[01:05] Any thoughts on the Samsung Galaxy S II? [01:05] Yes, I am thinking about going with Ting for a wireless provider [01:06] snap-l: good phone [01:07] Worth $415? [01:25] ouch, a little bit high, but I guess you're buying raw unsub'd hardware and it's probably going rate [01:27] Yeah, it's month-to-month [01:27] not unlocked, afaict, though [01:27] but not having a contract is appealing [01:27] yea [01:27] I guess just split out the cost over the estimated time and make sure you count it [01:28] Yeah, [01:54] snap-l: ting looks really interesting [01:55] snap-l: I have VirginMobile with a kind of crappy old android. but the price is about the same. I think I would save ~$3/mo on Ting vs VM with my usage (but probably have to buy a new phone) [01:56] Yeah, I decided to roll with it [01:57] worst case, it'll suck, but it's an improvement over what I have now [01:57] which is bullshit [01:57] * greg-g nods [01:57] good deal then [01:57] * > bullshit [02:01] Anyone want a broken TI-89? [02:01] Guaranteed to be good for parts. [02:01] send me your address (craig@decafbad.net) and I'll ship it to you. [02:01] tired of moving it around on my desk [02:04] I MISS MY OLD TI-89! [02:07] greg-g: It's yours if you want a project [02:07] guaranteed not to work [02:08] I don't know what is wrong with it, but if you want to take a chance on it, I'm willing to foot the bill [02:08] no thanks, I have a (I think) working one somewhere :) [02:08] greg-g: Have two [02:09] I already know the address, what's the zip? :) [02:17] hah [10:38] Good morning [10:38] I am now up to 17% of my bandwidth used for the month. :) [10:39] morning [10:43] ouch on the 17% [10:55] rick_h: Yeah, I think I'm going to need to find an alternative location for these files [10:55] or pop for more bandwidth [10:56] but it's a nice problem to have. [10:56] 378 downloads of the latest episode [10:57] (that's not including iphone downloads, which do some strange chunk downloading [11:14] Ah, it does partial downloading [11:15] yea, I noticed that when I checked my s3 logs, lots of partials so it hits a ton of times [11:16] well, I'll say the s3 thing works great for lococast, costs < $7/mo I think and that includes my own storage I put up there [11:16] Yeah, that's something I'm considering [11:16] also archive.org, since it's CC metal. [11:17] ah, cool [11:31] snap-l: wrt your OMC downloads, i have noticed that your files are about 3x larger/minute compared to other podcasts. [11:32] That's because I encode VBR [11:32] and quality 0 [11:32] and yes, that's probably overkill [11:33] so you could save some bandwidth there [11:33] I'm going to play with the settings a bit to see if I can get those sizes down [11:33] and not lose quality. [11:33] actually i'd be happy to put some files on my dreamhost if you'd like [11:34] "unlimited" storage and bandwidth [12:02] brousch: Thank you. I think I'll be fine [12:03] I can add more bandwidth if necessary [12:03] Just a nice problem to have. :) [12:04] is it bots or people? [12:05] direct downloads [12:05] from people [12:05] the bot problem was something else entirely [12:05] that is nice [12:06] http://www.metalinjection.net/podcasts [12:07] oh yeah, baby === lotia_ is now known as lotia === lotia is now known as lotia-away [12:36] Vimmers, check out TerminalIDE in this article http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/australia/programming-for-android-on-android/854 [12:39] heh, cool [12:39] but can it run my .vimrc?! [12:40] i don't know [12:41] rick_h: I think there are cray machines that might have trouble with your .vimrc [12:44] snap-l: you would ban me from OMC if i told you the music i was currently listening to and enjoying [12:44] brousch: I probably would ask for a copy. [12:45] * snap-l is a music omnivore [12:45] http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Frog-Presents-Hits/dp/B000ALZHIO [12:45] http://www.amazon.com/More-Crazy-Hits-Frog/dp/B000GBEW8E [12:45] You're right. What's the IP range for GR? [12:45] ;) [12:46] a few of those are good remixes [12:47] check out rock steady on the second one [12:47] axel F and pump up the jam on the first [12:52] I find this idea of "is a programming language reliable" a bit facinating http://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/25811/is-the-r-language-reliable-for-the-field-of-economics [12:54] Gee, the community can dictate whether a language is crap or not [12:54] I think we saw that with PHP. ;) [12:54] can't? [12:55] /can/can't ... we saw that with php? [12:55] I mean that PH may or may not be a fine language, but the community it created gives it the reputation of being VB programmers on steroids. [12:57] (responding to the selected answer) [13:21] reliable is a good question. [13:21] that idiot stats prof is no different than the idiot compsci prof that thinks solaris is better than linux. [13:22] I don't know, I keep thinking that a programming language is the very definition of reliable [13:22] you give it precise steps, and test that same input == same output [13:22] how can a lanuage possibly not be reliable. [13:23] now your implementation I can get, but the way that is phrased as "Is programming language X reliable?" is batty [13:25] but how easy is it to give it those precise steps. [13:25] e.g. the sorting bug in java that existed for 10+ yrs because of 32bit math limits [13:26] ah. [13:26] well, i agree with you. [13:26] his phrasing was NOT that of a computer scientist. [13:26] a good computer scientist would never phrase things that way [13:26] true I guess [13:26] anyway, funny start of the day [13:27] rick_h: only seeing part of this convo, there's bugs in the languages where your output can't result from your input, but that's pedantic. === lotia-away is now known as lotia [13:28] yea, but if you think about something that's 'reliable' just seems a programming language is about as reliable as something can be. [13:29] 778530 [13:30] until you find ambiguities in the language spec [13:30] lookup C or C++ undefined behavior :) [13:30] but even that undefined behavior is VERY reliable [13:34] Well, calling something a programming language doesn't suddenly imbue it with reliability [13:34] We just happen to use languages that have bugs that get fixed. ;) [13:35] rick_h: what is 778530? [13:36] just not linux distros. I'm looking at you launchpad bug #1 === nullspac1 is now known as nullspace [13:39] brousch: That's his key getting hit [13:39] youbikey, iirc [13:39] (sp) [13:39] brousch: it's this damn yibikey [13:40] wtf is a yibikey? [13:40] I can't even get it to work right with work's 2-facator auth [13:40] it's supposed to make my 2-factor auth easy peasy [13:40] The furry version of a yubikey. [13:40] little thing that sits in my usb port and whenever 2-factor asks for a number I press it with my finger and it dumps a number out [13:40] java steals from python http://bugs.sun.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=6804124 [13:40] unfortunately I keep bumping it [13:41] who does the 2 factor? use duosec! :) [13:41] we're starting to use 2-factor [13:41] from RSA? [13:41] thankfully the phone part works fine [13:41] so if i collect enough of them along with timestamps i can crack your encryption? [13:41] brousch: well you'd still need my password/username [13:42] jrwren: python ftw! [13:42] bah, and damn hangouts for not using my bluetooth headset [13:42] tech is letting me down today [13:43] http://www.extremetech.com/computing/124855-maas-effect-canonical-to-lighten-the-load-for-provisioning-bare-metal-clusters [13:43] the rsa app is a pain on android, I wish I could just use google authenticator everywhere, it works really well, IMO. [13:44] yea, I get to use Google authenticator [13:44] bookie is blank? [13:44] but wish this yubikey [13:44] jrwren: on chrome 19? [13:44] aurora [13:45] ok cool, you can dupe it too then. Yes [13:45] and chrome 19 :) [13:45] those are my 2 browsers [13:45] the ajax call goes out and comes back, but fails to load for some reason. Only gotten it on chrome 19 and FF nightly [13:45] same here [13:45] works for me! [13:45] but on my other desktop I have chrome 18 and FF not nightly [13:45] and that works [13:45] so ti's definitely something changed in the new browsers, but don't know what it is [13:46] it's on my todo list for tonight at CHC [13:46] whoa, nasty bug. I turn on firebug, hit reload and it works. [13:46] because it works in dev mode, so think it's something with the production/nginx setup, probably the redirect [13:46] jrwren: hmm, doesn't here with firebug open [13:48] it just started working for m.e [13:48] what?! I've not gotten it to work at all [13:48] in FF? [13:48] or both FF and chrome? [13:49] just FF [13:50] hmm, let me update today I guess [13:50] i think i'm 13a [13:50] whatever aurora was yesterday :) [13:51] oh hmm, 14.0a1 here [13:52] lemme double check [13:52] 13.0a2 [13:52] hehe, update waiting [13:54] well anyway, yes there's some browser bug in the dev versions of both FF and chrome that's broken the result loading in bookie and I don't have a fix yet :/ [13:54] http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1103 woot, what some LP folks have been working on is now public [13:56] jrwren: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?can=2&q=121707&colspec=ID%20Pri%20Mstone%20ReleaseBlock%20Area%20Feature%20Status%20Owner%20Summary&id=121707 looks likely [13:58] looks like it was fixed yesterday so hopefully next version of dev chrome will have the fix maybe [13:58] https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82964 [14:11] metal as a service. I don't get it. [14:12] wait. [14:12] i get it. [14:13] its like ec2 provisioning, but not on a VM, on bare metal. [14:13] holy crap that is awesome. [14:13] right [14:13] because something has to get the racks ready to go [14:13] not everything can run in VM and even if you do run VMs you need to get the bare metal ready to run VMs [14:13] i hate VMs, so :) [14:14] automatic bare metal builds have been happening for a long time [14:14] yes, but not very well [14:14] i've been helping customers w/ them for 6+ years [14:14] Dell and HP make great tools [14:15] not open source :p [14:15] right, but this is on the ubuntu server disk [14:15] so if i buy a dell server i have access to their tools which doesn't care about the OS [14:15] orly? [14:15] i've been out of this line of work for 8yrs. how does this work? [14:16] i pxe boot my dell server, then what? [14:16] so i can provision the server, configure the DRAC, configure the RAID, build the OS via a scripted OS (windows) kickstart (RHEL) or others [14:16] oh DRAC, doesn't that server hardware start at like $5000? [14:16] DRAC isn't always needed [14:16] mark's post seemed to be talking about $1k 1U type systems. [14:17] yea, it's about cheap mass hardware, especially as ARM servers come around [14:17] haven't gotten to mark's post yet, but this is totally doable [14:17] i bare metal build PCs all day long [14:17] and bare metal servers [14:17] yes, its doable [14:17] but how easy is it. [14:17] piece of cake [14:17] can i deploy an AMI to one? [14:17] jjesse: right, but you provision them in racks from a webui control ui in another room? [14:17] i can [14:17] and tie it to juju so you can start installs/setups of tasks and such [14:18] that's the idea at least [14:18] ok so you are tied to Ubuntu only on the process [14:18] not tried it out myself as I don't have a rack of hardware to use it against [14:18] why not build it platform and OS indepdent [14:18] jjesse: yes, the idea is you're using ubuntu servers to bootstrap your racks [14:18] i'm less interested in ubuntu and more interested in AMI on bare metal :) [14:19] good news at Yahoo: Finding a parking spot should be a lot easier. [14:19] lol [14:21] rick_h, but will the build be Ubuntu only or can I build a Windows Server or RHEL server off the process? [14:21] jjesse: I think it only speaks ubuntu right now. Like I said, not used it myself. Another LP team has been dev'ing it. [14:22] so maybe it is just a super fancy kickstart [14:22] The thing though is that you're doing things like provisioning things like hadoop clusters, it's on ubuntu server [14:22] so that's my biggest issue w/ all these tools they are Ubuntu only specific as far as i can tell and need to become more OS indepdent [14:22] to get greator footprint [14:22] they are all open source. [14:22] other distros just need to adopt [14:23] jcastro_ can probably tell you more since he's Mr Cloud [14:23] looks like it was announced a while ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2012-January/006041.html [14:24] Mr. Cloud. Mr. Cloud. That name again is Mr. Cloud. [14:24] Hi2U! [14:24] jrwren: well it's been quietly in dev. It's been cranking to get done/ready for 12.04 since it'll be on CD [14:25] jcastro_: jjesse wants MAAS to bootstrap RHEL for him...tell him to sshhhhhh :P [14:25] jrwren, right so when you type in "juju deploy mysql" instead of ec2 instances a server gets turned on in your datacenter and does all that kind of stuff [14:25] i want it to boostrap windows [14:25] double sssshhhhh [14:25] nad sql server [14:25] and iis [14:25] http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/ [14:25] there you go dude [14:25] jrwren, that would be great if it did that [14:25] and oracle database [14:25] i'm serious [14:26] i'm serious too. [14:26] if you want to suceed those are the features needed [14:26] right, but you don't startup/shutdown those things on a weekly basis? The idea is to take up/down frequently and manage that [14:26] it's not something you run once [14:28] I am misunderstanding what you guys want [14:28] man, nothing as depressing as reading the yahoo job cut annoucement, just "we're firing a ton of people and expect to save some cash, the end" [14:28] this isn't traditional provisioning, this is cloud-type stuff [14:28] i think we just misunderstood what maas was. [14:28] lol @ cloud-type stuff [14:28] jcastro_: they want kickstart stuff [14:29] oh, well you have that already don't you? [14:29] rick_h: You can read it as "throwing off weight so we don't burn up quite as bad on re-entry" [14:29] snap-l: lol [14:30] zookeeper, orchestera, i need a glossary [14:30] jrwren: I'm with you on that part [14:30] you don't care about zookeeper directly [14:30] I eagerly await lion tamer, railway-station, and dominatrix [14:30] it's just the thing juju uses to keep things synced [14:30] and orchestra is basically now MaaS [14:31] This is almost as bad as naming your servers after silent film comedy troupes [14:31] integrates with cobbler too. [14:31] i just want a product that can build bare metal no matter what OS [14:31] or does it replace cobbler? [14:31] What happens when hardy gets decommissioned. [14:31] and i can get that from the server vendors [14:31] or laurel. [14:32] jjesse: this is not really JUST bare metal build though, this does EVERYTHING post bare metal too. so that in the end your services are all up. [14:32] a lot of this stuff you can do already, especially the MS stuff + powershell [14:33] i can do a bare metal build of an exchange server + install exchange if i want to [14:33] i've not seen it in MS lang. [14:33] for example [14:33] jjesse: You could do some of this stuff with kickstart + chef too [14:33] agreee [14:33] well dam, you are bad ass [14:33] jrwren, it would take me a bit but MS has spent a ton of time on configuring things w/ PowerShell [14:33] or puppet, or any remote SSH tool, as long as you have the keys on the remote system. [14:33] you can get $$$ doing exchange deploys [14:34] jrwren: Why do you think they ship jjesse all over the place. [14:34] jjesse = serious badass. [14:34] i don't really know the guy. [14:34] He contributes to the Ubuntu Book. [14:34] while they are not OS there are a ton of tools that are built to do these bare metal deployments [14:35] but the point is not "anyone can do that" the point is that maas is already done it for you [14:35] and a lot of work has been done on the Windows side by MS [14:35] http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0132435942 [14:35] here's my frustration is that it seems there si too much "not invented by us" going on instead of working w/ established tools/vendors [14:36] kinda sounds like it takes cobbler to the next level [14:36] yeah basically [14:36] jjesse: Because it's easier to sell a package than a toolkit [14:38] snap-l, i understand but imagine how much wider Ubuntu would be used if it integrate w/ the existing system management vendors instead of focusing on their own product (landscape) [14:38] maybe. [14:38] jjesse: No argument here, but we've seen how rapidly things change [14:38] but a lot of us use nothing righ tnow [14:39] integrating something, and having it change then causes as much headache [14:39] and don't even know about existing things. [14:39] Most of my work at SF.net was in writing scripts to make things happen for our home-built deployment system. [14:40] We used something like puppet in the past, but it wasn't what we were looking fo [14:40] r [14:40] I can only imagine how much more painful that might have been with a vendor-provided solution [14:41] why the virsh stuff? I thought this was bare metal. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maas-maintainers/maas/trunk/view/head:/docs/juju-quick-start.rst [14:41] did they reuse the virsh API for managing bare servers? [14:45] snap-l: ok, here you go http://alestic.com/2012/04/aws-s3-torrent [14:45] snap-l: OMC episodes torrentable from s3 seeds, that's sweet [14:46] whoa? [14:47] holy crap. [14:48] s3 just supports torrent seeding like that. [14:48] that is awesome. [14:54] rick_h: Oh, nice. :) [14:56] snap-l: yea, not perfect but kind of a neat idae [14:56] idea that is [14:59] argh meetings when I want in on this cloud convo :) back in a bit [15:55] Apparently I got in to Ting at the right time. Samsung Galaxy S II is now $500 list [15:56] last night it was $465. [16:05] snap-l: cool?} [16:06] yeah, cool [16:06] I ordered it last night [16:06] ah ok, didn't realize you had ordered [16:07] snap-l: you're the reason the demand went up, thus the price [16:07] jerk [16:07] greg-g: Heh [16:07] That and I used the TWIG code [16:09] Of course now I have to wait a while for the phone to show up [16:16] jjesse: juju deploy mysql && juju deploy moodle && juju add-relation mysql moodle && juju expose moodle, that's the hard part about just kickstart + vendor build tools.. how do you provision services on things that easy. [16:17] that's also the part that is hard to write distro/os agnostic (the service build scripts) [16:19] * krondor late to the discussion and oversimplifying (config.yaml directives missing) [16:20] who wants to build their own linux distro... as a game? http://lunduke.com/?page_id=2646 [16:21] Saw that [16:21] I thought that's what I was doing when I did LFS and Gentoo [16:21] It looks... um... not that great. :) [16:23] krondor, i understand the beauty of juju however building a bare metal is not brand new [16:23] there are other tools that could be used or the engineer time could be spent improving those [16:23] but yet there is the we need to invent it ourself [16:24] jjesse: no but when I see maas I don't think it's just the OS build, I think it's the adding it to the pool for service deploy piece [16:25] i understand the add service point of view but from my understanding its starting from bare metal and building theservices [16:25] you could tie existing bare metal build tools + juju on top of it [16:27] yeah I can see that, it is very ubuntu-ey and probably not approachable by other distros [16:27] just like Landscape or other products [16:27] from a systems management point of view [16:27] even the service piece might be surmountable if you can abstract things far enough (package_install apache2 versus yum/apt/zypper/msiexec) [16:28] I'm just excited to see the charms deployable without needing all of openstack or costs for ec2 [16:29] i agree thats way cool [16:29] however i'm a bit disappointed that yet again it seems a very ubuntu specific item and not necessarily something other OSes could/would use [16:46] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9c6W4CCU9M4http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9c6W4CCU9M4 [16:46] jjesse: I'm sure Canonical would be thrilled if others followed their pied piper. [16:46] let the raving begin [16:47] I would totally love augmented reality [16:49] snap-l, instead of working w/ pied pipers that might exist already? [16:59] jjesse: Part of developer hubris is that you are the best pied piper out there. :) [18:10] <_stink_> mmm pie. [18:11] ala-mode! [18:13] pie? PIE?! where?! [18:16] * waldo323 gives greg-g some pi [18:19] how much of it? [18:20] as many significant digits as you can handle [18:23] ALL OF THEM! [18:24] (the only request you can't comply with) [18:25] sure he can. it's just gonna take a while [18:25] like, the rest of your life [18:26] nope, it would be even longer than that [18:26] though, I guess, that's all i can handle.... [18:27] well that's your fault [18:28] 634354 [18:29] so, rick_h , you've been doing this every now and then, sending 6 digit numbers to the channel, are you messing up with your LP Bug number pasting? [18:29] greg-g: he covered it earlier ;) [18:29] oh [18:29] dangit [18:29] where? [18:29] so I've realized I end up placing my finger on the side of my laptop sometimes [18:30] 9:35am MI time [18:30] greg-g: have this yubikey usb thing that you touch for 2-factor auth for work [18:30] ahhh [18:30] so I keep bumping it and it dumps those numbers out as if I'm trying to log into something [18:30] tried all three usb ports on the laptop, but keep bumping it on accident [18:30] i'm collecting them to hack his system [18:30] brousch: good call [18:30] yea, brousch wants to take over all my bugs [18:31] I tried to just give them to him, but he'd prefer I get credit when he hacks my account and fixes them all [18:31] i'll just mark them all as WON'T FIX [18:32] works for me [21:59] 559014 [22:00] :) [22:01] bah, see I pick up the laptop and bump it. oh well [22:40] for you task management geeks out there (*cough* snap-l *cough*): http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/10/26.html [22:40] going old school? 2007? [22:40] taskwarrior is going to implement tools so you can do that stuff [22:40] rick_h: it was just the url that the lead dev of taskwarrior sent in channel [22:41] ah, gotcha === greg_g is now known as greg-g [23:54] anyone have a Thinkpad x200s compat battery they want to sell me that isn't crap? [23:54] this one (9 cell) is getting like 2 hours :( [23:55] sorry, <3 my 9cell x200 battery [23:55] watch the outlet, that's where I get mine and usually around $40 vs the super $$ [23:55] nothing on there currently for xseries [23:55] yeah, from Lenovo its like $150 [23:56] yea, I've gotten my last 3 spare batteries by watching the outlet nad MUCH cheaper [23:56] and they've all been good [23:56] * greg-g nods [23:56] well, don't get the next one, leave it for me! ;) [23:57] heh [23:58] whoa, neat, the app tabs in Fx 13 scale smaller as needed