=== dogmatic69_ is now known as dogmatic69
daftykinsnn Jor Jor01:48
JoraGoodnight daftykins01:49
ballI feel a sizeable cup of tea coming on.01:59
=== sagaci_ is now known as sagaci
meethelp me choose- ubuntu or mint? i have ubuntu up and running and using it for quite a few days. through wubi ofcourse. But mint looks good. What should i do?06:58
MartijnVdSdo whatever you like.07:00
meeti got a 10 year old desktop and i was planning to install ubuntu on it. it currently has winxp but works sluggish. will it help to quicken the pc?07:07
MartijnVdSyou might need to add some ram07:08
MartijnVdShow much do you have atm?07:08
meetmartijnvds 512mb07:11
MartijnVdSYeah that'll work but it won't be fast. Try adding some to get to 1 or 2 GB (if that's possible)07:11
meeti wanted to use the current specs only.07:12
meetthe processor is p4 about 1.6 Ghz07:12
MartijnVdSthat should be enough for a working system07:13
MartijnVdSI have a machine with 768M that's quite fast, but if you start more than 2-3 programs it slows down to a crawl because of swapping07:14
meetsomething like that :D Will lubuntu or xubuntu be helpful in this regard? cause i dont like unity and dont plan to use it. is xfce or those others lighter?07:14
MartijnVdSit should be, but it's not as user-friendly07:16
meetoh.. and how to run turboc compiler on ubuntu?07:17
meetin my school i got that boring compiler for c and c++ programming. So at home also i wanted to use it. Unfortunately there does not seem an easy way07:18
MartijnVdSthere's gcc, g++07:19
MartijnVdSif you install the "build-essential" package, it'll pull those in as a dependency, along with the basic C library headers etc.07:20
meetya i did that. but programming in linux and windows is proving completely different. Also i get some xinitthread() not used error when i run  some programs. So all in all its difficult.07:21
MartijnVdSWhat kind of programs are you trying?07:24
MartijnVdSAre you starting with "Hello world"? Do you have makefiles, etc.?07:25
MartijnVdSThe language is the same, but the libraries are mostly different :)07:25
meetya hello world worked all right. i did g++ hello.cpp and then ./a.out. No problems with that. But then for some graphics programs in which i am using the graphics.h header file i get that xinitthread errorss07:28
MartijnVdSThat must be part of some project07:28
MartijnVdSYou might want to look at GTK if you want to write GUI programs07:29
meetwe use the graphics.h header file in turboc. its inbuilt. so i set up the same header file by reading a blog post for that.07:29
meetwhile compiling a program using graphics.h i do the following- g++  a.cpp -lgraph07:30
meetbut if multiple functions of the graphics header files are used than that errors crops up.07:31
popeyisnt that somewhat retro these days?07:41
popeyahh, india07:42
MartijnVdSit's very 90s if I remember07:42
meetmartijnvds where can i find the answers?07:48
popeymeet: are youi running turboc for dos or windows?07:51
meeti have not installed it currently. i am trying to use g++ and gcc after editing in gedit. but not able to do it effieciently.07:54
meetat school i think its the dos turboc. a bluescreen and dos like feel. Anyway can i use it through wine or dosbox?07:55
meeti want to be able to use the clrscr() or getch() fcuntions which i think are windows specific.07:55
meetpopey what do u suggest?07:57
popeymeet: you could install FreeDOS and install it under that08:01
popeyor a lightweight distro light lubuntu08:01
AlanBellhttp://www.floriskaayk.com/ aww, it was a fake08:59
popeyI'm amazed anyone thought it was real09:04
meethow do connect winxp desktop to ubuntu laptop via network. sry for the vague question09:12
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:19
sagaci /o\09:44
AlanBellpopey: the final video looked very wrong, but there was a lot of backstory created09:47
AlanBelllooking at the video again it seems even more wrong09:50
gordcool idea of the day, laptop that lets you insert the really thin ubuntu mouse in the side for storage and easy access (c) gord10:36
moreatigord: http://www.amazon.com/HP-Mogo-Bluetooth-X54-Presenter/dp/B004AMRT62/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_110:39
gordlike that! still (c) gord10:40
hank3three3chatI am having problems with my username, if I stay on one computer its ok, but if I go to another computer and use the same username it won't let me log in and tells me the username is already taken, how can I get around that?11:04
directhexhank3three3chat: for IRC? not trivially11:06
spych102HUD for me is really slow, is it just me?11:07
directhexhank3three3chat: you can only have one user per nickname connected to an IRC server. the workaround is to have that one connected user be a kind of irc proxy server - sometimes called a bouncer - then all your "real" clients connect to the bouncer rather than directly to irc11:07
directhexe.g. i use bip. so i'm not connected to irc from my house - i'm connected to the work irc proxy server from my house, and i'm running bip on there which connects to networks like freenode11:08
brobostigonspych102: i am in unity-2d 5.8 here, and aslong as my machine isnt loaded, it is pretty quick.11:08
directhexwhich is why my whois shows pasanda.collabora.co.uk not hostfoobar.btinternet.com11:08
spych102brobostigon, i might try it in 2d11:08
ali1234unity2d is much faster than unity3d11:09
brobostigonand also, doesnt load the graphics as much.11:09
spych102i thought 3d was accelerated? misnomer?11:10
ali1234it is11:10
ali1234that's just a euphemism for "won't run at all without a 3d card"11:11
hank3three3chatdirecthex: now you lost me…….I have three computers, each running IRC, depending on what I am doing, depends which computer I am on, but it won't let me swap computers even if I log out of one and log into another……so now I have two usernames, which I don't want, I have no idea what tip or what it does, bit over my head…….11:11
ali1234hank3three3chat: /msg nickserv help ghost11:12
spych102i have beta 1 installed which i don't think has HUD11:13
spych102how do i upgrade?11:13
spych102or is there a ppa to install?11:13
brobostigonspych102: if you do a normal upgrade, you should get unity-*d 5.8, which has hud.11:14
hank3three3chatok, thanks for that11:14
brobostigonsudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade11:14
spych102brobostigon, thanks, i  think i did that already but there was a problem and it did a partial upgrade... maybe i should just reinstall?11:16
brobostigonspych102: thats sound like there are package problems,  could you pastebin the whole output you get, please.11:17
spych102brobostigon, unity 2d can't find my terminal11:18
brobostigonspych102: alt + f2, gnome-terminal, press enter.11:18
spych102brobostigon, got it, thanks11:19
spych102but unity 2d seems to find my media files better :-D11:20
brobostigonbrb, need coffee, and lunch.11:21
czajkowskiubuntu uk mailing list is rather noisy on the weekend11:22
matttthat's funny, most mailing lists are usually busy during office hours :)11:26
spych102brobostigon, 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 99 not upgraded is the output from my upgrade... and still no HUD...:-[11:31
brobostigonspych102: i am not a good man to help with such package issues, i know very little about them. someone else will have to help. sorry.11:33
penguin42spych102: is that from an apt-get upgrade ?11:35
spych102yes from 12.04 beta 111:36
penguin42spych102: Tried an apt-get dist-upgrade to see if it will get rid of the 99 stragglers?11:36
spych102doing it right now..11:36
spych102penguin42, it seems to be working, i'll let you know when it's done11:37
czajkowskipopey: when you plug your iphone/ipad into your ubuntu machines does it charge normally ?11:43
spych102penguin42, it's all upgraded now and HUD is working, thanks11:51
penguin42spych102: No problem!11:51
spych102new problem: unity does not find my programs, only media files11:52
spych102lol, i searched for libreoffice in unity and it played a song with libre in the title11:54
Myrttiahhhahhahahahaha http://imgur.com/gallery/2owN512:43
Myrttialmost choked on a toast12:43
popeyczajkowski: yes12:43
czajkowskipopey: thanks12:48
czajkowskipopey: I wondered as I came across this project https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/19158812:49
popeyipad != iphone12:49
popeyipad requires more current to make it charge12:50
popeymany computers don't deliver enough because the USB spec says they dont have to12:50
ali1234how can that be overcome with software?12:50
popeyi have no idea12:50
ali1234there must be something more to it12:50
popeylooks like some devices have configurable current delivery12:51
penguin42ali1234: The amount delivered by a port can be determined by the host I think; I know blackberrys didn't charge unless the host did something12:51
ali1234usb devices can have multiple profiles12:52
penguin42actually, I think it's whether the device asks for it12:52
ali1234self powered vs host powered12:52
ali1234it's up to the host to pick the profile... the device can't directly ask for anything, just give options12:52
ali1234so i guess that's what is happening here12:52
ali1234lsusb -vvv if you want to see all that stuff :)12:53
ali1234if you plug in a ipad and run lsusb -vvv -d vendor:product | grep bNumConfigurations12:57
ali1234you might see it has more than 112:57
bigcalm_lappyGood afternoon peeps :)12:57
quackerso/ all12:57
bigcalm_lappyWhat The Font is a good utility. Is there one for free fonts?12:58
ali1234looking at the source, it doesn't work like that. it requires a special command sent to the ipad12:58
ali1234bigcalm_lappy: i use identifont12:59
ali1234but, i don't think it has free fonts either12:59
ali1234but since nobody uses them and they are all terrible anyway...12:59
hank3three3chatI have a netbook, that doesn't have much ram, it works with 11.10 ok, but its very slow and can only tolerate having one program open before it goes slow, just wondered, how do you install xubuntu on it?13:00
bigcalm_lappySod it, this logo will get the Ubuntu Light treatment  :D13:00
ali1234what logo?13:00
ali1234also if you dont know the font how do you know it;s free?13:01
ali1234or do you just want the most similar free font?13:01
ali1234also if you have a nice big logo, just trace it and then clean it up13:01
bigcalm_lappyali1234: reproducing the logo with a similar font was the idea. Have decided to use Ubuntu Light and it fits quite nicely. I'm not being paid to do this, so less work is better13:50
popeyquiet in here today ☺15:05
popeyi might spark the bbq up again later15:05
MartijnVdSBBQitis ;)15:05
popeywell I bought 8 burgers, 8 sausages, 8 chicken kebabs.. we ate half of it all yesterday15:06
popeycould freeze them I guess, get them out again next weekend15:06
MartijnVdSrefreeze or just freeze?15:06
gordonjcpI want to go outside and do stuff15:06
MartijnVdSrefrozen meat = yuk15:06
gordonjcpbut I've been out all afternoon and am now too hot15:06
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: I did a 1-hour run in the sun today. I'm a bit red :)15:07
gordonjcpMartijnVdS: I've been outside, starting stuff15:07
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: in the 'hood?15:07
gordonjcpI could sit inside and have some tea for an hour, while the Citroën charges up15:07
popeyMartijnVdS: its not frozen15:07
popeyso freeze15:07
MartijnVdSpopey: Nah, BBQ is good for you :)15:07
gordonjcpI could then start that15:08
popeythe burgers came frozen, so they're in the freezer15:08
gordonjcpI need to split up the 1.5kg of mince I bought yesterday15:08
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: Citroen charges up? You have an electric Citroen?15:08
gordonjcpMartijnVdS: no, just the battery for starting it15:08
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: ah :)15:09
gordonjcpI haven't driven it for about a year and now it's run out of electricity15:09
MartijnVdSThey do that..15:09
gordonjcpannoyingly it's nose-in15:09
gordonjcpso I can't even get the van round to jump start it15:09
gordonjcpI tried charging it from the genny but it's drawing too much current and trips it out15:10
MartijnVdSSo now you're on an exercise bicycle, charging the battery? ;)15:10
gordonjcpno, I'm sitting inside out of the sun drinking tea and looking for a battery charger15:10
gordonjcpand contemplating getting a motorbike licence15:11
MartijnVdSmid-life crisis time ;)15:11
gordonjcppetrol price crisis time15:12
gordonjcpmuch as I love driving around in the CX, at 32mpg it's a bit heavy for day-to-day use15:12
MartijnVdSah, my Smart does ~45ish15:13
gordonjcpI have a diesel van but it's thirsty as hell15:13
gordonjcpI specced a Citroën Dispatch with the 2-litre engine and 6-speed box, but the company bought the 1.6 with 5-speed box15:14
MartijnVdS\o/ Smart, except it's tiny15:14
gordonjcpbecause it was cheaper and "the smaller engine would be better on fuel"15:14
gordonjcpunless you drive long distances15:14
MartijnVdSand people on motorways will just "forget" you're there15:14
gordonjcplike, um, me15:14
gordonjcpso in day-to-day use it gets about 30mph, dropping to 25 on the motorway15:14
MartijnVdSBut if the company bought the van, don't they also pay for fuel?15:15
gordonjcpthey do, but I tend not to take the piss if I'm doing personal miles in it15:15
MartijnVdSah, understandable15:16
gordonjcpso I'm thinking about putting it back to being a pool vehicle and not paying company car taxes15:16
MartijnVdSI seldom go to (or from) work by car. \o/ proper train service15:17
gordonjcpyeah, I get that a lot15:17
gordonjcp"ZOMG you shouldn't drive around use public transport"15:17
MartijnVdSDoesn't work for all kinds of work though, I agree15:17
gordonjcpwill do, how do you fancy coming with me to carry the 700kg of test equipment?15:17
ali1234700kg? are you testing elephants?15:19
gordonjcpali1234: I have literally a vanload of test gear, tools and spares15:19
gordonjcpat the moment it's mostly empty15:19
gordonjcpnext week I have to pretty much decant half the workshop into my van15:20
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: put a wifi access point in it, "Police Surveillance Van #432"15:20
gordonjcpMartijnVdS: I told you about the "secret CCTV spy vans"?15:20
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: TV Licence Check Van15:21
gordonjcpMartijnVdS: the local council have some security guys15:21
gordonjcpthey do stuff like drive around council housing estates, direct traffic at football matches, things like that15:22
gordonjcpstuff that it would be a waste of time for the police to do15:22
MartijnVdSI know the kind.15:22
gordonjcpso the Daily Record published a story ranting about how the council were deploying "SECRET SPY CCTV VANS" to spy on football fans and what a disgrace it was15:23
gordonjcpa month or so later15:23
gordonjcpthe Daily Record published a story saying that the council had deployed a "State-of-the-Art Covert Surveillance Vehicle" to monitor the Occupy protestors in Blythswood Square15:24
MartijnVdSgordonjcp: A white van?15:24
gordonjcplet me just find a pic15:24
gordonjcpif it wasn't for the snow you'd see the words "CCTV VEHICLE" across the roof above the windscreen15:25
MartijnVdSIf that's state of the art and secret/covert..15:25
MartijnVdSthey're not even trying15:25
gordonjcpit's very advanced15:25
gordonjcpit has two 3G modems, a kettle and a microwave15:25
MartijnVdS_2_ 3G modems. In case one of the networks flakes out?15:25
gordonjcpwell one is for internet access, one is for the IP cameras15:26
gordonjcpit's pretty cool, they can route video from moving vans to and from the control room15:26
gordonjcpand out to their bus in the picture15:26
MartijnVdSthat's cool15:26
gordonjcpyeah, saves a lot of time15:26
gordonjcp"Right, it's that guy with the blue jacket"15:26
gordonjcp"Most of them have blue jackets"15:26
MartijnVdSbut it's not quite secret, with the reflecting line on it and all15:26
gordonjcp"Well the guy with the blue jacket and the - aw, fuck it, <clickety> *that* guy..."15:27
gordonjcpwell yeah, tbh it wouldn't be my first choice as a covert surveillance vehicle15:27
gordonjcpI'd go for a rusty white transit15:27
gordonjcpmaybe red, with shinier bits where the Post Office vinyl-cut has been removed15:28
MartijnVdS"FREE CANDY" written on the side15:28
MartijnVdSI've seen the inside of one of those TV "mobile reporting" vans (with the satellite dish on top) once. They have LOTS of VERY cool gear.15:29
gordonjcpMartijnVdS: yeah, I know a guy who drives one15:29
gordonjcpnice stuff15:29
gordonjcpwhen he's bored he uses the link dish and spectrum analyser as a radio telescope ;-)15:29
* MartijnVdS hates gnome-dvb-daemon a bit more15:30
MartijnVdSthey've finally fixed the driver for my satellite card15:31
mgdmI keep meaning to ask the guy at work for a tour of our one15:31
MartijnVdSnow the userspace software is annoying :)15:31
ali1234why would you even use that?15:32
ali1234use mythtv15:32
MartijnVdSali1234: Doesn't that require my machine to be a dedicated MythTV thing?15:34
MartijnVdSali1234: I just want a window with a video stream..15:35
ali1234you need to install mythbackend15:35
ali1234so yes, in the sense that your machine is currently a dedicated dbus server and X server15:35
MartijnVdSali1234: Backend, that's not frontend.15:35
ali1234yes you need to install mythfrontend too15:36
* MartijnVdS tries15:36
ali1234yeah so what?15:37
MartijnVdS(a) it'15:37
MartijnVdSs mysql15:37
ali1234it's better than couchdb15:37
MartijnVdSali1234: sqlite++15:37
ali1234sqlite is slooooooooooooooooooow15:37
popeydamning with feint praise there ali1234 ☺15:37
MartijnVdSnow it's asking me for a mysql root pw15:37
ali1234popey: maybe, but nobody blinks if you ask them to install couchdb just to be able to tweet some lolcats or something15:38
ali1234i can understand why twitter needs a database to run their website, i can't understand why gwibber needs one15:39
AlanBellgwibber didn't use couchdb in anything like a sensible way15:39
=== IdleOne is now known as pangolin
ali1234afaict couchdb is designed only to be used in non-sensible ways15:39
mgdmthunderbird reckons I received 5869 new messages there15:41
mgdmno, I didn't15:41
AlanBellcouchdb didn't turn out how I expected it to15:44
AlanBellgwibber and Ubuntu One used it in such strange ways I am not surprised that neither of them worked out15:44
AlanBellthe way they were doing it was kind of like storing a novel in an ext4 directory as millions of zero byte files with the content in the filenames and ls of the directory to read the file15:46
ali1234hmmmmm how do i figure out what order css directives get applied in?15:47
mgdmali1234: the algorithm is sadly quite complex15:49
ali1234so i;ve got two directives15:49
mgdmali1234: though Firebug in Firefox/Chrome's developer tools/Chromium's equivalent give you enough of an idea15:49
ali1234#widgets li {...} and li.myclass {...}15:49
ali1234and the former overrides the latter15:50
mgdmyes, due to specificity15:50
mgdmidentifying something by an ID is more specific than by a class15:50
ali1234ironcially, the former applies to a lot more things than the latter15:50
ali1234#widgets ul {...} means all <ul> inside a element with ID #widgets?15:51
mgdmwould making the latter '#widgets li.myclass' break other things?15:51
ali1234ok so i just need to do my custom CSS the same way then15:51
ali1234er, what you said shouldn't break anything15:52
ali1234it might break my plugin from working with other themes actually15:53
ali1234i don't think wordpress ever sets IDs, it sets classes on everything15:53
mgdmOh, WP15:53
ali1234yeah so basically i'm making a wordpress plugin and i want it to work with any theme15:53
ali1234but it needs custom CSS to do what it does15:54
mgdmah yes15:54
mgdma reasonable request15:54
ali1234so i need to say "ignore the theme, do this"15:54
ali1234i will just set by hand IDs on the widget html15:55
ali1234actually that won't work because it's the <li> i need to override15:55
ali1234and there's obviously more than one of those15:55
ali1234ah but i can do exactly what theyve done... ok15:56
* mgdm plays CSS Suxx15:56
mgdmor I would, if spotify hadn't removed it15:56
ali1234well that didn't work16:00
ali1234and also it broke all the existing styling16:01
ali1234ah ! important16:06
ali1234seems to be what i need16:06
ali1234oh hang on, they have to be otherwise equal16:07
ali1234aaaaah. i get it now16:07
ali1234that's stupid :(16:07
ali1234but i can fix it16:08
=== tubadaz__ is now known as tubadaz
ali1234argh now it doesn't work at all16:09
ali1234i need to insert an extra div to hold all my elements, just so that i can have an extra element selector in the rule, so that it will be "more specific"16:11
mgdmit sucks16:17
mgdmalso, !important is hilarious - to anyone with even half a coding brain, it looks like "not important"16:18
ali1234they should have made it imporant!!!!16:18
ali1234where more !  wine16:18
BigRedSmore wine?16:18
ali1234then it would have actually been useful16:18
MartijnVdS! is a bottle in nethack :)16:18
lubotu3MartijnVdS: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:18
ali1234because the chances of two ules being "otherwise equal" is virtual zero anyway16:18
ali1234wait hang on16:21
penguin42Tis lovely out thre16:21
ali1234why have i never seen that before?16:30
MartijnVdSbecause you value your sanity?16:34
ali1234"and i thought php coding was bad"16:34
SuperEngineerHaving installed 12.04 beta1... will the updates automatically take me the equivalent of beta2 & final release?16:57
SuperEngineerThanks penguin42 - I'm sure it's been asked 100's of times b4 - forgive my ignorance  pretty please16:58
penguin42SuperEngineer: You occasionally get a few corners that aren't quite tidied up, but it normally does16:58
SuperEngineerDo I need to change update sources come final release [to align with actual Precise release?17:00
SuperEngineerweee!   thanks a mil17:00
spych102SuperEngineer I had to dist-upgrade to update all my packages17:18
SuperEngineerspych102: woops! [that is what I suspected, tho - that or realligning software sources]17:22
spych102i'm not sure that's the way it's supposed to work though...17:23
SuperEngineer...although that does conflict with brobostigon 's statement17:23
ali1234you're always spposed to dist-upgrade on ubuntu17:23
ali1234you don't have to edit sources.list17:24
spych102thanks ali123417:24
SuperEngineerthanks ali123417:24
ali1234apt-get dist-upgrade is like apt-get upgrade except it can remove packages17:24
ali1234dist-upgrade isn't actually a distribution upgrade17:25
Nafallonot true. the always dist-upgrade.17:26
Nafalloupgrade is the correct usual case.17:26
ali1234oh there's a factoid17:27
lubotu3A dist-upgrade will install new dependencies for packages already installed and may remove packages if they are no longer needed. This will not bring you to a new release of Ubuntu, see !upgrade if that is your intention.17:27
spych102so what is used to upgrade between distributions then17:27
Nafallospych102: do-release-upgrade17:27
ali1234sudo do-release-upgrade17:27
lubotu3For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade17:27
ali1234hmm that's not really very explanatory17:27
Nafallothere was a recent case where a dist-upgrade would have removed ubuntu-desktop, unity and most of compiz.17:27
SuperEngineereven from the beta installs?17:28
Nafalloso for unstable systems, dist-upgrade can be a killer ;-)17:28
BigRedSwell, everything can17:28
spych102i know so little after so many years with ubuntu...17:28
BigRedSthat's why they're described as 'unstable'17:28
Nafalloupgrade would hold the packages that try to remove stuff instead :-P17:28
Nafallojust saying17:28
popeyyeah, i am more careful about dist-upgrading within a dev release17:29
popeyarchive skew can end up with unity/compiz getting removed17:29
Nafallomy standard command is sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -dy dist-upgrade17:29
Nafallo-dy = download only, answer yes17:29
Nafallothat shows me what the system wants to do, AND grab all the things it might want to do ;-)17:30
spych102then how do you apply the updates?17:30
Nafallodepends on the updates.17:30
Nafalloeither apt-get install <package>, apt-get install upgrade or apt-get install dist-upgrade17:31
NafalloOR I just use the nice graphical update-manager ;-)17:31
popeywith fewer installs in those lines17:31
Nafalloon servers I tend to use either apt-get install for just a few packages, or go aptitude if it's more.17:31
Nafallooh. quite right popey ;-)17:32
Nafalloeither apt-get install <package>, apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade17:32
spych102i think i'd rather chance it and reinstall17:32
popeychance what?17:32
Nafallochance loosing things :-P17:33
spych102removing the desktop, unity and compiz17:33
popeyit wont if you read what it says on the screen17:33
spych102i never do that17:33
popeyand if you "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get upgrade" it definitely wont17:33
Nafalloreinstall is a hell of a lot more drastic. that would clear all files you have :-P17:33
spych102but i have a separate /home17:33
Nafallounencrypted? ;-)17:34
popey☹  people dont do upgrades17:34
popeythey thus aren't testing them17:34
popeyso dont file bugs17:34
popeyso they never get fixed17:34
popeyso people complain that upgrades don't work17:34
popeyself perpetuating spiral of fail17:34
NafalloI do upgrade, but then fix stuff myself before bothering people... I should fix that.17:35
Nafallobut then again, I'm tempted to just use LTS for a while ;-)17:35
Nafalloonce precise lands fully.17:35
Nafallohmm. there are a lot of packages it wants to upgrade on my netbook, and last time I did, it broke :-/17:37
penguin42popey: Lots of people in +1 having problems with the upgrade17:37
penguin42but it's very difficult to test; so many combinations of different packages people have installed17:37
popeythere's a problem with unity/compiz right now17:38
popeypeople are recommended to use unity2d for now17:38
popeyuntil tomorrow17:38
Nafallopopey: is this the screen flickering?17:38
popeysome people get black screen17:38
* SuperEngineer hits screen to see if it flickers -nope -not even then!17:39
Nafallopopey: so yeah. I updated shit and went all... let's revert, then apt-btrfs-snapshot wasn't about to move to an earlier snapshot for some reason and stuff broke for realz :-P17:40
* SuperEngineer turns screen upside done to see if compiz drops out the case.... nope~ still no fault found17:40
NafalloI manage to fix it though, eventually.17:40
NafalloI'm good at fixing broken Ubuntus ;-)17:40
NafalloI've had lots of practise17:41
SuperEngineerNafallo: then why so bugs still listed.... go fix 'em!17:41
Nafallowell. I might get more involved in the community again at some point...17:41
pr0ph3thi all17:42
Nafalloright now finding a new flat and a new job are higher on my priority list17:42
Nafallohi pr0ph3t17:42
pr0ph3tis anyone using gnome-shell on Ubuntu 12.04?17:42
pr0ph3tI am guessing I'm in the completely wrong channel17:44
Nafallonot the wrong channel, I wouldn't say.17:44
popeyI'm sure someone somewhere is17:45
pr0ph3tme :-)17:46
BigRedSI am, but not right now17:52
BigRedSI installed it, but I thought I'd give Unity another go today, since apparently it's sobered up in several areas since I last tried it17:53
Nafallopopey: so, is it just compiz and unity I need to hold off upgrading?17:57
Nafallopopey: i.e. stuff like the gconf split should be fine?17:57
popeywhat compiz and unity releases you on?17:58
Nafallonafallo@parakeet:~$ dpkg -l compiz unity | grep ^ii | awk '{print $2,$3}'17:59
Nafallocompiz 1:
Nafallounity 5.6.0-0ubuntu417:59
popeyyeah, keep them17:59
Nafallopopey: how about nux?18:01
popeyI'd keep that back too18:03
Nafalloyeah. I assumed so :-)18:03
* Nafallo upgrades bits of his netbook instead of all ;-)18:03
SuperEngineerI am not the world's biggest unity fan & therefore [perhaps]  I shouldn't like 12.04 *but* - I replaced 11.10 with it & am getting interested [though 10.04 is till my staple diet on same pooter]18:03
SuperEngineerwith the addition of Cairo Dock -it is odg so far18:04
SuperEngineer- & I'm impressed with the speed of change from crash or freeze or fail to now working ok - it's still 1st beta!18:05
SuperEngineer...if only the apps [not core] could be fixed at same speed18:07
penguin42SuperEngineer: Some things which look horribly broken are actually one simple problem - and the other way!18:07
SuperEngineerpenguin42:  agreed18:07
* penguin42 hands SuperEngineer a good text editor and compiler18:08
* SuperEngineer is overcome by penguin42's generosity - so overcome that the blushes themselves are blushing18:09
penguin42ahhh shucks18:10
ali1234why would you run cairo dock in unity?18:19
ali1234why even keep unity?18:19
AzelphurI run cairo-dock without unity xD18:19
ali1234it's like saying KDE is pretty good if you use gnome-panel with it18:20
gordonjcpthe thing that bugs me about Unity is the annoying way it "stacks" multiple windows in the buttons down the side18:20
gordonjcpit's hard enough to tell what they are18:20
ali1234all docks do that18:20
ali1234which is why i boggle whenever someone claims cairo-dock is better than unity18:21
SuperEngineerali1234: i got too used to [app menu as a global check] & especially the weather  info in nitification area -still missing from from unity18:22
ali1234i don't understand18:22
SuperEngineer...& the ability to one click "restart" in 10.04 - not poss 12.04 till you choose "shutdown"... Spock says - but that's illogical Captain!18:23
ali1234of course it is18:23
ali1234shutdown vs shutdown and then start again18:23
AlanBellgordonjcp: did you try my window quicklists thing?18:24
gordonjcpAlanBell: no, what was that?18:25
SuperEngineerI choose shutdown to restart Captain? When I used to state "restart"? No! [Spock has a fit]18:25
SuperEngineercheck notification area for waether in area he's off to travel to each day... "but it's not there Captain"!  [Spoke has an emotionalcrisis]18:27
gordonjcpW: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/alanbell/unity/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/source/Sources18:27
AlanBellah, sorry, precise only at the moment18:27
gordonjcpah, I can't run precise18:27
AlanBelland there is an api call I am using that isn't in oneiric18:27
gordonjcpI've only got 2G of RAM18:28
SuperEngineerali1234: therefore.... SuperEngineer uses Cairo Dock in 12.04.... simples ;)18:28
gordonjcpis precise going to be less memory-hungry when it's finished?18:31
ali1234SuperEngineer: but that's not my original question... why do you use cairo-dock with unity? why don't you use cario-dock *without* unity?18:31
SuperEngineerali1234: coz I leave Unity active for the seldom used but "wanted in a hurry when wanted" apps... the rest I leave to Cairo18:33
SuperEngineer.me just saw AlanBell 's quicklists thing....  & wonders wht AlanBell doesn't go to Canonical & collect his reward [whist kicking them where it makes them go "ouch!" for not including it in release!!!!18:33
* AlanBell looks forward to the all expenses paid trip to California18:35
AlanBelloh look, there it is :) \o/18:35
SuperEngineerAlanBell: did you here them go "ouch" ?18:36
BigRedSThere I was, expecting an explanation that that's just not how free software works :)18:36
AlanBellI think they are maintaining that the alt-tab behavior of raising all the wrong windows just doesn't exist18:37
AlanBelland that clicking on a launcher item doesn't raise all the windows, just the most recent one18:37
BigRedSit doesn't *always* get it wrong18:37
SuperEngineera kiss/lick in the **** is better than none.... i.e. free!18:37
BigRedSthat's half the fun18:37
ali1234yeah half the time it doesn't do that18:38
* SuperEngineer hums "how many alt-tabs must a man walk down"18:40
ali1234http://phrogz.net/css/vertical-align/index.html :C18:42
SuperEngineerLooking back at my previous [in case y'all think it's a whinge] may I point out that  I refuse to "whinge" at stuff people work hard to creatre & to provide with good intent, that is "free as in dinner" as well as "free as in freedom".  I maintain my right to constructive critique is all.18:48
ali1234whinge all you want18:48
SuperEngineerok - whinge I will... why isn't the weather perfect? - why do people insist on shoppping at the same time I do?  ...and as to the state ogf modern governments - well makes I spit!18:50
SuperEngineer...and don't even ask me about taxation... :D18:52
BigRedSI maintain my right to rant18:52
penguin42SuperEngineer: Up here in Manchester, the weather today was pretty much perfect18:54
SuperEngineerpenguin42: see- you're making me whinge again!  it's not perfect here in Glos. - sometimes at least 1/2 degree too hot, sometimes at least 1/2 degree too cold!18:56
SuperEngineer....now the sun's going down!18:57
penguin42SuperEngineer: See, we even managed some sun for the queen this time around, to make up for completely soaking her at the Common Wealth games a few years ago18:57
SuperEngineerpenguin42: [perhaps she was grateful for the free bath]18:57
diploevening all19:00
SuperEngineer*don't* miss the oportunity folks - if sky is clear where you are - look up in direction of the moon19:02
SuperEngineervenus, jupiter & moon forming an 'L' plate - - you'd think they'd had enough lessons by now ;)19:03
gordonjcpand if you're up around 5am tomorrow, look out for the ISS19:15
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
gordonjcpjust after 6am on the 28th it will be by far the brightest thing in the sky19:15
SuperEngineer[if no satellite debris beats us to it]19:15
* daubers really needs a new telescope19:16
* MartijnVdS saw a zig-zag line in the skies earlier19:16
MartijnVdSJust a short stretch of zig-zag white in a blue sky19:17
* SuperEngineer hands daubers a virtual telescope & MartijnVdS a virtual bottle of eye wash19:17
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: I'll upload the pic I took with my EOS :)19:17
SuperEngineer...& MartijnVdS  a virtual box of lens cleaner19:18
SuperEngineer[on *my* planet we see loads of zig-zag lines in the sky... but they still can't find us!!!!19:20
SuperEngineer[life is better on *my* planet]19:21
* SuperEngineer hopes GCHQ ain't monitoring!19:21
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: 90%..19:21
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: http://imgur.com/YasE219:22
SuperEngineeroh... that! soz, that was me on a quicky back home to *my* planet19:23
SuperEngineerthough some might say it was a piece of debris burning up in atmoshere.... or  a militia experiment?19:24
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: it stayed there for several minutes19:24
SuperEngineer...or N. Korea missile [sorry, sattelite launcher] being tested?19:25
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: visible in the Netherlands. Likely story.19:25
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: It's in the west too, so it must be something you Brits did.19:25
SuperEngineerMartijnVdS: nah, surely not! what have Netherlands done to upset N. korea?19:26
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: Exist? Not be communist?19:27
SuperEngineerwell - what did you expect then? provacation!19:27
SuperEngineer[although I suppose it could be air-to-air missile combat training]19:28
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: nah, that's to the north from here, and too far away.19:28
SuperEngineerslowest missile around if it was, as well!19:29
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: It looks a bit like that crack the Doctor found in Amy's bedroom.19:29
SuperEngineerhey... this is a family channel!19:29
* jacobw restarts compiz19:33
MartijnVdSjacobw: again..19:33
jacobwi still prefer unity to shell :|19:35
MartijnVdSmessing up my Alt19:35
jacobwhold your alt19:36
MartijnVdSsometimes I press alt in error19:36
MartijnVdSthen the HUD pops up19:36
MartijnVdSthen I turn off the HUD.19:36
ali1234&hud = 0;19:37
ali1234i turned off the windows key short cut too19:38
MartijnVdSas long as alt+f2 still works19:38
ali1234it does :)19:38
MartijnVdSbecause that was a problem earlier.. turn of HUD, lose ALL alt shortcuts19:38
ali1234i wish there was an option to make that appear instead of the dash when you click the bfb19:39
MartijnVdSAs if they don't test their commits before releasing them :(19:39
jacobwwhat's the state of asterisk on ubuntu server?19:39
jacobw(i'm aware of #ubuntu-server, and of Daviey)19:39
SuperEngineerScientists identity a genetic variant that turns mild flu into a life-threatening illness. [they call it "the idiot who coughs all over you"]19:46
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: doesn't that mean you can kill those people in self-defence and get off free?19:48
DJonesthe cloudprint app on ubuntu server19:49
SuperEngineerhmmm - never thought of that - perhaps it's time to "beta" test the theory ;)19:49
DJonesDoes anybody use the cloudprint app on ubuntu server19:49
MartijnVdScloudprint app?19:53
MartijnVdSisn't that part of Gnome?19:54
amarcolinohi just did a clean install of 11.10 with lvm, however, on boot the lvm partitions arean't activated/mounted unless I manually do vgchange -a y, would like to know how to automate this for every boot or how to go about sorting this issue?19:57
DJonesMartijnVdS: Sort of, but there is a terminal based app so you don't need a gui & chrome installed20:00
MartijnVdSDJones: there is? cool.20:01
DJonesMartijnVdS: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/cloudprint20:01
DJonesJust getting my tablet so I can print20:01
SuperEngineeranyone found a way of using CryptKeeper in 12.04?20:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Matt Daubney] Reading Hackspace Door Entry System - http://daubers.co.uk/2012/03/25/reading-hackspace-door-entry-system/20:10
SuperEngineeras in bug #bug #96352220:13
lubotu3Launchpad bug 963522 in cryptkeeper (Ubuntu) "cryptkeeper does not show in 12.04 notification area or in unity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96352220:13
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
* SuperEngineer is now catching up on Linux Outlaws podcasts... bfn... luv to all & have fun --= & virtual smiles to y'all :-)20:33
* popey points AlanBell at https://bugs.launchpad.net/df-libreoffice/+bug/1/comments/164721:51
lubotu3Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]21:51
popeyAlanBell: i emailed him and pointed him at the a11y list fwiw21:52
mgdmOh, hello22:10
mgdmI just discovered the windows key + W expose-style thing22:10
mgdmthat's quite cool22:10
BigRedSI just pressed it and I've no idea what happened22:26
BigRedSIt is, I think, what a DE would see if it's life flashed before its eyes22:27
mgdmwell, it's about 1 in 10 that Unity will crash :P22:27
BigRedSYeah, I just did it again and I think it went right that time22:27
mgdmbut on mine it gave me thumbnails of all my open windows22:27
BigRedSlike gnome3's win key22:27
mgdmI've not played much with gnome-shell, so I can't compare (I have it on a netbook, but binned it in favour of LXDE)22:28
BigRedSAh, I've been a bit of a DE whore recently22:31
BigRedSNow I'm annoyed with all of them :)22:31
ali1234i hate css22:33
mgdmI've learned to hate CSS over a period of approximately 10 years22:34
mgdmit's quite a well-developed hatred, now22:34
BigRedSI don't think anybody *likes* it22:34
mgdmthat's why I do the back-end of web development - I might spend a lot of time using PHP and MySQL, but at least for the most part I don't have to deal with ^%(%ing CSS22:34
mgdm(and the various bugs and 'features' of its implementations)22:35
ali1234opacity is really broken22:36
ali1234opacity+hover that is22:36
BigRedSOh, I grumble when I need to write PHP22:36
ali1234if you want to change opacity on hover, you can do that22:36
* mgdm is mgdm at php dot net, so based on that evidence doesn't hate it that muc22:36
ali1234but if you have another element over it, the hover won't pass through unless the element is nested, and then it inherits opacity22:37
mgdmI'm not under any illusions, though22:37
BigRedSmgdm: yeah, I remember your odd taste in programming lanugages :)22:37
BigRedSI wrote a bunch of perl for our web devs to use to interfere with our systems, and then they reminded me that what they actually wanted was some php functions :/22:37
mgdmit's terrible. I'm writing Python right now, FFS.22:37
ali1234so you can't have an image, then a transparent div that changes on mouse over, and then none transparent text, all stacked22:37
ali1234wait, does CSS support RGBA?22:38
mgdmin modern browsers, at least22:39
mgdmbackground-color: rgba(0, 1, 0.5, 0) I believe22:39
ali1234ok so maybe i can do it that way and it won't be inherited22:39
mgdmapparently, and this might shock you, but IE may not support it22:40
mgdmthat is from 2009, though22:40
ali1234rg and b are ints and a is a float22:42
mgdmI've been doing too much cairo22:42
ali1234so you have to say rgba(0,127,255,0.5);22:42
mgdmso RGB are probably all 0 -> 255, then?22:42
ali1234this is so stupid22:42
ali1234who comes up with this stuff, hnestly?22:43
mgdmI don't know22:43
mgdmI wish I knew22:43
mgdmthen I would have someone I could make a voodoo doll of22:43
ali1234it does work however22:43
ali1234ie can get stuffed22:44
mgdmI've been redoing my own site, and using lesscss.org for it22:44
mgdmwhich makes CSS marginally less painful, because you can do things like define a colour once, and reference it everywhere22:45
mgdmand nest declarations, and have mixins, and such22:45
mgdmI'm of the opinion that the WHATWG or whoever should just lift that as CSS422:45
BigRedSthat's quite neat22:48
mgdmyes, it is, very22:48
mgdmI have it embedded in a deployment process at work, so you can write LESS and it makes actual real CSS by the time you it staging22:48
mgdmthere are others (SASS, SCSS, etc) but none of them are quite so elegant22:49
ali1234\o/ yeah22:57
ali1234mouse over the voting block22:57
ali1234now i've got it working i don't even like it22:57
mgdmYou don't have permission to access / on this server.22:57
BigRedSIt's verboten :(22:57
ali1234try now :)22:58
mgdmthat works22:58

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