[00:03] <ibeardslee> afternoon
[00:14] <G> mwhudson: ouch, I reckon I'm going to lose some HDDs due to lack of cooling soon, holding off a month or two to get a new case (with better cooling) & replacement HDDs, hope it can last until then
[00:17] <ojwb> G: or just move south
[00:18] <G> ojwb: well yeah, in a month or two, I'll start having circa 0degC mornings
[00:18] <ojwb> brrr
[00:18] <G> morning frosts :)
[00:19] <ojwb> my current laptop has a metal case, which isn't nice on winter mornings
[00:19] <ojwb> luckily they put a big heater in
[00:19] <G> half tempted to buy http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=344064 as a short term solution
[00:19] <ajmitch> so you cook bacon & eggs on there in the morning?
[00:19] <ojwb> ajmitch: no, but the fan exhaust helps keep my tea warm
[00:21] <G> sounds like my Dell (except the metal case), I'm just so glad I got the extra 3-cell battery (9 cell instead of 6 cell) because other wise I'm sure there would be a fire as it runs so hot :)
[00:21] <ajmitch> temp1:       +100.0°C
[00:21] <ajmitch> so mine's pretty much hot enough for that
[00:21] <G> ajmitch: what component is that from?
[00:21] <ajmitch> G: not sure, CPU temp was at a chilly 92C, but that's because I was doing some work stuff :)
[00:22] <G> HD Temps: sda 57, sdb 66, sdc 58, sdd 72
[00:24] <G> as long as sda & sdc don't fail, I won't be too upset, but yeah
[00:24] <ajmitch> that's still a bit warm for the others
[00:24] <G> exactly
[00:24] <G> airflow in this case is rubbish
[00:25] <ajmitch> sda is currently 47C but probably not even mounted
[00:25] <ajmitch> I don't think my SSD reports temperature properly as it's always 30C
[00:26] <G> I'm pondering an i5/i7 upgrade soon, so I'll likely just go the whole hog and do HDD & Case upgrades at the same time
[00:27]  * ajmitch just did an SSD transplant in this laptop recently, it may stretch out the laptop's life by a bit
[00:27] <G> I'd imagine the UEFI BIOSes play better w/ the >1.5TB 4k sector HDDs
[00:30] <ibeardslee> my next home PC will probably just have an SSD
[00:30] <ibeardslee> leaving the majority of files on a nas of some sort
[00:30] <ibeardslee> .. that home PC will proabaly also have a cpu, ram etc as well ;)
[00:31] <G> yeah, I'd likely get an SSD for a laptop, but I use a desktop type machine more as a server :)
[00:31] <ajmitch> I'd never have seen my old laptop 5400 RPM hard drive do > 150MB/sec in iotop as I thrash swap to death :)
[00:31]  * ajmitch obviously needs more RAM
[00:31] <mwhudson> since i got a laptop with an ssd i just open openoffice documents for fun!
[00:31] <ajmitch> such a waste!
[00:32] <mwhudson> netbeans is still ****ing slow though
[00:32] <ajmitch> they still take about 5 seconds to open, I guess? :)
[00:32] <mwhudson> ajmitch: no, probably about 1
[00:32] <ajmitch> not too bad
[00:33] <G> hmmmm interesting, Dell are doing Rack-mount workstations
[00:33] <G> mount it below your keyboard tray?
[00:35] <ibeardslee> monitor, keyboard mouse over ethernet?
[00:36] <G> ibeardslee: I guess that is what they are aiming for, but Quad-DVI for instance could be pushing it no?  (no idea of the bandwidth DVI requires)
[00:36] <mwhudson> thunderbolt!!!
[00:36] <G> mwhudson: I thought Apple still had exclusive on that for now?
[00:36] <ajmitch> so with UFB we'll all have infinite bandwidth to use, right?
[00:36] <mwhudson> in practice maybe
[00:37] <mwhudson> but i don't think they control the tech
[00:37] <mwhudson> (hopefully they learnt the lesson w/ firewire there)
[00:37] <G> ahhh I see, you rack it, and then you have a "Remote Access Device" for each two monitors
[00:38] <G> hate to find out the price of said machine, that is for sure
[00:47] <ibeardslee> of course once you start putting workstations in a rack, you get back to people thinking about how they could reduce the space overhead of the workstations in a rack and you start getting back to remote terminals
[00:48] <mwhudson> haven't we been about to get back to remote terminals for about a decade now?
[00:50] <ibeardslee> I think that if 'the cloud' carries on growing it is more likely
[00:51] <ibeardslee> although maybe it is more remote data storage
[00:51] <ibeardslee> web based apps
[00:51] <ibeardslee> etc
[00:51] <ajmitch> we're oscillating between 2 extremes
[00:52] <ibeardslee> personally I like the idea of having the power and grunt out of the way but being able to access it with a relatively low power/noice/heat device from anywhere
[00:52] <ibeardslee> BUT that 'out of the way' is something I want to be able to control
[00:53] <mwhudson> but the thing is, my newish extremely beefy laptop is the first machine i've had that runs a web browser really nicely
[00:53] <mwhudson> certainly my atom powered netbook doesn't
[00:54] <ibeardslee> yes /me regularly wants to stab his netbook
[00:54] <G> yeah, but these workstations are particularly for CAD designers etc, so surely there is an aspect that hosting their machines all in a single, climate controlled room w/ a rack, and delievering via Ethernet is a not bad idea
[00:56] <ibeardslee> the next step is does it really matter if *that* workstation is *that* person's or as long as they have access to the same resources as last time they tried to do anything .. does it matter if it is a remote workstation
[00:57] <mwhudson> well yes, because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_Distributed_Computing
[00:57] <thumper> ok, rebooting was a massive fail
[00:57] <thumper> machine is dead now :(
[00:57] <mwhudson> thumper: we'd guessed that
[00:57] <ibeardslee> we figured
[00:57] <thumper> left at a busybox prompt
[00:57] <G> thumper: we gathered :)
[00:57]  * thumper sighs
[00:58] <thumper> I'm downloading a percise iso
[00:58] <ibeardslee> mwhudson: that's why I'd want control of the environment
[01:00] <G> mwhudson: that article is pretty much spot on imo
[01:01] <ajmitch> thumper: do you think it's hardware or software failure?
[01:02] <G> my bet would be on HDD
[01:02] <ajmitch> that's generally what happens when it gets a few bad sectors in the wrong place
[01:03] <thumper> that is my feeling too
[01:03] <thumper> I'm wondering if a rebuild from cd would be good stop gap
[01:03] <thumper> until I get a new disk / machine
[01:03] <ajmitch> it doesn't make it any less annoying
[01:03] <thumper> no...
[01:05] <ibeardslee> so the disk is fully dead? or can you access stuf from a live cd?
[01:06] <ibeardslee> hmm ... should /etc/termcap normally exist?
[01:06] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: I don't have /etc/termcap on my laptop
[01:07] <ibeardslee> if I start a new terminal window I get told ..
[01:07] <ibeardslee> *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap'
[01:08] <thumper> ibeardslee: I'm downloading a cd image now
[01:08] <ibeardslee> I wonder if this morning's updates are just playing silly buggers
[01:08] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: on precise?
[01:08] <mwhudson> i don't have termcap either
[01:09] <ibeardslee> yes on precise
[01:09] <hads> G: Time is synced to NTP. Still not sure what the go is.
[01:09]  * ibeardslee wanders off to reboot the lappy
[01:10] <hads> G: One particular query in the admin section (current active sessions) was causing the issue so I've just disabled that report for now until I can look into it.
[01:11] <hads> Backup VM is all synced up with live if things fall apart :)
[01:12] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: looks like there are existing bugs about this dating back quite awhile
[01:13] <ajmitch> they also shouldn't really affect precise according to that :)
[01:13] <ibeardslee> after that reboot  all is good
[01:14] <ibeardslee> thumper: I'm told you have a zareason laptop?
[01:15] <thumper> ibeardslee: I do
[01:15] <thumper> about 2.5 years old now
[01:15] <ibeardslee> what is it like? build quality etc
[01:15] <hads> The hard drive is no good :)
[01:15] <thumper> generally good
[01:15] <thumper> I ended up putting a crack in it by carrying it one handed
[01:16] <thumper> holding one corner
[01:16] <thumper> but I figured that was my fault
[01:16] <hads> No thinkpad titanium hinges then.
[01:16] <thumper> on thing I did decide on though, was to never buy another laptop with only two usb ports
[01:16] <thumper> it was a crack on plastic around the keyboard, just under the right arrow key
[01:16] <thumper> about 8mm long
[01:17] <thumper> give or take 2mm
[01:17]  * thumper is eyeballing it
[01:17] <ojwb> you dropped it?
[01:17] <ojwb> or just the weight of it cracked it?
[01:17] <hads> The only reason (which is quite sad) that I've not bought a laptop from them or system76 is the thinkpad trackpoint.
[01:17] <thumper> no, just carrying it while it was open, with one hand on the LHS
[01:17] <ojwb> hmm, doesn't sound good
[01:17] <ibeardslee> zareason seem to be planning on setting up shop in NZ
[01:17] <thumper> ojwb: I think it was the weight
[01:18] <thumper> ibeardslee: zareason shipped to NZ no problem, with a NZ plug even
[01:18]  * ojwb resists picking up his by one corner to see what happens
[01:18] <ibeardslee> hads: you got that email?
[01:19] <hads> I did, thanks for the inclusion.
[01:20]  * ajmitch wouldn't mind buying a new laptop that has ubuntu preloaded
[01:21] <ajmitch> since I don't really care about the 'installation experience', I just want to have it working
[01:21]  * ibeardslee is aiming to get someone in NZ before the NZOSA later this year
[01:21] <ajmitch> that'd be good
[01:21] <ibeardslee> so they can sponsor it as well
[01:21] <ajmitch> get them to sponsor kiwipycon as well ;)
[01:21] <ibeardslee> use it as some promotion etc
[01:22] <ibeardslee> ajmitch: I have always installed my PC/laptop again
[01:22] <ibeardslee> I don't care for the installation experience myself, but I do care to some degree about what is actually on there
[01:23] <ibeardslee> .. a hangover from the Windows and driver CD world
[01:23] <ajmitch> right, but I tend to start from a default install & add stuff, rather than doing a minimalist install
[01:23] <ajmitch> so as long as it was a default install of ubuntu I'd be happy enough
[01:24] <G> I'm on the "I just go ahead and reinstall no matter what" boat
[01:24] <ibeardslee> aye, but an OEM default install, is not necessarily the same as only installing ubuntu-desktop (and dependancies)
[01:24] <ibeardslee> there is also partitioning to consider
[01:26]  * mwhudson has gotten used to carrying his thinkpad around _by the screen_
[01:26] <mwhudson> i think i'd better not buy any other laptop until i kick that habit
[01:26] <hads> Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
[01:26] <ajmitch> ibeardslee: you wouldn't go for one large partition on a laptop?
[01:27] <ibeardslee> nope
[01:27] <ibeardslee> generally / and /home (and swap)
[01:28] <ajmitch> true, I do care about the size of swap, less so for separate /home
[01:28] <ibeardslee> sda1 = /, sda2 = swap, sda3 = /home
[01:28] <ibeardslee> although that order is less important with an SSD
[01:29] <thumper> mwhudson: how do you find the thinkpads?
[01:29] <ibeardslee> and in practise probably doesn't make much of a difference anyway
[01:29] <thumper> mwhudson: I'm up for buying another laptop around september
[01:29] <mwhudson> thumper: i really really like mine
[01:29] <hads> You have to buy Windows with them
[01:30] <mwhudson> yeah, that part sucks
[01:30] <mwhudson> the x220 is sold with ubuntu in china i think....
[01:30] <mwhudson> so at least it works
[01:30] <hads> Other than that, I don't think you can beat them really.
[01:30] <mwhudson> i wouldn't mind a macbook air in some ways
[01:30] <G> I generally still do a boot partition (normally 500MB-1GB these days) , swap, and rest LVM
[01:32] <ojwb> mwhudson: assuming it's the same spec - my laptop's wifi crashes the kernel in linux, but a friend with a UK model has a completely different wireless chipset and is fine
[01:33] <mwhudson> ojwb: i paid like $10 more to get one with a named wifi chipset
[01:34] <ojwb> wish i had
[01:34] <ojwb> i should try swapping the wireless card with the old one
[18:35] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:51] <ajmitch> morning
[21:13] <hads> Just upgraded my laptop, seems to have gone smooth enough.
[21:14] <ajmitch> hads: upgraded to precise?
[21:16] <hads> Yah
[21:18] <ajmitch> good to hear that upgrades aren't completely broken, I'm sure there are plenty of corner cases though depending on what packages are installed
[21:21]  * ibeardslee loves apt-cacher-ng
[21:21]  * ajmitch loves debmirror
[21:21] <ibeardslee> the laptop at home was downloading at 836kbs
[21:21]  * hads uses squid
[21:22] <mwhudson> i've used polipo sometimes, but it's a bit crappy
[21:22] <ibeardslee> the PC then did it at 1880kbs
[21:22] <hads> apt-cacher and apt-proxy have all failed me in the past.
[21:22]  * ajmitch downloads from the mirror at home at ~11MB/sec
[21:24] <ibeardslee> I mirror does mean there are a lot of packages that aren't actually used being downloaded though right?
[21:24] <ajmitch> right
[21:24] <ajmitch> but they're there when I need them, usually for building other packages
[21:24] <ajmitch> which matters more to me
[21:26] <hads> Not for your use case ajmitch, but there's a squid-deb-proxy package these days which does everything for you. No messing about with apt-cacher etc.
[21:30] <ibeardslee> from what i have found I can use different archives for each machine and still only get a package downloaded once
[21:31] <ibeardslee> whereas with a squid proxy each package on a different mirror is a different file
[22:09] <ojwb> morning
[22:13] <G> hmmm interesting differing mirroring techniques, I use nginx hackery :)
[23:03] <ibeardslee> interesting .. Ascent have said that they can source these without Windows .. http://www.msiwhitebook.com/product_spec.asp?model=MS-168C-ID1
[23:23] <ojwb> ibeardslee: does it all work with linux?
[23:24] <ibeardslee> ojwb: I haven't got that far checking it out yet
[23:24] <ibeardslee> although I do like the idea of options, I'd rather see a single consistent supplier
[23:25] <ojwb> yeah
[23:25] <ibeardslee> fracturing the non-windows laptop market is not going to encourage people to put the effort into making it work
[23:26] <ojwb> i'm not sure it's fracturing it to be able to buy from more than one supplier
[23:26] <ojwb> otherwise people will just buy with windows and wipe
[23:30] <ibeardslee> at the risk of being stabbed repeatedly in the face, I do think that a monopoly on Windows-less laptops is needed until it a linux laptop is getting closer to 'the norm'.
[23:32] <ibeardslee> now that is at the brand level rather than the retailer level