=== _Marcus|NotHere is now known as _Marcus [11:13] Good morning [11:13] Anyone else having trouble with doing an update on a natty machine [11:14] seems it just sits there and hangs trying to find stuff [11:20] Ah, it appears it's Google that's having trouble. [11:20] Wonder why that is [11:55] http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022251.do <- Thoughts? [12:00] have you read all of your other books? [12:02] the book is on my wishlist as something to check out. 90 pages, who knows though [12:03] no reviews yet I've seen [12:04] brousch: No [12:04] brousch: Now go away. :) [12:04] then i say don't buy it [12:04] these are my thoughts [12:04] brousch: Thank you for being my Jiminy Cricket [12:05] until you've read all of your previous purchased books, you are banned from buying any new ones [12:06] brousch: Now you're just being mean. [12:06] discipline! [12:07] meh, that's crazy talk [12:07] interests wane and flow, you need to keep reading and allow yourself to not get locked down/stop reading because you don't feel like the one thing you've got left [12:08] this doesn't look good http://paste.mitechie.com/show/588/ [12:15] I guess if you're a xubuntu user that might look sucky [12:15] but if it's a real thing there's got to be more than one person behind it [12:15] another leader moves on, it happens [12:15] Yeah, I saw that [12:19] unless that new leader is an a-hole [12:56] good morning [12:57] when did vmware player add support for creating new VM? that is totally sweet. [12:57] years ago [12:58] how are you using vmware player? that only runs on windows and linux [12:58] on windows. [12:58] i used it on windows last night. [12:58] i have a windows PC at home for playing Starcraft2 [13:01] rick_h: you see this? http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyramid_appengine/ [13:02] I've got to try pyramid [13:02] django is so tiny and simple, seems like a framework should do more for me ;) [13:02] that's what all the django add-ons are for [13:03] yeah, I need to find which ones are good and worth using [13:03] http://djangopackages.com/ [13:03] list and ratings [13:04] ty [13:04] brousch++ [13:05] brousch: yea, saw that [13:06] meh, frameworks should be small/not do too much for you [13:07] fuk that. [13:07] i want a framework to do everything for me. [13:07] it should read my mind and know exactly how and what i want. [13:07] and when it can't, it should let me do it all and stay the fuck out of my way [13:07] yea, that's what gets you into trouble with in inflexibility [13:07] heh, but of course :) [13:07] no way, not me. i don't. [13:08] its all just fancy toString()... it should help me lots [13:34] snap-l: http://blog.makezine.com/2012/03/27/oreillymake-microcontroller-ebooks-and-videos-50-off-through-march-30/ [13:40] Yeah, I saw that [13:53] http://www.anchor.com.au/blog/2012/03/bugfixing-the-in-kernel-megaraid_sas-driver-from-crash-to-patch/ sweet [14:00] crap that like makes me realize I'm an idiot. I could never have gotten that crap figured out [14:03] rick_h: It's just knowing where to look [14:03] I think you could diagnose something like this if you had someone telling you what tools to use [14:05] you could. [14:05] it took them weeks working on it full time. [14:05] i knwo I could [14:05] i might have doubted myself in teh past, but after the past few months, no more. [14:06] Yeah, I think that's the biggest part: getting over the self-doubt [14:06] I mean, if it's between you getting a full night's sleep, or getting paged because the machine fell over, i think you'd move mountains. [14:08] haha, that too. [14:26] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8980735/how-can-i-verify-column-data-types-in-the-sqlalchemy-orm <- SQL Alchemy is awesome. That is all [14:27] Not sure I'm going to implement it, but it's nice to know it's there. [14:34] snap-l: interceptors are always nice :) [15:35] * snap-l is about to build a time machine to eradicate Excel from the timeline [15:35] that would be a great use of said time machine [15:36] I'll need some funding [15:36] and a pass on the laws of physics [15:36] but otherwise, it's completely do-able. [15:37] if not Excel, then Lotus? Seems just as bad IMO [15:37] Milyardo: I don't receive Lotus 123 sheets on a weekly basis [15:37] snap-l: i do [15:37] brousch: Oh that sucks [15:37] Has Lotus 123 adopted ODF? [15:38] maybe if you kill the first spreadsheet no others will be created [15:38] hell no. this is lotus 1-2-3 for win3.1 [15:38] Hm, I need to be careful, though [15:38] If I kill off Excel, then ODF may never be born [15:38] tricky [15:38] maybe win95 [15:39] brousch: What the hell? Are you dealing with lawyers? [15:39] * snap-l has never seen a Lotus 123 sheet in the wild after 2003. [15:39] no, i have one user with 2 decades invested in specialised lotus spreadsheets [15:39] brousch: You have my permission to use the time machine to alter his timeline [15:40] what???? 20 years of lotus spreadsheets? [15:40] amazing [15:40] I mean, I can see using some newer Lotus bastardization of Open Office [15:40] but 1-2-3 is just... blech [15:42] yeah, the only thing that can extract info from it is excel [15:42] and that can't be good either [15:43] it even runs on win7 [15:44] 123, or Excel's import of 123? [15:46] Lotus 1-2-3 Release 5 for Windows [15:47] i pulled the floppy disks out to get the version right. the rubberband around them disintigrated [15:51] ODF can DIAF [15:51] XLSX for life yo. [15:52] XLSX can DAIF [15:53] LaTeX for life yo. [15:53] jrwren: trollbait. [15:55] i do love LaTeX [15:55] snap-l: i'm keeping up with you :) [15:55] duly noted. [15:56] i do wish freeform spreadsheet wasn't as popular [15:56] and that more programmed sheets like Improv would have caught on. [15:57] popular? Shouldn't be allowed. [15:58] i remember getting Improv within minutes of first using it. then traditional spreadsheets rottd my brain [15:58] now I can't figure out numbers ;( [16:00] Once visicalc hit the scene, I think we were all doomed. [16:00] and once people equated Excel with databases, that was the end of it. [16:01] "Look, it has rws and columns like you programming geeks want. Now leave me alone while I crunch my data" [16:05] If not for spreadsheets, maybe we'd RDBMS's wouldn't have as prevelent as they are now [16:05] snap-l: it is scary [16:05] maybe we'd actually use object oriented ones instead [16:06] Milyardo: you're kidding yourself. :) [16:07] zope is still alive [16:07] Me:"You know LDAP is a database too". Colleague: "False. You can't use SQL on it." [16:07] /facepalm [16:08] Milyardo: Had they not created spreadsheets, we'd be buried in little one-off BASIC programs with DATA statements trying hard to perform SUM functions [16:08] Milyardo: Exactly. [16:18] CSV is a database too [16:18] spreadsheets might be databases too, depending on what is in them. [16:19] define "database" [16:19] the base of which data is launched [16:19] text book definition. [16:19] launched? [16:19] snap-l: thanks. So based on that, I think you'll all full of it [16:19] define launched in that context :) [16:20] :) [16:20] I'll go with Elmasri and Navathe's definition [16:24] i looked it up and here is the def. [16:24] Collection of related data [16:24] so we are not full of it. [16:24] we are pedants [16:25] if you mean relational database system, then say so [16:25] Define data, please [16:25] I have an hour to kill [16:27] its a great question. [16:27] i studied it very breifly [16:28] http://jmcsweeney.co.uk/computing/m150/differences.php [16:28] dictionary def for data is fine too [16:40] man I feel like it's been ages since I've been on irc [16:41] It has been [16:41] CHC tonight, early edition. [16:43] woot! [16:43] Also, of note: October 31st is CHC early edition. :) [16:44] I think it'll be starting a little later [16:45] wish I could, it's Emily's birthday today though. [16:45] happy birthday! [16:45] What could be better than hanging out with a bunch of guys at a coffeeshop for your birthday? [16:46] hah, something tells me that selling point might not work as well on her as on me. [16:46] I do need to go next week because I need to brainwash a few people to help me test a few juju things. [17:21] How can XCode even be considered functional, what is this [17:22] How more difficult can it be to include a static library from another project on the same workspace [17:22] that's like the simplest possible thing an IDE can do [17:23] iOS dev or MacOSX dev ? [17:24] i know how to include a static lib, but I couldn't describe it to you. [17:24] iOS as a target for this particular project [17:36] seriously, how do I get rid of this ugly black bar at the top of my gcalendar? [17:37] http://code.google.com/p/minimalist-google-calendar/ [17:37] ok, for Fx not Chrome ;) [17:37] :) [17:39] also seriously, Fx nightly is awesome lately. Especially with the new pdf.js integration [17:39] meh, pdf reader built in has been nice in chrome for a while. [17:39] greg-g: embrace the black bar. it is your friend [17:39] but yea, I do like the new firefox and looking forward to helping Blazeix get the extension going/tested so I can use it more [17:39] rick_h: doesn't that just use gdocs as the backend? [17:39] greg-g: no, it's got a native pdf reader in chrome [17:40] oh, I tohught it just overlayed the gdocs stuff. I like in-browser/native/not using other's servers to read simple pdfs better, so that's cool. [17:40] brousch: :P [17:40] yea, so I actually use chrome as my pdf reader on my system usually [17:40] huh [17:40] google-chrome xx.pdf [17:41] vs evince/xpdf [17:41] Blergh [17:41] evince is good for 99% of the PDFs om my machine [17:41] there's only a handful that it really can't handle [17:42] yeah, I don't mind evince. But for docs I want to be both digital-only and highlighted, I use Mendeley (I know I know, proprietary) [17:42] my issues with evince is the gnome requirements/hooks in teh backend [17:42] chrome print works better for me and it's already opened so faster [17:42] greg-g: You have vastly different needs for PDFs tham most of us [17:43] It was apparent when I read your eBook article that you're looking to replace journals / textbooks and not just tech books [17:43] Which, yeah, you're going to want something other than evince. ;) [17:44] rick_h: Bah. :) [17:45] snap-l: yeah, I want to mark the shit up of my text-based information conveyers :) [17:45] I do "close readings" or whatever the hip english students say nowadays [17:45] What the hell is that? [17:46] interacting with the text. marking it up, underlining, making notes, circling, etc etc [17:46] greg-g: So, doodling. [17:46] heh, and this is why he calls it 'close reading' [17:46] sounds much better than 'doodling' [17:50] i thought i saw some apps like that for android [17:50] you can read and mark-up a pdf, search and such [17:53] i <3 dead trees [17:53] what greg-g is really saying is that he is into scrapbooking [17:53] the only good tree is a dead tree! [17:53] pasting doilies onto pages. [18:01] re: "so doodling" (sorry, Rowan/Carrie came in the room) no. instead of writing up notes in a separate document like "this quote on page whatever is good" or "I disagree with this point he makes here because..." I put it in the actual book so it is contextualized. [18:01] haha, re scrapbooking [18:09] ugh, I really want to get on the bike, but 30+mph wind gusts...trying to convince me not to go [18:10] rick_h: and its COLD ain't it? [18:10] whoose going to penguicon? and why? [18:10] jrwren: close to 60, not bad [18:10] oh, not bad at all [18:10] I'm going because I'm talking and because my wife is heading out of town with the boy nullspace [18:11] jrwren: but I never enjoy riding in the wind...but haven't been out due to my post-pycon flu and want to try out the clip in shoes [18:12] rick_h: I don't understand why your paying to talk about something... don't you usually get in free if your adding value to the concvention [18:12] nullspace: well it all depends. I've seen it both ways. [18:13] I'm paying to speak because I like to complain on the tech track so I can yell more about how it sucks if I'm in it :) [18:13] I tried the staff route to complain, that didn't work at all [18:13] well I figure if I don't try to help I can't whine, so now I reserve my whining privelages [18:14] All Whines Reserved [18:14] exactly! [18:14] :) [18:14] and snap-l can't fuss at me [18:14] I love that [18:14] I prefer a reserve wine [18:14] I might have to use that somewhere [18:15] hrmm, now to try to figure out why my living room outlets aren't working :/ (yes, already tried the breakers) [18:15] oops [18:15] one of them have a gfi outlet? [18:15] I can understand why the rest of the tracks would require the speaker to pay because it's a venue for them to hock their wares and books they wrote [18:15] yeah, after that I'm kind of stuck, they aren't those fancy outlet-with-breaker-in-them things [18:15] doh [18:16] yea, I've been caught by a stray outlet on the loop that had the break in there [18:16] spare bathroom on living room and the bathroom went taking the living room with it [18:17] I had somethign similar when the outlet behind the fridge was a gfi in a line of gfis, the gfi behind the fridge tripped, major pain in the ass [18:17] hrmmm [18:17] lemme go check other rooms [18:17] one gfi per line adn it shoudl be the first outlet in the line from the breaker [18:18] any more and it's not up to code [18:18] rick_h: i'm with you. wind SUCKS [18:18] well, tailwind is nice. [18:19] but you never get tailwind the whole ride. [18:19] yea, but I'll be doing a nice square with it [18:19] rick_h: I think what might change their mind is if they can't fill out the tech track because no one wants to pay to do what equates to work [18:20] nullspace: yea, I'll be plugging bookie and I've got ribbons to hand out to ask for invites and such [18:20] so I'll be doing some pub I guess, and it's not that $$ [18:20] and if I suck, then I don't feel bad :P [18:21] ha [18:21] nullspace: I've paid to go because I like Penguicon, and I want it to continue. [18:21] And yes, I'm speaking [18:22] Doing at least three events at Penguicon, and not worrying about asking for the reduced rate. [18:22] I like the promise of penguicon, btu the inner circle party of the staff and their draconian methods have got to go [18:22] its a volonteer conference, yow ill get out of it what you pu tinto it. [18:22] bingo [18:22] its not like people are making $$$ running the conference. if they were, then i would have a different attitude. [18:22] well crap, can't find anything [18:22] nullspace: I don't know the particulars of the conference insies, nor do I care to [18:23] greg-g: hmm, then might be in for some fun [18:23] Whatever beef you have with them is between you and them. [18:23] snap-l: you got a taste of it one year, completely unorganized [18:23] Yes, and I still return [18:23] because frankly it's not worth holding a grudge [18:24] and the conference itself is more important to me for what I get out of it [18:25] it's had good years and bad years for sure. [18:25] I don't seem to learn much except one-on-one with my peers [18:25] you guys are what make it awesome [18:25] well come to my talk and I'll try to learn you some JS :) [18:25] hey now [18:25] hallway talks rule :) [18:26] I still haven't registered a talk this year, but I did buy my pass. [18:26] that's uncalled for [18:26] I've got to start building my audience early [18:26] Last year I got the reduced rate w/ 3 talks but that was too much I think. [18:26] And we have the release party in a separate room, which should be awesome [18:27] pro-rated beer [18:27] what? I'm just saying that you can learn outside of one-one by attending my talk. I didn't get into anything else. [18:27] snap-l: oh that's cool. the whole release party in the bar thing hasn't been the best the last two years [18:27] rick_h: count me in [18:27] we can talk carpentry if we run of things to talk about [18:29] I think I want to give a tal or two, need to hash it out a bit more, when does the CFP end [18:29] i think it is the weekend of my daughters bday. [18:29] or my dads. [18:29] or something :( [18:29] hrmm are there any other tech centric cons in the MI area other than grcon (or notacon I guess)? [18:29] jrwren: pcon is? [18:29] nullspace: They're working on the schedule now, so the sooner the better. [18:29] krondor: TONS [18:29] well there was detroit dev days last year, and the detroit mobile dev days coming up [18:29] what rick_h said [18:29] most of the big things are in OH [18:30] in the .NET world there are lots of days of .net [18:30] but yea, there's a bunch of things around, you just have to watch for them [18:30] krondor: grrcon is supposedly a super-awesome security conference [18:30] krondor: bsides detroit [18:31] ooh I'm adding all these :) brousch: Yeah I heard it was great I plan to go this year. [18:31] i'm on the fence [18:31] always am when it costs me money ;) [18:31] I heard a bunch of vendors walked out because they were mad it was all college kids and not sales leads. That makes it even better IMO [18:31] still working on a venue for bsides [18:32] pyohio is my next big thing, well I guess penguicon, but hardly counting as my 'big' event [18:32] college kids == future sales leads (short sighted) [18:32] derbycon is my big thing, don't think I could get a talk accepted to taht [18:32] that [18:33] derbycon sounded nice too, but if I'm making a trek might as well try 20th anniversary of defcon. [18:33] nullspace: is that centered around hats or crashing junk cars? [18:34] krondor: grrcon videos are online, so you can make up your own mind http://www.youtube.com/user/GrrCON [18:35] I think this year I might try to do a room party at pcon for rooting. Last year's panel on it was awkward. [18:40] brousch: it's an infosec con organized by well know infosec leaders [18:41] mitnick was there last year and gave an awesome talk with dave kenndy ( CTO of Diebold) [18:42] nullspace: mitnick is speaking at grrcon this year [18:43] love this article, bring your thoughts to CHC while I scream "AMEN!" http://www.toolness.com/wp/2012/03/coffee-machines-and-community/ [18:47] Just get a Keurig. :) [18:49] bah! [18:49] snap-l: I'm curious about those, what model and what's your experience? [18:49] nullspace: At work they have this industrial-grade machine [18:50] Has a LCD display and everything. Hooks to the water line [18:50] Certain coffee brands are much better than others [18:50] I like the Green Mountain Dark Magic [18:50] our issue at work is that it connects to the water line, wixom's water sucks [18:50] nullspace: You might want to get a water filter [18:51] or a softener or use a brita pitcher [18:51] I mean, if your water is crap, you're going to get crap coffee [18:51] But, in any event, I'm pretty pleased with it [18:51] But I think it's a combo of decent coffee and a decent machine [18:51] ugh, never was happy with the flavor, and seems wasteful, and completely misses the point of the article :P [18:52] I wouldn't replace my home mill & brew with it [18:52] rick_h: I'm kiding. :) [18:52] snap-l: thus some colleges and myself bring in water, our own coffee and use a electric kettle and french press. the results are excellent [18:52] and yes, it is wasteful [18:53] But, compared with the coffee of indeterminate origin in the kitchen, or the rocket fuel that gets brewed behind me, I'll settle for it. [18:53] I like coffee with a little bite, not coffee that latches onto your tongue and won't let go [18:53] snap-l: yeah, I made fun of Emily when she got ours, but honestly the Keurig is pretty nice. [18:54] They literally use espresso machines to make a cup of coffee [18:54] It'll never be the best cup of joe, but it's a good, consistent cuppa joe. [18:54] mmmm black-eye, my fav [18:55] careful with that stuff. i used to drink it, then i started getting angina from caffeine. now i'm decaf [18:55] brousch: Yeah, I know. I drink way too much of that stuff at work [18:55] was drinking a super biggby redeye every morning. 24oz of coffee + 3 shots of espresso [18:56] brousch: OK, that's asking for trouble [18:56] I suppose if my esspresso machien broken down my instinct would be to take the thing apart and fix it, while I'm there I'll likely make design changes [18:56] nullspace: because there's nothing like creating an espresso-grenade. [18:57] brousch: I drink at most three cups of coffee, unless it's crappy watery coffee, then there is no telling [18:57] now i drink a whole pot every day, but it's decaf [19:13] greg-g: i think this was the pdf reading/markup app i looked at before http://goo.gl/rR1rT [19:14] here's another https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.qiqqa.android.qiqqa [19:36] brousch: cool. thanks === `Marcus is now known as _Marcus [19:55] snap-l: have you heard of ccmixter? [20:00] I have [20:00] haven't quite found a place for it yet, though [20:01] Though they've gotten bigger since I last looked. :) [20:07] if you'd like your brain broken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrnkK2YEcE [20:28] snap-l: i always end up with months worth of music from your instrumentalcasts [20:30] That's awesome. [20:32] except then i become many episodes behind