| ibeardslee | afternoon | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| G | mwhudson: ouch, I reckon I'm going to lose some HDDs due to lack of cooling soon, holding off a month or two to get a new case (with better cooling) & replacement HDDs, hope it can last until then | 00:14 |
| ojwb | G: or just move south | 00:17 |
| G | ojwb: well yeah, in a month or two, I'll start having circa 0degC mornings | 00:18 |
| ojwb | brrr | 00:18 |
| G | morning frosts :) | 00:18 |
| ojwb | my current laptop has a metal case, which isn't nice on winter mornings | 00:19 |
| ojwb | luckily they put a big heater in | 00:19 |
| G | half tempted to buy http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=344064 as a short term solution | 00:19 |
| ajmitch | so you cook bacon & eggs on there in the morning? | 00:19 |
| ojwb | ajmitch: no, but the fan exhaust helps keep my tea warm | 00:19 |
| G | sounds like my Dell (except the metal case), I'm just so glad I got the extra 3-cell battery (9 cell instead of 6 cell) because other wise I'm sure there would be a fire as it runs so hot :) | 00:21 |
| ajmitch | temp1: +100.0°C | 00:21 |
| ajmitch | so mine's pretty much hot enough for that | 00:21 |
| G | ajmitch: what component is that from? | 00:21 |
| ajmitch | G: not sure, CPU temp was at a chilly 92C, but that's because I was doing some work stuff :) | 00:21 |
| G | HD Temps: sda 57, sdb 66, sdc 58, sdd 72 | 00:22 |
| G | as long as sda & sdc don't fail, I won't be too upset, but yeah | 00:24 |
| ajmitch | that's still a bit warm for the others | 00:24 |
| G | exactly | 00:24 |
| G | airflow in this case is rubbish | 00:24 |
| ajmitch | sda is currently 47C but probably not even mounted | 00:25 |
| ajmitch | I don't think my SSD reports temperature properly as it's always 30C | 00:25 |
| G | I'm pondering an i5/i7 upgrade soon, so I'll likely just go the whole hog and do HDD & Case upgrades at the same time | 00:26 |
| * ajmitch just did an SSD transplant in this laptop recently, it may stretch out the laptop's life by a bit | 00:27 | |
| G | I'd imagine the UEFI BIOSes play better w/ the >1.5TB 4k sector HDDs | 00:27 |
| ibeardslee | my next home PC will probably just have an SSD | 00:30 |
| ibeardslee | leaving the majority of files on a nas of some sort | 00:30 |
| ibeardslee | .. that home PC will proabaly also have a cpu, ram etc as well ;) | 00:30 |
| G | yeah, I'd likely get an SSD for a laptop, but I use a desktop type machine more as a server :) | 00:31 |
| ajmitch | I'd never have seen my old laptop 5400 RPM hard drive do > 150MB/sec in iotop as I thrash swap to death :) | 00:31 |
| * ajmitch obviously needs more RAM | 00:31 | |
| mwhudson | since i got a laptop with an ssd i just open openoffice documents for fun! | 00:31 |
| ajmitch | such a waste! | 00:31 |
| mwhudson | netbeans is still ****ing slow though | 00:32 |
| ajmitch | they still take about 5 seconds to open, I guess? :) | 00:32 |
| mwhudson | ajmitch: no, probably about 1 | 00:32 |
| ajmitch | not too bad | 00:32 |
| G | hmmmm interesting, Dell are doing Rack-mount workstations | 00:33 |
| G | mount it below your keyboard tray? | 00:33 |
| ibeardslee | monitor, keyboard mouse over ethernet? | 00:35 |
| G | ibeardslee: I guess that is what they are aiming for, but Quad-DVI for instance could be pushing it no? (no idea of the bandwidth DVI requires) | 00:36 |
| mwhudson | thunderbolt!!! | 00:36 |
| G | mwhudson: I thought Apple still had exclusive on that for now? | 00:36 |
| ajmitch | so with UFB we'll all have infinite bandwidth to use, right? | 00:36 |
| mwhudson | in practice maybe | 00:36 |
| mwhudson | but i don't think they control the tech | 00:37 |
| mwhudson | (hopefully they learnt the lesson w/ firewire there) | 00:37 |
| G | ahhh I see, you rack it, and then you have a "Remote Access Device" for each two monitors | 00:37 |
| G | hate to find out the price of said machine, that is for sure | 00:38 |
| ibeardslee | of course once you start putting workstations in a rack, you get back to people thinking about how they could reduce the space overhead of the workstations in a rack and you start getting back to remote terminals | 00:47 |
| mwhudson | haven't we been about to get back to remote terminals for about a decade now? | 00:48 |
| ibeardslee | I think that if 'the cloud' carries on growing it is more likely | 00:50 |
| ibeardslee | although maybe it is more remote data storage | 00:51 |
| ibeardslee | web based apps | 00:51 |
| ibeardslee | etc | 00:51 |
| ajmitch | we're oscillating between 2 extremes | 00:51 |
| ibeardslee | personally I like the idea of having the power and grunt out of the way but being able to access it with a relatively low power/noice/heat device from anywhere | 00:52 |
| ibeardslee | BUT that 'out of the way' is something I want to be able to control | 00:52 |
| mwhudson | but the thing is, my newish extremely beefy laptop is the first machine i've had that runs a web browser really nicely | 00:53 |
| mwhudson | certainly my atom powered netbook doesn't | 00:53 |
| ibeardslee | yes /me regularly wants to stab his netbook | 00:54 |
| G | yeah, but these workstations are particularly for CAD designers etc, so surely there is an aspect that hosting their machines all in a single, climate controlled room w/ a rack, and delievering via Ethernet is a not bad idea | 00:54 |
| ibeardslee | the next step is does it really matter if *that* workstation is *that* person's or as long as they have access to the same resources as last time they tried to do anything .. does it matter if it is a remote workstation | 00:56 |
| mwhudson | well yes, because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_Distributed_Computing | 00:57 |
| thumper | ok, rebooting was a massive fail | 00:57 |
| thumper | machine is dead now :( | 00:57 |
| mwhudson | thumper: we'd guessed that | 00:57 |
| ibeardslee | we figured | 00:57 |
| thumper | left at a busybox prompt | 00:57 |
| G | thumper: we gathered :) | 00:57 |
| * thumper sighs | 00:57 | |
| thumper | I'm downloading a percise iso | 00:58 |
| ibeardslee | mwhudson: that's why I'd want control of the environment | 00:58 |
| G | mwhudson: that article is pretty much spot on imo | 01:00 |
| ajmitch | thumper: do you think it's hardware or software failure? | 01:01 |
| G | my bet would be on HDD | 01:02 |
| ajmitch | that's generally what happens when it gets a few bad sectors in the wrong place | 01:02 |
| thumper | that is my feeling too | 01:03 |
| thumper | I'm wondering if a rebuild from cd would be good stop gap | 01:03 |
| thumper | until I get a new disk / machine | 01:03 |
| ajmitch | it doesn't make it any less annoying | 01:03 |
| thumper | no... | 01:03 |
| ibeardslee | so the disk is fully dead? or can you access stuf from a live cd? | 01:05 |
| ibeardslee | hmm ... should /etc/termcap normally exist? | 01:06 |
| ajmitch | ibeardslee: I don't have /etc/termcap on my laptop | 01:06 |
| ibeardslee | if I start a new terminal window I get told .. | 01:07 |
| ibeardslee | *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap' | 01:07 |
| thumper | ibeardslee: I'm downloading a cd image now | 01:08 |
| ibeardslee | I wonder if this morning's updates are just playing silly buggers | 01:08 |
| ajmitch | ibeardslee: on precise? | 01:08 |
| mwhudson | i don't have termcap either | 01:08 |
| ibeardslee | yes on precise | 01:09 |
| hads | G: Time is synced to NTP. Still not sure what the go is. | 01:09 |
| * ibeardslee wanders off to reboot the lappy | 01:09 | |
| hads | G: One particular query in the admin section (current active sessions) was causing the issue so I've just disabled that report for now until I can look into it. | 01:10 |
| hads | Backup VM is all synced up with live if things fall apart :) | 01:11 |
| ajmitch | ibeardslee: looks like there are existing bugs about this dating back quite awhile | 01:12 |
| ajmitch | they also shouldn't really affect precise according to that :) | 01:13 |
| ibeardslee | after that reboot all is good | 01:13 |
| ibeardslee | thumper: I'm told you have a zareason laptop? | 01:14 |
| thumper | ibeardslee: I do | 01:15 |
| thumper | about 2.5 years old now | 01:15 |
| ibeardslee | what is it like? build quality etc | 01:15 |
| hads | The hard drive is no good :) | 01:15 |
| thumper | generally good | 01:15 |
| thumper | I ended up putting a crack in it by carrying it one handed | 01:15 |
| thumper | holding one corner | 01:16 |
| thumper | but I figured that was my fault | 01:16 |
| hads | No thinkpad titanium hinges then. | 01:16 |
| thumper | on thing I did decide on though, was to never buy another laptop with only two usb ports | 01:16 |
| thumper | it was a crack on plastic around the keyboard, just under the right arrow key | 01:16 |
| thumper | about 8mm long | 01:16 |
| thumper | give or take 2mm | 01:17 |
| * thumper is eyeballing it | 01:17 | |
| ojwb | you dropped it? | 01:17 |
| ojwb | or just the weight of it cracked it? | 01:17 |
| hads | The only reason (which is quite sad) that I've not bought a laptop from them or system76 is the thinkpad trackpoint. | 01:17 |
| thumper | no, just carrying it while it was open, with one hand on the LHS | 01:17 |
| ojwb | hmm, doesn't sound good | 01:17 |
| ibeardslee | zareason seem to be planning on setting up shop in NZ | 01:17 |
| thumper | ojwb: I think it was the weight | 01:17 |
| thumper | ibeardslee: zareason shipped to NZ no problem, with a NZ plug even | 01:18 |
| * ojwb resists picking up his by one corner to see what happens | 01:18 | |
| ibeardslee | hads: you got that email? | 01:18 |
| hads | I did, thanks for the inclusion. | 01:19 |
| * ajmitch wouldn't mind buying a new laptop that has ubuntu preloaded | 01:20 | |
| ajmitch | since I don't really care about the 'installation experience', I just want to have it working | 01:21 |
| * ibeardslee is aiming to get someone in NZ before the NZOSA later this year | 01:21 | |
| ajmitch | that'd be good | 01:21 |
| ibeardslee | so they can sponsor it as well | 01:21 |
| ajmitch | get them to sponsor kiwipycon as well ;) | 01:21 |
| ibeardslee | use it as some promotion etc | 01:21 |
| ibeardslee | ajmitch: I have always installed my PC/laptop again | 01:22 |
| ibeardslee | I don't care for the installation experience myself, but I do care to some degree about what is actually on there | 01:22 |
| ibeardslee | .. a hangover from the Windows and driver CD world | 01:23 |
| ajmitch | right, but I tend to start from a default install & add stuff, rather than doing a minimalist install | 01:23 |
| ajmitch | so as long as it was a default install of ubuntu I'd be happy enough | 01:23 |
| G | I'm on the "I just go ahead and reinstall no matter what" boat | 01:24 |
| ibeardslee | aye, but an OEM default install, is not necessarily the same as only installing ubuntu-desktop (and dependancies) | 01:24 |
| ibeardslee | there is also partitioning to consider | 01:24 |
| * mwhudson has gotten used to carrying his thinkpad around _by the screen_ | 01:26 | |
| mwhudson | i think i'd better not buy any other laptop until i kick that habit | 01:26 |
| hads | Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. | 01:26 |
| ajmitch | ibeardslee: you wouldn't go for one large partition on a laptop? | 01:26 |
| ibeardslee | nope | 01:27 |
| ibeardslee | generally / and /home (and swap) | 01:27 |
| ajmitch | true, I do care about the size of swap, less so for separate /home | 01:28 |
| ibeardslee | sda1 = /, sda2 = swap, sda3 = /home | 01:28 |
| ibeardslee | although that order is less important with an SSD | 01:28 |
| thumper | mwhudson: how do you find the thinkpads? | 01:29 |
| ibeardslee | and in practise probably doesn't make much of a difference anyway | 01:29 |
| thumper | mwhudson: I'm up for buying another laptop around september | 01:29 |
| mwhudson | thumper: i really really like mine | 01:29 |
| hads | You have to buy Windows with them | 01:29 |
| mwhudson | yeah, that part sucks | 01:30 |
| mwhudson | the x220 is sold with ubuntu in china i think.... | 01:30 |
| mwhudson | so at least it works | 01:30 |
| hads | Other than that, I don't think you can beat them really. | 01:30 |
| mwhudson | i wouldn't mind a macbook air in some ways | 01:30 |
| G | I generally still do a boot partition (normally 500MB-1GB these days) , swap, and rest LVM | 01:30 |
| ojwb | mwhudson: assuming it's the same spec - my laptop's wifi crashes the kernel in linux, but a friend with a UK model has a completely different wireless chipset and is fine | 01:32 |
| mwhudson | ojwb: i paid like $10 more to get one with a named wifi chipset | 01:33 |
| ojwb | wish i had | 01:34 |
| ojwb | i should try swapping the wireless card with the old one | 01:34 |
| ibeardslee | morning | 18:35 |
| ajmitch | morning | 18:51 |
| hads | Just upgraded my laptop, seems to have gone smooth enough. | 21:13 |
| ajmitch | hads: upgraded to precise? | 21:14 |
| hads | Yah | 21:16 |
| ajmitch | good to hear that upgrades aren't completely broken, I'm sure there are plenty of corner cases though depending on what packages are installed | 21:18 |
| * ibeardslee loves apt-cacher-ng | 21:21 | |
| * ajmitch loves debmirror | 21:21 | |
| ibeardslee | the laptop at home was downloading at 836kbs | 21:21 |
| * hads uses squid | 21:21 | |
| mwhudson | i've used polipo sometimes, but it's a bit crappy | 21:22 |
| ibeardslee | the PC then did it at 1880kbs | 21:22 |
| hads | apt-cacher and apt-proxy have all failed me in the past. | 21:22 |
| * ajmitch downloads from the mirror at home at ~11MB/sec | 21:22 | |
| ibeardslee | I mirror does mean there are a lot of packages that aren't actually used being downloaded though right? | 21:24 |
| ajmitch | right | 21:24 |
| ajmitch | but they're there when I need them, usually for building other packages | 21:24 |
| ajmitch | which matters more to me | 21:24 |
| hads | Not for your use case ajmitch, but there's a squid-deb-proxy package these days which does everything for you. No messing about with apt-cacher etc. | 21:26 |
| ibeardslee | from what i have found I can use different archives for each machine and still only get a package downloaded once | 21:30 |
| ibeardslee | whereas with a squid proxy each package on a different mirror is a different file | 21:31 |
| ojwb | morning | 22:09 |
| G | hmmm interesting differing mirroring techniques, I use nginx hackery :) | 22:13 |
| ibeardslee | interesting .. Ascent have said that they can source these without Windows .. http://www.msiwhitebook.com/product_spec.asp?model=MS-168C-ID1 | 23:03 |
| === mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson | ||
| ojwb | ibeardslee: does it all work with linux? | 23:23 |
| ibeardslee | ojwb: I haven't got that far checking it out yet | 23:24 |
| ibeardslee | although I do like the idea of options, I'd rather see a single consistent supplier | 23:24 |
| ojwb | yeah | 23:25 |
| ibeardslee | fracturing the non-windows laptop market is not going to encourage people to put the effort into making it work | 23:25 |
| ojwb | i'm not sure it's fracturing it to be able to buy from more than one supplier | 23:26 |
| ojwb | otherwise people will just buy with windows and wipe | 23:26 |
| ibeardslee | at the risk of being stabbed repeatedly in the face, I do think that a monopoly on Windows-less laptops is needed until it a linux laptop is getting closer to 'the norm'. | 23:30 |
| ibeardslee | now that is at the brand level rather than the retailer level | 23:32 |
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