| joanie | TheMuso: you still around? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| TheMuso | joanie: Yup. | 00:00 |
| joanie | help me brainstorm because I need to hack(ish) around unity-greeter for flat review | 00:00 |
| TheMuso | Ok I'll do what I can... | 00:01 |
| joanie | the problem seems to be related to the lack of window manager and how Orca draws flat review | 00:01 |
| joanie | When Orca draws the line it's a GtkWindow | 00:01 |
| TheMuso | Yup, with you so far. | 00:01 |
| joanie | and Orca just keeps it on top | 00:01 |
| TheMuso | Ah. | 00:01 |
| TheMuso | I was wondering how that was done. | 00:01 |
| joanie | well, for some reason unity-greeter doesn't like this | 00:01 |
| TheMuso | Right. | 00:02 |
| joanie | perhaps because it doesn't have a window manager | 00:02 |
| TheMuso | It doesn't. | 00:02 |
| joanie | so combine that with the bug I filed earlier | 00:02 |
| joanie | it gives focus back to whatever | 00:02 |
| TheMuso | It only does the bare minimum to make sure shutdown/restart dialogs are on top and get focus. | 00:02 |
| joanie | and events stop | 00:02 |
| TheMuso | Yup. | 00:02 |
| joanie | so the "solution" (not exactly, but....) is "don't draw the outline" | 00:02 |
| joanie | so I need to detect this condition | 00:03 |
| joanie | in looking at the registry | 00:03 |
| joanie | when unity-greeter is running there are two accessible applications: | 00:03 |
| joanie | unity-greeter and Orca | 00:03 |
| TheMuso | Right. One thing I was trying to do recently was probe the unity-greeter X display to see what properties were set, to see if such a property was set that we could check for. | 00:03 |
| joanie | a non-hack would be awesme | 00:03 |
| joanie | awesome too :) | 00:03 |
| TheMuso | However I was not able to do so from a terminal with xprop etc. | 00:03 |
| joanie | in the meantime, with 3.4.1 approaching | 00:03 |
| joanie | when I look at any "normal" environment -- even minimal, there are bunches more than 2 apps counting Orca | 00:04 |
| TheMuso | Right. | 00:04 |
| joanie | what other apps might show up in unity-greeter | 00:04 |
| joanie | I'm thinking if there are not at least three (or insert number here) apps, do flat review but don't draw the rectangle | 00:05 |
| TheMuso | Only onboard, but thats not likely to be running at the same time as orca. | 00:05 |
| joanie | because I see no way to ask "what's your window manager?" | 00:05 |
| joanie | I will google more | 00:05 |
| joanie | and to be honest, most Orca users cannot see the underline anyway | 00:06 |
| TheMuso | Ok. | 00:06 |
| TheMuso | Yup | 00:06 |
| joanie | so I'm not all that worried if my hack is too extreme | 00:06 |
| TheMuso | And flat review is not likely to be used in the greeter. | 00:06 |
| joanie | and fails to draw a line that no one is going to see | 00:06 |
| joanie | Attila tried it | 00:07 |
| TheMuso | You're usually only there to log in/ | 00:07 |
| TheMuso | He would. : | 00:07 |
| joanie | and promptly discovered his system wouldn't respond | 00:07 |
| TheMuso | :) | 00:07 |
| joanie | Attila is my FAVORITE user. | 00:07 |
| joanie | seriously | 00:07 |
| TheMuso | I can understand that yeah. | 00:07 |
| joanie | he's like having an employee | 00:07 |
| joanie | he tests and tries all sorts of stuff | 00:07 |
| joanie | and gives crazy amounts of debug output | 00:07 |
| joanie | and hacks | 00:07 |
| joanie | and | 00:07 |
| joanie | ok but back to my brainstorm | 00:08 |
| joanie | you ok with this as a solution? | 00:08 |
| TheMuso | Ypu I know what you mean, he is raising a lot of issues on the Ubuntu a11y list. At least he files bugs as well. | 00:08 |
| TheMuso | Works for me. | 00:08 |
| TheMuso | Maybe longer term we could add an X property or some such to unity-greeter that you could check for. | 00:08 |
| * joanie nods | 00:08 | |
| joanie | first I'm going to see if I can figure out how Gtk+ sends those hints | 00:09 |
| TheMuso | Ok. | 00:09 |
| joanie | oh hi gdk method | 00:18 |
| joanie | I might not have to hack | 00:18 |
| * joanie tries | 00:18 | |
| joanie | I love introspection bugs :-/ | 01:41 |
| joanie | anyhoo, TheMuso at least in Fedora, and not counting the introspection bug I'm about to search for and file.... | 01:41 |
| joanie | I can use Gdk to get the window manager's name | 01:42 |
| joanie | so that should be fine for the flat review unity-greeter bug | 01:42 |
| joanie | (in theory) | 01:42 |
| TheMuso | Ok theories are good. | 01:42 |
| joanie | yeah ;) | 01:42 |
| joanie | I guess I should make sure it doesn't blow up in ubuntu | 01:43 |
| joanie | got 'Metacity'. /me tries in greeter | 01:45 |
| tallboy_2 | AlanBell: Just wanted to let you know for future reference, 12.04 did not work.. still no 3D support for that Intel chip. | 02:43 |
| joanie | TheMuso: fixed. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673397 | 03:16 |
| ubot2 | Gnome bug 673397 in general "Using flat review while in Unity Greeter makes Orca stop presenting screen contents." [Normal,Resolved: fixed] | 03:16 |
| joanie | TheMuso: While testing I noticed that there are some items in the unity-greeter that are apparently not being seen by Orca's flat review. At some point down the road I can look into that. BUT, I would bet cold, hard cash that it ain't an Orca bug. And unlike the thing I just fixed, I cannot hack objects which are not correctly reporting their location or existence into objects which are. ;) | 03:18 |
| TheMuso | joanie: Yeah there are GTK widgets at the core of unity-greeter, but some work has been done to make them look somewhat different, so I dare say there is something that changes the behavior of what originally is a standard GTK widget. | 03:45 |
| yaili_ | hi all | 12:19 |
| yaili_ | wondering if anyone is available to have a look at something we're working on? | 12:19 |
| AlanBell | hi yaili_ | 14:29 |
| AlanBell | whats up? | 14:29 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: hi! | 14:30 |
| AlanBell | are you going to UDS? | 14:31 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: no | 14:31 |
| AlanBell | :( | 14:31 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: maybe next time :) | 14:34 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: do you have a couple of minutes to have a look at a test page? | 14:34 |
| AlanBell | sure | 14:34 |
| yaili_ | so we're looking into the hover on links on ubuntu.com, and just putting together as many variations we can think of | 14:35 |
| yaili_ | here it is so far http://dl.dropbox.com/u/46219249/links/index.html | 14:35 |
| yaili_ | your thoughts would be very welcome | 14:35 |
| AlanBell | not sure I like the various underlines vanishing on hover | 14:37 |
| AlanBell | dotted underline is often used to indicate there is an on-hover tooltip so I wouldn't use that for an actual link | 14:38 |
| AlanBell | http://www.alistapart.com/articles/hattrick/ | 14:39 |
| AlanBell | yaili_: and baconipsum is great :) | 14:44 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: indeed | 14:44 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: I like how bold doesn't rely on colour to indicate there's a difference, but not sure it's easy to understand | 14:45 |
| AlanBell | yeah, they don't look like links to me, plus what if you want to actually use *bold* for something in a run of text with bold links | 14:47 |
| AlanBell | bold Orange is OK | 14:47 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: true | 14:49 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: what if it was underlined and changed colour on hover? | 14:49 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: do you think the links being simply orange is enough? | 14:49 |
| AlanBell | I think people would work it out either way | 14:54 |
| AlanBell | personally I am fine with most of the options, arguably the orange with tinted background is low contrast, but only when you are actually hovering over it | 14:54 |
| AlanBell | I think orange links is fine, even on a monochrome display you can see the difference between Orange and black pretty easily | 14:55 |
| yaili_ | cool | 14:56 |
| yaili_ | we've had complaints about not having a hover style | 14:56 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I see it is pretty flat on the live site with no hover style | 14:57 |
| yaili_ | AlanBell: yeah, so we kind of need to fix that | 15:13 |
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