[00:24] <JontheEchidna> apol_: http://i.imgur.com/2Mz5K.png
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> it just needed this: http://commits.kde.org/muon/f8353c57b1a09da0ecf04e8cf6f7def7581310ec
[00:25] <JontheEchidna> but afaict, phonon and muon are the only things in the kde source tree using QZeitgeist
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> well, and that kate plugin
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> but I don't think lxr indexes scratch repos
[01:15] <Darkwing> apachelogger: yes, but after the 12.04LTS
[01:19] <JontheEchidna> what's up w/ that?
[01:34] <Darkwing> Up with?
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> no kubuntu-docs after 12.04?
[01:38] <jjesse> why?
[01:52] <Darkwing> It was discussed at the last UDS but, having a welcome center written with links to KDE, Ubuntu, LibreOffice and other stuff we currently re-write was something that seemed to spark a lot of intrest.
[01:52] <Darkwing> I'm going to be bringing it up at UDS-Q again.
[01:53] <jjesse> no offense on an idea of a re-write but no one is really updating the docs for 12.04 in the first place so whose going to do a rewrite
[01:53] <jjesse> also i like the help file but that's just me
[01:55] <Darkwing> Not a re-write.
[01:56] <Darkwing> It will be in the form on a widget with HTML5
[01:56] <Darkwing> IE eliminate the kubuntu-docs package.
[01:56] <jjesse> so a break away from kde-docs?
[01:56] <Darkwing> Yes. KDE docs will still be shipped.
[01:56] <jjesse> cause we've always tried to stay as close to kde-docs as possible
[01:57] <jjesse> just like we try to stay as close to kde as possilbe
[01:57] <Darkwing> KDE Docs are shipped anyway. The idea is to take any efforts into system doc writing go to KDE Docs.
[01:57] <Darkwing> Having an HTML5 slideshow welcome center would help point people how to use and where to go for more help / info.
[01:58] <jjesse> sorry disagree competly
[01:58] <jjesse> system help still needs to be local
[01:58] <jjesse> and there needs to be a local kubuntu help for anything we change
[01:58] <Darkwing> But, there is nothing unique that isn't on KDE, help.ubuntu.com already.
[01:59] <jjesse> there needs to be a local help file
[01:59] <jjesse> that you can access w/o internet acces
[01:59] <Darkwing> and the 1 or 2 things that are, can be covered in the welcome center.
[01:59] <Darkwing> and those HTML5 files will be local.
[01:59] <jjesse> sorry i still disagree 
[02:00] <jjesse> kubuntu help should cover specific to kubuntu and there are plenty of things we don't leverage from kde-docs in my view
[02:00] <Darkwing> But, what is Kubuntu specific that KDE doesn't supply?
[02:02] <jjesse> i think there is a lot
[02:02] <jjesse> i think moving to a slideshow simplifies too much
[02:02] <jjesse> a lot of stuff about navigation, how to get help, ho to contribute, etc
[02:04] <Darkwing> This is why I had a full session at UDS-P And am planning on holding a full session at UDS-Q
[02:04] <jjesse> so i understand desire for sessions, etc but lets back up and actually get stuff done before we try to re-write something that won't get done
[02:05]  * jalcine listens.
[02:05] <Darkwing> While I see what you are saying, I'm watching us duplicate efforts that are already in place.
[02:05] <jjesse> sorry i still disagree that duplicate efforts are made
[02:05] <jjesse> 1st hardly any effort is being made
[02:06] <jjesse> 2nd there still needs to be a specific kubuntu help file that is stored local that covers ubuntu
[02:06] <jjesse> not kde and not ubuntu
[02:08] <jalcine> Like Ubuntu in detail?
[02:08] <jalcine> or Kubuntu?
[02:08] <jjesse> kubuntu
[02:08] <Darkwing> But that is what I am saying... Kubuntu in detail is KDE.
[02:08] <jalcine> Hm, why not copy the userbase's information into Docbook?
[02:08] <Darkwing> with very very minor changes.
[02:08] <jalcine> Darkwing has a point there.
[02:09] <jalcine> Like package managemen.
[02:09] <jjesse> look we've talked this through every release cycle about what we want to change w/ kubuntu-docs or ubuntu-docs and how we want to strip as much help from the system as possible and i competly believe it is wrong
[02:10] <jjesse> i believe there are items that are still specific to kubuntu that need to be used and link to the different guides like we attempt to do right now
[02:10] <jjesse> ubuntu-docs does a great job w/ this and mallard
[02:10] <Darkwing> Like what though? LibreOffice?
[02:10] <jjesse> i think basic navigation, stuff about kubuntu specific etc should be held localy
[02:11] <Darkwing> That is what the welcome center would cover.
[02:11] <jalcine> I think I've used local help on Ubuntu more in KDE than in GNOME.
[02:11] <Darkwing> It would be in a more... friendly location, easier to find and use
[02:11] <jjesse> i would argue if i handed someone kde-docs help and told them to figure things out they would immediately start searching the web
[02:11] <jalcine> It was more readily available and a bit more intuitive, imho. 
[02:11] <Darkwing> jjesse: That is my point. Kubuntu docs are just as bad.
[02:11] <Darkwing> so is KHelpCenter IMO.
[02:12] <jjesse> i think the problem is docbook 
[02:13] <jalcine> That's nature.
[02:13] <Darkwing> I would agree but, other then HTML what can we support?
[02:13] <Darkwing> KHelpCenter doesn't support Mallard.
[02:13] <Darkwing> and KDE Ships docbook.
[02:13] <Darkwing> *KDE Docs
[02:14] <jalcine> o.O
[02:14] <Darkwing> So, there isn't a push to move KHelpCenter to include anything else... and I believe it's an orphened program anyway.
[02:15] <jalcine> Can't KHelpCenter uses KIO to render man pages?
[02:15] <jalcine> Hmm, that would have been a decent GSoC task.
[02:15] <Darkwing> It's a poorly writen program that no one is developing on.
[02:15] <Darkwing> That is why we stuck with docbook.
[02:15] <jalcine> Hmm.
[02:16] <jalcine> Well, I had a question.
[02:16] <jalcine> Regarding documentation as a whole.
[02:16] <jjesse> shoot ask away
[02:16] <jalcine> Is there a Freedesktop standard for it?
[02:16] <jjesse> no idea
[02:16] <jjesse> but gnome uses mallard for docs and kde uses docbook
[02:17] <jalcine> If it were unified, it'd make things easier.
[02:17] <Darkwing> Until we including mallard into KHelpCenter we can't.
[02:17] <jalcine> This makes me want to apt-get source it and hack it.
[02:17] <Darkwing> and until we get a devel to work on KHelpCenter we can't.
[02:18] <Darkwing> This is why I'm trying to fix the issue by approaching it from a different angle
[02:19]  * jalcine didn't catch the angle.
[02:20] <jalcine> since I came in so late into the convo.
[02:24] <Darkwing> Kubuntu Welcome Center instead of Kubuntu system docs
[02:26] <jalcine> Hmm.
[02:27] <jalcine> A replacement for KHelpCenter or rather an addition/revamping of KHelpCenter?
[02:32] <jalcine> A replacement for KHelpCenter or rather an addition/revamping of KHelpCenter? 
[08:53] <Riddell> release team meeting today, what shall I report we have done this week?
[08:53] <Riddell> Darkwing: get anywhere with docs package?
[08:55] <Riddell> fregl: how is qt 4.8.1 coming along? :)
[09:04] <jussi> Good morning all
[09:04] <jussi> Riddell: ping
[09:04] <Riddell> hi jussi 
[09:05] <Riddell> if you grew oranges would they be jussi oranges?  that's the best sort of orange
[09:05] <jussi> lol
[09:06] <jussi> Riddell: I was wondering if you had time to fix atiny bug in calligra for me, I can give you the exact file that needs to be edited, as well as a description of what needs doing, I just dont have the skill to do it myself
[09:06] <jussi> its kde bug 296553
[09:06] <Riddell> jussi: could do, what's needed?
[09:07] <jussi> and the file that needs modification is  libs/kopageapp/KoPADocumentStructureDocker.cpp
[09:08] <jussi> Riddell: basically just need to add a 1-2px border around the slide, so you can see a white slide against a whte background
[09:08] <jussi> the Calligra guys said they would be happy to take a patch for it
[09:15] <Riddell> Darkwing, rbelem, afiestas, JontheEchidna: you need to confirm with marianna you are going to UDS
[09:21] <Riddell> jussi: which side docket window is this?
[09:21] <Riddell> docker window
[09:21] <Riddell> ah, Document ?
[09:22] <Riddell> jussi: I see borders http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/calligrastage.png
[09:23] <Riddell> even on empty theme I get them
[09:56] <Riddell> shadeslayer: subject: [ubuntu/oneiric-proposed] virtuoso-opensource 6.1.3+dfsg1-1ubuntu1.1 accepted
[09:56] <Riddell> mind and test it again
[09:56] <shadeslayer> yup, scheduled for Monday
[09:58] <shadeslayer> oh btw
[09:59] <shadeslayer> Riddell: get one of these : http://www.chalk-elec.com/ for ye pandaboard and run PA on it :P
[10:08] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what is it?
[10:09] <shadeslayer> Riddell: a LVDS LCD Touchscreen
[10:09] <Riddell> oh Plasma Active
[10:09] <shadeslayer> yeah 
[10:09] <Riddell> I could also just work out where to get a tablet from
[10:10] <shadeslayer> I would not recommend that
[10:10] <Riddell> why not?
[10:10] <Riddell> whoever makes those ones aseigo is selling must have other distributors to get them from while we wait for aseigo to ship out large numbers
[10:10] <shadeslayer> Riddell: OEM's are weird, stuff that works in one version don't work on a new revision
[10:10] <shadeslayer> ahh
[10:10] <shadeslayer> vivaladi
[10:11]  * shadeslayer fears that is one underpowered tablet
[10:11] <shadeslayer> but lets not jump to conclusions
[10:11] <Riddell> well yes it wasn't looking quite iphone slick when I saw one but hey it's all in development
[10:12] <shadeslayer> I've yet to see it
[10:12] <shadeslayer> so far I've only used PA on the we tab
[10:12] <Riddell> what's a we tab?
[10:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: heard about the exoPC?
[10:13] <shadeslayer> it's the exact same hardware
[10:13] <shadeslayer> german manufacturer though, and it shipped meego
[10:13] <Riddell> oh aye
[10:13]  * shadeslayer needs a el cheapo pandaboard
[10:13] <Riddell> cheapo is about $130 
[10:14] <shadeslayer> oh, where?
[10:14] <shadeslayer> They've almost doubled the price here in India
[10:14] <Riddell> from the US http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/texas-instruments-pandaboard/686
[10:14] <shadeslayer> it's 313 USD here
[10:14] <Riddell> $182.00 for ES plus shipping
[10:15] <shadeslayer> :O
[10:15] <Riddell> $174.00 for plain plus shipping
[10:15] <shadeslayer> Riddell: you said 130 USD :OP
[10:15] <shadeslayer> s/O//
[10:15] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "Riddell: you said 130 USD :P"
[10:15] <Riddell> s/130/182/
[10:15] <kubotu> Riddell: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[10:15] <shadeslayer> hmm
[10:15] <Riddell> we all make typos 
[10:16] <shadeslayer> hmm .. I'm certain that customs will be insane
[10:17] <Riddell> yes
[10:20] <shadeslayer> so, who's coming to India from the US :P
[10:21] <Riddell> you should have got UDS sponsorship, never mind the exams
[10:23] <shadeslayer> yeah, have fun explaining why I have to do another year of uni to my parents :P
[10:24] <shadeslayer> only 20 more days of uni for me ... then I'm free :D
[10:27] <shadeslayer> Riddell: how much did you get it for in the UK?
[10:27] <Riddell> shadeslayer: dunno its yet to arrive and they want me to confirm I really do have kubuntu.org
[10:27] <shadeslayer> Riddell: eh? What was that you had in the picture?
[10:28] <shadeslayer> ( on your blog )
[10:28] <Riddell> that's another one I got sent from someone in canonical and everyone says it's broken (even though it works fine with oneiric)
[10:28] <shadeslayer> hmm
[10:30] <shadeslayer> I'll have a look at other distrubutors
[10:49] <fregl> Riddell: I don't know more than you, ask on development@qt-project.org
[11:25] <jussi> Riddell: did you do that? 
[11:25] <Riddell> jussi: no but I'm running RC 2 and it's there
[11:26] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I sent a mail to Marianna last night. Unfortunately UDS falls on final exam week for me. :(
[11:26] <jussi> heh, well then, thats nice. I guess someoen can closer my bug...
[11:26] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: so you can't come?
[11:27] <JontheEchidna> right. I tried to get my exams rescheduled, but one is a presentation and my professor won't let me make alternate accommodations
[11:27] <Riddell> smelly him
[11:27] <Riddell> thanks for trying
[11:32] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: hahah, so you're stuck just like me :P
[11:36] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:25] <fregl> hi pstolowski
[12:25] <fregl> so you had unity 2d and qt-at-spi issues?
[12:25] <pstolowski> hi fregl 
[12:25] <pstolowski> fregl, so yeah, we have unity-2d crash when accessibility is enabled
[12:26] <pstolowski> fregl, the original bug report is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/918566
[12:28] <pstolowski> fregl, backtrace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/896365/
[12:30] <pstolowski> fregl, the original steps in the bug description don't seem to reproduce the crash anymore, but I've described an alternative way for reproducing it (by switching lenses in the dash) that works 100%
[12:31] <fregl> pstolowski: I don't know much about unity - but what kind of qml element triggers it?
[12:31] <fregl> pstolowski: I guess you have the accessible attached property in there?
[12:33] <pstolowski> fregl, it seems that the crash occurs on a QDeclarativeColumn element - look at my last comment in the bug report
[12:33] <fregl> pstolowski: also the qt-at-spi bridge is at the latest release I did? 0.2.0?
[12:34] <pstolowski> fregl, yes, 0.2.0
[12:35] <pstolowski> fregl, not sure what do you mean by accessible attached property?
[12:36] <fregl> pstolowski: in qml the accessibility is enabled by a thing called "attached property" that gets created when you write Accessible.name = "somelabel" for example
[12:39] <fregl> pstolowski: how about installing debug symbols for libqtdeclarative? does that give more in the bt?
[12:43] <apol> does anybody know where I can find a sources.list format specification?
[12:43] <pstolowski> fregl, I can't tell if we set accessible property for all objects
[12:44] <fregl> pstolowski: dig into the code, it should be easy. and I hope you don't. you should set it for objects that are relevant to accessibility.
[12:45] <fregl> pstolowski: what's the best way to see the patches that you guys now have on top of Qt?
[12:45] <pstolowski> fregl, so yeah, we only set it for our "global" objects
[12:48] <pstolowski> fregl, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/qt4-x11/precise/files/head:/debian/patches/
[12:50] <pstolowski> fregl, have to install qt dbg pkgs since I've fresh system again
[12:56] <ScottK> shadeslayer: The difference between you and JontheEchidna is that he has exams one week a semester.  You seem to have them almost every week of the year.
[13:06] <shadeslayer> more like one week a month
[13:06] <pstolowski> fregl, new stacktrace, with dbg symbols: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/896407/
[13:07] <shadeslayer> then there's assignments, presentations and what not
[13:07] <fregl> pstolowski: ah, that looks better :)
[13:09] <pstolowski> fregl, so, as I mentioned in the bug report, the 'item' in sendGeometryUpdate argument matches one of the QDeclarativeColumn in qt-at-spi warnings
[13:10] <pstolowski> fregl, however qt-at-spi gives a lot of warnings, and the item in question is not the last warning when it crashes
[13:11] <fregl> yes, the warnings should be unreleated
[13:13] <fregl> pstolowski: can you try a patch for me? http://pastebin.com/eknNKmiP
[13:14] <pstolowski> fregl, ok, however the warnings give a clue of what type of objects may be causing issue, no?
[13:14] <pstolowski> fregl, this patch is for qt?
[13:14] <fregl> I did the same for Qt 5. We send a completely useless event there which leads sometimes to crashing if the object is being destroyed in the meantime.
[13:15] <fregl> pstolowski: yes, it's for qt
[13:16] <pstolowski> fregl, all right, sure, but this will take a while, since I haven't compiled qt from sources, and this is on VM ;)
[13:16] <fregl> pstolowski: no, the warning you see says basically: the bridge ignores some accessibility update in a switch and should be updated to handle it. but letting an event pass by unhandled should not cause any crashes.
[13:16] <fregl> pstolowski: let me know how it goes. I actually think the patch is good, but check back with me before piling more patches onto your poor build of Qt ;)
[13:18] <pstolowski> fregl, yes, I understand; what I mean it just gives away  the addresses and types of objects, and it's useful to match against sendGeometryUpdate argument to know the type
[13:19] <fregl> ah, ok
[13:19] <fregl> we should stop sending so many geometry updates anyway. but that's a different topic.
[13:25] <pstolowski> fregl, ok, thanks, will ping or email you later when I've something
[13:25] <fregl> pstolowski: yes, do that :)
[13:54] <Riddell> debfx: how come this is private? https://launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/firefox-kde
[13:56] <ScottK> How can it be private?
[13:57] <Riddell> ScottK: presumably someone set it thus
[13:57] <Riddell> maybe he's part of some conspiracy!
[13:57] <ScottK> Certainly, but those aren't generally available without subscription.
[14:00] <ryanakca> Would someone with access to a 12.04 box be willing to test if a no-change rebuild fixes a bug in python-poppler-qt4? ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/frescobaldi/+bug/939196 )
[14:00] <Riddell> maybe he paid lots of money!
[14:00] <BluesKaj> makes it reallyencouraging to help there:) why hide it ?
[14:05] <ryanakca> ( test package available in ppa:ryanakca/frescobaldi, python-poppler-qt=0.16.2-1~precise1~ppa1 )
[14:20] <shadeslayer> ScottK: Riddell there's a new tp-qt release which now supports voice calls with the new farstream library, should I file a FFe tomorrow?
[14:22] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what else does it have?  I don't think we have any application that uses voice calls so that alone isn't much of a reason
[14:22] <shadeslayer> Riddell: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/telepathy/2012-March/006022.html
[14:23] <Riddell> shadeslayer: blurg to geeky :) needs kde-telepathy people to say why it's needed
[14:25] <shadeslayer> Sure, I'll ask them
[14:27] <shadeslayer> Riddell: upstream says yes
[14:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer: but it needs a rationale!
[14:30] <shadeslayer> sure, telepathy qt is currently using farsight which has been removed from the repos in favor of farstream
[14:30] <tsdgeos> Riddell: yes. Reason: because yes
[14:30] <shadeslayer> new release supports farstream bindings, hence we want this new release
[14:31] <shadeslayer> if you try and install the tp-qt-dev package right now, it won't install because it depends on the old farsight bindings
[14:31] <Riddell> shadeslayer: now there's good reason
[14:31] <Riddell> shadeslayer: next step beastie filing :)
[14:31] <shadeslayer> will do tomorrow
[14:32] <shadeslayer> I'm trying to figure out this crash
[14:34] <BluesKaj> how do other users make kde their default desktop ...someone is asking me in another chat and I have no experience with that 
[14:38] <Riddell> afiestas (as I said to drf)if you want sessions at UDS please add them here so I can register them when the time comes wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSQSeries
[14:38] <Riddell> BluesKaj: it depends on the login manager
[14:40] <BluesKaj> Riddell,  i think they want an automatic selection at login 
[14:50] <BluesKaj> Riddell,  nm , the guy needed to add the other users after installing kubuntu
[15:00] <Riddell> BluesKaj: yes
[15:07] <afiestas> Riddell: will do ! 
[15:09] <Riddell> yay, alternates way under size, go me! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20120323/
[15:10] <afiestas> Riddell: got an email from MArianna saying: Thank you for registering for UDS Q.
[15:10] <afiestas> do I need to email her anyway?
[15:11] <Riddell> afiestas: yes I think so (at least the spreadsheet I saw had you down as no response yet)
[15:13] <afiestas> Riddell:  done, thanks for reminder !
[15:13] <Riddell> shadeslayer: talk to kenvandine about telepathy-qt
[15:14] <shadeslayer> Riddell: already done
[15:14] <shadeslayer> he's doing the tp-qt release
[15:15]  * shadeslayer wants to finish writing off tests today
[18:39] <superfly> Uh, I just tried to upgrade to precise, and I now longer have KDE installed...
[18:40] <superfly> Sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop tells me there are broken packages
[18:40] <superfly> (I'm on my phone atm)
[18:41] <Riddell> superfly: support in #kubuntu
[18:41] <superfly> Riddell: ah right, sorry...
[21:38] <grmls> hi
[22:48] <Darkwing> Riddell: I'll do that shortly
[22:48] <Riddell> Darkwing: you rock!
[22:48] <Darkwing> Riddell: I don't have my flight info just yet. 
[22:51] <Darkwing> Riddell: I emailed her letting her know that I am still coming.
[23:01] <debfx> Riddell: I have disabled that PPA
[23:25] <Riddell> debfx: ah and launchpad is saying private when it should say disabled?
[23:26] <Riddell> debfx: are the bits to firefox KDE integration a patch in the firefox package and firefox-kde-support?  is there anything more?
[23:28] <debfx> Riddell: I guess so
[23:29] <debfx> yeah it's two patches in firefox and the firefox-kde-support package
[23:39] <rbelem> hi Riddell 
[23:40] <rbelem> Riddell, i just made the changes to the kde-workspace debian/rules to build kwinactive
[23:40] <rbelem> Riddell, http://paste.kde.org/445376/
[23:41] <rbelem> Riddell, do you think it is ok?
[23:44] <yofel> rbelem: I doubt the quilt stuff will work, as it operates on the source, and you only have that once
[23:48] <Whiskey`Wonka> where does network-manager store its network configs? id like to move my existing ones from a 11.10 install to a 12.04 install
[23:48] <rbelem> yofel, do you have an idea how this should the done?
[23:49] <rbelem> s/the/be/
[23:49] <kubotu> rbelem meant: "yofel, do you have an idea how this should be done?"
[23:50] <yofel> not really, or I'm just too tired to think of one
[23:51] <rbelem> yofel, :-)
[23:51] <rbelem> yofel, tomorrow i will ping you :-)
[23:52] <Riddelll> Whiskey`Wonka: support questions in #kubuntu
[23:54] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Ken VanDine got in ahead of you on libtelepathy-qt and the farstream/farsight thing.
[23:55] <Riddelll> ScottK: I've already connected them up so I think they're on the same wavelength
[23:55] <ScottK> OK.  
[23:55] <rbelem> Riddelll, ScottK, ^ :-)
[23:55] <ScottK> I accepted it and de-New'ed it, so it's done.
[23:56] <Riddelll> lovely
[23:56] <Riddelll> rbelem: I might have missed your current issue in the netsplits
[23:56] <rbelem> Riddelll, i made the changes to the kde-workspace debian/rules to build kwinactive
[23:57] <rbelem> Riddell, http://paste.kde.org/445376/
[23:57] <rbelem> Riddell, do you think it is ok?
[23:57] <Riddell> rbelem: oh funky, I'm a bit too tired/tipsy to review it tonight but don't let me forget
[23:58] <rbelem> oki
[23:58] <rbelem> Riddell, tomorrow i ll ping you
[23:58] <rbelem> :-)
[23:58] <rbelem> thanks