/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/05/#juju.txt

hazmatSpamapS, i thought it was going to have the default config written out with ssl check enabled00:33
SpamapShazmat: the branch I had proposed does that00:34
hazmatSpamapS, not the version in reitveld afaics00:35
hazmathttps://codereview.appspot.com/5934054/00:35
hazmatSpamapS, besides that LGTM00:36
SpamapShazmat: https://codereview.appspot.com/5934054/patch/11001/1200300:40
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r521 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com00:42
_mup_Fix setup of local api factory used by testing00:42
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r522 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com00:49
_mup_Remove usage of invoker attr in favor of using the factory to get it00:49
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r523 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com00:51
_mup_Code rearrangement00:51
_mup_juju/relation-ids-command r511 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com00:56
_mup_relation-ids command without a relation name to qualify returns all relation ids00:56
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r524 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com00:58
_mup_Merged upstream & resolved conflict due to moving relation-ids command tests to upstream00:58
_mup_juju/relation-hook-context r526 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com00:59
_mup_Merged trunk for this already merged branch to workaround lbox prereq issue00:59
_mup_juju/relation-ids-command r512 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com01:11
_mup_Change test setup to verify that relation-ids on a relation name does in fact only return those relation ids01:11
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r525 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com01:11
_mup_Merged upstream01:11
_mup_juju/relation-ids-command r513 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com03:20
_mup_Test relation ident enumeration from nonrelational hook context and departed relation hook context03:20
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r526 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com03:35
_mup_Merged upstream03:35
lynxmanif someone can promote charm attached to bug #956259 looks alright :)06:45
_mup_Bug #956259: Charm needed: znc  <new-charm> <Juju Charms Collection:Fix Committed by lynxman> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/956259 >06:45
SpamapSlynxman: you're not in ~charmers ?06:47
lynxmanSpamapS: yeah, so how can I promote it myself? :)06:47
SpamapSlynxman: bzr push lp:~charmers/charms/oneiric/znc/trunk && charm promulgate06:48
lynxmanSpamapS: cool, thanks06:48
=== almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan
res0nat0r/loa/clear07:27
res0nat0roops07:27
shazznerok07:47
shazznerI (poorly) rewrote the parse_upstream php file into python07:47
SpamapSshazzner: eh?07:48
imbrandonheh why ? j/k07:48
shazznerhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/915662/07:48
shazznerwell07:48
shazznermostly to do with how it's broken in precise07:48
imbrandon:)07:48
SpamapSoh the https07:48
shazznerya07:48
SpamapSwget's not broken.. just wget the damn thing ;)07:48
imbrandoni'm actully converting SpamapS's python for the multi nginx stuff to php now07:49
shazznerI wish!07:49
shazznerhaha07:49
SpamapSimbrandon: hater07:49
imbrandonstarted it like 15 min ago07:49
imbrandonlol07:49
imbrandonSpamapS: hehe , well i wanted it all to match07:49
imbrandone.g. all the othersgonna be php07:49
SpamapSimbrandon: I'd like for that to all be generic as soon as subordinates land07:50
imbrandonnothing against your implmentation though07:50
SpamapSimbrandon: shouldn't need to all be one language07:50
imbrandonno, it dont, its a prefrence thing07:50
SpamapSimbrandon: but I'm actually glad to see non-python/bash charm hooks :)07:50
imbrandonjust being anal07:50
imbrandon:)07:50
SpamapSI always figured ruby would be more prevalent.. not .. php07:51
imbrandoni'm trying to figure out the best way to do the most in php thought, since its not installed by default i have to bash bootstrap it minimum07:51
imbrandoni'm sure rubys and gems and diimonds and poneies will be next :)07:51
SpamapSimbrandon: I want to create a more declarative way to pull in packages at some point to handle this case07:51
imbrandonyea thats would be cool07:52
shazznerI just want to say xml handling is so much easier than python07:52
shazzner*in php I mean07:52
SpamapSimbrandon: I'd like for there to be a way to write a charm that is 99% just lists of packages/files to install.07:52
imbrandoni duno about 99% then its just a deb :)07:52
imbrandondeb + rules file thats not debuild'd07:53
SpamapSshazzner: seems like you're iterating when you could have done xpath07:53
imbrandonSpamapS: but i agree, more than now would be nice07:53
shazznerSpamapS: I have no doubt I did it poorly :p07:53
SpamapSimbrandon: the 1% would be the bits that run on hook changes.07:53
imbrandonahh ok07:54
imbrandonthen yea i;'m right with ya07:54
SpamapSso maybe 90%07:54
shazznerif you have suggestions or changes, please go for it07:54
SpamapSLike, let me write the code only when code is warranted.07:54
imbrandonright07:54
imbrandonyea i just equated that in my head as more, but yea, i fully agree then07:54
imbrandonbut yea , its nothing against your implmentation, infact its quite simple and easy to understand even for a python newb but i'm just being picky07:55
imbrandonis all :)07:55
SpamapSThe reason I've gravitated to python away from other languages has been that the code is usually easy to understand (except when its twisted based ;)07:56
imbrandonbtw i got importing from github going i think, its not imported yet but its in the queue for RSN07:57
imbrandonyea i've just stayed away from it since the rules seem like they were written by rms07:57
imbrandonheh and really i havent stayed away just try not to use it when not nessesary07:58
imbrandonlol07:58
* SpamapS will like github when celery tastes like candy07:58
imbrandonhahaah07:58
shazznerhehe07:58
imbrandonbtw they did a huge upgrade to the issue tracker this week07:58
SpamapSurllib2.URLError: <urlopen error [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer>07:58
imbrandonmight peek at it again07:58
SpamapSshazzner: thats what I get07:58
shazznerhuh07:59
imbrandonmilestones and proraties and stuff07:59
shazznerhaha it seems like the same issue php had08:00
* imbrandon slides off to find some nicoteine and finish bootstrapping drupal 8 into a working state08:00
imbrandonsemi afk08:00
imbrandonbtw morning fellas 0/ :)08:01
SpamapSimbrandon: 'bout to be sleep for me08:01
imbrandonahh08:01
shazznerSpamapS: are you behind a proxy perhaps?08:01
SpamapSshazzner: definitely not08:02
shazznersame here, it's like 3am08:02
shazznererr huh08:02
* imbrandon just woke up, i keep odd hours for most, its 3am here too08:02
SpamapSshazzner: have you tried with openssl s_client08:02
SpamapSI think their servers may just suck08:02
shazznerprobably08:03
SpamapSprobably out of entropy08:03
imbrandonwhere ya grabbin it from ?08:03
SpamapSopenssl s_client -host sourceforge.net -port 44308:03
SpamapSstalls out08:03
shazznerI ran that script several times testing it though, all consistant08:03
imbrandonnice08:03
shazznerhrm08:03
SpamapStelnet to that host/port also stalls08:03
SpamapSshazzner: sure, you used up all their entropy ;)08:04
shazznerdamnit! sorry guys08:04
imbrandonuse lp to import  the sf repo and then grab from there ;)08:04
SpamapSactually08:04
SpamapSthis is likely an openssl issue08:04
SpamapSon a centos 6 box, no issue, connects right up08:04
imbrandoni'll try from osx one sec08:04
imbrandonyea right up here08:05
shazzneryeah that openssl line stalls for me too08:05
imbrandonhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/915676/08:05
SpamapS    Protocol  : TLSv108:05
shazznerimbrandon: same result08:05
shazzneractually wait, mines a little different08:06
imbrandonmines from osx so it might be a bit diffrent08:07
shazznerah08:07
SpamapSwtf08:07
imbrandonhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/915676/08:07
SpamapSI think I accidentally /quit there or something08:07
bkerensaSpamapS: you lost terminal08:07
bkerensa:D08:07
imbrandonheh says lost term08:07
imbrandon03:06 -!- SpamapS [~clint@ubuntu/member/spamaps] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]08:07
bkerensaSpamapS: How is contest coming along ? :P08:07
shazznerhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/915679/08:08
SpamapSYeah must have torched byobu accidentally08:08
SpamapSbkerensa: wrapping up judging this week :)08:09
bkerensa:P08:09
shazznerI use guake and have move between tabs be ctrl-left & right and close tabs ctrl-down08:09
SpamapSRC4-SHA08:09
SpamapSI wonder if Ubuntu's openssl has that disabled08:09
shazznerI've closed my irc session many times :/08:09
shazznerthe channel topic should probably change too :p08:10
* imbrandon gave up OPer when lilo passed, no haxoring the topic from me08:12
SpamapSaha08:12
SpamapSRC4 is in fact disabled08:12
imbrandonnice08:12
SpamapSif you explicitly request it08:12
SpamapSit works08:12
SpamapS*thank you ubuntu security team for making sure we are safe*08:12
SpamapSand sourceforge.. I spit on your RC408:12
imbrandonheh08:12
SpamapSshazzner: so your PHP implementation will probably work fine, if you add some options08:13
shazzneroh yeah?08:14
SpamapShttp://www.php.net/manual/en/context.ssl.php08:14
SpamapSspecifically, 'ciphers'08:15
SpamapSI would set it to AES256-SHA,RC4-SHA08:15
imbrandonif google glass is not a april fools joke i'm so getting some08:16
shazzneryeah those look pretty rad08:17
shazznerSpamapS: I'll take a look at that, thanks!08:17
shazznerI'm off to bed though, have do to taxes tomorrow :(08:18
shazznernight ya'll08:18
=== shazzner is now known as shazzner-away
SpamapSugh yeah I have to wrap my taxes up this week too :-P08:19
SpamapSwhat a lovely thought to go to sleep to08:19
* SpamapS passes out08:19
res0nat0rAny guess why I can't test out and deploy the cassandra charm? I see it in the repo https://code.launchpad.net/~charmers/charms/oneiric/cassandra/trunk-108:27
res0nat0rI'm getting a not found08:27
yolandahi, good morning08:53
yolandai'm having a problem running juju in a local container in precise08:53
yolandaerror: internal error Network is already in use by interface virbr008:54
=== al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away
arashbmyolanda: just re login and it will be solved!09:54
yolandahi, yes, i rebooted and works10:13
yolandahi, another question. In what directory should i put my local.yaml file with config settings? i tried to put it under the precise/ directory of the repo and gives an error11:44
niemeyerGood morning jujuers!13:25
TheMueniemeyer: morning13:36
niemeyerTheMue: Good morning!13:36
yolandahi13:38
hazmatg'morning folks13:38
yolandai have this problem when trying to get content from a private repo:13:38
yolandaW: Failed to fetch https://private-ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-isd-hackers/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-i386/Packages  Proxy CONNECT aborted13:38
yolandai'm using local containers13:38
yolandain my local machine works, but juju local container gives that error13:38
yolandaany clue?13:38
koolhead11yolanda, your running your machine behind a proxy13:39
yolandano, i didn't add any config for that. Locally i can get that repo without problems13:40
yolandabut when i create a juju local machine, it gives that error13:40
hazmatyolanda, juju setups the local containers for an apt cacher ng proxy on the host13:40
yolandahazmat, how can i solve the problem?13:40
hazmatyolanda, you may have to adjust the cacher-ng proxy settings on the host13:40
yolandahazmat, where can i check it?13:41
hazmatyolanda, its in /etc/apt-cacher-ng   its got a web page for its stats at http://localhost:3142/acng-report.html13:43
hazmatyolanda, do you have that ppa enabled on the host?13:44
yolandahazmat, but in my local machine i can access the repo, the problem is on the juju instance13:44
yolandaand in the juju instance i cannot see any apt-cacher-ng directory when i debug13:45
hazmatyolanda, the apt-cacher-ng stuff is on the host not the container13:45
hazmatthe containers are all configured to point to it13:45
hazmatyolanda, so you trying to add a ppa and install a package from it in the container in a charm hook?13:47
hazmatyolanda, the private ppa has some form of auth.. it sounds like that it causing a problem with proxy.. but if thats not adding ppa auth to the container, or config to the proxy i don't know13:48
yolandahazmat, i added the right user and pass to the sources.list13:48
yolandaperhaps is some problem with https?13:49
hazmatyolanda, could you pastebin anything relevant from the cacher-ng logs at /var/log/apt-cacher-ng on the host13:52
yolandalet me check13:53
yolandahazmat, i cannot see any content about this ppa in logs14:11
koolhead11jcastro, hi there14:25
jcastrohi14:26
koolhead11let me know how can i help with juju doc :)14:26
koolhead11i think i did do some changes with the doc and its waiting 4 approaval14:27
yolandahazmat, i'm totally lost with that problem, what else can i check?14:29
jcastrokoolhead11: that was your one before the docs were split out14:31
jcastroeverything is integrated now14:31
hazmatyolanda, you could try turning up the logging in apt-cacher-ng (VeboseLogging=1), the errors should be here. /var/log/apt-cacher-ng/apt-cacher.err14:32
koolhead11jcastro, as in all documenation related stuff is handled?14:33
hazmatyolanda, er.. VerboseLog=114:33
hazmatyolanda, or email the list, i'm not that familiar with apt-cacher-ng.. or if it supports https14:34
hazmatkoolhead11, all the docs are in a separate repo so they don't have to wait in the code merge queue, and there's a larger group that has direct access.14:35
hazmatlp:juju/docs14:35
koolhead11hazmat, yes saw the ail in mailinglist :)14:36
hazmatcool14:36
yolandalet me check14:37
yolandahazmat, i enable log, but still any clue about canonical, i see some logs there, but nothing related to that entry14:41
=== hazmat is now known as kapilt
SpamapSimbrandon: OpenSSL problem identified btw.16:01
marcoceppiSpamapS: what was it?16:02
SpamapSbug #96537116:02
_mup_Bug #965371: HTTPS requests fail on some sites on Ubuntu 12.04 <rls-p-tracking> <OpenSSL:Confirmed> <openssl (Ubuntu):Triaged by cjwatson> <openssl (Ubuntu Precise):Triaged by cjwatson> <openssl (Debian):New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/965371 >16:02
SpamapSfixed in the latest openssl16:02
SpamapShas to do with the size of the initial handshake packet16:02
marcoceppiawesome16:03
SpamapSso, dist-upgrade people!16:03
SpamapSwas fixed on Friday16:03
imbrandon:)16:16
jcastroSpamapS: marcoceppi: m_3_ charm contest, let's finish it </kombat>16:21
marcoceppijcastro: might as well, still waiting on s3cmd16:21
jcastrohttp://pad.ubuntu.com/charmcontest16:22
jcastroSpamapS: ^ those are the entrants afaict who are eligible. Confirm pls.16:26
jcastrooh, gitolite16:28
jcastrohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/90617616:28
_mup_Bug #906176: Gitolite charm <new-charm> <Juju Charms Collection:Fix Committed by shazzner> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/906176 >16:28
jcastrowe need to finish this review16:28
jcastroditto for drupal16:29
jcastrohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+bug/96493616:29
_mup_Bug #964936: Drupal Charm: superchared Drupal charm with nginx,, apc, php-fpm, all setup to scale to the moon and be Best Practices. <new-charm> <Juju Charms Collection:Fix Committed by imbrandon> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/964936 >16:29
SpamapSjcastro: dunno if you saw, but lynxman promulgated znc last night16:32
jcastroyep, on the list16:32
jcastroSpamapS: so I'm thinking, check these two, promulgate or kickback, and then decide?16:33
marcoceppiDrupal hasn't been promulgated yet, still needs a finaly review16:33
jcastrohttp://pad.ubuntu.com/charmcontest <-- am I missing anyone?16:35
jcastroI left out myself, marco, and nick's charms that promulgated or where finished during the period16:35
bkerensajcastro: thanks for the shipment16:37
bkerensa:D16:37
bkerensaI assume you had Cezz send the UPS thingy16:37
jcastroI didn't send you anything yet16:37
bkerensa-.-16:37
bkerensajcastro: no?16:37
jcastronope, I'm not mailing out the prizes until tomorrow16:37
bkerensauhh well I didnt order anything and Merchandise Mania is shipping me something16:37
bkerensaso hmm16:37
bkerensaLOL16:37
bkerensawth16:37
jcastrostealth swag16:38
_mup_juju/relation-id-option r527 committed by jim.baker@canonical.com16:38
_mup_Addressed minors16:38
bkerensajcastro: indeed16:38
bkerensajcastro: lol its from Mozilla :D they use Merchandise Mania too17:01
marcoceppiAre there any instructions or documentation on possibly adding a provider to juju?17:09
zulSpamapS: hold on http://paste.ubuntu.com/916240/17:15
jcastrodude: "authorized-keys: chuck"17:19
jcastroyou can do that?17:20
zuljcastro: according to the docs you can17:20
zulbut that might be the problem17:20
aiureahi17:22
aiureaI have a quick question. Is support for Debian & Redhat in the Juju Roadmap?17:22
bkerensaaiurea: good question.... I think jcastro might be able to answer that17:23
aiureabkerensa: I'm a Debian developer starting a new project and I would love to use juju. And I could contribute afterwards. But I would like to know that support for RedHat/Debian is incoming.17:24
bkerensaaiurea: If for some reason you have to go and dont get a answer before you leave feel free to ping the Cloud mailing list to get a answer17:26
bkerensahttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-cloud17:26
aiureabkerensa: thank you.17:27
marcoceppiaiurea: bkerensa juju mailing list works well too: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju17:31
aiureamarcoceppi: got it.17:31
bkerensamarcoceppi: ok :)17:31
* bkerensa is interest to know the answer to aiurea's question since I hope to talk about juju in the futurew17:32
marcoceppiFrom what I understand, and I might be wrong, juju client should be able to run on any linux system. The charms are all apt-get specific so outside of aptitude they won't deploy. Theoretically you could deploy to Debian images in say ec2 but I don't think anyone has tried. As for Redhat while the client might run I think yum is missing a few vital packages that would be required for redhat images17:33
marcoceppito run17:33
marcoceppiSo it's a giant maybe. I don't know if the dev team has any plans to support other systems and if they do when they would be doing that17:34
zulSpamapS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/916313/17:35
aiureaI see.17:40
=== kapilt is now known as hazmat
SpamapSzul: that means zookeeper failed to start17:43
SpamapSzul: check console log17:43
zulk17:43
* SpamapS puts $5 on "Hash sum mismatch"17:44
zulSpamapS: last line is this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/916321/17:44
SpamapSzul: that means juju failed to install. Look up higher.17:45
zulSpamapS: wha....it tried to fetch from the ec2 archive: http://paste.ubuntu.com/916324/17:46
SpamapSzul: whats 'nov.ec2' ?17:49
SpamapSzul: is that some kind of weird thing that cloud-init is doing because the "region" is nov?17:49
zulSpamapS: im not exactly sure17:49
marcoceppiSpamapS: getting a wall of "[  183.541157] 1 multicall(s) failed: cpu 0" when bootstrapping a t1.micro, is that Amazon's gentle way of saying NO CPU FOR YOU?18:35
SpamapSmarcoceppi: never seen that18:42
SpamapSmarcoceppi: what region?18:42
marcoceppieu-west-118:43
marcoceppiThe last several micros I've tried to boostrap in eu-west-1 and us-east-1 have failed18:43
marcoceppithis is just the first time I've actually checked the logs18:43
SpamapSjava bug.. very sad. ;)18:50
SpamapSjimbaker: did I see relation id support land this morning?18:52
jimbakerSpamapS, yes you did19:34
jimbakerSpamapS, definitely a nice feature - charms can now work with relations from any hook19:35
marcoceppijimbaker: wait, what?19:35
jimbakermarcoceppi, you can list available relation ids using the new relation-ids command19:37
jimbakerthen use -r <relation id> with relation-get|relation-set|relation-list19:37
marcoceppiAh, so you can get, set, and list relation data from any hook now?19:38
jimbakermarcoceppi, correct19:38
marcoceppiepic19:38
SpamapStruly epic19:41
SpamapSyou can ripple an event through the system now19:42
* SpamapS goes to get lunch19:42
avoineawesome19:43
jimbakerSpamapS, yes, this is a very nice aspect of what has landed - generalizing the orchestration19:44
jimbakerwith ultimately just a very simple addition of functionality19:45
bkerensaSpamapS: I think the next charm I am going to write is for openphoto21:05
jcastrowow, I didn't even know that existed21:07
jcastrobkerensa: if you want you can file a wishlist bug on lp under "charms" and link the home page there21:07
jcastroso we have it21:07
bkerensajcastro: I will do... I am joining the openphoto team as a Community Manager21:08
bkerensa:P21:08
bkerensaso it naturally makes sense21:08
jcastro<321:08
SpamapSbkerensa: *sweeeeet*21:12
SpamapSbkerensa: btw, when you're done w/ that charm, I'll definitely +1 you for ~charmers (and I bet somebody else will too)21:13
bkerensaheh21:14
bkerensa:D21:14
lifelessSpamapS: oh hai21:15
_mup_Bug #974650 was filed: relation-ids should default to $JUJU_RELATION, or if not available, raise an error <juju:In Progress> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/974650 >21:15
lifelessSpamapS: maybe you know the answer to my question in #ubuntu-cloud ?21:15
shazzneryay taxes are done! :D22:42
SpamapSshazzner: did you see above, the openssl issue is solved in the latest package in precise?23:05
shazznerSpamaps: no I didn't, let me give it a shot23:06
SpamapSshazzner: something to do with broken BigIP's23:07
shazznerhuh23:07
shazznerdoes that python script work for you now?23:07
shazznerI'm still getting the ssl timeout with the php parse_upstream script23:08
shazznerunless, this is something totally different23:08
SpamapSshazzner: I lost the python script.. (/tmp .. rebooted.. ;)23:11
SpamapSshazzner: but openssl s_client works now23:12
SpamapSshazzner: the error 104 would be different23:12
shazznerhere it is in all it's glory!: http://paste.ubuntu.com/916729/23:12
shazznerso when I call juju-log23:19
shazznerwhere exactly does it log it to?23:19
SpamapSshazzner: the charm.log23:20
SpamapSshazzner: which is visible via 'debug-log'23:20
SpamapSshazzner: or on disk, as /var/lib/juju/units/xxx-#/charm.log23:21
SpamapSshazzner: or if you're using the local provider, data-dir/units/xxx-#/unit.log23:21
shazznerSpamapS: got it, thanks! :)23:21
shazznerhmm ok, so the root of the matter is I added a bin/parse_upstream.py file along with my charm23:23
shazznerwhen I try to call it, it can't seem to find it23:23
shazznerI'm basing this off the phpmyadmin charm, which seems to be correct but it keeps failing there23:23
shazznerwhat would be the absolute path to the charm on the machine?23:24
shazzneroh wait I think I found it23:24
shazznersame path as the charm.log23:24
SpamapSpython /tmp/foo.py23:26
SpamapShttp://sourceforge.net/projects/kusabax/files/Kusaba%20X%200.9.3/Kusaba%20X%200.9.3%20Full/kusabax_0.9.3_full.zip/download|fbd051a3b0c3ddd9d08e56309b4f2e2323:26
SpamapSshazzner: yep, works now23:26
shazzneryay! :)23:26
SpamapSshazzner: don't assume that path23:26
SpamapSshazzner: your charm will always start executing in the root of the charm23:27
shazzneryeah I was noticing that23:27
SpamapSshazzner: $CHARM_DIR will always be set to that dir23:27
shazznerhrm23:27
SpamapSthose are two assumptions you can make23:27
shazznerit fails here: HASHFILE=`bin/parse_upstream.py` with /var/lib/juju/units/kusabax-0/charm/hooks/install: 20: local: not in a function23:28
shazznerit's probably something stupid on my end23:29
SpamapSthats a syntax error23:30
SpamapSlocal is only allowed in functions23:30
shazzneroh23:30
shazznerlike I said, something stupid :p23:30
SpamapSbecause she'll scope for non-functions is always global :-P23:30
shazznergot it23:31
=== Furao_ is now known as Furao

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