/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/29/#ubuntu-community-team.txt

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czajkowskialoha08:09
nigelbbah.08:47
nigelbmade the mistake of reading a troll post.08:47
popeyooh, which one?08:56
popeyi _love_ trolls08:56
czajkowskipopey: try living with one :)08:58
popeyhah, true08:58
czajkowskiit's hours of amusement ;)08:59
czajkowskithough he did bring me breakie in bed as so not well today08:59
nigelbpopey: the disassociated post one.09:01
czajkowskinigelb: link09:01
nigelbUbuntu Kernal thing. meh.09:01
nigelbczajkowski: http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/09:01
czajkowskioh that lark09:02
nigelbpopey: "Perhaps we should run the wiki pages through the Marketing / PR machine and see what comes out? I suspect that would open up even more blogging opportunities for you and others, Joe."09:02
nigelb<3 <3 <#09:02
nigelbYou have made my day!09:02
popey:D nigelb09:25
nigelb:)09:29
cjohnstonmornin12:14
mhall1191morning12:53
nigelbmhall119: 2morning12:56
mhall119:P12:56
mhall119Unity is still slower than me, if I hit super+1 too fast, it'll read a tap on super and then 112:56
imbrandonheh12:57
* imbrandon is glad unity isnt on the server installs 12:57
mhall119why would a GUI be on the server installs?12:58
imbrandonexactly. and anywhere else i dont have to worry about a ubuntu gui :)12:58
imbrandonactually thats a lie, but you know, it sounded good12:59
imbrandonbut i do refuse to use unity until i can customize it on the level of gnome 2.x13:00
imbrandonwithout recompiling it, that is13:00
nigelbyou probably won't use unity ever then :P13:00
imbrandonnigelb: very very likely13:01
nigelbI also think that's a feature.13:02
imbrandoni rarely use linux on the desktop anyhow so its moot, but when i do its not unity, and now i sound like one of the guys i used to hate talking about how they used fwvm13:02
imbrandonloll13:02
nigelbI don't think I'd mind unity. I used it once or twice and it worked well for me.13:02
imbrandonnigelb: whats a feature ? that i'll never likely use it ?13:02
nigelbimbrandon: haha, no, that you can't customize /every/ thing.13:03
imbrandonif i only had to use my desktop once or twice it might be ok, but 12 to 16 hours a day 5 days a week and 16 to 18 on weeknds , unity dont cut it13:03
imbrandonnigelb: i dont want to customize everything , gnome 2.x you couldent, if i did i would use KDE 3.5 where you can cuztomize it all13:04
imbrandonbut i want the basics, like moving the damn launcher and not hiding it on my 4x 23 inch monitors13:05
imbrandon:)13:05
imbrandoni am not running on a netbook at 1024x600, dont hide crap from me13:06
imbrandonit is the ONLY thing i've ever bitched about in ubuntu since i started using breeze badger beta13:07
imbrandonand will likly never stop13:07
imbrandoni'll revist the landscape again in 2014 when the next LTS hits13:08
imbrandonuntill then my os x 10.8 desktop is just fine, and makin ubuntu rock on the server works for me :)13:08
nigelbimbrandon: HA. Another OS X user! \o/13:11
imbrandonbah, i'm a computer user. best tool for the job at hand, i'd even use windows ... that is if i could ever find a good use for it being the tool :P13:12
popey\o/ GameOS13:12
imbrandonosx works grat for that13:12
imbrandon:)13:12
imbrandonand PS3 even better13:12
imbrandonbtw popey i read that thread , the wiki line was FTW , like i want to print it and put it on a billboard13:13
imbrandon:)13:13
popey:D13:14
mhall119so I was totally against Unity when it came out, but in 11.04 I made myself use it for a month so that I could hate it in good conscience13:14
mhall119but by the second week I was so used to it that everything else felt awkward13:14
imbrandonwell the not moving the launcher for multi screen and it auto hiding is pretty big for me, those two things ever change and i MIGHT be able to get used to the rest13:15
mhall119imbrandon: you can disable auto-hide, that's been around since 11.10 at least13:15
popeyits disabled by default now13:16
mhall119and 12.04 lets you have it on all monitors, or only a specified one13:16
imbrandonahh i havent tried in months13:16
imbrandoni dont care about that, i want to _MOVE_ it13:16
imbrandonlike to the bottom13:16
mhall119you won't get that13:16
imbrandonbah every os has that13:16
imbrandonits ignorant not to have it13:16
mhall119every *desktop* os has that13:17
dpmUbuntu is not every OS :)13:17
dpm(sorry, I couldn't resist)13:17
imbrandonits not any os for most13:17
imbrandonbecause of that and other things13:17
imbrandonand the few it is for is dwindling13:17
imbrandoneven windows ce i can move the damn launcher13:17
mhall119imbrandon: try it for a month, I bet you a beer you'll get used to it on the side13:17
imbrandonmhall119: i have13:17
imbrandonseriously13:17
mhall119for a month?13:17
imbrandonlonger probably13:17
mhall119every day?13:18
imbrandoni had it for almost a full release13:18
imbrandonevery day ]13:18
imbrandonmain pc13:18
imbrandonyes13:18
mhall119heh, then I owe you a beer :)13:18
mhall119and an Xubuntu CD13:18
imbrandonheh13:18
mhall119or Kubuntu  CD13:18
imbrandonheh yea i have xubuntu loaded in my VM's13:18
imbrandonthe little i do us is xubuntu :)_13:18
mhall119Unity isn't for everybody, but it works well for a lot more people than realize it13:19
imbrandonbut seriously wtf, why would i never get that, i mean it is soooooo basic13:19
imbrandonmhall119: exactly your the first person to say that now get it out of ubuntu because that IS for everybody13:19
mhall119imbrandon: because then it'll be much harder to produce a consistent interface across multiple devices13:19
imbrandonmhall119: exactly your the first person to say that now get it out of ubuntu because that IS for everybody13:20
mhall119we're not going to remove something from Ubuntu just because there's a small number of people that don't like it13:20
imbrandonnah , take things like @media wueries from html13:20
imbrandonit can be done13:20
imbrandonjsut dont be lazy13:20
imbrandonmhall119: i dont say remove it , i said fix it :)13:21
imbrandonwell i did13:21
mhall119imbrandon: the purpose of Unity is that it will be the same everywhere13:21
imbrandonbut not what i ment13:21
imbrandonmhall119: thats a broken goal13:21
mhall119I don't think it is13:21
imbrandonsure it is for the exact reasons http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/13:22
mhall119heh13:22
imbrandonand some of the same things can be applied to get the same experince accross pc13:22
imbrandonand other devices13:22
mhall119imbrandon: maybe not look, but they should *work* the same in every browser13:22
imbrandonunity trying to be the same accross devices is the bug, not the solution13:22
imbrandonmhall119: no they dont, ajax, json, reposting , printing13:23
mhall119well that's the design goal of the project, and so changes aren't going to be made that are against that design goal13:23
imbrandonthey all work very diffrent13:23
mhall119imbrandon: behind the scenes maybe13:23
imbrandonmhall119: right thus i said need for removal because unity and ubnutu goals dont align13:23
imbrandoni mean i'm really trying , i am a ubnutu fanboy and have been since warty13:24
mhall119Ubuntu's goal is to be on multiple devices13:24
imbrandonand full time user since breezy13:24
mhall119Unity was made to accomplish that goal13:24
imbrandonmhall119: NOPE13:24
imbrandonstop there13:24
imbrandonno13:24
imbrandon08:24:04 < mhall119> Ubuntu's goal is to be on multiple devices  <-- not when i started using ubuntu, not when i became a core-dev13:24
imbrandonnever has that been a goal13:24
imbrandonubnutu's goal is the os for everyone13:25
jokerdinoimbrandon: things change along the way13:25
imbrandoneven desktop users with full scrreen13:25
imbrandonjokerdino: sure but where, i seen it no where but canonicals goals13:25
imbrandonnever have i seen that change in unbuntu;s13:25
mhall119imbrandon: a multi-device focus is needed to make it available to everyone13:26
imbrandoni'm not trying to be a troll but see what i'm getting at here ?13:26
imbrandonmhall119: sure but that dont mean they all need to look alike13:26
imbrandonfunction consitantly sure13:27
imbrandonbut me hacving an optino to move the bar along with a mirad of other things dont aliign with that13:27
mhall119imbrandon: looking alike isn't necessary to make Ubuntu run on them, no, but looking alike is necessay for Ubuntu to be distributed on them13:27
imbrandonno13:28
imbrandonoh wow no13:28
imbrandonthat sounds like a designer with no experince or someone who is listening to one13:28
mhall119maybe both?13:28
imbrandonseriously13:28
imbrandonhehe13:28
imbrandonman its hard to do this and not feel like a troll, but man13:28
imbrandoni dont even know where to start some days13:29
imbrandonlol13:29
mhall119so, from my perspective, Linux has let you customize everything for a very long time13:29
mhall119Gnome 2.x, you could do just about anything13:30
mhall119for years!13:30
mhall119and it was never taken seriously by people selling devices to consumers13:30
mhall119so consumers never saw it13:31
imbrandonmhall119: to sum it up i think that unity can be fixed, and overall is a nice gesture,but it does need to be fixed and things like uninamiously saying we wont do that is alot of whats broken, sure you dont need everything , that and i consistanly hear the _small gourp of users thing_ have you actually went out side the ubnutu community and looked at what the users are doing ? they are sticking with 10.0413:31
imbrandonmhall119: linux on the desktop and devices has been taken much more seriously before unity13:31
imbrandonunity is actualy holding it back13:31
mhall119I haven't taken a poll, but the majority I see have upgraded13:32
mhall119unity has been the default for not quite a year now13:32
imbrandoni said outside of the comminuty, go look at lugs and places where your not asking the poll13:32
imbrandonbut observing13:32
mhall119I don't see how it could possible be holding back anything13:32
imbrandonmhall119: it will hold back the adobption of 12.0413:32
imbrandonand thats a lts13:32
imbrandonthats HUGE13:33
imbrandoni know of 2 peple personaly that had went and bought a mac with no influence from me due to unity13:33
imbrandonand they equating ubnutnu with linux there for not tryinmg another distro13:33
mhall119they bought a mac because they couldn't be bothered to apt-get install a different desktop shell?13:34
imbrandonthey had no idea13:34
imbrandonit wasemnt the desfault, the desfault took their desktop the liked13:34
mhall119that's like trading in your new car because you don't like the radio presets13:34
imbrandonmhall119: it is, but its happening and in the real world13:34
mhall119imbrandon: but that kind of problem isn't something that can be solved with code13:35
imbrandonseriously, i r fanboi, unity is wrong broken, fix it13:35
imbrandonmhall119: yes it can13:35
imbrandonmhall119: sure it can13:35
imbrandonwith choice13:35
mhall119if someone trades in a car because they don't like the radio presets, using different presets isn't going to solve anything13:35
mhall119they had choice already13:35
mhall119there *had* to be more reason for buying a mac than just not liking Unity13:36
mhall119there had to be13:36
imbrandonubnutu built what it had on the standards , build on those, stand on the shoulders of giants, dont fux it up and then say you wont fix it _beacuse_ or it cant be fixed with code, and i'm going to stop here cuz i really do feel like a troll now, want to finish the convo over a beer at uds ?13:37
mhall119I simply can't believe that someone would spend a couple grand on a new computer because they didn't like default settings on their old one13:37
jokerdinoif you guys are going to get anywhere, please let me know :)13:37
imbrandonjokerdino: heh read my last line :)13:37
jokerdino:)13:37
s-foxis wikipedia on the go slow for anyone else or just me?13:37
imbrandonmhall119: sure it happens every day as far as buying a new pc for that or less, i've seen ppl buy new pc's when they got a virus13:38
jokerdinos-fox: how slow is too slow? it loads within a couple of seconds here13:38
s-foxjokerdino,  it is crawling for me ;)13:39
imbrandonseems ok here s-fox13:39
s-foxOkay, thanks for looking13:39
s-foxwell, the homepage loads quickly but the articles aren't for me13:39
imbrandonmhall119: and i do appologize i dident mean for the convo to degrade to that, i really would like to finish it in persons sometime :)13:39
popey\o/ beer at UDS13:40
imbrandon:)13:40
cjohnston+213:40
jokerdino-1, I won't be at UDS.13:40
* imbrandon hates feeling like a troll13:40
cjohnstonimbrandon will tell you when to start drinking13:40
imbrandonhaha13:41
imbrandongood call13:41
imbrandonjokerdino: just grab a g+ hangout mic and a beer, we'll broadcast13:41
imbrandon:)13:41
cjohnstonnot I said drinking not when to grab a beer.. this is much more than an "a beer" conversation13:41
cjohnstons/not/note13:42
jokerdinoremote beer drinking? haha13:42
imbrandondepends on the beer, a good dark stout dosent go down so fast :)13:42
mhall119imbrandon: you will be at UDS?13:42
imbrandonand by the end you get jono dancing with a bottle http://farm1.staticflickr.com/187/381427501_beabe75fa1_o.jpg  <- i was there !!13:43
imbrandonmhall119: yup13:43
mhall119imbrandon: we can definitely finish it over some drinks then13:44
imbrandonjust promis no bottle dancing :)13:45
s-foxconfirmed wikipedia is going boing13:45
mhall119I can promise that I won't13:45
mhall119I can't speak for jono though13:45
imbrandonhahah , i'll distract him, he worked very very very hard to keep that photo off the interwebs too btw13:46
imbrandon:)13:46
mhall119and yet the hotdog costume was *everywhere*13:46
imbrandonthere was a better one too but cant find it13:46
imbrandonhaha13:46
mhall119imbrandon: did you see http://mhall119.com/2012/02/the-many-sides-of-jono-bacon/ ?13:47
imbrandonbrb , gonna see if i can find something quick to rummage up for breakfast13:47
* imbrandon loks13:47
imbrandonhahah no13:47
imbrandoni'll look closer when i get back13:47
imbrandon:)13:47
imbrandonzomg, that is priceless13:48
imbrandonok ok i looked closer before i left13:48
imbrandonbut yea , priceless13:49
imbrandonyou make that mhall119 ?13:49
imbrandondude , even his wife commented13:49
imbrandonhahah classic13:49
mhall119imbrandon: yeah I made it14:02
imbrandonheh i seen one for devlopers and thought it was good, but that one, man i hope Erica framed it14:09
imbrandoncold spagatti , breakfast of champions , only thing better is fruity pebbles with mt dew ( for milk )14:11
mhall119um, ew14:11
mhall119although...I could go for some fruity pebbles14:12
technovikingjcastro: think I got it OpenID working!!! Just need  login.ununtu.com to accept requests from the test forums14:39
s-foxwoot technoviking14:39
technovikingjcastro: tiaz is seeing if it is a fix from their end.15:55
technovikingquiet today, too quiet:)15:56
komputeshttp://askubuntu.com/questions/38789/remove-the-workspace-switcher-launcher-from-unity-launcher16:36
komputes^ just realized all solutions with the same rating shift from one visit to another16:37
komputessmart way to give each one a chance to be on top16:37
s-foxjokerdino,  thanks for the blog comment16:44
s-fox:)16:44
s-foxGoodbye.17:07
bkerensamhall119: Do you have access to the Ubuntu FB page and possibly the Ubuntu G+ and Ubuntu Dev G+?18:06
bkerensa:)18:06
bkerensadholbach is out for the day and I wanted to get the Ubuntu 12.04 Development Update out on the social media18:07
Atlantic777Hi guys! I need your opinion and help, or a psychotherapeutist...18:34
Atlantic777Well, there is a crew which started an e-magazine, I joined them, helped them organise, and we are about to publish our 0 release.18:34
Atlantic777There are some guys which are working their job really great but there are some conflicts, of course...18:35
Atlantic777The guy A simply ignores guy B. Guy A is my good friend which I like very, very much and who will help me always. Guy B started whole this idea.18:36
Atlantic777Should I try to make peace or simply tell them the truth and keep them both in my team in spite of they don't like eachother?18:36
Atlantic777Please, ping me if anybody has any opinion or hint what to do. Thanks in advance. ;)18:37
mhall119bkerensa: I have Ubuntu on FB, and Unity on G+18:43
mhall119bkerensa: linky?18:44
bkerensahttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/03/29/ubuntu-12-04-development-update-20/18:44
bkerensaalso on omg18:44
mhall119bkerensa: done18:59
balloonsAtlantic777, :-) sounds like the real world..Being stuck between two people like that can be hard19:03
pleia2mhall119: beta2 isn't out yet ;)19:08
pleia2but I'll get that up on fridge too when it is19:08
balloonsit's very close :-)19:09
mhall119pleia2: it isn't? doh!19:14
* mhall119 blames bkerensa 19:14
bkerensaWhat?19:15
bkerensamhall119: It is not my fault .... blame dholbach who decided to take the day off :P19:16
bkerensahe signed off on it anyways19:16
bkerensa:)19:16
bkerensaand it says "set to be released" which is not guaranteed19:16
bkerensapleia2: it is out?19:22
pleia2where is that bot that says "no" :P19:22
bkerensaIt has been out since 11am PST?19:22
pleia2skaet will send out a release announcement19:23
bkerensawell :P then OMG announcing it as being out and many other sites must be in error19:23
pleia2they always announce early19:23
pleia2(have done this for years)19:23
bkerensaahh19:24
bkerensa:D19:24
pleia2we wait for the official announcement from the release manager :)19:24
pleia2the news sites get revenue from their posts, so announcing early gets them hits before their competitors and so they get the traffic first19:25
pleia2fridge, not so much19:25
Atlantic777balloons: huh, it's harder than I thought... :(19:26
Atlantic777I'm having conversation with the B guy and it's... not looking good.19:26
pleia2Atlantic777: it's not an easy spot to be in and I've seen projects fail due to conflicts like this, you just need to do the best you can and walk away if it becomes unresolvable (full circle magazine always needs help :))19:26
czajkowskibkerensa: omg is not offical now is it19:26
bkerensaczajkowski: Obviously not19:28
balloonshey cjohnston --- you ready for me to break your pc again?20:44
cjohnstonno20:45
Atlantic777huh it's over -.-'21:01
Atlantic777and it's good, somehow :D21:01
pleia2bkerensa: ok, now it's released :)21:03
balloonscjohnston, hehe.. well.. prepare yourself :-)21:05
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* balloons crosses fingers22:31
greg-gpopey: btw, that #goupstream is Go Up Stream not Goup Stream :)22:55
popeyhmm?22:55
greg-gsee twitter22:56
popeyoh, i see22:57
popeyredmine needs a kick in the teeth22:59
popeysearching for a y'know, "file a bug" button22:59
greg-gyeah yeah22:59
popeyoh, they're issues22:59
popeynot bugs22:59
popeybah22:59
greg-gwell, you need to create an account, just like on every bug tracker :)22:59
popeyyeah, already done that23:00
popeyyou login, then it lists "bugs"23:00
popeybut then to file a "bug" you click "new issue", not "new bug" or "file bug" or anything super logical23:01
popeyanyway, done23:01
popeyhttp://redmine.yorba.org/issues/497623:01
popeyalso, joy, i cant link lp to it23:01
popey"Shotwell uses trac.yorba.org/ to track its bugs. If you know this bug has been reported there, you can link to it; Launchpad will keep track of its status for you."23:02
popeyyet my link is redmine., not trac.23:02
greg-gwell, that seems to be LP's fault23:02
greg-gthe admin of the shotwell project needs to update the LP info23:03
greg-gwhich, you know, every upstream is the admin of the LP project for their package ;)23:03
popeyas the shipped photo app in ubuntu they should be more attentive :p23:03
greg-g"sure" :)23:04
popey23:04
popeyright, now to my third bug of the evening23:04
greg-gnice23:05
greg-gis this one for LP itself? :)23:05
popeyhaha23:06
greg-gpopey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/34189523:09
ubot2Launchpad bug 341895 in launchpad ""Launchpad does not recognize" upstream URL: should gracefully handle links from unregistered bugtrackers" [Low,Triaged]23:09
greg-gjcastro: already reported it for you/us BACK IN 2009! :)23:09
* popey clicks 'affects me'23:11
* popey notes he is one of _two_ people it affects23:12
popey\o/ go me and him!23:12
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