yet.
[07:14] <pvagner> from the ui, it can be done as described here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/89102/how-do-i-enable-unity-2d-on-the-livecd
[07:14] <pvagner> however there is no accessibility support for the login screen yet so this is not a working solution for me.
[07:18] <pvagner> huh, I think I'm  not the only one wishing to do something like this. However this does not appear to be answered... http://osdir.com/ml/ubuntu-accessibility/2011-10/msg00058.html
[07:58] <AlanBell> TheMuso: got any ideas on switching desktop environments from the live CD?
[10:02] <TheMuso> AlanBell: You mean for the next running session when you log in/out? You need to change the session that is set as the login session, and AccountService stores this info for lightdm.
[10:02] <TheMuso> So you need to use dbus to make the change.
[10:02] <TheMuso> I did post a dbus-send command on the accessibility list a while back for this.
[10:02] <AlanBell> does that work on the live cd?
[10:02] <TheMuso> It should.
[10:02] <TheMuso> You just need to log out and back in again.
[11:57] <cprofitt> A cool device that would be nice to have working in Ubuntu
[11:57] <cprofitt> http://www.madentec.com/products/intelliswitch.php
[11:58] <cprofitt> http://www.madentec.com/products/discover-envoy.php
[14:35] <pvagner> AlanBell: TheMuso: sorry most likelly I have missed the definitive answer. Can I somehow do it?
[21:38] <MrChrisDruif> Hai guys
[21:39]  * jalcine waves.
[21:39]  * MrChrisDruif waves back to jalcine 
[21:39] <MrChrisDruif> ;-)
[21:41] <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, are there any known issues in terms of accessibility with lightdm and are there known workarounds for them?
[21:42] <TheMuso> MrChrisDruif: What version of Ubuntu?
[21:43] <MrChrisDruif> TheMuso; 12.04
[21:44] <TheMuso> MrChrisDruif: Ah ok.
[21:44] <MrChrisDruif> (Better put, Lubuntu's 12.04)
[21:44] <TheMuso> MrChrisDruif: Well you can now use orca in the login manager. If its not enabled, press Control + S to turn it on, and it will remain on for subsequent uses.
[21:44] <TheMuso> Ah I don't know what greeter lubuntu is using, probably the standard GTK greeter, which has no accessibility support afaik.
[21:44] <MrChrisDruif> Is that documented somewhere already?
[21:45] <MrChrisDruif> Afaik indeed the default gtk one
[21:45] <MrChrisDruif> s/default/standard
[21:46] <TheMuso> The only way you will get accessibility for lightdm at this point, is if you install the unity-greeter package, which is the login greeter that Ubuntu uses.
[21:46] <TheMuso> If I get a chance one day, I will look at the GTK greeter and implement similar support there.
[21:46] <MrChrisDruif> But that Orca option is only available with the one of Ubuntu and it uses what greeter again?
[21:46] <TheMuso> The unity-greeter package is what you want.
[21:47] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe those things might be backported to 12.04 hopefully? That way even the LTS-user might benefit from it
[21:48] <TheMuso> Probably not, because it will be an additional feature.
[21:48] <TheMuso> And no additional features will be introduced into 12.04 post release.
[21:48] <TheMuso> But something could be made available via the backports repository.
[21:55] <MrChrisDruif> That would be nice I think
[21:56] <MrChrisDruif> But is there anything documented about these acc. features for lightdm? And which greeter is needed to get it working?
[22:01] <TheMuso> Unity-greeter is needed to get it working, thats what I have been trying to say.
[22:01] <TheMuso> Nothing really officially documented yet, but I will be putting something together once 12.04 is out.
[22:06] <MrChrisDruif> Why the hold up? Because things may still change? O_O
[22:09] <TheMuso> No, because I don't have time.
[22:09] <TheMuso> atm
[22:09] <TheMuso> I am still working on fixing little bugs in and there.
[22:09] <TheMuso> here
[22:09] <MrChrisDruif> Alright
[22:10] <MrChrisDruif> I might wanna start on something because Lubuntu is also switching to LightDM this release and it might be handy to (finally) have some docs
[22:12] <JanC> docs should be mandatory before a package is accepted into the distro...  :-/
[22:14] <MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, agreed JanC ^_^
[22:14] <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, I was looking for something more user orientated docs
[22:15] <MrChrisDruif> So I'll see what I can come up with atleast for the Lubuntu crowd
[22:17] <JanC> when I say docs I mean the whole range: from end-user over admin to developer
[22:19] <jalcine> from manpages to Mallard/Docbook packages!
[22:21] <JanC> manpages is what you often want as an admin / support person
[22:22] <JanC> if only to find what you need to get useful debug output or override default, etc.
[22:23] <MrChrisDruif> Indeed
[22:24] <MrChrisDruif> Good point, but don't expect it to ever happen. At least not with Ubuntu, not any time soon if at all.
[22:25] <JanC> well, some (Ubuntu) projects insist on tests to accept patches, I think they should do the same for docs...  ;)
[22:25] <jalcine> Well, it would be helpful if the help center for apps was a bit unified and easy to get to.
[22:25] <MrChrisDruif> I think Arch would sooner get that then Ubuntu
[22:25] <jalcine> They would.
[22:25] <MrChrisDruif> Seeing how their wiki is now
[22:26] <JanC> well, the BSDs too, but their "base system" is very limited, of course
[22:27] <MrChrisDruif> Arch's base system is also very limited ;-)
[22:27] <JanC> oh, and GNU projects (except you need 'info' to read it then)