[06:24] <magespawn> Morning y'all.
[06:26] <Banlam> o/
[07:03] <kodez> morning magespawn
[07:03] <magespawn> Howdy
[07:04] <kodez> i am better than yesterday, thanks for asking and how are you?
[07:06] <superfly> morning gu
[07:06] <superfly> *guys
[07:06] <Banlam> lol
[07:06] <superfly> too used to tab-completion
[07:06] <magespawn> Well that is all ways good, Kodez. I am well too.
[07:06] <magespawn> Morning superfly
[07:06] <magespawn> Ha
[07:08] <magespawn> Hay Banlam, did not see you there.
[07:09] <Banlam> gmorning :)
[07:23] <magespawn> I am off, on the road today, see y'all later.
[07:38] <Kilos> good morning superfly maiatoday and others
[07:40] <maiatoday> Hi all
[07:40] <Kilos> lo inetpro jy's seker al by die werk
[07:43] <superfly> hi Kilos
[09:26] <zeref> hmmmm
[09:27] <zeref> win8 looks bleh
[09:41] <inetpro> good morning everyone
[09:41] <inetpro> Maaz: tell Kilos I say hi
[09:41] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[09:54] <psydroid> good morning inetpro
[12:08] <Unknown0BC> greetings humans.
[12:09] <Unknown0BC> And others.
[12:09] <Unknown0BC> :)
[12:09] <bakuman> sjoe sjoe
[12:19] <Unknown0BC> :)
[12:22] <Unknown0BC> Where can I buy a set of DVD's for the latest ubuntu in the Durvanville Bellville region. ( I will also through in some beer )
[12:24] <Kerbero> google for a toaster near you
[12:26] <Unknown0BC> UCT use to be the best.
[12:26] <Unknown0BC> Now it seems the toaster is somewhat fried and unmaintained.
[12:27] <Unknown0BC> What is google ? Only kidding. Ok bad joke.
[12:27] <Unknown0BC> ;)
[12:29] <zeref> o0o0
[12:30] <zeref> Why do you want to buy??
[12:31] <Unknown0BC> If its going to be close to me and easy to get. I am willing to buy.
[12:31] <Unknown0BC> Or buy beer.
[12:31] <Unknown0BC> :)
[12:34] <Unknown0BC> Downloading takes forever.
[12:34] <Unknown0BC> And I have to do it at someone else's place.
[12:35] <Kerbero> well in stellenbosch there is a wifi network called SCN with free access to ftp.sun.ac.za and mirror.ac.za
[12:36] <Unknown0BC> Sounds like an option. thanks Kerbero.
[12:36] <Unknown0BC> However, I am sure someone or even a couple of people in Durvanville could assist.
[12:36] <Unknown0BC> If I just knew who. And if they would be willing.
[12:41] <Alive> :)
[12:44] <Kerbero> Alive[InJoburg] would hav ebeen a nice nick
[12:47] <Alive> I could always go visit jobrg
[12:47] <Alive> ;)
[12:47] <Kerbero> :D
[14:39] <Ethiano> Hi Can you tell me if i can and how do i connect a 3g connection to my linux Laptop 
[14:47] <kbmonkey> evening geeks
[17:06] <nuvolari> o/ lo kbmonkey 
[18:01] <kbmonkey> o/ nuvolari 
[18:01] <kbmonkey> how goes it man?
[18:10] <magespawn> Evening all
[18:10] <kbmonkey> hi magespawn Kilos 
[18:10] <Kilos> evening superfly kbmonkey and others
[18:10] <Maaz> Kilos: By the way, inetpro on freenode told me "tell Kilos I say hi" 8 hours, 28 minutes and 56 seconds ago
[18:11] <magespawn> Hi Kilos
[18:11] <Kilos> haha 
[18:11] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[18:11] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[18:11] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[18:13] <kbmonkey> oh magespawn I probably asked this before, what bot framework is Maaz built on? supybot?
[18:13] <Kilos> ibid
[18:13] <Kilos> or isnt that the framework
[18:13] <magespawn> kbmonkey no idea not my bot
[18:14] <superfly> hi Kilos
[18:14] <Kilos> kbmonkey, ask cocooncrash . its his bot
[18:14] <kbmonkey> ++kilos
[18:14] <cocooncrash> kbmonkey: Ibid
[18:14] <Kilos> yay i was right
[18:14] <magespawn> kbmonkey why?
[18:15] <Kilos> hiya cocooncrash all good?
[18:15] <kbmonkey> curious :)
[18:16] <Kilos> you lucky curiosity kills cats not monkeys
[18:16] <magespawn> Ha
[18:17] <kbmonkey> but also remember that satisfaction brings the cat back
[18:17] <magespawn> kbmonkey what about the greeter bot? 
[18:17] <Kilos> ya
[18:17] <magespawn> Thats the first time I have heard that
[18:18] <kbmonkey> well yes, it could be a part of maaz? it was a thought, have not written up a spec of it
[18:18] <Kilos> thats an add on from nosy peeps
[18:19] <kbmonkey> but hey, if it looks good a simple patch could be applied to Maaz ?
[18:19] <Kilos> ibids rock
[18:21] <kbmonkey> basic idea is: if Maaz sees a new name, and the chan is idle for some period, Maaz can give a greeter and that there's nobody active at that time
[18:21] <Kilos> ah
[18:22] <Kilos> thats too involved
[18:22] <kbmonkey> i notice some new people coming from the freenode web chat, say hi, then after 5 mins they close the page
[18:22] <Kilos> yeah i greet when im online
[18:22] <kbmonkey> as my irssi is away but still captures channels, i come back and notice
[18:24] <kbmonkey> not too involved Kilos. Maaz already monitors the channel. 
[18:25] <Kilos> you but he is like a good woman. only speeks when spoken to
[18:25]  * Kilos ducks
[18:25] <Kilos> oh maia not here
[18:25]  * kbmonkey slaps kilos with a large wet trout
[18:25] <Kilos> sorry mrs_fly 
[18:25] <Kilos> hehe
[18:25] <kbmonkey> XD
[18:26] <kbmonkey> I will defend all ladies with as many trouts as needed.
[18:26] <kbmonkey> just wait till I get my order of rubber chickens s in
[18:26] <Kilos> lol
[18:26] <magespawn> Pity on the trouts
[18:27] <Kilos> tenderising
[18:27] <magespawn> Thought you only had do that with steak
[18:27] <Kilos> lol
[18:28] <Kilos> only old cows
[18:28] <magespawn> Like you?
[18:28] <Kilos> yeah im very tough
[18:28] <Kilos> like dry leather
[18:28] <kbmonkey> LOL
[18:29] <magespawn> So maybe they tenderising you not the fish. Hope you do not taste good cooked
[18:29] <Kilos> ha ha ha
[18:30] <kbmonkey> no man, gimme the ripe peaches anyday :O
[18:30] <kbmonkey> or bananas
[18:30] <magespawn> And almodes, always good with trout.
[18:30] <magespawn> Almondes even
[18:30] <Kilos> huh?
[18:30] <Kilos> eeeew
[18:31] <Kilos> never spoil good food with doff add ons
[18:31] <Kilos> like they serv crayfish with garlic sauce
[18:31] <Kilos> fools
[18:32] <kbmonkey> minimalism :)
[18:32] <magespawn> As long as it is not too strong
[18:32] <kbmonkey> okay let me browse through ibid docs...
[18:33] <Kilos> no man crays and prawns and crab must just be boiled then eaten
[18:33] <Kilos> garlic is good on other foods,
[18:33] <Kilos> not sea food
[18:33] <Kilos> maybe trout
[18:33] <magespawn> I like it on almost anything
[18:34] <Kilos> one needs to savour the flavours to appreciate them
[18:35] <bakuman> Maaz, coffee on
[18:35]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[18:35] <magespawn> But then againI also like peri peri
[18:35] <Kilos> hi bakuman 
[18:35] <bakuman> hi hi
[18:35] <bakuman> work work
[18:35] <kbmonkey> gonna pickle aubergines with garlic tomorrow XD
[18:35] <kbmonkey> italian style
[18:35] <Kilos> so do i on every meal. make my own chilli garlic sauce
[18:36] <Kilos> but never on crays
[18:36] <magespawn> Thermidor?
[18:37] <Kilos> maybe because its not pure lobster
[18:37] <Kilos> been doctored
[18:37] <magespawn> Brb
[18:39] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for bakuman!
[18:40] <magespawn> kbmonkey found this http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D06lEayLcJ6g&v=06lEayLcJ6g&gl=US
[18:40] <magespawn> I will watch it tomorrow
[18:41] <Kilos> xubuntu crashed this morning, couldnt boot at all.
[18:42] <Kilos> boot-repair from maverick said some partition was full
[18:42] <Kilos> deleted archives file and ran boot-repair now all good again
[18:43] <Kilos> luckily got archives on external
[18:43]  * bakuman had zubuntu for one day and then formatted
[18:43] <Kilos> lol
[18:44] <kbmonkey> zubuntu?
[18:44] <Kilos> ubuntu is the best up to where unity kicks in
[18:44] <kbmonkey> the car guard song, he he magespawn 
[18:44] <kbmonkey> your drive got full and it didnt boot Kilos? sjoe
[18:45] <magespawn> Sorry, kbmonkey?
[18:45] <Kilos> yeah kbmonkey maybe 6g drives are getting to small
[18:45] <kbmonkey> oh wait magespawn, that youtube url you gave?
[18:46] <kbmonkey> it does not redirect me to a video
[18:47] <kbmonkey> ah nm, got the video code from the url anyway
[18:47] <magespawn> Obj okay
[18:57] <magespawn> Useful?
[19:03] <kbmonkey> seems to be for second life
[19:03] <kbmonkey> if I have it right? letting it buffer a bit, 
[19:04] <magespawn> Just did a search on "greeter bots", lol, did not look at the video
[19:05] <Kilos> kbmonkey, have you looked at all you can do with ibids
[19:06] <Kilos> theres pages of stuff
[19:06] <kbmonkey> setting it up now Kilos 
[19:07] <kbmonkey> okay let me skip to the plugin design
[19:07] <kbmonkey> but i like to install to try it out
[19:08] <kbmonkey> ah, wait, it supports SQLite :p okay even better
[19:09] <magespawn> That the default install I think
[19:37] <Kilos> night guys. sleep tight.
[19:37] <kbmonkey> gn Kilos 
[19:38] <kbmonkey> slapp lekker
[19:44] <magespawn> kbmonkey just wrote my first python program
[19:45] <kbmonkey> cool magespawn :D
[19:45] <kbmonkey> what did you write?
[19:46] <magespawn> Just something to join two variable called "Favorite Foods". Lol, all of six lines or so.
[19:46] <kbmonkey> the basics are important
[19:47] <kbmonkey> got a ibid bot up and running, going throught the plugin docs now
[19:48] <Symmetria> *HRM*
[19:48] <Symmetria> http://pastebin.com/GFkQnf6e
[19:48] <Symmetria> that could get very very nasty
[19:50] <kbmonkey> heard of that Symmetria. already started collecting IP list for /ettc/hosts ;)
[19:50] <Kerbero> awesome
[19:50] <Kerbero> ek sal kan doen sonder dns vir 'n dag
[19:50] <Kerbero> dag van rus
[19:50] <kbmonkey> yes :D
[19:50] <Kerbero> dis anyway 'n saterdag
[19:50] <Kerbero> so wie benodig internet anyway
[19:50] <Kerbero> goeie dag om te gaan bergklim
[19:51] <tumbleweed> kbmonkey: is it working?
[19:52] <tumbleweed> Symmetria: of course, failure of the root DNS servers probably wouldn't affect most people (assuming they are behind caching resolvers)
[19:52] <Symmetria> tumbleweed the caching resolvers wont help for very long if the expiry times are set up
[19:52] <Symmetria> and on most of the CDN's where the majority of traffic comes from, those expiry times are set very low
[19:52] <Symmetria> so they will expire the caches pretty damn fast
[19:53] <tumbleweed> the TLD records have fairly high TTLs though
[19:53] <kbmonkey> yes tumbleweed I'll report back with progress..
[19:53] <magespawn> Would you be able to get paste it if you have the ip of google, or will they not be able to search?
[19:53] <magespawn> Past
[19:54] <Symmetria> tumbleweed in theory yes, except, .com and .org are directly root served if I remeber correctly
[19:54] <tumbleweed> attacking gtld roots would probably be far more effective
[19:55] <kbmonkey> magespawn, you can place the host name and IP in your /etc/hosts to direct you locally. but of course majority of folks out there wont know/do this
[19:55] <Symmetria> heh, my bigger concern is what its going to do to bandwidth in .za
[19:55] <Symmetria> particularly on the providers that host the roots 
[19:55] <Kerbero> yeah
[19:55] <Symmetria> in theory, tenet's L-ROOT instances shouldnt get hit that hard, since they are prepended to hell and gone internationally so they arent likely to take a lot of traffic
[19:56] <Symmetria> IS's root instances though dont look like they are internationally prepended 
[19:56] <Kerbero> prepended?
[19:56] <magespawn> So it will mostly affect those who do not know to get past it?
[19:57] <superfly> hrm, I wonder if I can turn up the cache period on my local DNS
[19:57] <kbmonkey> depends. as Symmetria said, could slow down ISPs to affect everyone :/
[19:57] <magespawn> Only 13 DNS servers world wide?
[19:57] <superfly> magespawn: no, root DNS servers
[19:57] <Symmetria> Kerbero the bgp announcements for the anycast
[19:57] <tumbleweed> magespawn: only 13 IP addresses. Some of them have lots of machines anycasted behind them
[19:58] <superfly> there are tons of DNS servers
[19:58] <Symmetria> magespawn there are 13 anycast IP addresses for the rots, LOTS of instances though
[19:58] <Symmetria> roots I mean
[19:59] <Symmetria> Kerbero basically, do you know how bgp works?
[19:59] <magespawn> Anybody know of a good reading source, or else I am going to bug you with all the questions?
[19:59] <Symmetria> before I try and explain prepend :)
[19:59] <Kerbero> Symmetria, sort of
[19:59] <Kerbero> but not really
[19:59] <Symmetria> Kerbero, ok, bgp 101 in its simplest form
[19:59] <magespawn> I have no idea
[19:59] <Symmetria> traffic on the internet is routed from one autonomous system to another 
[19:59] <Symmetria> each major connected network has an autonomous system
[20:00] <magespawn> Cool more lessons
[20:00] <Symmetria> (so teh tenet network for example is 2018, the IS network is as 3741)
[20:00] <Symmetria> the path that traffic takes by default is as to as, and by default the shorter the path the more preferred the route 
[20:00] <Kerbero> lessons are cool
[20:00] <Symmetria> so for example, traffic from tenet -> is, would have a single as hop (3741) since its directly connected
[20:01] <Symmetria> but traffic to something behind someone like NTT, would go 36944 (tenet's international upstream) -> 2914 (NTT) -> whoever you were reaching
[20:01] <Symmetria> right?
[20:01] <Symmetria> now, if you wanna depreference traffic coming back to you, the easiest way to do that is to extend that path, by fake injecting as numbers into it
[20:02] <Symmetria> so say for example, IS who is directly connected to TENET (3741) its a single hop
[20:02] <Symmetria> tenet also has a route to IS via Neotel (36914 3741) would be the path
[20:02] <Symmetria> if I.S wanted to force tenet traffic to come via neotel
[20:02] <Symmetria> they could inject their own ASN a coupla times on the route announcements to tenet
[20:02] <Symmetria> makign their path something like
[20:02] <Kerbero> o
[20:02] <Symmetria> 3741 3741 3741 3741 
[20:02] <Symmetria> at which point the neotel path is shorter and therefore preferred
[20:03] <magespawn> Path selection done automatically?
[20:04] <Kerbero> ok and where does prepend come in then?
[20:04] <Symmetria> kerbero the prepend is what you call that artificial lengthening of the path
[20:04] <Kerbero> ahh ok
[20:04] <Symmetria> prepend = the injection of autonomous system numbers before your own to lengthen the path
[20:05] <Symmetria> magespawn yeah, bgp has like, a 13 stage path selection process
[20:05] <Symmetria> and as path length is one of the steps
[20:05] <Kerbero> so tenet's dns roots are prepended a lot so that it do not try to go directly to ZA as's
[20:05] <Kerbero> *do not receive directly
[20:06] <magespawn> Why not make it go directly? Why make it take another path?
[20:06] <kbmonkey> interesting...
[20:06] <Symmetria> Kerbero prepended internationally
[20:06] <Symmetria> not prepended locally
[20:07] <Symmetria> so when the Lroot prefix's are announced to local providers, there is no prepend
[20:07] <Symmetria> when its announced internationally, its prepended 6 or 7 times
[20:07] <Symmetria> basically because we dont want internationals querying the servers
[20:07] <Symmetria> its bad for them, and bad for tenet 
[20:07] <Symmetria> (as a matter of interest, the joburg lroot is doing about 250 queries a second ona verage)
[20:08] <magespawn> Too much traffic?
[20:08] <Symmetria> magespawn latency on the queries
[20:08] <Kerbero> ahh makes sense now
[20:08] <magespawn> Ahh right
[20:09] <magespawn> I want to know more.
[20:09] <Symmetria> magespawn ok, ummm
[20:09] <Symmetria> DNS 101 and explaining the root servers
[20:10] <Symmetria> you do a DNS server for www.is.co.za right 
[20:10] <Symmetria> to your isp's dns server
[20:10] <Symmetria> that dns server goes, I have no clue where www.is.co.za is, so lemme go find out
[20:10] <Symmetria> so, it first needs to figure out who can give it answers about .za 
[20:10] <Symmetria> so it queries one of the root servers for the nameservers that are authorative for .za
[20:10] <Symmetria> then it queries those servers it now knows about for co.za 
[20:11] <Symmetria> and then queries the co.za servers for is.co.za
[20:11] <Symmetria> and then queries the is servers for www.is.co.za
[20:11] <Symmetria> so, there are 13 root server ip addresses
[20:11] <Symmetria> those ip addresses are mapped to multiple servers all over the world and represent hundreds of servers
[20:12] <magespawn> So if one goes off the rest carry on
[20:12] <Symmetria> tenet for example hosts one of the L Root servers (199.7.83.42) right?
[20:12] <magespawn> Okay
[20:12] <Symmetria> now, tenet announces that address to the world "HI! I have this address"
[20:12] <Symmetria> then, whoever else hosts one of those L root server instances also announces to the rest of the world "Hi! I have this address"
[20:13] <Symmetria> then, the bgp path selection process I talked about earlier, chooses the closest one and routes the traffic to the server thats closest
[20:13] <magespawn> Physically? Or by path selection?
[20:13] <Symmetria> and in this particular case, we have the server itself announcing itself to the tenet network, the tenet network then announces to the rest of the world, so, if the server dies, the announcement will disappear
[20:13] <Symmetria> path selection 
[20:13] <Symmetria> which is why you prepend the announcement internationally 
[20:14] <Symmetria> because ip routing has no knowledge of geography 
[20:14] <Kerbero> jip
[20:14] <Kerbero> this is starting to sound a lot like my master's topic
[20:14] <Symmetria> here, lemme show you from the perspective of tenet's upstream 
[20:14] <magespawn> Okay
[20:15] <Symmetria> UBUNTUNET-LND-GW-1>show ip bgp 199.7.83.42
[20:15] <Symmetria> BGP routing table entry for 199.7.83.0/24, version 436683794
[20:15] <Symmetria> Paths: (3 available, best #1, table default)
[20:15] <Symmetria> ok, so the router sees 3 paths for that subnet
[20:15] <Symmetria>   2018 2018 2018 2018 2018 2018 20144
[20:15] <Symmetria>   2914 24990 20144
[20:15] <Symmetria>   2914 24990 20144
[20:15] <Symmetria> (you'll notice the second path is duplicated, thats because there are two connections to NTT)
[20:15] <Symmetria> and then top path is the TENET path, its WAY longer than the rest 
[20:15] <Symmetria> and you can see the prepending going on
[20:16] <Symmetria> now look at the IS routing tables for that subnet
[20:16] <Symmetria>   3741 2018 20144
[20:16] <Symmetria> they come to TENET, shortest path
[20:17] <Symmetria> SAIX on the other hand gets it internationally because they dont peer with TENET 
[20:17] <Symmetria> (if you traceroute that subnet from your isp you should see where it goes)
[20:17] <Kerbero> * cough * n00bs
[20:17] <Kerbero> :P
[20:17] <magespawn> Indeed, at somethings at least
[20:18] <Symmetria> pretty sure almost all networks in south africa other than saix will be getting that prefix from tenet 
[20:18] <magespawn> saix is telkom right?
[20:18] <Symmetria> yeah
[20:18] <Kerbero> so all networks in SA will be fine on saturday except saix
[20:18] <Symmetria> bunch of douchebags :p
[20:18] <magespawn> Lol
[20:19] <Symmetria> Kerbero heh, in theory, unless they break tenet in the attack :p
[20:19] <magespawn> Okay another question then?
[20:19] <Symmetria> ask away :) 
[20:19] <Kerbero> Symmetria, we will try our best this side :P
[20:21] <Symmetria> heh magespawn Im always willing to answer questions, so you can ask whatever 
[20:22] <Kerbero> are you back in cape twon?
[20:23] <Kerbero> town
[20:23] <Symmetria> Kerbero in east london chilling here :)
[20:23] <Symmetria> was in capetown briefly on monday and tuesday though
[20:23] <Kerbero> ok nice
[20:23] <magespawn> I resell Vodacom for @lantic. With the 3g you get an @lantic email address, the smtp is voadacom.co.za for it to work. When using gmail it does not matter what the connection as loong as the smtp is googled. Why?
[20:24] <Kerbero> you originally from the EC?
[20:24] <magespawn> Vodacom and googles
[20:25] <Symmetria> magespawn what you mean as long as the smtp is googled? not sure I understand your question
[20:25] <Symmetria> Kerbero heh, was born in capetown, grew up in east london though
[20:28] <Kerbero> if bgp was location aware, would it help the routing on the internet?
[20:28] <magespawn> With @lantic address if connected via Vodacom 3g the smtp must be Vodacom.co.za for it work, but if you are using a gmail address the smtp must be googles irrespective of the connection. Why?
[20:29] <Kerbero> magespawn, maybe vodacom does not allow any non-vodacom source email addresses via their smtp server
[20:31] <magespawn> I thought it might be some sort of internal routing agreement to reduce traffic going of thei networks
[20:32] <Kerbero> if it comes to smtp servers i normally suspect anti-spam rules
[20:32] <magespawn> Excuse the typoes on a touch screen here
[20:33] <magespawn> Ahh but if I use a mtn 3g the the smtp has to be mtn.co.za
[20:33] <Kerbero> yes, the same logic applies
[20:33] <magespawn> Still a resell through @lantic with their email address
[20:34] <Symmetria> its almost certainly anti-spam rules
[20:34] <Symmetria> open relays are bad practice
[20:34] <magespawn> But then if the pc is connected via Adsl you have to use something else
[20:34] <Symmetria> magespawn basically, it wont let people from outside certain ip ranges use their smtp servers probably
[20:35] <Symmetria> and it also probably wont allow you to use their smtp servers for domains it doesnt know about
[20:36] <magespawn> The upside of this is that you have to create two accounts on the email client for one email addres just changing the smtp
[20:37] <Symmetria> arghhhh 
[20:37] <Symmetria> my puppy just cheweed through the network cable to my amp
[20:37] <magespawn> Thought it was me, lol
[20:41] <Symmetria> heh
[20:41] <Symmetria> damn there is a lot of traffic coming into ubuntunet from google in europe
[20:41] <magespawn> Is it possible to setup an email server with dyndns?
[20:41] <Symmetria> 1.3gigabit/second
[20:42] <Symmetria> magespawn in theory yes, better way to do it though is just to set the email server to do user/password authentication and leave the dns/ip restrictions off it
[20:43] <magespawn> How would it be found if the router ip keeps changing?
[20:51] <magespawn> This is quite nice to read http://www.bgp4.as/ for us n00bs 
[20:51] <superfly> magespawn: even though your 3G modem gets a public IP address (it does on Vodacom), it is actually on a private internal network
[20:52] <superfly> so mtn likely makes sure all smtp traffic must flow through their smtp server.
[20:54] <magespawn> Okay , if I use the google smtp then it does not matter the connection, so would that be a routing deal between @lantic and either Vodacom or mtn, so they do not have to pass traffic to another network?
[20:56] <magespawn> I am quite happy to go and do my own reading on the net, if I know where to go.
[20:58] <Symmetria> umm
[20:58] <Symmetria> well, its unlikely to be any rotuing deal
[20:58] <Symmetria> on the smtp
[20:58] <Symmetria> smtp routes via IP 
[20:58] <Symmetria> @lantic and vodacom could be connected any which way, the smtp traffic will flow via whatever ip routes exist between them
[20:58] <Symmetria> either directly or via the general internet
[21:00] <Symmetria> (sorry if I was taking a while to respond, was busy editing a php script)
[21:02] <magespawn> I have lots of questions. I am one of the few persons with the slightest clue about computers in Hluhluwe, so I am always trying to learn more
[21:02] <magespawn> No worries
[21:03] <magespawn> Besides always fun to learn more things
[21:04] <magespawn> And I like picking experts brains, you get all the benefits of their experience.
[21:06] <magespawn> Also found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Gateway_Protocol
[21:12] <Symmetria> heh yeah, bgp is something that would take me a while to properly teach you
[21:12] <Symmetria> its relatively simple in concept
[21:12] <Symmetria> there is just a lot to it
[21:12] <Symmetria> bgp is one of those protocols that allows you to do almost anything in very simple ways, and that includes seriously shooting yourself in the foot
[21:13] <magespawn> Well when I first read about ip addresses and subnets etc it confused the hell out of me, but th 100th time it started to make a little sense
[21:14] <Symmetria> heh and the problem with bgp mistakes is that often, they dont only affect you
[21:14] <Symmetria> a mistake in bgp can affect the internet world wide 
[21:14] <magespawn> Oops.
[21:14] <Symmetria> and the impact of such a mistake will be felt in seconds 
[21:14] <Symmetria> because what happens, you announce a route to an upstream
[21:14] <Symmetria> they announce it to all their upstreams etc
[21:14] <Symmetria> and the route you are announcing goes world wide in less than 5 minutes 
[21:15] <Symmetria> if you announce a route for space you dont actually have, and your upstream accepts and propogates it because of bad filtering 
[21:15] <Symmetria> the whole world is going think that you are the destination for that space 
[21:15] <Symmetria> and whoever REALLY owns that ip space is not gonna get any traffic
[21:15] <Symmetria> (thats a pretty simple way of explaining IP hijacking, and there is slightly more to it than that, like route selection process, but thats the basics of it)
[21:15] <magespawn> So if you want to shut down the net let me control your bgp for about 15 minutes then
[21:16] <Symmetria> magespawn *shrug* hijacking space was how the pakistani telco took youtube off the air for 4 hours a few years ago
[21:17] <magespawn> Would something like the Tor be able to get past that?
[21:17] <Symmetria> once IP space is hijacked like that, aint anything gonna really get past it, everything runs on top of the IP routing
[21:18] <Symmetria> this is why when teaching BGP, those of us that teach it always tell people over and over and over again to make sure their filtering is correct
[21:18] <Symmetria> so that they dont accept, or announce space that shouldnt be flowing around 
[21:19] <magespawn> I can show you how to pick up dangerous reptiles if you like.
[21:19] <Symmetria> LOL my puppy can show you how to pick up and kill rodents :P she's gotten extremely good at hunting everything that moves in the garden haha
[21:20] <magespawn> Information exchange. Useful information hopefully.
[21:21] <magespawn> I like to keep the snakes alive if I can. They kill my rodents.
[21:21] <magespawn> Hi psydroid
[21:21] <Symmetria> lol we get some puffies here
[21:22] <Symmetria> anyway, Im off to watch an episode or 2 then get some sleep
[21:22] <magespawn> I am also off, night all.
[21:23] <Kerbero> night