[04:38] <bazhang> multiple trolls detected
[07:18] <bazhang>  [Guest29238] (~simple@120.206.106.184): Stalin vs Hitler
[10:26] <remoteCTRL>  ocean	are you a community? because if so you should get used to the thought that there are people who have other opinions thyn you my freind, and for that you go and kick me out of the channel?
[10:26] <Myrtti> you are free and welcome to rant about unity in #ubuntu-offtopic
[10:26] <Myrtti> you're not welcome to do so in #ubuntu
[10:27] <remoteCTRL> Myrtti: i am ranting about exactly nothing, that is the point there was a valid question, i answered it
[10:28] <oCean> remoteCTRL: I don't like Unity any more than you do, and your opinion is definitely not why I muted you
[10:28] <remoteCTRL> ya you muted me because i asked you to stop harrassing me
[10:29] <Myrtti> if you have issues with ops, you're welcome to join here, instead of ranting about them in #ubuntu
[10:29] <remoteCTRL> oCean: you see i dont like being bullied
[10:29] <Myrtti> rants in general aren't what we want in there
[10:29] <oCean> remoteCTRL: you don't like rules you mean?
[10:29] <remoteCTRL> Myrtti: i necer wished to discuss anythung, i never wished do cause a fuzz
[10:29] <remoteCTRL> i was asked something i asnwered.
[10:29] <remoteCTRL> oCean: i dont like your ways dude
[10:30] <oCean> ways? or rules?
[10:30] <pangolin> remoteCTRL, since you don't wish to cause a fuss, drop it and move on.
[10:30] <oCean> guidelines?
[10:30] <pangolin> also
[10:30] <pangolin> !guidelines
[10:30] <pangolin> they apply to everybody.
[10:30] <pangolin> NO exceptions
[10:30] <remoteCTRL> well... i do really hope so.
[10:32] <remoteCTRL> well there we go "Keeping a pleasant atmosphere in #ubuntu has been the main cause for it to be such an attractive place". cannot see that in oCean's behaviuor...
[10:32] <remoteCTRL> so
[10:32] <remoteCTRL> moving on:)
[10:32] <pangolin> Can we assume you agree to follow the guidelines?
[10:34] <remoteCTRL> pangolin: i am a perfecct guideline follower, SIR!
[10:34] <pangolin> Good to hear.
[10:35] <remoteCTRL> pangolin: yet still you claim "to keep the channel friendly and to keep people happy". as you said, the rules apply for everybody. so please dont harrass people in the channel, ok?
[10:35] <pangolin> remoteCTRL, hmm
[10:35] <oCean> remoteCTRL: so if any channel OP is pointing out that certain behavirour is not in accordance with the guidelines, you won't react the way you did?
[10:35] <pangolin> gimme a sec
[10:36] <pangolin> any channel user including op
[10:36] <pangolin> but....
[10:36] <remoteCTRL> oCean: first of all, i have no idea whether you are a channel op or not
[10:36] <remoteCTRL> second you complaint about me RANTING
[10:36] <pangolin> This is our sandbox. We decide who we allow to play in it. if we feel you are not following our rules. You don't get to play with us any more.
[10:36] <remoteCTRL> totally wrong choice of words, because i wasnt
[10:37] <remoteCTRL> pangolin: are you of the opinion that that is an appropriate attitude for somebody dependent to this extent on his community?
[10:38] <pangolin> I have no idea what you just said
[10:38] <pangolin> I know all the words, don't know what you meant
[10:38] <remoteCTRL> i did NOT insult anybody or anythiung else, i was NOT ranting, i was asked a question and i answered it
[10:38] <remoteCTRL> pangolin: what is it that you dont understand?
[10:38] <pangolin> "are you of the opinion that that is an appropriate attitude for somebody dependent to this extent on his community?"
[10:38] <pangolin> that.
[10:39] <remoteCTRL> you said it is YOUR sandbox
[10:39] <pangolin> right
[10:39] <remoteCTRL> who are YOU?
[10:39] <pangolin> I said OUR and I am a op of #ubuntu
[10:40] <pangolin> chosen by the IRC Community council elected by the Ubuntu members.
[10:40] <remoteCTRL> so #ubuntu is you rproperty orm how may i understand this?
[10:40] <remoteCTRL> mhm i see
[10:40] <pangolin> not mine specifically but I and other ops in this channel have been granted the authority to decide how to manage the channel.
[10:40] <remoteCTRL> so it is exactly this community who will take away your privileges very quickly if they feel that you are abusing them, right?
[10:41] <pangolin> yes.
[10:41] <remoteCTRL> you see i am part of your community
[10:41] <pangolin> sure
[10:41] <remoteCTRL> and i am not happy with oCean talking to me
[10:41] <pangolin> but you are the one not conforming to the community guidelines.
[10:41] <remoteCTRL> iont his way
[10:42] <remoteCTRL> by answering a question in a help channel?
[10:42] <remoteCTRL> ok guys, i can see this is leading nowhere... as i said, i would like to move on.
[10:42] <pangolin> you know, this combative attitude you have. I am not liking.
[10:42] <remoteCTRL> no hard feelings
[10:43] <remoteCTRL> pangolin: so PLEASE lets stop arguing about a problem that i had with oCean, ok?
[10:43] <remoteCTRL> once more; no hard feelings
[10:43] <pangolin> I'm not feeling comfortable with allowing you to speak in #ubuntu at this time. I'm worried you may take it out on other users because you feel we mistreated you.
[10:43] <remoteCTRL> how did i make the impression?
[10:43] <pangolin> give it 24 hrs and we can see then about you having access to the channel.
[10:44] <remoteCTRL> hehehehe
[10:44] <remoteCTRL> mhm sure
[10:44] <remoteCTRL> if you think that would be best :D
[10:44] <pangolin> I honestly do
[10:45] <remoteCTRL> once more the question: what makes you think i would now insult or harass anybody because i have had a problem with oCean which you have jusat made your's
[10:45] <remoteCTRL> i ma an adult and neither am i mentally sick or anything else and i can very well differenciate who i do have a problem with
[10:45] <pangolin> because the problem you had is not with oCean it is with how you perceived oCean treated you. He treated you the same way he would have any other user who was "ranting" about UI's
[10:46] <remoteCTRL> as far as i can see you are looking for a reason to sanction me now
[10:46] <remoteCTRL> so you are saying that you personally would have reacted in exactly the same way
[10:47] <pangolin> had I been paying attention to #ubuntu at the time, probably would have, yes.
[10:47] <remoteCTRL> mhm
[10:47] <remoteCTRL> i see
[10:47] <remoteCTRL> well take it as feedback from the cummunity that there are people who feel that this behaviour is not appropriate.
[10:48] <pangolin> We will take that into consideration.
[10:48] <Myrtti> let's take a step back and look at the big picture: since Unity was made the default UI for Ubuntu, we've had people come in and give us all levels of "feedback" about it. Not support questions or problems, "feedback". Usually ranting.
[10:48] <remoteCTRL> thank you
[10:48] <remoteCTRL> Myrtti: i am sorry about that
[10:48] <remoteCTRL> for sure you guys put alot of effort into it
[10:49] <remoteCTRL> and i am sure that you would therefore prefer to hear constructive criticism
[10:49] <Myrtti> and because the channel is - nowadays and for several years now - been strictly support only, having this "feedback" in the channel does make the support ever so harder
[10:49] <Myrtti> we're not the receptable for constructive criticism.
[10:49] <remoteCTRL> you should anyways not take it personally
[10:49] <Myrtti> most of the people on the channel have no way of dealing with it, or making things better - as it's only support channel
[10:50] <Myrtti> if you have constructive criticism to give, please do so in appointed areas - bug reports, mailing lists or developer channels.
[10:50] <remoteCTRL> mhm yet still i am unter the impression that there are also developers here? at leas occasionaly? i talked to one once, his name just escapes me...
[10:51] <Myrtti> occasionally yes - but still in supporter role as no development work is done in #ubuntu
[10:51] <remoteCTRL> Myrtti: please. folks. take into consideratin what i keep saying: it wasn't about criticism or ranting, SOMEBODY ASKED A QUESTION. I ANSERED IT.
[10:51] <remoteCTRL> sure...
[10:52] <pangolin> The thing is that it is not the right channel for discussing preferred UI's
[10:52] <remoteCTRL> look guys, i am a systems op at out local university, and i have been contirbuting to the community ON A DAILY BASIS
[10:52] <Myrtti> great.
[10:52] <remoteCTRL> i think so too
[10:52] <remoteCTRL> and that is why i also think that i should be allowed to speak my mind
[10:52] <pangolin> we don't use a karma system, 1 good != right to 1 bad
[10:53] <remoteCTRL> and then ok, next time somebody asks for alternatives for a desktop i will ask him to join 'offtpoic right away, just as i did like 3 minutes before that with one other guy
[10:53] <pangolin> perfect
[10:53] <pangolin> that is all we ask
[10:53] <remoteCTRL> so are we clear?
[10:53] <remoteCTRL> all i ask is to be treated politely:)
[10:56] <oCean> remoteCTRL: Can you accept that, if anyone, not just ops, but anyone is asking you to stop discussing a certain topic, or certain behaviour, we expect you to do so? And not talkback like "i can do without you policing me every two minutes"
[10:56] <oCean> ?
[10:56] <oCean> And if you feel mistreated in any way, you /join here, in stead of starting an argument?
[10:57] <remoteCTRL> oCean: i will sure do in the future
[10:57] <remoteCTRL> join here i mean *g*
[10:57] <oCean> Great
[10:57] <remoteCTRL> ok guys lets all calm down ok?
[10:57] <remoteCTRL> once more
[10:57] <remoteCTRL> no hard feelings
[10:57] <remoteCTRL> ok?
[10:58] <oCean> remoteCTRL: fine, I'll unmute you in #ubuntu channel, just remember if you need us, we're here
[10:58] <remoteCTRL> oCean: thank you dude, i really appreciate the offer:)
[10:58] <oCean> remoteCTRL: you should be able to talk again
[10:59] <remoteCTRL> thanks
[11:01] <oCean> remoteCTRL: If there is nothing more at this point, please note our no-idling policy for this channel
[11:01] <remoteCTRL> oh, sure, see you:)
[12:19] <gry> followup please http://pastebin.ca/2131793
[12:20] <pangolin> you sure that is the right link?
[12:20] <pangolin> unable to connect
[12:20] <Myrtti> antispammeta warned that etz just did the xchat-wdk exploit
[12:21] <pangolin> I don't think it was an exploit attempt
[12:22] <Myrtti> u'\U0001f3e9', u'\U0001f42d' and u'\u2708'
[12:23] <Myrtti> the first one was the one my fonts couldn't display
[12:23] <pangolin> I see a a little "devil" face, a square, and an airplane
[12:25] <Myrtti> yeah, it's the square with 01F3E9 that worries me
[12:25] <Myrtti> and the emoji as well. the plane was normal utf8
[12:25] <pangolin> doesn't seem like anyone got disconnected from it
[12:26] <Myrtti> yeah
[12:26] <pangolin> aiui the exploit only affects after you click on the window it is in
[14:13] <bazhang> good luck with that strategy
[15:16] <pangolin> xchat foo!
[17:47] <ikonia> idoru is back and on the job
[17:49] <vibhav> Can my ban on #ubuntu be removed now?
[17:50] <ikonia> vibhav: for me - no, I still don't think you listen/follow instructions, I know others may have changed their view on that, so if they are willing to accept responsability I have no issue with them removing it
[17:53] <vibhav> ikonia: like?
[17:53] <ikonia> like what ?
[17:54] <vibhav> ikonia: Dont listen instructions, can instance of me doing it?
[17:55] <ikonia> vibhav: yeah sure
[17:55] <ikonia> you where told not to re-apply for membership for a couple of months until you'd done sustained contribution
[17:55] <ikonia> you applied a month later
[17:55] <ikonia> less than that I think
[17:56] <ikonia> you where told how to do translations on the project elky was working on and she said she'd sort it out in the morning as it was bed time
[17:56] <ikonia> instead your hassled her "to do it now"
[17:56] <ikonia> despite being told "wait until she's spoke to the other project memebrs"
[17:56] <ikonia> you carried on hassling
[17:56] <ikonia> good enough ?
[17:57] <vibhav> IS it called hassling?
[17:57] <ikonia> yes
[17:57] <ikonia> when someone has told you they will do something in $X ammount of time, or you need to wait $X ammount of time, and you ignore that and keep trying to get it done before $X has been reached
[17:58] <vibhav> Talking about sustained contribution, thats what I did
[17:58] <ikonia> no it's not
[17:58] <ikonia> you waited 4 weeks
[17:58] <ikonia> after being told " a couple of months at least"
[17:58] <vibhav> But I did contribute a lot
[17:58] <ikonia> you seem to struggle to grasp that sustained is "a period of time with quality input" not " a lot of input in a short period of time"
[17:59] <ikonia> but that's not the point, you asked for examples of you not listening and still being a pest - there you go, there are two examples straight from memory without me looking
[17:59] <vibhav> nevermind then
[18:12] <oCean> srry LjL
[18:13] <LjL> i'm slow, no scripts
[18:13] <oCean> <3 scripts
[18:15] <pangolin> stupid kids want to be "hackers" but can't figure out how to install a script.
[19:31] <SilverLion> meerkats, good evening how can we help you?
[19:33] <meerkats> u, sorry
[19:33] <meerkats> i have to unclick the "automatically connect to" this room
[19:34] <SilverLion> meerkats, please do so ;)
[19:34] <SilverLion> ideling is not allowed in here
[20:03]  * jussi notes jack_sparrow active in #ubuntu