[07:27] <webczat> Hello.
[07:28] <webczat> Can anyone confirm that going to the login window and starting orca preferences then pressing cancel doesn't allow returning to the login window?
[07:28] <webczat> It's useful to set orca prefs in the login window to switch languages, for example.
[10:56] <webczat> ?
[11:00] <AlanBell> hi webczat 
[11:03] <AlanBell> webczat: how do I get to orca preferences from the login window?
[11:04] <AlanBell> starting and stopping orca on lightdm seems to cause focus issues
[11:25] <webczat> AlanBell: ins+space
[11:26] <webczat> if you would resolve focus and timing issues it would be all great. about timing issues there are the cases (only on virtualbox) that orca does not start after login.
[11:27] <webczat> not always, it's pretty random. starting it then from the terminal works.
[11:27] <AlanBell> ok, reproduced that one
[11:27] <webczat> it's the same thing I've reported before, also true for livecd I think. probably a timing issue somehow.
[11:28] <AlanBell> it puts focus back on the orca window itself which is not normally on screen
[11:28] <AlanBell> I then shut down orca and restarted it, and it will read the top panel but not the usernames and passwords
[11:28] <webczat> AlanBell: first, orca should start with disabled main window on login. second, all orca settings should probably be moved to the gdm settings too. third, the synthesizer's language should be set somehow (it's the bug valid from 10.04)
[11:28] <AlanBell> I am uploading a bunch of videos of orca and various bits of Ubuntu
[11:30] <webczat> also I see that unity likes to crash when interacting with orca, does not always properly react and can even crash orca itself I think
[11:30] <webczat> I know it's daily so it's less of a problem.
[11:31] <webczat> ohh for example: launch orca/login... press the windows key, then go to programs and press enter... then type something in the search box, then press down arrow to hear that some programs are available. go further down, you will see those few programs that it has shown. press up, expand the program list, press down... the list is not updated or orca does not see it.
[11:32] <webczat> I could give you further instructions
[11:32] <webczat> if you would want to reproduce that one
[11:32]  * webczat starts ubuntu himself
[11:34] <webczat> erm also does the new gdm 3.4 or something have any key to invoke the screenreader?
[11:34] <webczat> anyway let's see if orca starts. it probably will not
[11:34] <webczat> this is pretty serious
[11:36] <webczat> ee how sweet... it didn't
[11:43] <webczat> Ohh!
[11:43] <webczat> ** (orca:2988): WARNING **: at-spi: Got no message at atspi-accessible.c line 674
[11:43] <webczat> I get many many many many of those
[11:43] <Pendulum> webczat: for things you've reported, do you have bug numbers?
[11:49] <webczat> Actually at this time I'm not sure about: where's the ubuntu bugzilla, and sometimes where to actually report it. Also I do not have enough info.
[11:49] <webczat> Now I'm not sure, for example, if the bug with orca not starting is ubuntu, gnome in general or just orca specific, and I'm trying to find what causes it.
[11:53] <webczat> ohh. and now I cannot enter the menu. hrhr
[11:59] <webczat> for example... I am not sure how to get the cause of orca not starting unless it would be reproduced after few tries in the terminal
[12:14] <webczat> does ubuntu lts update orca when updates arrive?
[12:14] <webczat> I mean usually
[12:22] <JanC> webczat: I think Orca is part of GNOME, so I suppose it gets updated together with the rest of GNOME
[12:33] <webczat> I meant non-major updates
[16:07] <AlanBell> webczat: we can request updates of orca if there are fixes we want in it, or the fixes can be backported to the version we have
[16:08] <AlanBell> the installer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvncFwCkmA
[16:08] <AlanBell> the panel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-lgHqBesYE
[16:09] <AlanBell> oh I need to rotate that one
[16:09] <AlanBell> lightdm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q20LbvRF0BE
[16:09] <AlanBell> rotation needed again
[16:09] <AlanBell> hud and dash and launcher http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiP0Bd8xWY4
[16:12] <AlanBell> I will do some more of the bugs webczat has been finding (lightdm focus issues and languages area of system settings) when I get my phone back off the kids who are playing angry birds on it
[21:12] <tallboy_2> I was referred to this channel by #ubuntu.  Is there any way of getting the Zoom Desktop feature to work in Ubuntu 11.04 if compiz doesn't work with my Intel graphics card?  It worked in 10.10 just fine. Thanks in advance.  
[21:13] <jbicha_> tallboy_2: metacity/Unity 2D doesn't support zoom, so unless you can get Compiz to work I think you'll be out of luck
[21:16] <tallboy_2> jbicha:  In that case, is there a magnifier option?  I need some kind of zoom as I am legally blind.
[21:19] <jbicha_> tallboy_2: try opening System Settings. Click Universal Access and change Text Size to Larger
[21:24] <AlanBell> tallboy_2: I am surprised 3d doesn't work on an intel card
[21:24] <AlanBell> tallboy_2: lspci |grep VGA
[21:25] <AlanBell> can you type that in a terminal then paste in the line you get which will be the details of your graphics card
[21:27] <tallboy_2> Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device (rev 01)
[21:31] <AlanBell> well that does appear to be a funny one :(
[21:31] <tallboy_2> Funny as in how? I added the ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa for the latest graphics driver to see if that would help, but it didn't.  
[21:32] <AlanBell> most of the intel chips just work, but I am seeing lots of people with that chipset and problems with it on google
[21:32] <AlanBell> there were a few that stopped working around Hardy, but I thought things were just getting better for most graphics cards
[21:33] <AlanBell> if this was working with compiz and now is not then that is a regression and should be reported as a bug
[21:33] <AlanBell> can you try the 12.04 live CD?
[21:35] <tallboy_2> I just did a fresh install of 11.04.  I'll have to download the 12.04 .iso first.  I guess it's worth a shot.  If not, I'll have to revert back to Maverick.
[21:35] <AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[21:36] <AlanBell> there are a few basic magnifiers that are not the compiz one but they are not very good
[21:37] <AlanBell> gnome-shell is getting a new magnifier but I am not sure how good that will be
[21:37] <AlanBell> using openGL to magnify the screen just seems to be the right approach to the problem, compiz zoom is fast and smooth when it works
[21:37] <tallboy_2> Yea, zoom was a nice feature... easy and quick to use.
[21:39] <jbicha_> AlanBell: you can try out the gnome-shell magnifier now, it's included in 3.4
[21:42] <tallboy_2> I should be able to "run" the liveCD without installing to see if this works, correct?  Or would installing be a better bet?  It doesn't matter to me either way, nothing important saved on internal hdd.
[21:45] <AlanBell> jbicha_: does that run without gnome-shell?
[21:45] <AlanBell> tallboy_2: you should be able to run from the live CD, if the drivers are there it will just work, if they are not then installing won't be any better!
[21:50] <tallboy_2> Ok, question while waiting for download to complete, is there a way to force Unity to work with my current version?  
[21:52] <jbicha_> AlanBell: I believe it's built into GNOME Shell/mutter
[21:56] <AlanBell> tallboy_2: you can't force compiz to run if it doesn't want to
[21:59] <AlanBell> jbicha_: right, so it won't work with unity2d then
[22:01] <tallboy_2> AlanBell:  I guess I can try the magnifiers you say are available outside of compiz.  Which one do you recommend to be worth a shot?
[22:10] <tallboy_2> AlanBell:  I'll burn image now and try 12.04.  I'll report back.  Thanks again for the help
[22:20] <AlanBell> tallboy_2: I went throught the magnifiers in the software centre a while back, I don't remember the names but none of them excited me
[22:20] <AlanBell> tallboy_2: do let me know how you get on
[22:20] <AlanBell> there is some experimental code for doing text cursor tracking with compiz zoom, but it needs a bit more work on it
[22:21] <AlanBell> night all o/
[22:21] <tallboy_2> night