[00:24] AHHHHHHH [00:24] marcoceppi jcastro SpamapS , it has finally clicked [00:25] wow, i went about this totally wrong ( IMHO not really, still gonna be a great ) [00:25] imbrandon: yes.. Tyler Durdon *doesn't exist*.. well done ;) [00:25] so its too late to shift gears for the charm i got for the contest, like i said its gonna be good but [00:25] still [00:25] lol [00:25] SpamapS: hahah [00:26] SpamapS: yea, some reason and i dunno why it did not click before now [00:26] but i've been looking at juju as a gimped replacemtnt to my processes i'm used to [00:26] and its not [00:27] its the glue to bring them all in as one, not replace them [00:27] and THAT just clicked [00:27] imbrandon: *ding ding* :) [00:27] yea i've been like totally doing this wrong in my head [00:27] lol [00:27] imbrandon: I think thats in large part our fault, because we haven't written more charms using existing config management. [00:28] i was sitting head watching a old hangout with jono and sabdfl [00:28] and it just hit me when he said somehting [00:28] yea [00:28] it seems like they are all kinda reinventing the wheel [00:28] so it kinda feels that way [00:28] but no i mean i kinda came in the stuff heaqd first too and bass ackwards [00:29] to be honest untill OMG burned down and i got with jorge on that for the first time in 2 years , i had be steering away from juju as a fad [00:29] so its my faiult too [00:29] :) [00:30] my marcoceppi and you proved it was worth looking into imho, not that you had to nor was even trying i bet [00:30] but you konw [00:30] anyhow i feel like shit tons better now [00:31] i like had this guilt on WTF am i doing this stuff over, and over [00:31] like it aws a not invented here syndrome [00:31] but its now [00:31] not* [00:31] its just marketed wrong to the old timers :) [00:32] ok back to your regualrly scheduled shows, i'll probably have alot more relevant questions form here on i hope [00:32] lol [00:33] wow and i REALLY need to give in and get a new keyboard tomarrow [00:33] this typo shit ios for the birds [00:34] oops /sorry ubotu if your looking ( and anyone else, slip-up ) [00:35] SpamapS: i ahvent quite figured out how to NOT deploy to aws yet though, whats the quick and dirty to deploy local, or got a doc page , scanned the wiki but not long [00:35] like i got it working going to a aws now, etc :) kinda working backwards [00:36] lol [00:36] imbrandon: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/provider-configuration-local.html [00:36] rockin , ty [00:37] enjoy the weekend ? i think i spent mine infront of a console ( not that i havent done that 1000000000 times over the years , goes with the teratory hehe ) [00:37] Its pouring outside [00:37] cold [00:37] ouch [00:37] console is keeping me warm :) [00:37] what part of the globe ? [00:37] LA [00:37] ahhh [00:37] as in, Los Angeles [00:38] right right [00:38] i assumed [00:38] its one of our 9 rainy days a year [00:38] LOL [00:38] yellow rain ? [00:38] wife hates it because now I have an excuse to sit on my ass and play with code :) [00:38] LOL [00:39] when i was married *shhh not divorcded due to any of the geek stuff* hehe anyhow we had a deal, like before dinner was my geek time [00:39] after was our time ;) [00:39] no matter what day of the week [00:39] so it worked out pretty well [00:40] yeah thats mostly how it works here too [00:41] and thankfully , i;ve been fortunate enough to been high enough on the food chain not to pull pager duty since i was marrie ( and after ) [00:41] I kind of miss some aspects of pager duty [00:41] except for the rare occasion where the world really does blow up [00:42] yea i like some things about it, esp if it was for some of the companies i worked for later ( as in nowish ) but early on when i had to do it it sucked [00:42] Interesting.. this supply_drop thing is a bit like juju.. just defining puppet for each server, not having a centralized puppet master http://www.braintreepayments.com/devblog/decentralize-your-devops-with-masterless-puppet-and-supply-drop [00:42] and not the act but the job part ,had it been another firm prob would have been ok [00:42] * SpamapS hopes one day that juju becomes decentralized [00:43] ZK is cool but it feels like we could just move all that to each node's agent and use 0mq to pass data between nodes. [00:43] yea thats what i was wanting to hear earlier [00:43] when asking about it [00:43] if you got a sec look at the "brew" distro model [00:43] IMHO that would be PERFECT for charms [00:43] well I'm not talking about the repositories [00:43] infact it kinda is charms [00:43] only for osx [00:43] at a lower level, how its architecture actually works [00:43] all like apt-fast [00:43] I don't think we actually need machine 0 [00:43] or something [00:44] yea, the first itteration of things your never completely happy with [00:44] imbrandon: no, brew is just packaging. [00:44] no matter what it is [00:44] well kinda [00:44] it was [00:44] its grown to more [00:44] brew doesn't define how two services talk over the network does it? [00:44] it has taps now and recipies and binary and build distro [00:45] sure but it can via recepies [00:45] and some of the nodejs recepies do [00:45] and now that its distrubted taps i think more will pop up like that [00:46] i mean as for as technical a recipe and a install hook are about the same [00:46] would not take musch for the two to become feature parity [00:46] both ways [00:47] recipies are just make files btw, but they dont have to be "make" infact most are rake *.rb files [00:47] but php or sh or whatever like charms [00:47] so really you can make them do whatever [00:47] imbrandon: interesting.. so there's a uniform way to say "when you ask for X, make it talk to Y on another box this way" ? [00:47] its geared more to the desktop [00:47] but really the ideas are very very similar [00:48] imbrandon: because thats the thing I haven't seen any other system do yet. [00:48] many enable it [00:48] SpamapS: well almost , i dont think there is a formal api for te network part BUT the groundwork is ther and you CAN do it [00:48] but none of them make it a 1st class citizen [00:48] i just dont think its part of the apis [00:48] right [00:48] yeah you can do anything you do with juju with chef, puppet, cfengine, or your own shell scripts... [00:49] but they don't encapsulate you, so it makes portability a real problem [00:49] right , but i think brew is the closest to actually being the same . and half ass the same market, welll no but yes [00:49] * SpamapS looking at brew recipes now [00:49] well i notice brew more and more growing into that thinking though [00:50] and it would not take much for it to [00:50] imbrandon: I'm skeptical because I doubt OS X would have something for defining two way config channels, but perhaps the same result can come from some other means of encapsulation. [00:50] get all the way there VS say a ant script or chef [00:50] why do you say that ? [00:50] osx server does [00:50] like now [00:51] its alot more limited but it does do it in a limited scope and officially [00:51] imbrandon: did you see what I did with the peer relationship with omg? thats very easy in puppet or chef.. but there are so many ways to do it, you can't really *share* them outside an environment. [00:51] right [00:52] imbrandon: os x server has relations? [00:52] yea, see in that sense i can see brew adboping the stuff to do that where as chef wont, but osx server.app does now commercially [00:52] or rather, something like it? [00:52] yup [00:52] show me [00:52] yea forget what its called exactly [00:52] but like my mini here [00:52] I'm always looking for vindication of the juju idea... sometimes I wonder if we're not a little crazy with it :) [00:52] i install server.app and make it a server [00:52] then install any number of servers on the lan [00:53] it will auto pick them up and ask abourt config things like ldap slaves and myswl slave and mx host [00:53] and distcc [00:53] all predefined OR automagic [00:53] and will do it over wan too if predefined [00:54] nah [00:54] apple does it ( the juju idea ) [00:54] the thing about apple is [00:54] imbrandon: that rendevouz IIRC [00:54] its not just limited to their servers [00:54] its limited to a very small subset of theior apps on their servers [00:54] nah [00:54] much more than bonjour [00:54] not just discovery [00:55] i mean full on config [00:55] and preconfig [00:55] like the hooks [00:55] I want to see where the docs are for exposing and sharing this config data. It sounds fascinating. [00:55] like i can fire up server.app and tell it that the next 3 distcc nodes use blah.config [00:55] and then those when/if join will use it [00:55] etc [00:55] sure let me look the proper name up [00:56] imbrandon: I'm digging too. [00:56] it builds a ton on bonjour and ldap [00:56] but there is some propitary jiunk in there [00:56] junk* [00:56] i only have 10.8 installed for server.app and its very very very beta right now [00:57] so i only fire it up when needed [00:57] lol [00:58] can't find anything... apple has hidden this well ;) [00:58] one sec [00:58] and hell yea they hid all iinda shit well goto opensource.apple.com sometimer [00:58] heh [00:58] let me take a screenshot [00:58] one sec [00:58] its not the full story but will get ya looking [01:00] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/461492/10.8server.app.png [01:00] ok there we go [01:01] cant get it to load the profile manager there as i said 10.8 is still supper buggy as shit [01:01] but the profuile manage is not like ldap profile its app and server config profile [01:01] and more than like AD [01:01] cuz you dont have to join [01:02] and there is subgroups [01:02] etc [01:02] and the prepare there in the back [01:02] with the (1) alert indicator [01:02] on the apple configuratorr [01:02] thats the "make a charm" tool [01:03] but see those apps listed on the left , those are the only apps you can interact with it like that [01:03] its very limited [01:03] nmot open like juju or brew [01:04] and the supervise in the back is more like the AD user and machine policys [01:04] and the assign in the back is like assign corp assets to a employee thingy [01:04] but you can remote wipe and lock down if stolen etc [01:05] anyhow kinda pisses me off though 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 server was the shit,but and 10.7 and 10.8 are really just an "app" [01:06] liek you have all the underlying stuff alreaddy insatlled and you get a 50mb gui app from the app store for 10.7 and 10.8 "server" [01:06] like atleast 10.6 even though apache and such is on 10.6 not ALL of the server apps are there [01:07] like BIND and iCal servers etc [01:07] but they are now, and you buy a management app [01:07] lol [01:08] but yea, they intelegently knwo about each other , and more than anycast dns ;) [01:08] i actually forgot the port but there is a dedicated mgmt port [01:08] on the lan they all talk over [01:08] as well as udp [01:09] ahh and see like pushing out the time machine configs [01:09] forgot about that too [01:10] and these arent AD boxes, like i said other macbook pros and minis on my lan [01:10] etc [01:10] not only just find the time machine, thats bonjour , but config the encryption passwd and times to run [01:11] etc [01:11] i thouhgt it was tied to my apple ID [01:11] but then i used like the new ability to install osx legally in ESX [01:12] and it did it to with no apple id [01:12] it may still be the icloud ports iirc now [01:12] but yea not account [01:12] and really even if it did thats ok [01:12] needs glue somewhere [01:13] might as well be my apple id, a.k.a launchpad id [01:14] SpamapS: you run apple hardware right, i'll make ya a deal, i'll try full ubnutu on this mini to try the 4x video and you can use my apple developer account to get a copy of server and try it out [01:14] i'm legally entitled to put it on 100 machines [01:15] if they are associated with me, and you work on the same OS i do so i;d say thats associated :) [01:15] just signup for an apple id if you dont have one ( same as itunes etc SSO ) and i can provision it to your account i am pretty sure for you to download [01:16] as well as IOS early etc [01:16] perk of my last job i got ios and mac os paid developers for the app stores :) [01:16] developer access* [01:17] anyhow, then you can see first hand, and as long as its on apple hardware it should install in vmware no problem [01:17] it checks a tpm chip or something for the hardware [01:17] but them moves right along as long as its 10.7 or 10.8 [01:18] oh on a ubuntun host [01:18] i ment to add [01:19] gah, spending way too much time on this, back to my charm [01:19] lol [01:20] gotta make the new hotness good, not the shiney current stuff [01:21] SpamapS: what about like say vsphere too, relation is kinda there , abeit via the central console [01:21] bah [01:22] back to juju [01:26] <_mup_> juju/unit-stop r425 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com [01:26] <_mup_> merge trunk [01:37] goal next week: clean up OMG PHP and JS code;Polish qickdrop drupal charm; and get juju tools working on OSX!! [01:37] gonna be a busy week, lol === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [07:56] morning all === TheMue_ is now known as TheMue === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [08:41] goood morning juju beees [08:46] SpamapS: you know if nick is gonna finish his drupal charm or [08:46] would it be worth to try to tag him and snag it and merge what i have [08:46] mine is a toaly seperate name, but its not plain drupal either, and thats not used [08:46] its pressflow [08:46] hrm [08:47] yea i'm gonna keep em seperate and if nick dont finish his i'll juat fixish it too, let em co-exist [08:49] SpamapS: btw your sugestion for drush from the archive on his bug really isnt feasable, as its to old to work with the current drupal, but there is an alternative pear chan that is https [08:49] so that will work out [09:07] bbcmicrocomputer, looking at your hive charm now [09:12] jamespage: ok, thanks [09:13] jamespage: I did have a request for the Hive package you own [09:13] jamespage: can we get the HWI web interface included in that? [09:13] bbcmicrocomputer, I should think so yes [09:13] I had that on my list [09:13] jamespage: ah ok, great! [09:14] could you raised a bug at http://launchpad.net/hadoop-ubuntu-packages pls - that way I won't forget [09:14] jamespage: sure, np [09:14] bbcmicrocomputer, of course you could take a punt at it yourself [09:14] the packaging branches are under http://launchpad.net/~hadoop-ubuntu [09:15] bbcmicrocomputer, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Hadoop [09:16] bbcmicrocomputer, charm rocks BTW [09:16] how easy does this make stuff.... :-) [09:16] jamespage: very :) [09:17] jamespage: yes, it would be a good one to fix so I might give it a go when not busy [09:17] jamespage: thanks! [09:18] bbcmicrocomputer, nice README as well [09:18] jamespage: never used Hive before, it's actually not a bad solution [09:18] we should raise bugs on the mysql charm to get those features added as config [09:18] jamespage: all based on your work ;) [09:18] lol [09:18] jamespage: sure, will raise the MySQL bugs [09:19] I need todo the same for the haproxy one [09:19] I wanted to use it to front a cluster of hbase REST/avro/thrift servers [09:19] but its httpchk is a bit to in-depth ATM [09:19] jamespage: that would be cool [09:31] bbcmicrocomputer, its a bit http centric ATM [09:42] Do settings applied to a relationship with 'relation-set' persist for other new nodes that join the relationship? [09:44] <_mup_> Bug #965101 was filed: The MAAS provider does not raise an exception when get_machines(...) does not find the requested machines. < https://launchpad.net/bugs/965101 > [09:45] e.g. if the MySQL charm sets DB credentials when it creates a DB with 'relation-set', and then a new unit is deployed for the service, are those credentials supposed to be available to the new unit, or is the MySQL charm supposed to set them in its 'db-relation-joined' hook again? === asavu_ is now known as asavu [09:55] bbcmicrocomputer, I think so yes [09:55] i.e. they should already be avaliable - its set at the service level not the service unit level [09:56] might be wrong [09:56] jamespage: ok thanks [10:05] bbcmicrocomputer, one though on the hive charm - it would be nice to be able to switch in a metastore without having to re-create everything [10:05] i.e. re-use the same mysql database [10:05] is that possible? [10:05] I think the charm supports it [10:05] mysql that is [10:06] jamespage: that's what I'm not sure of [10:06] bbcmicrocomputer, I think the openstack charms do this - you might need to use the db-admin interface I think [10:07] jamespage: I thought when I added in another metastore the DB credentials on the relationship weren't given to the new unit, but that sounds wrong from a design point of view, so it might be me [10:07] jamespage: I'll have a look === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [10:33] <_mup_> Bug #965138 was filed: Juju concatenates the full API endpoint URL when it gets absolute paths from the MAAS api. < https://launchpad.net/bugs/965138 > [12:02] dear juju-users and devs, have you had a look at cdist already? [http://www.nico.schottelius.org/software/cdist/] it does a similar job on a pretty straight forward level === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [12:31] ok so inside the /hook/somehook script how would i refrer to something in /files/blah/file , e.g. whats the PWD , the script dir or ??? relitive work ? read(../files/blah/file) [12:35] juju make me some breakfast [12:43] telmich, i've looked at cdist previously, its targeted at something a bit different than juju [12:43] telmich, cdist is a configuration management tool, juju is service orchestration and deployment. [12:44] hazmat: hrm, it depends on how far you define service orchestration: cdist aims to do that job as well, the cut there is at the deployment stage [12:44] telmich, orchestration sits above config management, and within juju your free to use any tool you'd like to effect config management on the system, including cdist [12:44] telmich, so how does cdist connect two different services? [12:45] i.e. cdist is being used for setting up webservers with rails running [12:45] running on two different machines [12:45] I understand, that's a bit a different approach [12:45] how does juju do that? [12:46] well and the cut really isnt there either, we used its to deply too on OMG lately [12:46] juju that is [12:46] btw, the reason why I was mentioning cdist in here is because I thought it may be valuable as a supporting tool [12:46] given its not ideal at the moment it can certanly do it [12:47] telmich: yea possibly , like phone and ant kinda , same kinda suport roll [12:47] telmich, juju is designed for running interconnected services over a cluster of machines from the ground up.. the juju docs go into more details https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/about.html [12:47] phing* [12:47] telmich, i agree cdist is a useful tool for effecting changes on a machine, in much the same way that other configuration management tools like puppet are [12:47] at that level juju is agnostic to what a charm author chooses to use [12:48] yea but i see what he is getting at kinda, it could be used by juju to push code to all the inder connected nodes of a type that needed them [12:48] but yea [12:48] it could be anything ant or phone or cdimg [12:48] or whatever [12:48] phing* [12:48] hazmat: ackI believe that higher level tools (like juju) could make use of CM tools like cdist, not sure about that though [12:48] if i keep typing phone its gonna become one:) [12:48] imbrandon: exactly [12:49] telmich: sure thats alrady part of the work flow then [12:49] telmich: we're just not tied to one tool though [12:49] the dev can decide [12:49] or devop [12:50] for inclusion into a 'blessed'/vetted distribution of charms.. there are some policies in place.. but juju also incorporates the notion of ppa without such policies to allow for charm authors to experiment and use whatever tool their comfortable with, and still allow their charm to be consumed by other users. [12:50] fits alot better into existing systems that way, the majority of the users IMHO wont be starting from scratch, but be iterating and working this in [12:50] and alrady have tools [12:50] telmich, indeed there are some charms that use puppet to install their configuration [12:51] hazmat: alright :-) [12:51] and i'm sure there will be some that use cdist [13:10] i still want juju to make me breakfast [13:23] Is there an example of an OpenStack stanza so juju can deploy to an OpenStack Compute cloud? [13:58] <_mup_> juju/repository-broken-charms r478 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com [13:58] <_mup_> merge trunk === hspencer is now known as hspencer[afk] [14:10] jcastro: m_3: you guys available this morning for a quick chat about Hadoopworld / Stratus? [14:17] arosales, I am! [14:18] jcastro: right on, thanks. Talk to you in a bit then === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [14:59] imbrandon: sorry I disappeared on you... Sundays and all. ;) [14:59] imbrandon: anyway, re the apple stuff.. I'll keep looking into it. Interop or at least some idea-theft would be good. :) [15:00] no worries [15:00] heh yea [15:00] imbrandon: and re drush not working with current drupal.. WTF drupal! isn't drush supposed to be the way to get drupal? And they break the backend that quickly? [15:00] amatures immatate, geniouses steal ? [15:00] lol [15:01] well its not [15:01] its more the fact that drush was borken with newer php [15:01] then drupal [15:01] newer php, like, 5.3.6 ? [15:01] drush is still very very young like in that sense, they iterate very very fast [15:01] yea, lol [15:02] So yet another thing that should not be in the archive. :-P [15:02] actually i think its a mix between 5.3.6 and 5.3.8 [15:02] * SpamapS thinks we've been rushing things into the archive [15:02] 3.8 is whats on mamp [15:02] and it breaks someone if both are used on same deal, or something, anyhow i would need to go look up the bugs again [15:03] well there was no way to know drush shouldne t have been [15:03] it was rock solid for monthsn [15:03] even a year or so [15:03] then suddenly like a flurry of releases came [15:03] all fixing and breaking major things [15:03] <_mup_> juju/repository-broken-charms r479 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com [15:03] <_mup_> add metadata error [15:03] like in 3 months [15:04] i think they had a change of leadership or something, it smelled of that [15:04] its just now kinda slowing back to a managheable pasce [15:04] pace* [15:04] imbrandon: well either way, why can't older drush's download newer drupals? [15:05] i dont rember the exacltym but instal from the archive and run "sruah status" i know its imediate obvious [15:05] drush status [15:05] like it break spectacular [15:05] but what i was saying is they mirror on github that has https [15:06] sooo it sould not be a big deal [15:06] just to grab from there instead [15:06] but yea i dont think any pear or pecl modules should be in the archive IMHO , not just drush [15:06] SpamapS: is there documentation for deploying _on_ openstack using Juju? [15:08] and i know stuff is crazy as heck right now , but its a standing offer with the access to my apple dev account software ( legitly ) whenever , month or 6 months from now [15:08] just to inspect the competition :) [15:08] marcoceppi: there's an askubuntu question/answer about it [15:08] Huh, must have missed it [15:09] marcoceppi: basically you need to set the ec2-uri, s3-uri, default-image-id, and probably default-instance-type ... [15:09] i need more points over there, i should spend a evenincg doing ask [15:09] that is.. until they break those default-* things and then I don't know how its going to work. [15:09] SpamapS: cool, I just found it: http://askubuntu.com/questions/94150/how-do-i-use-openstack-and-keystone-with-juju [15:09] (I say they because I am against removing them... but others are against keeping them... hence.. "they") [15:10] is there a way to keep them as a "module" per se , like add on-ish [15:10] not really a module [15:10] imbrandon: yeah github https would probably be the preferred option [15:10] yea that was the jest of the whole thing [15:11] imbrandon: I believe they'll be kept until a better solution is found [15:11] was github https [15:11] there is actually a ton of official mirrors on github for most things i found [15:11] How hard would it be to add another provider to the setup? Would it be pertinent to add prominent cloud services as different types (instead of ec2, have a generic eucalyptus type, hp-cloud type, etc) [15:11] if ya dig a bit [15:12] marcoceppi: i was wondering about zend's phpcloud.com myself, as i actually curreent use them [15:12] and they are openstack / php fabric [15:27] marcoceppi: like flavors of the ec2 provider? Not a bad idea (note that hp's cloud does not expose the EC2 API of openstack) [15:27] or at least, so I've been told [15:28] Ah, that's what I was trying to play around with [15:29] I have to think an OSAPI provider will appear ... one of the nova founders approached me about wanting to write one. [15:34] kinda like google storage uses the openstack s3 stuff but goggle app engine dont [15:35] in any way iirc [15:35] its funny you hit a google storage bugket and it even says in the xml its amazon, i guess not to break the tools or something is all i can figure [15:36] http://g.pixeldrop.net/ <-- thats a google storage bucket [15:37] but xml namespace to aws still [15:37] so i guess its only a namespace [15:40] imbrandon: yeah its just for api equality [15:40] <_mup_> juju/relation-id-option r500 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com [15:40] <_mup_> Initial commit [15:41] SpamapS: they seem to provide endpoints. I'm going to try to bootstrap an env on their hp cloud [15:41] it would be nice if app engine was ec2 compatable and vice versa [15:41] * marcoceppi will then self-document [15:41] imbrandon: that wouldn't make any sense at all though [15:42]