/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/23/#kubuntu-devel.txt

JontheEchidnaapol_: http://i.imgur.com/2Mz5K.png00:24
JontheEchidnait just needed this: http://commits.kde.org/muon/f8353c57b1a09da0ecf04e8cf6f7def7581310ec00:25
JontheEchidnabut afaict, phonon and muon are the only things in the kde source tree using QZeitgeist00:25
JontheEchidnawell, and that kate plugin00:26
JontheEchidnabut I don't think lxr indexes scratch repos00:26
Darkwingapachelogger: yes, but after the 12.04LTS01:15
JontheEchidnawhat's up w/ that?01:19
DarkwingUp with?01:34
JontheEchidnano kubuntu-docs after 12.04?01:38
jjessewhy?01:38
DarkwingIt was discussed at the last UDS but, having a welcome center written with links to KDE, Ubuntu, LibreOffice and other stuff we currently re-write was something that seemed to spark a lot of intrest.01:52
DarkwingI'm going to be bringing it up at UDS-Q again.01:52
jjesseno offense on an idea of a re-write but no one is really updating the docs for 12.04 in the first place so whose going to do a rewrite01:53
jjessealso i like the help file but that's just me01:53
DarkwingNot a re-write.01:55
DarkwingIt will be in the form on a widget with HTML501:56
DarkwingIE eliminate the kubuntu-docs package.01:56
jjesseso a break away from kde-docs?01:56
DarkwingYes. KDE docs will still be shipped.01:56
jjessecause we've always tried to stay as close to kde-docs as possible01:56
jjessejust like we try to stay as close to kde as possilbe01:57
DarkwingKDE Docs are shipped anyway. The idea is to take any efforts into system doc writing go to KDE Docs.01:57
DarkwingHaving an HTML5 slideshow welcome center would help point people how to use and where to go for more help / info.01:57
jjessesorry disagree competly01:58
jjessesystem help still needs to be local01:58
jjesseand there needs to be a local kubuntu help for anything we change01:58
DarkwingBut, there is nothing unique that isn't on KDE, help.ubuntu.com already.01:58
jjessethere needs to be a local help file01:59
jjessethat you can access w/o internet acces01:59
Darkwingand the 1 or 2 things that are, can be covered in the welcome center.01:59
Darkwingand those HTML5 files will be local.01:59
jjessesorry i still disagree 01:59
jjessekubuntu help should cover specific to kubuntu and there are plenty of things we don't leverage from kde-docs in my view02:00
DarkwingBut, what is Kubuntu specific that KDE doesn't supply?02:00
jjessei think there is a lot02:02
jjessei think moving to a slideshow simplifies too much02:02
jjessea lot of stuff about navigation, how to get help, ho to contribute, etc02:02
DarkwingThis is why I had a full session at UDS-P And am planning on holding a full session at UDS-Q02:04
jjesseso i understand desire for sessions, etc but lets back up and actually get stuff done before we try to re-write something that won't get done02:04
* jalcine listens.02:05
DarkwingWhile I see what you are saying, I'm watching us duplicate efforts that are already in place.02:05
jjessesorry i still disagree that duplicate efforts are made02:05
jjesse1st hardly any effort is being made02:05
jjesse2nd there still needs to be a specific kubuntu help file that is stored local that covers ubuntu02:06
jjessenot kde and not ubuntu02:06
jalcineLike Ubuntu in detail?02:08
jalcineor Kubuntu?02:08
jjessekubuntu02:08
DarkwingBut that is what I am saying... Kubuntu in detail is KDE.02:08
jalcineHm, why not copy the userbase's information into Docbook?02:08
Darkwingwith very very minor changes.02:08
jalcineDarkwing has a point there.02:08
jalcineLike package managemen.02:09
jjesselook we've talked this through every release cycle about what we want to change w/ kubuntu-docs or ubuntu-docs and how we want to strip as much help from the system as possible and i competly believe it is wrong02:09
jjessei believe there are items that are still specific to kubuntu that need to be used and link to the different guides like we attempt to do right now02:10
jjesseubuntu-docs does a great job w/ this and mallard02:10
DarkwingLike what though? LibreOffice?02:10
jjessei think basic navigation, stuff about kubuntu specific etc should be held localy02:10
DarkwingThat is what the welcome center would cover.02:11
jalcineI think I've used local help on Ubuntu more in KDE than in GNOME.02:11
DarkwingIt would be in a more... friendly location, easier to find and use02:11
jjessei would argue if i handed someone kde-docs help and told them to figure things out they would immediately start searching the web02:11
jalcineIt was more readily available and a bit more intuitive, imho. 02:11
Darkwingjjesse: That is my point. Kubuntu docs are just as bad.02:11
Darkwingso is KHelpCenter IMO.02:11
jjessei think the problem is docbook 02:12
jalcineThat's nature.02:13
DarkwingI would agree but, other then HTML what can we support?02:13
DarkwingKHelpCenter doesn't support Mallard.02:13
Darkwingand KDE Ships docbook.02:13
Darkwing*KDE Docs02:13
jalcineo.O02:14
DarkwingSo, there isn't a push to move KHelpCenter to include anything else... and I believe it's an orphened program anyway.02:14
jalcineCan't KHelpCenter uses KIO to render man pages?02:15
jalcineHmm, that would have been a decent GSoC task.02:15
DarkwingIt's a poorly writen program that no one is developing on.02:15
DarkwingThat is why we stuck with docbook.02:15
jalcineHmm.02:15
jalcineWell, I had a question.02:16
jalcineRegarding documentation as a whole.02:16
jjesseshoot ask away02:16
jalcineIs there a Freedesktop standard for it?02:16
jjesseno idea02:16
jjessebut gnome uses mallard for docs and kde uses docbook02:16
jalcineIf it were unified, it'd make things easier.02:17
DarkwingUntil we including mallard into KHelpCenter we can't.02:17
jalcineThis makes me want to apt-get source it and hack it.02:17
Darkwingand until we get a devel to work on KHelpCenter we can't.02:17
DarkwingThis is why I'm trying to fix the issue by approaching it from a different angle02:18
* jalcine didn't catch the angle.02:19
jalcinesince I came in so late into the convo.02:20
DarkwingKubuntu Welcome Center instead of Kubuntu system docs02:24
jalcineHmm.02:26
jalcineA replacement for KHelpCenter or rather an addition/revamping of KHelpCenter?02:27
jalcineA replacement for KHelpCenter or rather an addition/revamping of KHelpCenter? 02:32
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Riddellrelease team meeting today, what shall I report we have done this week?08:53
RiddellDarkwing: get anywhere with docs package?08:53
Riddellfregl: how is qt 4.8.1 coming along? :)08:55
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Splash Screen Testers Needed | Precise: Beta 2 Freeze - Bug hunting: http://ur1.ca/8kam4 | http://ur1.ca/8kamo TODOs! | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/12.04-lts-announce | wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries | Milestoned beasties http://goo.gl/9iyUD
jussiGood morning all09:04
jussiRiddell: ping09:04
Riddellhi jussi 09:04
Riddellif you grew oranges would they be jussi oranges?  that's the best sort of orange09:05
jussilol09:05
jussiRiddell: I was wondering if you had time to fix atiny bug in calligra for me, I can give you the exact file that needs to be edited, as well as a description of what needs doing, I just dont have the skill to do it myself09:06
jussiits kde bug 29655309:06
ubottuKDE bug 296553 in usability "No borders around slides in documents view" [Normal,Unconfirmed: ] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29655309:06
Riddelljussi: could do, what's needed?09:06
jussiand the file that needs modification is  libs/kopageapp/KoPADocumentStructureDocker.cpp09:07
jussiRiddell: basically just need to add a 1-2px border around the slide, so you can see a white slide against a whte background09:08
jussithe Calligra guys said they would be happy to take a patch for it09:08
RiddellDarkwing, rbelem, afiestas, JontheEchidna: you need to confirm with marianna you are going to UDS09:15
Riddelljussi: which side docket window is this?09:21
Riddelldocker window09:21
Riddellah, Document ?09:21
Riddelljussi: I see borders http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/calligrastage.png09:22
Riddelleven on empty theme I get them09:23
Riddellshadeslayer: subject: [ubuntu/oneiric-proposed] virtuoso-opensource 6.1.3+dfsg1-1ubuntu1.1 accepted09:56
Riddellmind and test it again09:56
shadeslayeryup, scheduled for Monday09:56
shadeslayeroh btw09:58
shadeslayerRiddell: get one of these : http://www.chalk-elec.com/ for ye pandaboard and run PA on it :P09:59
Riddellshadeslayer: what is it?10:08
shadeslayerRiddell: a LVDS LCD Touchscreen10:09
Riddelloh Plasma Active10:09
shadeslayeryeah 10:09
RiddellI could also just work out where to get a tablet from10:09
shadeslayerI would not recommend that10:10
Riddellwhy not?10:10
Riddellwhoever makes those ones aseigo is selling must have other distributors to get them from while we wait for aseigo to ship out large numbers10:10
shadeslayerRiddell: OEM's are weird, stuff that works in one version don't work on a new revision10:10
shadeslayerahh10:10
shadeslayervivaladi10:10
* shadeslayer fears that is one underpowered tablet10:11
shadeslayerbut lets not jump to conclusions10:11
Riddellwell yes it wasn't looking quite iphone slick when I saw one but hey it's all in development10:11
shadeslayerI've yet to see it10:12
shadeslayerso far I've only used PA on the we tab10:12
Riddellwhat's a we tab?10:12
shadeslayerRiddell: heard about the exoPC?10:12
shadeslayerit's the exact same hardware10:13
shadeslayergerman manufacturer though, and it shipped meego10:13
Riddelloh aye10:13
* shadeslayer needs a el cheapo pandaboard10:13
Riddellcheapo is about $130 10:13
shadeslayeroh, where?10:14
shadeslayerThey've almost doubled the price here in India10:14
Riddellfrom the US http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/texas-instruments-pandaboard/68610:14
shadeslayerit's 313 USD here10:14
Riddell$182.00 for ES plus shipping10:14
shadeslayer:O10:15
Riddell$174.00 for plain plus shipping10:15
shadeslayerRiddell: you said 130 USD :OP10:15
shadeslayers/O//10:15
kubotushadeslayer meant: "Riddell: you said 130 USD :P"10:15
Riddells/130/182/10:15
kubotuRiddell: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"10:15
shadeslayerhmm10:15
Riddellwe all make typos 10:15
shadeslayerhmm .. I'm certain that customs will be insane10:16
Riddellyes10:17
shadeslayerso, who's coming to India from the US :P10:20
Riddellyou should have got UDS sponsorship, never mind the exams10:21
shadeslayeryeah, have fun explaining why I have to do another year of uni to my parents :P10:23
shadeslayeronly 20 more days of uni for me ... then I'm free :D10:24
shadeslayerRiddell: how much did you get it for in the UK?10:27
Riddellshadeslayer: dunno its yet to arrive and they want me to confirm I really do have kubuntu.org10:27
shadeslayerRiddell: eh? What was that you had in the picture?10:27
shadeslayer( on your blog )10:28
Riddellthat's another one I got sent from someone in canonical and everyone says it's broken (even though it works fine with oneiric)10:28
shadeslayerhmm10:28
shadeslayerI'll have a look at other distrubutors10:30
freglRiddell: I don't know more than you, ask on development@qt-project.org10:49
jussiRiddell: did you do that? 11:25
Riddelljussi: no but I'm running RC 2 and it's there11:25
JontheEchidnaRiddell: I sent a mail to Marianna last night. Unfortunately UDS falls on final exam week for me. :(11:26
jussiheh, well then, thats nice. I guess someoen can closer my bug...11:26
RiddellJontheEchidna: so you can't come?11:26
JontheEchidnaright. I tried to get my exams rescheduled, but one is a presentation and my professor won't let me make alternate accommodations11:27
Riddellsmelly him11:27
Riddellthanks for trying11:27
shadeslayerJontheEchidna: hahah, so you're stuck just like me :P11:32
BluesKajHey all11:36
freglhi pstolowski12:25
freglso you had unity 2d and qt-at-spi issues?12:25
pstolowskihi fregl 12:25
pstolowskifregl, so yeah, we have unity-2d crash when accessibility is enabled12:25
pstolowskifregl, the original bug report is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/91856612:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 918566 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QCoreApplication::notifyInternal()" [High,Confirmed]12:26
pstolowskifregl, backtrace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/896365/12:28
pstolowskifregl, the original steps in the bug description don't seem to reproduce the crash anymore, but I've described an alternative way for reproducing it (by switching lenses in the dash) that works 100%12:30
freglpstolowski: I don't know much about unity - but what kind of qml element triggers it?12:31
freglpstolowski: I guess you have the accessible attached property in there?12:31
pstolowskifregl, it seems that the crash occurs on a QDeclarativeColumn element - look at my last comment in the bug report12:33
freglpstolowski: also the qt-at-spi bridge is at the latest release I did? 0.2.0?12:33
pstolowskifregl, yes, 0.2.012:34
pstolowskifregl, not sure what do you mean by accessible attached property?12:35
freglpstolowski: in qml the accessibility is enabled by a thing called "attached property" that gets created when you write Accessible.name = "somelabel" for example12:36
freglpstolowski: how about installing debug symbols for libqtdeclarative? does that give more in the bt?12:39
apoldoes anybody know where I can find a sources.list format specification?12:43
pstolowskifregl, I can't tell if we set accessible property for all objects12:43
freglpstolowski: dig into the code, it should be easy. and I hope you don't. you should set it for objects that are relevant to accessibility.12:44
freglpstolowski: what's the best way to see the patches that you guys now have on top of Qt?12:45
pstolowskifregl, so yeah, we only set it for our "global" objects12:45
pstolowskifregl, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/qt4-x11/precise/files/head:/debian/patches/12:48
pstolowskifregl, have to install qt dbg pkgs since I've fresh system again12:50
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ScottKshadeslayer: The difference between you and JontheEchidna is that he has exams one week a semester.  You seem to have them almost every week of the year.12:56
shadeslayermore like one week a month13:06
pstolowskifregl, new stacktrace, with dbg symbols: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/896407/13:06
shadeslayerthen there's assignments, presentations and what not13:07
freglpstolowski: ah, that looks better :)13:07
pstolowskifregl, so, as I mentioned in the bug report, the 'item' in sendGeometryUpdate argument matches one of the QDeclarativeColumn in qt-at-spi warnings13:09
pstolowskifregl, however qt-at-spi gives a lot of warnings, and the item in question is not the last warning when it crashes13:10
freglyes, the warnings should be unreleated13:11
freglpstolowski: can you try a patch for me? http://pastebin.com/eknNKmiP13:13
pstolowskifregl, ok, however the warnings give a clue of what type of objects may be causing issue, no?13:14
pstolowskifregl, this patch is for qt?13:14
freglI did the same for Qt 5. We send a completely useless event there which leads sometimes to crashing if the object is being destroyed in the meantime.13:14
freglpstolowski: yes, it's for qt13:15
pstolowskifregl, all right, sure, but this will take a while, since I haven't compiled qt from sources, and this is on VM ;)13:16
freglpstolowski: no, the warning you see says basically: the bridge ignores some accessibility update in a switch and should be updated to handle it. but letting an event pass by unhandled should not cause any crashes.13:16
freglpstolowski: let me know how it goes. I actually think the patch is good, but check back with me before piling more patches onto your poor build of Qt ;)13:16
pstolowskifregl, yes, I understand; what I mean it just gives away  the addresses and types of objects, and it's useful to match against sendGeometryUpdate argument to know the type13:18
freglah, ok13:19
freglwe should stop sending so many geometry updates anyway. but that's a different topic.13:19
pstolowskifregl, ok, thanks, will ping or email you later when I've something13:25
freglpstolowski: yes, do that :)13:25
Riddelldebfx: how come this is private? https://launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/firefox-kde13:54
ScottKHow can it be private?13:56
RiddellScottK: presumably someone set it thus13:57
Riddellmaybe he's part of some conspiracy!13:57
ScottKCertainly, but those aren't generally available without subscription.13:57
ryanakcaWould someone with access to a 12.04 box be willing to test if a no-change rebuild fixes a bug in python-poppler-qt4? ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/frescobaldi/+bug/939196 )14:00
Riddellmaybe he paid lots of money!14:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 939196 in frescobaldi (Ubuntu) "frescobaldi crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base()" [Medium,Confirmed]14:00
BluesKajmakes it reallyencouraging to help there:) why hide it ?14:00
ryanakca( test package available in ppa:ryanakca/frescobaldi, python-poppler-qt=0.16.2-1~precise1~ppa1 )14:05
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shadeslayerScottK: Riddell there's a new tp-qt release which now supports voice calls with the new farstream library, should I file a FFe tomorrow?14:20
Riddellshadeslayer: what else does it have?  I don't think we have any application that uses voice calls so that alone isn't much of a reason14:22
shadeslayerRiddell: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/telepathy/2012-March/006022.html14:22
Riddellshadeslayer: blurg to geeky :) needs kde-telepathy people to say why it's needed14:23
shadeslayerSure, I'll ask them14:25
shadeslayerRiddell: upstream says yes14:27
Riddellshadeslayer: but it needs a rationale!14:29
shadeslayersure, telepathy qt is currently using farsight which has been removed from the repos in favor of farstream14:30
tsdgeosRiddell: yes. Reason: because yes14:30
shadeslayernew release supports farstream bindings, hence we want this new release14:30
shadeslayerif you try and install the tp-qt-dev package right now, it won't install because it depends on the old farsight bindings14:31
Riddellshadeslayer: now there's good reason14:31
Riddellshadeslayer: next step beastie filing :)14:31
shadeslayerwill do tomorrow14:31
shadeslayerI'm trying to figure out this crash14:32
BluesKajhow do other users make kde their default desktop ...someone is asking me in another chat and I have no experience with that 14:34
Riddellafiestas (as I said to drf)if you want sessions at UDS please add them here so I can register them when the time comes wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries14:38
RiddellBluesKaj: it depends on the login manager14:38
BluesKajRiddell,  i think they want an automatic selection at login 14:40
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BluesKajRiddell,  nm , the guy needed to add the other users after installing kubuntu14:50
RiddellBluesKaj: yes15:00
afiestasRiddell: will do ! 15:07
Riddellyay, alternates way under size, go me! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20120323/15:09
afiestasRiddell: got an email from MArianna saying: Thank you for registering for UDS Q.15:10
afiestasdo I need to email her anyway?15:10
Riddellafiestas: yes I think so (at least the spreadsheet I saw had you down as no response yet)15:11
afiestasRiddell:  done, thanks for reminder !15:13
Riddellshadeslayer: talk to kenvandine about telepathy-qt15:13
shadeslayerRiddell: already done15:14
shadeslayerhe's doing the tp-qt release15:14
* shadeslayer wants to finish writing off tests today15:15
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superflyUh, I just tried to upgrade to precise, and I now longer have KDE installed...18:39
superflySudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop tells me there are broken packages18:40
superfly(I'm on my phone atm)18:40
Riddellsuperfly: support in #kubuntu18:41
superflyRiddell: ah right, sorry...18:41
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grmlshi21:38
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DarkwingRiddell: I'll do that shortly22:48
RiddellDarkwing: you rock!22:48
DarkwingRiddell: I don't have my flight info just yet. 22:48
DarkwingRiddell: I emailed her letting her know that I am still coming.22:51
debfxRiddell: I have disabled that PPA23:01
Riddelldebfx: ah and launchpad is saying private when it should say disabled?23:25
Riddelldebfx: are the bits to firefox KDE integration a patch in the firefox package and firefox-kde-support?  is there anything more?23:26
debfxRiddell: I guess so23:28
debfxyeah it's two patches in firefox and the firefox-kde-support package23:29
rbelemhi Riddell 23:39
rbelemRiddell, i just made the changes to the kde-workspace debian/rules to build kwinactive23:40
rbelemRiddell, http://paste.kde.org/445376/23:40
rbelemRiddell, do you think it is ok?23:41
yofelrbelem: I doubt the quilt stuff will work, as it operates on the source, and you only have that once23:44
Whiskey`Wonkawhere does network-manager store its network configs? id like to move my existing ones from a 11.10 install to a 12.04 install23:48
rbelemyofel, do you have an idea how this should the done?23:48
rbelems/the/be/23:49
kuboturbelem meant: "yofel, do you have an idea how this should be done?"23:49
yofelnot really, or I'm just too tired to think of one23:50
rbelemyofel, :-)23:51
rbelemyofel, tomorrow i will ping you :-)23:51
RiddelllWhiskey`Wonka: support questions in #kubuntu23:52
ScottKshadeslayer: Ken VanDine got in ahead of you on libtelepathy-qt and the farstream/farsight thing.23:54
RiddelllScottK: I've already connected them up so I think they're on the same wavelength23:55
ScottKOK.  23:55
rbelemRiddelll, ScottK, ^ :-)23:55
ScottKI accepted it and de-New'ed it, so it's done.23:55
Riddellllovely23:56
Riddelllrbelem: I might have missed your current issue in the netsplits23:56
=== Riddelll is now known as Riddell
rbelemRiddelll, i made the changes to the kde-workspace debian/rules to build kwinactive23:56
rbelemRiddell, http://paste.kde.org/445376/23:57
rbelemRiddell, do you think it is ok?23:57
Riddellrbelem: oh funky, I'm a bit too tired/tipsy to review it tonight but don't let me forget23:57
rbelemoki23:58
rbelemRiddell, tomorrow i ll ping you23:58
rbelem:-)23:58
rbelemthanks23:58

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