[00:00] <ali1234> Azelphur: have you tried espeak?
[00:01] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, it's a little better but still not great
[00:01] <Azelphur> the voices seem really really deep on it too for some reason
[00:02] <ali1234> so change the pitch?
[00:03] <Azelphur> yea I played around with it a lot, it's just not really approaching the web based ones I've seen
[00:03] <ali1234> espeak -p 0 -s 80
[00:03] <ali1234> ^ sarcasm machine
[00:03] <Azelphur> lol
[00:08] <gordonjcp> yes wub | flite -f -
[00:08] <gordonjcp> ^ autodubstep
[00:08] <ali1234> yes oo | espeak -p 0 -s 80
[00:09] <ali1234> i don't know what it is but its very annoying
[00:09] <Azelphur> haha
[00:13] <ali1234> flite isn't that bad
[00:16] <Azelphur> ali1234: reverse engineered the protocol on that web demo and implemented it in python
[00:16] <Azelphur> \m/
[00:17] <ali1234> flite -voice rms is quite good actually
[00:17]  * Azelphur has a nose at that
[00:18] <Azelphur> this works though, I can shove anything I want at the acapela demo now :)
[00:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: seems kinda wobbly, but it is a step up :)
[00:19] <ali1234> they will clearly ban you though
[00:19] <Azelphur> *shrug* maybe, I'm only doing one small call every day, I'll probably never be noticed.
[00:19] <Azelphur> it's only for personal use, not like I'm releasing it or anything
[06:30] <ball> Mornin'
[06:43] <ball> Hello webpigeo1
[07:58] <popey> Morning!
[07:59] <ball> Mornin' popey!
[08:52] <Myrtti> morning
[09:02]  * ball waves
[09:06] <AlanBell> Azelphur: use openMary, it is really good
[09:11] <AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/
[09:13] <AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/process?INPUT_TYPE=TEXT&OUTPUT_TYPE=AUDIO&INPUT_TEXT=Azelphur%20this%20sounds%20OK%20to%20me%2C%20what%20do%20you%20think%3F&OUTPUT_TEXT=&effect_Volume_selected=&effect_Volume_parameters=amount%3A2.0%3B&effect_Volume_default=Default&effect_Volume_help=Help&effect_TractScaler_selected=&effect_TractScaler_parameters=amount%3A1.5%3B&effect_TractScaler_default=Default&effect_TractScaler_help=Help&effect_F0Scale ...
[09:13] <AlanBell> ... _selected=&effect_F0Scale_parameters=f0Scale%3A2.0%3B&effect_F0Scale_default=Default&effect_F0Scale_help=Help&effect_F0Add_selected=&effect_F0Add_parameters=f0Add%3A50.0%3B&effect_F0Add_default=Default&effect_F0Add_help=Help&effect_Rate_selected=&effect_Rate_parameters=durScale%3A1.5%3B&effect_Rate_default=Default&effect_Rate_help=Help&effect_Robot_selected=&effect_Robot_parameters=amount%3A100.0%3B&effect_Robot_default=Default&effect_Ro ...
[09:13] <AlanBell> ... bot_help=Help&effect_Whisper_selected=&effect_Whisper_parameters=amount%3A100.0%3B&effect_Whisper_default=Default&effect_Whisper_help=Help&effect_Stadium_selected=&effect_Stadium_parameters=amount%3A100.0&effect_Stadium_default=Default&effect_Stadium_help=Help&effect_Chorus_selected=&effect_Chorus_parameters=delay1%3A466%3Bamp1%3A0.54%3Bdelay2%3A600%3Bamp2%3A-0.10%3Bdelay3%3A250%3Bamp3%3A0.30&effect_Chorus_default=Default&effect_Chorus_h ...
[09:13] <AlanBell> ... elp=Help&effect_FIRFilter_selected=&effect_FIRFilter_parameters=type%3A3%3Bfc1%3A500.0%3Bfc2%3A2000.0&effect_FIRFilter_default=Default&effect_FIRFilter_help=Help&effect_JetPilot_selected=&effect_JetPilot_parameters=&effect_JetPilot_default=Default&effect_JetPilot_help=Help&HELP_TEXT=&exampleTexts=&VOICE_SELECTIONS=dfki-obadiah-hsmm%20en_GB%20male%20hmm&AUDIO_OUT=WAVE_FILE&LOCALE=en_GB&VOICE=dfki-obadiah-hsmm&AUDIO=WAVE_FILE
[09:13] <AlanBell> ooops
[09:13] <jussi> AlanBell: fail!
[09:13] <jussi> :D
[09:13] <AlanBell> http://bit.ly/HvCVg5
[09:14] <AlanBell> as you can see, it has a restful web interface with lots of parameters you can pass in the URL string :)
[09:15] <AlanBell> the Obadiah and Prudence voices are quite good
[09:15]  * ball hides
[09:22] <Myrtti> oh dear.
[09:24] <AlanBell> http://mary.opendfki.de/wiki/4.3.1 I should install the latest version
[09:24] <AlanBell> oh, won't help for web based traffic, just local sockets
[09:32] <czajkowski> *yawns*
[09:32] <czajkowski> morning
[09:53] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:00] <brobostigon> !info gnome-shell precise
[10:00] <brobostigon> !info gnome-shell unstable
[10:00] <brobostigon> that answers that question.
[10:03] <AlanBell> we have a newer gnome-shell than Debian?
[10:04] <brobostigon> yes.
[10:24] <AlanBell> oops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvncFwCkmA
[10:25] <AlanBell> luckily youtube has a facility to rotate videos
[10:26] <bigcalm> I thought that was just for trolling
[10:27] <AlanBell> edit in progress, somewhere out in the cloud a server is working quite hard to flip that video
[10:44] <bigcalm> Would be nice if that was the actual message that YouTube displayed
[10:47] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvncFwCkmA right way up now
[11:56] <czajkowski> want to help someone out and gain some karma . https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/192171
[12:00] <AlanBell> ooh, that looks like a nasty bug
[12:01] <AlanBell> that is a "did anyone even think about testing this stuff??" kind of bug
[12:01] <czajkowski> aye but he logged it as a question to launhcpad
[12:01] <AlanBell> sure, it is a good question
[12:01] <AlanBell> so I had a back up now button active
[12:02] <czajkowski> so removed it from lp and back to ubuntu
[12:02] <AlanBell> I hit the automatic backup switch and the backup now button greys out
[12:02] <brobostigon> Files /usr/share/aiccu/conf-templates/aiccu.conf and /etc/aiccu.conf differ
[12:02] <brobostigon> aptitude safe-upgrade is sticking at that, wont go any further, how do i get it to continue?
[12:02] <AlanBell> click the switch again and the backup now button stays greyed out and I can't get it back
[12:04] <gordonjcp> check that the "require password" box hasn't popped up somewhere
[12:04] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: just spotted that, it is a popunder
[12:04] <gordonjcp> if I select "Automatic backups" on, it pops that dialogue up but it's hidden
[12:04] <gordonjcp> although it does shake the backup icon in the mac tray thing
[12:14] <gordonjcp> that definitely seems to be it
[13:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road  31st March 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=140
[13:34] <Myrtti> updating to precise...
[13:35]  * brobostigon crosses his fingers for Myrtti, hoping for no breakage.
[13:38] <gord> i upgraded a revo in norway remotely from lucid to oneiric and the only issue i encountered was it removed the nvidia driver, everything else just worked, very impressive
[13:39] <brobostigon> thats good to hear, as i have been thinking about updating my vps.
[13:51] <ali1234> you have to be careful when upgrading VPS
[13:51] <ali1234> they usually use a custom kernel
[13:51] <ali1234> that can cause lots of problems
[13:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: in this case, as i am with bitfolk, and they use xen, it uses that kernel.
[13:55] <popey> i use a stock ubuntu kernel on my vps
[13:55] <popey> i think
[13:55] <popey> Linux bishop.popey.com 2.6.32-316-ec2 #31-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 18 14:09:06 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
[13:55] <popey> yeah, the ec2 kernel
[13:55] <ali1234> with common virtualization systems you don't get a choice in the kernel used
[13:55] <ali1234> ie parallels
[13:56] <ali1234> my VPS uses 2.6.18-028stab094.3
[13:56] <brobostigon> Linux ptaylor 2.6.32-38-generic-pae #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 12:11:13 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
[13:56] <brobostigon> i am totally wrong, i uses standard kernel.
[13:57] <ali1234> it used to use 2.6.9 i think
[13:57] <ali1234> i had to do a reimage to get the kernel upgraded though
[13:57] <ali1234> anyway, always check this before upgrading a VPS, because if it's really old the upgraded install just won't boot at all
[13:59] <brobostigon> it will be lts to lts.
[14:01] <popey> yeah, make sure you have serial console access
[14:01] <popey> I wouldn't upgrade a public facing vps to 12.04 yet
[14:02]  * AlanBell has customer stuff running 12.04
[14:02] <brobostigon> i agree, i am just trying to plan.
[14:18]  * Daviey has some stuff still running dapper. :o
[14:28] <ali1234> looking forward to 12.04.1
[14:28] <ali1234> multiarch will really save me a lot of trouble
[14:28] <hamitron> 12.04 is out?
[14:28] <ali1234> no :(
[14:28] <ali1234> but i'm not going to put 12.04 on a production system
[14:29]  * czajkowski pokes Daviey 
[14:29] <hamitron> I'm thinking of putting it on my gaming rig
[14:30] <hamitron> so only issue if it went wrong, would be a bad tempered hamitron ;)
[14:30] <AlanBell> go for it
[14:30] <AlanBell> do the upgrade and file bugs if things are not right
[14:30] <hamitron> only when released
[14:31] <AlanBell> bugs are harder to fix after release
[14:31] <AlanBell> especially if they are things that get burned to the CDs
[14:31] <hamitron> only got 128kbit internet atm
[14:31] <hamitron> (throttled)
[14:40] <Myrtti> The upgrade has completed but there were errors during the upgrade
[14:40] <Myrtti> process.
[14:40] <Myrtti> :-|
[15:03] <Myrtti> right, Unity didn't start :-|
[15:07] <popey> Myrtti: unity --reset
[15:08] <popey> also, just make sure there's no outstanding packages needing configuring with a dpkg --configure -a
[15:13] <Myrtti> all the stuff from the top bar is gone
[15:13] <Myrtti> starting to regret upgrading :-|
[15:17] <ali1234> stuff?
[15:17] <Myrtti> top bar has only the clock
[15:18] <Myrtti> and now my cursor got stuck
[15:18] <Myrtti> empathy doesn't work...
[15:19] <gord> Myrtti, sounds like you didn't get a full upgrade, try doing a dist-upgrade
[15:19] <gord> or maybe install ubuntu-desktop
[15:21] <kvarley> What software could I use to show a page to the users when they try to make a www request on my wifi network? In hotels they ask you to pay or get a passcode or something. I'm looking to display a php page stating terms of connecting.
[15:28] <Myrtti> oh dear lord
[15:28] <Myrtti> 1015 upgraded, 245 newly installed, 13 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[15:28] <shauno> kvarley, I don't have a shrink-wrapped answer for you, but "captive portal" is your google-fu, if it helps nudge you in the right direction
[15:29] <kvarley> shauno: Thanks so much! I was searching for what I wanted and getting nothing but people patronisingly telling me how to connect to an unsecured wifi network -_-
[15:42] <Myrtti> I just realised that I usually come with my Ubuntu problems here instead of #ubuntu
[15:47] <shauno> I tend to do the same.  I have a "woah the floor's spinning" issue with the shear volume in #ubuntu
[15:49] <mgdm> On that note - anyone know how to make the screensaver secure in Oneiric, so that the menu bar isn't visible?
[15:54] <Myrtti> shauno: I don't have the volume problem - it's just that I don't usually get any answers from there
[16:21] <Azelphur> AlanBell: holy crap that was a long link haha
[16:22] <Azelphur> AlanBell: tis ok, I'll implement it if I ever get messed about with my solution :P
[16:25] <AlanBell> I was trying to work out how much effort it would be to add a new voice
[16:26] <Azelphur> did you see what I did with it in the end?
[16:27] <AlanBell> no
[16:27] <Azelphur> AlanBell: I found one of those high quality demos online, and reverse engineered the protocol the flash app uses to talk to the server :P
[16:28] <AlanBell> how does openmary compare?
[16:29] <Azelphur> not /great/
[16:29] <Azelphur> http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html check out UK Peter
[16:30] <AlanBell> ok will do later, I am on a slow gprs connection now
[16:31] <AlanBell> how does their protocol work?
[16:31] <Azelphur> AlanBell: POST DATA receive partially busted URL to an MP3 stream
[16:31] <Azelphur> your obviously not meant to abuse their web demo though, so personal use only really
[16:31] <Azelphur> but that's fine for me \o/
[16:32] <AlanBell> ok
[16:32] <Azelphur> I can give you the python if you want it, though
[16:33] <AlanBell> that would be great
[16:34] <AlanBell> turn it into a speech dispatcher plugin and it will work with Orca
[16:34] <Azelphur> haha
[16:35] <Azelphur> AlanBell: and then get caught and they block it and then I have no text to speech :(
[16:36] <Azelphur> one sec, I'll clean up the code a bit for some reason I accidentally overwrote my version that streamed it o.O
[16:44] <Myrtti> aw man, this reminds me that once I get this done, I still need to hunt for the Java somewhere
[16:49] <Azelphur> AlanBell: http://pastebin.com/jNg31ax5 couldn't get on_message to call for some reason but you get the idea.
[16:49] <directhex> java /o\
[16:49] <Azelphur> expires in an hour, so save it
[16:50] <Azelphur> time for me to go cook dinner \o/
[16:50] <Myrtti> directhex: I know...
[16:50] <Myrtti> stupid banking solutions...
[16:52] <gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznYifPHxDg ha ;) google maps is everywhere
[16:56] <dvdrw> Looks like an April fool
[16:56] <gord> well, yes obviously ;P
[17:09] <Azelphur> hahaha
[17:09] <Azelphur> the quest butotn actually exists
[17:09] <Azelphur> I'm using it right now
[17:09] <Azelphur> London is a little castle, hahahaha
[17:13] <Azelphur> anyway, hijacking channel to talk about ISAs. does anyone have one, any tips, etc? :P
[17:16] <Azelphur> I hate to say it but I think santander has the best rate, 6.1% for first year
[17:18] <directhex> i think the google maps thing is a promotion for a new dragon quest game
[17:18] <Myrtti> well they need to offer a good interest since they are lending the money to stupid people overspending on weddings and useless tat
[17:19] <Myrtti> (Santander advertises in a Finnish wedding magazine for allowing people to have their dream wedding)
[17:20] <Azelphur> haha
[17:40] <kitsos> Hello everybody.I just connected a logitech webcamera on my pc and i dont see that is active what can i do?
[18:02] <kvarley> Is it possible to use iptables to redirect any new mac addresses to a different location?
[18:16] <Myrtti> oh good grief how difficult it is to find from ccsm how many virtual desktops I want and in what formation
[18:17] <Myrtti> ha, found it
[18:43] <penguin42> kvarley: I think you need something like ebtables for that
[18:45] <kvarley> penguin42: Ok, I'll check it out, thanks.
[18:49] <AlanBell> Azelphur: those Acapela voices are pretty decent
[18:49] <Azelphur> AlanBell: they are indeed
[18:49] <AlanBell> I think OpenMary is quite close though
[18:50] <Azelphur> yea, it's closer than anything else I've seen
[18:53] <AlanBell> http://mary.dfki.de:59125/ try some of the unit selection voices too
[19:02] <Azelphur> AlanBell: spike is very good
[19:11] <Myrtti> dumdidumdidududum...
[19:13] <AlanBell> Azelphur: I am very tempted to make an Alan voice
[19:13] <Azelphur> haha
[19:14] <Azelphur> is it that easy to make a voice?
[19:14] <penguin42> AlanBell: But will your chickens respond to it?
[19:15] <AlanBell> http://mary.opendfki.de/wiki/VoiceImportToolsTutorial
[19:17] <AlanBell> I am trying to find out how much recording you need to do
[19:17] <AlanBell> it would appear that the process is fairly automatic
[19:19] <AlanBell> just read out and record this lot http://paste.ubuntu.com/909176/
[19:20] <AlanBell> or any other text but apparently that is a decent script
[19:20] <AlanBell> create lots of samples along with the transcripts of them and it sorts it out
[19:21] <shauno> I didn't realise it'd be that straightforward.  I wonder if you could find sufficient corpus in a podcast to digitize people unknowingly
[19:21] <popey> Evening all
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> \o popeyx0r
[19:27] <Karti> Hi all, just looking at creating an in house nas using an old pc. Only linux and android to use it. Woul dNFS be the best solution?
[19:29]  * penguin42 isn't sure what Android can use
[19:30] <Karti> android tab is using shared drives at the moment so I hope there should be no issues
[19:58] <dwatkins> some protocols are faster than others if you're serving media - samba is rather slow, for example
[20:26] <Guest84782> can someone please tell me the channel to report 12.04 beta 2 bugs
[20:29] <shaneo1> where can I report a bug please
[20:29] <shaneo1> for ubuntu 12.04
[20:29] <brobostigon> shaneo1: #ubuntu+1
[20:30] <shaneo1> ok thanks :)
[20:30] <popey> shaneo1: want to describe it?
[20:30] <brobostigon> shaneo1: also launchpad, ofcourse, :
[20:30] <brobostigon> :)
[20:30] <shaneo1> when I plug in headphones the audio is not muted on my speakers
[20:30] <shaneo1> it worked in 11.10
[20:31] <popey> shaneo1: what machine?
[20:31] <shaneo1> i did raise a bug for alpha 2, beta 1 but still it remains beta 2
[20:31] <shaneo1> acer aspire 8930 laptop
[20:31] <popey> ah, if there's already a bug reported then you dont need to file a new one
[20:31] <popey> what's the bug number?
[20:32] <shaneo1> Its here I raised it. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/941219
[20:32] <shaneo1> but im a musician and this is extremely annoying.
[20:33] <shaneo1> thats the one
[20:33] <shaneo1> I guess I will just have to wait
[20:33]  * popey clicks
[20:34] <shaneo1> im not sure the jack detect is a part of the alsa driver, im still learning linux
[20:35] <shaneo1> i'll pop along to ubuntu+1 and see what the devs have to say
[20:35] <shaneo1> thanks for your help peeps
[20:45] <popey> shaneo1: I dont think a plethora of devs hang out in +1
[20:52] <shaneo1> no, I guess I will have to be patient
[20:53] <shaneo1> though it is annoying that Ubuntu can be good in one release and then the next broken
[20:54] <shaneo1> Been using ubuntu for the past 2 years, dropped MS and introduced it in my company.
[20:56] <AlanBell> shaneo1: did jack detection on that laptop work in older versions?
[20:56] <shaneo1> sure did
[20:57] <shaneo1> 11.10 being the last time
[21:02] <shaneo1> Think it has something to do with alsa-hda-dkms
[21:28] <czajkowski> aloha
[21:30] <AlanBell> top of the evening to you czajkowski :)
[21:31] <mattt> evening all
[21:31] <czajkowski> am having fun :D https://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/186200303543123968/photo/1
[21:32] <AlanBell> cool!
[21:32] <AlanBell> what does the sky remote do in all that?
[21:32] <czajkowski> keeps the tv on watching old movies
[21:32] <czajkowski> most important
[21:33] <AlanBell> ah right, fair enough :)
[21:33] <AlanBell> what are you making?
[21:33] <Azelphur> occams razor :P
[21:33] <czajkowski> Digital AGC
[21:33] <mattt> what is that mess
[21:33] <czajkowski> on top of a railway censor that measures the height and stagger of over head cables
[21:37] <mattt> AlanBell: has the reading meetup happened yet ?
[21:37] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: nice
[21:38] <czajkowski> aye and I have a arduino set here so we can tuck into that during the weeks that I'm here
[21:39] <mgdm> nice work
[21:39] <gord> czajkowski, how much to arduinos set you back? i know the unit is like £50 or so, but i'm thinking for all the equipment and extras
[21:39] <mgdm> I need to get some breadboards and stuff to use with my arduino + NXP stuff + et
[21:39] <mgdm> c
[21:40] <czajkowski> gord: started kit
[21:40] <mattt> you can get them on ebay for cheap (starter kit)
[21:40] <mattt> straight for hong kong
[21:40] <mgdm> gord: 50 quid? only if you get one with a pile of extras, surely - clones are much cheaper
[21:40] <mattt> *from
[21:41] <czajkowski> gord: http://www.earthshineelectronics.com/10-arduino-starter-kit.html
[21:41] <gord> hummmm, neat
[21:42] <gord> i have the feeling that if i got one i might make it flash an led, declare myself an electical engineer and put it in the cupboard of ignored computer parts though
[21:42] <mattt> gord: same :(
[21:43] <czajkowski> depends
[21:43] <czajkowski> can do lotta funky stuff
[21:43] <czajkowski> plus dad is an electonics enginner
[21:43] <czajkowski> engineer
[21:43] <czajkowski> so somthing new to do together
[21:43] <mattt> haha
[21:43] <mattt> brilliant
[21:43] <gord> yeah, they look like tonnes of fun
[21:44] <mattt> anyone go to wembley today ?
[21:45] <AlanBell> eww, hud on the screen that doesn't have the launcher looks silly :(
[21:46] <AlanBell> mattt: yes, it was thursday
[21:46] <mattt> :(  did many show?
[21:46] <AlanBell> a dozen or so
[21:46] <mattt> wow, that's quite good
[21:46] <mattt> AlanBell: do you ever go to the rdggeek thing ?
[21:46] <AlanBell> no, I am not particularly near to Reading
[21:47] <popey> hmmm
[21:47] <popey> super+tab
[21:47] <popey> then super to get out of it
[21:47] <popey> nothing has focus
[21:48] <popey> AlanBell: do you get that ^^ ?
[21:52] <gord> i get that
[21:55] <popey> also
[21:55] <popey> (I will file that one in a mo)
[21:56] <popey> alt+f1, tap it a few times
[21:56] <popey> when you press the second time it goes back to the app you had open
[21:56] <popey> but the menu bar shows something for a split second before the right title
[21:56] <popey> cant quite make out what it is
[21:56] <popey> might be ubuntu desktop
[21:59] <popey> damnit, super+tab does something completely different as another user
[21:59] <popey> gord: any idea what super+tab is supposed to do?
[22:00] <popey> ah, popup explains it
[22:09] <popey> gord: bug 970420 if you could confirm pls ☺
[22:13] <gord> done done
[22:14] <popey> ta
[22:14] <popey> while you're here ☺
[22:14] <popey> open a terminal, press and hold F1
[22:14] <popey> er
[22:14] <popey> press and hold alt+F1
[22:15] <popey> should toggle the bfb on and off
[22:15] <popey> do you see "crap" in the terminal?
[22:15] <popey> where 'crap' is ;3P over and over
[22:15] <gord> ;3P
[22:15] <gord> yeah
[22:15] <popey> \o/
[22:15] <gord> its a compiz thing
[22:16] <gord> we had the same jibberish with hud alt
[22:18] <popey> bug 970425
[22:18] <popey> pls to be confirming
[22:18] <popey> and/or re-assigning :D
[22:18] <popey> found another too
[22:20] <czajkowski> hmm I seem to have all my applications numbered
[22:20] <czajkowski> and it wont feck off
[22:20] <popey> tab super
[22:21] <popey> i filed that the other day
[22:21] <czajkowski> hmm
[22:31] <popey> bug 970434
[22:39] <Daviey> popey: did you reassign Alt?  I found it a PITA with irssi
[22:43] <popey> no
[22:44] <popey> it doesnt affect me with irssi
[22:44] <popey> EVERY. OTHER. APP. Yes.
[22:44] <popey> :D
[22:45] <popey> apparently more than 1M people have ordered Raspberry Pi ⍨
[22:45] <popey> Imagine if all those ran Ubuntu ☹
[22:48] <hamitron> I thought ubuntu didn't support the cpu?
[22:48] <penguin42> popey: Ordered: 1M  Delivered: About 10
[22:48] <hamitron> well, yeh, lack of cpu is more of an issue ;)
[22:49] <penguin42> and RAM
[22:50] <hamitron> it has plenty of RAM
[22:50] <hamitron> ;/
[22:50] <hamitron> twice that of my VPS
[22:51] <penguin42> what type of VPS is it?
[22:51] <hamitron> when can get them easier, I may even get some for upgrades
[22:51] <hamitron> erm
[22:51] <hamitron> buyvm provides it
[22:51] <hamitron> openvz is it?
[22:52] <hamitron> (I forget the letters after "open")
[22:52] <penguin42> think so, that's running a single kernel though shared between all the guests isn't it
[22:52] <hamitron> yep
[22:53] <popey> hamitron: that was kinda the point of the comment
[22:53] <popey> we _could_ support the CPU
[22:54] <hamitron> yeh, although ubuntu is targeting different stuff really
[22:54] <hamitron> imo
[22:54] <hamitron> it is more high end state of the art stuff
[22:54] <hamitron> :)
[22:55] <popey> or "stuff you can actually buy in a shop and not wait for some people to figure out they need CE mark until long after taking credit card details"
[22:55] <hamitron> haha
[22:55] <popey> easy to say as an onlooker of course
[22:55] <popey> and yes, I have one on order
[22:56] <hamitron> I haven't yet
[22:56] <hamitron> I never rush and jump into things ;)
[22:57] <popey> no wai!
[22:58] <hamitron> gonna try 12.04 quickly though, rather than wait 6 months and be a release behind ;D
[22:59] <directhex> from what i hear, debian-for-pi was largely killed by douchebags being douchey and claiming to speak for the project - enough to scare off the pi people
[22:59] <penguin42> hmm - it would just need a kernel build for it wouldnt it
[23:00] <penguin42> debian user space should run on the pi unchanged
[23:00] <penguin42> (armel not armhf)
[23:01] <hamitron> I thought there was an image
[23:01] <hamitron> assumed it has a kernel and everything needed
[23:07] <popey> there is a debian image, and a fedora one
[23:07] <popey> and iirc an arch one
[23:07] <hamitron> I only downloaded the first
[23:10] <directhex> popey: only one of those is supported long term
[23:10] <directhex> penguin42: a kernel and an installer. but more than that, it requires the pi people not to feel like they're unwanted by hostile devs
[23:11] <penguin42> popey: This should run Ubuntu (with a kernel tweek) - and I'm not betting on which will arrive first: http://www.rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/
[23:12] <penguin42> directhex: It shouldn't actually need an installer; a prebuilt image would work for that type of system
[23:13] <directhex> penguin42: you're still actively ignoring the main issue
[23:13] <penguin42> directhex: which is?
[23:14] <directhex> that the pi people were told to get knotted by members of the debian arm community, so they decided "well sod that"
[23:14] <popey> they were also told not to use the ubuntu name by ubuntu community ☹
[23:14] <penguin42> directhex: That is unfortunate, and I don't know the circumstances behind it; but frankly I don't think the Pi guys exactly handled it well either
[23:15] <directhex> well, yes, they believed that when someone says they speak for debian, that they really do
[23:15] <popey> ditto ubuntu
[23:15] <directhex> popey: plus further detail i won't share
[23:16] <penguin42> directhex: They were saying for months that it would run Ubuntu without ever actually checking whether it could, the chip they chose is not a great choice (old ARM core, video still requires closed binaries although that might get fixed etc) and they've completely ballsed up the release of the hardware
[23:16] <popey> it did run ubuntu
[23:16] <popey> just very old ubuntu
[23:16] <penguin42> popey: Exactly
[23:16] <directhex> penguin42: there will never be "free" drivers for the gpu. the gpu isn't an add-on. it's the other way round. the gpu is the mian chip, the cpu is an afterthought
[23:17] <penguin42> directhex: It's being reverse engineered at the moment
[23:17] <gord> eh the drivers for the gpu are closed? sounds like pulsebo all over again
[23:18] <penguin42> gord: It's normal on ARM, there are very few open ones
[23:18] <popey> ah good old powervr ☹
[23:18] <penguin42> there is PowerVR, Mali and another I forgot; the Mali is being reverse engineered by the Lima project
[23:18] <penguin42> Mali is the one in the chip on the Pi
[23:18] <gord> don't really care if its normal or not, i learnt my lesson
[23:19] <directhex> gord, super-closed.
[23:19] <directhex> penguin42: super wrong.
[23:19] <penguin42> directhex: Please correct me
[23:19] <directhex> penguin42: broadcom videocore iv.
[23:19] <directhex> mali is super open by comparison
[23:20] <penguin42> directhex: Oh great, sorry, I'd seen it said that they had a Mali on the Pi - oh that's even worse then
[23:20] <popey> mali is in the spark/vivaldi
[23:21] <penguin42> directhex: In that case, I'll add an extra brick to my above statement about Pi making a bad choice
[23:21] <directhex> penguin42: it's a high-end DSP running expresslogic threadx, and runs linux on its ARM co-processor via a hypervisor
[23:21] <directhex> penguin42: the GPU is in charge of booting, and won't even boot kernels that aren't signed with a special binary-only tool
[23:22] <penguin42> directhex: And how do Pi work around that?
[23:22] <popey> they ship the binary
[23:22] <penguin42> directhex: Do they have a signed boot loader?
[23:22] <directhex> basically
[23:22] <penguin42> popey: Hmm, so from a debian point of view there is no free way of them building a release?
[23:23] <directhex> the pi is a broadcom side project to sell a lot of their set-top-box chips
[23:23] <directhex> the cpu (arm core) is pretty much the same one from the iphone 1 :p
[23:23] <penguin42> directhex: I think a few of the ARMs have a hypervisor layer, and then a boot loader from the vendor (I think the OMAPs do that), but in there case the boot loader is a very light shim at the hypervisor is only used for a few minor things
[23:26] <directhex> penguin42: in terms of open-friendly chip vendors, broadcom is at the bottom of the pile. hell, they don't even publish datasheets unless you pay
[23:26] <penguin42> directhex: Very few of the ARM vendors do (TI Omap being an exception I think)
[23:27] <directhex> penguin42: TI is one of the best, sadly
[23:28] <penguin42> directhex: The Allwinner A10 in that rhombtech (link above) seems to have source around for the kernels to download, and be very hackable, but I don't think they officially released datasheets (there is a chinese one floating about marked confidential)
[23:28] <penguin42> directhex: sadly why?
[23:28] <directhex> penguin42: best of a bad lot
[23:29] <penguin42> directhex: I'm reasonably happy to pat them on the back for that
[23:29] <directhex> penguin42: assume that a chinese vendor will not follow the GPL.
[23:30] <penguin42> directhex: They got forced to at some point, and so the source for the A10 kernel is released, although it's not clean it has a few non-GPL bits in it that people are in the process of forcably removing
[23:31] <penguin42> directhex: The rhombtech guys are trying to build the board with fully open code (and the designs are open as well)
[23:32] <directhex> those are the same people behind the lulzy kde tablet?
[23:32] <penguin42> no
[23:33] <penguin42> directhex: it was started by lkcl and Phil Hands - so it really should stay open
[23:34] <directhex> lkclol
[23:34] <directhex> for the love of... i think my lumia's broken
[23:48]  * popey tickles gord with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2IAYl1UiaU