[05:58] <mattt> *yawn*
[06:16] <MartijnVdS> Yay. No train service from/to Amsterdam.
[06:16] <MartijnVdS> "We have a problem communicating with the signals and switches"
[06:17] <mattt> WFH!
[06:19] <MartijnVdS> "Expected to be fixed by 9:00"
[06:20] <MartijnVdS> mattt: I'm considering that.. or going by car and paying towering parking fees
[06:24] <mattt> how long's the drive ?
[06:24] <MartijnVdS> 30 minutes (45 with traffic)
[06:24] <MartijnVdS> I can also just go to work after 9
 :)
[06:29] <shauno> isn't this what you've been practicing for?  just run!
[06:37] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[06:39] <MartijnVdS> Yay. estimate has been changed from 9:00 to "early afternoon"
[06:39] <MartijnVdS> Tempted to take a bike.
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> Yes. I'll do that.
[06:51] <mattt> run dammit run
[08:23] <diplo> Morning
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:32] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:47] <DJones> Morning all
[08:55] <BigRedS> G'morning!
[09:03] <daubers> Morning
[09:06] <bigcalm_lappy> Good morning peeps :)
[09:11] <DJones> Morning bigcalm_lappy
[09:13] <bigcalm_lappy> Hi DJones
[09:13] <davmor2> morning all
[09:50] <mrevell> davmor2, bigcalm_lappy: Just to confirm, I won't make it today :(
[09:51] <bigcalm_lappy> mrevell: a shame, I hope your family gets well soon
[09:51] <mrevell> thanks chapo
[09:51] <bigcalm_lappy> And on that note, time for a bacon sandwich!
[09:52] <davmor2> mrevell: shutup typing on here and go look after your kin ;)
[09:57] <JamesTait> Good morning, everyone! :D
[09:59] <bigcalm_lappy> Oh my, stary-eyed surprise
[10:15] <gord> i like Jorge's google+ posts it assures me that i'm not the only nerd at my company ;)
[10:15]  * bigcalm_lappy wonders if davmor2 is being quieter than usual because one of his cow-orkers is here
[10:16] <gord> have you guys set up a shrine to me in my abstinence?
[10:16] <gord> absence
[10:16] <gord> spellcheck = bad
[10:17] <czajkowski> lol
[10:18] <czajkowski> gord: why aren't you there?
[10:18] <czajkowski> gord: oi there are lots of nerds in your company mister!
[10:18] <gord> release to kick out the door today :)
[10:18] <czajkowski> take that back !
[10:19] <gord> well, there are nerds, then there are those of us that have seen every episode of star trek: tng, stargate: all of them and buffy, among many others
[10:19] <bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: you'll always be a rugby nerd in my heart
[10:20] <bigcalm_lappy> gord: the bacon sandwiches are missing you
[10:20] <czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: :)
[10:21] <bigcalm_lappy> Damn, should have brought some floss with me
[10:37] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:39] <bigcalm_lappy> Morning
[10:40] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:40] <czajkowski> davmor2: elo ello
[10:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: should think so too :P
[10:42] <davmor2> gord: make the blue message windows stop please...........
[10:43] <gord> davmor2, update? should be a new notify-osd by now
[10:43] <davmor2> gord: I'm on current
[10:45] <bigcalm_lappy> I'm on my last legs
[10:46] <gord> davmor2, then i guess wait for an update :)
[10:47] <davmor2> gord: you're an evil evil man I like it
[10:51] <AlanBell> davmor2: they still blue for you? did they ever go normal?
[10:52] <davmor2> AlanBell: nope never went normal
[10:52] <AlanBell> ah, mine did
[10:52] <davmor2> I use the snowdon image on the desktop though
[10:52] <AlanBell> was blue again a couple of days ago, then went back to normal
[10:53] <AlanBell> I use the default bruise
[10:53] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm_lappy
[10:53] <brobostigon> morning gord , davmor2 and AlanBell
[10:53] <davmor2> morning brobostigon
[10:54] <brobostigon> i just found the ubuntu one, home dir backup in precise, it is a good idea.
[10:57] <bigcalm_lappy> All I ever hear about Ubuntu1 is people losing stuff. Kinda puts me off using it
[10:57] <brobostigon> i also use dropbox.
[10:58] <BigRedS> bigcalm_lappy: well, nobody's going to talk about how U1 just didn't delete all their files
[11:01] <gord> bigcalm_lappy, its worth noting that all my ranting about u1 has always been because i'm on unstable releases :)
[11:01] <ali1234> my notifications are the right colour now but the launcher is still blue
[11:01] <DJones> BigRedS: I'm struggling to find somewhere with a xoom in stock, I may have to go with a galaxy tab
[11:01] <DJones> bigcalm_lappy: That should have been fo
[11:01] <DJones> sorry bigcalm_lappy
[11:02] <DJones> Complete and utter tab complete fail there
[11:03] <brobostigon> wow, an update to chromium.
[11:03]  * brobostigon has been practising his sarcasm.
[11:03] <balor> czajkowski, Are we giving @sil a holiday?
[11:04] <czajkowski> balor: no playing with blueptrints and needed one that wasnt going to cause too much trouble if I played with it
[11:04] <czajkowski> balor: conference limerick october. you're warned :)
[11:06] <balor> czajkowski, I shall order my stab-vest
[11:07] <balor> czajkowski, In Leinster colours
[11:07] <czajkowski> balor: you my dear can go......
[11:08] <balor> czajkowski, Is this conf to do with the city moving to OSS?
[11:09] <czajkowski> balor: no skynet - skyCon 20th Birthday :D
[11:11] <balor> czajkowski, fun
[11:12] <bigcalm_lappy> DJones: currys no longer stocking them?
[11:12] <bigcalm_lappy> Could be why they were cheapish, selling off end of line stock
[11:13] <DJones> bigcalm_lappy: They don't seem to have any stock, same with Argos, tesco, pcworld (all selling at the same price)
[11:17] <DJones> Or I guess I could look at the xoom 2
[11:20] <bigcalm_lappy> I wonder if the Xoom2 will get ICS in the UK any sooner than the Xoom
[11:20] <DJones> From what I read yesterday, no it won't, original xoom gets it first
[11:23] <dwatkins> I thought the Xoom already had ICS, I just had a customer report a problem with it at least.
[11:27] <DJones> Not yet, its due between March & May in the uk, but if you've got US firmware, they've been updated
[11:28] <dwatkins> aha thanks DJones :)
[11:29] <DJones> Hmmh, why does carphonewarehouse website tell me that the "ipad battery life" in the xoom 2 is 10 hours
[11:30] <ali1234> because it actually has an ipad inside it
[11:30] <ali1234> just like how vhs machines have dvd players inside
[11:31] <DJones> ali1234: I thought it was the iPad that had a Samsung Galaxy Tab inside/outside it (or is the other way round)
[11:32] <gord> you are all wrong, the ipad has an iphone inside it and the rest is just a magnifying lens
[11:36] <DJones> Hmmh, xoom 2 seems to be somewhat more capeable than the galaxy tab
[11:43] <DJones> On the other hand, there's always the transformer prime
[11:47] <popey> hah, ipad = iphone with frenzel lens
[11:47]  * dwatkins is reminded of the film Brazil
[11:47] <popey> i have a friend who had one of those lenses in front of his pc screen about 10 years ago
[11:48] <dwatkins> I gather the head-up displays they are developing to fit into contact lenses will use fresnel lenses to focus the on-eye display
[11:50] <dwatkins> http://www.tomsguide.com/us/1-Pixel-Contact-Lens-HUD-implant,news-13298.html for the curious and non-squeamish
[11:50] <ali1234> 1 pixel
[11:50] <ali1234> so basically it's like shining a torch into your eyes?
[11:54] <DJones> Argh. Decisions, decisions
[11:59] <BigRedS> ali1234: morse code messages
[11:59] <BigRedS> like nokia talked about doing for SMSs
[12:06] <dwatkins> ali1234: it might send you Morse-code messages
[13:11] <daubers> Urgh, I've had to make time to write a document about taking time to consider time
[13:11] <BigRedS> haha
[13:11] <daubers> Somedays I just don't have the time for this
[13:20] <BigRedS> df -h
[13:20] <BigRedS> oops
[13:22] <bigcalm_lappy> Gigs and gigs of goat porn
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[13:24] <BigRedS> haha
[13:24] <bigcalm_lappy> Just speculating
[13:24] <bigcalm_lappy> And forgetting that I'm not in another channel that is all about goat porn
[13:25] <BigRedS> find . -name goat\*
[13:25] <BigRedS> oh. dammit. rumbled
[13:29] <daubers> Woot! Quite nice when you see a device you dreamed up in an afternoon in a trade magazine
[13:30] <kirrus> what device? :)
[13:30] <BigRedS> Is that the IPv6 keypad?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: wouldn't that just be a hex keypad?
[13:31] <daubers> kirrus: LTO server thingy
[13:31] <kirrus> Light Transmitting Organ?
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.ipv6buddy.com/
[13:32] <daubers> kirrus: Tape drive :)
[13:33] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, that one
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Showing it to our network guys now :)
[13:33] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it's actually a genuine produict
[13:34] <BigRedS> despite the site looking an awful lot like a scap
[13:34] <BigRedS> scam
[13:34]  * BigRedS can't type today
[13:41]  * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy oi :P
[13:41]  * bigcalm_lappy falls asleep
[13:42]  * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy oi :P
[13:42] <bigcalm_lappy> Hey, I'm trying to sleep here
[13:42]  * davmor2 prods bigcalm_lappy oi :P
[13:43]  * bigcalm_lappy glares
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy uses GLARE. It's super-effective!
[13:43] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: it's a cow-orkers day not a fall asleep day
[13:44] <bigcalm_lappy> Good burger this
[13:44] <gord> maybe its co-naptime
[13:46] <bigcalm_lappy> Despite it looking like it, this isn't pre-school
[13:48] <dwatkins> Burger Time is apparently a very entertaining arcade game.
[13:48] <dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BurgerTime
[13:49] <gord> i need to nap as an adult *way* more than i ever needed to as a child
[13:52] <dwatkins> I've had two naps in the past six months.
[13:54] <bigcalm_lappy> dwatkins: I think you should get some more sleep
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: burger time, isn't that a few hours after beer o'clock?
[13:55] <brobostigon> beertime is anytime, burger time is fixed. :(
[13:56] <dwatkins> bigcalm_lappy: you're right, 7 hours isn't enough
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> Sat, Sun are nap days. 14:00 -> Zzz :)
[13:57] <bigcalm_lappy> Visiting my parents this weekend. It'll be another 2 solid days of WordPress support
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: .. yay
[13:58] <bigcalm_lappy> :)
[13:59] <dwatkins> could be worse, bigcalm_lappy - could be MS Word support ;)
[13:59] <dwatkins> I tend to help my dad out with his XP installation and backup issues when I'm there
[13:59] <bigcalm_lappy> I pay Bytemark 18 quid a month for a virtual machine for my own use. How much should I charge a club for hosting their website?
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> Whatever they're able to pay ;)
[14:00] <bigcalm_lappy> gord: you'll be happy to know that I've got hic-ups again today
[14:00] <bigcalm_lappy> MartijnVdS: I'm trying to be sensible about this
[14:00] <bigcalm_lappy> Thinking a yearly cost of £not_much
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: what do "web-only" hosters ask? Would £10/month be too much?
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> £100/y
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> ?
[14:01] <bigcalm_lappy> I think they are currently paying £80 / year for their hosting
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> 75 then?
[14:05] <diplo> With "personalised" support :)
[14:05] <diplo> IE they can poke you when it doesn't work
[14:06] <bigcalm_lappy> That's the thing, I'm just one man with a VM
[14:07] <bigcalm_lappy> I'm doing this for my dad who is in the club
[14:07] <diplo> I host three sites all for free :)
[14:07] <diplo> <-- sucker
[14:07] <bigcalm_lappy> I host sites for my family for free. But I have no connection with this new thing
[14:08] <bigcalm_lappy> So don't want to be taken for a ride
[14:08] <diplo> Ask for £30 or something then
[14:08] <diplo> I take it that it's very low bandy/disc usage
[14:08] <bigcalm_lappy> A month? Good idea
[14:08] <bigcalm_lappy> I have no idea what the bandwidth usage will be on this site yet
[14:08] <diplo> I'd ask your dad if he knows the people ?
[14:09] <diplo> Is there a reason for you hosting it over last people ?
[14:09] <bigcalm_lappy> Which reminds me, need to set up Google Analytics
[14:10] <bigcalm_lappy> The current person is about 79 and inter-club politics are going silly. Hence my dad setting up the new site
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> \o/ politics
[14:17] <bigcalm_lappy> I need sleep
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: so get some!
[14:18] <bigcalm_lappy> I would, but davmor2 threatens to throw things at me
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: so lock him in a drawer
[14:19] <bigcalm_lappy> COFFEE!
[14:19] <bigcalm_lappy> Oh, maybe a mocha this time
[14:19] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: 2 flaws to your plan,  out of the to of us I'm more likely to hurt him, and I'm 6ft2in that's a big draw
[14:20] <czajkowski> most irritating bug known to man - it just randomly crashes when alt tabbing.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/926379
[14:21] <gord> czajkowski, what we call, a driver bug =\
[14:21] <czajkowski> driver eh
[14:22] <czajkowski> drives a user insane
[14:22] <czajkowski> :)
[14:22] <MartijnVdS> gord: what about the white squared with Chrome notification popups?
[14:22] <gord> MartijnVdS, iruno
[14:23]  * MartijnVdS gets huge white rectangles sometimes
[14:23] <oimon> argh, what was the fix for griub>unknown filesystem when using 12.04?
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/940603
[14:26] <popey> oimon: boot from live cd and chroot in and reinstall grub
[14:26] <oimon> ok, the usual way then :D
[14:27] <oimon> wow, in grub mode, this vaio is cooking REALLY hot
[14:31]  * czajkowski pages popey to the bridge :) 
[14:31] <popey> hmm?
[14:32] <czajkowski> conference call
[14:35]  * christel tickles ali1234 
[14:35] <christel> er oops
[14:35] <christel> i meant to tickle AlanBell
[14:35] <christel> :x
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> poor ali1234
[14:35] <popey> haha
[14:35]  * bigcalm_lappy waits in line for a typo tickling
[14:35]  * popey tickles BigRedS 
[14:35]  * AlanBell is duely tickled
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: You're ali1234 ?!?!
[14:36]  * bigcalm_lappy grumbles
[14:36] <AlanBell> no, I am sparticus
[14:36] <bigcalm_lappy> No, I'm sparticus
[14:36] <popey> http://www.thatsnerdalicious.com/food-porn/french-fry-coated-hot-dog-on-a-stick-lunch-time/
[14:36] <popey> feeling peckish
[14:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.pizza.co.uk/
[14:38] <bigcalm_lappy> dominos.co.uk
[14:38] <gord> when i was a kid and we got chippy, i'd hollow out the middle of the massive saussage and put chips in there, it was glorious
[14:40] <bigcalm_lappy> I miss turkey sticks
[14:40] <AlanBell> twizzlers
[14:40] <bigcalm_lappy> No, not these
[14:41] <davmor2> AlanBell: bigcalm_lappy: sit down I'm sparticus
[14:41] <bigcalm_lappy> Cubes of breast meat and onion alternately on a wooden stick, battered and deep fried
[14:42] <bigcalm_lappy> More of an 80s thing I think
[14:44] <Dave2> deep fried onion?
[14:44] <Dave2> sounds...lovely
[14:44] <oimon> you called?
[14:44] <bigcalm_lappy> I'm full and really don't need this cake
[14:44] <bigcalm_lappy> Tasty is my downfall
[14:45] <bigcalm_lappy> Did the same last night with steak & onion rings, followed by apple crumble
[14:45] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: <to quote weird Al> "Eat it, just eat it eat it ha"
[14:46] <Dave2> deep fried oimon.
[14:46] <Dave2> on a stick.
[14:46] <christel> AlanBell: did we settle on a lunch venue for tomorrow? :)
[14:47] <oimon> i hate the ubiquity bug where the details terminal window is too small and you can't see why the installation has stalled
[14:48] <christel> deep fried onion..
[14:48] <christel> surely that works? arent onion rings deep fried?
[14:48] <bigcalm_lappy> Yes
[14:48] <Dave2> Yes, but they're rings
[14:48] <Dave2> not cubes
[14:48] <christel> haha
[14:48] <Dave2> A lot more batter/less onion
[14:48] <Dave2> Unless they're tiny cubes
[14:49] <christel> *nod*
[14:51]  * bigcalm_lappy looks at the cake infront of him
[14:51] <bigcalm_lappy> Ug
[14:52] <christel> the cake makes you ug?!
[14:52] <MartijnVdS> Ugg cake
[14:54] <bigcalm_lappy> christel: I was already full of tasty burger before I started on the cake
[14:54] <bigcalm_lappy> MartijnVdS: anything like Ugg Boots?
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_lappy: probably
[14:54]  * bigcalm_lappy nods
[14:56] <christel> ah i had biscuits for lunch
[14:56] <christel> i was going to have pasta
[14:56] <christel> only by the time i remembered that i was cooking pasta it had been boiling away for 40 minutes
[14:56] <christel> (duh)
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> VERY soft pasta :)
[15:00] <bigcalm_lappy> Whoops
[15:00]  * AlanBell checks the weather forecast for tomorrow
[15:00] <AlanBell> looks nice and sunny
[15:00] <davmor2> AlanBell: I can tell you now there will be weather
[15:01] <AlanBell> looks like a nice day for sitting outside
[15:02] <popey> ☹
[15:02]  * popey will be sitting inside a crematorium ☹
[15:02] <bigcalm_lappy> :(
[15:07] <BigRedS> fI used to have a Firefox plugin that'd tell me which bits of a page took how long to download and render. Anyone know what it was? I Can't find it in the Add-ons search thing...
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: firebug
[15:08] <bigcalm_lappy> BigRedS: fire bug
[15:08] <bigcalm_lappy> Then look in the Net tab
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> and Yahoo made a plugin for that.. uhr.. yslow
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/yslow/
[15:09] <bigcalm_lappy> Is pagespeed another one?
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> could be
[15:09] <bigcalm_lappy> Or is that just a google made apache mod?
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> sounds like it anyway :)
[15:10] <christel> AlanBell: yeah it is supposed to be lovely!
[15:10] <christel> popey: that does not sound like the best place to spend the day :/
[15:10] <popey> indeed
[15:10] <popey> my best friends' mum ☹
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> :(
[15:12] <BigRedS> Oh! I didn't realise Firebug did that
[15:12] <BigRedS> pagespeed is an Apache mod
[15:12] <bigcalm_lappy> That's what I thought
[15:13] <bigcalm_lappy> One that looked good for a while but ended up caining my server and breaking my websites
[15:13] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:14] <christel> popey: i am sorry to hear that
[15:16] <brobostigon> is it possible, to link the calendar dropdown, in unity's data time applet, to google calendar?
[15:19] <popey> yes
[15:19] <brobostigon> how?
[15:20] <popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GoogleCalendarWithEvolution
[15:21] <brobostigon> thank you popey, but last time i tried, evolution didnt scale on my eeepc's screen, and was unable to set it up.
[15:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Ask chrisccoulson to do the same with Lightning will you? ;-)
[15:21] <popey> brobostigon: you only need evolution to setup the connection
[15:21] <popey> you could plug in an external display temporarily ☺
[15:22] <brobostigon> popey: that would be possible, yes.
[15:25] <gord> there used to be some kind of smaller mode for evolution
[15:25] <gord> evolution express maybe? something like that
[15:25] <brobostigon> i will look,
[15:28] <bittin> Hello, somone else have more problems with fan noise in the Pangolin beta?
[15:32] <czajkowski> nope
[15:32] <czajkowski> what kinda problems
[15:33] <bittin> czajkowski: fan sound started to get louder but can be my fan in this 2-3year old pc thats started behave wierd
[15:33] <bittin> also alt + tab don't work but that is already reported by people: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/955859
[15:41] <bigcalm_lappy> I've broken davmor2
[15:41] <czajkowski> oh dear
[15:41] <czajkowski> why....
[15:41] <bigcalm_lappy> It's quite amusing
[15:42] <bigcalm_lappy> Looks like he's about to start drooling
[15:42] <bigcalm_lappy> He was trying to remember how old he was in 2001
[15:42] <AlanBell> bittin: is your CPU activity really high for some reason? that might make it run hot which will speed the fan up
[15:43] <bigcalm_lappy> Stack over flow I'm guessing ;)
[15:43] <AlanBell> christel: TheOpenSourcerer: if it is sunny I like the idea of the shepherd & flock
[15:43] <AlanBell> and it looks like it will be nice
[15:43] <bittin> AlanBell: no my load is 0.5
[15:43] <bittin> and htop says 8 and 6 %
[15:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: christel - Yeah - we can breath in the fumes from the traffic on the roundabout ;-)
[15:47]  * bigcalm_lappy pokes Rackspace support with a stick
[15:47] <bittin> root@ubuntu:/home/bittin# fancontrol
[15:47] <bittin> Loading configuration from /etc/fancontrol ...
[15:47] <bittin> Error: Can't read configuration file
[15:47] <bittin> wonder if that has anything to do with it or if iam thinking wrong
[15:48] <christel> AlanBell: sounds good to me, will it be dreadfully noisy? :)
[15:50] <bittin> fan1:        1255 RPM
[15:50] <bittin> fan2:        1010 RPM
[15:50] <bittin> Core 0:       +43.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
[15:50] <bittin> Core 1:       +40.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
[16:03] <bittin> Ubuntu 12.04 beta 1 works better then i tough it would on this box :p
[16:05] <bigcalm_lappy> Was that an /amsg ?
[16:26] <AlanBell> christel: the beer garden behind the pub is not at all noisy
[16:27] <christel> ooh there's one tucked away behind as well, i assumed it was just the seats you can see when you drive past!
[16:28] <AlanBell> yup, there are seats front and back
[16:28] <oimon> gnome-panel on 12.04 is almost awesome :D
[17:31]  * AlanBell installs Oracle 11g :(
[17:32]  * MartijnVdS cries for AlanBell 
[18:47] <jacobw> evening
[18:48] <ali1234> what's a virtual dedicated server?
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's virtually dedicated
[18:49] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/zqb84.jpg
[18:49] <daftykins> aww yeah learning to snowboard <3
[18:49] <daftykins> :D
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: that looks like an unhealthy relationship
[18:51] <daftykins> the board, it beats me
[18:51] <daftykins> D:
[18:54] <jacobw> ali1234: perhaps it means not-a-container
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/gvGKk.jpg
[18:58] <ali1234> wat
[19:00] <daftykins> O_O
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> No?
[19:08] <daftykins> may go to my local tonight to watch over the students playing the quiz
[19:08] <daftykins> maybe this time i'll shut up and not make a team win by giving two answers right at the end
[19:08] <daftykins> they grabbed their winnings said bye to me and left! :O
[19:08] <jacobw> :o
[19:08] <jacobw> students..
[19:09] <daftykins> indeed
[19:09] <daftykins> though, i was one just 4 years ago
[19:09] <daftykins> so i'm currently the "why is he so young" shifty regular sat at the bar talking to strangers
[19:09] <daftykins> :>
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> "Get of my lawn!"
[19:10] <daftykins> well technically i'm the outsider here in England
[19:10] <daftykins> :D
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: isn't England your lawn? :)
[19:10] <daftykins> only forced to be here to fix up and sell my house ¬_¬
[19:10] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: no sir
[19:10] <daftykins> i'm a Guernsey man
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> not-quite-Frenchman ;)
[19:12] <daftykins> precisely!
[19:12] <daftykins> French-mutation as my dear Irish friend puts it
[19:48]  * dwatkins is a foreignner everywhere
[19:49] <daftykins> dwatkins: how's that?
[19:50] <daftykins> nm must go - pub quiz o'clock!
[19:51] <dwatkins> ciao daftykins
[19:51] <dwatkins> (born in Switzerland, grew up in England, living in Scotland)
[19:51] <daftykins> ah-har! :)
[19:54]  * AlanBell boots Oracle Enterprise Linux
[19:58] <popey> unlucky
[19:58]  * MartijnVdS hands AlanBell something to collect his tears in
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> or with
[19:59] <AlanBell> the buttons are on the wrong side!
[19:59] <hamitron> they are right?
[20:11] <TonyNorfolk> hello
[20:12] <AlanBell> !ping
[20:12] <AlanBell> BT Wholesale has hijacked my browser connection
[20:13] <popey> hello TonyNorfolk
[20:13] <dwatkins> Taking Red Hats trademarks off Red Hat to make Oracle Linux seems a little cheeky.
[20:13] <dwatkins> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=oracle says they do this anyway
[20:13] <TonyNorfolk> Hello, does anyone have any idea why GParted Editor wont load?
[20:13] <ali1234> is it possible to share links to u1 music store?
[20:13] <popey> dwatkins: centos do it
[20:13] <popey> ali1234: it used to be, yes
[20:13] <ali1234> used to be?
[20:13] <ali1234> why isn't it any more?
[20:13] <popey> dunno if it still is
[20:13] <dwatkins> popey: oh I thought Centos was kinda like opensuse to suse/sles, the test version
[20:13] <AlanBell> http://62.6.38.125/index.html the whole web redirects there on port 80 right now
[20:13] <ali1234> oh, ok
[20:13] <popey> dwatkins: no, centos is just like oracle
[20:13] <ali1234> well, how do i do it?
[20:14] <dwatkins> I see, popey :)
[20:14] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: do you get an error from it?
[20:14] <popey> and scientific linux
[20:15] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: I am a new Ubuntu user - 1 week! and loving it.  I click on the GParted Icon and it comes up with the authenticate message, I put my password in and then nothing happens.
[20:16] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: cool, welcome :) are you running off a USB stick/CD image, or have you installed to your hard drive?
[20:16] <ali1234> dwatkins: sles->opensuse, red hat->fedora
[20:17] <dwatkins> today I learned that centos isn't what I thought it was and that my bicycle light is pretty useless in the dark :)
[20:17] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: a complete install on my hard drive.  I am running 11.10
[20:17] <ali1234> see also debian->ubuntu
[20:19] <Azelphur> Fun programming question, in PHP what would be faster, Loading a 64x32 image file locally, cutting a part out and upscaling it to 88x88, or caching the 88x88 image on disk?
[20:19] <ali1234> u1 doesn't have the album i wanted to link anyway :(
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: caching, but only do that if performance is actually an issue
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also: always use a profiler :)
[20:20] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, I'm trying to write things as if performance was an issue :P
[20:20] <ali1234> is this for a website?
[20:20] <Azelphur> yes
[20:20] <ali1234> cache it then
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: caching would also make it cacheable on the remote end
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> (easier)
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> which would be a plus
[20:21] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: I'm just installing gparted on my Ubuntu virtual machine, have you tried running it from the terminal?
[20:21] <ali1234> why you even doing this?
[20:21] <ali1234> need more information
[20:21] <popey> found it
[20:21] <popey> https://one.ubuntu.com/music/l/1501818/0
[20:21] <popey> no idea how you get that link though ☺
[20:21] <ali1234> blah
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> This song is not available to buy from the Ubuntu One Music Store in your country. Sorry!
[20:21] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: i.e. by typing: gksu gparted
[20:22] <ali1234> so i open the dash, click the musical note thingy, search for album
[20:22] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: no i haven't - i'll try that
[20:22] <Azelphur> ali1234: minecraft avatars
[20:22] <ali1234> now i want to send the link to my buddy on facebook
[20:22] <ali1234> wat do?
[20:22] <Azelphur> download skin -> cut the face out -> upscale to a viewable size
[20:22] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: thanks :)
[20:22] <ali1234> Azelphur: send whole image to client, have the client do it in javascript
[20:23] <ali1234> i'll post my u1 question on askubuntu actually
[20:23] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: this is my error message
[20:23] <Azelphur> ali1234: I tried that but the problem is some browsers like to scale images differently
[20:23] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins:(gksu:16337): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "pixmap",
[20:23] <Azelphur> ali1234: like chrome blurs the image in a horrible manner
[20:23] <ali1234> chrome sucks
[20:24] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: a quick search online suggests you need to install gtk2-engines-pixbuf
[20:24] <dwatkins> I shall return shortly.
[20:24] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: ok, ill search with synaptic
[20:28] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/115211/how-do-i-share-links-to-album-in-the-u1-music-store
[20:30] <ali1234> btw is anyone esle getting this error
[20:30] <ali1234> Error while getting credentials: The '/org/freedesktop/secrets/collection/login/8' object does not exist
[20:30] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: installed that, in terminal the command promt blinks for 2 or 3 seconds before completing - but nothing happens
[20:30] <ali1234> while trying to open music store?
[20:30] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: there is no error message now but still no program?
[20:31] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: what are you trying to run?
[20:31] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: when opening in unity the authenticate pops up but nothing starts when i enter my password
[20:31] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: gparted
[20:31] <ali1234> ok, on terminal:
[20:31] <ali1234> gksudo gparted
[20:32] <AlanBell> anyone know anything about Oracle? Specifically how to import a .dmp file in the enterprise manager web console thing
[20:32] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: just tried that, thanks but still nothing
[20:32] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: ok, try this
[20:34] <ali1234> er, how do you get a shell prmpt with gksudo?
[20:35] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: nothing came up after you typed ok, try this?
[20:35] <ali1234> yeah i didnt type anything yet
[20:36] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: oh sorry ;-)
[20:36] <ali1234> gksudo strace gparted 2> /tmp/output.txt
[20:36] <ali1234> try that
[20:38] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: ok but nothing seemed to happen - has that saved a txt file
[20:38] <ali1234> yes
[20:39] <ali1234> what is in the text file?
[20:40] <TonyNorfolk> ok your probably bang your head off a wall - but how do I find that?
[20:41] <ali1234> xdg-open /tmp/output.txt
[20:42] <ali1234> don't paste it here though
[20:42] <ali1234> just tell me if it's empty, or ctains lots of stuff
[20:42] <TonyNorfolk> it is completely blank
[20:43] <ali1234> hmm
[20:43] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: really appreciate your help here
[20:43] <ali1234> are you sure gparted is installed?
[20:43] <popey> it isnt by default
[20:43] <popey> its on the live cd, but it gets removed I _think_
[20:43] <TonyNorfolk> yep it is in synaptic i check which version
[20:43] <ali1234> yeah i know i just had to install it :)
[20:44] <popey> yeah, my machine doesnt have it
[20:44] <popey> TonyNorfolk: did you "apply" in synaptic?
[20:44] <popey> to install it
[20:44] <TonyNorfolk> 0.8.1-1ubutu4 and it has a green box
[20:45] <bittin> was trying to carry home a Sun Blade 2000 on the subway and failed so hard so i dropped it off in the bushes atleast got a hot usb mouse
[20:45] <TonyNorfolk> popey: yes i have applied - when I select it the apply is now greyed out
[20:45] <ali1234> gksudo appears to be hiding the error message when a program isn't installed
[20:46] <ali1234> argh what package is gksudo in?
[20:47] <TonyNorfolk> is the same thing happening to you ali1234
[20:47] <ali1234> is gksudo even the recommended way to run X11 apps as root?
[20:47] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: sort of
[20:47] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: what happens if you just run "gparted" without gksudo?
[20:48] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: that is comforting as I thought it was my system
[20:48] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: this stuff used to work until *somebody* decided ubutu was too complicated, and promptly broke it all
[20:49] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234:do you mean type, gksu gparted?
[20:49] <ali1234> no
[20:49] <ali1234> just gparted
[20:49] <TonyNorfolk> Root privileges are required for running gparted.
[20:49] <TonyNorfolk> /usr/sbin/gpartedbin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[20:50] <ali1234> ah there's your problem
[20:50] <TonyNorfolk> how do I get root privileges?
[20:50] <ali1234> with gksu
[20:50] <ali1234> or gksudo
[20:51] <ali1234> but the library error will still happen, you just wont see it
[20:51] <ali1234> because gksu/gksudo is eating the error message
[20:51] <ali1234> which is a bug
[20:51] <TonyNorfolk> right I'm now with you - you lost me back there
[20:52] <ali1234> do this:
[20:52] <TonyNorfolk> do I need to install the libraries?
[20:52] <ali1234> sudo apt-get install libgtkmm-2.4
[20:53] <popey> interesting, how would that have happened
[20:53] <ali1234> no idea
[20:53] <popey> unless ubuntu-desktop or something is missing
[20:53] <TonyNorfolk> they are loading in now
[20:54] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bug/962528
[20:55] <TonyNorfolk> have I done something wrong - I originally installed gparted from the software centre.  it didn't work so I unistalled using synaptic and the reinstalled it again, but it still didn't work.
[20:55] <TonyNorfolk> thanks ali1234 I will go to launchpad and click that it also affects me
[20:55] <ali1234> ah
[20:56] <ali1234> synaptic and software centre seem to be diverging on their dependency algorithms. see previous comment about breaking everything
[20:56] <TonyNorfolk> right that has finished ali1234 - but I don't want to do anything until you say
[20:57] <ali1234> just try to run gparted again without gksu
[20:57] <AlanBell> yay, I think my oracle import is happening \o/
[20:57] <ali1234> if it has another missing library, install it
[20:57] <ali1234> repeat
[20:57] <ali1234> when you get no errors except "you must be root" then run it with gksu or gksudo
[21:00] <popey> what is responsible for drawing context menus?
[21:00] <popey> is it compiz?
[21:00] <TonyNorfolk> Root privileges are required for running gparted.
[21:00] <TonyNorfolk> /usr/sbin/gpartedbin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[21:01] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234: it couldn't find the library
[21:01] <ali1234> hmmmm
[21:01] <ali1234> what version of ubuntu?
[21:02] <TonyNorfolk> 11.10
[21:02] <ali1234> maybe run ldconfig and try again
[21:02] <ali1234> though that shouldn't be necessary
[21:02] <ali1234> hmm 32 bit or 64 bit install?
[21:04] <TonyNorfolk> 32 bit
[21:05] <AlanBell> oracle 11g really is a huge steaming pile of dogs droppings disguised as a database
[21:06] <TonyNorfolk> still nothing - so frustrating
[21:06] <ali1234> yeah something really is wrong with your system
[21:07] <ali1234> it might even be a different library to the one it claims due to the way linking works
[21:08] <TonyNorfolk> o.k should I just uninstall gparted
[21:08] <ali1234> that would be giving up
[21:08] <popey> ali1234: bug 962545
[21:08] <TonyNorfolk> I don't want to give up
[21:08] <popey> seen that?
[21:09] <popey> AlanBell: very little competition
[21:09] <ali1234> popey: i have not seen that. i haven't updated for a week or so though
[21:10] <AlanBell> I think I would rather just remember all the data than put it in Oracle
[21:10] <TonyNorfolk> is there anything I can run to check my system
[21:10] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: yes. too many in fact
[21:10] <ali1234> the trick is knowing where to start
[21:11] <TonyNorfolk> I really don't know anything so would need guidance - but I'm worried about taking up so much of your time for something as small as Gparted
[21:13] <dwatkins> ali1234: it appears 'gksu' as replaced 'gksudo'
[21:13] <ali1234> yeah, bug affects both though
[21:14] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: ok first of all please install a program called pastebinit if you have not already
[21:15] <TonyNorfolk> just done that
[21:16] <ali1234> ok do this: ldd /usr/sbin/gpartedbin | pastebinit
[21:16] <ali1234> then paste here the url it prints out
[21:17] <TonyNorfolk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/895668/
[21:18] <ali1234> so line 3 and 5 indicates two missing libraries
[21:19] <ali1234> open up synaptic and find the first one
[21:19] <TonyNorfolk> yeah I just noticed that but I installed that with you
[21:19] <TonyNorfolk> will
[21:19] <TonyNorfolk> do
[21:19] <ali1234> note that there's two versions
[21:19] <ali1234> 2.4 and 3.something
[21:20] <popey> i would do the magic "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" :D
[21:20] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: by the way, if you know the name of a file you need, you can search for it with 'apt-file' (assuming that's installed) in case it's not clear what package it's a part of - use with caution, though
[21:21] <ali1234> ah i think my system has the same problem
[21:21] <ali1234> or similar
[21:21] <ali1234> i keep seeing this in synaptic
[21:21] <ali1234> where a library is marked as installed
[21:21] <ali1234> but when i click properties and go to "installed files" tab
[21:21] <ali1234> it says "installed files only available for packages that are installed"
[21:21] <ali1234> and the library doesn't work
[21:21] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: thanks
[21:22] <ali1234> TonyNorfolk: so what happens when you go do that?
[21:22] <TonyNorfolk> the .so.1 extension - I take it i dont need that
[21:23] <ali1234> make sure that the libgdkmm-2.4 is installed too
[21:23] <ali1234> d not t
[21:24] <TonyNorfolk> nothing comes up for libgdkmm-2.4 in synaptic
[21:25] <TonyNorfolk> for libgtdkmm there are four of them and they show as installed
[21:25] <ali1234> in synaptic right click on the package and select properties
[21:25] <ali1234> then go to installed files
[21:27] <TonyNorfolk> I have done that
[21:27] <ali1234> one of the files should say libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
[21:27] <ali1234> where is it?
[21:28] <TonyNorfolk> I am looking in libgtkmm-2.4-dev and cant find .so.1 - there is a .so thoght
[21:29] <ali1234> where is that?
[21:29] <ali1234> wait not dev
[21:29] <ali1234> the other one
[21:29] <TonyNorfolk> the 2.4c2a
[21:29] <ali1234> yeah
[21:29] <TonyNorfolk> the 2.4-1c2a
[21:29] <TonyNorfolk> yeah ok got it
[21:30] <ali1234> so what is the full path?
[21:30] <TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgdkmm-2.4.so.1
[21:30] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: how was your Ubuntu system installed? You appear to be missing some packages, and I'm wondering why.
[21:30] <TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
[21:30] <ali1234> dwatkins: the packages are not missing, they are clearly installed as this indicates :)
[21:30] <TonyNorfolk> from a cd, but I had a nightmare with GRUB and partitioning my driv
[21:31] <ali1234> ok so in terminal run file /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
[21:33] <TonyNorfolk> am i meant to put another command before file?
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> no, "file" is the command you're running
[21:33] <ali1234> no put exactly what i said
[21:33] <TonyNorfolk> tony@AW2012:~$ file /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
[21:33] <TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: ERROR: cannot open `/usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1' (No such file or directory)
[21:33] <TonyNorfolk> tony@AW2012:~$
[21:34] <ali1234> so the package is installed but the files are missing
[21:34] <TonyNorfolk> how can that be
[21:34] <ali1234> no idea but here we are
[21:34] <TonyNorfolk> do I reinstall these from somewhere
[21:35] <TonyNorfolk> in synaptic? or would that not replace the files
[21:36] <ali1234> synaptic won't
[21:36] <ali1234> sudo apt-get --reinstall install libgtkmm-2.4
[21:36] <TonyNorfolk> mmm knew it couldn't be simple lol
[21:38] <TonyNorfolk> thats done ali
[21:40] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234:
[21:40] <ali1234> did it work?
[21:40] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234:tony@AW2012:~$ file /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1
[21:40] <TonyNorfolk> /usr/lib/libgtkmm-2.4.so.1: symbolic link to `libgtkmm-2.4.so.1.1.0'
[21:40] <ali1234> so try running it again
[21:40] <TonyNorfolk> is that right
[21:40] <ali1234> yeah looks right
[21:40] <TonyNorfolk> with gksu
[21:40] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: which exact package did you install, as I have four which have libgtkmm-2.4 in the tite
[21:41] <ali1234> dwatkins: the package must have been installed for the file path to appear in synaptic
[21:41] <dwatkins> you could check this with: dpkg -l | grep libgtkmm-2.4
[21:41] <dwatkins> ali1234: oh right, sorry, of course
[21:42] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: it was the one with -1c2a
[21:42] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: ok cool, that's the same one I have installed
[21:43] <TonyNorfolk> BRILLIANT ALI1234 IT IS WORKING
[21:43] <TonyNorfolk> THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH
[21:43] <TonyNorfolk> YOU HAVE SHOWN ME SOME USEFUL TOOLS TOO
[21:43] <TonyNorfolk> THANKS DWATKINS ALSO
[21:43]  * dwatkins hands TonyNorfolk a pint of ribena and a new caps lock key ;)
[21:44] <ali1234> you should watch out for files going missing
[21:44] <ali1234> it isn't normal
[21:44] <ali1234> may indicate filesystem troubles ahead
[21:44] <ali1234> or maybe an update just messed everything up
[21:44] <dwatkins> or disk failure, although that should be written in a great big message somewhere
[21:44] <ali1234> check dmesg
[21:46] <TonyNorfolk> ok - thanks ali - I really need to learn the terminal
[21:47] <TonyNorfolk> Dwatkins: Ali1234: when I installed Ubuntu I had trouble with my partitions and it failed to install twice.
[21:47] <TonyNorfolk> I had to resize my partitions in Windows (ahhh) and then try again
[21:48] <TonyNorfolk> maybe that corrupted something
[21:48] <dwatkins> hmmm, that shouldn't lead to random files missing, TonyNorfolk, but perhaps it's related
[21:48] <dwatkins> as ali1234 suggests, run 'dmesg' in a terminal to see if there are errors reported in the messages since last boot
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> oops
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> I just checked terminal and although gparted has loaded it says this
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> tony@AW2012:~$ gksu gparted
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> [21:49] <TonyNorfolk> libparted : 2.3
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> [21:49] <TonyNorfolk> parted was unable to re-read the partition table on /dev/mapper/isw_hbafcagfj_ARRAY (Device or resource busy).  This means Linux won't know anything about the modifications you made.
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> Cannot have a partition outside the disk!
[21:49] <TonyNorfolk> /dev/sdb: unrecognised disk label
[21:50] <TonyNorfolk> what do I do
[21:50] <dwatkins> probably best to use pastebin for that, TonyNorfolk
[21:50] <dwatkins> anything over a single line is best not pasted straight into the IRC channel
[21:50] <TonyNorfolk> oh, ok sorry
[21:50] <ali1234> sounds like your partitioning is a bit messed up
[21:54] <TonyNorfolk> Yes, on Gpated it is show errors on two arrays
[21:55] <dwatkins> did you get it to repartition automatically when you installed this time around, TonyNorfolk?
[21:56] <TonyNorfolk> no - it never gave me that option.
[21:56] <dwatkins> hmmm, it should have let you choose where to install
[21:57] <TonyNorfolk> yes I selected the new partition I created with partition manager in windows, but I still had to manually install it there.  Allocate a swap space etc... which to be honest I didn't really know what I was doing
[21:58] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: are you good with partitions?
[21:59] <TonyNorfolk> I was going to take a screenshot of what I have
[21:59] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: I wouldn't say they're my bestest friends, but I know them reasonably well
[21:59] <TonyNorfolk> can I sent a screenshot
[21:59] <TonyNorfolk> send
[22:00] <dwatkins> you shouldn't need to use windows to partition for an Ubuntu installation
[22:00] <dwatkins> it might be easier to re-do it from scratch, i.e. let it wipe the disk and put a standard partition layout on
[22:00] <TonyNorfolk> I am now in Gparted
[22:01] <dwatkins> you won't be able to change anything if you're booted from the disk itself, you'd need to completely wipe and reinstall to change/correct the partition layout
[22:01] <TonyNorfolk> ok
[22:01] <dwatkins> http://www.futuredesktop.org/oneiric/images/picture-3c.png - this is what you should see during install after bootingt from a USB stick and starting the installer
[22:01] <dwatkins> http://www.futuredesktop.org/ might be worth a read, seems to be a fairly good tutorial on the process
[22:02] <dwatkins> do you want any other operating system on the same disk, for dual-booting etc., TonyNorfolk?
[22:03] <TonyNorfolk> yes that why I never selected that option.
[22:03] <TonyNorfolk> I have to leave windows on here for my kids
[22:03] <dwatkins> ok, so you have Windows on the other half of the disk?
[22:03] <TonyNorfolk> yes
[22:03] <TonyNorfolk> but for me Ubuntu is going to be my primary system
[22:04] <dwatkins> yeah, I used to have a similar setup
[22:04] <ali1234> i highly recommend moving windows to a virtual machine inside linux
[22:04] <ali1234> it is much better than dual booting
[22:04] <ali1234> for several reasons
[22:04] <ali1234> not least that you can run them at the same time
[22:04] <dwatkins> I respectfully disagree, ali1234, if it's for gaming running Windows natively will be much faster
[22:05] <ali1234> if you are gaming use wine
[22:05] <ali1234> for everything else use virtualbox
[22:06] <dwatkins> if it's just for Windows applications, like MS Office, yeah
[22:06] <ali1234> or adobe stuff
[22:06] <dwatkins> I've not had much success with Wine, I guess.
[22:06] <ali1234> wine is only really usable for games
[22:06] <dwatkins> heh, I run all that on my work laptop ;)
[22:06] <dwatkins> last time I checked the Wine HQ database for a game, it told me that Sim City 2000 has a bug in saving the city where it crashes
[22:07] <ali1234> the dos version works well in dosbox
[22:07] <ali1234> that's a windows 3.1 game anyway
[22:07] <dwatkins> yeah, fair enough
[22:07] <dwatkins> I think it ran ok on Windows 95, but I see your point
[22:08] <ali1234> you might not get that one exact game you wat
[22:08] <ali1234> but there certainly a LOT of games that work in wine
[22:08] <ali1234> anything popular for example
[22:08] <ali1234> WoW, anything based on source...
[22:08] <dwatkins> neat
[22:08] <ali1234> valve source
[22:08] <ali1234> not open source
[22:08] <dwatkins> I wonder if Homeworld 2 will run on my Mac...
[22:09] <TonyNorfolk> you both have so much experience in linux - makes me envious
[22:09] <dwatkins> yeah, I guessed you meant that
[22:09] <ali1234> that's pretty much 99% of gamers
[22:09] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: just takes time, is all
[22:09] <ali1234> honestly i think you'd struggle to run sc2000 on windows 7 or w/e
[22:09] <dwatkins> ali1234: L4D2 is probably the same engine too
[22:09] <ali1234> yes it is
[22:09] <ali1234> dunno if it works... azelphur would know he's the source expert :)
[22:10] <dwatkins> I'd run Sim City in Boxer/DOSbox but the resolution is awful ;)
[22:10] <ali1234> tf2 certainly works
[22:10] <Azelphur> source questions o.O
[22:10] <ali1234> and so does portal
[22:10] <Azelphur> what are we asking?
[22:10] <ali1234> just saying, all the most popular games work in wine
[22:10] <dwatkins> will L4D2 run in Ubuntu in Wine and on OS X in Wine?
[22:11] <Azelphur> Yes but it has performance issues
[22:11] <dwatkins> ok cool
[22:11] <ali1234> steam officially supports OS X for some games now, check
[22:11] <dwatkins> actually, there's an OS X port of it, so that's less of an issue ;)
[22:11] <Azelphur> If you have a pretty beefy machine it'll run ok on minimum settings
[22:11] <dwatkins> hehe
[22:11] <ali1234> (it uses cider, which is based on wine)
[22:12] <dwatkins> so, in summary: Wine is better than it used to be when I last tried using it :)
[22:13] <Azelphur> yep
[22:13] <Azelphur> wine is always rapid improvement
[22:13] <popey> steam on osx uses cider!?
[22:13] <popey> I thought it was native
[22:14] <dwatkins> heh, good job I didn't uninstall macports...
[22:14] <Azelphur> yea I thought it was native too
[22:14] <Azelphur> perhaps that's why we arn't getting a -opengl switch :(
[22:14] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: I was going to say: there are lots of tutorials on how to setup dual-booted systems, should be fairly straightforward given you have Windows on there already
[22:15] <ali1234> if you like sim city you'll love dwarf fortress, which has a native linux version
[22:15] <dwatkins> ooh
[22:16] <ali1234> get the graphics pack though or you'll go ascii-blind
[22:16] <dwatkins> oh my, yes - see what you mean
[22:17] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins: yeah I looked into it a lot when I installed Ubuntu - but my partitions were so messed up and I wasn't sure about which array was which etc. when I went to the install screen.  I think I will take your advice - I'm just backing up all my personal files at the moment
[22:17] <dwatkins> TonyNorfolk: yeah, having at least two backups is always a good plan :)
[22:20] <ali1234> popey: i don't know if it's for all games but certainly for some
[22:22] <ali1234> or maybe i imagined it
[22:24]  * AlanBell has data in oracle \o/
[22:24] <AlanBell> all I need to do now is get it out again
[22:24] <ali1234> hmm skyrim is rated gold on winehq
[22:24] <ali1234> i bet it's not really gold
[22:52] <TonyNorfolk> bye all
[22:52] <TonyNorfolk> ali1234:thanks again
[22:52] <TonyNorfolk> dwatkins:thanks again
[23:14] <Laney> gah
[23:14] <Laney> how do people use the www without adblock?
[23:14] <Laney> first link goes to a page with an advert that automatically starts playing sound