[01:02] are we meating yet? [01:02] Hey, everyone. We're goind to start the meeting. [01:03] okie dokie [01:03] http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/362/detail/ [01:03] There's the agenda [01:03] First off, welcome everyone [01:03] Pretty much everything on the agenda relates to Penguicon. :) [01:04] party [01:04] We have a Precise Pangolin (12.04) release party scheduled at Penguicon on Friday at 7pm - 8pm [01:04] It'll be in the Thomas room, which Penguicon has graciously set up for us [01:04] one hour? [01:04] So that'll be pretty awesome [01:04] Yeah, one hour [01:05] That's the time we had last year, and I figure it's when the crazy starts happening. :) [01:05] You'll need to have a day-pass for Penguicon if you're not already attending [01:05] weee [01:06] snap-l: i just added west mi release party to the agenda [01:06] But I'd highly recommend coming to Penguicon anyway, because a) it's a lot of fun, and b) we finally got rick_h to speak at it [01:06] brousch: Awesome. We can talk about that after Penguicon. [01:06] he did a packaging jam once [01:06] s/jam/talk/ [01:06] greg-g: Yes, and we know how special these events can be [01:07] it's like the blooming of the corpse flower. [01:07] sounds wonderfully disgusting [01:07] Anywho.... :) [01:08] One of the other events scheduled for Penguicon is a Panel discussion for what's new in 12.04 [01:08] Which needs some lovely people to talk about what's new in 12.04 [01:08] (insert your name here) [01:09] I'd like to have a few people who can commit to talking about it at Penguicon [01:09] Unfortunately the schedule isn't published yet, so I can't give you a day / time that it'll be happening [01:10] so, more details forthcoming [01:10] If anyone is going to be at Penguicon and would like to talk about 12.04, please send an e-mail to the mailing list [01:10] Comments / concerns? [01:12] Looking forward to the party, [01:13] OK, is there anything else relating to Penguicon? [01:13] Just get the word out. [01:13] I know rick_h is presenting, and I'll be (I think) doing a podcast and juggling there. [01:14] Podcast? Wht kind? [01:14] My Open Metalcast [01:14] showing how the sausage gets made. [01:14] juggling 12.04 CDs? [01:14] Is there anyone there you want as a guest? [01:14] brousch: Were that they were there, I would love to [01:14] burn some [01:15] Ahuka: I'd love for you to be there, but it's mostly a music podcast. [01:15] I didn't mean me, I mean of the poeple at Penguicon. [01:16] Ahuka: If there's any metal folks, maybe we could swing an interview. [01:16] CC metal folks. [01:16] I kind of lit a fire under some of the Penguicon folks. [01:16] Told them thier publicity stinks. [01:17] Ahuka: Yeah, it's been a little weak this time around [01:17] I suggested they get Bruce Schneier to interview for Sunday Morning Linux Review. [01:17] but I think part of it is that the con-chair quit [01:17] Not the con chair's job to do publicity, really. [01:18] regardless, I see Penguicon as the skidding into the finish line, tires on fire, gas tank about to explode, type of show. [01:18] Though I can sympathize for the problem. [01:18] This does not surprise me [01:18] another nice visual [01:19] greg-g: They call me Mr. Metaphor [01:19] OK, brousch, what's happening in west MI? [01:20] release party during the regular monthly WMLUG meeting [01:20] pizza, pop [01:20] "pop" [01:20] not nearly as exciting as penguicon [01:20] * brousch eyeballs greg-g [01:21] those dirty west coast hippies have you saying soda now? [01:22] i'll hand out CDs and swag [01:24] brousch: I've always said soda, after I said "coke" when I lived in TX [01:24] commie! [01:24] soda foreva! [01:25] pop only lives in MI hippy hearts because the yuppers won one [01:25] * greg-g apologizes for only derailing the meeting [01:25] greg-g: I don't think there's much sodium in soda. [01:25] but there is pop in pop. ;) [01:25] snap-l: pop is a noise, soda is a drink ;P [01:26] * snap-l gets out the club... coda. [01:26] soda, rather. [01:26] Any...who... [01:26] brousch: When is the meet-up, and where can we lear more? [01:26] +n [01:27] hm, i thought it was on the team thing [01:28] It is, but I wanted you to point that out. [01:28] hint hint [01:28] http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1535/detail/ [01:28] bah, i can never find anything on there [01:30] OK, very cool. [01:30] Also, this isn't on the agenda, but I'd be remiss for not mentioning it [01:31] Ahuka: You're still looking for someone to speak at WALUG about 12.04? [01:31] On 5/17? [01:31] I'm unfortunately not going to be able to make it, as it's my anniversary that day, and we have pans. [01:31] and plans. [01:31] Well, yes, I am, if you have someone. Otherwise, I'll ask you again for like August. [01:32] ....to make loud noises with [01:32] (sorry, bad timing) [01:32] Ahuka: I haven't found anyone yet. [01:32] If anyone on the channel, however, would like to volunteer.... :) [01:32] Then don't worry about it. It won't kill anyone in LUGWASH to have an open discussion for a change. [01:33] snap-l: how about if ahuka provides candles and wine? [01:33] hah [01:33] brousch: Didn't realize you were the romantic type, but if you're volunteering... :) [01:33] brousch, it's not *that* kind of group. [01:33] I'm sure it can be arranged. [01:34] no, too far away for me. also i have no idea what's going on in 12.04 unity [01:34] Me either, that is why I was looking for an expert. [01:35] where's jcastro when you need 'em [01:35] He told me Craig would take his place. [01:35] On a beach in Florida. [01:36] what happened to that DBO guy? [01:36] Anyway, I installed Unity on one of mmy boxes. [01:36] DBO doesn't hang out here much [01:36] probably because when he does, we start beating him up for Unity stuff [01:37] Turns out it is not the personifcation of evil. Who knew? [01:37] Ahuka: i disbelieve [01:37] Normally I stick to the Blue-haired Stepchild. [01:38] Yeah, I think the step-children are going off to colleg [01:38] Ahuka: a man after my own heart [01:38] and aren't getting the support they once had from papa canonical [01:39] snap-l, I'm not sure that will matter too much. [01:39] Losing one developer should not be the end of the world. [01:40] Ahuka: Well, it's no longer directly linked [01:41] xubuntu is leaving [01:41] was that an april fools, or was it serious? [01:43] fools [01:43] i thought it was from a few days ago [01:43] * greg-g is typing one handed [01:43] * greg-g has Rowan [01:43] Let Rowan type the other hand. :) [01:44] , mujklj,k [01:44] geekers [01:44] bah, it is dated 4/1 [01:44] good [01:47] OK, anything else for this meeting [01:50] snap-l: thanks for running things again! [01:51] yep yep [01:51] thanks [01:53] np. [01:53] Thanks everyone for coming out! [01:54] Hope to see you all at the release parties! [02:15] <_stink_> oo [02:15] <_stink_> i vote yes [02:15] <_stink_> on everything [02:49] I have created an extra-long OMC [02:50] Trying to narrow down 8 CC artists to highlight for a new audience [02:50] (punchline) it's not 8 artists. === JonathanDog is now known as JonathanD [10:36] morning [12:06] Good morning [12:08] Merry Monday! [12:08] ugh [12:09] Come on now. You had all weekend to relax and recharge for the week [12:10] yea, I did some of that [12:11] Buck up and dive in! [13:23] omg i just found some new KDE awesome [13:23] the same export plugins in DigiKam are available in gwenview [13:24] rick_h: screen maintains $WINDOW environment variable. i found TMUX_PANE but that is different. what do you use for $WINDOW? [13:24] so i don't have to start up digikam (5-10 minute boot) to export photos [13:24] 5-10min boot? WTF? [13:24] jrwren: what would I use $WINDOW for? [13:24] what is this 1994? [13:24] rick_h: i use $WINDOW in my $PS1 so I know which screen window I am in [13:24] jrwren: another case of 4GB is not enough for me [13:26] jrwren: have to find it out of list-windows? https://github.com/matschaffer/profile/blob/master/tmux.conf [13:26] not sure, I've not used that before sorry [13:27] rick_h: thanks. no worries. you are my go to guru about this stuff. [13:27] I'm kind of confused though, are you not using any status window? [13:28] is that why you don't know which window you're in? [13:28] i usually know. [13:28] but i got used to looking at PS1 for that. [13:28] k [13:28] byobu-tmux only uses 1 status line instead of 2, so i don't have a clear picture of current window based on status line [13:28] maybe i can make byobu-tmux use 2 status lines, I'm not sure. [13:29] ah, yea no idea. Not using byobu [13:29] I like byobu really only for the network section. [13:30] i also miss ctrl-a,ctrl-a to toggle between windows. (screen) - I need ot lookup how to do that in byobu [13:30] err... in tmux i mean [13:30] # bind C-a to the previously active window [13:30] bind-key C-a last-window [13:31] thanks! that rocks. [13:51] rick_h: whoa, sorry to bother you, but one huge difference i just noticed is with processes sessions attached to same [13:51] session [13:51] when I change windows in one it changes in the other. in screen they were really separate so in xterm1 i could attach and toggle between screen windows 1 & 2 and in xterm2 toggle between windows 3 & 4 [13:53] jrwren: Yeah, tmux keeps them as the same session [13:53] that's the beauty of tmux [13:54] that isn't beauty. [13:54] surely there is a toggle. [13:54] i'll RTFM [13:56] jrwren: It is beauty, and if you don't see that, you're a luddite. ;) [13:59] snap-l: steve jobs would not have approved it, therefore it is ugly [13:59] jrwren: yea, it's a big difference and one that somtimes annoys and sometimes I love [14:00] jrwren: it does make it an awesome remote pairing kind of thing [14:00] snap-l: you are a namecalling namecaller. [14:01] sure, but there are wasy to do the remote paring thing exactly the same with screen. [14:01] good morning! [14:01] if there is no way to make tmux NOT do this, then its a defficiency and something screen can do that tmux cannot and THAT is weak. [14:01] jrwren: Takes a namecalling namecaller to know a namecalled namecallering namecaller. [14:01] party jcastro [14:01] jcastro: wb [14:02] good morning jcastro <3 u [14:05] tmux new-session -t 0 [14:05] YAYA [14:05] that starts tmux with a new client session to an existing server [14:05] to get separate window behavior like screen. [14:34] heh, finally spent a few minute to go aroud and git pull my various vim bundles [14:34] nerdtree got some pretty [14:35] oh? [14:35] I found Explore and decided I don't need nerd tree :) [14:35] yea, little arrows and such [14:35] jrwren: linky? [14:36] which is "explore" there's a few with explore in the name [14:36] well, Explore and Ggrep from fugitive [14:36] rick_h: its built into vim. [14:36] :Sex and :Vex and :Explore [14:37] huh? fugative is the git tool [14:37] ah, gotcha [14:39] yeah, Ggrep puts matches into the error list and then I just nav the error list. [14:39] I don't care what file its in, I just go to the match :) [14:39] yea, I use :vimgrep all the time [14:39] its esp great for learning huge new codebases. [14:39] cuz I have no idea what file something is in [14:39] but I just Ggrep for it. [14:39] but I do like walking around with nerdtree since it's a full overview [14:40] *nod* I'd probably use it a ton coming from VS's solution explorer [14:40] but yea, vimgrep + ctrlp have gotten rid of 80% of my nerdtree usuage [14:41] yay for more px for editing! [14:42] yup. YAY [15:02] jrwren: so, I've only read parts of the scrollback, why tmux over screen? [15:02] it's awesome! and much friendlier to scripting/etc [15:03] heh [15:05] greg-g: i'm changing for 2 reasons: 1> philosphy regarding accepting patches. 2> I prefer BSD license to GPL license [15:05] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/593/ [15:05] It also feels a lot lighter than screen [15:05] plus the scripting is utterly amazing. [15:05] greg-g: jcastro could probably tell us details, but I gather than byobu tried to send screen patches and they said "no ty" and so rather than fork screen, byobu went ot tmux and tmux said "tyvm" [15:06] yea, that's part of it [15:06] but tmux has much nicer usability for things [15:06] I know I use :kill-window -t xx a lot more now [15:06] screen is very sluggish upstream [15:06] the ability to :somecommand is just awesome for tweaking/doing things outside of the normal config you setup ahead of time [15:06] it's old, and was stagnating [15:06] and then tmux came around [15:06] dustin tells me the code is much smaller, cleaner, easier to maintain [15:07] that and the guy accepted his patches right away [15:07] and if you use it, it's so much better you won't even care about screen anymore [15:07] it's totally badass [15:07] It's kinda like the difference between git and svn [15:07] svn is perfectly usable, but stagnant [15:07] try the splits in tmux [15:07] git gives you superpowers. [15:07] it's basically the awesomest thing ever [15:07] rick_h: screen has : commands, but probably not as extensive as what tmux can do [15:07] jcastro: I have. They're rockstar. [15:08] meh, the splits I don't get. You want to tile, then using a tiling WM :) [15:08] hah [15:08] It breaks all kinds of usage [15:08] rick_h: They're good if you're on a ssh window [15:08] and want to run pep8 without switching [15:08] and I'm ALWAYS on a ssh window :) [15:08] meh, well you're already in vim then so you just run ,M anyway ;) [15:09] because I'm not super awesome like rick_h [15:09] I guess, at that point though I find my WM does a better job than tmux does [15:09] and ,M maps to what, exactly? [15:10] (for those of us not using .vimrc.rick_h) [15:10] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/594/ [15:10] there done, and you get to auto jump to the errors to fix from the quickfix window the way vim intended [15:10] running pep8 outside of vim is next to pointless [15:11] i don't run pip8, i just vim-pyflakes and pray [15:11] heh, yea but that doesn't catch spacing violations and such [15:11] ,m == pyflakes ,M == pep8 [15:12] and ,m == jslint in a js file, phpcodesniffer in a php file, csslint in a css file, etc [15:12] voilations in the quickfix window for auto jumping around to each location directly [15:13] how about syntastic? [15:13] so I've just not gotten that going well [15:13] me either.:) [15:13] but I guess run it against a manual pep8/etc and let me know if it keeps things clean [15:14] run I run things on the CI server it's running pep8/pylint/jslint from the cmd line [15:14] so same tool for me in the dev env [15:14] rick_h: That is awesome. [15:14] I have syntastic running fine [15:15] snap-l: which is awesome? [15:15] the pep8 in vim [15:15] yea, best way to go [15:16] I spent a bunch of time trying to get everything in the qiuckfix window, it's a damn powerful thing [15:16] Regardless, splits are pretty nice if you're using it via ssh [15:16] that way you don't need two sessions [15:16] ok, well I'm a split fan in most places so I understand [15:17] just find my issues copying/pasting/etc out of split windows to be a pain so I use WM splits vs tmux splits [15:17] but yea, splits still ftw [15:17] Yeah, though I think tmux fixes c/p between splits [15:17] honestly haven't run into that, though [15:17] I use wm c/p more than I ought [15:18] btw: I've been getting nailed by some EC2 bots on OMC [15:19] they go through and crawl everything, including the mp3/ogg files at an amazing rate [15:19] you've set the robots.txt? [15:19] I've put in some rate limiting, so if you decide to download more than X number of mp3 / ogg files at once, it'll bomb [15:19] Yeah, I hadn't set it to not index wp-* stuff. [15:19] I have that set now [15:20] but since it wasn't adhering to the seconds between crawls, I don't think it would have mattered. [15:21] right, but can't you say not to index the .ogg files? [15:21] and it should never hit it, if it does you can blacklist it? [15:21] mod-bw ? [15:21] Two separate IP addresses [15:21] so blacklisting = pointless [15:22] jrwren: nginx [15:22] do you set a max-age? Maybe those crawlers are expecting that for refresh interval? [15:22] I don't have a max-age on the mp3 / ogg files [15:22] hipster. [15:23] jrwren: I can't hear you over my skinny jeans. [15:23] snap-l: lol [15:23] they make everything muffly. [15:23] snap-l: how is that iphone and macbook ? [15:23] jrwren: so last century [15:26] It seems counterintuitive to set a max-age for something that won't change (finished episodes), but I've seen clients that think no-age means always refresh if nothing is given. [15:31] krondor: I've thought about setting that, however there have been times when I've needed to update an episode [15:32] and frankly, you're not likely to keep an episode in cache [15:32] so maybe just setting it to something short if you need to update could influence these crawls, maybe.. [15:33] Possible. [15:33] yea, I mean end of the day you're expecting htem to listen to the rules, but if they don't you just need to block the ips [15:34] rick_h: yeah there's only so much workaround for badly behaving things you should do before you say, I don't want to allow this bad thing and they should adhere to the rules. [15:35] yea, I mean it's not like you're losing $$ or customers by blocking a misbehaving bot from your podcast episodes [15:35] time wasted > * [15:36] My biggest fear is wasted bandwidth [15:36] which is why I put in the connection limiting on the episodes [15:36] front it with apache and use modbw [15:36] frankly, if you're downloading more than X eopisodes at a time, your client is broken [15:36] or find a modbw for nginx [15:37] jrwren: I'm not concerned (right now) with limiting outbound bandwidth [15:38] Every download gets counted against my monthly quota. [15:38] yea, kind of defeats the s3 hosting [15:38] Well, linode, but same thing [15:39] a bit different. [15:39] s3 is $ per xfer, not quota [15:39] oh, I thought they were hosted in s3 [15:39] nvm then [15:39] No, not currently. [15:39] But still, they eat a little bit of my monthly pie [15:40] I'm already at 4% usage, and it's 2 days into the month [15:40] 2.0/31 [15:40] 0.0645161 [15:40] so you're ahead of the game :) [15:42] pfft [15:43] and it's 2.0 / 30 for this moth [15:43] So .66 [15:43] ok, so as long as you're under 6.6% you're doing great [15:45] assuming constant download rate over the month, which is crazy talk ;) [15:46] right. downloads will increase after release of each podcast [15:46] didn't he just release? [15:47] ok, well the 27th [15:47] Yes [15:47] and another is going to be released tomorrow [15:47] but yea, anyway, just saying being at 4% on the second day isn't death [15:47] but still, misbehaving clients == banned in my book [15:48] rick_h: unless you're partnering with another podcasting network [15:48] does http://bmark.us now load for any chrome users? [15:48] who will drive God-knows-what traffic [15:48] and if yes, are you on the latest dev version? [15:48] rick_h: It's loading here [15:48] snap-l: can you check which chrome version you're on? [15:49] 18.0.1025.142 [15:49] I'm chasing stable, afaik [15:49] hmm, not loading on firefox nightly either...wtf [15:50] rick_h: bmark loads for me [15:50] 18.0.1025.142 [15:51] ok, well I'll have to figure it out tonight I guess. Glad it's not broken for everyone atm [15:54] did you clear your cache? :P [15:54] Have you tried turning it off and on again? [15:54] heh yea, definitely cleared my cache [15:55] in chrome the request fails, looks like the redirect breaking it [15:55] in firefox though it seems fine, just never loads [15:55] and it was working, but did updates today so assuming since it works for you guys I'm hitting bleeding edge browser issues perhaps [15:55] since I'm on nightlies in FF and dev version in chrome, I'm on 19 [16:52] really cool https://github.com/blog/1081-instantly-beautiful-project-pages [16:52] making the github pages stuff a bit easier to get started iwth [17:21] ok crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b4ZZQkcNEo [17:29] doesn't seem crazy [17:30] I find it impressive it's able to launch itself like that [17:39] i like its durability [17:41] I like its rugged good looks [18:17] rick_h: That's not nearly as creepy as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ULlgpT1UQ [18:18] ok, that's a bit strange [18:18] Imagine that tearing after you. [18:19] well I think I'd just turn :) [18:19] rick_h: Well, yeah, for now. [18:19] But the days of autonomous robots distributing bundles of pain with your name on it are coming. [18:23] RAT THING! [18:24] greg-g: ftw! [18:25] booo, did a big upgrade on the precise machine and no WM coming up [18:25] just lovely wallpaper [18:26] heh [18:27] yea, I should give it more love than I do, but I guess a machine you only visit every once in a while is a bad candidate for running a beta on [18:28] heh, you mean you don't dog food every day on your main work machine? [18:28] heh [18:29] umm nope. I've been holding out because of pycon and then since I don't believe in upgrades not had a chance for a reinstall [18:29] but that's why I keep the second machine around running, so I can say I'm dog fooding :) [18:30] upgrades happen whether you believe in them or not [18:32] yea, but I don't do them, I do reinstalls [18:55] snap-l: I like http://spikethetomb.bandcamp.com/ from OMC Ep 43 [19:02] Yeah, they're pretty good [19:03] They ran out of free downloads, though, so I can't download anything else but Pyrophile [19:03] That's not the first band that I've had that problem [19:03] ran out of free downloads? [19:04] * greg-g looks [19:04] Yeah, they only get a certain number of them [19:04] huh [19:04] odd [19:04] at least that's how I've had it explained to me [19:04] yeah, interesting pricing scheme [19:04] (I've started replacing "business model" with "pricing scheme" :) ) [19:05] (that way I get to remember the grand ole days of CS 1301, intro to comp sci via Scheme) [19:05] greg-g: sorry to hear that. [19:05]