[00:38] <micahg> ScottL: astraljava: I hope I got everything in for you
[00:40] <ScottL> micahg, i hope you did too :)
[02:12] <ScottL> astraljava, micahg:  thank you two for getting the ubuntustudio-audio bugs cleaned up, that is awesome :)
[02:26] <len-nb> Did anyone else try an install today?
[02:26] <len-nb> (on todays ISO)
[03:34] <ScottL> len-nb, i did not, i'm waiting for tomorrow's image since micahg uploaded a bunch this afternoon
[03:35] <len-nb> I hope the base stuff is fixed by then.
[03:36] <len-nb> did we do anything that may have removed busybox?
[03:38] <ScottL> len-nb, the problem with busybox might have several causes
[03:38] <ScottL> someone might have uploaded a "fix" to it which caused it to be borked
[03:38] <ScottL> or there could have been a component mismatch which caused it to fail to build
[03:39] <ScottL> or a timing issue where it "couldn't" be installed per a mismatch
[03:39] <ScottL> all kinds of stuff
[03:39] <ScottL> if we see a problem tomorrow with it then we probably need to start looking at it
[03:43] <len-nb> ok g'night
[06:32] <astraljava> micahg: I'll have a look later tonight, I'm going to have a job interview soon so I needed to actually *gasp* sleep a little and now getting ready. :)
[06:32]  * micahg wonders what this sleep is you speak of
[06:33] <astraljava> micahg: It's a one-time-thing-every-three-months sort of reoccuring maintenance-like action some people pay more attention, I dunno.
[06:33] <astraljava> I never really got a hang of it. :9
[11:48] <scott-work> #925257
[11:48] <scott-work> bug #925257
[12:19] <ailo> scott-work: I added a comment
[12:20] <scott-work> ailo: to 925257?
[12:20] <scott-work> i was using the bot to help me fill out the weekly release-team email i send :P
[12:21] <ailo> scott-work: Yes
[12:21] <ailo> len should take a look at that. Don't think there's a bug
[12:22] <scott-work> i was worried about that
[12:23] <scott-work> i was feeling that it didn't work as some expected rather than fully understanding what was happening
[12:23] <scott-work> of course, i still dont' fully understand what is happening, at this point :P
[12:24] <scott-work> but now that many things are done (or wrapping up) i do hope to explore this more unless someone else dives in and susses it out and tells us
[12:24] <ailo> Not easy to figure that one out, I think. The bridge works really well. I've had 7 xruns in more than 12h with a low latency setting, but to set it up is a little too manual still for someone who is new to it. Needs documentation
[12:26] <ailo> scott-work: It's not that complicated really. Think of every sound device as a module.
[12:26] <scott-work> david h. (who is employed by canonical to work on sound and drivers, methinks) seemed verify confident that it should work, seemed to have tested it quite a bit, also seemed very knowledgeable about jack and pulse, and practically seemed shocked that we weren't using the pulseaudio-module-jack (or pulseaduio-jack-module)
[12:28] <ailo> Well, I shouldn't explain it like that..
[12:28] <ailo> scott-work: It does seem to work really well. But, shutting down jack is still the achilles heel in the whole setup
[12:33] <ailo> scott-work: The word pulseaudio/jack-bridge may be a little confusing, cause the way PA interfaces with jack is more or less the same way all apps and sound devices interface with jack
[12:34] <ailo> scott-work: pulseaudio-module-jack makes PA show in jack, and jack show in PA. So, how do you make a program use jack?
[12:34] <ailo> You choose jack in the programs audio settings
[12:34] <ailo> That's what you do with PA as well
[12:35] <ailo> It might be nice to have a toggle in PA settings that says something like "auto-connect to jack"
[12:36] <ailo> Cause it doesn't autoconnect. You need to do that manually
[12:38] <ailo> That might be the only thing missing actually
[12:41] <ailo> btw, all the xruns were cause by opening and closing an app, so they don't count. I've had 0 xruns for more than 12h
[12:52] <scott-work> ailo: that's pretty amazing (0 xruns for 12 hours +)
[12:52] <scott-work> i think we really have something to be proud about in this release
[12:53] <scott-work> now i need to switch directions and start doing some PR where ever i can think to promote it :)
[12:53] <scott-work> (after a few more tests)
[12:54] <scott-work> also, we did really good this cycle in terms of coordinated development in contrast with other teams: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/#Flavor
[12:54] <scott-work> xubuntu beat us (go knome!)
[12:55] <scott-work> but i think kubuntu has some leadership (or possible development) issues with scottk doing more canonical/ubuntu type work this cycle
[12:55] <scott-work> and lubuntu is probably a very, very small team (is my guess)
[13:15] <knome> scott-work, to make it look even a bit better for us, 8 of those not finished issues are charlie's items (he hasn't tracked these at all afaik) and three items are mine, which are related to website and will be executed before release. so without charlie, we'd hit 100% ;)
[13:17] <scott-work> wow
[13:17] <scott-work> so is charlie not doing the items or just choosing not to update the status?
[13:20] <knome> i think he is not updating the status
[13:20] <knome> all his items are non-xubuntu anyway
[13:21] <knome> so we will hit 100% on the xubuntu blueprints anyway
[13:21] <knome> though, that includes about 15 postponed items
[13:21] <knome> (those count towards the max)
[13:22] <scott-work> we had a few postponed too, i don't remember the exact number, but i'm sure it is around 15 as well
[13:22] <knome> yup
[13:23] <knome> anyway, if everything is DONE or POSTPONED, it's 100% :)
[13:23] <scott-work> ailo: did you think mor about what we should be doing during next cycle?  any suggestions would be welcomed
[13:23] <scott-work> knome: i will be wrapping up one or two very trivial items and then giving the website my main focus, i hope to knock it out in a week then
[13:24] <scott-work> knome: we (the studio team) need to have a discussion about where user help (or tutorial) documentation will be located
[13:24] <scott-work> but that isn't important right now i believe, should we be, knome?
[13:25] <scott-work> i.e. if we are using the website for all user documentation (vs. help.ubuntu.com), do we need to have it started or a "hook" or "stub" page in the website before going live?
[13:25] <scott-work>   
[13:25] <scott-work> and knome, any suggestions you or anyone from the xubuntu-dev team would be welcome in terms of where ubuntu studio should focus in q-cycle
[13:29] <knome> scott-work, it's easy adding content to the website
[13:30] <knome> scott-work, even if the Q cycle is non-LTS, i think you should take some time to focus on polishing and finalizing the xfce migration
[13:30] <knome> scott-work, and not try to do anything spectacular, unless it just drops in place or is really important
[13:31] <knome> scott-work, you've probably noticed how much the xubuntu team puts work in to artwork and really little things, and i think that is something that really pays off in the long run
[13:32] <knome> scott-work, but i'm not saying it is just artwork that can do with the polishing... :)
[13:32] <scott-work> knome: i agree with those statements
[13:33] <knome> scott-work, for us, it's the time to see how the community works, and how it could work better, and hopefully, how it can grow
[13:33] <knome> scott-work, for one, i'm going to make a changes in the strategy document, including a review to our goal
[13:33] <scott-work> knome: i am very interested in evaluating the user experience from finding the ISO through using the applications to see where we can provide better supports and improvements
[13:34] <knome> scott-work, an important thing that i'm pushing is to change for what time the project lead is elected.
[13:34] <knome> scott-work, i think it makes most sense that a new project lead (or the new season) starts with the release just after LTS, and ends with an LTS
[13:34] <knome> scott-work, that allows long-time planning
[13:35] <knome> scott-work, now my term *started* with an LTS, which meant i needed to be careful with things
[13:35] <knome> scott-work, and it's ending with just a normal release too, so kind of no magic can be done, until the future PL completely agrees with me on important decisions, or it is me again.
[13:36] <knome> scott-work, that is why charlie probably should have continued for the LTS as the project lead
[13:36] <scott-work> hehe, i'll be honest, i'm not sure how i feel about the possibility of another lead for ubuntu studio currently :P
[13:36] <scott-work> i have a pretty strong vision and i would like to see it completed (or mostly completed)
[13:37] <knome> i understand. i totally hope that i can work as the PL until the next LTS
[13:37] <scott-work> but i certainly wouldn't mind (perhaps enjoy) stepping down after that though
[13:37] <scott-work> knome: i think there are very good arguments for that model
[13:37] <knome> after the next LTS, i think it *is* time for me to step down, and let somebody else work on their vision
[13:37] <knome> all that comes with the PL chair isn't easy, or relaxed
[13:38] <knome> most of it is actually a bit stressful
[13:38] <scott-work> i don't know if we will get a strategy document in the sense that you (xubuntu) have it, but i believe we need to develop a proper mission statement
[13:38] <scott-work> knome: aye, it is :/
[13:38] <scott-work> but i like the organizational aspect of it
[13:38] <knome> well, i hope to make our strategy document WAY shorter
[13:38] <scott-work> i find myself drawn more to getting the system setup properly rather than actually using it to create :P
[13:38] <knome> it is too superfluous, just explaining all the bureaucracy, but not giving much "tools" for the community
[13:39] <scott-work> mmmmm
[13:39] <ailo> scott-work: I don't have a clear list of things. I'm in the process of putting up a strategy for myself right now. I need to do quite a bit of studying for the next couple of months, but I will have some time over to do this and that, like study kernel maintenance. 
[13:40] <ailo> scott-work: My personal goal with involvment has always been to help assure that audio operation is easy and qualitative
[13:41] <ailo> I have ideas outside of that too, of course, but I usually get involved in everything I touch, and that's not good for me
[13:42] <ailo> scott-work: One big issue for next release could be to assure that jack + PA is stable and automatic. To achieve that, we need to work together with the coders of each app
[13:44] <len_> ailo, a bit off topic, but the PA-jackd stuff is better than it has been. It is much more solid and some of the problems may not have been the bridging, but other things.
[13:44] <ailo> If we are able to get changes into all related software within a couple of months, those should be ready for testing in good time before next beta
[13:45] <ailo> len_: Current problems are: 1. qjackctl is not able to shut down jackdmp properly 2. PA does not have a "autoconnect to jack" option/function
[13:45] <ailo> The first item is very bad
[13:46] <len_> It would be nice in PA to be able to set jackd as default even when jackd is not running. And have a backup default for when it is not there.
[13:46] <len_> I agree.
[13:47] <len_> I have seen qjackctl say I can't shut it down when the logs say it is shut down.
[13:47] <holstein> does it help at all to be alsa only?
[13:47] <len_> if I restart qjackctl it then works
[13:47] <holstein> are these options more easily "fixable" that way?
[13:48] <ailo> holstein: jack + PA is close to perfect right now. I don't think going back to alsa only is a good step anymore. It might have been two years ago, when PA was still unstable
[13:48] <holstein> i feel like its a step back, and its a step away from the usual or whatever
[13:48] <ailo> PA + jack works perfectly. The only real problem right now is with jackdmp
[13:49] <holstein> but, we had talked about alsa only, and i believe that was just a few months ago
[13:49] <holstein> i was just spitballing
[13:49] <len_> PA is used by too many things... but for the most part when you are using those things you don't need jack either.
[13:50] <len_> If someone wants to record a phonecall (skype or whatever, then PA-jack makes sense.
[13:51] <holstein> well, i feel JACK is overkill for most folks
[13:51] <ailo> holstein: PA + jack is pretty awesome right now. I've been running it without xruns for more than 12h now, with -p 64
[13:51] <holstein> ailo: sweet!
[13:51] <ailo> The only problem is with jack, not PA
[13:51] <ailo> qjackctl is not able to shut down jackdmp properly
[13:52] <holstein> that might be better
[13:52] <holstein> easier to get some co-operation on i mean
[13:52] <ailo> All though, it would be nice if PA had a autoconnect option, so one didn't need to connect it manually to jack each time
[13:57] <ailo> Since Ubuntustudio is a multimedia distro, and not only an audio distro, I guess there's little point in making jack the default sound server, even if it would be cool to be able to have that as an option
[13:58] <ailo> But, then we need a -controls application, like the on falktx was making
[13:58] <holstein> yeah, i agree
[13:58] <holstein> even some audio folk dont need JACK
[13:58] <holstein> the casual podcaster or whatever
[13:59] <holstein> i see that in the support channel a lot
[13:59] <holstein> folks struggling with JACK to do something that JACK is not really meant for
[13:59] <ailo> holstein: What I mean with the "autoconnect" option was that you would be able to set a toggle in PA settings to let PA autoconnect to jack each time you start jack.
[13:59] <holstein> yeah
[13:59] <holstein> ailo: and i dont see any harm as long as its not breaking something else
[14:00] <holstein> its a matter of implementaion though
[14:00] <holstein> upstream would be ideal
[14:00] <ailo> Yeah, it neads to be done upstream
[14:01] <ailo> We should do that more. Think about what's wrong, and talk to the coders directly. Supply bug reports, and discuss what we would like their software to have
[14:01] <holstein> yup
[14:01] <holstein> especially little things like this that might be easy, and could really slick things up for everyone downstream
[14:02] <ailo> Absolutely
[14:03] <ailo> jack is going through some changes right now. Not sure exactly what the plan is. I guess they're going to write a jack3 type of app, to combine jack1 and jack2, but also start from scratch
[14:03] <ailo> If I've understood correctly
[14:03] <ailo> Might be good to be in touch with what's going on there
[14:03] <holstein> that could be nice
[14:03] <holstein> could be terrifying ;)
[14:03] <ailo> But, I don't think things will change by next release
[14:07] <scott-work> ailo, holstein: the process you are describing "think about what is wrong, talk to the coders, file bug reports" - this is what have been thinking about for the upcoming cycles
[14:07] <scott-work> i'd like to take a step back and think solely from the user's perspective and abstractly think about what would make it easier for the user
[14:07] <scott-work> the "autoconnect to jack" toggle in pulse audio is a good example
[14:08] <scott-work> and then push these "wish list" items upstream
[14:08] <scott-work> this will probably be a two cycle process though
[14:08] <scott-work> but that is okay, it will probably mean great improvements for ubuntu studio and the users
[14:08] <holstein> well, ideally, for debian and all downstream projects
[14:08] <ailo> scott-work: Not sure if it really requires two cycles. If we begin now, changes should be able to reach Debian testing shortly
[14:10] <scott-work> another example, i've thought about a "record audio" button that maybe start jack (if not already started), shuts off network manager, and some other things
[14:10] <scott-work> this may not be an upstream thing, but we could perhaps start it
[14:10] <scott-work> oh, i explained that poorly
[14:10] <ailo> scott-work: Are there any problems with that anymore? I don't think so..
[14:10] <holstein> yeah, but im not sure thats needed
[14:11] <holstein> i mean, if you think about how many different ways folks use this stuff
[14:11] <holstein> and how many would acutally need/want that button
[14:11] <holstein> could be handy for the new user for sure though
[14:11] <scott-work> think less about the specifics and more about the idea
[14:11] <scott-work> a toggle in the top panel that starts "record audio mode"
[14:11] <scott-work> maybe it shuts off unwanted process
[14:11] <scott-work> maybe it changes the menu
[14:12] <ailo> Only thing that comes to mind is the cpu governor mode. But I have yet to test if that really makes any difference at all
[14:12] <scott-work> maybe it starts a side panel or replaces an existing panel with new icons
[14:12] <scott-work> it's just an idea, i'm not sure we need it
[14:12] <scott-work> but it might be a good idea or it might even spark someone else to think of something that will be an improvement
[14:13] <ailo> scott-work: Sounds like something for a -controls application
[14:13] <scott-work> ailo: could be, could be :)
[14:13] <holstein> could be the thing we contribute upstream too
[14:13] <scott-work> what are the different screens called, desktops or whatever?
[14:14] <ailo> I'm thinking about starting to code one this summer, but it will likely not be finished in time for next release. Also, I would push it to Debian
[14:14] <ailo> I have some new ideas for it too
[14:14] <scott-work> we have an applet in our top panel for switching between....?
[14:14] <holstein> i think im going to have to give up on coding
[14:14] <holstein> i got busy playing again, and i would really need to take a class i think
[14:15] <ailo> scott-work: It would be good to have an indicator applet, just like the volume control, but an extended one.
[14:15] <ailo> Simple exterior, with many sublevels. Simple level -> medium -> advanced
[14:16] <ailo> All in one, sort of app. Plugins to control different sound servers and even applications.
[14:17] <ailo> One thing that users need is information. Information about their hardware
[14:17] <ailo> What their sound device is capable of, for example
[14:18] <ailo> It's a big project. I need to think about it. Perhaps ask others if they would be interested in doing that too
[14:19] <ailo> Then there's the panel
[14:19] <holstein> might not be possible
[14:19] <ailo> not possible?
[14:19] <holstein> since the vendors are somewhat responsible for that
[14:19] <holstein> for allowing that information to be accessed or whatever
[14:19] <holstein> or known
[14:19] <ailo> It's just about gathering a database of info for every known device
[14:20] <ailo> Have a function that reads what device you have plugged in, and output info about it
[14:20] <holstein> sure... if thats possible
[14:20] <scott-work> ailo: good ideas
[14:21] <ailo> It's not hard to do. It's just a bit of work gathering info on a big list of devices
[14:21] <scott-work> to help that out we might even be able to push an API to other projects what would help this
[14:21] <holstein> well, theres the alsa site, and the ffado pages
[14:21] <holstein> might be nice to pick a place like that and just help maintain
[14:22] <holstein> so we arent duplicating efforts, and we are again helping upstream
[14:22] <holstein> what i dont want is another giant wiki page or 7 that are just a drag to keep up with
[14:23] <ailo> This app would be in Debian. Not meant to be Ubuntustudio specific. Just a sort of all-in-one app.
[14:23] <holstein> i like it
[15:02] <scott-work> astraljava: you are representing xubuntu in the release meeting?  super cool :)
[15:03] <astraljava> scott-work: Yep. :) I'm glad, too.
[15:14] <scott-work> astraljava: have you particapated or lurked before?
[15:14] <scott-work> sadly, the studio stuff isn't discussed for almost an hour
[15:14] <scott-work> today might even be longer
[15:15] <astraljava> scott-work: I've lurked before. This is just tricky now, my laptop's battery is about to go out, and I'm on a bus without a possibity to charge it. :-/
[15:16] <scott-work> oooh, that will be interesting, you might want to shut off for thirty or forty-five minutes then
[15:16] <scott-work> or ask to go early?
[15:17] <astraljava> Yeah, can you back me up if I won't respond in time? I asked on #xubuntu-devel, but the guys aren't responding.
[15:18] <astraljava> scott-work: Just tell skaet about the laptop problem. I'll check back in about 25 minutes or so.
[15:19] <scott-work> sure :)
[15:19] <astraljava> Thanks!
[15:19] <astraljava> See ya soon.
[15:44] <scott-work> astraljava: are you back?
[15:50] <astraljava> I am now, and saw the question re: FFes. Thanks for covering!
[15:53] <scott-work> i didn't really cover very well to be honest :P
[15:54] <scott-work> very irregular meeting
[15:54] <scott-work> we didn't go team-by-team reports, but that is okay with me
[15:59] <astraljava> Yeah, Kate said they've changed the format of the meeting, so no regular going-through of the teams/flavors.
[15:59] <astraljava> But anyway, thanks a lot for informing the #xubuntu-devel channel!
[16:00] <scott-work> i hope this makes the usual meeting much shorter
[16:00] <astraljava> It seems to, considerably. It ran well over an hour previously, didn't it?
[16:00] <scott-work> at the beginning of the cycle they discussed changing format of the meeting in an attempt to reduce the duration from the usual 1 hour
[16:00] <astraljava> Right.
[16:01] <scott-work> but i think the usual meeting duration this cycle has been still been at 1 hour (or more)
[16:01] <scott-work> so i'm definitely okay with a change of format :-D
[16:02] <astraljava> +1 :)
[16:02] <astraljava> Ok, I'm getting off the bus soon. Back in about half an hour.
[18:30] <astraljava> scott-work: Now, how about them meetings? Our latest decision didn't last very long. Was it too ambitious? Should we relax it a bit?
[18:31] <astraljava> Or is there any real need for strict scheduled meetings at all?
[18:32] <scott-work> astraljava: i think we should start meetings again
[18:34] <astraljava> Ok. I agree. With what sort of schedule?
[18:34] <knome> this is just a brainfart, but i was wondering how much sense shared meetings would make
[18:35] <knome> the developer teams are overlapping quite a bit currently...
[18:35] <scott-work> knome: that's not a bad idea 
[18:35] <knome> and, we would have more people to chair the meeting, if needed
[18:37] <scott-work> knome: how often do you have meetings?  weekly, every other week?
[18:37] <scott-work> i'm thinking that maybe we have "studio" specific meetings as needed between the combined meeting
[18:37] <scott-work> perhaps
[18:39] <knome> scott-work, just "sometimes"
[19:00] <astraljava> Joined meetings at least semi-regularly might be a good idea.
[19:01] <astraljava> Don't know what a few Xubuntu devs think about it, though. mr_pouit and madnick come to mind immediately, they don't participate in Studio dev at all.
[19:09] <astraljava> Perhaps it could be discussed in the next one?
[19:17] <astraljava> Alright, testers! We have new Beta-2 image candidates!
[19:17] <astraljava> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/210/builds/14055/testcases and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/210/builds/14056/testcases
[19:18] <astraljava> damn
[19:19] <scott-work> lol!
[19:20] <scott-work> i'll fix the topic this afternoon, i need to get something done at work first, probably take 1.5 hours
[19:23] <astraljava> scott-work: I think that works for now, don't you think?
[19:24] <scott-work> astraljava: weee!  i like it
[19:24] <scott-work> especially the tiny.url 's  :)
[19:24] <scott-work> that makes it so much leaner
[19:24] <astraljava> Yeah, it gets long enough already.
[19:24] <scott-work> astraljava: do you remember the channel for the irc council thingie that jussi mentioned?
[19:25] <astraljava> scott-work: No, but I can find out, hold on.
[19:27] <scott-work> knome: did anyone notice scrollbars on the xubuntu ubiquity slideshow?
[19:28] <astraljava> scott-work: #ubuntu-irc-council
[19:28] <scott-work> astraljava: thanks
[19:28] <astraljava> scott-work: Yes, we did. It's a weird thingie, for me, qemu-kvm showed them, vbox didn't.
[19:29] <len_> scott-work, The scroll bars seem to come and go, I tried to take a screen shot of them, but by the time I had the screen shot app open they had gone.
[19:29] <astraljava> len_: Oh yeah, but that was on real hw, right?
[19:29] <len_> On hardware yes
[19:30] <len_> I did post screen shots a day or two ago. I installed three times looking for them.
[19:30] <len_> Two out of three I didn't seem to get any
[19:31] <astraljava> I don't have access to real hw for testing for several days now, so can't help with that currently.
[19:31] <len_> I use a USB drive for my testing... saves mucking up things.
[19:32] <astraljava> Yeah, I lost mine a couple months back.
[19:33] <len_> The ISO in daily is that beta two?
[19:33] <astraljava> Candidate, yes.
[19:34] <len_> DL now...
[19:34] <astraljava> Schweet!
[19:34] <len_> Is there a place to put test reports? or just use bug reports?
[19:34] <astraljava> len_: Check the links at the /topic.
[19:36] <len_> OK, I can do the second one...
[19:36] <astraljava> Nice, thanks! I'll rotate the other one in kvm.
[19:44] <scott-work> astraljava: if you want irc privs please apply:  https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntustudio-ops/+members
[19:44] <scott-work> and join us in #ubuntu-irc
[19:47] <astraljava> scott-work: I don't see where to apply on that page.
[19:48] <scott-work> i clicked on the small breadcrumb trail
[19:48] <scott-work> astraljava: here it is:  https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntustudio-ops
[19:48] <len_> scott-work, re bug 962585, Colin Watson writes "Secondly, I think it's an oversight that the standard
[19:48] <len_> task (which contains busybox) isn't present on Ubuntu Studio images.Secondly, I think it's an oversight that the standard
[19:48] <len_> task (which contains busybox) isn't present on Ubuntu Studio images."
[19:49] <len_> Opps sorry for the repeat...
[19:49] <scott-work> huh, that's weird, i wouldn't think we need to specify busybox explicitly (if that is what is being said)
[19:49] <scott-work> but i'm glad it's fixed
[19:49] <astraljava> Ahh... yes, sorry I didn't look closely enough.
[19:50] <len_> I think that is the same package that should have things like nano in it.
[19:51] <len_> I think we put it on the missing packages wiki page.
[19:52] <micahg> it's in the standard task which I think cjwatson added to the US images this morning
[19:52] <micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/livecd-rootfs/2.64
[19:53] <len_> Good.
[20:00] <astraljava> Soo... if it was missing, then why didn't it prevent the installation before?
[20:13] <len_> Could be a real version of tail existed before.
[20:21] <astraljava> len_: tail? What were you actually doing when it occurred?
[20:21] <len_> ubbiquity uses tail for loggin.
[20:22] <len_> s/loggin/logging/
[20:22] <kubotu> len_ meant: "ubbiquity uses tail for logging."
[20:23] <len_> I tried three times... two of them with nothing else running on two different machines
[20:24] <astraljava> len_: But did you click on install in a live session, or what?
[20:24] <len_> Yup.
[20:26] <astraljava> I wonder why installing straight from the menu worked without the standard task, then.
[20:27] <astraljava> But oh well, it's fixed now, and that's what matters.
[20:30] <len_> We'll see, printing ISO to USB stick now...
[20:43] <scott-work> thinking about it, i'm guessing busybox is necessary for the liveFS?
[20:44] <scott-work> astraljava: i thought i had installed both methods before
[20:44] <scott-work> i will certainly do both methods this tonight/tomorrow to make sure it works on all cases
[20:47] <astraljava> Yeah I dunno. It's strange, but who am I to argue. :)
[20:48] <len-live> What happened? The graphic before the session that used to have the spinning studio thing is replaced by the purple stock ubuntu one...
[20:49] <astraljava> Hmm... that's not good.
[20:50] <astraljava> Does that have to do with plymouth? I'll have to investigate.
[20:51] <len-live> I think the menu file in /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntustudio/menus actually has to be called applications.menu at least it is not being used.
[20:52] <len-live> We have a stock menu.
[20:58] <len-live> scott-work, either the menu file has to be call xfce-applications.menu or that name needs to be a link to whatever you do use.
[20:58] <len-live> I just put a link in and it works.
[21:09] <len-live> scott-work, menu looks good, panel looks good, back drop looks good. We have RT priv.
[21:14] <len-live> Ran into the qjackctl can't stop jackdbus.  It is confusing to the user because it looked like it had stopped. When I tried to restart, that failed "Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
[21:14] <len-live> Cannot connect to server socket
[21:14] <len-live> jack server is not running or cannot be started
[21:14] <len-live> Fri Mar 23 21:10:21 2012: Saving settings to "/home/ubuntu-studio/.config/jack/conf.xml" ...
[21:14] <len-live> 21:10:27.049 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info.
[21:14] <len-live> Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
[21:14] <len-live> Cannot connect to server socket
[21:14] <len-live> jack server is not running or cannot be started"
[21:21] <scott-work> len-live: okay, i wondered about that part (re: applications.menu)
[21:22] <len-live> PA-jack works.
[21:22] <len-live> actually it has to have the xfce in front.
[21:22] <scott-work> len-live: can you file a bug for it please?  that way we can add it to the qa test plus give us something to ask for the FFe or whatever will be required to fix it
[21:22] <scott-work> len-live: oh, so i can call it 'xfce-ubuntustudio.menu' ?
[21:23] <len-live> I'm just figuring that out.
[21:23] <len-live> I haven't tried that
[21:23] <len-live> ls
[21:23] <scott-work> i don't mind going back to 'xfce-applications', especially since this is in our own 'xdg-ubuntustudio' direcotyr and shouldn't confuse anyone
[21:24] <scott-work> len-live: are you testing 32bit by isntalling it both through the first menu (i.e. not the liveFS) and also from the liveFS?
[21:24] <scott-work> if so, that will reduce 1/2 of my testing tonight and tomorrow :P
[21:24] <len-live> It has to be xfce-applications.menu.
[21:24] <scott-work> len-live: ack'd
[21:25] <len-live> I haven't done any install... I was going to do an install on two machines so I will do one each way
[21:25] <scott-work> len-live: for 32bit, correct?
[21:25] <len-live> The menu bug can go on either the live or install or both...
[21:26] <len-live> All my machines are cheap... 32bit
[21:26] <len-live> I have to run  and get kids.
[21:26] <len-live>  C u in a bit.
[21:26] <scott-work> menu bug should be against ubuntustudio-default-settings
[21:26] <scott-work> thanks :)
[21:47] <astraljava> I'm stumped on the plymouth issue. I'll have to sync the images, which takes like forever over this mobile data link. I'll get back to it a little later once the .iso is up-to-date.
[21:47] <scott-work> astraljava: what plymouth issue?
[21:48]  * scott-work is now starting to get nervous
[21:49] <astraljava> scott-work: Len said there's now the vanilla logo before the session is loaded, which I understand to mean the plymouth theme thingie.
[21:49] <scott-work> astraljava: hmmmm, that is surprising
[21:49] <astraljava> But I didn't find any changes from the sources that could explain it.
[21:49] <scott-work> i am leaving work soon and i will start syncing the image as soon as i am home
[21:49] <len-live> I wonder if it is part of what C Watson added.
[21:49] <astraljava> Ok.
[21:50] <scott-work> len-live: did you see that i said the bug for the menu should be filed against ubuntustudio-default-settings?  that is the package in which the change is needed
[21:51] <len-live> Yup. Just working on that now.
[21:52] <len-live> Bug #963498 
[21:52] <scott-work> len-live: i'll make that change tonight and push it back tonight
[21:53] <scott-work> my tests previously were to install an updated -settings-package onto an existing install, which already had the xfce-*.menu on it
[21:53] <len-live> Happens...
[21:54] <scott-work> okay, i'm leaving for home, see you in a bit, but not for long, ten year old daughter is doing a dance at the school tonight, wife and i are going to see it and then probably go out to eat
[21:57] <len-live> OK, now to install...
[22:02] <len-live> scrollbars for about 5 seconds... then vanished (in the slideshow.
[22:06] <len-live> yes this means the bug from yesterday is gone.
[22:42] <len-live> install successful... it says. reboot time.
[22:52] <len-1204> Install is faithful to the live DVD session.
[22:55] <ailo> nice