[00:00] <astraljava> Laney: Done, thanks!
[00:01] <Laney> ok, thanks to you too!
[00:04] <astraljava> ailo: This was mostly a release-specific issue. Beta-2 ISO testing is underway, so unnecessary package upgrading in the middle of it is frowned upon, unless there is a dire need. In this case, we can certainly wait until the testing is done, but prior to final freeze.
[00:04] <astraljava> release-process-specific*
[00:10] <ailo> It's not easy getting to know how all of this works
[00:10] <ailo> It's not like you get pointed to a manual
[00:11] <ailo> I should probably read the wiki a bit closer
[00:11] <ailo> But, we should probably have a better way of instructing new collaborators on how to help US
[00:12] <astraljava> ailo: It's alright. I mostly learn by asking questions, too. Nothing wrong with that. :)
[00:13] <ailo> astraljava: Except that way is not very energy efficient
[00:13] <astraljava> ailo: But yeah, enhancing docs is never a bad idea.
[00:13] <ailo> Perhaps we should try to form some kind of a API for new particiapants
[00:14] <ailo> I think we should open this thing up more
[00:14] <ailo> In a structured manner
[00:14] <ailo> Too few people involved, but also, too introspective
[00:15] <astraljava> ailo: Sure. There's already quite a lot in help.u.c and wiki.u.c, so making some sort of platform from where to jump to existing would probably be easiest and most efficient.
[00:17] <ailo> astraljava: That sounds great. And whenever someone wants to join in, tell the: read this. If you want to do that: read this first...
[00:17] <ailo> There are so many things going on too
[00:17] <ailo> It's not only the admin stuff
[00:18] <ailo> A distro is bigger than one person
[00:18] <ailo> Delegation
[00:19] <ailo> And, most importantly, communication
[00:20] <astraljava> We used to have a responsible person for documentation, but I don't know what happened to it, if [s]he's still active etc.
[00:23] <ailo> astraljava: We should probably try to join forces on that.
[00:23] <ailo> Perhaps that would be a good first step for next release
[00:23] <ailo> Good docs
[00:29] <knome> we definitely should join forces
[00:30] <knome> i mean, xubuntu needs new docs too
[00:30] <knome> and, since there's a lot in common (xfce) ...
[01:49] <len_> Yesterdays jack was wonderful, todays is no good...
[01:49] <len_> or maybe it is qjackctl
[01:49] <len_> I can't use qjackctl to start jack
[01:51] <len_> I have rebooted.... looked at the settings. If I start ardour with no jack running and let ardour start jack then start qjackctl things seem fine.
[01:53] <len_> After login, if I start qjackctl but don't start jack but do a ps x, I can see jackdbus -auto running. It seems to get started at the same time as qjackctl...
[01:53] <len_> but qjackctl thinks it is not.
[01:55] <len_> What changed from yesterday?
[02:48] <len_> Ok, change to -p 128 and it seems to work...
[02:49] <len_> Ardour was working because it defaults to 1024.
[02:51] <len_> Headphone jack causes xruns... not a problem, just my headphone jack. Alsa auto switches the speaker off and headphone on when the headphones plug in.
[02:54] <len_> ailo, was it you that was having problems with qjackctl? As in not stopping jackd?
[02:55] <ailo> len_: Me, and ScottL. You too?
[02:55] <len_> Maybe try it with -p128
[02:56] <len_> I was having all kinds of problems trying -p64.
[02:56] <ailo> len_: Trying a higher latency is not going to solve the problem for me
[02:56] <len_> I switched to 128 and it works fine.
[02:56] <len_> I'm not saying it solves the problem...
[02:57] <ailo> If qjackctl is not able to stop jack, it's a clear bug
[02:57] <len_> just that it may say where to start looking.
[02:57] <len_> Yes. but if changing settins fixes it then it is a speed related bug.
[02:58] <len_> Not just a bug.
[02:58] <len_> You can see my problem just backscroll a bit.
[02:59] <len_> My question is if my problem is the same one or different.
[02:59] <len_> I may have just hit my hardware limits.
[03:01] <len_> I was able to switch to 64 while jack was running with guitarix. It did seem to work. but Ardour calls 64 a setting error.
[03:02] <ailo> len_: It's not a hardware limit.
[03:02] <ailo> It' never happened before
[03:02] <len_> ok.
[03:03] <len_> I don't have enough experience to tell.
[03:03] <ailo> To my knowledge, qjackctl has never had any problems stopping jack, only now(jackdmp)
[03:03] <ailo> I've filed a bug
[03:04] <len_> mp mean multi-processor?
[03:04] <len_> Seems to me the jack devs found the MP didn't help that much anyway.
[03:06] <ailo> len_: Please confirm, if you experience the same bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/956438
[03:06] <ailo> In my view, this is a major but, that prevents ubuntustudio LTS from being a "stable" distro"
[03:06] <ailo> bug*
[03:08] <len_> I am going to have to make it happen I guess. Today, I spent a long time just getting jack to start.
[03:09] <ailo> len_: What do you mean, getting jack to start?
[03:09] <len_> if I set -p 64 jackctl won't start jackd.
[03:09] <len_> 128 is ok.
[03:10] <ailo> len_: That may depend on the hardware
[03:10] <ailo> Most device will not start in -p16
[03:10] <len_> I think it does, that is my netbook after all.
[03:10] <len_> Atom chip and all.
[03:11] <ailo> M-audio devices should, but it doesn't mean they will run without xruns
[03:11] <ailo> Atom is like P3
[03:11] <ailo> So, 128 sounds about right
[03:11] <len_> I don't know that I will have the time to install in the desktop.
[03:12] <len_> OK, I will test with 128. guitarix sounds not too bad... a bit noisy though.
[03:12] <ailo> If there are no xruns, then it's not the fault of jack anyway
[03:12] <len_> Could be my input circuits.
[03:13] <len_> The only xruns I had were when the jeadphone jack wiggled... 
[03:13] <len_> Auto mutes speakers and stuff.
[03:15] <len_> ailo thanks for the help. I'll play with it and see if I can get the same problem.
[03:26] <ScottL> len_, dont' forget to please report your tests on the iso tracker, por favor
[03:35] <len_> How many do you want me to report?
[03:35] <len_> ScottL ^^
[03:37] <len_> ailo, confirmed Bug #956438 
[03:40] <len_> Happens to me about every 3 or 4th time. I generally have to restart qjackctl to get anything to work. It seems to be a dbus problem. 
[03:40] <len_> Thats it for me tonight...
[03:43] <ailo> The problem seems to be that qjackctl does not properly shut down jackdbus
[03:51] <ScottL> len_, if you just can mark the i386 ones that you did, i'm getting the two 64bit
[03:52] <ScottL> i'll be filing a few bugs tomorrow and including them against these images (not that it's the images fault)
[03:58] <len-1204> ailo, can you confirm something for me. I found that while qjackctl says it can't stop jack, if I restart qjackctl... on restart it knows jack is already stopped and is able to start jack. This seems to be a qjackctl problem.
[03:59] <ailo> len-1204: I would say it's the same bug
[04:00] <ailo> len-1204: there's a problem with how qjackctl controls jacdbus. We should take this up with the autor
[04:00] <ailo> author*
[04:00] <len-1204> Ya I figured that, but that fact that just restarting qjackctl fixes it says this is not jack.
[04:01] <ailo> len-1204: It's not jack. It's qjackctl
[04:01] <len-1204> Instead of erroring out it should just reset itself.
[04:03] <len-1204> ailo, nobody has done AMD64 tests?
[04:05] <ailo> len-1204: The bug? It's still assigned to "nobody"
[04:05] <len-1204> I mean beta testing. the test page sho
[04:05] <len-1204> ws no tests on amd64
[04:05] <ailo> I see
[04:06] <len-1204> just my 3 on i386
[04:06] <len-1204> I was going to add this bug there
[04:22] <len-1204> done.
[04:40] <ScottL> len-1204, ailo : i did the amd64 testing and reported
[04:40] <len-1204> Good
[05:07] <len-1204> ScottL, it seems that I did my reports in the wrong place ... I used the links in the irc title.
[05:08] <len-1204> I have now done other reports in the right (I hope ) place.
[09:43] <astraljava> Beta-2 images require testing, please help if you can! http://bit.ly/GPCUj0 and http://bit.ly/GNqXgt
[09:43] <astraljava> grrr
[09:44] <astraljava> Thanks for pointing the error out, len_!
[14:42] <len_> astraljava NP Scott said he had done reports but your link didn't point to it so I went looking.
[15:04] <astraljava> len_: Yeah, the tracker was updated, so those links were outdated.
[15:12] <len_> astraljava are we supposed to keep filling in more reports or update the ones already filled out?
[15:12] <len_> as bugs get fixed or we find more.
[15:20] <len_> holstein have you tried a new iso yet?
[15:20] <len_> it is looking much nicer, rt priv, new kernel nice backdrop...
[15:21] <holstein> len_: nah
[15:21] <holstein> im slammed!
[15:21] <holstein> a double today
[15:21] <holstein> then, im working for like 4 weeks straight almost
[15:21] <holstein> like 10+ shows a wekk
[15:21] <holstein> week*
[15:21] <len_> Sounds good ... I think
[15:21] <holstein> which is great actually
[15:21] <holstein> just busy
[15:22] <len_> I'm once a week just now. My day job is physically taxing
[15:24] <len_> 2015 that will be finished though.
[15:28] <len_> ScottL, astraljava ailo... et all. There has been some talk about the new kernel and the capability that can come from it. What settings can be achieved with it etc. It would be nice to have some place that is more hardware specific.
[15:28] <holstein> len_: you have one show a week?
[15:28] <holstein> like a steady thing?
[15:29] <len_> as I found with my netbook, -p64 makes things not work... -p128 is fine.
[15:29] <len_> Ya, volunteer though.
[15:29] <holstein> len_: thats cool.. steady is good!
[15:29] <len_> Its a church gig, but I enjoy it. pretty high energy and lots of room to improvise
[15:30] <holstein> sounds great... i usually avoid those because of the time commitment per dollat, and because they are typically early in the AM
[15:30] <holstein> dollar*
[15:31] <len_> Besides playing once is like practising five times
[15:31] <holstein> but, i have heard a few praise groups or whatever that i really enjoyed, and would have liked to have been a part of
[15:31] <holstein> len_: totally
[15:32] <len_> I play bass but mostly play around at home with guitar.
[15:34] <len_> I figure once I retire I will see if I can  get involved with something in the communities that can only be reached by boat.
[15:34] <len_> There are a lot of them just north of here.
[15:36] <holstein> nice
[15:37] <len_> holstein BTW, the ISOs live version are really close to an installed system. So a look at the live without installing is much quicker and easier.
[15:37] <len_> Time to go... bye now.
[15:39] <holstein> i know right?
[15:39] <holstein> i think its awesome live! 
[15:39] <holstein> len_: later
[16:21] <ScottL> meeting?
[16:21] <ScottL> anyone
[16:22] <knome> wut?
[16:22] <knome> :)
[16:24] <len_> ScottL I am just leaving unless it is right now ;-)
[16:25] <ScottL> nah, len_ , it's okay, i'm late for it anyway
[16:26] <ScottL> i forget if it is supposed to be 10am or 11am (my time)
[16:26] <ScottL> mainly i would like to talk to micahg or maybe knome about timing and what or can't be done at this point
[16:26] <len_> ScottL, with the beta 2 testing, how many times are we supposed to report? Are we to add to our reports as bugs are /fixed found?
[16:26] <knome> ScottL, you can go ahead :)=
[16:26] <ScottL> len_, the point of the milestone testing (i.e. the ones that the iso qa testing website emails us about) is to validate the image
[16:27] <len_> Ok, I have passed both live and install
[16:27] <ScottL> len_, if the image isn't any good then we can't really test throughout that period
[16:27] <ScottL> len_, great!  thanks :)
[16:27] <ScottL> we will continue testing and reporting bugs and fixing things as necessary
[16:27] <len_> So we have a pass for all 4 tests then
[16:27] <ScottL> aye, this is important
[16:27] <len_> Yup
[16:28] <ScottL> we show we have a good track record of not only *testing* them, but also having working images
[16:28] <ScottL> (with bugs perhaps, but the images are valid)
[16:28] <ScottL> knome, at this point there are a few items that i would still like to fix (partly due to the mad rush to get things in before beta2 freeze)
[16:29] <ScottL> knome, and i'm wondering what we would be able to accomplish
[16:29]  * ScottL is getting his notes from upstairs
[16:29] <len_> The two bugs are menu (minor) and qjackctl more major.
[16:29] <knome> ScottL, what kind of stuff is that?
[16:29] <knome> ScottL, trivial bugfixes should be fine...
[16:29] <len_> knome the menu is a filename change.
[16:29] <ScottL> len_, i agree, but i do expect to get the menu bug fixed, but i doubt we have time to resolve the qjackctl one (as it will probably include either some foundational changes or even upstream)
[16:30] <ScottL> but i could be wrong about that and it's a five minutes thing we can ourselves without even asking, but then again, maybe i'm wrong about being wrong which means i'm right
[16:31] <len_> ScottL as long as the "work around" is well known...
[16:31] <knome> i'm pretty sure you can fix the menu issue. report a bug, give a rationale why it should be fixed, upload a patch, subscribe the release team and optionally ping them at #ubuntu-release too
[16:32] <knome> ^ "upload a patch" meaning, upload it to the ubuntu bug
[16:33] <len_> bug 963498
[16:35] <len_> ScottL you can confirm it if needed
[16:36] <knome> FFe bugs should stay "new", until release team sets them as "triaged", meaning that you have the exception
[16:37] <len_> FFe = ?
[16:37] <knome> feature freeze exception
[16:37] <len_> OK
[16:37] <knome> or any freeze exceptions to that matter, so Fe bugs
[16:39] <ScottL> knome, len_ :  sorry, daughter is supposed to be cleaning room and i need to get involved :/
[16:39] <knome> np
[16:39] <ScottL> knome, would it be better to "fix" such bugs as a patch or just to fix the bzr code under ubuntustudio-dev ?
[16:40]  * ScottL would also like to aggregate a list of current bugs and determine which we want to try to address during B2
[16:41] <len_> Its ok I have to go anyway. I have probably added what I have today. Most of my thoughts are post beta anyway.
[16:41] <ScottL> len_, thanks again, you have been a HUGE help, no kidding
[16:41] <len_> thanks.
[16:41] <ScottL> knome, here is my list of things that i noticed and want to file bugs:
[16:41] <knome> ScottL, i suppose either works, as long as you don't push anything into the release before the exception ACK
[16:42] <ScottL> knome, i wouldn't have that authority becuase i can't upload to the repos from the bzr branch (well, not yet at least, presumably i am working towards that)
[16:42] <ScottL> however, i would like to push the fix to the bzr branch so i know it's there for whatever the next milestone or release or whatever
[16:42] <ScottL> okay, list:
[16:43] <ScottL> 1. no background image during installation when installing from starting menu
[16:43] <ScottL> 2. not sure why when installer begins it says "You may wish to _update this installer_"
[16:43] <knome> ScottL, yeah, uploading to a branch is fine i suppose, but be ready to provide a patch file is asked :)
[16:43] <ScottL> 3. uses xfce logo for partitioning setup during instllation
[16:43] <ScottL> 4. scrollbars during installation slideshow
[16:44] <ScottL> 5. menu is not the ubuntu studio menu
[16:44] <ScottL> ..
[16:44] <knome> ScottL, i thought the scrollbar issues were fixed, at least i didn't notice any today on amd64 desktop
[16:44] <ScottL> to be honest, i'm only really worried about #5 at this time, the rest might detract from a polished released but not major obstacles
[16:44] <ScottL> knome, i noticed it last night after i downloaded the mar 24th image
[16:44] <knome> hmmh.
[16:44] <ScottL> on amd64
[16:45] <ScottL> it almost seems like the image is causing to require the scroll bars
[16:45] <knome> weird. though i did text X, not US
[16:45] <knome> well yeah, that can be, but otoh, shouldn't happen
[16:45] <ScottL> heheh, yeah, i thought about testing xubuntu last night
[16:47] <ScottL> i'll fix the menu file name later today, update the bug, add [FFe] to it and subscribe the release team
[16:48] <ScottL> oh, i'd like to finally read what ailo, len_ , and astraljava where talking about and understand it
[16:48] <knome> ScottL, i don't think you should add the [FFe] yourself, if i've understood correctly
[16:49] <ScottL> meant to yesterday but family drug me out of the house more than i expected to
[16:49] <ScottL> knome, okay, are you suggesting that i just subscribe the release-team?
[16:49] <knome> ScottL, yes
[16:49] <knome> ScottL, and really, even if it's not "needed", pinging them at #ubuntu-release is usually helping a lot...
[16:50] <knome> ScottL, especially if you do that with nick highlight ;)
[16:51] <ScottL> aye, good advice :)  thanks knome 
[16:51] <ScottL> i need to address a few more issues around the house and then i'll do it
[16:51] <knome> np
[17:34] <astraljava> knome: Why shouldn't Scott add [FFe]?
[17:35] <knome> astraljava, i thought the release team adds that
[17:36] <astraljava> I always add it already when I file it.
[17:36] <astraljava> It's easier for them if it's there already, no need to edit the title.
[17:36] <astraljava> It's just like a tag, nothing more to it.
[17:36] <knome> k
[17:36]  * knome will remember that the next time
[17:37]  * astraljava notes the Xfce4 project not being big on documenting their dev process...
[17:37] <knome> heh
[17:37]  * knome notes that the xubuntu wikipages are wayy cleaner than 24h ago: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Cleanup
[17:39] <astraljava> I don't know how to read that page. Is the list for pages that need cleaning, or what?
[17:39] <astraljava> Err... wrong channel.
[17:39] <knome> huh? :P
[17:40] <ScottL> astraljava, what was that ailo and len and you were talking about yesterday?  the audio mixer in the panel?
[17:40] <ScottL> can you summarize it easily?
[17:41]  * ScottL will be back in about fifteen minutes and should start some studio work
[17:41] <astraljava> knome: That is Xubuntu-talk, so should happen on #xubuntu-devel, no? :)
[17:41] <knome> bleh
[17:42] <astraljava> ScottL: knome can fill you in on why they changed the mixer that the indicator plugin commands.
[17:42] <astraljava> ScottL: For much the same reason, Len wanted to change it too, for [us|US].
[17:43] <knome> ScottL, xfce4-mixer has some serious problems with PA. if, and, as we are going to use PA in the future, it's a good idea to migrate to pavucontrol now
[17:43] <knome> ScottL, we've been telling users to do that for a few releases already anyway
[17:50]  * astraljava wonders about the state of bug #961371, the upload has already happened, and it's only now triaged
[18:05] <ScottL> astraljava, we could use that one to fix the menu filename issue ;)
[18:06] <ScottL> astraljava, would you like to go ahead and make the change then for the pavucontrol/xfce-mixer plugin ?
[18:20] <astraljava> ScottL: I don't really care who does it, I was just asking for your opinion on it. Do you agree? You are the head of project, after all, so I didn't wanna make the change without consulting you first.
[18:33] <ScottL> astraljava, yes, i agree with that :) 
[18:33] <ScottL> i'm going to make changes to the menu filename now
[18:34]  * ScottL wonders should he use bug 961371 for the it or make another one
[18:51] <astraljava> ScottL: Yes, I was rather annoyed with the state of that bug just a while back.
[18:52] <astraljava> It's still being handled in LP, when in fact the package has already uploaded.
[18:52] <astraljava> already been*
[18:52] <scott-upstairs> i had forgotten about the one that len has filed, but found it and use it
[18:53] <scott-upstairs> bug #963498
[18:53] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, knome: do either of you know what is required to chagne xfce-mixer to pavucontrol?
[18:53]  * scott-upstairs thinks he does
[18:54] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, ailo, len_ :  was your thinking to replace the plugin in the panel with pavucontrol ?
[18:54] <scott-upstairs> if so i should wait to ping or subscribe the release-team then
[18:55] <scott-upstairs> (although i guess even if we are just removing the xfce-mixer plugin we should not ping/subscribe release-team yet)
[18:55] <scott-upstairs> okay, going out to mow grass for an hour or so
[18:57] <astraljava> scott-upstairs: No, the plugin is fine, but what it _controls_ would be changed.
[19:05] <ScottL> astraljava, oh, i haven't a clue on how to do that
[19:05] <ScottL> i was wondering if we could include that change as well
[19:06] <knome> ScottL, astraljava: if you need help with it, you should ask mr_pouit and/or ochosi, they know
[19:07] <astraljava> knome: I saw the discussion over on your channel, so I'll find the relevant changes. Thanks
[19:07] <astraljava> +!
[19:08] <knome> :)
[19:16] <ScottL> thanks astraljava :)
[19:19] <astraljava> ScottL: The only thing is that we're _really_ late in the cycle already. Are you sure you want the change to be done, still?
[19:20] <astraljava> Beta-2 has just been tested. The next AND final test is the final image.
[19:23] <astraljava> Umm... what is this? Why are ISO testing images updated every day?
[19:59] <knome> astraljava, i've heard they're switching to manual soon
[19:59] <knome> astraljava, there was so many changes that they would've needed to respin anyway
[20:11] <astraljava> knome: Ok, and they respan every image at the same time?
[20:16] <astraljava> It's rather frustrating, as this means we're gonna have to report against the new images _again_.
[20:18] <astraljava> ...unless there was a US-specific update that caused the image respin, in which case my frustration would be unfair. :)
[20:26] <ScottL> astraljava, we can wait until next cycle
[20:26] <ScottL> i thought it was going to be an easy update and aligned with the xubuntu was doing
[20:27] <ScottL> if it is going to cause a lot of trouble or get us unnecessary (and probably unwanted) attention, i say we just go forward the way it is then
[20:27] <ScottL> just through mowing, need to shower, and get a few things in town, i'll complete the menu update bug report (pinging release and subscribing them) then
[20:30] <astraljava> ScottL: Well, had we made the change prior to Beta-2 testing, I'd be more confident. But, like I said, your call. :)
[20:48] <ScottL> i'm good the way it is for now, i just thought it would be a low key (and easy) thing to get done, i'll it to my list for next cycle
[20:48] <ScottL> which i suppose we need to talk about sometime soon
[20:49] <ScottL> especially since uds blueprints should be opened to submission soon
[20:56] <astraljava> Yep, good idea.
[21:00] <knome> astraljava, as i've understood, they just haven't moved to "manual" yet.
[21:24] <astraljava> Right.
[21:30] <len_> DLs are slow today
[23:23] <len_> knome, just reading through the irc logs... re scroll bars... very hard to pinpoint. They show up once in a while... sometimes they then vanish... sometimes they never show up at all.
[23:23] <knome> yup
[23:23] <len_> Same image same machine 
[23:23] <len_> Prolly not worth going after right now.
[23:24] <knome> most probably not
[23:24] <len_> I think I even saw them on the ubuntu desk top iso.