[08:09] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:47] <nigelb> bah.
[08:47] <nigelb> made the mistake of reading a troll post.
[08:56] <popey> ooh, which one?
[08:56] <popey> i _love_ trolls
[08:58] <czajkowski> popey: try living with one :)
[08:58] <popey> hah, true
[08:59] <czajkowski> it's hours of amusement ;)
[08:59] <czajkowski> though he did bring me breakie in bed as so not well today
[09:01] <nigelb> popey: the disassociated post one.
[09:01] <czajkowski> nigelb: link
[09:01] <nigelb> Ubuntu Kernal thing. meh.
[09:01] <nigelb> czajkowski: http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/
[09:02] <czajkowski> oh that lark
[09:02] <nigelb> popey: "Perhaps we should run the wiki pages through the Marketing / PR machine and see what comes out? I suspect that would open up even more blogging opportunities for you and others, Joe."
[09:02] <nigelb> <3 <3 <#
[09:02] <nigelb> You have made my day!
[09:25] <popey> :D nigelb
[09:29] <nigelb> :)
[12:14] <cjohnston> mornin
[12:53] <mhall119> 1morning
[12:56] <nigelb> mhall119: 2morning
[12:56] <mhall119> :P
[12:56] <mhall119> Unity is still slower than me, if I hit super+1 too fast, it'll read a tap on super and then 1
[12:57] <imbrandon> heh
[12:57]  * imbrandon is glad unity isnt on the server installs 
[12:58] <mhall119> why would a GUI be on the server installs?
[12:58] <imbrandon> exactly. and anywhere else i dont have to worry about a ubuntu gui :)
[12:59] <imbrandon> actually thats a lie, but you know, it sounded good
[13:00] <imbrandon> but i do refuse to use unity until i can customize it on the level of gnome 2.x
[13:00] <imbrandon> without recompiling it, that is
[13:00] <nigelb> you probably won't use unity ever then :P
[13:01] <imbrandon> nigelb: very very likely
[13:02] <nigelb> I also think that's a feature.
[13:02] <imbrandon> i rarely use linux on the desktop anyhow so its moot, but when i do its not unity, and now i sound like one of the guys i used to hate talking about how they used fwvm
[13:02] <imbrandon> loll
[13:02] <nigelb> I don't think I'd mind unity. I used it once or twice and it worked well for me.
[13:02] <imbrandon> nigelb: whats a feature ? that i'll never likely use it ?
[13:03] <nigelb> imbrandon: haha, no, that you can't customize /every/ thing.
[13:03] <imbrandon> if i only had to use my desktop once or twice it might be ok, but 12 to 16 hours a day 5 days a week and 16 to 18 on weeknds , unity dont cut it
[13:04] <imbrandon> nigelb: i dont want to customize everything , gnome 2.x you couldent, if i did i would use KDE 3.5 where you can cuztomize it all
[13:05] <imbrandon> but i want the basics, like moving the damn launcher and not hiding it on my 4x 23 inch monitors
[13:05] <imbrandon> :)
[13:06] <imbrandon> i am not running on a netbook at 1024x600, dont hide crap from me
[13:07] <imbrandon> it is the ONLY thing i've ever bitched about in ubuntu since i started using breeze badger beta
[13:07] <imbrandon> and will likly never stop
[13:08] <imbrandon> i'll revist the landscape again in 2014 when the next LTS hits
[13:08] <imbrandon> untill then my os x 10.8 desktop is just fine, and makin ubuntu rock on the server works for me :)
[13:11] <nigelb> imbrandon: HA. Another OS X user! \o/
[13:12] <imbrandon> bah, i'm a computer user. best tool for the job at hand, i'd even use windows ... that is if i could ever find a good use for it being the tool :P
[13:12] <popey> \o/ GameOS
[13:12] <imbrandon> osx works grat for that
[13:12] <imbrandon> :)
[13:12] <imbrandon> and PS3 even better
[13:13] <imbrandon> btw popey i read that thread , the wiki line was FTW , like i want to print it and put it on a billboard
[13:13] <imbrandon> :)
[13:14] <popey> :D
[13:14] <mhall119> so I was totally against Unity when it came out, but in 11.04 I made myself use it for a month so that I could hate it in good conscience
[13:14] <mhall119> but by the second week I was so used to it that everything else felt awkward
[13:15] <imbrandon> well the not moving the launcher for multi screen and it auto hiding is pretty big for me, those two things ever change and i MIGHT be able to get used to the rest
[13:15] <mhall119> imbrandon: you can disable auto-hide, that's been around since 11.10 at least
[13:16] <popey> its disabled by default now
[13:16] <mhall119> and 12.04 lets you have it on all monitors, or only a specified one
[13:16] <imbrandon> ahh i havent tried in months
[13:16] <imbrandon> i dont care about that, i want to _MOVE_ it
[13:16] <imbrandon> like to the bottom
[13:16] <mhall119> you won't get that
[13:16] <imbrandon> bah every os has that
[13:16] <imbrandon> its ignorant not to have it
[13:17] <mhall119> every *desktop* os has that
[13:17] <dpm> Ubuntu is not every OS :)
[13:17] <dpm> (sorry, I couldn't resist)
[13:17] <imbrandon> its not any os for most
[13:17] <imbrandon> because of that and other things
[13:17] <imbrandon> and the few it is for is dwindling
[13:17] <imbrandon> even windows ce i can move the damn launcher
[13:17] <mhall119> imbrandon: try it for a month, I bet you a beer you'll get used to it on the side
[13:17] <imbrandon> mhall119: i have
[13:17] <imbrandon> seriously
[13:17] <mhall119> for a month?
[13:17] <imbrandon> longer probably
[13:18] <mhall119> every day?
[13:18] <imbrandon> i had it for almost a full release
[13:18] <imbrandon> every day ]
[13:18] <imbrandon> main pc
[13:18] <imbrandon> yes
[13:18] <mhall119> heh, then I owe you a beer :)
[13:18] <mhall119> and an Xubuntu CD
[13:18] <imbrandon> heh
[13:18] <mhall119> or Kubuntu  CD
[13:18] <imbrandon> heh yea i have xubuntu loaded in my VM's
[13:18] <imbrandon> the little i do us is xubuntu :)_
[13:19] <mhall119> Unity isn't for everybody, but it works well for a lot more people than realize it
[13:19] <imbrandon> but seriously wtf, why would i never get that, i mean it is soooooo basic
[13:19] <imbrandon> mhall119: exactly your the first person to say that now get it out of ubuntu because that IS for everybody
[13:19] <mhall119> imbrandon: because then it'll be much harder to produce a consistent interface across multiple devices
[13:20] <imbrandon> mhall119: exactly your the first person to say that now get it out of ubuntu because that IS for everybody
[13:20] <mhall119> we're not going to remove something from Ubuntu just because there's a small number of people that don't like it
[13:20] <imbrandon> nah , take things like @media wueries from html
[13:20] <imbrandon> it can be done
[13:20] <imbrandon> jsut dont be lazy
[13:21] <imbrandon> mhall119: i dont say remove it , i said fix it :)
[13:21] <imbrandon> well i did
[13:21] <mhall119> imbrandon: the purpose of Unity is that it will be the same everywhere
[13:21] <imbrandon> but not what i ment
[13:21] <imbrandon> mhall119: thats a broken goal
[13:21] <mhall119> I don't think it is
[13:22] <imbrandon> sure it is for the exact reasons http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/
[13:22] <mhall119> heh
[13:22] <imbrandon> and some of the same things can be applied to get the same experince accross pc
[13:22] <imbrandon> and other devices
[13:22] <mhall119> imbrandon: maybe not look, but they should *work* the same in every browser
[13:22] <imbrandon> unity trying to be the same accross devices is the bug, not the solution
[13:23] <imbrandon> mhall119: no they dont, ajax, json, reposting , printing
[13:23] <mhall119> well that's the design goal of the project, and so changes aren't going to be made that are against that design goal
[13:23] <imbrandon> they all work very diffrent
[13:23] <mhall119> imbrandon: behind the scenes maybe
[13:23] <imbrandon> mhall119: right thus i said need for removal because unity and ubnutu goals dont align
[13:24] <imbrandon> i mean i'm really trying , i am a ubnutu fanboy and have been since warty
[13:24] <mhall119> Ubuntu's goal is to be on multiple devices
[13:24] <imbrandon> and full time user since breezy
[13:24] <mhall119> Unity was made to accomplish that goal
[13:24] <imbrandon> mhall119: NOPE
[13:24] <imbrandon> stop there
[13:24] <imbrandon> no
[13:24] <imbrandon> 08:24:04 < mhall119> Ubuntu's goal is to be on multiple devices  <-- not when i started using ubuntu, not when i became a core-dev
[13:24] <imbrandon> never has that been a goal
[13:25] <imbrandon> ubnutu's goal is the os for everyone
[13:25] <jokerdino> imbrandon: things change along the way
[13:25] <imbrandon> even desktop users with full scrreen
[13:25] <imbrandon> jokerdino: sure but where, i seen it no where but canonicals goals
[13:25] <imbrandon> never have i seen that change in unbuntu;s
[13:26] <mhall119> imbrandon: a multi-device focus is needed to make it available to everyone
[13:26] <imbrandon> i'm not trying to be a troll but see what i'm getting at here ?
[13:26] <imbrandon> mhall119: sure but that dont mean they all need to look alike
[13:27] <imbrandon> function consitantly sure
[13:27] <imbrandon> but me hacving an optino to move the bar along with a mirad of other things dont aliign with that
[13:27] <mhall119> imbrandon: looking alike isn't necessary to make Ubuntu run on them, no, but looking alike is necessay for Ubuntu to be distributed on them
[13:28] <imbrandon> no
[13:28] <imbrandon> oh wow no
[13:28] <imbrandon> that sounds like a designer with no experince or someone who is listening to one
[13:28] <mhall119> maybe both?
[13:28] <imbrandon> seriously
[13:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[13:28] <imbrandon> man its hard to do this and not feel like a troll, but man
[13:29] <imbrandon> i dont even know where to start some days
[13:29] <imbrandon> lol
[13:29] <mhall119> so, from my perspective, Linux has let you customize everything for a very long time
[13:30] <mhall119> Gnome 2.x, you could do just about anything
[13:30] <mhall119> for years!
[13:30] <mhall119> and it was never taken seriously by people selling devices to consumers
[13:31] <mhall119> so consumers never saw it
[13:31] <imbrandon> mhall119: to sum it up i think that unity can be fixed, and overall is a nice gesture,but it does need to be fixed and things like uninamiously saying we wont do that is alot of whats broken, sure you dont need everything , that and i consistanly hear the _small gourp of users thing_ have you actually went out side the ubnutu community and looked at what the users are doing ? they are sticking with 10.04
[13:31] <imbrandon> mhall119: linux on the desktop and devices has been taken much more seriously before unity
[13:31] <imbrandon> unity is actualy holding it back
[13:32] <mhall119> I haven't taken a poll, but the majority I see have upgraded
[13:32] <mhall119> unity has been the default for not quite a year now
[13:32] <imbrandon> i said outside of the comminuty, go look at lugs and places where your not asking the poll
[13:32] <imbrandon> but observing
[13:32] <mhall119> I don't see how it could possible be holding back anything
[13:32] <imbrandon> mhall119: it will hold back the adobption of 12.04
[13:32] <imbrandon> and thats a lts
[13:33] <imbrandon> thats HUGE
[13:33] <imbrandon> i know of 2 peple personaly that had went and bought a mac with no influence from me due to unity
[13:33] <imbrandon> and they equating ubnutnu with linux there for not tryinmg another distro
[13:34] <mhall119> they bought a mac because they couldn't be bothered to apt-get install a different desktop shell?
[13:34] <imbrandon> they had no idea
[13:34] <imbrandon> it wasemnt the desfault, the desfault took their desktop the liked
[13:34] <mhall119> that's like trading in your new car because you don't like the radio presets
[13:34] <imbrandon> mhall119: it is, but its happening and in the real world
[13:35] <mhall119> imbrandon: but that kind of problem isn't something that can be solved with code
[13:35] <imbrandon> seriously, i r fanboi, unity is wrong broken, fix it
[13:35] <imbrandon> mhall119: yes it can
[13:35] <imbrandon> mhall119: sure it can
[13:35] <imbrandon> with choice
[13:35] <mhall119> if someone trades in a car because they don't like the radio presets, using different presets isn't going to solve anything
[13:35] <mhall119> they had choice already
[13:36] <mhall119> there *had* to be more reason for buying a mac than just not liking Unity
[13:36] <mhall119> there had to be
[13:37] <imbrandon> ubnutu built what it had on the standards , build on those, stand on the shoulders of giants, dont fux it up and then say you wont fix it _beacuse_ or it cant be fixed with code, and i'm going to stop here cuz i really do feel like a troll now, want to finish the convo over a beer at uds ?
[13:37] <mhall119> I simply can't believe that someone would spend a couple grand on a new computer because they didn't like default settings on their old one
[13:37] <jokerdino> if you guys are going to get anywhere, please let me know :)
[13:37] <imbrandon> jokerdino: heh read my last line :)
[13:37] <jokerdino> :)
[13:37] <s-fox> is wikipedia on the go slow for anyone else or just me?
[13:38] <imbrandon> mhall119: sure it happens every day as far as buying a new pc for that or less, i've seen ppl buy new pc's when they got a virus
[13:38] <jokerdino> s-fox: how slow is too slow? it loads within a couple of seconds here
[13:39] <s-fox> jokerdino,  it is crawling for me ;)
[13:39] <imbrandon> seems ok here s-fox
[13:39] <s-fox> Okay, thanks for looking
[13:39] <s-fox> well, the homepage loads quickly but the articles aren't for me
[13:39] <imbrandon> mhall119: and i do appologize i dident mean for the convo to degrade to that, i really would like to finish it in persons sometime :)
[13:40] <popey> \o/ beer at UDS
[13:40] <imbrandon> :)
[13:40] <cjohnston> +2
[13:40] <jokerdino> -1, I won't be at UDS.
[13:40]  * imbrandon hates feeling like a troll
[13:40] <cjohnston> imbrandon will tell you when to start drinking
[13:41] <imbrandon> haha
[13:41] <imbrandon> good call
[13:41] <imbrandon> jokerdino: just grab a g+ hangout mic and a beer, we'll broadcast
[13:41] <imbrandon> :)
[13:41] <cjohnston> not I said drinking not when to grab a beer.. this is much more than an "a beer" conversation
[13:42] <cjohnston> s/not/note
[13:42] <jokerdino> remote beer drinking? haha
[13:42] <imbrandon> depends on the beer, a good dark stout dosent go down so fast :)
[13:42] <mhall119> imbrandon: you will be at UDS?
[13:43] <imbrandon> and by the end you get jono dancing with a bottle http://farm1.staticflickr.com/187/381427501_beabe75fa1_o.jpg  <- i was there !!
[13:43] <imbrandon> mhall119: yup
[13:44] <mhall119> imbrandon: we can definitely finish it over some drinks then
[13:45] <imbrandon> just promis no bottle dancing :)
[13:45] <s-fox> confirmed wikipedia is going boing
[13:45] <mhall119> I can promise that I won't
[13:45] <mhall119> I can't speak for jono though
[13:46] <imbrandon> hahah , i'll distract him, he worked very very very hard to keep that photo off the interwebs too btw
[13:46] <imbrandon> :)
[13:46] <mhall119> and yet the hotdog costume was *everywhere*
[13:46] <imbrandon> there was a better one too but cant find it
[13:46] <imbrandon> haha
[13:47] <mhall119> imbrandon: did you see http://mhall119.com/2012/02/the-many-sides-of-jono-bacon/ ?
[13:47] <imbrandon> brb , gonna see if i can find something quick to rummage up for breakfast
[13:47]  * imbrandon loks
[13:47] <imbrandon> hahah no
[13:47] <imbrandon> i'll look closer when i get back
[13:47] <imbrandon> :)
[13:48] <imbrandon> zomg, that is priceless
[13:48] <imbrandon> ok ok i looked closer before i left
[13:49] <imbrandon> but yea , priceless
[13:49] <imbrandon> you make that mhall119 ?
[13:49] <imbrandon> dude , even his wife commented
[13:49] <imbrandon> hahah classic
[14:02] <mhall119> imbrandon: yeah I made it
[14:09] <imbrandon> heh i seen one for devlopers and thought it was good, but that one, man i hope Erica framed it
[14:11] <imbrandon> cold spagatti , breakfast of champions , only thing better is fruity pebbles with mt dew ( for milk )
[14:11] <mhall119> um, ew
[14:12] <mhall119> although...I could go for some fruity pebbles
[14:39] <technoviking> jcastro: think I got it OpenID working!!! Just need  login.ununtu.com to accept requests from the test forums
[14:39] <s-fox> woot technoviking
[15:55] <technoviking> jcastro: tiaz is seeing if it is a fix from their end.
[15:56] <technoviking> quiet today, too quiet:)
[16:36] <komputes> http://askubuntu.com/questions/38789/remove-the-workspace-switcher-launcher-from-unity-launcher
[16:37] <komputes> ^ just realized all solutions with the same rating shift from one visit to another
[16:37] <komputes> smart way to give each one a chance to be on top
[16:44] <s-fox> jokerdino,  thanks for the blog comment
[16:44] <s-fox> :)
[17:07] <s-fox> Goodbye.
[18:06] <bkerensa> mhall119: Do you have access to the Ubuntu FB page and possibly the Ubuntu G+ and Ubuntu Dev G+?
[18:06] <bkerensa> :)
[18:07] <bkerensa> dholbach is out for the day and I wanted to get the Ubuntu 12.04 Development Update out on the social media
[18:34] <Atlantic777> Hi guys! I need your opinion and help, or a psychotherapeutist...
[18:34] <Atlantic777> Well, there is a crew which started an e-magazine, I joined them, helped them organise, and we are about to publish our 0 release.
[18:35] <Atlantic777> There are some guys which are working their job really great but there are some conflicts, of course...
[18:36] <Atlantic777> The guy A simply ignores guy B. Guy A is my good friend which I like very, very much and who will help me always. Guy B started whole this idea.
[18:36] <Atlantic777> Should I try to make peace or simply tell them the truth and keep them both in my team in spite of they don't like eachother?
[18:37] <Atlantic777> Please, ping me if anybody has any opinion or hint what to do. Thanks in advance. ;)
[18:43] <mhall119> bkerensa: I have Ubuntu on FB, and Unity on G+
[18:44] <mhall119> bkerensa: linky?
[18:44] <bkerensa> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/03/29/ubuntu-12-04-development-update-20/
[18:44] <bkerensa> also on omg
[18:59] <mhall119> bkerensa: done
[19:03] <balloons> Atlantic777, :-) sounds like the real world..Being stuck between two people like that can be hard
[19:08] <pleia2> mhall119: beta2 isn't out yet ;)
[19:08] <pleia2> but I'll get that up on fridge too when it is
[19:09] <balloons> it's very close :-)
[19:14] <mhall119> pleia2: it isn't? doh!
[19:14]  * mhall119 blames bkerensa 
[19:15] <bkerensa> What?
[19:16] <bkerensa> mhall119: It is not my fault .... blame dholbach who decided to take the day off :P
[19:16] <bkerensa> he signed off on it anyways
[19:16] <bkerensa> :)
[19:16] <bkerensa> and it says "set to be released" which is not guaranteed
[19:22] <bkerensa> pleia2: it is out?
[19:22] <pleia2> where is that bot that says "no" :P
[19:22] <bkerensa> It has been out since 11am PST?
[19:23] <pleia2> skaet will send out a release announcement
[19:23] <bkerensa> well :P then OMG announcing it as being out and many other sites must be in error
[19:23] <pleia2> they always announce early
[19:23] <pleia2> (have done this for years)
[19:24] <bkerensa> ahh
[19:24] <bkerensa> :D
[19:24] <pleia2> we wait for the official announcement from the release manager :)
[19:25] <pleia2> the news sites get revenue from their posts, so announcing early gets them hits before their competitors and so they get the traffic first
[19:25] <pleia2> fridge, not so much
[19:26] <Atlantic777> balloons: huh, it's harder than I thought... :(
[19:26] <Atlantic777> I'm having conversation with the B guy and it's... not looking good.
[19:26] <pleia2> Atlantic777: it's not an easy spot to be in and I've seen projects fail due to conflicts like this, you just need to do the best you can and walk away if it becomes unresolvable (full circle magazine always needs help :))
[19:26] <czajkowski> bkerensa: omg is not offical now is it
[19:28] <bkerensa> czajkowski: Obviously not
[20:44] <balloons> hey cjohnston --- you ready for me to break your pc again?
[20:45] <cjohnston> no
[21:01] <Atlantic777> huh it's over -.-'
[21:01] <Atlantic777> and it's good, somehow :D
[21:03] <pleia2> bkerensa: ok, now it's released :)
[21:05] <balloons> cjohnston, hehe.. well.. prepare yourself :-)
[22:31]  * balloons crosses fingers
[22:55] <greg-g> popey: btw, that #goupstream is Go Up Stream not Goup Stream :)
[22:55] <popey> hmm?
[22:56] <greg-g> see twitter
[22:57] <popey> oh, i see
[22:59] <popey> redmine needs a kick in the teeth
[22:59] <popey> searching for a y'know, "file a bug" button
[22:59] <greg-g> yeah yeah
[22:59] <popey> oh, they're issues
[22:59] <popey> not bugs
[22:59] <popey> bah
[22:59] <greg-g> well, you need to create an account, just like on every bug tracker :)
[23:00] <popey> yeah, already done that
[23:00] <popey> you login, then it lists "bugs"
[23:01] <popey> but then to file a "bug" you click "new issue", not "new bug" or "file bug" or anything super logical
[23:01] <popey> anyway, done
[23:01] <popey> http://redmine.yorba.org/issues/4976
[23:01] <popey> also, joy, i cant link lp to it
[23:02] <popey> "Shotwell uses trac.yorba.org/ to track its bugs. If you know this bug has been reported there, you can link to it; Launchpad will keep track of its status for you."
[23:02] <popey> yet my link is redmine., not trac.
[23:02] <greg-g> well, that seems to be LP's fault
[23:03] <greg-g> the admin of the shotwell project needs to update the LP info
[23:03] <greg-g> which, you know, every upstream is the admin of the LP project for their package ;)
[23:03] <popey> as the shipped photo app in ubuntu they should be more attentive :p
[23:04] <greg-g> "sure" :)
[23:04] <popey> ☺
[23:04] <popey> right, now to my third bug of the evening
[23:05] <greg-g> nice
[23:05] <greg-g> is this one for LP itself? :)
[23:06] <popey> haha
[23:09] <greg-g> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/341895
[23:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 341895 in launchpad ""Launchpad does not recognize" upstream URL: should gracefully handle links from unregistered bugtrackers" [Low,Triaged]
[23:09] <greg-g> jcastro: already reported it for you/us BACK IN 2009! :)
[23:11]  * popey clicks 'affects me'
[23:12]  * popey notes he is one of _two_ people it affects
[23:12] <popey> \o/ go me and him!