=== Lirusaito is now known as Inusaito [00:17] hey i somehow got my pulseaudio+alsa screwed up due to trying to test bluetooth stuff, is there anyway to completely reinstall all alsa/pulseaudio related packages (also whatever necessary bluetooth stuff) ? === ripps_ is now known as ripps [00:35] how do i get my time indicator back on the top right [00:41] how do i get my time indicator back on the top right lost it last night and had to reload ubuntu-desktop [00:48] itaylor57, indicator-datetime [00:49] is pulseaudio working in pangolin right now? [00:49] Yes. [00:50] i can't for the life of me get pulseaudio to pick up my bluetooth sound device ... although "aplay -D bt -f s16_le /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Left.wav" works as expected [00:50] err... -D bluetooth [00:51] Daekdroom, any suggestions? [00:51] Can't think of anything. [00:53] i think the problem is that i was using oneric and updated to the ppa audio dev stuff for alsa... and since upgrading to pangolin now the sound indicator (and sound settings) won't show any of my sound devices at all [00:57] Daekdroom, thanks gonna reboot to see if it worked [01:02] Daekdroom, worked like a charm, for some reason my googlefu is weak lately [01:37] do you feel all these updates are making significant stability differences? [02:03] libimobiledevice 1.0.7 allows ios 5 to connect to linux thus me not needed to use windows nearly ever [02:03] thetinyjesus_, why that particular version [02:03] !find libimobiledevice [02:03] Found: libimobiledevice-dev, libimobiledevice-doc, libimobiledevice2, libimobiledevice2-dbg, libimobiledevice-utils [02:03] cos the older one doesnt [02:04] !info libimobiledevice-utils [02:04] libimobiledevice-utils (source: libimobiledevice): Library for communicating with iPhone and iPod Touch devices. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.1-4 (precise), package size 54 kB, installed size 193 kB (Only available for any all) [02:04] the one that is in the ubuntu repositories is an older version that will not connect and idk how to compile [02:04] jesus knew how to compile [02:04] 1.1.1 is older than 1.0.7 ? [02:04] yeah those are test versions doesnt match the real versions [02:05] pardon? [02:05] !info libimobiledevice2 [02:05] libimobiledevice2 (source: libimobiledevice): Library for communicating with the iPhone and iPod Touch. In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.1-4 (precise), package size 56 kB, installed size 175 kB (Only available for any all) [02:05] fake version numbers [02:05] they release differently like 1.0.6 came out when 1.1.1 came out [02:05] whats a fake version number [02:06] the new test is 1.1.2 and 1.0.7 is the one that works with ios 5 [02:06] and where is this "real" newer version available [02:06] right, i knew what he meant, probably from upstream [02:06] on the libimobiledevice website [02:06] so get it and compile it [02:07] !build-essential | thetinyjesus_ [02:07] thetinyjesus_: Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first) [02:07] hes basically saying the ubuntu version doesnt support ios 5 [02:07] of course it does [02:07] apparently not [02:07] snadge, thats what he's *saying* [02:07] not for music transfer trust me i researched for days and tried every "fix" [02:07] making things up to suit your reasoning doesn't support anything [02:08] there you go, that should probably be fixed prior to release [02:08] thetinyjesus_, what did you try exactly [02:08] its non critical package [02:08] anyway you can download http://www.libimobiledevice.org/downloads/libimobiledevice-1.1.2.tar.bz2 and compile it. see what ubottu told you about compiling [02:09] you can view EVERYTHING on the ipod/iphone but the library system in ios5 is different [02:09] thetinyjesus_, what are the fixes that you tried [02:09] so when you go to transfer a song it gets corrupted because it didnt save to the iphone in the correct "pattern" or what not [02:09] all the different ways people mentioned in forums [02:10] if you look at the website, they just released the new version on the 22nd that actually supposed ios 5 [02:10] the fix is obviously upstream, if i was a betting man, id put money on the newer version fixing it ;) [02:10] thetinyjesus_, it'd be helpful if you mentioned those, so as to avoid having to repeat them while troubleshooting the issue [02:10] http://www.libimobiledevice.org/ [02:10] the forums fixes [02:11] surely ubuntu has a process for merging something nonessential like that, this close to release [02:11] or is that a debian issue, i dont know [02:11] its called a ppa [02:11] something nonessential which over 100 million people own? [02:11] thats only counting within the past year sales.. [02:11] i meant nonessential as in, wont break anything else [02:11] 100 million Debian / Ubuntu users have iThings? [02:11] 100 million people use ubuntu? [02:12] its still significant [02:12] w00h00! [02:12] lol bazhang [02:12] it would be better if ithings worked with precise [02:12] instead of having to resort to a ppa [02:12] indeed [02:12] 1.1.1-4 has a patch backported to support mounting ios 5 devices, did that version not work for you? [02:12] which blows [02:12] mounting works fine [02:12] thetinyjesus_, ^ [02:12] you can mount them you just cant copy music to them [02:12] its the music library that doesnt work [02:12] read scrollback [02:13] theres about 150 million iphones and 320 million ipods.. thats a huge number of people who need ios 5 to work [02:13] no need I was here [02:13] or they have to result and use mac or windows [02:13] i dont have any idevices, i hate apple with a violent passion [02:13] you can copy music and photos from them but not to them [02:13] i didnt ask if you hated them, idc [02:13] but even i respect that package should be updated [02:13] oh dear [02:14] i dont understand why linux people get so uptight about people with idevices, they work so does linux thats why i use it my androids all mess up after 5 months [02:15] its too fragmented until google can do something about it [02:15] thetinyjesus_, so you have tried the backported fix then? [02:15] I kind of agree with thetinyjesus - I switched Blackberry, to Android, and then back to Blackberry for now. Android is cool, but cool doesn't always work very well. [02:15] i have doubts that they hype of the web site matches reality [02:16] bazhang, the fix i need is to just to not be lazy and compile the new version that actually works [02:16] thetinyjesus_, so yes? no? [02:16] bazhang, i dont remember do you have a link [02:17] thetinyjesus_, let me check the forums [02:17] I have a really quick question, when someone gets a chance: I'm using the beta, which is working absolutely flawlessly for me... when release date comes, is it recommended simply to "upgrade" to the release, or would you suggest a full re-install? [02:19] Jay_Man, it will automagicly be the release [02:19] so if every thing goes well just keep using it as is [02:19] automagically without a do-dist-upgrade (or whatever the command is lol) [02:20] 12.04 is working so much better now than even a week ago [02:20] if you are using the beta you dont have a dist to upgrade to [02:20] I still get confused about having use dist-upgrade even though I'm not :D [02:21] if you are in the beta channel you are using 12.04 so there is no new dist to upgrade to [02:21] I had installed 11.10, and couldn't get java to work at all... tbh I haven't been using Ubuntu for over a year, but my previous distro let me down, so I decided to give it a shot... I nearly gave up again, but once I threw the beta on, I was right back on board! [02:21] bandit5342 new kernels get held back unless I use dist-upgrade it seems for me at least [02:22] cryptotheslow, weird [02:22] probably some option I set somewhere [02:22] bandit5432: Correct, I'm on 12.04 - but I wasn't sure if there was a "release" in the update manager that pops up telling you that you can upgrade from "Beta" to "release". I do see your point though. [02:23] apt-get dist-upgrade is not the same as upgrading between releases [02:23] Jay_Man, there has not been as long as i can remember others can correct me if i am wrong i always tried to do the dist upgrade in the past it never worked [02:23] when i was already on testing that is [02:24] trism, thanks. Thinking about it the same happens on my 10.04 server as well. [02:24] trism: Yes, I read this the other day. dist-upgrade has something to do with new dependancies. Its sort of a fail-safe to ensure that you realise that something more substantial is changing. A regular apt-get upgrade only upgrades existing packages. [02:25] makes sense [02:25] Jay_Man: indeed [02:25] thetinyjesus_, i am trying to compile as we speak [02:25] so were one needed (which it's not) what would be the command to upg to a new release? (last off topic I promise!) [02:25] In order to upgrade to a new "version", you use the command: do-release-upgrade [02:26] aha [02:26] ty [02:26] ;) [02:26] np [02:26] never upgraded before, always clean install - good to know though. [02:27] Which is the command I thought I'd need to use to upgrade from 12.04 beta, to 12.04 release... but I'm hearing that I shouldn't have to. I usually do a full re-install, but its just working so well... I hate to do it for nothing. [02:27] Jay_Man, no, you don't have to run do-release-upgrade to go from beta to final. [02:27] Alreay comes up with a little LTS logo on the desktop here on initial startup [02:27] A sudo apt-get dist-upgrade will suffice. [02:27] cryptotheslow, adding that in the last minute can be troublesome. [02:28] Daekdroom, adding what? [02:28] Daekdroom: Thanks, very good to know. [02:28] cryptotheslow, 'LTS' [02:28] Or 12.04, for that matter. [02:28] Daekdroom: quite troublesome, given how many screenshots need to be taken for documentation, etc :) [02:28] Indeed. The screenshots. [02:28] and ISO testing. [02:29] hmm... I can imagine. I didn't mean it was a bad thing it was showing up - just mentioning it. [02:30] !schedule [02:30] A schedule of Precise Pangolin (12.04) release milestones can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PreciseReleaseSchedule [02:33] Is there a way to increase the grabbable window border size? It's a right pain with my touchpad for some reason. [02:34] KM0201, o/ [02:35] building kernels takes forever [02:43] try building a time machine [02:44] pangolin; I've already got one... [02:44] It's not perfect thou...only lets me fastforward in time, not go back ;-) [02:45] pangolin, i dont want to think about it [02:45] pangolin: are you precise? [02:46] itaylor57: o/ [02:46] ljt, precisely === log is now known as precise === KM0201 is now known as hello === hello is now known as KM0201 [02:51] * precise pangolin [02:51] took you a while to get that out [02:51] I wanted to register it first. :P [02:52] So I needed to get it dropped...etc. [02:53] pangolin: We should both be voiced. :P [02:53] :O [02:54] Now that you have the BIG title, what do you do with it? [02:54] Too much pressure. [02:54] hehe [02:54] waits for the channel to be voice only [02:54] Aw. [02:55] does that even happen any more [02:55] Did that ever happen? [02:55] maybe not here ;) [02:55] Only in cases of extreme abuse... [03:16] Hmm. Unity suddenly got slow after a dist-upgrade. [03:16] On nvidia-current [03:44] hmm.. anyone else noticed that gedit doesn't do crash recovery? [03:44] thats pretty annoying when say.. your x server randomly crashes [03:45] mines been kinda crashy, not too bad, not any worse than normal [03:46] crash at the exit of electric sheep [03:46] when using xss [03:46] oh im playing with xorg-edgers like a naughty boy [03:46] so i deserved it [03:46] the cairo docks a bit screwed up [03:47] but yeah ive been hammering on 12.04 pretty hard lately [03:50] thunar is missing icons [03:51] mkultra_: which icons? [03:52] all of them, in thunar [03:52] hmm, that's weird [03:54] yeah im having problems with cairo dock icons too, clearly im testing tons and tons and tons of stuff [03:54] stress testing 12.04 lol [03:55] oh its gtk3... i lost my system theme to gtk3 also =( [03:57] xubuntu provides a gtk3 theme === precise is now known as frog [03:59] its not black enough for me, even xfce dusk isnt black enough... i like dark background, light text, dark grey highlighting === haz3lnut is now known as haz3lnut_zzz [08:06] Any idea what package to file a bug against if my cpu wont scale to full speed? [08:22] Lotus Notes keeps killing my compiz-decorator/gtk-window-decorator, leaving all my windows borderless. [08:22] That is, makes it crash, not killing directly ;) [08:23] Thinking I'll just put the window-decorator in a loop, hehe [08:23] for now.. [08:24] I thought we could choose if we want the unity launcher on each screen or not? Where can that be set? [08:29] Will Precise support widescreen boot splash screen [08:29] without borders [08:32] anybody here [08:32] maybe [08:33] i have no idea regarding your question though [08:47] When did beta 1 come out? [08:48] 1st Mar looking at date stamp on some of the ISO's on download servers? [08:48] xus, start of the month [08:48] thanks :) [08:50] while true; do gtk-window-decorator; sleep 1; done :-) [08:50] problem "solved"! [09:27] I open software-center, then go to Edit → Software sources, and add a PPA there. But the PPA contents don't show up in software-center. [09:27] How can I instruct software-center to reload its sources? (like apt-get update?) [09:33] do ppa's work that way? [09:35] Ian_Corne: yes, they do, it even fetches the ppa keys, but that's not the problem, it's that the "Sources have changed, reload?" dialog doesn't appear anymore [09:35] http://askubuntu.com/questions/4983/what-are-ppas-and-how-do-i-use-them and specifically this picture: http://i.stack.imgur.com/lEwnS.png [09:37] I guess it's a bug in software-properties-gtk... [09:38] Ah no, software-center uses `software-properties-gtk -n`, instructing it not to update [09:47] aha ok [09:56] Hmm it seems that software-center has an embedded ...timer for how frequently it wants to update its sources, which misbehaves a lot [09:56] I ran apt-get update, still not showing up [09:56] I rebooted, the same [09:56] I waited for 10 minutes or so, then I relaunched it, they showed up fine [09:57] But having to wait for 10 minutes sound more like a bug and less like a design decision... :) [10:11] On another try, running `add-apt-repository ...; apt-get update; software-center` still doesn't avoid the problem, I still have to wait 10 minutes or so for the new sources to show up [10:12] maybe it's taking the info from the wrong place (like a cache) [10:13] Yes I think it has its own cache, but there should be a way to force it to update, at least, since its "sources changed" autodetection doesn't work... [10:16] There seem to be many "questions" about it in launchpad, but not a confirmed bug about it: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+question/184100 [10:24] I need some help debugging logon problem in Precise when using pam_mkhomedir.so [10:25] I reported it as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam/+bug/956848 [10:25] Launchpad bug 956848 in pam (Ubuntu) "pam_mkhomedir.so fails to create homedir in precise" [Undecided,Confirmed] [10:26] but I don't think it's directly related to pam [10:26] I have used oneiric and updated just the pam stack to precise and it still works [10:26] so I think there is something in unity/lightdm or actually Xorg that causes it [10:27] The problem is that the homedir is not created when I login to lightdm/unity [10:29] any ideas how to locate in which package the problem is? [10:33] pressing super to open dash only works once in a while. Is that common? [10:33] it's never been a problem until a week ago or something. Now it's nearly impossible to use the keyboard properly. Highly annoying. [10:34] OK found it, it's reported in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/782953 although closing + reopening isn't enough, update-apt-xapian-index is needed to make software-center aware of the changes in sources [10:34] Launchpad bug 782953 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Software Center doesn't load PPA after adding it and update repositories. Need to close and open again to see the new PPA." [Medium,Triaged] [11:17] Anyone else having troubles with GIMP in latest 12.04 ? libbabl-0.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory [11:26] MCR1: you'll find there will be a libbabl-0.0.so.1 file [11:26] MCR1: the PPA for git was having this problem with 11.10 it depends on a later version of the library, you have to manually change it [11:27] ikonia: How can I do that ? [11:28] MCR1: first look if the library it's looking for exists [11:28] ikonia: I found out with apt-cache policy that I have another PPA installed providing libgegl and libbabl, so I am in the process of removing that PPA [11:29] using PPA's with a development OS....crazy [11:30] ikonia: it really was the PPA - it is working again :) [11:30] not a surprise [11:43] ikonia: thx 4 your help [11:43] you fixed it yourself, so thank yourself === synaptix|TF2 is now known as synaptix|ubuntu [13:03] FATAL: Module ndiswrapper not found on 3.2.0.20 kernel. :( [13:05] ndiswrapper bug? [13:05] kernel 3.2? === Guest26042 is now known as dweez [13:56] oops: https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/Ffct8KMS2wL :-) [13:56] Hi how do I rename the bluetooth device name of my laptop in my amd64 precise installation? There doesn't seem to be any straight, obvious way to it or am I missing something? [14:02] lgp171188, sudo hciconfig hci0 name [14:02] nothing in the ui though [14:02] shame [14:02] brendand: Isn't there a way to do it from the GUI? [14:02] lgp171188, no [14:03] brendand: Iirc, it was there in oneiric. Any ideas as to why it was removed? [14:04] lgp171188, not really [14:05] brendand: Oh it may have been in per Gnome shell ubuntu. [14:06] *pre [14:11] lgp171188, if you mean before we took g-c-c from Gnome3 then yes probably [14:12] lgp171188, this is the 'simplification' of the settings you see ... [14:12] Is there any good update path from 12.04 beta to 12.04 after release? [14:13] Hello guys, do anyone know when that new feature to fix the "mouse pausing between dual screens" will be released? [14:19] how can i know when a new feature will be released? [14:19] JVolt, you'll get the update in your update center. [14:20] I'm using Ubuntu 12.04 daily, but I use dual screens. It's not good to move between screens [14:21] May be a bug with ubuntu or the graphic driver. You may want to file a bug report and there may be a bugfix later [14:21] Idiamond but do you know when that specific feature will be released? I'm updating daily my Ubuntu looking just for that... The system is already stable on my hardware [14:21] the daily builds will not be perfect as they are daily builds of a beta [14:22] It's called a bug fix, not a feature [14:22] I don't know [14:22] check if the bug was reported [14:22] if not you should report it [14:25] I'm talking about the knew pointer-edge hold behaviour when passing between screens. I've heard that will be toggleable, but don't know when.. It's what I'm looking for, when it will be released... [14:28] running Compiz? [14:28] I'm running default installation [14:32] ps -A | grep compiz [14:32] ps -A | grep metacity [14:32] 2131 ? 00:04:22 compiz [14:32] you're running compiz then [14:33] metacity is not running [14:33] sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager [14:33] then it's gonna be in the app menu [14:33] is there some way to disable that using csm? [14:33] ok, got that [14:33] look around you might find something [14:33] ahm [14:34] ok [14:34] thanks =] === synaptix|ubuntu is now known as synaptix|mint === synaptix|mint is now known as synaptix|ubuntu === synaptix|ubuntu is now known as synaptix|windows [15:48] hi, I have trouble with grub after rebooting. Apparently the partitions cannot be found [15:48] the commandline is of no help [15:48] can't load the partitions === synaptix|windows is now known as synaptix|ubuntu [15:49] it appeared after a series of ubdates [15:51] don't have internet on the 12.04 machine right now, is it known what packages are broken? I could up/downgrade manually === pangolin changed the topic of #ubuntu+1 to: Discussion and support for Precise Pangolin | Release schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Oneiric Support in #ubuntu | Beta 1 Released! http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/precise/beta1 | Known issues: apparmor (LP: #945019) Fix Released [16:34] How do I get the bookmark button to show up on Firefox ?? When I click on the "customize" button, it appears, but it disappears again when I close that box [16:42] User47; so it seems [16:49] What were your problems exactly User47 ? [16:52] MrChrisDruif: when i want to update , a message tell me that i have to do a partial upgrade to install updates [16:52] and when i try to upgrade [16:52] i receive this "not possible to detect which version of Ubuntu you are running." [16:54] also probleme whith virtualbox , nvidia driver , screen brithnesse (i fixed this last one) ^^ [17:00] I always have problems with proprietary driver [17:00] * MrChrisDruif was on the phone [17:00] That is an awkward error, unable to detect which version you are running [17:03] User47; What do you get with "lsb_release -a" in terminal? [17:04] On the description line? [17:04] what is the keyboard shortcut to openthe dash [17:04] smw; [17:04] I think [17:05] hi, which java version is to be installed? I see the openjdk6 is "supported" with the ubuntu logo, while openjdk is not [17:06] MrChrisDruif: i get "No LSB modules are available" with the version ofcourse [17:06] in description line : Ubuntu precise (development branch) [17:06] I also get that message, at least on my 11.10 install [17:08] So uname at least knows what version you have [17:08] smw; did it work? [17:09] MrChrisDruif: the upgrade ? [17:09] MrChrisDruif, yeah, super does the doc, not the dash [17:09] MrChrisDruif, (dash home I mean) [17:10] MrChrisDruif, turns out alt+f2 does that, but I am trying to figure out how to change it to super space [17:10] uname is a system tool, but I don't know what update-manager uses [17:11] smw; you mean the run-command tool? Not the dash [17:11] MrChrisDruif, it is called "dash home" [17:11] lsb_release -a [17:12] mvo; yeah, lsb_release I meant, not uname [17:13] smw; go to System Settings > Keyboard, in there you can change keyboard shortcuts [17:13] yeah, that is what u-m is using [17:13] Hmm, awkward that User47 gets that error, don't you agree mvo ? [17:14] MrChrisDruif, I found it in ccsm [17:14] In ccsm? O_O [17:14] MrChrisDruif, yep [17:15] MrChrisDruif, that felt very wrong to me too [17:17] MrChrisDruif, and now it is time to check out gnome-classic :-) [17:17] Ghehe, I'll just stick to gnome-shell [17:20] smw: use this in a terminal to gnome classic "sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback" [17:21] but it's not really the same as in ubuntu 10.04 [17:21] I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 Beta, I want to Install Cinnamon: So I added the following PPA: "ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable", the problem is, that I do "apt-get update", and then when I do "apt-get install cinnamon", it can't find the package... any ideas ? [17:21] dysoco|laptop: that ppa only has builds for oneiric [17:21] User47, I installed gnome-pannel [17:22] panel* [17:22] trism, then there's another PPA ? I read that it also works with 12.04 [17:22] dysoco|laptop: I have never used it, so I do not know [17:22] User47, what is now the same? [17:23] User47, besides two purely theme things I see when I start it [17:23] dysoco|laptop, that PPA doesn't have any packages for precise. That's why it can't find the packages. [17:23] just installed server amd64 - looks good [17:23] Daekdroom, OK then, thanks [17:23] User47, what is wrong with it? [17:24] smw: fake somehow [17:24] Daekdroom, check this: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/02/alternative-cinnamon-ppa-for-ubuntu.html [17:24] wth, I can't right click on the panels [17:24] it says it has packages for 12.04 :/ [17:25] dysoco|laptop, it used to. But check the page: https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable [17:25] You could try changing the source list for 'oneiric' instead of precise. [17:25] User47, fake how? [17:25] The packages may or may not be compatible with precise. You could take the chance. [17:26] MrChrisDruif: well, its probably run without the "-a", no? by default it prints just the installed lsb-modules, not the version information [17:26] User47, I want specific reasons you dislike it. All I saw was cosmetic changes... but then I could not right click on the panel [17:27] grr... they destroyed the time applet [17:27] smw: it's not really the same gnome as in 10.04 simely , install to try :) , u'll have the choice always to run Unitu or gnome [17:27] User47, I know it isn't. The question is what do you dislike about it. [17:27] User47, what changed? [17:28] I have named two so far [17:28] dysoco|laptop: u have this message ? 'configure: error: SDL/SDL.h header file not found' [17:30] User47, ok, now I am unhappy with it :-P [17:30] User47, nope [17:30] smw: lol , u have to try anyway [17:30] may be u will like it [17:30] User47, just "Package 'cinnamon' has no installation candidate" [17:31] meh, I was going to switch my laptop to LMDE anyways [17:31] User47, the question is: is it worth losing these small features for up to date apps [17:32] i don't think so smw [17:32] i'll be back [17:32] are you also still on 11.04? [17:33] smw: no i'm in 12.04 [17:33] User47, on your main machine? [17:33] smw: yes [17:33] I am testing it on a netbook that still had the netbook release before unity [17:33] I decided that needed to be updated :-P [17:34] User47, so you think that it is not worth giving up these small features for the latest software? [17:34] yet you use 12.04... [17:34] smw: i'm using it on my laptop as secondary system , just for test [17:35] on my own machine i'm using 11.10 [17:36] User47, ok [17:40] I am laughing so hard [17:40] at Zeitgeist [17:40] Is it possible to turn on automatic login with lock? [17:40] Are engineers always this disconnected from reality? [17:40] "Hey I know, let's give users who can barely get useful results out of Google some sort of database that they can define technical queries into to return all kinds of information about their documents and help them stay organized!" [17:40] Let's teach them SQL too. [17:42] Well, we all know how it'll go. It's not like it hasn't happened before. [17:42] It'll get "Simplified" until it's still too ineffective for non-thinking mortals who have better things to do (like grow food so you don't starve), but crippled enough to be completely useless to savvy power-users [17:50] Zeitgeist ? [17:51] dysoco: a new addition to Gnome/ubuntu that keeps a database of everything you do, and lets you set up queries to search it as feeds [17:51] Bluefoxicy, Oh I see [17:51] I remember a question about it in AskUbuntu [17:52] I remember that Google Desktop is the farthest you're going to get for end users [17:52] You have to remember you have three kinds of computer users [17:52] can i get some help ranning virtualbox ? [17:52] A) People who drool all over themselves and are too stupid to live [17:52] B) People who can't use a computer at all, but can handle quantum physics or some other ridiculously complex thing you can't approach [17:52] C) Computer experts [17:53] Most of your users are in category (A) and (B) [17:53] (B) becomes an interesting group when you realize most people in (C) can't cook well enough to feed themselves :| [17:55] (in other words, basic computer use isn't a basic skill; EATING is a basic skill) [17:55] Bluefoxicy, I think you may have wandered away from your original Zeitgeist observation a tad. :D [17:55]