/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/03/30/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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* stgraber waves18:01
ajmitchhi18:01
highvoltage*swoosh*18:01
* ajmitch just needs to look up the runes for meetingology 18:02
ajmitch#startmeeting Application Review Board18:02
meetingologyMeeting started Fri Mar 30 18:02:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is ajmitch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic:
ajmitch#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda18:03
ajmitchsorry, still waking up :)18:03
ajmitchok, we'll begin on that action review, I'll quickly go throuh & check what's still there from last month18:04
ajmitch#topic Action review18:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic: Action review
ajmitchwendar: you were going to check with doko about when python-support will be removed from the archive, I'm guessing the answer is whenever it's not used anymore?18:06
wendaryup18:06
wendarit's moved to universe for Precise18:06
wendarwhich is still fine for Extras dependencies18:07
wendarbut, right now we're manually removing it from packages18:07
wendarso, I suggest we keep doing that in Precise18:07
ajmitchright, it's easier to use dh_python2 anyway18:07
wendarand expect it may be gone from P+118:07
wendaryeah, I much prefer dh_python218:08
ajmitchok, will mark that action as done18:08
* ajmitch hasn't seen any movement on bug 894582, might be getting a bit late to get it fixed for precise unless it's done this week18:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 894582 in python-distutils-extra "Python templates should use dh_python2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89458218:09
ajmitchanyone else feel inspired to take that on & see if it can be fixed for release?18:10
* stgraber -> ENOTIME18:11
ajmitchstgraber: yeah, that's what I figured :)18:11
ajmitchI'll add it to my todo list then, but I don't have a great amount of spare time either right now18:11
wendarhow about UDS?18:12
ajmitchwendar: sorry?18:12
wendaras in, talk about it at UDS and see if we can get some TUITs from elsewhere?18:12
ajmitchah right, I was mostly wanting it for precise release, so people who build on precise can make packages that we don't have to change too much18:12
wendarIf we could get it on mvo's list for next cycle, that'd be great18:12
wendarit seems too disruptive for an FFE18:13
ajmitchI'll try for this week, otherwise sort it at UDS18:13
wendaryup, sounds good18:13
ajmitch#action ajmitch to look at bug #89458218:14
meetingologyACTION: ajmitch to look at bug #89458218:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 894582 in python-distutils-extra "Python templates should use dh_python2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/89458218:14
ajmitchok, now onto the developer-portal bugs18:14
* highvoltage is listening, even though quiet18:15
* ajmitch also hasn't seen any activity on there, and hasn't emailed david pitkin back, to nag him 18:15
ajmitchhighvoltage: it's ok, you can keep quiet & we'll assign the rest of the tasks to you :)18:16
wendarheh18:16
highvoltageI've already been a bad rmb member regarding my tasks already :(18:16
ajmitchheh18:17
ajmitchwell, I'll see what I can do about nagging about bugs again in this case :)18:17
ajmitch#topic When should we open extras for precise?18:18
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic: When should we open extras for precise?
ajmitchwendar: your topic18:18
wendarI'd like to suggest opening up the extras archive for precise now.18:18
wendarinstead of waiting until after the precise release18:18
wendarso we can publish a few apps ahead of time, and have them available in the software center at release18:19
ajmitchok, I'm not opposed to that, as a development platform precise won't really change in the next few weeks18:19
ajmitchstgraber, highvoltage - what do you think of it?18:20
stgraberyeah, opening now (post-beta2) should be safe18:21
highvoltageyeah sooner is probably better than later18:21
stgraberit's very unlikely any of the submissions would be pushed to Ubuntu before release (with FFe and all the other paperwork)18:21
* ajmitch doesn't feel like voting on it, so we'll take that as agreed18:21
wendarwho wants to turn it on?18:22
wendarstgraber has done it in the past18:22
ajmitchwhere is that done?18:22
stgraberwendar: the repository is already ready for precise, but someone probably needs to check that MyApps is too18:23
wendarstgraber: so if we published to the Extras PPA today, it would be copied over?18:23
stgraberwendar: yes18:23
wendarstgraber: excellent18:24
ajmitchthen for existing packages in the queue (of which there are many), should we switch to targetting them to precise?18:25
wendarajmitch: that's my next question on the agenda18:26
ajmitchwendar: right, I'll change the topic for it :)18:26
ajmitch#agreed Open extras for packages before precise release18:26
ajmitch#topic Should we review existing packages for precise?18:26
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic: Should we review existing packages for precise?
wendarI've got a few more lenses/scopes that are specific to Oneiric, but for all other submissions, I'd like to package it for Precise instead.18:27
wendarit just seems silly to be releasing new apps on Oneiric two weeks before the Precise release.18:27
ajmitchI expect most people will upgrade from oneiric, so if an app builds & works on precise they should go there18:27
ajmitchI don't think most submissions indicate which release they're targetting18:28
highvoltageajmitch: but they should, shouldn't they?18:28
wendaryeah, I guess if we find into some that only build and run on Oneiric, it's worth considering publishing them to Oneiric, instead of making the developer fix them up18:28
wendarhighvoltage: we generally just dictate that they all target the current release18:29
wendarhighvoltage: so, indicating any other release is just a "bug" in their submission, that we fix before shipping it18:29
highvoltageok18:30
ajmitchlike a recent submission that had maverick in debian/changelog, though it didn't build on oneiric18:30
ajmitchok, I guess we're agreed that it's generally a good idea to do reviews for precise18:30
ajmitch#topic Notify developers with published Oneiric apps of process for resubmitting for Precise.18:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic: Notify developers with published Oneiric apps of process for resubmitting for Precise.
ajmitchwendar: you added this one earlier today, I'm guessing we don't have a large number of applications which should be resubmitted for precise18:33
wendarYup, a pretty small number.18:33
wendarThis was mainly a follow up to the last two topics.18:33
wendarTo say: I'll volunteer to send a personal email to everyone who already has an app in Oneiric.18:34
ajmitchyeah, cielak was asking about this process as well18:34
ajmitchgreat18:34
wendarTelling them that we've opened up the archive for submissions to Precise.18:34
wendarAnd, if they want to get their app in before release, they can do it now.18:34
ajmitchwill they need to resubmit through myapps, even if it's not a new upstream release?18:35
wendarHow about we say they can either submit to MyApps, or just contact us on the mailing list?18:35
ajmitchor in cases like harmonyseq, should we just bump the version number in the changelog for precise?18:36
* ajmitch isn't sure if just copying packages in the PPA will work)18:36
wendarI don't think we even need to bump the version number in the changelog, as long as we rebuild with precise as the target in the changelog18:36
wendarI mean, bump the version number if we have to make any changes other than the release target18:37
wendarbut, otherwise, it's just a rebuild18:37
ajmitchthe debian revision needs changed at least, from ...11.10.1 to 12.04.118:37
stgraberwendar: well, then we need to bump the version18:37
stgraberwendar: as you can't have two binary packages in the repository with the same version but different content18:37
wendarstgraber: yeah, true enough18:37
stgraberwendar: so we either copy to the new series (and use exactly the same binary package) or we rebuild and then need to bump the version at the same time18:37
wendarsimple version bump as a "rebuild for precise"18:38
wendarI'd rather rebuild than copy the binary package18:38
* stgraber too18:38
ajmitchok18:39
stgraberso bump to .12.04 and upload for these that don't need any extra change (when told by the developer they want it in precise)18:39
wendarajmitch: that's true, the debian revision has to change, since we have the Ubuntu release version number in the package version string18:39
ajmitch#action allison to send a personal email to everyone who already has an app in Oneiric.18:39
meetingologyACTION: allison to send a personal email to everyone who already has an app in Oneiric.18:39
ajmitchanything else on that one, or do we move onto the big topic about the queue state? :)18:40
wendaronward :)18:40
ajmitch#topic State Of The Queue18:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Application Review Board Meeting | Current topic: State Of The Queue
ajmitchso though I had good intentions a week or so ago, I haven't had time to really look at & comment on applications this week, have just casually looked at some recent submissions18:41
wendarI've been doing quick replies on the ones that need quick fixes18:42
ajmitchthe queue length is long, I'm been meaning to work from the top down18:42
wendarso, a lot of what's left is either valid source packages (with no debian packaging)18:42
* ajmitch has some spare time this weekend18:42
wendaror debian packages that need validating for ARB requirements18:43
wendarsome exceptions to that are the Community Lens18:44
ajmitchpackages like zeroballistics needs a careful rejection sent, as it looks to be a nice game, gpl source, but it depends on a non-free library18:44
wendarah, yeah, that would be out18:44
ajmitchwendar: what's the state of the music lenses in the queue there?18:44
wendarI've got a patch back from the developer to fix the final problems18:45
wendarso, I just need to integrate that, test, and put them up for vote18:45
ajmitchok18:45
wendarI could do that today or tomorrow18:45
wendarthe community lens is for precise, so no hurry on that one18:45
* ajmitch would like to be able to get rid of these 'pending qa' items from the list18:46
wendaryeah, that's one of the active bugs, isn't it?18:46
ajmitchyep18:46
ajmitchthe bug is fix committed (iirc)18:46
wendarso, just waiting for release?18:46
wendar(where release is their server rollout schedule, rather than related to Ubuntu releases)18:47
ajmitchI assume so, stgraber may know a few more details about how these bits interact18:47
wendarhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/91466718:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 914667 in Developer registration portal "Packages in the ARB process should go directly to Published without going to "Ready to Publish"" [High,Fix committed]18:47
ajmitchfix committed 6 weeks ago, maybe it has been rolled out & we can mark them as published :)18:49
wendarmaybe check with achuni?18:50
wendaror, ask in the ticket?18:50
ajmitchI'll do that18:50
wendarof all the bugs, this one is probably the biggest irritant at the moment18:50
wendarcool, thanks18:50
* ajmitch would probably put that on par with the needs info submissions not showing18:50
ajmitchany other comments on the state of the queue, apart from 'just do it'?18:51
wendara whole bunch of them are new submissions with no packaging18:51
wendarbut, we agreed a few months ago to only accept new submissions from PPAs18:51
ajmitchI'll check for a bug on developer-portal about requiring PPAs at submit time18:51
wendarit does now18:52
wendarhttp://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/my-apps-packages/18:52
wendaror, at least the instructions are right now18:52
wendarI totally think we should do the packaging for the old apps that were submitted before we said we required PPAs18:52
ajmitchright, but at the point you submit, does it require a PPA be given?18:52
wendarnope, not yet18:52
wendarso, I wouldn't reject the apps with no PPA18:52
ajmitchok, I'll check for that one18:52
wendarbut, I'm thinking it would be a better use of my time to write a step-by-step set of instructions on how to package new apps18:53
wendarthan to manually do the packaging for the new submissions18:53
ajmitchit can be a bit time-consuming :)18:53
wendarAye, and it'll only get more time-consuming as we go on18:54
wendarit doesn't scale18:54
wendarbut, if we could give them a really polite and helpful way to do the packaging themselves, that'd make a difference18:54
wendarand would scale better18:54
ajmitchthe packaging guide still confuses quite a few people18:54
wendaralso, I think a guide on how to make a tarball would be helpful18:54
ajmitchthat would help, people are still submitting .jar files18:55
wendarthe packaging guide is also for the main Ubuntu archives, and not for the ARB requirements18:55
wendarso, even when we do get proper debian source packages, we still have to manually edit them18:56
ajmitchyep18:56
wendarI figure if I condense the instructions I've already sent out individually to a bunch of devs into a few simple wiki pages, it could help us a lot18:56
ajmitchit'd help us as well18:57
ajmitchthanks for offering to do that18:57
wendarcool, I'll do that this weekend18:57
wendarand, if you're doing packaging work this weekend, focus on the older submissions, from before the PPA requirement18:57
ajmitchI realised I skipped the 'review updated text', but iirc that was an agenda meeting from last time which we resolved?18:58
wendarit was new... just a sec let me check what it was...18:58
wendarIt might have been https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review18:58
wendarspecifying the right URL for screenshot images18:59
ajmitchthe agenda item was about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines, depending on backported libraries which are new18:59
wendarOh, no, it was backported libraries18:59
wendaryeah18:59
wendarafter discussion on IRC, I added the text:19:00
wendar(We're open to considering dependencies on backported libraries, on a case-by-case basis, but only if the backport is a new library and not an updated version of an existing library.)19:00
wendarand I just wanted a quick double-check that other folks were okay with that19:00
ajmitchimho the text that's been added there is fine19:00
ajmitchstgraber, highvoltage: ^ if you have a sec :)19:01
stgrabersounds good19:02
ajmitchok19:02
stgrabernot sure we can assume everyone has -backports in their /etc/apt/sources.list, but since oneiric we do it by default so I guess it'll be fine19:02
highvoltageno strong feelings about it here :)19:02
ajmitchok then19:03
ajmitchare we up to the AOB point?19:03
wendarNOB from here19:03
ajmitchthe main thing I have is the meeting time - it's that time of year with daylight saving time messes with us19:04
ajmitchfrom next month the meeting time will end up at 6AM on a saturday morning for me, which is a little painful :)19:05
wendarthat's pretty awful19:05
ajmitchit was hard enough getting up for a 7AM meeting this morning, I should have gone to sleep before 2 :)19:05
highvoltageouch19:05
ajmitchdo we want to sort out a new time here, or on the list so our other team members can comment?19:06
wendarprobably finalize it on the list, but a first guess here could speed things up19:06
wendarhttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=App+Review+Board+Meeting+&iso=20120330T1819:06
wendar^ the link to the current meeting time19:06
ajmitchan hour or two later works for me19:08
ajmitchso 1900UTC or 200019:08
wendarstgraber, where are you?19:08
highvoltagestgraber is on east coast, est time19:08
ajmitchhighvoltage: you're in the same place, right?19:09
highvoltageyep19:09
wendarso a little later would probably be fine for both of you19:09
stgraberI'm happy with both 1900 or 2000 UTC19:09
highvoltageyep19:09
ajmitchI think if coolbhavi is able to make it, he's indicated that a slightly later time is better19:10
stgraberI'll be in Europe for our next meeting but will probably skip it anyway, so that's fine :)19:10
wendarBhavani doesn't usually make it to the meetings, so I think it's okay not to plan them around Calcutta time19:10
ajmitchstgraber: skip it? how could yo? :)19:10
stgraber:)19:10
ajmitchok, I'll mail the list about the new suggested time & ask for feedback19:11
wendarhmmmm... ajmitch: how about flipping the meeting around to Friday afternoon your time?19:11
wendarFriday morning US time?19:11
ajmitchwendar: it'd need to be after work for me19:11
wendarsorry, backwards19:11
ajmitchso from 0500UTC onwards19:12
wendarugh, timezones19:12
ajmitchyeah19:12
wendarjust a sec I'll do meeting planner19:12
wendarhttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html19:12
ajmitchI didn't think it'd work well for east coast people then19:12
ajmitchUTC+12 is at least easy to convert :)19:12
wendarhttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20120427&p1=137&p2=179&p3=2219:13
wendarajmitch: it's actually easy enough, as long as you're not also trying to accommodate Europe19:13
ajmitchwell, we have fagan in europe, but I haven't even seen him on irc for a couple of months19:14
wendaryeah, the meetings aren't critical, so might as well optimize the time for the people who attend19:14
wendarajmitch: is Saturday easier than Friday for you?19:14
ajmitchyes19:14
wendarajmitch: just not so early?19:15
ajmitchjust not 6AM19:15
wendarajmitch: like Saturday at 10/11am?19:16
ajmitchfine by me19:16
wendarthat's pushing into Friday night for the US Eastern folks19:16
wendarmaybe a bit of a drag for personal life19:16
highvoltageok by me if I know about it in advance19:17
wendar9am Auckland is 5pm Eastern19:17
wendar10am Auckland is 6pm Eastern19:17
wendarthat's late enough for a Saturday sleep in Auckland, but early enough to still go out in US Eastern19:18
stgraberhmm, 6pm on a Friday... not sure I'll be around. 5pm is fine though19:18
* ajmitch doesn't mind 7 or 8 AM 19:18
ajmitchso that's why I was suggesting just 1900/2000 if it still suited others19:18
wendarhttp://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2012&month=4&day=27&hour=21&min=0&sec=0&p1=137&p2=179&p3=2219:18
ajmitch2pm ok for you?19:19
wendaryeah, 2pm is fine for me19:19
wendar(pacific time)19:19
ajmitchok19:20
wendar5pm eastern19:20
wendar9am auckland19:20
ajmitchseems to work19:20
ajmitchlast thing is to volunteer a chair for next month19:20
ajmitchit'll be about a day after the precise release, fwiw19:21
wendarso not stgraber19:22
wendarhighvoltage? or I'm happy to do one19:22
ajmitchup to the 3 of us I think19:22
stgraberyeah, I'll be in Europe and I took the post-release Friday off, so definitely not arund :)19:22
wendarajmitch: we shouldn't make you do two in a row19:23
ajmitchstgraber: have a drink for us then ;)19:23
wendarput me in19:23
ajmitchok, thank you19:23
ajmitchwith that, I think we're done19:23
ajmitchthanks everyone :)19:24
stgraberthanks!19:24
ajmitch#endmeeting19:24
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Fri Mar 30 19:24:25 2012 UTC.19:24
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-30-18.02.moin.txt19:24
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-30-18.02.html19:24
wendarthanks ajmitch!19:25
highvoltagewendar: sorry I got distracted, yep I'm up for it19:26
highvoltage(oops you already volunteered, nm then :) )19:26
highvoltagethanks ajmitch19:26
wendarhighvoltage: no worries, feel free to substitute your name on the Agenda page19:27

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