| len_ | knome, 520 pix ends up too much. The slideshow test is not valid for what really happens... nother bug. | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| knome | len_, fsst. | 00:03 |
| knome | i'm not sure if i'm willing to file another UIFe for that | 00:03 |
| len_ | At least with 520, it was obvious that there was something going on below as I could see the top half of the text. | 00:03 |
| knome | okay | 00:03 |
| knome | that worksforme for P | 00:03 |
| knome | it's so much easier to fix this for Q | 00:03 |
| len_ | The scroll bars where not there for all the slides. | 00:04 |
| knome | okay, weird | 00:04 |
| knome | well, not really | 00:04 |
| knome | but that shouldn't happen at all | 00:05 |
| len_ | Yeah, my Yf needed some time with me and then the install was over so I didn't look at it real well. | 00:05 |
| len_ | I have just dropped ubuntudesktop on a stick and will see what that does | 00:05 |
| astraljava | Yf? You have a Yeti-friend? | 00:05 |
| len_ | Says the Y sound the f Yf = wife | 00:06 |
| knome | omg | 00:06 |
| knome | nerdspeadk | 00:06 |
| knome | -d | 00:06 |
| len_ | Old ham speak I think | 00:06 |
| knome | at least i didn't typo that as nerdspeakd, a deamon for that would be scary | 00:06 |
| knome | hmph. | 00:08 |
| len_ | I will try to get some screen shots during install this time... and do a second US install as well. | 00:08 |
| knome | let's say i'll think of fixing that after beta2. | 00:08 |
| knome | it's not critical, so i might just leave it | 00:09 |
| len_ | It is probably ok for the bootmenu install because I don't think there is a top panel getting in the way. | 00:09 |
| knome | bootmenu? :) | 00:10 |
| knome | right, you mean the *actual* installation? | 00:10 |
| len_ | Yeah do thingy that says test without installing or install. | 00:10 |
| knome | right | 00:11 |
| len_ | I have been installing from live session... as I would think most people would do that... otherwise why have live DVD? | 00:11 |
| knome | len_, i don't think that's either-or | 00:11 |
| knome | somebody might use the live dvd to actually work on things | 00:12 |
| knome | but that works for the person just wanting to install too | 00:12 |
| knome | and with live, you can check if your hardware works | 00:12 |
| len_ | Yup once you up live and go "ok I like this" it makes sense to just install rather than reboot to install. is what I meant... I think | 00:13 |
| knome | yeah. | 00:14 |
| knome | but since ubuntu studio only provides one method, there's no alternative. so those just wanting to install will use the same build too | 00:14 |
| knome | no good reason to provide something else for that, it would just mean more work :) | 00:15 |
| astraljava | Sure, but that'd be the first-time trial use-case only. I wouldn't think anyone wanting to boot to a live session just to install on possibly another machine, or re-install, or whatever. | 00:15 |
| knome | yup | 00:16 |
| astraljava | ...which is why I'm testing the straight-to-install use-case, mostly. | 00:16 |
| knome | otoh, the first-time trial is probably the time you want to look at the slideshow, too | 00:16 |
| astraljava | len_: Looks like it's getting past all ubiquity hangs, now. Do we have a winner on our hands? | 00:19 |
| astraljava | knome: Sure. | 00:19 |
| knome | i will rest a few nights well before filing any more Fe's :) | 00:21 |
| knome | bleh. | 00:22 |
| * knome will take backups | 00:22 | |
| astraljava | I won't give any. | 00:23 |
| astraljava | *blink* *blink* | 00:23 |
| knome | awwhm :P | 00:23 |
| astraljava | Yeah, it boots! But it looks weird. | 00:23 |
| knome | astraljava, you looking at a mirror? | 00:23 |
| astraljava | len_: You have battled the UI with ScottL, right? Can you move on those issues? | 00:24 |
| astraljava | knome: I don't have boots. | 00:24 |
| knome | but you probably can boot | 00:24 |
| knome | and, you just agreed you look weird. gotcha. | 00:24 |
| astraljava | ...yo 4$$, for sure. | 00:24 |
| knome | well that's not too hard | 00:24 |
| knome | there's plenty of area to land the kick | 00:25 |
| * astraljava tiptoes around the subject, but decides to leave it untouched. | 00:25 | |
| astraljava | Take that as you wish. | 00:26 |
| knome | probably best | 00:26 |
| astraljava | Ok, I think that'll do for this session. I'm heading for some zzz's. Catch ya later. | 00:26 |
| ScottL | astraljava, i'm not sure i understand what you are asking? | 00:26 |
| knome | good night! | 00:26 |
| knome | going to file one more RT ticket today... | 00:27 |
| ScottL | i'm burning an image now that i've zsync'd | 00:27 |
| ScottL | then i'm going down my checklist of things that were supposed to be "fixed" | 00:27 |
| astraljava | ScottL: For instance, the app menu icon: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_20120321.png | 00:28 |
| knome | that's awesome | 00:29 |
| knome | the ubuntu studio has got some great momentum behind that logo change | 00:29 |
| knome | (: | 00:29 |
| astraljava | knome: Remember, I know where you live. | 00:29 |
| knome | hah | 00:29 |
| astraljava | ScottL: Oh, some other issues seem to have disappeared by the time of taking that screen shot, nevermind, that icon thingie is the only one I spot, now. | 00:30 |
| astraljava | But yeah, the zzz's. | 00:30 |
| knome | nighty night | 00:30 |
| ScottL | astraljava, i'm guessing that the default-settings weren't updated yet | 00:34 |
| ScottL | or they were and i forgot to 'bzr add' the image? i dont' think so, i think i just replaced it | 00:34 |
| * knome is available, if you need help with transparent PNGs ;) | 00:38 | |
| ScottL | knome, i don't think so, i made the transparent PNG , built, and tested it | 00:40 |
| ScottL | strange thing is that i'm not seeing my push to the -default-settings package | 00:41 |
| knome | hmm | 00:41 |
| ScottL | wait, maybe i was looking under 'ubuntu' | 00:41 |
| ScottL | hold on | 00:41 |
| knome | heh | 00:41 |
| ScottL | yeah, yeah...i kept looking at the rev number and thinking that wasn't right ;) | 00:42 |
| ScottL | okay, it's there (including janne's changes), just hasn't been updated | 00:43 |
| knome | yup | 00:43 |
| knome | i think i need to hit the bed | 00:43 |
| knome | nothing to do any more | 00:43 |
| knome | well, at least nothing to do today ;) | 00:44 |
| ScottL | goodnight knome | 00:44 |
| knome | good night, or day, to you too scott | 00:45 |
| === holstein_ is now known as holstein | ||
| ScottL | micahg, i touched -default-settings, -look, and -lightdm-theme packages | 03:42 |
| ScottL | micahg, this is basically it for what i'm planning to do now | 03:43 |
| ScottL | i don't expect to touch anything again this cycle unless there is something broken | 03:43 |
| len-nb | Here are some screen shots of the slide show during install. http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/slideSSs.html | 03:43 |
| len-nb | ScottL ^^^ FYI | 03:44 |
| ScottL | oh micahg , i mispoke, i wanted to update the panel layout, which i'll get tomorrow | 03:57 |
| micahg | ScottL: ok, freeze is at 21:00 UTC | 04:00 |
| ScottL | that is in 17 hours +/- | 04:15 |
| micahg | right | 04:15 |
| holstein | w0w | 04:17 |
| holstein | thats exciting! | 04:17 |
| len-nb | This is not for this cycle... but I would be interested in what people think: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/workflow.html | 04:53 |
| micahg | new libav coming, I'm updating the -extra package as well (BTW, extra for the most part will go away in 12.10) | 04:55 |
| len-nb | micahg, extra will go away means "won't be available" or folded in to the normal package? | 05:06 |
| micahg | folded in | 05:06 |
| micahg | already in Debian experimental | 05:06 |
| len-nb | Good | 05:06 |
| ttoine | Hi | 08:29 |
| ScottL | is it normal to get up 1.58 hours earlier than i would (or want) just to get some coding done? | 12:12 |
| ScottL | micahg, i've updated the -default-settings package one more time for panel tweaks | 12:12 |
| ScottL | i couldn't get some of the settings to work as i had wanted (like not raising window when just scrolling on it), but practically everything else was done | 12:13 |
| knome | ScottL, does 1.58 mean 1h 58mins or 1h, 35mins and a few seconds? | 12:15 |
| knome | sorry, 1h, 34mins, ... | 12:15 |
| ScottL | aye, 1 hour and 34 minutes | 12:27 |
| ScottL | i normally get up at 07:00 on tuesdays and thrusday because i get the daughter up and on the bus and take my youngest son to daycare | 12:28 |
| ScottL | i set the alarm for 06:00 thinking that one hour would be enough | 12:28 |
| ScottL | but i woke up somewhere before 5:30, starting thinking about what i needed to do, and couldn't go back to sleep | 12:28 |
| ScottL | i'm glad i did because i would not have had enough time with just 1 hour | 12:28 |
| knome | heh | 12:34 |
| * knome is working on http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_countdown/draft-2.png | 12:34 | |
| len_ | knome ping | 13:11 |
| knome | len_, pong | 13:12 |
| len_ | knome re scroll bars in install slides... I had them show up last night but by the time I could get the menu open to get a screen shot they where gone | 13:12 |
| knome | len_, aha :) | 13:13 |
| len_ | I think they fixed it by looking for them every time the progress area updates and getting rid of them | 13:13 |
| knome | right | 13:13 |
| knome | i see no change in code but - fine :) | 13:14 |
| len_ | Anyway knome, I don't know if you saw them or not, but there are some screen shot of the slide show in an email on our list or in the back scroll on irc. | 13:14 |
| knome | i'll look | 13:15 |
| len_ | Whenever, I gotta eat. | 13:15 |
| knome | that looks good | 13:16 |
| knome | or, that looks as it should :) | 13:16 |
| knome | thanks, and bon appetit | 13:16 |
| ttoine | hi | 13:56 |
| scott-work | hi ttoine :) | 13:58 |
| ttoine | scott-work, what are the news ? | 13:59 |
| scott-work | ttoine: did my final push for this cycle, except for fixing bugs now | 14:00 |
| ttoine | ok | 14:00 |
| ttoine | and what about the kernel ? | 14:00 |
| scott-work | we didn't really hit the goal that i had wanted, but we did accomplish a lot of stuff :) | 14:00 |
| scott-work | ttoine: TheMuso acknowledged the problem and was fixing it | 14:00 |
| ttoine | scott-work, maybe you should write somewhere the goals of your long plan ;-) | 14:05 |
| ttoine | scott-work, I just see that the -lowlatency kernel is in the updates. So it will be my haste of the afternoon to update and test ! | 14:06 |
| scott-work | ttoine: i had meant to have already documented the long plan and publish it for comments/suggestions | 14:07 |
| scott-work | but i've been pretty busy during this cycle | 14:07 |
| scott-work | but now that it's the tail end i should have more time to do this | 14:07 |
| ttoine | ok. so maybe you will have more time after release ? | 14:07 |
| scott-work | i still have some stuff to do (like the website, knome ) but i really have more time now :) | 14:08 |
| ttoine | scott-work, is it something that we can discuss, or you meant it fixed ? | 14:08 |
| scott-work | ttoine: we can absolutely discuss it | 14:08 |
| ttoine | great to know it ;-) | 14:09 |
| scott-work | we have discussed a general direction as a group and we decided that focusing the distro to new users to linux provides the biggest area of opportunity to... | 14:09 |
| scott-work | 1. fill a need | 14:09 |
| scott-work | 2. help make people aware of and use linux (who are not already) | 14:10 |
| scott-work | this doesn't mean we can't provide robust or powerful applications, however | 14:10 |
| scott-work | we will just give extra attention to documentation and simplifying process to make everything as accessible as possible | 14:10 |
| scott-work | i think a mission statement would be helpful to identifying and articulating our goal | 14:11 |
| ttoine | scott-work, this morning I was at a meeting about teaching and producing multimedia with free software, and people were greatly impressed that we can actually do good stuff with quite simple apps, stability and old laptops | 14:13 |
| ttoine | I was pleased to use xfce, too, this morning. | 14:14 |
| ttoine | I hope that this will give me some work | 14:15 |
| scott-work | that is awesome, ttoine :) | 14:16 |
| scott-work | i hope we can continue to provide you the necessary support | 14:16 |
| * scott-work is going to reboot work (windows) computer | 14:16 | |
| ttoine | scott-work, this release of ubuntu studio may be a definitive "foot ahead" for people wanting to show, teach and use free software as an alternative of OS X | 14:20 |
| ailo | ttoine: I'm just about to try the latest -lowlatency myself. It has the right config as expected, so it should perform well | 14:23 |
| ttoine | great to know that | 14:31 |
| ttoine | I am updating my workstation at the moment | 14:31 |
| scott-work | ttoine: i am hoping so, many things needed maintenance because parts were falling apart | 14:36 |
| ttoine | scott-work, yes, it is true. Maybe the only point that would make windows and os x users have a negative point of vue at the first time will be the look and feel of xfce, wich is not really "up to date" | 14:37 |
| scott-work | ttoine: why do you say xfce is not up to date? | 14:38 |
| ttoine | ailo, what is your first impression ? | 14:38 |
| scott-work | i think functionaly (i.e. managing windows, using menus, etc) is comparable to windows (the OS) | 14:39 |
| ailo | ttoine: It's fine for fine | 14:39 |
| scott-work | perhaps the lack of transparent window dressings might cause some to think less of xfce, but it can be done too at a possible cost to performance | 14:39 |
| ttoine | scott-work, xfce is not animated, etc... like os X, for example. and the pannel at the top may be confuse the windows users. I just speak in general term, not telling that xfce is old in the design point of vue | 14:40 |
| scott-work | ttoine: your feedback is quite welcome and appreciated, btw | 14:40 |
| scott-work | i wish we could get other feedback as well | 14:41 |
| ailo | XFCE is probably the best choice for a default WM right now, as the others pose too many problems | 14:41 |
| scott-work | ttoine: what do you think of the bottom part of this page, the UI Layout area? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialOneiric | 14:41 |
| ailo | I myself use Gnome3. On Ubuntu it does yet not have the addon stuff that makes it customizable, like adding a menu to the top bar. Debian testing has recently added that, so it will end up in Ubuntu later on. | 14:43 |
| ailo | Also, it's leaking memory at the moment | 14:44 |
| ttoine | I agree with ailo about the DE choice | 14:44 |
| ttoine | ailo, you should have a look at the linux mint 12 repositories | 14:44 |
| ailo | Too mint for me :) | 14:45 |
| ttoine | but finally, I am well with unity | 14:45 |
| scott-work | ttoine: it sounds like perhaps we should educate new users about our choice of DE as well | 14:46 |
| ttoine | scott-work, for me, the best is the full blue one. bright, clear. It is not because it is production that it must be dark. New users (and I know them well...) will always prefer a bright theme. Dark themes are considered for geeks ;-) | 14:47 |
| ailo | The Ambience theme is a nice combination of ligt and dark. I don't like full dark themes usually, from a practical point of view. | 14:49 |
| ailo | I always prefer the combination of perfect usability with an esthetic touch | 14:49 |
| ttoine | ailo, I agree | 14:50 |
| ttoine | But to create a desktop like that, one has to be an artist, not only a programmer. I hope that we will be able to get that with xfce. Maybe we should consider having a look at xfce-look.org or something like that and select a beautiful theme, and then just change a bit to integrate ubuntu studio artwork | 14:51 |
| ailo | If someone finds a nice theme, then I suppose the best thing would be to contact the person who made it. Also, many themes are derived already from something else | 14:52 |
| scott-work | we can certainly look into creating (or finding) a lighter, bluer, clearer theme that would appeal to new users | 14:53 |
| ttoine | scott-work, I don't think that blue should be the main color | 14:56 |
| ttoine | there should be some bit of blue, on a well done friendly theme, with great look and feel | 14:58 |
| ttoine | having the blue logo is, or the blue wallpaper may be enough | 14:58 |
| scott-work | we could also look at an installation question with images that prompts the user to choose a theme | 15:04 |
| ttoine | scott-work, yes, that is a very good idea. but it may be a lot of work to de that prompt | 15:06 |
| ttoine | ailo, the pulseaudio-module-jack is definitively not friendly with low latency... is this really a bug ?? | 15:07 |
| scott-work | ttoine: that is entirely possible, we really did not accomplish much testing of the pulse-jack bridging due to the late entry of the lowlatency kernel into the repo | 15:10 |
| ttoine | scott-work, I think that the problem is more about unity | 15:21 |
| ttoine | I will investigate | 15:21 |
| scott-work | thank you, ttoine | 15:28 |
| ttoine | scott-work, at the moment, the user has to be in audio group, or real-time group to use realtime ? | 15:32 |
| ttoine | just to check ? | 15:32 |
| ailo | ttoine: audio group | 15:43 |
| scott-work | user in audio group | 15:43 |
| scott-work | ailo, beat me :P | 15:43 |
| scott-work | i checked that last night from yesterday's image and i found the user in the audio group | 15:43 |
| ailo | ttoine: The file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf is what decides that | 15:43 |
| scott-work | likewise i found that the etc/security/limits/.... | 15:43 |
| scott-work | lol, again, ailo beat me | 15:43 |
| ttoine | ailo, I know... | 15:43 |
| scott-work | ttoine: we had trouble with jack being configured for a while, it was leaving the file as etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf.disabled | 15:44 |
| ttoine | but what is strange in unity, as soon as any audio app is connected to jack, I have x-runs... | 15:44 |
| ailo | This might change in the future though, cause audio group is used for something else too | 15:44 |
| ttoine | ailo, scott-work, yes, it should be realtime users | 15:45 |
| ttoine | group | 15:45 |
| ailo | ttoine: Debian will probably change that | 15:46 |
| ailo | ttoine: Using -lowlatency, you get xruns? At which setting? | 15:47 |
| ttoine | 5.3ms | 15:48 |
| ttoine | very strange. | 15:48 |
| ailo | ttoine: Oh, and I haven't investigated the PA-jack bridge yet, so try disabling that | 15:48 |
| ailo | ttoine: Yes, but which setting for period/buffer and so on? | 15:49 |
| ttoine | currently, no x-run at all if only jack is launched in unity. even if the cpu il very loaded | 15:49 |
| ttoine | as soon as I start ardour, a lot of x-run appear, even if I don't do anything | 15:49 |
| ailo | ttoine: From loading the app, or running it? | 15:50 |
| ailo | ttoine: And do you get the same thing using XFCE? | 15:50 |
| ailo | I'm using Gnome3 with no problems. I could try Unity too, but I suspect there will be no difference. Also, XFCE uses the same Gnome3 stuff for the apps | 15:51 |
| ttoine | from loading, AND using it (or not using it but let them open) | 15:53 |
| ailo | ttoine: So, which period/buffer are you using? | 15:55 |
| ailo | ttoine: I have no problem with Unity. Same performance on all WM's for me | 15:56 |
| ailo | ttoine: Also, you are sure you have realtime privilege? | 15:56 |
| ttoine | ailo, I am in the audio group, I use 64 and 3 | 15:58 |
| ailo | ttoine: Did you install PA-jack bridge separately, or as a part of a Ubuntustudio package? | 15:59 |
| ailo | As I understand, you are like me, running an Ubuntu install, not an Ubuntustudio one | 16:00 |
| ailo | I started getting xruns because pulseaudio now | 16:03 |
| ailo | Hadn't investigated using the same device for both PA and jack | 16:04 |
| ailo | That's when I start getting problems | 16:04 |
| ttoine | ailo, I uninstalled it, and deleted the hided file my home, to reset the prefereces of any apps | 16:05 |
| ttoine | ailo, yes it seems to create problem when using the pa plugin | 16:07 |
| ailo | I really have no idea about how the pa-jack bridge works on US, but removing pulseaudio-module-jack made my xruns disappear | 16:07 |
| ailo | This should be thouroughly tested on Ubuntustudio | 16:08 |
| ailo | Better to remove pa-jack bridge if it's not working well | 16:08 |
| ttoine | yes | 16:12 |
| ttoine | it is far better now, without the pa bridge | 16:12 |
| ttoine | I think that using a usb sound card is not the best too | 16:13 |
| ailo | ttoine: Did you have the bridge working at any time? I know it works somewhat on Ubuntustudio, but as I said, I don't know how it works | 16:13 |
| ailo | ttoine: So, you're happy with the performance now? | 16:16 |
| ttoine | the bridge worked well | 16:19 |
| ttoine | no, I can see what is the problem, currently... | 16:19 |
| ttoine | I am still having a lot of x-runs, even if I do nothing with the apps | 16:20 |
| ttoine | uname -r | 16:20 |
| ailo | 3.2.0-20-lowlatency? | 16:20 |
| ttoine | yes | 16:21 |
| ailo | And you restarted jack? | 16:21 |
| ttoine | ailo, do you have any restricted video driver on your pc ? | 16:21 |
| ailo | ttoine: Yes. nvidia | 16:22 |
| ttoine | same... | 16:23 |
| ailo | ttoine: btw, are you using jackdmp? | 16:26 |
| ttoine | I think | 16:27 |
| ailo | ttoine: If you're using qjackctl, just disable the D-bus interface from qjackctl/Setup/Misc | 16:27 |
| ailo | jackdmp doesn't work well at all for me | 16:27 |
| ailo | It would be best to not have that enabled by default | 16:28 |
| micahg | ScottL: astraljava: 2 things ahead of you in my queue ATM, so, we need uploads of default-settings, -look, and -lightdm-theme + the -meta? | 16:28 |
| ttoine | ailo, I can only use jackd, other options don't work | 16:34 |
| ttoine | it not different without dvus | 16:34 |
| ttoine | dbus | 16:34 |
| ailo | ttoine: If you have jackd2 installed, and have the dbus option toggled on, you should be running jackdmp, not jackd | 16:35 |
| ttoine | jackd2 is installed, dbus option is not activated and I run the default jackd option | 16:35 |
| ttoine | if I try jackdmp, jack don't start | 16:37 |
| ttoine | jackdmp | 16:37 |
| ailo | ttoine: I noticed one has to restart qjackctl in order for that to take effect | 16:37 |
| ttoine | sorry, wrong keyboard | 16:37 |
| ttoine | ailo, ok. I do that now, so | 16:37 |
| ailo | To check which one is running, i do this: ps -e | grep jack | 16:38 |
| falktx | jackdmp never existed in debian | 16:38 |
| ttoine | falktx, jackd2 is jackdmp in debian, no ? | 16:38 |
| falktx | no | 16:39 |
| falktx | it's all jackd | 16:39 |
| ailo | Have to go for a while. Downloading lates US, so I will test it later | 16:40 |
| ttoine | ok | 16:41 |
| ttoine | ailo, ok | 16:41 |
| ttoine | I think it is the usb sound card | 16:41 |
| ttoine | I will try with more latency | 16:41 |
| ailo | ttoine: Please compare with -realtime if you can. I'd like to hear about your results | 16:42 |
| ailo | I still need to test on another machine as well | 16:43 |
| ttoine | ailo, it ok at near 8ms latency | 16:43 |
| ttoine | no more problem | 16:43 |
| ttoine | falktx, what are the differences between jackd1 and jackd2 in debian/ubuntu ? | 16:44 |
| falktx | afaik, they are: | 16:45 |
| falktx | - dbus mode only for jack2 | 16:45 |
| falktx | (it could be done for jack1, but needs a patch) | 16:45 |
| falktx | when a jack app starts and jack is stopped, jack will: | 16:46 |
| falktx | - jack1 -> start jackd | 16:46 |
| falktx | - jack2 -> start jackd and ignore jackdbus settings completely | 16:46 |
| falktx | ^that is a terrbile thing | 16:46 |
| falktx | also apps are usually compiled on jack1, so some have small issues when jack2 is used | 16:47 |
| ttoine | falktx, what is the interest of dbus ? | 16:47 |
| falktx | ttoine: IPC mostly. we can ask for jack stuff, configure it, manage it completely without ever touching jackd | 16:48 |
| falktx | it's a bit technical | 16:48 |
| falktx | but the main reason is to get rid of jackd, and manage jack "internally" | 16:48 |
| ttoine | not only a bit. what do you mean by IPC ? | 16:48 |
| falktx | ttoine: being able to communicate between apps | 16:48 |
| falktx | jackdbus makes an a jack possible, when it doesn't even use the jack library | 16:49 |
| ttoine | falktx, so if jackd2 is installed, and I use qjackctl, should I disable dbus ? or let it enabled ? | 16:49 |
| falktx | very useful for patchbays | 16:49 |
| falktx | ttoine: I prefer to have dbus enabled. but qjackctl's dbus support is not very good | 16:49 |
| ttoine | falktx, at the moment, I can record 26 tracks at a time at nearly 8ms of latency, on a usb sound card | 16:51 |
| ttoine | seems to be quite good | 16:51 |
| falktx | not related to the conversation, but yes, that is very good | 16:51 |
| falktx | oh | 16:51 |
| ttoine | if i try lower latency, even if i do nothing, i have xruns... strange, no ? | 16:52 |
| falktx | ttoine: possibly jackdbus also allows jack+pulseaudio to live more friendly, but I never tried it | 16:52 |
| ttoine | falktx, I think I will try again the pa-jack bridge with more latency | 16:52 |
| falktx | I always force-bridge PA when needed | 16:53 |
| falktx | I mostly use snd-aloop + alsa_in/out now though | 16:54 |
| ttoine | the matter is for people having only a firewire sound card, the only way to have system sound is by the pa-jack bridge. although, this is not a common case | 16:56 |
| ttoine | too bad that the realtime kernel doesn't support restricted drivers... I can't compare the two kernel on may workstation... | 16:58 |
| falktx | ttoine: snd-aloop works for firewire as well | 16:59 |
| falktx | it outputs all alsa sound apps to jack | 16:59 |
| ttoine | yes, you need jack and ffado, so | 17:00 |
| falktx | later | 17:08 |
| ttoine | scott-work, after several trials, it seems that with my soundcard, I can work at a minimum latency of 5ms | 17:16 |
| ttoine | If I try less, I can start jack but I will have a lot of x-runs | 17:17 |
| ttoine | the pa-jack bridge works if d-bus is activated, thanks to falktx for the trick | 17:17 |
| ttoine | so it is a very good kernel hacking !!! | 17:18 |
| * ttoine will be back | 17:18 | |
| astraljava | micahg: Yeah, I think that's about right. The new one is -live-settings. | 17:23 |
| micahg | astraljava: that's part of -default-settings though | 17:24 |
| micahg | astraljava: that's only needed in the live env though, right? | 17:24 |
| astraljava | micahg: Oh, yeah. | 17:24 |
| ailo | ttoine: You could uninstall the graphic drivers and then compare -realtime with -lowlatency | 17:53 |
| ttoine | ailo, yes, I think I will do that | 17:53 |
| ailo | Also make sure there's no xorg.conf after you reboot | 17:53 |
| ttoine | ailo, currently, 5,2ms is quite good for 26 tracks recorded at a time ;-) | 17:54 |
| ttoine | with pa-jack bridge activated | 17:54 |
| ailo | I don't like to use ms as a way to measure because it's not sure it's the actual produced latency | 17:54 |
| ailo | When I talk with people about what frames/period they like to use many say they need 32, but for me, 64 is enough | 17:55 |
| ttoine | I hope I can try with pci sound card like rme... | 17:55 |
| ttoine | my sound card will not start at 32 | 17:56 |
| ailo | ttoine: How do you enable the pa-jack bridge? | 17:56 |
| ttoine | just by installing the pulseausio-module-jack package. falktx suggest that d-bus has to be enabled if you do so | 17:57 |
| ailo | Using dbus with pulseaudio-modules-jack is fine now, but no bridge. | 17:57 |
| ttoine | and it works very well | 17:57 |
| ailo | A funny thing happened to me also. I started Totem, and suddenly PA was outputting to another sound device which was not chosen by either jack or PA | 17:57 |
| ttoine | ailo, once jack is started, check with patchage that pulseaudio is visible | 17:57 |
| ttoine | then, in audio preferences of ubuntu, change the defaut sound card to jack-sink | 17:58 |
| ailo | I don't use patchage. Only qjackctl. | 17:58 |
| ttoine | and you will have the system sound on jack | 17:58 |
| ttoine | qjackctl patchbay is an alternative to patchage ;-) | 17:58 |
| ttoine | but if the module is installed, you should see pulseaudio in the patchbay | 17:59 |
| scott-work | i had successfully used dbus enabled jack to output to two different soundcards simultaneous; one from ardour via jack, the other youtube via pulse | 17:59 |
| ailo | scott-work: That's not dbus. That's just regular jack + PA at the same time | 17:59 |
| scott-work | ailo: no, i couldn't do that before because qjackctl would suspend pa | 17:59 |
| scott-work | i realize that is a wrapper script | 17:59 |
| ailo | scott-work: Yes, but it's still not connected to dbus | 18:00 |
| scott-work | i thought it was, i thought qjackctl was setup to use jackdbus | 18:00 |
| ailo | I've been doing that for many years. So, when qjacktl had that wrapper script, I just disabled it | 18:01 |
| ailo | scott-work: Doesn't matter whether it is jackdbus or jackd. As long as PA and jack have different devices chosen, they can operate at the same time | 18:01 |
| ttoine | ailo, scott-work, yes, you need dbus to be activated to have to separated cards working one with pulse audio, one with jackd, I confirm | 18:02 |
| ailo | ttoine: That is not true | 18:02 |
| ailo | You can do this with jackdbus, jackd1, jackd2 | 18:02 |
| ttoine | ok, will check that | 18:03 |
| ailo | Has nothing to do with jackdbus. It's just two different programs running simultaniously. Both using alsa drivers | 18:03 |
| ttoine | ailo, do you see the pulseaudio i/o in the jack patchbay ?? | 18:03 |
| ailo | ttoine: Nope | 18:03 |
| ailo | I'm going to test Ubuntustudio now | 18:04 |
| ailo | bb | 18:04 |
| ttoine | did you restart ? | 18:04 |
| scott-work | ailo: what is the difference between "bridging" and using dbus then? | 18:07 |
| scott-work | i thought i understood this, but obviously i do not | 18:07 |
| ailo | scott-work: Bridgin means pulseaudio is using jack as it's output, instead of an actual audio device | 18:07 |
| ailo | When you have pa outputting it's audio to jack, only one audio card is in use, and that card is controlled by jack alone | 18:08 |
| ailo | ttoine: No, I didn't restart, and that was clearly the problem. (logging in/out would have been enough) | 18:09 |
| ailo | (or to restart pulseaudio?) | 18:09 |
| scott-work | what does the pulseaudio-jack-module do then? | 18:10 |
| scott-work | is that bridging? or using d-bus | 18:10 |
| ttoine | yes, just the session is enough | 18:10 |
| scott-work | ? | 18:10 |
| ailo | scott-work: As it seems, pulseaudio-module-jack is making it possible for pulseaudio to use jack as it's output, instead of an audio device | 18:10 |
| ttoine | the module creates first of all a virtual sound card for pulse audio, the jack-sink | 18:11 |
| scott-work | so that would be "bridging", no? | 18:11 |
| ttoine | then, in jack, it creates pulseaudio i/o and connect it per default to the first i/o of jack | 18:11 |
| ailo | It would be nice if PA auto selected jack as it's output. Maybe that's the reason it didn't work in Ubuntustudio? | 18:12 |
| ttoine | but if you forget to tell pulse audio to use the jack-sink, it will not do it, so you still need to go to the sound preferences of the system and do it | 18:12 |
| scott-work | how did you enable dbus for this to work? | 18:12 |
| ailo | scott-work: dbus is enable by default in qjackctl settings | 18:13 |
| ailo | Added recently as an option | 18:13 |
| ailo | Didn't exist before | 18:13 |
| ttoine | you don't do anything. in the qjackctl, just check that the d-bus option in enabled | 18:13 |
| scott-work | ailo: okay, david h. had mentioned this but given some previous conversation in this channel today i was beginning to question this and my experience :P | 18:14 |
| * ttoine need to restart | 18:14 | |
| ailo | scott-work: The only problem I see with this is that, at least for me, qjackctl is not good at stopping jackdmp. It fails to stop it, and then I need to kill the process manually | 18:15 |
| ailo | I already filed a bug about it some time ago | 18:15 |
| ailo | Also, the way pulseaudio interacts with jack is great, but still a little too manual. | 18:16 |
| ailo | But, that one can live with :) | 18:16 |
| scott-work | ailo: i saw the bug | 18:16 |
| scott-work | i have had the same experience, but i figured it was my ignorance about jack and dbus and i needed to do somethign else to fix it | 18:17 |
| scott-work | i've been focused on other things (obviously) | 18:17 |
| scott-work | ailo: but it doesn't always happen for me | 18:17 |
| ailo | scott-work: Same here. It happens every other time, or so | 18:17 |
| scott-work | i seem to recall that it happened more frequently after i started and stopped jack severl times | 18:17 |
| ailo | Would be good to get rid of the warning message that qjackctl gives when stopping jack, when the only thing running is pulseaudio | 18:20 |
| ailo | Well, that's a qjackctl problem anyway | 18:21 |
| ailo | I really don't like that qjackctl doesn't stop jackdmp well. This will make the LTS not feel like an LTS. | 18:24 |
| ailo | More like work in progress | 18:25 |
| scott-work | yeah :/ | 18:25 |
| ailo | Personally, I'd use jackd as default, and give docs on how to enable jackdbus | 18:25 |
| scott-work | we hit some incredibly major milestones, but 12.04 isn't the penultimate release that i had hoped for | 18:25 |
| ailo | -lowlatency is a great addition. Also, the XFCE transition is a major change | 18:26 |
| scott-work | ailo: i had hoped to spend time testing the bridging or dbus integration (or whatever) with david h. this cycle, but i was delayed working on other stuff and so was the lowlatency kernel | 18:26 |
| scott-work | but this would be a very good item for next cycle and document it as well | 18:26 |
| ailo | With a little luck, any problems related to jackdmp will vanish by the time for next release | 18:27 |
| ailo | I'm really the guy who should be working on those items. Did not have the time or opportunity to really get involved until recently. | 18:28 |
| ailo | I mean, since everyone else is fairly occupied with all sorts of other things | 18:28 |
| ailo | My new usb stick was not bootable :/. Back to my old one | 18:30 |
| scott-work | ailo: what other things would you like to see done in the next cycle or what else would you suggest we look into? | 18:38 |
| knome | add a mouse in the wallpaper! | 18:42 |
| * knome hides | 18:42 | |
| scott-work | actually i have it in my notes to remove the mouse from the installation partition image :P | 18:50 |
| knome | bleh | 18:50 |
| * knome will set some mouse-bombs for scott in Q | 18:50 | |
| knome | ;) | 18:50 |
| scott-work | lols | 18:52 |
| ailo | scott-work: I would need to think about that. About the audio plumbing, I think it's better to talk to people in this order: coders, Debian packagers, Ubuntu packagers, and lastly, make Ubuntustudio specific changes if nothing else works | 19:16 |
| knome | ailo, i'd say that's the right order in anything | 19:17 |
| knome | as long as you remember to offer contributing to upstream on every step | 19:17 |
| knome | then it makes the most sense for everybody | 19:18 |
| ailo | Until now, there hasn't really been any activity on the audio plumbing side, apart from adding -lowlatency and discussing new default jack settings. There's the seeds of course. | 19:20 |
| ailo | Each release, there are usually some sort of problems, so it would probably be good if someone on this team would become more active in this area | 19:21 |
| ailo | I wouldn't mind being that person | 19:21 |
| ailo | Ok, time to test the iso finally. bbl | 19:24 |
| ailo-live | One thing that we really need in my opinion is a pulseaudio volumecontrol | 19:34 |
| knome | ailo, xubuntu is switching to pavucontrol this release | 19:35 |
| ailo-live | knome, Too late to add it to Ubuntustudio_ | 19:37 |
| knome | ailo-live, it's 1,5h until the beta2 freeze | 19:37 |
| ailo-live | bah, English keyboard layout | 19:37 |
| knome | ailo-live, our change isn't uploaded either | 19:37 |
| * knome hides | 19:37 | |
| ailo-live | knome, I mean to add a question mark after ubuntustudio, but I cant find the key >P | 19:38 |
| knome | right | 19:38 |
| ailo-live | Thats one thing that live iso should have during boot. First, choose keyboard layout | 19:39 |
| knome | well, it's quite late | 19:39 |
| knome | but, you could do that | 19:39 |
| knome | i'm too busy to file the Fe though | 19:39 |
| ailo-live | scott-work, What do you think (questionmark) | 19:39 |
| len_ | ailo-live, there should be a PA volume control both in multimedia and (if the new menu stuff is there) in the mixer section. | 19:45 |
| len_ | If not it was taken out since yesterday. | 19:45 |
| ailo-live | len_, At the volume control, opening "Sound Settings" opens up alsa mixer | 19:46 |
| len_ | there is a second one below that | 19:46 |
| len_ | In mutlimedia there were two volume controls apps trhe bottom one is PA | 19:47 |
| ailo-live | Yes, but the actual volume control that you see in the indicator part | 19:48 |
| ailo-live | Also, I'm yet to figure out how I can change PA output | 19:48 |
| len_ | I was able to yesterday. Are the new menus in today? | 19:49 |
| ailo-live | len_, How do you change pulseaudio output (questionmark) | 19:49 |
| len_ | ailo-live pavucontrol should still be there... run it from an xterm if the menu item is gone. The last tab should have i/o card choice | 19:50 |
| ailo-live | len_, I'm using it currently. But there's nothing I can see that let's me change audio device | 19:51 |
| len_ | I found with jack bridging I just had to turn off the sound card and what would be left was jack sink. | 19:52 |
| len_ | look at the output devices tab, if jack is running there should be a jack part there | 19:52 |
| ailo-live | len_, I'm only concerned with how I can change audio device for pulseaudio at the moment | 19:53 |
| len_ | I'm going to have to DL todays ISO so I can see what is there, Yesterday I couldn't even start jackd with qjackctl. | 19:55 |
| ailo-live | It's working, but there's nothing that let's you see that you've changed the device | 19:59 |
| len_ | It should be on the last tab configuration... but I am noticing mine (in 11.04) is showing "No cards available" even though I have two. The output Devices shows my default card. | 19:59 |
| len_ | I think I had to manually configure things to get PA to work back then. | 20:00 |
| len_ | I'm DL the ISO to take a look. | 20:00 |
| ailo-live | I see. Its the control named "Set as fallback" | 20:00 |
| ailo-live | len_, PA has been poor at supporting multichannel cards, like m-audio in the past. Don't know when it changed, Perhaps this release | 20:01 |
| len_ | It was much better even 11.10 | 20:02 |
| ailo-live | Had to do with PA expecting a certain interface from alsa. Don't know if they fixed it at the alsa end, or the PA end | 20:02 |
| len_ | ailo-live at the PA end. | 20:02 |
| ailo-live | len_, How do you know | 20:03 |
| len_ | I was talking with the right person... | 20:03 |
| len_ | Can't remember who.. | 20:03 |
| len_ | It has to do with channel mapping. | 20:04 |
| ailo-live | Yeah | 20:04 |
| len_ | alsa still says tracks 1-10. | 20:05 |
| ailo-live | And that has to do with the chip being the way it is | 20:05 |
| ailo-live | The delta series all had the same chip | 20:06 |
| ailo-live | Other cards too. Like a Terratec 8ch card | 20:06 |
| ailo-live | ice1712 | 20:06 |
| len_ | I am pretty sure, I used to have to change the alsa config to get it to load in the right order and the PA config to get a right and a left. | 20:06 |
| len_ | Mine is a D66 | 20:07 |
| ailo-live | I have a D66 as well as a LT1010 | 20:07 |
| ailo-live | At one point you were able to fix it by adding a couple of lines to the ice1712 file | 20:07 |
| ailo-live | I never bothered with this, cause I've always been running two devices paralell. | 20:08 |
| ailo-live | One for jack, one for PA | 20:08 |
| ailo-live | Using a hardware mixer to route the channels to my monitors | 20:08 |
| ailo-live | Anyway, the volume control should be pulseaudio only | 20:09 |
| ailo-live | That's a major confusion right now | 20:09 |
| len_ | ailo-live, not so sure about that. there are some things that need the alsa based mixer. | 20:10 |
| len_ | Like my laptop internal mic. | 20:10 |
| ailo-live | len_, Are you saying we should have an alsa mixer by default | 20:11 |
| len_ | PA controls it by using both channels, but for some reason mine needs the right side to be mute. | 20:11 |
| len_ | the two sides are inverted from each other. | 20:12 |
| len_ | The PA mixer works for most people most of the time. | 20:12 |
| len_ | It is much easier to use. | 20:12 |
| len_ | The alsa mix needs to be there for the odd (bad) hardware | 20:13 |
| ailo-live | I really don't understand your argument. Because you need alsa mixer to get your mic working, it should be the default mixer | 20:13 |
| scott-work | this is a good example of why we probably need to more clearly define who we are supporting and what we expect their hardware to be | 20:13 |
| ailo-live | If the default sound server is pulseaudio, isn't it logical to have the pulseaudio mixer as default as well | 20:13 |
| len_ | yes PA should be default. | 20:14 |
| ailo-live | If PA is not able to control your audio device, then its a bug | 20:14 |
| len_ | Some of the RME cards require the alsa mixer to configure them (I'm told) | 20:14 |
| len_ | PA controls everything but the internal mic correctly. | 20:15 |
| len_ | There has been a bug report in before I found the problem. | 20:15 |
| scott-work | and we can keep putting pressure on people to fix these bugs | 20:16 |
| len_ | The internal mic also has a fixed bitrate of 48k... | 20:16 |
| ailo-live | alsamixer can be used to control the audio card directly, like the delta-66, The volumes are at 0 by default, so they need to be raised. This can either be done using the envy24 control, or using alsamixer. | 20:16 |
| ailo-live | Having the alsa mixer available is probably a good idea, but the volume contron in the top bar should be pulseaudio only | 20:17 |
| ailo-live | That's all I'm saying | 20:17 |
| micahg | scott-work: it's not clear about the new wallpaper which license it's under | 20:17 |
| len_ | mudita24 works for me. but when using gstreamer to PA, the PA controls are helpful. | 20:17 |
| scott-work | micahg: i have an email from dick that it is the same creative commons license as the others | 20:17 |
| scott-work | going into a meeting, be back in thirty to an hour | 20:17 |
| ailo-live | len_, They control different things. mudita24 (envy24) controls the card, while pulsaudio just controls the volume that is sent to it | 20:18 |
| scott-work | oh, and thank you micahg for working on these to get them into :) | 20:18 |
| len_ | Yup, both are useful for some things. I wouldn't think that mudit24 should be in the panel or the multimedia menu though. | 20:20 |
| ailo-live | Interesting to see tomorrows image, when it should contain the new -lowlatency | 20:21 |
| ailo-live | bb | 20:21 |
| micahg | scott-work: maybe that should be included like the other e-mail in the file? not exactly sure on this point of order | 20:27 |
| micahg | scott-work: checking on that copyright file, also I'll need to bump the dependent version of ubuntustudio-look for -default-settings since you're using the new wallpaper | 20:38 |
| scott-work | micahg: would be satisfactory to add a task to my list to add the email at a later date? i absolutely promise i will do this | 20:40 |
| micahg | scott-work: I'm finding out if it's necessary at all | 20:40 |
| scott-work | micahg: ack | 20:40 |
| micahg | scott-work: otherwise, I'll back out the wallpaper change for -default-settings and upload | 20:41 |
| scott-work | micahg: can i send you the email to include? | 20:41 |
| micahg | scott-work: sure | 20:41 |
| scott-work | micahg: sent to your canonical address | 20:44 |
| micahg | thanks | 20:44 |
| scott-work | thank you :) | 20:44 |
| micahg | astraljava: I'm thinking to just drop that section of the preinst that has no useful info | 20:46 |
| micahg | astraljava: I'll leave your name in the changelog for it :0 | 20:47 |
| micahg | :) | 20:47 |
| scott-work | LOL | 20:47 |
| micahg | scott-work: not needed, uploading | 20:54 |
| astraljava | micahg: Yeah, I was on the verge of ridding it too, but then decided to leave it for debugging, after all, not many actually look into the outputs. :) | 20:56 |
| micahg | yeah, but it'll always show that :) | 20:56 |
| ttoine | len_, rme sound cards need the hdspmixer apps. other wise you get no sound | 20:57 |
| astraljava | micahg: Show what? Are you not talking about the "preinst called with unknown argument $arg"? | 20:58 |
| micahg | yes | 20:59 |
| astraljava | micahg: So, if there's no printing of that in the default case, what will it show, then? | 20:59 |
| micahg | astraljava: are you against removing it? | 20:59 |
| astraljava | micahg: No, but am puzzled with the comment "..but it'll always show that". | 21:00 |
| micahg | there's nothing useful being done there | 21:00 |
| micahg | oh, it should show that on any configure/abort-upgrade | 21:00 |
| micahg | does it not? | 21:00 |
| astraljava | micahg: There's no functionality, but it would have been there just for informational purposes, ie. finding out if it was called with some other arg. But I agree it's not really important, and probably not very likely anyway. | 21:01 |
| micahg | ok, removed, uploading meta | 21:02 |
| astraljava | Thanks! | 21:02 |
| micahg | astraljava: you want credit in the changelog or no? | 21:04 |
| scott-work | astraljava: say yes, you'll be famous | 21:05 |
| len-live | Wow! that was about the most seamless use of PA-jack bridging I have ever done. | 21:06 |
| scott-work | len-live: did you have to do something special? anything at all? | 21:06 |
| * scott-work is presuming len wasn't including sarcasm tags | 21:07 | |
| len-live | Once jack was running I had to tell PA to use jacksink as the "fallback" default. | 21:07 |
| len-live | I'll have to try it on the netbook as I had problems there last night. | 21:08 |
| len-live | I am not sure I want to try it with my ensoniq... | 21:09 |
| len-live | I think if I stop jack that will go away, so if I restart jack I would have to set PA again. | 21:11 |
| scott-work | len-live: do you have any music on the interwebs for people to listen to? | 21:11 |
| TheMuso | So... Can someone plesae check that the lowlatency kernel configs are as they should be? I am pretty sure I fixed it up, but need someone to confirm. | 21:11 |
| ailo | TheMuso: i386 is as it should be | 21:12 |
| astraljava | micahg: Let's go by the book, you made the last change, you should be credited. | 21:12 |
| TheMuso | ailo: Which one? -pae, or non-pae? | 21:12 |
| ailo | TheMuso: non-pae | 21:13 |
| ailo | Forgot about pae | 21:13 |
| TheMuso | Ok. | 21:13 |
| len-live | I am not sure I understand... There is not recording I have done... The one page I had up where I did something for a friend got lost in an upgrade... | 21:14 |
| len-live | The ensoniq worked fine too. Last time I got tones of xruns when I tried it with PA-jack bridge. | 21:24 |
| len-live | Gotta get kids bye for now. | 21:25 |
| ailo | I'm going to test the bridge for a while. Seems to work well using -p 64 | 21:27 |
| len-live | Tried to install todays ISO... no go. Mar 22 21:49:34 ubuntu-studio ubiquity[3299]: GError: Failed to execute child process "/bin/busybox" (No such file or directory) | 21:57 |
| len-live | Did we forget to put that in? or is that a basepackage problem? | 21:57 |
| len-live | I know lots of people are trying to shrink the ISO size, I noticed there are still some CD ISOs that are over size when I DL the ubuntudesktop version yesterday. | 21:59 |
| len-live | For completeness I will try on the netbook as well (which did work yesterday) | 22:00 |
| * knome is slightly burnt out :) | 22:01 | |
| * knome will recover by tomorrow, though | 22:01 | |
| len-live | Oh yes and firefox just crashed... I was going to paste the bug number in... | 22:02 |
| * knome is off, laters | 22:05 | |
| ailo | knome: Have some ice tea too cool down | 22:06 |
| ailo | Lemon ice tea, :P | 22:06 |
| len-live | The bug report is Bug #962585 | 22:32 |
| ubottu | Error: Launchpad bug 962585 could not be found | 22:32 |
| len-live | Launch pad is having timeout errors right now too. | 22:33 |
| len-live | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/962585 | 22:33 |
| ubottu | Error: launchpad bug 962585 not found | 22:33 |
| len-live | for more info. | 22:34 |
| len-live | Anyway, no installs today. | 22:41 |
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